Guided by a Guru? Inside explosive WaPo report about the man who shaped Gabbard's career

[0:00] There is a new explosive report investigating now former Director of National Intelligence [0:05] Tulsi Gabbard's ties to a religious sect called Science of Foundation, raising questions about [0:11] whether a spiritual guru had extraordinary influence over her policymaking, her politics, [0:17] and virtually every move she made on camera for years. Washington Post investigative reporter [0:22] John Swain obtained hundreds of confidential memos detailing guidance allegedly sent to Gabbard [0:28] from 2011 to 2017, including when she was in Congress. Evidence, Swain says, points to the [0:35] memos coming from a man named Chris Butler, head of a breakaway sect of the Hare Krishna group, [0:41] someone Gabbard has called her guru. The Washington Post compared Gabbard's remarks in 32 TV interviews [0:48] between 2014 and 2016, with talking points allegedly sent to her, and found that on 24 occasions, [0:55] Gabbard used language sent to her in those memos almost verbatim. Other times, Gabbard used different [1:01] words, but promoted basically the exact same ideas. A chief of staff for Gabbard told the Post in part, [1:08] quote, the attacks on Director Gabbard's faith and loyalty are not only false, they are a blatant [1:13] example of anti-Hindu bigotry. And a PR firm connected to the religious sect also told the Post, [1:20] quote, Hindu phobia, anti-Hindu religious bigotry, that's all this is. When a Hindu public figure has [1:26] a spiritual teacher or shares views with a Hindu religious figure, that alone is somehow evidence [1:32] of sinister control. Let's bring in Washington Post investigative reporter John Swain. It's good to see [1:38] you. What an incredible piece here. But I want to back up for a moment. How did you get a hold of that [1:45] trove of confidential memos and end up tracking down this story? Back when Tulsi Gabbard was nominated [1:54] by President Trump to be Director of National Intelligence in November 2024, I was looking into [2:01] Tulsi Gabbard and her relationship with her guru, trying to find out this question, this issue of [2:06] how much influence did he have on her. And at the time, I kind of struck out. I didn't get anywhere. [2:12] And someone I spoke with at the time, who's in the same religious group, the Science of Identity [2:17] Foundation, reached back out months later. And through our conversations, it led to her checking [2:24] an old email inbox. And in that inbox, remarkably, were hundreds of memos that she and others around [2:31] the guru had received during Tulsi Gabbard's time in Congress. And they contained what appeared to be [2:37] firm directives, guidance, advice, sometimes verging on orders for things that Tulsi Gabbard [2:45] should do or say. [2:48] John, you know, a lot of members of Congress, they have ties to influential pastors around [2:53] the United States, some of whom are very controversial themselves. So what did you find in this reporting [2:58] that struck you as different or wholly unusual when you think about the relationships that a lot [3:04] of politicians have with religious figures around the United States? Sure. And of course, you know, [3:10] members of Congress have rabbis and priests and imams. And Tulsi Gabbard herself had said that her [3:16] relationship with her guru was just like that. It was a spiritual relationship. He was her spiritual [3:22] teacher. She was asked back in 2019 directly, did he ever politically mentor her? And she was emphatic. [3:29] She said, no, no. What we found in these documents, however, is that in addition to spiritual advice [3:36] and advice about her faith, Gabbard was receiving extensive detailed directives for what legislation [3:44] to propose, what to say in press releases, what to say in TV interviews, as you highlighted. And I think [3:53] it's pretty clear that that kind of relationship, that kind of advice and directives and guidance [3:58] far exceeds the regular relationship that a member of Congress would have with a religious leader, [4:05] where we're not going anywhere near the details of Director Gabbard's Hindu faith. We're not talking [4:14] about the theology involved here. The claims of Hindu phobia sort of missed the point, I think, [4:20] which is that this is about political guidance and directives for a public official on what she should [4:26] propose in the House, what she should say in public statements. And she, you know, members of Congress [4:32] are on committees that deal with very important things. And this level of advice and guidance is [4:38] pretty extraordinary. For anyone who hasn't had the chance to read the piece, I want to read an example [4:45] that you cite from 2014. A memo says, important to do, must tweet around 9 a.m. It contained a pre-written [4:53] tweet with a link to a video on the plight of Kurdish fighters in the Syrian, in a Syrian city, which was [4:59] under siege by the Islamic State extremist group. Then came this tweet from Gabbard carrying out a [5:05] wish list. In another 2014 example, a memo contains policy instructions that warrant to avoid delays in [5:12] medical treatment. Veterans should be able to get care at any hospital and be reimbursed by Veterans [5:17] Affairs. And they should be able to do so without first obtaining government approval, actually put forward [5:23] legislation, get it done, the speaker said. It is highly, highly unusual. I mean, you have other [5:30] instances too, where there's advice about things to say in television hits, and then you're able to find [5:36] the exact moments where she's gone on a network, like gone with Wolf Blitzer at CNN, and says almost [5:42] exactly what she has been told to say. When you've spoken to experts, and as you did all this work for [5:48] the story, what kind of questions does this raise for you? A lot of this material comes from when she was [5:53] serving in Congress. But of course, she was just the nation's top spy chief. What are the implications [5:58] of that? She was. And I should say, as you point out, these memos with guidance and directives stopped [6:06] before she left Congress in terms of the ones that I have access to. We don't know if they continued in [6:12] those years afterward. But there was a second half to this story, which was that followers, devotees of [6:19] her guru, for years, ran an initiative to boost Tulsi Gabbard online. They posted comments on social [6:26] media. They replied to newspaper articles on newspaper websites. And what I was able to find [6:33] was that that side of things, at least, did continue right up to her nomination as D&I through her [6:40] presidential campaign in 2020. And I found that accounts that were operated by her faith group [6:47] in the years, sort of a decade ago, were continuing to tweet in her favor, in support of her when she [6:54] stepped down as D&I just in these recent weeks. So it really indicates that there is this ongoing [7:00] relationship to some extent between Tulsi Gabbard and the faith group. The question of whether the guru [7:07] was giving advice in more recent years remains open. And I'd love to be able to look into that. [7:15] I don't have access to documents that show that. But, you know, we continue to report. [7:22] Well, if you do, I would love to have you back on to hear all about it. [7:26] Incredible work. Extraordinary story. John Swain, thank you. [7:30] Thanks.