Gov. Wes Moore, NASA's Jared Isaacman and more — Face the Nation Full Broadcast - April 5, 2026

[0:02] I'm Ed O'Keefe in Washington. And this week on Face the Nation, [0:06] the missing crew member from a downed fighter jet in Iran is rescued in a daring mission. [0:11] Plus, Artemis II makes its way around the moon. Breaking overnight, [0:18] a U.S. Air Force officer in Iran rescued alive after an urgent two-day manhunt involving special [0:24] operations forces in a remote area of Iran when the F-15E fighter jet went down. [0:30] We'll get details on the operation and President Trump's threats to escalate attacks [0:35] unless Iran reopens the Strait of Hormuz. Former CENTCOM commander, retired General Kenneth [0:40] Frank McKenzie joins us to break it all down. Plus, we'll hear from Maryland's Democratic [0:45] Governor Wes Moore about the war's effects here at home, an analysis from our political path. [0:51] On this Easter Sunday, Archbishop Timothy Broglio, who oversees Catholic chaplains in the military, [0:57] shares the spiritual guidance he's offering service members during wartime. Then... [1:02] To watch the moon grow is exciting. That's our destination. That's where we're locked onto. [1:08] Tomorrow, the crew of Artemis II makes history, [1:11] becoming the first humans to see some parts of the far side of the moon. [1:15] NASA Administrator Jarek Isaacer gives us a mission update. It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. [1:22] Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. Margaret is off today. [1:41] But we begin with some good news this Easter Sunday morning, as that rescued officer is being [1:46] flown to Kuwait to be treated for his injuries when his fighter jet got shot down Friday. [1:51] President Trump posted on Truth Social in the early hours of this morning, [1:55] we got him, calling the operation an amazing show of bravery and talent by all. [2:00] As he's renewed threats to Iran in recent days of intensifying military operations if they don't [2:06] negotiate, he also declared this morning that Tuesday will be power plant day and bridge day, [2:12] all wrapped up in one. Senior national security correspondent Charlie Daggett has details on the [2:18] mission. Video this morning purports to show the smoldering wreckage of two U.S. C-130 transport [2:25] planes that were involved in the rescue mission on a remote base in Iran. Sources tell us American [2:31] forces blew them up in order to avoid them falling into enemy hands, standard U.S. military practice. [2:38] U.S. officials and White House sources describe a complex operation involving dozens of U.S. [2:44] commandos and several dozen war planes and helicopters in the search and eventual rescue [2:51] of the missing F-15 crew member. Attack helicopters and aircraft kept Iranian forces [2:57] from getting anywhere near where the crewman was hiding. Armed Iranians had been scouring the [3:03] mountainous terrain to find him first, with the promise of a huge cash reward. [3:08] But a Trump administration official tells CBS News the CIA was deeply involved, not only in the hunt, [3:15] but in a ploy to spread false information inside Iran that U.S. forces had already found him and were [3:21] transporting him by ground out of the country. [3:25] The race to find the two-man F-15 crew began on Friday. The pilot was rescued within hours of the [3:31] fighter jet being brought down. He sustained some injuries. We have learned the second crewman is [3:37] seriously wounded, according to President Trump. The downing of the jet came amid a fierce U.S. [3:43] bombing campaign in Iran, including blowing up Iran's biggest bridge linking Tehran to key cities. [3:50] Iran says more than a dozen people were killed. And Iran has continued to retaliate, striking an oil [3:57] refinery in Iraq, launching strikes across the Gulf from Bahrain to Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, [4:05] and more missile barrages in Israel. Yesterday, President Trump again warned that time is running [4:11] out for Iran to open up the Strait of Hormuz by tomorrow, or the U.S. will unleash hell. A senior Iranian [4:19] leader has rejected that ultimatum. Charlie Daggett in London, thank you. [4:24] We're joined now by the former head of U.S. Central Command, retired General Frank McKenzie. [4:28] General, happy Easter. And the same to you, Ed. [4:33] So it took just under 48 hours to find the missing weapons systems officer [4:38] after the jet they were in went down in a remote and mountainous area of southwestern Iran. The weapons [4:43] officer was hiding in a mountainous crevice, we're told by a senior administration official. [4:48] What's your assessment of how the search and rescue operation went? [4:52] So I think I'd draw two lessons from it, Ed. First of all, the excellence of the joint force, [4:57] our ability to rapidly pivot, to look for a downed air crewman. We train for this endlessly. It's a [5:04] part of every time we send air crew over enemy territory, we have detailed, elaborate plans to go [5:09] get them. It's a very basic part of who we are as American fighting men and women. So that plan [5:15] swing into action. I think it was executed pretty effectively. As always, you've got somebody on [5:21] the ground, maybe injured. They got to get to a position where they can hide until you can get to [5:25] them. All that seemed to work out very well. And you know, we did in fact lose a couple of aircraft [5:31] in that mission. But I would just tell you, it takes a year to build an aircraft. It takes 200 years [5:36] to build a military tradition where you don't leave anybody behind. You take the aircraft trade any day [5:41] in a situation like this. The other lesson, I think, is a hard lesson for Iran. First of all, [5:47] they were not able to find the missing air crewman. Second, you know, they put out a broad appeal to [5:53] their people to turn him in, reward, asking for all kinds of leads. That does not appear to have [5:58] been successful. And that would, I think that's maybe a sign of disaffection. Don't know. But you [6:03] can't, you can't be happy with that if you're a senior leader in Tehran this