Full Interview: Reps. Adriano Espaillat and Carlos Gimenez

[0:01] We turn now to Democratic Congressman Adriano Espallado of New York and Republican Congressman [0:05] Carlos Jimenez of Florida. [0:08] Congressman both of you, thank you for joining us. [0:10] I want to start with you, Congressman Jimenez. [0:12] You were almost seven years old when your family fled from Cuba at the start of the Castro [0:18] regime. [0:19] What do you remember about those early days in Florida? [0:21] Well, I remember that we all went to one house. [0:28] My uncle, my aunt were kind enough to take us in. [0:32] There were about 21 people in that house. [0:36] And I remember vividly my first day going to school. [0:41] The day before, I went to a, you know, they took me to a parochial school. [0:46] And then the nun saying that tomorrow was my first day of school, that was my first word [0:50] in English. [0:51] Until then, I only spoke Spanish. [0:54] And so that I vividly remember. [0:55] And then the early days there, it's like a blur, obviously, you know. [1:01] But, yeah, it was completely different than my experiences had been in Cuba. [1:08] And Congressman Espallado, as I understand it, you were about nine when you came to the United [1:13] States from the Dominican Republic. [1:15] I imagine New York City was a bit different back then. [1:17] Of course, the weather was cold, obviously. [1:23] I remember the cold weather. [1:25] We lived with our grandparents who had a four and a half bedroom apartment in Washington [1:31] Heights. [1:33] And we got there in December. [1:36] And of course, we went to school. [1:38] I remember sitting in the back of the classroom for a year or more, not knowing really a word [1:45] of English. [1:46] But surely and slowly, we acclimated, and here we are. [1:51] Do either of you remember your parents ever explaining why they wanted to become Americans? [1:59] Yeah, my grandmother was the first one to become a U.S. citizen. [2:03] And she was so proud of it. [2:06] And I remember that she spoke about it, about how great this nation is and how it gave us [2:12] a new opportunity of moving forward. [2:15] And she was really proud of becoming an American citizen. [2:19] And I think it translated then back down to all of us. [2:23] And Congressman Jimenez? [2:24] Well, I mean, I was seven years old. [2:28] I mean, my dad and mom weren't talking politics back then. [2:32] But then later on, obviously, as I was growing up, I knew exactly why we came to the United [2:37] States. [2:38] We came to the United States. [2:39] My parents were seeking freedom, not only for themselves, but for us, his children, my [2:44] sister and I, to give us the opportunity to live in a land of freedom. [2:48] I recall one day I asked him, hey, why is it that we came to the United States a little [2:52] bit older? [2:53] And he told me a story about how I had come home. [2:57] And I had asked him a question. [2:59] And to him, it felt like we were being indoctrinated into communism. [3:05] And he decided right then and there that we had to leave because he wanted to give, like [3:11] I said, my sister and I, the opportunity and the freedom that the United States gave him, [3:18] my mother and then us, that's the reason why we came to the United States. [3:24] HARI SREENIVASAN, And now both of you are in positions of influence and power as members [3:28] of Congress. [3:29] And there are, of course, all sorts of issues facing the United States Congress and the [3:33] country overall. [3:34] And one of them, of course, continues to be immigration. [3:36] We saw in recent days the Supreme Court issue a few decisions regarding immigration. [3:41] I wanted to start with the one regarding birthright citizenship. [3:44] The justices said that that is, in fact, guaranteed in the Constitution. [3:49] The White House, however, isn't entirely backing off the fight. [3:52] The deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, claimed American citizenship isn't the birthright [3:57] of the world. [3:58] It belongs only and solely to Americans. [4:02] I'm curious, and, Congressman Jimenez, we can start with you. [4:04] How do you define American citizenship, or how do you define what it means to be an American? [4:11] REP. [4:12] REP. [4:13] I'm an American. [4:14] I mean, I've been here, you know, the vast majority of my life, I think, in English. [4:20] And I love this country. [4:21] I love this country because of the opportunities and the freedom that it's given me and my family, [4:28] my children, my grandchildren. [4:31] And so I have a deep appreciation of what America and the United States, you know, are. [4:36] I agreed with the Supreme Court interpretation. [4:40] It's actually pretty well established in law for about 130 years. [4:43] I also agree, though, that some things, you know, we need to do some things in Congress [4:48] about this cottage industry of, you know, childbirth citizenship, bringing, you know, mothers in [4:54] just to have a child in the United States and then them flying back. [4:57] The founding fathers or the writers of the 14th Amendment, I don't think ever had that in mind. [5:02] And so that's something that we can fix. [5:04] But if somebody is born here in the United States and they're under the jurisdiction of the United States, [5:09] which if you're here, unless you're