'Hope Comes Home': An inside look at the Obama Presidential Center I FULL MS NOW EXCLUSIVE

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Hello Chicago! It's good to be home! [00:00:08] Michelle Norris: The president like no other. Is back where it all began. Opening a new chapter. On the south side of Chicago. His legacy and his dream on display. [00:00:22] Speaker 3: Generosity towards each other. Everybody counts and everybody matters. [00:00:27] Michelle Norris: Her legacy and dream as well. [00:00:30] Speaker 4: It was important for me that kids like me could be right in their neighborhood and see world-class art. [00:00:37] Michelle Norris: Tonight, we hear from the former president and first lady. And give you a tour of the museum and the sparkling new campus. Welcome to Hope Comes Home, inside the Obama Presidential Center. Good evening, I'm Michelle Norris. Welcome to Hope Comes Home, inside the Obama Presidential Center. The campus is now open to the public. It opened on Juneteenth. And almost everything about this center is meant to be different from any other presidential library or monument that's come before it. The Obama's wanted this place to be an inspiration, a resource, an incubator for leadership. They don't just want you to look back at what he did during his eight years in office. They want you to feel some sense of responsibility for what needs to happen next. [00:01:25] Speaker 3: Maybe a way to think about the Presidential Center and what at least we tried to create is some touchstones, some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of, oh, yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We don't have to distrust each other. We don't have to hate each other. We don't have to scapegoat each other. We could actually try to find common ground and work together to do some good. [00:02:03] Michelle Norris: We're going to hear so much more from President Obama tonight as well as former First Lady Michelle Obama. We had a chance to have a good long chat with both of them. And they talked about their vision for this place and much more. And if you're not here in Chicago, well, you might as well be because we have gotten an early look inside this sprawling center. And tonight we're going to give you an inside look at the building, the campus, and the story Barack and Michelle Obama want to tell the nation and the world. If you had asked the young Barack Obama what he wanted to be when he grew up, he might have told you that his dream was to be an architect. That boyhood ambition of his helps to explain why the story of the Obama Presidential Center starts not with a traditional library or a monument or even a dusty box of papers from the archives, but with the walls themselves. What you see here is the main building at the Obama Presidential Center, more than 200 feet tall, built from granite the president handpicked himself. The architects based their design of the building on the image of four hands joined together. They wanted the building to look as if these hands are holding a lantern or a light of some kind, like a giant beacon here on Chicago's south side. And there, as you can see in the top corner, curving around the edge of the building, is the text of the speech President Obama delivered on the 50th anniversary of the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma. [00:03:32] Speaker 5: You are America. Unconstrained by habit and convention. Unencumbered by what is, because you're ready to seize what ought to be. [00:03:44] Michelle Norris: For modern day presidents, building a library is yet another civic duty once they leave office. Every president since Herbert Hoover has built a presidential library. They are monuments to the men who serve their country and a kind of glorified warehouse to store all the papers and documents from their time in office. As Obama advisor Marty Nesbitt discovered, they can end up being rather lonely places. [00:04:10] Speaker 6: Every presidential center I went to, the archives were empty. There was nobody there. It was idle space. When we looked at the history of presidential libraries, we found that sort of they open with a lot of fanfare and interest. And then over time, as sort of history progresses, time progresses, they become less and less relevant. [00:04:33] Michelle Norris: President Obama decided to break with tradition to preserve his papers inside a fully digital library in lieu of keeping all those files inside a physical building. Instead, he tried to create a place where people, everyday people, not just scholars, would gladly visit over generations. That was the driving mission and the catalyzing challenge for what ultimately became not the Obama Presidential Library, but the Obama Presidential Center. That distinction is important. [00:05:06] Speaker 7: The Obama Presidential Center is so much more than just a library. I think because they chose Chicago, the south side of Chicago, where it's really home for them, they wanted it to be a gift. And if it had just been a museum, it wouldn't be the gift that it is today. [00:05:23] Michelle Norris: The goal was to create a campus that would remain relevant over decades, to make this place feel alive. I've had a chance to watch the project evolve over 10 years from dream to reality. The Obama Foundation assembled a storytelling committee of historians, scholars, and storytellers to serve as a resource. I was on that committee and got a firsthand look at the thinking behind the exhibits, the architecture, and the commitment to create a campus that served the surrounding community. Today, the Obama Presidential Center is more than a museum or a space for archival study. The $850 million campus has a regulation-sized basketball court, an auditorium and performance space, a recording studio for creators. And since Barack Obama worked as a community organizer in this same neighborhood, it's not surprising to see that the center also has classrooms and meeting spaces for workshops and organizing. There's a teaching kitchen and a fruit and vegetable garden, a flourishing beehive that's part of a sustainable ecosystem. Barbecue grills dot the walking paths. There's also a brand new branch of the Chicago Public Library and a children's playground. That equipment has been stress tested by the President himself. The Obamas want this place to be a community hub, a place for kids to frolic in a fountain when it's hot. The water terrace is named for his mom, Stanley Ann Dunham, or come in from the Chicago cold to check out a book or just hang out in a comfortable chair under the artwork in the lobby. A place where families could picnic or where tourists might enjoy a meal in the restaurant. Almost every space on this campus is open to the public, much of it free of charge. It is designed to be a magnet for people to meet and gather and organize. [00:07:19] Speaker 6: This is the humility of Barack and Michelle Obama. It's not about them, it's about their place in this arc of American history and about how do we empower everybody else in our communities, in our world, to continue that journey to make the world a better place. [00:07:36] Michelle Norris: The permanent exhibit in the museum could have opened with memorabilia from Barack Obama's childhood or his early life in politics or a list of his accomplishments in office. Instead, it begins with our nation's founding contradictions. The Declaration of Independence spoke of universal equality in a country that also institutionalized slavery. Our nation was rooted in the right to vote, but not for all. Unalienable rights, but not for all. Progress for some, alongside poverty for many. So instead of launching immediately into the timeline of Barack Obama's life, you see the historic preamble to his story. Behind glass is a ballot from 1876, when the first black man was elected to the Illinois General Assembly. An early draft of the Emancipation Proclamation. Buttons from the civil rights movement. Picket signs from labor strikes. The presidential pen used to sign the Voting Rights Act. Artifacts belonging to the people who fought these fights before Barack Obama ever entered politics. The suffragists and the civil rights workers and the labor organizers who put everything on the line to shove our country forward and create the possibility for a black man to be elected president of the United States. The first words you see on the way into the exhibit space remind visitors that America has always been a work in progress. This museum surrounds visitors with that idea. The push and pull of progress. And the evidence that America has always been arguing with itself. About who belongs, who gets to decide, who counts, and who is forced to the margins. [00:09:21] Speaker 8: Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. [00:09:27] Michelle Norris: The very existence of this center, celebrating America's first black president, becomes part of that argument. An assertion that leadership rooted in hope and pluralism can exist in America. Are you fired up? [00:09:40] Speaker 1: Let go! [00:09:41] Michelle Norris: The center opens its doors at a time of deep anxiety and division. A moment when Americans are worried about the values they hold dear and the health of American democracy. Worried for good reason. This place is designed to be