morning. [6:07] Yeah. You know, Iran's Revolutionary Guard is now claiming responsibility for attacks on [6:12] petrochemical plants in the UAE, Kuwait, and Bahrain. They warn its attacks against U.S. economic [6:17] interests will intensify if attacks on civilian targets in Iran are repeated. Does Iran and its [6:24] proxies retain the capacity to inflict serious damage at this point? [6:28] They have the ability to inflict damage. They do not have the ability to gain mass effects. And by [6:35] mass effects, I mean firing many, many dozens of rockets, missiles, or drones. I think that [6:41] capability has been eroded steadily since this campaign began. And frankly, at about plus 30 days [6:47] into this campaign, I think if you're at central command, you've got to be reasonably satisfied [6:52] with where you are right now. In fact, Ed, when I was the CENTCOM commander, if you had given me this [6:57] situation at plus 30 days, I would have rejected it as being too optimistic by far. So we've had good [7:03] effect. Our effects are going to continue. It's going to be increasingly harder for them to launch [7:07] missiles and rockets. We may not get to zero for a while, and I think there's still some time ahead, [7:11] but everyone realizes that. But I think we're on track here. This campaign is moving very effectively, [7:17] and I believe the pace will pick up every day. To your earlier point, the president said something [7:22] interesting to Fox News this morning, revealing for the first time that the U.S. earlier this year [7:27] had sent a, quote, lot of guns to the Kurds who live in northern Iraq, northern Iran for use by [7:33] protesters. So he wanted them to use these weapons and said, you know, he's inferring now that he was [7:40] sending weapons to have the Iranian people rise up. On Wednesday night, though, in his big speech, [7:45] clarifying what the war is all about, he said this campaign is not about regime change. [7:49] But if they are now, in fact, arming protesters, what might that signal? [7:53] Well, I think you want to put pressure on this regime in every way that you can. [7:59] Arming Kurds certainly increases pressure on the Iranian regime. We know from history that [8:04] leadership in Iran responds when existential pressure is applied to the regime. [8:10] Arming the Kurds moves you a step closer toward that. Even if your ultimate aim is not regime change, [8:15] getting the regime in Tehran to a place where they'll make a deal that's to our liking is going [8:21] to be the inevitable byproduct of intolerable pressure that's placed over on them. And I think [8:26] all of these add together to do that. You said last week a success for the White House is that the [8:30] Strait of Hormuz reopens. But that vital passageway, of course, remains effectively choked off. [8:35] The president this Easter morning used some, shall we say, colorful language to threaten Iran [8:41] again to reopen the Strait. If the U.S. launches its own military operation in the coming days to open [8:47] the Strait, what's it going to take militarily to do that? Well, let me let me say, first of all, [8:54] we do have the ability to open the Strait should we choose to do it. And what you're seeing now are [8:59] the what I would call the precursor of the initial steps in such a campaign. You want to reduce Iran's [9:04] ability to fire short range rockets and missiles into the Strait against warships. You want to take out [9:10] their fast attack craft. Think of them as cigarette boats, large, powerful outboard engine boats [9:15] that can race out and get among ships and cause direct damage that way. What we're doing is we're [9:20] going after all those vessels. And that's where A-10s attack aircraft, attack helicopters, and other [9:26] slow moving low altitude platforms are so very effective. So we're in the process of removing [9:32] those right now. At the same time, we're working to get rid of Iran's mine stockpile. The mines are [9:37] very dangerous. They had thousands when the war began. I have no doubt we've significantly [9:41] attruted them now. Of course, it doesn't take many mines to cause a significant blockage to [9:45] world shipping. So all of that is underway right now. And you want to reduce those to a low level [9:50] before you put your warships up there to actually sort of test the waters in that Strait. I have no [9:55] idea what Admiral Cooper's decision-making process is going to be for that. But I think we're well on [10:00] the way to achieving those goals. Can the Strait be reopened with an air and naval campaign, [10:03] or are you going to need ground troops? I think it could be opened with an air and naval campaign. [10:09] And the use of ground troops would probably be along the line of raids. And remember, [10:15] a raid is an attack with a planned withdrawal. Well, you don't plan to stay. The one exception [10:19] might be Karg Island. I know the president has talked about it. I think it has a unique place [10:24] in Iranian culture because one thing, if you seize it, you're holding Iranian soil. Secondly, [10:29] it is the critical note through which all their oil supplies pass. By seizing it, you have the [10:34] opportunity to cut that off, inflicting grievous damage on the Iranian economy. And yet, [10:39] with the opportunity perhaps to return it as part of a negotiation process. Further, [10:43] you don't permanently damage the global economy by destroying the infrastructure. [10:47] So I think Karg Island is a very lucrative target. I'm sure we're looking at it hard right now. [10:52] I have no idea if we're going to choose to go up there. [10:54] JOHN YANG, President of the United States, In our last 30 seconds or so here, [10:57] General, bottom line this, the president says two to three weeks is all that it's going to take. [11:01] Would you agree with that, or is it going to take longer? [11:03] You know, I always hesitate to put time on a, to put a timeline on a military operation like this. [11:11] But I would say the Iranians would be very well served to listen to President Trump when he says [11:16] he's going to hit them because he's proven that he's willing to do that. So that's the