a diplomat, you're under the jurisdiction of the United States, [5:13] that's the law. [5:14] And so, you know, I always felt that that challenge, you know, really was going to fail. [5:22] And, you know, I was I was proven right. [5:24] But we do have to Congress does have to fix some of the things to make it more difficult [5:30] for somebody just to come to the United States to have a child, to have an American citizen. [5:34] I think that's abusing the system. [5:36] Congressman Espaya. [5:40] Well, the birthright citizenship is embedded, obviously, in the 14th Amendment. [5:46] And the Supreme Court just stated that, although a very tight decision. [5:53] But it's been handed down to us. [5:56] The Wong Kim Ark case back in the late 1800s established that if you were born here, you [6:03] were a U.S. citizen. [6:05] And birthright tourism is minuscule. [6:08] It's almost nonexistent in terms of the volume of cases of people that are born here. [6:15] 250,000 children would have been impacted yearly by had the decision gone the other way. [6:22] But citizenship for me and being an American is opportunity. [6:27] I dream in English and in Spanish. [6:32] What a great opportunity that is for anybody in this nation to have a shot [6:38] at moving forward and to live within the parameters of what this nation offers, millions of people. [6:46] What a great nation. [6:47] Still has hope and opportunity. [6:50] Both of you represent areas where there are many people under temporary protected status. [6:55] But the Supreme Court in recent days also ruled that about 356,000 or so people from Haiti [7:01] and Syria are going to lose their TPS. [7:05] And that decision, of course, follows the Trump administration's decision to cancel their [7:09] temporary legal protections. [7:11] The court did say, however, that it's up to the Homeland Security secretary to decide whether [7:15] or not to grant someone status or end it. [7:18] This issue is perhaps most acute in South Florida given the Haitian community, Congressman Jimenez. [7:22] I'm curious, what should the secretary do? [7:24] What should the administration do now with these hundreds of thousands of people? [7:27] Well, I think in the case of Haiti, without a doubt, you know, Haiti is a failed state. [7:33] And I think that deporting Haitians that are under TPS right now back to Haiti would be a huge mistake. [7:39] I mean, that's the reason why TPS was established to begin with. [7:42] Just like with Venezuelans, if Venezuelans lose their TPS status, which they have, too, [7:47] we should reinstate that because of the devastation caused by these earthquakes that happened last week. [7:54] And so, you know, TPS should be, should not be abused. [7:59] TPS is what it says, temporary protective status. [8:02] And if you're here for a number of years, you should change your status from TPS to something else. [8:07] But by the same token, it is meant to safeguard those that are fleeing countries which are either failed states [8:15] and there would be at risk of going back to them or countries that really can't handle them right now, [8:19] as the case of Venezuela, who has, you know, suffered a natural disaster [8:25] and is having a hard time just maintaining the people that are there. [8:29] And so, look, TPS, again, is temporary, but when there's good cause for it, it needs to be granted. [8:39] And I think there's a good argument for the people of Venezuela and the people of Haiti to have temporary protective status. [8:46] Is there any kind of congressional pressure, Congressman Espaiat, that should be put on the administration [8:51] to try to stop them from sending back either Haitians, Venezuelans, Syrians, [8:56] any of these other people who've come from countries with either natural or political strife? [9:01] Of course, it would be horrible that you send back people to a condition that doesn't safeguard their lives. [9:12] I mean, TPS really is offered to people that are in a country where there's a credible fear for their life [9:18] or where a natural disaster has occurred or their life may be in danger [9:24] because the government wants to incarcerate them or harm them. [9:29] And so, obviously, sending them back to a country that is run by gangs is horrible. [9:36] Sending them back to Venezuela, given the conditions they are right now after the earthquake, [9:41] is also equally troubling. [9:43] So, we must put all pressures available to ensure that they're not set back [9:51] and that the mystique of our nation is preserved, [9:54] which is that this is a land that will provide some help and cover and harbor those that are in dire need of help [10:03] because of a natural disaster, because of a dictatorship that wants to incarcerate them or kill them. [10:09] So, that's what America is about, and I'm happy that we can continue to advocate for this aspect of America. [10:16] You know, listening to you two over the last few minutes, I hear a lot of agreement in many ways. [10:21] But you're among, you know, you're proud members of your party, [10:26] and they have bickered for years over this issue. [10:29] And we could spend the whole hour debating immigration. [10:32] We won't. [10:33] But given your work and experience on this, given what you know about your constituents [10:36] and where you guys have come from, what might be the