a reminder from the moment you step in the door that an imperfect, contradictory, and sometimes confounding system can birth a multiracial democracy and make it stronger over time. [00:10:08] Speaker 4: What will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors. [00:10:15] Michelle Norris: America will see itself. Coming into the space can be heavy. It's powerful. But many of the visitors have told us that it also feels like an oasis. One magazine writer said the exhibits feel like a pep talk from a more hopeful era. And while presidential libraries are not usually associated with merriment, there are elements of joy throughout the center. You will hear the music of the Obama era at the White House. Aretha and Prince and Bruce Springsteen and Stevie Wonder. If you wonder, you'll see art everywhere. Stained glass and sculpture and floor to ceiling installations. The President and Mrs. Obama commissioned 28 different pieces of original art placed all around the campus. And then, of course, you can take a trip down memory lane through two presidential terms. Copies of big speeches the President marked up by hand. A binder full of bugs and critters named after Barack Obama. The marshmallow air cannon from the White House science fair. Good luck charms the President carried around in his pocket. The momentous day in June of 2015 when the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage. And then later that same day, the President sang Amazing Grace at a funeral for a victim of the Charleston church shooting. [00:11:37] Speaker 3: Amazing Grace. [00:11:45] Michelle Norris: The place shows visitors the details, big and small, of the Obama White House and the Obama story. [00:11:50] Speaker 3: By the way, my suitcases were not on top of the car. [00:11:53] Michelle Norris: And not everything here is behind glass. [00:11:58] Speaker 3: I like this. It's tactile. [00:12:01] Michelle Norris: Here you can lay your own palm on top of a clay imprint of the President's hand when he was just a young boy. Or touch samples of the fabric of Mrs. Obama's dresses and gowns. Or feel the difference in Sonny and Beau's black and white fur as you rub your hand across a display panel that describes their life in the White House. The museum tries to meet you where you are and then draw you in. [00:12:27] Speaker 9: We wanted to mimic the walk that the President took each day that he was in residence from the residence to the Oval Office. And so he had walked past the Rose Garden along the colonnade. We hear the birdsong, the rustling of leaves, the sounds of people going about their work to maintain this beautiful space. Someone actually recorded that in that space? We did. Yes. We're hearing sound captured from the White House. [00:12:55] Michelle Norris: The official text does not say anything about this, but visitors clearly understand that a walk through the Rose Garden from the Obama years is a stark contrast to that same space today, honoring a paradise that has since been paved. Beyond the trinkets and birdsong, you'll also find artifacts from the big moments, too. The major inflection points of President Obama's eight years in office. The passing of the Affordable Care Act. The repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The financial crisis. The raid that captured Osama Bin Laden. [00:13:29] Speaker 10: Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama Bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda. [00:13:39] Michelle Norris: A memory shared by White House photographer Pete Souza and longtime advisor Valerie Jarrett shared, but from very different vantage points. [00:13:49] Speaker 11: I was like jammed in this corner. This is Brigadier General Brad Webb. He was at the head of the table, and when President Obama walked in, General, he stood up to give up the chair. And President Obama said, no, you stay right where you are. You're doing something. I'm just going to pull up a chair next to you, which is why he's sitting where he is. My butt was literally against a laser printer. So you can imagine the anxiety that they must have been feeling that I felt because of watching their faces. I felt that anxiety. And you talk to any of the men and women that were in that room, when they've done interviews, they use the word anxiety. They all use it. [00:14:37] Michelle Norris: It was palpable. [00:14:38] Speaker 7: But if it had gone wrong, it could have been devastating for the president's political career. From the time he took office, he said to President Bush, I will not stop until I find him. And in fact, a story I have not told before. That afternoon, his chief of staff called me, and he said, I need to get a hold of President Bush. Can you get a hold of him? I said, sure. So I called President Bush's chief of staff, and I said, President Obama would like to talk to President Bush. And the chief of staff said, why? I said, I can't tell you, but I promise you he'll want to take this phone call. He wanted to tell President Bush first. [00:15:10] Michelle Norris: This place is filled with discoveries like that, with history that surprises you or calls you to action yourself. Alongside the successes of the Obama presidency, you will also see the moments where it fell short. The designers of the museum want you to see the unfinished business, as the president calls it, the work that remains. And so, it is perhaps fitting that the end of the museum experience is up here in the clouds, the Sky Room. No more exhibits and artifacts, no buzzy videos to watch or posters to read. Up here, it's just you and your ideas, as you look out through President Obama's own words from Selma with an expansive view of the South Side. It's a place designed for people to ask themselves, "Now, what can I do?" Tonight, we will roam around the museum and the grounds with the people who built it. And we will hear directly from the former president and Mrs. Obama, now that their center, more than a decade in the making, is open to the world. We have so much more to get to tonight, and we're so glad to have you with us for this special event, "Hope Comes Home," inside the Obama Presidential Center. We'll be right back. I am so glad that we have a chance to talk to you about this. Ten years in the making? Yeah. Really, almost 12 now, right? [00:16:38] Speaker 3: You start thinking about this in your last year in office. [00:16:42] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. [00:16:43] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. So that would be 2016. So that was 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. When you're starting to conceive of it. And that's when you start thinking about selecting the site and the architects and so forth. [00:16:57] Michelle Norris: How excited were you when you started to think about it? Was it—some people have said it's almost, "Oh, now I've got to do this." It's almost like a burden. Did it feel like an opportunity for you? [00:17:06] Speaker 3: It didn't feel like a burden, but it felt like a distraction because at the time you're still working on presidential stuff. Mm-hmm. So you delegate a bunch of decisions and say, "I'll worry about that later." But look, it's been a long journey. You had COVID in between, which obviously threw off schedules and budgets in all kinds of ways. You know, we literally started construction and then suddenly COVID hits. Mm-hmm. You know, that changed things a lot. We're not alone in that. And the great thing about it, though, was I think there was a consistency of vision on what we were trying to accomplish with the center. That didn't vary much. Michelle and I had a very clear sense that we wanted this to be a place that would attract visitors from around the world, that would record what happened during my presidency, but that more than anything was a vital, alive, dynamic place for the south side of Chicago and the city of Chicago, for kids in the neighborhood, that it was going to be used. And that, I think, more than anything, shaped how we thought about what this thing would end up being. The location, in part, was determined by the fact that this is the epicenter of my life in Chicago. Mm-hmm. Right? Within a four or five-mile radius of that site, I first came to Chicago. I got my first apartment there. I met my wife there. My children were born there. My wife grew up there. We were—our wedding reception was there. I made my announcement for my first presidential—for my first political campaign there. Mm-hmm. I taught law school there. So, you know, that was part of what made that site so attractive to us. But, as you say, one of the things that I learned when I moved to Chicago, and one of the things that Michelle had firsthand experience with growing up in Chicago, was even though the south side of Chicago runs on the lakefront just like the north side of Chicago does, for a whole bunch of historical reasons, the parks, the open spaces, the public facilities in those communities were under-invested in relative to other neighborhoods in Chicago. And so, for a long time, I would drive through Lincoln Park in the north side of Chicago, and you'd look around, and there are people playing volleyball, and there are tennis courts, and there are kiosks, and there's programming, and museums, and then Jackson Park, which was just