lesson I [11:21] would learn from his most recent pronouncement and from actually what we've done in the war to this [11:25] date. If the president says we're going to do something, we're probably going to do it. And it [11:29] probably is good time for the Iranian leadership to take note of that fact. [11:32] All right, we'll leave it there. General McKenzie, happy Easter again. Thank you [11:35] for spending some time with us this morning. We appreciate it. [11:37] And Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us. [11:44] On Friday, we traveled to the Maryland State House in Annapolis to speak with the [11:48] Democratic governor, Wes Moore. The interview occurred shortly after we learned the U.S. [11:53] fighter jet had been shot down over Iran and before any crew members had been rescued. [11:58] Here's our conversation. [12:00] We're meeting amid an ongoing war that is having a bit of an effect on the economy, [12:06] rising gas prices. Inflation keeps creeping up. It was a decent jobs report on Friday, [12:11] but mortgage rates are climbing and mortgage applications are down. [12:16] You observe this as a governor and you know that residents in your state are feeling the economic [12:21] pinch. What can you do as a governor to address all this? [12:24] Well, we are feeling it. And it is true that a governor does not control the fact that energy [12:32] prices have spiked over the past year. My mom's energy bill in March of last year was $140. [12:41] It's now creeping close to $500. Governors don't have full control over that. Governors can't control [12:47] the fact that gas prices have gone up now over a dollar because we've decided to enter into another [12:54] war of choice. That governors cannot control the fact that we are continuing to watch homes become [13:01] more difficult and more expensive. But the thing we can do as governors is we can make sure that even [13:07] though I don't control the price of food, that I can make sure that we're not doing price manipulation [13:12] and that these big corporations aren't gouging our customers as we're doing here in the state of [13:16] Maryland. You know, that I can make sure that even though we are watching energy prices rise, [13:21] that we can hold these data center companies accountable and also making sure we're giving [13:25] a rebate and giving something back to the people of the state of Maryland, which we're doing here. [13:30] Even your approval rating appears to have taken a hit in recent days, at least in one survey. [13:34] And among those who disapprove, they cited raising taxes and fees. There's been some conversation in this [13:40] state at least about possibly waiving the gas tax for a little while. It is one of the higher ones [13:45] in the country. You say governors can't do much about the gas price. You could conceivably establish [13:50] a gas price holiday, no? Yeah, I mean, the best thing that we could do to be able to address gas prices [13:56] is by stop fighting foreign wars and stop watching gas prices jump up over a dollar. So you agree with [14:03] the president's theory that it'll go back down once the war is over? No, I disagree because I think the [14:08] president still does not have a full articulation as to why gas prices are going up in the first place [14:13] or what's going to be necessary or required to be able to bring them down. You know, I think about [14:17] what we've done here in Maryland to address that, where we've actually given the middle class in [14:21] Maryland a tax cut because I do believe that we need to give the middle class a little bit of extra [14:26] relief now. And we ask the wealthiest of Marylanders to be able to invest a little bit more so we can do [14:32] things like having the rising, uh, you know, increases in-in reading and math scores like we're seeing in Maryland [14:37] and the fact that Maryland now has amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. [14:43] And we ask the wealthiest of Marylanders to be able to do more to participate in that. [14:47] So, gas tax holidays off the table, then, in your view. [14:49] Yeah, I-I think we-we need to stop fighting these-these forever wars. [14:53] And-and, you know, and I-and I think about the fact that we are-we are very dangerously-we're lurching [15:00] again into another forever war. And this is a forever war that is very similar to the one that I fought [15:06] in, where I-I led soldiers with the 82nd Airborne Division in Afghanistan. And I know that the United [15:14] States was in Afghanistan for 20 years, that it cost this country over two and a half trillion dollars, [15:22] that we lost over 2,400 American lives. And we did it because we said we wanted to change the Taliban. [15:31] And 20 years later, you know who's in charge of Afghanistan? The Taliban. And so I feel like we [15:37] are lurching into another one of these forever wars that we're asking the American people to pay for, [15:43] but we have still-but the President of the United States and the Commander-in-Chief has still yet to [15:47] articulate what exactly it is that we're doing. As we meet here, there are search and rescue [15:52] operations underway now inside Iran because a U.S. fighter jet has been shot down. In recent days, [15:59] the President suggested this operation will be done in two to three weeks. That doesn't seem to sit [16:04] with you. It's-this is sitting horribly with me because I'm thinking about these families. I'm [16:09] thinking about the families of our service members who right now who are afraid to pick up the phone [16:13] because they're afraid to hear what is on the other end of the line. That we had a President of the [16:22] United States talk about the military success that we have seen thus far while still acknowledging-without [16:28] acknowledging the fact of the long road ahead and no one understands or can-has been articulated to us [16:35] what exactly it is that we are doing or what success looks like. And so I'm, um, I'm praying for these [16:41] families. But also what I'm praying for is some clarity from the White House. You're giving three [16:47] commencement addresses this season to members of the class of 2026. And one of them is at the [16:53] military prep school that you attended. A bunch of those students may be heading into the services [16:57] right away. What would be your message to them? Um, I'm so proud of the fact that I, uh, I'm gonna give [17:06] the commencement at a school to help to save my life. You know, I-I got-I got sent there, uh, because [17:12] people always say, why'd you choose to go to military school? I say, no one chooses to go to military [17:16] school. I-I was sent. Um, because I was angry, because I was frustrated, because I had a difficult [17:25] childhood. And that place helped to save my life. And I'm proud to go back and talk to these cadets. [17:31] Um, I also know that there will be some of those cadets who will then choose to join the military. And [17:36] what I'm going to tell them is I'm proud of them. I'm proud of them for choosing a life of service. [17:42] I'm proud of them for being able to fight for our country and fight for our democracy. [17:49] Um, but I am also praying for them, and I'm praying for the leadership of this country, [17:55] that they will make decisions with them and their families in mind, uh, and not just simply [18:01] make decisions that I think, um, have been just wrongheaded and foolish on their face. [18:08] Part of the reason I wanted to speak with you is in another recent interview, [18:11] you floated a theory of what the next president's going to have to figure out and how to organize [18:17] what president Trump has done in, as you said, into five distinct buckets. What's broken and irreparable, [18:24] what's broken and can be fixed, what's broken and needs to be fixed differently, [18:29] what survives but needs to be broken, and what survives and needs to be sustained. [18:33] Yeah. [18:34] You've given this some thought. So I wanted to walk you through some specific things and sort [18:39] of wonder what buckets they would fall into. Okay. [18:42] Where would you put Iran? Well, I would actually put Iran into a larger bucket, [18:49] and that is... A sixth bucket. [18:50] Well, how we think about foreign wars. Okay. [18:53] Right. Because, you know, I think about Donald Trump ran making three promises, [18:59] right, that he was going to bring prices down, that he was going to release the Epstein files, [19:04] and that he was not going to get us involved in foreign wars. And the American people voted for that. [19:10] And it's strike one, strike two, strike three. Because on each and every one of those things [19:17] that he promised, he did not make happen. And so when I talk about how the United States military [19:23] can and should be used, as someone who has served, as someone who has fought for this country, [19:28] I know there are times when the United States military, the world's greatest military, [19:33] can and should be used. And let's be clear, let's not confuse military success with the United States [19:39] military with strategic success. So thinking ahead, Iran, is it broken and irreparable? [19:45] Does it survive and need to be sustained? Does it broken need to be fixed differently, [19:49] the relationship with Iran? I think that the relationship with Iran right now is not just broken, [20:01] but I'm not sure if there's been an articulation of what the path forward is. [20:05] And when we're talking about Iran, you're not just talking about the relationship with Iran. [20:10] You're talking about Iran's relationship with other countries. You're talking about a larger [20:13] foreign policy, you know, complication. And by the way, we have decided to start this war [20:20] when we're also doing two separate things, that we've essentially obliterated what we have in terms [20:24] of our soft power, USAID, how America does its foreign aid. And we're doing it while the Department [20:30] of Homeland Security, whose job it is to keep the homeland safe, is shut down. So this is the, [20:36] frankly, just the foolishness in the way that we're approaching issues of war and peace that I think [20:44] we've got to be able to address. What bucket would you put the U.S.'s relationship with Israel in? [20:48] Well, I think the U.S. relationship with Israel is an important relationship. But I think with any [20:55] important relationship, there needs to be accountability. You know, I look at the fact that [20:59] we're fighting this war in Iran. And one of the things that, there's three things you always hope [21:06] for as a soldier, right? That war should always be the last resort. That the second piece should [21:12] always be that you are clear about your mission and clear about your endgame. And the third is that [21:17] you built an international coalition. We haven't done any of those things with this war that we are [21:22] waging in Iran. In the midst of all this, the president in recent days told the gathering at the White [21:28] House that, in his view, because of the 50 states, quote, it's not possible for us to take care of [21:34] daycare, Medicaid, Medicare, all these individual things. He argues the federal government shouldn't [21:39] have to pay for those programs because, quote, we have to take care of one thing, military protection. [21:45] That's nonsense. And that's not what any of us want. We don't want to be fighting foreign wars while [21:51] you're taking away our health care. Could a state even pay for Medicaid and Medicare daycare without [21:56] federal assistance? So many of the decisions that this White House is making, they are making [22:01] with a clear understanding that no state has a budget to say, OK, well, we'll just take on [22:06] health care or we'll just take on food insecurity. We saw that happen last year when the president of [22:12] the United States broke the law in order to cut snap. In fact, we sued them and we won and we beat him [22:18] in court on this. Sounds like he's going to try again, though. [22:21] And he did try again. He actually tried to appeal the fact, you know, through a temper tantrum because [22:25] he felt because the judges told him, actually, no, you need to pay for food assistance for people. [22:29] And what we ended up doing is in Maryland, I actually took 63 million dollars