as beautiful, was empty. Yeah. And that sent a message. And when I was organizing and when I was serving as a state legislator, I was always shocked when you'd hear stories from kids who would say, "Well, I've actually never gone to the lakefront." [00:21:02] Michelle Norris: Even though they lived on the south side? It was right there. [00:21:05] Speaker 3: They lived in Englewood, but it's just, it felt foreign to them. [00:21:09] Michelle Norris: More to come. Stay with us. [00:21:16] Speaker 10: Welcome, His Majesty, King Abdullah, to the White House. [00:21:21] Speaker 12: Dem Fall der Mauer, das werden wir dem Amerikanischen Volk nie vergessen. [00:21:27] Speaker 10: I think what she said was good. [00:21:30] Michelle Norris: So this is early. This is May 8th, 2009. The president had only been there, had only been in office. A few months. [00:21:37] Speaker 11: A few months. A few months. And this little kid comes in with his dad and says, "My friends tell me my haircut is just like yours." [00:21:48] Michelle Norris: Oh, my goodness. He's five years old. [00:21:50] Speaker 11: And with that, Barack Obama bends over and says, "Go ahead and touch it." And there's the exact moment that Jacob's touching his head. [00:21:58] Michelle Norris: This picture says so much. This is America's first black president. Little black boy. African-American boy. This is in the Oval Office, yes? [00:22:06] Speaker 11: This is in the Oval Office. And I think it really resonated with young kids of color. Here's this five-year-old African-American kid touching the head of the President of the United States that looks like him. [00:22:30] Michelle Norris: The Oval Office is almost synonymous with the American presidency. So, in keeping with tradition, the Obama Presidential Center has an exact replica of the Oval Office, just as it was during President Obama's time in the White House. It's already one of the most popular exhibits in the museum. Visitors curl in long lines around the outside wall for their chance to sit behind the resolute desk, their chance to peek at the remarkable treasures in this space. The lamps, the curtains, the wallpaper, the trinkets on the shelves. Every detail painstakingly recreated to look just like the original. Every detail except one. A detail everyone who's ever spent time in the real Oval Office will make sure you know. Do we think these are real apples? I do not. He actually ate the apples also. [00:23:21] Speaker 11: Yes, we all did. [00:23:22] Speaker 7: Everybody came in and took apples, particularly kids. Don't try to eat those. Those are real. No, I figured that those aren't real apples. [00:23:27] Michelle Norris: Those are a replica. What do you want people to take from this space? Is there some small... [00:23:31] Speaker 13: Not an apple, because they're not real anymore. Okay, they're not real. [00:23:34] Michelle Norris: That was Michael Smith. He's the interior designer who was chosen by President Obama in 2009 for the makeover of the real Oval Office. It was a case where Mr. Smith goes to Washington and then to Chicago to make sure the replica here is just right. Michael Smith is a close personal friend of the former president. Smith understands how the president thinks and how he works. And on our personal tour, he explained how they work together on every detail inside this room, including the apples. Well, here we are. Yes. In the Oval Office. Yes. Almost exactly as it was during those eight years. [00:24:14] Speaker 13: I mean, except for the view, it's pretty, pretty accurate. I always have, I have to tell you, I always start to tear a little bit. When you're walking, you still do? So weird. Still. Because it's so representational, you know, it reminds of eight years. And you were integral in creating this room. [00:24:29] Michelle Norris: Now, it's interesting though, you didn't change the Oval Office right away. Right. Because if we, you know, let's go back on the Wayback Machine. Right. We remember that President Obama inherited a financial crisis. [00:24:41] Speaker 13: Relatively intense financial crisis. Yes. [00:24:44] Michelle Norris: And so a decision was made. Yes. That you were going to leave the Oval as it was. Yes. As he inherited it. Because? [00:24:51] Speaker 13: Well, it was, it was just people were suffering. There was too much instability and, you know, he being very moral and concerned would never, you know, was, it just wasn't the right time. It wasn't the right time. So I think, you know, it took, it took, it took a long time. It gave me a chance to plan. And I think things like this carpet we're standing on, you know, is, is text, right? My saying was text. This is a president who loves text. I think text is so important to him. So to give him quotes that meant something to him, which is the basis of his carpet, was something much more interesting than evasive flowers or cherubs or, you know, this is, this is sort of fitted to him. The shelves are crazy with, with the detail. So one thing that's really interesting is this obsession with trying to find the detail, the thing that had meaning. When he called me, there were plates. They're Chinese. This, these bookcases for Reagan, Bush had held a series of Chinese experts' plates that had the presidential seal on them. It was just not his thing. So he called me and he said, I really don't like plates. I don't want plates. What, you know, what can we have? I don't want dishes. I think is what he said. So I called the Smithsonian and I said, what do you have in the way of workable models of patents? And they had like incredible, the cotton gin. This is a telegraph model. So that's what this is. It's a working model. I mean, this is a recreation of that working model. [00:26:05] Michelle Norris: Samuel L.B. Morse. Working telegraph. [00:26:08] Speaker 13: Samuel Morse. Right. And my whole thing with these was like, look, these, these are pieces of American ingenuity, American exceptionalism. They were beautiful sculptural and they were so Barack Obama. Right. So he would be curious and he loved it. So the Smithsonian. Again, words. Words and an idea and a crystallization, a three dimensional model of American exceptionalism and invention, literally invention. [00:26:40] Michelle Norris: When you were creating it for the first time, how do you create a room that is warm and inviting, but also has a sense of let's get down to work? [00:26:53] Speaker 13: My agenda was not to make it more propagandistic. I felt like you walk in, the room already has you. You know, you can't, you can't feel like it's not an impressive and sort of dramatic space because of the volume, because of the light, because of all that. So I really wanted people to be comfortable. I got some stuff to do. That was what I called and kind of got from, from, from, from President Obama was, he just wanted people, he just wanted to get down to it, but he wanted people to, you know, come at their, at their best and come and, and, and, and be disarmed in a way by him. [00:27:30] Michelle Norris: Could you make the sofas too comfortable? [00:27:32] Speaker 13: You could have, and I didn't. [00:27:33] Michelle Norris: Because the idea is that you don't spend a lot of time. Correct. It's a very special thing to be invited into this space. [00:27:37] Speaker 13: Well, let me, let me tell you something really interesting about this. One, there are three sofas in the White House, the same, because they're constantly being touched up because people, A, wipe sweat because they're nervous, their palms. So they touch the sofa. So sometimes it has to be touched up. [00:27:52] Speaker 12: So there's always one that is rotated out for cleaning? [00:27:55] Speaker 13: But that's not the thing that really is the most important. The most important thing is that men who come, women probably too, but definitely men, polish their shoes. So their shoes are newly polished and they're in their, in their sort of anxiety, they pull their feet up and rub the shoe polish on the back of the sofas. So the sofas have to leave all the time to take black shoe polish or brown shoe polish out. Ooh. But think about it. No matter who you are, no matter who, where you come from, to walk into this room, it's that feeling, that, that sort of sense of awe about being in this room. [00:28:30] Michelle Norris: Many other presidents have flowers or artifacts on their desk. Right. And they've got apples. [00:28:36] Speaker 13: You had something to do with that. I had something to do with it. The florists of the White House called me and they said, what kind of flowers does President Obama want on his desk? Very simple, but somewhat impactful question. So I said, I'm going to have to call you back. And I thought about it and I thought about it and I thought about Johnny Appleseed, America, all these things. And I said, listen, I'm, I called him. I said, he's not such a flower guy, but I said, I have a shaker bowl. I'm sending it to you. And what I want you to do is fill it with, with, with apples every day, because apples are America. They're no nonsense. They're healthy. They're, you know, it's just, it's such an American idea more in a sense than the formality and lack of hospitality in a way of flowers. So what happened, which I had no idea is they would lose 20, 30 apples a day. Someone would take