out of our fiscal [22:34] responsibility fund, which is a fund that is made up of capital gains taxes. And I said, well, I'm not [22:39] going to let the people of my state go hungry because Washington is throwing a having a food fight. [22:46] And so we made sure that snap and snap benefits were not going to be cut for the people of Maryland. [22:50] But it is a deeply unfair ask to ask states and or governors because we do things that the federal [22:56] government has never done. We actually balance our budgets. And it is an unfair ask to ask us to take [23:01] on what should be a joint responsibility because the federal government has decided to stop doing its job. [23:06] We have to leave it there, Governor. But thank you for taking the time. [23:09] Happy Easter. Happy Easter. [23:10] We'll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us. [23:22] On Thursday, we spoke with Archbishop Timothy Brolio, the archdiocese for the military services. [23:28] He oversees more than 200 priests serving as Catholic chaplains in the U.S. military [23:33] on bases and the battlefield. We began by asking about the situation in the Middle East and the [23:38] spiritual guidance the church is providing to service members who seek it. [23:42] We're dealing with a situation in the Middle East now, for example, where [23:45] the chaplains are still in place, but many of the dependents have been moved to Europe or back to [23:54] the United States. So they find themselves in a situation where the faithful to whom they were [23:59] ministering are either gone or they're in hotels. So that changes the whole reality. And then there are [24:05] others, of course, who are with the troops that have been moved in. And of course, their ministry, [24:13] in a certain sense, is a little more regular. But it's still a challenge because of the situation. [24:21] Given that you're a priest ministering to people in the military, I imagine much of your work, [24:26] much of your focus is built around St. Augustine and the idea of just war or when is war justified? [24:33] The idea that it's only waged as a necessity and in order that peace may be obtained and more [24:39] broadly, perhaps that the response is proportional. Correct. That's to gloss over pretty deep teachings, [24:45] but essentially that's the root of it. I know that after the president, for example, threatened [24:50] to take Greenland by force, you had said in an interview, it doesn't seem acceptable to invade a [24:55] friendly nation and that such rhetoric tarnishes the images of the United States. You said it would be [25:00] an illegal and immoral order to kill deliberately the survivors aboard an alleged Venezuelan [25:05] drug boat if they don't post an immediate lethal threat to our armed forces. So given what's going [25:10] on in the Middle East, I'm curious, is the war with Iran justified? I would think under the just war [25:18] theory it is not. Because while there was a threat with nuclear arms, it's compensating for a threat [25:29] before the threat is actually realized. And I think there I would line myself up with Pope Leo, who has [25:39] been urging for negotiation. I realize also that you could say, well, with whom are you going to negotiate? [25:47] And that is a problem. But in the meantime, lives are being lost both there and also among our troops. [25:56] So it is a concern. And so if you're hearing from a service member who says, if your teachings, [26:05] if your guidance is this is not justified, what am I to do as a Catholic who's in the service? [26:12] And that that's a very good question, because obviously, the way conscientious objection is set [26:18] up in the United States military, you cannot object to a specific war or a specific action. You can only [26:26] object to I'm opposed to war. So I would think it depends on where you are in the in the chain of [26:34] command. Obviously, you know, the Marine who's given an order, he's not in a position really to to resist [26:41] that order. I mean, he has to obey unless it's it's less it's clearly immoral. And then he would [26:48] probably have to speak to his, you know, to his chaplain to his chain of command. The question might [26:52] be would, you know, would would would generals or admirals have space to perhaps say, can we look at [27:00] this a different way? But having spoken to some of them to their, they're also in the same in the [27:05] same dilemma. So I guess my counsel would be to do as little harm as you as you can, and to try and [27:13] preserve innocent lives. And you're approaching this from a moral perspective. This isn't a partisan [27:18] thing. This is an ideological for you or geopolitical. It's you're a moral leader. So obviously, someone in [27:25] the service who grapples with this will seek guidance from you and your brother chaplains, [27:31] how often do they come to you talking about how to seek forgiveness, perhaps, for being part of this? [27:36] That is actually something we've done a lot of work on as an archdiocese, the whole question of moral [27:41] injury. So I mean, even if you obey a legitimate command, but you have to kill someone, that's going [27:47] to leave some some traces in, you know, in your in your heart or on your soul. And so there, we've tried to [27:58] provide structures and help to to people in that situation to try and help them heal from those from [28:05] those situations. And that's not a question of making a judgment. It's just a question of healing the [28:10] individual who finds himself in that or herself in that in that situation. Yeah, you obviously and and [28:17] your and your brother priests are on Pentagon property, taking orders, obviously, through the [28:24] military chain of command. There's been a lot of conversation in recent weeks, separate from [28:34] the actual war itself regarding the rhetoric of, say, the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, who [28:40] openly invokes Jesus repeatedly when talking about the war with Iran, especially, and has prayed openly from [28:46] the Pentagon press room for blessings upon American service members, obviously his right to pray in [28:51] public and however he sees fit. But what do you make of of that sort of focus and sort of trying to [28:59] cast this war as something that perhaps Jesus would justify? It's a little bit problematic in the sense that [29:07] the Lord Jesus certainly brought a message of peace. And also, I think war is always a last resort. [29:23] Now, you know, they may have information that that led them to think that that was the only choice they [29:27] had. I'm not making a judgment about that because I really don't know. But I do think that it's hard to [29:34] to cast this war, you know, as something that would be sponsored by the Lord. [29:46] And that's certainly something the Pope has suggested himself, right? Not commenting on the [29:52] Secretary, but commenting on war generally, that this idea that, you know, if you're praying [29:58] for the success of the war, what is it he said recently, he said, God does not listen to the [30:04] prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them. And that would seem to put a lot of what's going [30:09] on right now in conflict. [30:10] It certainly would. And I turn back to just to Paul VI, who made very few trips outside of Italy. [30:20] But when he did come to the UN, he made that dramatic appeal, which I saw live on television [30:26] as a little kid. You know, never again war, never again war. And yet, that was in 1965, I think. [30:38] Now, so many years later, we're still we're still in this situation. So I think I think I would be in [30:46] I think Pope Leo would definitely support saying that, you know, we have to find a situation where [30:54] men and women can sit down and find avenues of peace. [30:58] In our remaining moments, you obviously minister primarily to Catholic service members. [31:04] But this is a holy season, Passover underway, Ramadan recently having ended. [31:08] And ultimately, on the battlefield, it doesn't matter to your brother chaplains, whether they're [31:12] Catholic or Protestant or Jewish. What's the interfaith dialogue like these days, especially [31:18] at a time of war? [31:19] I think it's it's it's very healthy in the sense that there is a a genuine desire to collaborate. [31:27] Actually, I know most of the rabbis in the services, because we frequently travel at the same [31:32] the same time. For us, Christmas and Easter for them, Passover and Hanukkah. And they're fewer in [31:39] numbers. So I certainly get to meet them. But there is a genuine spirit of of collaboration. And there's [31:45] a desire to facilitate the work of chaplains. And I think that's a very it's a very healthy thing. [31:52] Well, thank you for being here on this Easter weekend. And thank you obviously for your service, [31:56] not only to the country, but to the faith. We appreciate you spending some time with us. [32:00] Thank you. Thank you very much for the opportunity. [32:02] And we'll be back in a moment. We turn now to our political panel. [32:09] David Sanger is the White House and national security correspondent for The New York Times [32:13] and the author of New Cold Wars. Paperback copies coming out on Tuesday. You should check that out. [32:17] Amy Walter is the publisher and editor in chief of The Cook Political Report with Amy Walter. [32:22] And Jeff Mason is a Washington correspondent at Bloomberg, making his Face the Nation debut. [32:28] So, Jeff, at least under my rules, you get the first question. [32:31] This past week, the White House tried selling the war with Iran as a good thing. [32:37] Then we had this fighter jet shot down. Both personnel on board have now been rescued. [32:43] How's that sales pitch landing with the American public? [32:46] Well, number one, I think it's right to call it a sales pitch. And it's a late sales pitch. [32:49] The president did not give an address like that at the beginning of the war, [32:52] which most presidents would do before a military conflict. Number two, in that address on Wednesday [32:58] night, he really used sales pitchy language, talking about how long previous wars have been, [33:03] how this is not going to be that long, going back to World War I and World War II. But then the [33:08] political risk to those remarks and his entire sort of strategy rhetorically skyrocketed after an [33:17] airplane was shot down in Iran. So certainly the fact that they have found that crewman is a huge [33:22] political win for him. But there is still substantial political risk. Because to your question, [33:27] this is a very unpopular war. There's still some support within his base for it. But polling shows [33:33] that Americans writ large do not. [33:35] So this is still a timeline, the two to three week conversation more rooted in perhaps economic [33:41] considerations and military goals, at least based on your report? [33:43] He is under significant pressure because of the gasoline prices being up. It also has taken away, [33:48] speaking of rhetoric, a talking point that he's been very happy to use for the last year and a half, [33:53] saying that he's responsible for having brought prices down. Now he is clearly responsible for [33:58] having brought prices up. And that's something that Americans will think about when they go to the polls. [34:02] So, Amy, this was supposed to be the year of affordability for the White House and Republicans. [34:06] It's not really, at least that's not the focus right now. I mean, our polling, for example, [34:12] 84 percent of Republicans are still with him on this war, but nearly 70 percent of independents [34:17] disapprove of military action. This is all, I mean, it's April. [34:21] This is all churning up. [34:22] Churning towards trouble in November, right? [34:24] Yes. Now, look, it is only April. So we still have time for this to move its way through the [34:31] process. And it is true that the president now is looking at his lowest approval ratings [34:36] of his second term this week. And a lot of that is driven by the fact that he's lost the sort of [34:43] strong support from Republicans. I don't think Republicans have left him. I just think that they [34:49] are feeling very dispirited. And that is what gets Republicans the most nervous, is intensity and [34:56] enthusiasm. Democrats