them as a keepsake. He would start to eat them. He still eats a couple of apples a day, which started as a result of that. Staff members would come in and eat them. Children would take them and eat them. So it had a life about it, a vitality about it, which was kind of amazing. [00:29:38] Michelle Norris: Unlike the actual overall office, thousands of people will come through this space. Yes. Little kids can come. [00:29:43] Speaker 13: Little kids can sit on the desk. Anyone can come. I don't try to, like Caroline Kennedy, go through, you know, underneath the desk. Oh, yeah. Have you ever sat on the desk? John's on the desk? You know, I never have. I never have. [00:29:53] Michelle Norris: This is your chance. [00:29:54] Speaker 13: Yeah, I'm good. [00:29:55] Michelle Norris: Okay. [00:29:56] Speaker 13: You don't want to sit there? No, it's his, I mean, it's, it's Barack Obama's. It's President Obama's desk. I don't want to. [00:30:01] Michelle Norris: I know. He's sharing it with the public. Lots of people have a chance to sit there. [00:30:04] Speaker 13: But I think they still know it's President Obama's desk. Yeah. And that's the thing I want them to take from it. [00:30:12] Speaker 3: Got all the patents that we had in there. And I know the couches are the same because Michael Smith knew where to get the fabric. Yeah. They did a good job. Looks, looks like it's supposed to. [00:30:25] Michelle Norris: The first thing you may notice about this piece of paper is how tidy and neat the handwriting is. Around 2015, President Obama reached for his yellow legal pad to sketch out his to-do list, his policy roadmap for the remaining two years of his presidency. The header up top underlined in ink says "domestic agenda." He ticks through the obvious stuff. Negotiate the budget. Take care of open enrollment for the Affordable Care Act, known as the ACA. Finish implementing the Dodd-Frank Act, the landmark Wall Street reform bill. And then there are the more ambitious goals. Criminal justice reform. Close the gun show loophole. Voting rights legislation. Looking back at it now, that list is stunning in its ambition. For all he got done over eight years in office, President Obama did not get as far as he wanted on criminal justice reform or gun safety. He did not get to sign new voting rights legislation. His list on its face might seem like a counterintuitive choice to be displayed in a presidential museum. A big, yellow, neatly scrawled reminder to the country of all the ways his administration came up short. [00:31:45] Speaker 10: For all the very real progress America has made over the past seven years, we still have some unfinished business. [00:31:51] Michelle Norris: But for President Obama, that reminder is intentional. The unfinished business of his administration is part of the story that he wanted to tell. Displaying the list of priorities is a deliberate way of reminding Americans that governing is difficult. That friction is the price we pay for pushing toward change. And that progress is now up to the American people. They have inherited what President Obama likes to call the work that remains. At a time when this country is wrestling with deep questions about citizenship, democracy, and America's place in the world. When you and the First Lady started thinking about this, you had no idea, you know, what would be going on in America. You have to do a little bit of sort of crystal ball thinking as you're putting this together. How did you make sure that as you were thinking about the design and the exhibits and the message that you were able to meet the moment? [00:32:50] Speaker 3: You know, I don't know that we were trying to prognosticate and say, all right, well, here's where things are going to be. And so we want to make sure we do this or that. The words that are wrapped around the top of the. [00:33:05] Michelle Norris: The speech from Selma, the anniversary. [00:33:08] Speaker 3: Is the anniversary of the Selma speech. I've often said that may not be my very best speech, but it is most representative of what I believe. It captures my politics as well as anything. And it's been pretty consistent. This belief in an American story that begins with these amazing words, this declaration that we are created equal. And endowed with certain inalienable rights and. But it was imperfect. And then we struggle to make that ideal real. And that has always stood in opposition with a different idea of America that is based on caste and privilege and excluding people and dominating people. And those two contrasting stories about America, a lot of my speeches, a lot of my politics has been arguing this is the better story. And so I think it may seem as if right now. The story told at the presidential center is a response to this particular moment. But actually, I think it's a response to what has always been there in America. You know, it's that part of America that that says black people don't belong or that says that women need to be in their place and gay folks need to be in the closet. And poor people need to stop complaining because a handful of people are the ones who are creating the wealth and they deserve to keep it. And we don't need to take care of the vulnerable and we don't need to make public investments in our kids. That story's always been there. And I think sometimes we get confused in thinking that these two stories are completely separate. They're intertwined. They're intertwined. Right. And which is why it's possible for me to be a great admirer of George Washington and also acknowledge he was a slave holder. And that does not negate his greatness. It simply acknowledges that there is a profound, deep flaw in these founding fathers who were also geniuses and gave us these tools and which is true of all of us. Right. It's true of every president. It's that we're this mixed bag. We've got contradictions and embody the country's contradictions. And so I do think that what's striking is right now we've got a president in the White House who seems to have embraced and embodied in a way we haven't seen in a very long time this other story. And maybe that's. [00:36:48] Speaker 12: Does that make your story more important? [00:36:50] Speaker 3: I don't know if it makes it more important, but I am glad that we are planting a flag, that we are hopefully creating a repository, a vessel through which people can be reminded of this better story. Maybe a way to think about the presidential center and what at least we tried to create is some touchstones, some markers, some tools for people to just be reminded of, oh, yeah, this is what our democracy is. This is who we are. We don't have to distrust each other. We don't have to hate each other. We don't have to scapegoat each other. We could actually try to find common ground and work together to do some good. [00:37:48] Michelle Norris: The idea of these two stories is interesting because America has been having an argument with itself. Right. We say one thing in our founding documents. We do something quite different in the way that we construct society. Right. And the argument that you're talking about and the stories that you're talking about, you know, the exclusion of people of color, the exclusion of black people, the exclusion of women, the exclusion, the Chinese Exclusion Act. Yeah. You know, these are things that we know are true to the American story, but they don't always appear in presidential libraries. Yeah. You decided to travel a different path. You decided to tell a different story in a different way so that you lean into that sort of thorny terrain around the founding contradictions. Right. What was the thought process that led you there? Because that is unusual. [00:38:37] Speaker 3: Well, you know, for folks who come to visit, the first thing they'll actually see is, in the museum, is a copy of the Declaration of Independence. And a pretty long description and displays of the struggle to realize that ideal that's embodied in the Declaration. But hopefully what they'll also see, even when the exhibits are about my presidency, that there were people who disagreed with what I did. There was a lot of unfinished business in my presidency. [00:39:21] Speaker 12: And you talk about that. [00:39:22] Speaker 3: Yeah. And that there was something like the Tea Party that emerges during my presidency. And it's useful for people to understand where does that come from. But I do think it's important to ground what happened during my presidency in this broader sweep of American history. And as I said before, this idea that, you know, on the right, and you see this in the Trump administration, this idea that any suggestion or criticism that America was anything other than perfect is unpatriotic. It's a suggestion that you hate your country. It's a suggestion that you hate your country. It's a suggestion that you hate your country. Now, the flip side is, among progressives, sometimes there is this sense of, well, the only true narrative of America is this one of oppression and exclusion. And I reject both those views. I think it's complicated. As I said, I think it's possible to celebrate the founders and appreciate what they did, as well as look objectively and critically at how their values strayed very far from what they professed. I think it's impossible