are fired up. Republicans are not. If that continues as we move through [35:04] this electoral season, that's when things get really bad for the Republican Party in November. [35:10] David, this rescue operation is successful, elaborate, and was executed in under 48 hours. [35:18] But what do you make of it and what we've heard from the president this morning? A bunch of language [35:22] we can't repeat on broadcast television. [35:24] So first, we should all celebrate the fact that they've got both these crewmen. It's a miracle, [35:30] and it's an equal miracle that you could put hundreds of troops in to get them out and no casualties [35:36] there. We've lost six aircraft in the past couple of days. They can be replaced or repaired, [35:45] but the fact of the matter is that that tells you there's accelerating risk here. [35:50] And if you took the president's threat this morning to go after bridges and go after the electric grid, [35:58] we'll set aside for a moment, Ed, the fact that these would probably be war crimes under the Geneva [36:03] Convention. The White House will argue it wasn't because it also feeds the military. [36:08] If you set that aside, the fact remains that the president still finds himself in a box here. [36:15] He's trying to open up the strait. That was a problem that got created after the war started. [36:21] He has not really explained how he's going to deal with the nuclear material, [36:25] the near bomb-grade material. He said that was a reason to go in. This past week, he said, [36:30] oh, I don't really care about it that much. It's buried deep. We'll watch it on satellite. [36:34] Well, we were watching it on satellite before the war started, right? And I know he says there's [36:41] been regime change, but we haven't seen much regime change here. We have just seen the change of [36:46] personnel. So he's got a lot of things to go accomplish if he's going to get out of this and be [36:52] able to claim to those voters that he got something out of this. Well, and more to that point, [36:57] the budget that he put forward this week is spending so much more money on the military [37:05] than on domestic priorities. One and a half trillion dollars. [37:09] That's right. That cuts against everything. If you're saying we need to make life more affordable, [37:14] our number one priority is to make life more affordable for Americans. To release a budget [37:19] that increases money only for the military and then cuts domestic programs is not a great pitch. [37:26] And he made that astounding comment that because the federal government should only be focused on [37:30] military protection, the state should pay for Medicare, Medicaid and daycare. And it was caught [37:35] on camera probably coming to campaign ads near us soon. I was just going to say, you know how both [37:40] Republicans and Democrats hear a quote that they think, oh, that's going to be the lead of my next [37:45] campaign ad. That's one for Democrats. And he risks, he's not just losing some Dems, certainly [37:51] and independence going into this election. But he's testing the tolerance of his base. I was at CPAC [37:57] a little over a week ago. And there were a lot of grassroots supporters there who said, [38:02] we still support President Trump. We still support this war. But there were certainly some who were [38:06] started to question it. And we've also seen quite a bit of division at the leader level of MAGA and [38:12] Republicans. And that messaging sinks down to the base as well. [38:16] In our remaining moments, Amy, I want to start with you. You heard Governor Moore, [38:20] more than happy to criticize the war effort, but failed to provide any specifics on what [38:25] he'd do differently. And that, while Republicans are in a bit of a pickle this year, Democrats aren't [38:31] much liked for that very reason. This is what's going to be fascinating. This [38:33] 2028 election cycle that we are very close to bumping into, believe it or not, is going to be the [38:40] first election in 10 years where Donald Trump is not the centerpiece of it or where candidates should, [38:47] would do well to not make Donald Trump the centerpiece of it. I think Americans are looking for, [38:51] for both parties, an idea of who these parties are, what they stand for, what they're going to do for [38:56] me, rather than how they're going to fit into a world that Trump has really dominated politically [39:01] for the last many, many years. Yeah, I gave him credit for the idea. [39:05] I was intrigued by that buckets theory that he had, but he clearly couldn't fill it. Well, yeah. [39:09] And that's part of the problem. This is what, and this is, we're at this place and you know [39:13] because you're going to be at a lot of these games. This is spring training for politicians [39:16] right now, and this is how they get their swings in. In our remaining minute, David, I'd be remiss [39:21] if we didn't mention today the ouster of Army Chief of Staff, General Randy George, [39:26] essentially pushed out by Pete Hegseth. What is removing someone like him due to the officer ranks [39:33] and to the rank and file overall? So I think what surprised people is the degree to which [39:37] Secretary Hegseth has reached way down into the system. And the split with Randy George was in part [39:44] over Hegseth's insistence that they not promote two black and two women candidates for a one-star [39:53] general. Yeah. Very rare you'd see anybody get into that. Just one last quick point on your interesting [39:59] interview with Governor Moore. What I think Democrats have to get their heads around now [40:05] is what are they going to say about Iran? Can we leave nuclear material there? What are they going [40:12] to say about the priorities of a president who has not emphasized China, which we have been told [40:18] is the existential political and economic and technological competitor? And we haven't heard [40:24] that from them yet. We have not. We will wait to hear from them about that in the coming months. [40:29] Thank you all for being here. We have to go to the moon next. So, well, kind of. We'll explain in a [40:35] moment. Stay with us. This morning, the Artemis II crew is closer to the moon than ever before. [40:44] Here's a look at the exterior of the Orion capsule this morning. The four astronauts inside are prepping [40:49] a six-hour flyby around the far side of the moon tomorrow. For an update, we go now to NASA [40:55] Administrator Jared Isaacman, who is inside Houston's Mission Control. Administrator, thank you so much for [41:00] being here with us. The four astronauts on board are roughly halfway through their mission now. [41:06] What, in your view, is the most critical moment of the next 24 to 48 hours? [41:11] Well, I would say, and first, good morning. Happy Easter, Ed. The primary objective right now [41:17] for this phase of the mission is continuing to gather data from the ECOS system, the life support [41:22] system on the Orion spacecraft. This is the first time we've ever had humans on board the Orion spacecraft. [41:28] We want to gather as much data as we possibly can for that. Of course, there's various science [41:32] experiments. There's lunar observations. But learning as much as we can about Orion is critically [41:37] important because Artemis III is a year away. That's where we're going to test the same spacecraft [41:42] with our lunar landers, followed up in 2028 by Artemis IV, where we're going to use this spacecraft, [41:48] transfer crew to the landers, and put American astronauts back on the surface of the moon. [41:52] You make a good point. This is a test mission, and it's testing as much the vessel that they're [41:59] in as much as what they're looking for. But they are going to have to spend some time on Monday [42:03] essentially looking out the windows and looking for parts of the moon that we essentially have [42:08] not really seen before. What specifically are they looking for? [42:12] Well, I would have to say after a 250,000-mile journey away from Earth to the far side of the moon, [42:19] it would be pretty hard to keep them away from those windows. But they absolutely have observation [42:24] responsibilities on that. They have a series of different cameras. They're going to get data [42:29] from that for sure. They've actually had an opportunity for three and a half years to train [42:33] for this mission, to work with our scientists on the information they would like to gather [42:37] most about the far side of the moon. But all of this comes together to inform subsequent missions [42:42] like Artemis III, but most importantly now Artemis IV, which is where we're going to actually get [42:46] those astronauts back on the surface. Yeah, to your point, you want to land [42:50] one and possibly two missions on the moon just two years from now. NASA hired SpaceX and Blue Origin [42:56] to build the lunar landers that will deliver astronauts to the surface of the moon. What [43:00] are you doing to ensure that at least one of those two companies is going to be ready to do that? [43:05] Well, I'll tell you, we're doing a lot of things different over the last couple months, right? [43:09] I mean, President Trump gave me a national space policy that called for America's return to the moon [43:13] with frequency to establish an enduring presence to build the moon base and do other exciting things [43:18] like nuclear power and propulsion. And we got $10 billion worth of resources out of the one big, [43:23] beautiful bill, the Working Family Tax Cutted Act. Now we are actually going to work. We are taking [43:28] NASA subject matter experts and we are embedding them across the supply chain, every prime contractor, [43:33] subcontractor, every component on the critical path from the rocket itself to the landers, to the suits [43:39] that astronauts will need to wear on the surface of the moon. And we are driving outcomes. We are not [43:44] going to be passive anymore. We're not going to let budgets, you know, get over budget or behind [43:48] schedule, not when there's so much at stake when it comes to America's return to the moon. So we are [43:53] driving outcomes and that certainly includes the lunar landers. Quickly then, how does a budget, [43:59] proposed budget cut of more than 20% potentially affect these plans? Yeah, so I certainly support President [44:06] Trump and his 2027 budget request. Look, we have 26 appropriations. We have $10 billion in supplemental [44:13] funding that came out of President Trump's signature legislation, the Working Family Tax Cut Act. I mean, [44:19] this is the biggest, you know, supplemental investment in NASA since the Kennedy era. [44:23] These resources are the only reason we can accelerate production to get to the moon, to add a mission in [44:28] 27, which is Artemis III, to build the moon base and do all the other things like launching the first [44:34] interplanetary nuclear-powered spacecraft in 2028 that's going to go past Mars, release a bunch [44:40] of copters and a whole lot of other science missions. I think the American public and the [44:44] taxpayers should be judging NASA based on outcomes and not how quickly we can spend money every year. [44:49] In 20 seconds or less, as they pass on the other side of the moon tomorrow for about 40 minutes, [44:54] what's going to, what are you going to be thinking about as the astronauts do that? [44:58] Well, I got to tell you, people have been asking me questions about the, you know, [45:02] the loss of comms as we go around the moon. That is something we're very used to in space flight. [45:07] Mission control is used to that. Astronauts are used to that as they go through training. So [45:10] less about the loss of comm on the far side of the moon. I'm always going to be thinking about [45:13] the life support systems on the vehicle because it's a test mission. But I'll tell you, most importantly, [45:18] I'm thinking about the thermal protection systems and when these astronauts are under parachute [45:22] safely in the water so we can get back to their families. Administrator Jared Isaacman in Houston, [45:27] thank you so much for joining us on this Easter Sunday. We appreciate it. And that is it for us [45:31] today. Thank you for watching. Margaret will be back next Sunday. Until then, for Face the Nation, I'm Ed O'Keefe.