to say that there were populists in rural America and the South and white America that really did believe in equality and justice for white folks and helped to make progress in giving more people opportunity. And not ignore the fact that that was to the exclusion of others. And that's the kind of complexity that I hope people get a little bit of a sense of. [00:41:31] Michelle Norris: You want people to actually marinate in that when they visit your center. [00:41:35] Speaker 3: And the reason is this, because I think when you understand the complexities of America and the contradictions of America, I don't think it makes you love it less. I think it makes you love it more. And I think it also makes you more resilient because then during periods like we're in right now, where for a lot of folks, it's crazy and you feel despair and anger. And that perspective allows you to then say, OK, we've gone through crazy periods like this before. We've gone through mean periods before. It fortifies you to say that, yes, this has been part of the journey that we're on. We've been here before. [00:42:24] Michelle Norris: We can do it again. [00:42:25] Speaker 3: And then there's no reason to suggest that we can't get through this one either. [00:42:29] Michelle Norris: We have another hour of hope comes home inside the Obama Presidential Center. Stay with us. [00:42:36] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. United States. We are all created equal. [00:42:43] Michelle Norris: Welcome back to hope comes home inside the Obama Presidential Center. I'm Michelle Norris. This hour, we will take you further into the brand new Obama Presidential Center. We'll hear more from President Obama. And we will hear from first lady Michelle Obama. We sat down for an interview right here on the south side of Chicago, where she grew up, and where the Obamas are bringing their legacy home. Chicago is a city that gets up in the morning and goes hard all day. Ambition. Creativity. Community. The hope that all that hard work pays off. Oprah Winfrey was born in Mississippi, but she became a media titan in Chicago. Everybody gets a call! Same for Muddy Waters, who then helped Buddy Guy. When Ferris Bueller played hooky, he went to downtown Chicago. [00:43:36] Speaker 13: The question isn't what are we going to do. The question is what aren't we going to do. [00:43:40] Michelle Norris: Film, architecture, science, music. Oh, so much music. We wish you love. Peace. And... Soul Train got its start here. This is a city that gifted the world with Nat King Cole, Sam Cooke, Lou Rawls, and Ramsey Lewis. Let's not forget Jeff Tweedy, Billy Corgan, Eddie Vedder, Herbie Hancock, Quincy Jones. [00:44:07] Speaker 7: Ain't nobody, nobody, nothing better, nothing better. [00:44:11] Michelle Norris: Shaka and Mavis, Kanye and Chance the Rapper. There's not a chance we could name them all. There are just too many. You see, Chicago has always been a cauldron for culture. The blues. The bulls. Here's Jordan! Yes! [00:44:27] Speaker 1: It is all over! [00:44:28] Michelle Norris: The bear and the bears. [00:44:31] Speaker 1: The bears! [00:44:33] Michelle Norris: Writer Sandra Cisneros and Studs Terkel. Dan Aykroyd. And all those stars from the Second City comedy troupe, the ones who made "Saturday Night Live" sparkle and pop. Chicago the city begat Chicago the musical. The Windy City has long been a jewel on the shores of Lake Michigan. A big and shiny magnet for waves of newcomers looking for a better life. Immigrants from Poland, Ireland and Latvia, from Mexico and China. Seekers trading small towns for big city life. Refugees fleeing oppression in the Jim Crow South. In the Great Migration, hundreds of thousands of Black Americans headed north and poured into Chicago's south side, striving for a better future. Thousands including my father and his five brothers. When they first landed in Chicago, they all lived together not far from what is now the Obama Presidential Center in a neighborhood known as Bronzeville. A Black president in their lifetime was not a possibility. My dad used to say that Chicago has a great front yard with the power and prosperity concentrated in those gleaming skyscrapers along the lake downtown. But the backyard, he would say, hmm, needs some work. He loved Chicago, especially Bronzeville, but he understood something essential about the city's south side. Along with the solid institutions and one of America's largest Black middle class populations, the south side has also seen its share of hardship. Poverty, poverty, gang violence, underperforming schools, and under-resourced public housing. The new Presidential Center sits across the street from a striving public school that lost a student this year to gunplay. The Obamas could have located their campus closer to downtown Chicago, a focal point for tourists from all over the world. But they came back to the south side, back to the place where they raised their daughters, where Michelle Obama grew up with the goal of changing the footprint and the fortunes of the south side. With new jobs, new visitors, and yes, new pressures from gentrification. For the Obamas, choosing the south side is an expression of hope that sweet home Chicago can not just handle all of that, but thrive. [00:46:52] Speaker 12: Let me ask you about the neighborhood. It's in the south side, on the south side, on Stoney Island. Right. [00:47:01] Michelle Norris: A street that is too often in the news for sometimes the wrong reasons. Right. What does it mean to place this center in a place that doesn't usually see this kind of investment? [00:47:13] Speaker 3: Well, part of what we want to do is to recognize this is a big investment and it can potentially help anchor and catalyze economic development and opportunities for communities that oftentimes have been left behind. [00:47:36] Michelle Norris: Are you worried about displacement, though? I mean, Airbnb rates are going up, rents are going up. You know, would you have a plan to monitor or mitigate that -- the kinds of things that can happen with gentrification? [00:47:48] Speaker 3: Well, look, this is always going to be -- there's -- nobody's figured out this solution, right, perfectly, which is, hey, these communities are under-invested in and they're poor and there aren't enough businesses and opportunities. And then people make investments in their businesses and opportunities. Hey, wait a minute. Rents are going up and the tax base is going up and Airbnb rates go up. There's no way to make massive investments, bring about, you know, a bunch of tourism dollars and, you know, create greater interest and beautify communities. And not also see some values rise. That's part of the purpose of it. The question is always from our perspective, are we making sure that the people who are already there can get a piece of that rising tide? Can they access those opportunities? Which is why, you know, in terms of employment at the Presidential Center, one of our biggest priorities was making sure that folks were able to not just apply for jobs, but actually get jobs and get trained for jobs. The young people who are going to be the young people who are living in those communities, are they going to be able to get internships and fellowships? And we're exposing them to the work that's being done and what opportunities they have as a consequence. The vendors, you know, the cleaning crews, the contractors, all those folks, we've been very systematic about working with community groups in those communities and saying to them, this is yours, not just ours, and we want you to be a part of this. And I think there will, over time, be the kind of community improvement that is not just bringing in people from the outside, but also lifting up folks from the inside. That's our hope. [00:50:03] Michelle Norris: It is the hope, not just for President Obama, but for Mrs. Obama as well. Of the two of them, she is the one who actually grew up on the south side. We're on the south side of Chicago. We are home. And I want to talk to you about the south side. Please, what do you want to know? And I invite you to correct me if I'm not saying it right, because I lived in Chicago. I have all kinds of relatives who are on the south side, but I never lived on the south side. And there's a particular way of saying it. [00:50:29] Speaker 4: Oh, well, it just depends on the mood. You know, if you really call it out, it's south side, you know. I'm not doing that. But otherwise, that's exactly right. Otherwise, it's the south side. Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:41] Michelle Norris: Well, I want to talk to you about the south side. What do you want to know? Because this incredible complex lands here, right on the south side of Chicago, where you grew up. What does it mean to you? What does it mean to your community to have this level of investment in the place where a young Michelle, LaVonne Robinson grew up? [00:51:05] Speaker 4: Yeah. [00:51:06] Michelle Norris: Did Double Dutch, rode her bike around this area? [00:51:10] Speaker 4: Let me give you a sense of what the community was like when I was growing up. Okay. You know, I was born in the 60s. I think my parents moved from a little further south to 74th and Euclid with my Aunt Robbie when I was one. So my adolescent years were in the 70s. And that was at the beginning of white flight. Mm-hmm. So this community that we moved into was a mixed race community. And it was people of all backgrounds and races. People planted their flowers and, you know, mowed their lawns. My Uncle Terry mowed his lawn where kids played outside and there were block club parties. Mm-hmm. But you could slowly see the slow deterioration of the entire south side. Stores that were closing down. You know, the park programs just kind of went away. You just slowly noticed that the stuff wasn't there anymore. Right. And I think as I got older and started leaving my community, especially when I went to high school, which was a magnet high school on the west side. You went to Whitney Young. Went to Whitney Young. My commute took me more and more through downtown and over west. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we were cultured. You know, we went to museums. We did things like that. But I started noticing that the investments downtown were very different. Mm-hmm. You know, that in order to do or see or experiencing anything beyond what you knew, you had to get on a bus or pay for parking or, you know, take the L. And go to a whole nother community to experience beautiful parks and to really enjoy the lake and to see art and to see culture. It was here, but it wasn't here. [00:53:16] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:53:17] Speaker 4: All right. [00:53:18] Michelle Norris: I think they call that disinvestment. It's disinvestment. So when something like this opens, and there really is nothing else like this. Mm-hmm. And you decide to make an investment in a community like this. [00:53:28] Speaker 4: And $850 million investment. That says something. [00:53:32] Michelle Norris: Yeah. [00:53:33] Speaker 4: That says something. That says you count. Yeah. [00:53:36] Speaker ?: It's supposed to say something. [00:53:37] Michelle Norris: Hope Comes Home: Inside the Obama Presidential Center continues after this. In the new branch of the Chicago Public Library, President Obama has chosen 3,000 of his favorite books to fill up the shelves of his presidential reading room. Books from celebrated authors like Joel Lepore and Haruki Murakami and Isabel Wilkerson. And, of course, one very particular author the president knows quite well. Favorite book in the new library? [00:54:09] Speaker 3: Must be Becoming. Smart answer. [00:54:14] Michelle Norris: What are you talking about? [00:54:16] Speaker 3: Of course. [00:54:17] Michelle Norris: Of course. Very smart answer. Becoming is the memoir written by Michelle Obama about growing up on the south side of Chicago, not far from the presidential center. The former first lady has star power of her own and her emergence on the global stage is also captured in the museum. The display of some of her standout dresses and gowns has already become a favorite with visitors. [00:54:43] Speaker 7: So here is what President Obama refers to as the exhibit everybody wants to see. [00:54:51] Michelle Norris: But let's be clear. Michelle Obama was more than a style icon, more than a best-selling author, more than just Barack Obama's wife. She was an integral part of the Obama White House with her own initiatives, her own fans, and her own critics. Her presence at this museum is not an afterthought. Her memorabilia is not pushed into a corner of the museum somewhere. Her role in the White House is woven throughout the larger story, all over the campus. You will hear her voice and her most famous speeches as you walk through the museum. [00:55:25] Speaker 4: That the American dream endures. [00:55:27] Michelle Norris: You can see her gardening glove from her days planting fruits and vegetables on the White House grounds. A miniature recreation of the time she hosted a Girl Scout camp on the South Lawn. The museum explores her upbringing on the South Side and her accomplishments at Princeton and Harvard. At the restaurant on campus, you can order the red rice that's based on her mother's recipe. The sledding hill? That was the first lady's idea. She insisted so South Side kids today could fulfill one of her girlhood dreams. She had always wished that the pancake flat prairie terrain of Chicago had hills for sledding during those long Chicago winters. Above all, the Obama Presidential Center examines the former first lady as an intellectual partner with an interior life and a legacy worth preserving. Because Michelle Obama is no one's second fiddle. When you got the first look of the portrait of the two of you. It's the first time that you're both in a portrait together. Yeah. And they caught-- Indie Jekka Crosby. The artist. Let's give her her flowers. Mm-hmm. We got to see you see it for the first time. Yeah. You know, the video was released. And your expression was priceless. No. No. [00:56:41] Speaker 4: What was it? [00:56:42] Michelle Norris: I mean, you were just like wide-eyed. Yeah. And partly, you know, because it's a beautiful piece of art, I imagine you were surprised at the size. It is beautiful. [00:56:52] Speaker 4: Was there anything that surprised you? It's not just your story. [00:56:56] Michelle Norris: It's probably going to be a choke point in the museum because you see so many different images. Yeah. [00:57:02] Speaker 4: That's also the artist approach, which is why we-- I love Indie Jekka, the artist. All of her paintings are paintings within paintings, pictures and images within. When you step back and see the bigger image and then slowly get closer and see the power of all the selections of images that-- and where she placed them and why she placed them there. I mean, it's like, where's Waldo for the Obama administration, you know? So, for example, she decided to put in the backdrop a window that has my childhood home. Yes. And in the windows upstairs, it's the image of Barack and my mom sitting on the sofa the night of the election when his name was called. It is a very powerful image where, you know, Mom, she's just got the kind of, oh, my goodness, it happened look. [00:57:56] Michelle Norris: Sitting back on the sofa. [00:57:58] Speaker 4: And she just reaches over to him and says, oh, my baby, he bit off a big thing, you know? And it's that kind of look, but it kind of frames. It's like the center of the home and the center of the portrait. [00:58:11] Michelle Norris: And they're in two different windows upstairs, you see, and their hand is in one of the windows. Mm-hmm. I'm glad you brought her into this conversation. [00:58:21] Speaker 4: Mom. [00:58:22] Michelle Norris: I loved your mom. Yeah. She was a beautiful woman. She was something else. And you brought her along for the journey in a very beautiful way. I remember on the morning of the inauguration and so many people were coming wearing pictures, literally pictures pinned to their coat, bringing someone along, holding pictures in plastic baggies, you know, bringing them there for inauguration day, bringing people along who couldn't make it all the way for the journey. That is what you did with that beautiful skirt that you wore, with a beautiful image of a young Marianne Robinson. [00:59:00] Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. [00:59:01] Michelle Norris: What a way to honor your mom. [00:59:03] Speaker 4: Well, everybody in our lives was touched by mom. It broke Barack down because, you know, he hadn't seen the skirt. [00:59:14] Michelle Norris: You had to cover for him for a while. [00:59:15] Speaker 4: I know, right, right? [00:59:16] Michelle Norris: I mean, you kept talking because you gave him a moment. [00:59:19] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. So when I walked in, I met him backstage and he was like, oh, and I forgot what I was doing. I was like, what's going on? He was like, you're not doing that to me, right? You just showed up in this beautiful skirt. I had already sort of recovered. So I was like, oh, I'm sorry. You know, it was like, my bad. I had gotten sort of emotionally accustomed to the beauty of it, right? So to me, it was just a beautiful dress too, beautiful skirt. So yeah, I kind of did him wrong. I should have prepped him for it. But it was also a beautiful surprise. My brother was, I think he was in the audience. Had he seen it before? Had Craig seen it? I forgot to. Nobody had seen it. [01:00:01] Michelle Norris: Oh, it must have got to him too. [01:00:03] Speaker 4: Yeah, it got to everybody. But as you said, it's, you know, I was so glad to have her there with us. And then my team, while we were speaking on stage, they said that the minute Barack mentioned the skirt, it downpoured. Like it was clear because afterwards they said, oh, it rained so hard. I was like, I didn't hear the rain. They said it rained right when Barack was talking about the skirt and it stopped. [01:00:35] Michelle Norris: The ancestors. [01:00:36] Speaker 4: She was there. She's like, go on girl. She's like, aren't you something? You know what mom would say. She'd be like, oh, I can't believe this. Oh, you're just something else. So she's, she's here, you know, as are all of our ancestors and not just me and Barack, the stories of our upbringing. But you know, that's, I think that's what resonates and what will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors. America will see itself. And I'm saying all of America, regardless of political party, regardless of whether you voted for us or like us or have nasty things to say about us or not or love us. You will walk through these halls and you will feel seen here. [01:01:33] Michelle Norris: We saw something of your husband in that encounter also. It was a full circle moment because you reached out and grabbed his hand the way your mother had grabbed his. Of course you saw that. Yes, I did. I saw it. I noticed it. And we saw his emotions and he is someone who is free with his emotions and you don't always see that. Okay, let me just spin backwards. You don't see it in a man. Mm-hmm. If I can get really granular, you often don't see it in a black man. [01:02:00] Speaker 4: Because you're not supposed to. They're not supposed to be emotional. And you don't see it in a president. [01:02:06] Michelle Norris: Yeah. But you do with him. Yeah. Yeah. So what does it mean to have someone in leadership who is willing to show their emotions? And in this process, are we seeing another facet of him? [01:02:19] Speaker 4: Well, you know, we're at a time when there's a lot of talk about what it means to be a man. You know, it's all out there. There's a lot of mansplain going on. And what you feel in those conversations is what we understand is that men struggle just as much as we do in figuring out who they are and where to find place. And I've said this time and time again, I don't have sons. You do. I know a lot of my friends' sons. I love these young men. But we've done a great job in our lifetime of expanding the possibilities of what women and girls can be. We've worked hard to redefine that and to say, you know, you can take home the bacon, fry it up in a pan. Right? You can do it all. You can be a mom. You can have emotion. You can be tough. You can box. You can run. You can be strong. Right? You can be a musician. But during that time, I don't think we've done an equal justice to opening the aperture for what our men and boys can be. We've talked about this. There's still a very narrow definition of what it means to be a man. And it's still, you've got to win. You've got to be tough. You've got to be strong. You've got to be strong. You've got to be strong. Don't let them see you hurt. You've got to, you know, you've got to make money. You know? You've got to dominate. You've got to dominate. You've got to dominate. Right? But men come in all shapes, sizes and colors too. Temperament. We're born with it. You know? It's not unique to us as the female species. You know? There are a lot of young men who are born to create. Like my father, who was tough and boxed and all that before he got MS. There are young men who were born to nurture, to be teachers, to work with small children. There are young men who are wonderful child psychiatrists, you know, who can empathize and help people find their voice. Right? But if all they're rewarded for is win, throw the ball, catch the ball, beat up, make money. Wow! How sad it is for all the majority of men and boys who don't naturally fall into that, those narrow categories of what being a man is. And how sad and lonely that must be for them. So I think having leaders that model more matter, you know? And I know that Barack understands that. He's a tough guy. He doesn't cry much. But I think he has learned to let his emotions go because he knows he needs to show young men that that's okay too. It's okay to love your wife forever. It's okay not to cheat and lie. It's okay not to be a baller. It's okay to, you know, be sad when sad things happen, you know, and not have to suck it up all the time. That that's really what makes you a man, is the broadness and depth of your character. And it's not just one note. And how will boys know that if they don't see it? [01:05:55] Michelle Norris: I want to go back to the portrait of the two of you. That image will be in this building for a very long time, 10 years from now, 25 years from now, 50 years from now, into the next century. When people are looking back at the image of the two of you, what do you want them to see? What do you want them to remember? [01:06:17] Speaker 4: I want them to see a loving representation of a black couple, and it is important that race is there because we have an ebb and flow of how we feel about people of different races. Some decades we're moving forward and other decades, it feels like, well, what happened? I think we need to be reminded that excellence comes in all shapes, sizes and colors, genders, that there are many people who are great leaders. And your race, your income is the least of what makes you great. Your pedigree is the least of what makes you great. And the co-equal equanimity of our relationship, I think is important to remember at a time when, you know, gender roles are, they go up and down too. You know, what does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean to be a wife or a husband? That they see a couple that are, that, that revel in the fact that we are both equals, that that's what gives us energy. And that there's love there, deep, deep love. And I like the notion that even that story is, is a, it's a creation of many smaller stories that we didn't get where we are alone. Like there are two people, but there are millions of people who make up that story. So I think the, you know, the, the structure of the photo, of the portrait is just as important as the image that it's the two of us. That the two of us are made up of millions and millions of stories and people and experiences outside of who we are. There are men like that all over the place. Um, I happened to marry one of them and I am grateful for it. [01:08:43] Michelle Norris: We've got more coming up. Stay with us. [01:08:47] Speaker 1: Thank you so much. United States of America. We are all created equal. [01:08:52] Speaker 12: I want to do a speed round. Okay. I want to pepper you with a few questions that will allow us to go inside the museum itself. [01:08:58] Speaker 3: Okay. [01:08:59] Speaker 12: I've heard that you've tested every chair in the building. [01:09:02] Speaker 3: I'm not sure I've tested every chair, but I've tested a lot of them. [01:09:06] Michelle Norris: It's at the, I just have this image of you running around sitting in all the chairs. [01:09:10] Speaker 3: I, you know what? I'm a big believer in, in like stuff being comfortable because so much of the stuff inside is, is, is beautifully designed and, and meticulous and all this. Um, my attitude was, yeah, but if, if, if, if a young mom with three kids that she's been dragging around through this museum and her feet hurt and she now is sitting down, is it comfortable? I, I, I, I, I, no matter how pretty it is, can she, is she getting a break? [01:09:45] Speaker 12: Were any of the chairs replaced? [01:09:46] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:09:47] Michelle Norris: Oh, really? [01:09:48] Speaker 3: Okay. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say who, but there were a couple where I was all like, you know, this, this looks great until you sit there. [01:09:55] Michelle Norris: Okay. Yeah. Is there a hidden jewel in the museum, almost like an Easter egg that you worry people will miss? Something that you're really proud of, but you're afraid that people will miss it. [01:10:05] Speaker 3: This is actually not a hidden jewel. It is, uh, but people may miss it. Um, there is an, uh, an entire room, a display that we're calling Democracy 101. Mm-hmm. That's, uh, that is, is away from some of the flashier. [01:10:25] Michelle Norris: Kind of in a corner. [01:10:26] Speaker 3: The Oval Office, it's in a corner. Um, and it just gives people sort of a primer on the Constitution and the First Amendment. And, um, I'm, I'm, I'm really proud of that. I'm hoping people go through that because I think, um, I worked pretty closely with, um, the, the exhibit designers in, in creating a space where a lay person who's not, you know, studying this stuff all the time. Can just kind of go in and get a sense of, all right, I, I have a pretty good idea about what all these arguments are about. And, and I'm hoping that, especially kids, but adults as well, uh, take that in because I think it's done really well. [01:11:12] Michelle Norris: Well, now that you've said it, I think people are actually going to look for it. There is a restaurant on site. [01:11:17] Speaker 3: Yes. [01:11:18] Michelle Norris: Named for Tafari Campbell. Yes. Uh, wonderful. Who you knew. Well, yes, I knew him and, and miss him dearly. Yes. A wonderful, uh, person who was your personal chef for many years, man, could he cook? He could. I mean, he, he, he, he was special. Yeah. Um, and there is a restaurant that serves wonderful food. What is your favorite dish at Tafari's kitchen? [01:11:38] Speaker 3: I have to say it's actually the chili. I can't give Tafari credit for this one. Cause this is based on my own chili recipe. So I may be a little bit biased. I think people are like, wait, he cooks? Well, not anymore. Okay. But there was a time and, uh, it's, it's, it's pretty good chili. Really? With some cornbread with it. [01:11:56] Michelle Norris: Okay. All right. [01:11:58] Speaker 3: I, I, I give it two thumbs up. [01:12:00] Michelle Norris: Okay. [01:12:01] Speaker 3: What kind of beans do you use? Uh, you know what? You're going to, I'm going to let you go ahead. Okay. You have to try. Traditionally, I'm a, I'm a kidney bean guy, but check it out. Okay. [01:12:11] Speaker 12: I, I will do that. Your, um, critics have called the Affordable Care Act Obamacare. Right. And it was meant to be a sort of derisive name and you embraced it. [01:12:22] Michelle Norris: Yeah. I did that. Absolutely. So they're calling this, the main building, the Obamalists. Will you embrace that too? [01:12:30] Speaker 3: Absolutely. That's fine. I, I, uh, you know, I think that what I'm interested in is seeing how people respond when they visit. Um, I, I appreciate architecture enough to know that it'll be 20 years before we have a sense of how the architecture fits into people's imaginations and, and, uh, how, how, whether it lasts or not. Um, but what you, what you can know right away is the people enjoy being there. Right. Right. And if, as it seems so far, they do, if, if people feel excited by the space and inspired by the space and it's usable and it's fun and kids are in the playground and, uh, folks who are going through the museum, uh, are absorbing good energy and, uh, feel like, you know what? Uh, maybe I can go out there and do something too. Yeah. And they get to the sky room and they look, uh, around and, and see, uh, a panorama of Chicago and their own neighborhood that they've never seen before. [01:14:05] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. [01:14:06] Speaker 3: And community groups are having meetings there and, you know, folks are using a recording studio to, to film their own podcasts or make their own videos. And kids are sitting in that public library and reading and excited about reading. If, if all that stuff's happening, then, uh, we will have, uh, achieved what we're trying to achieve. [01:14:30] Michelle Norris: We've got more coming up. Stay with us. After you make your way through the museum, after you've marinated in the story of our nation's founding contradiction, the struggle for an inclusive multiracial democracy and the ongoing fight to keep it, the museum brings you here to this contemplative space, the graphics, the muted colors. It's a Zen-like environment. I mean, it's so calming. Where visitors are encouraged to take a breath, take a beat, maybe even take a seat and then place their own name inside America's ongoing story. [01:15:16] Speaker 9: We imagine that we are each a dot that can be added to this collective. And so you see how we're all dots coming together to make change. [01:15:26] Michelle Norris: The space is designed for participation. Visitors become part of this interactive artwork by Jules Julian, who creates floating landscapes made up of dots, thousands of dots, all individually drawn. They float along the wall and then come together to form little vignettes of everyday American life. A group of runners, two women from different generations, trees and clouds floating by, hands coming together into that same shape that inspired the very shape of this building. And some of these dots actually come from you, as you imagine your impact and then make a commitment to turn ideas into action. [01:16:09] Speaker 9: You can then make your own kind of pledge by adding your name and it transfers to the mural so you can see your name. [01:16:17] Michelle Norris: And so you can put your name, Wendy, we see here, and their name, make him up Channing. Yeah, as Channing. And you can add your own name and then see it here on the left. [01:16:25] Speaker 9: Yeah, but the idea is you've become a part of this collective. But again, you've taken in so much information throughout the museum. And this is a moment that's really ambient and engaging and inspiring. And contemplative. Very contemplative. [01:16:39] Michelle Norris: Type in your name and then watch it pop up on screen next to a brand new dot. You can then watch your very own dot float along and then join the rest. It's a symbolic representation of what it means to participate in a democracy. That progress is not promised, but must be won through collective action, pushing forward, rising together. In that sense, this part of the museum is a full circle moment, reaching back to the farewell address that President Obama delivered just up the road from here when he made a final request of the nation he led for eight years. I'm asking you to believe. [01:17:19] Speaker 10: You to believe. Not in my ability to bring about change, but in yours. [01:17:24] Michelle Norris: You've been through the campus many times. What's the exhibit that still gets you every single time? [01:17:30] Speaker 3: I've talked about this. Right outside the Oval Office, we have a display of a sampling of the ten letters that I used to receive every night. I think we got something like 40,000 pieces of correspondence every day. Every day? For eight years. 40,000 a day. While I was in the White House. And we had an entire letter correspondence office just responding to the public's letters. And that office would select ten representative letters for me to read each day. They'd put it in my folder at the top of my briefing book. And I'd usually save those for after I was finished with reading all the stuff I had to read. And I initiated that as a way of staying in touch with people, especially early on when we were going through so many difficult decisions. And so there's a display that has a sampling of those letters, but the exhibition team made this wonderful short video, this vignette, of a few of those letters. And whenever I watch those, because it's mother talking about, you know, Mr. President, I'm struggling. And it's a vet, you know, who's still trying to find his path after he's no longer serving. And people are really raw in their emotions in some of these letters, partly because they don't expect the President's actually going to read it. It's almost like a meditation for them, a way of getting stuff off their chest. And so whenever I watch that, I get kind of… [01:19:45] Michelle Norris: Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I get choked up. You're getting a little… [01:19:48] Speaker 3: Yeah. So… [01:19:50] Michelle Norris: Choked up now. [01:19:51] Speaker 3: If there's one exhibit that people should take the time right after the Oval Office, which everybody will go to just so they can take a picture of the apples and everything else that might be in there. Sit in your chair. Sit in the chair. Just come around on the side and there will be those letters and there will be a video that's looping. And take the time to watch that. Because I think that, as much as anything, captures what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was. [01:20:32] Speaker 12: And the spirit of your presidency was? [01:20:36] Speaker 3: A sense of generosity towards each other. A sense of that everybody counts and everybody matters and that when we act on that basic presumption, when we extend grace to each other, when we're willing to fight for that idea without sacrificing a recognition of the humanity of those that we're fighting against. If we can manage that, even if it's messy and not always perfect, then I think this country does well and the world does better. [01:21:35] Michelle Norris: More coming up after this break. Thank you all for joining us tonight for Hope Comes Home inside the Obama Presidential Center. And I want to leave you tonight with one final thought. The speech that wraps around the building you see behind me is from President Obama's You Are America speech. The one he delivered at the 50th anniversary of the march across the bridge in Selma back in 2015. And in those remarks, he focused on one word, the word that in his view is the most important in the Constitution. He was talking about the word "we." We the people. We shall overcome. Yes, we can. A word that ideally should stand as an invitation to everyone. You are America. [01:22:18] Speaker 5: Unconstrained by habit and convention. Unencumbered by what is. Because you're ready to seize what ought to be. For everywhere in this country, there are first steps to be taken. There is a new ground to cover. There are more bridges to be crossed. And it is you, the young and fearless at heart. The most diverse and educated generation in our history who the nation is waiting to follow. [01:22:44] Speaker 7: Because Selma shows us that America is not the project of any one person. [01:22:50] Speaker 5: Because the single most powerful word in our democracy is the word "we." We the people. We shall overcome. Yes, we can. [01:22:59] Speaker 4: That word is owned by no one. It belongs to everyone. [01:23:03] Speaker 1: Oh, what a, what a glorious task we are given. To continually try to improve this great nation of ours. This great nation of ours. [01:23:12] Speaker 8: This great nation of ours. I'm yours. I'm yours. I'm yours. [01:23:16] Speaker 1: I'm yours. I'm yours. Oh, wait, baby, I shed my soul on fire. [01:23:20] Speaker ?: Oh, wait, baby. [01:23:21] Speaker 1: I shed my soul on fire. Oh, wait, baby. I shed my soul on fire. Oh, wait, baby. I shed my soul on fire. Oh, wait, baby. I shed my soul on fire. [01:23:43] Speaker ?: I shed my soul on fire. Oh, wait, baby. I shed my soul on fire. Oh, wait, baby. I shed my soul on fire. I shed my soul on fire. I shed my soul on fire.