easiest, fastest, bipartisan fix Congress could make [10:44] to deal with immigration? [10:45] And in this case, Congressman Espio, let me begin with you. [10:50] I believe very strongly that it should be bipartisan. [10:54] And, of course, there are three particular items that I think are easy to fix. [10:58] Dreamers is one of them. [11:00] These are young people that came here when they were one, two years old. [11:03] Many of them don't speak the language of their homeland or have no connections whatsoever [11:08] with the country where they were born. [11:11] Yet there are Americans, but for one thing, their green card. [11:14] It's a fixed number of them. [11:16] Most people agree that they should be let in. [11:19] They should be allowed to stay here. [11:21] So regularizing them is one. [11:23] Farm workers, many of whom are not going to the fields to work because they're afraid [11:28] they're going to be arrested and deported. [11:30] We need them. [11:31] And then keeping families together is important because a family that's divided, that's fractured, [11:37] is a weak family, and many weak families make up a weak nation. [11:42] So these are three items, dreamers, farm workers, and keeping families together. [11:48] And, of course, TPS is part of keeping families together. [11:52] Congressman Jimenez, any of those on your list? [11:55] Look, I agree with a lot of what the congressman has said. [11:59] And the problem that we have, look, the problem, the problem of immigration got exacerbated [12:04] because we, the open borders that we had during the Biden years. [12:09] And you had millions and millions of people coming into the United States, [12:12] and it really drove the issue of immigration, you know, home. [12:16] And I thought we were getting closer to some kind of a solution until that happened. [12:20] And the borders are now closed. [12:22] And I've always said that once you, once you secure the borders, [12:25] then we can have an honest debate about the people that are here, [12:28] the immigrants that are here. [12:30] Those are undocumented. [12:31] And I think that we can reach a solution. [12:33] I think there was, there are plenty of people with plenty of ideas. [12:36] The problem was that because of what happened in the last four years, [12:40] you couldn't even talk about it because you had to control the borders. [12:42] Well, the borders are in control now. [12:44] And I think we need to pass something that says, look, [12:47] you're just not going to have open borders. [12:49] But now, now we have to deal with the people that are here. [12:52] I don't think anybody wants criminals to be here. [12:54] I don't think anybody wants gang members to be here. [12:56] I think that people with active deportation orders, yeah, okay. [12:59] But those that have been here for years, DACA is a great example of that, okay. [13:04] And those that have been here for years that have been working, [13:08] are part of the community, that are part of the economy, [13:11] we need to find a way to normalize them. [13:15] It doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be citizens at the end of the day, [13:19] but to normalize them so that they can come out of the shadows, pay taxes, [13:24] and then, you know, live their life without having, you know, [13:26] fear of somebody coming up and taking them away after 20-something years [13:31] and separating from their children that they've had during that time. [13:35] And so we have to find a solution. [13:38] I think that the solution could be bipartisan, [13:40] but it also seems, you know, when the Democrats were in control, [13:45] it wasn't, it didn't happen. [13:46] When we were in control, it didn't happen. [13:48] It's got to happen. [13:50] We've got, we've got to stop kicking this can down the road. [13:54] We've got to have the debate. [13:56] Everything, you know, whatever comes out of it, [13:58] I'm sure, you know, the Democrats won't like 100% of it. [14:01] The Republicans won't like 100% of it. [14:03] And if that's the case, if that's the final solution, [14:05] it's probably the good solution. [14:06] You know, nobody's going to be 100% happy. [14:09] And we can't always, [14:10] the one final thing is, [14:12] we can't solve the problem for 100% of the people. [14:16] And so we can solve the problem for 90% of the people. [14:19] I think we need to make that effort. [14:20] And then, you know, the other 10%, you know, [14:22] we'll work that out later. [14:24] But we need to find a solution to the issue of immigration. [14:28] I do at least hear the two of you saying perhaps the issue of Dreamers, [14:32] those young people, many of whom now are in their 40s [14:35] because they've been waiting for so long [14:36] and have children of their own, might be the easiest fix. [14:39] We'll see if that happens anytime soon. [14:40] Obviously, with the elections coming, it may not. [14:42] In our remaining moments in, Congressman Jimenez, [14:44] you've got the first word, [14:46] so we'll give Congressman Esperi out the last word. [14:47] So we'll start with you. [14:49] What is your message to someone, perhaps, Congressman Jimenez, [14:53] that is on the outside looking in, [14:56] who might want to come to the United States and build a better life? [15:00] What would be your message to them? [15:02] My message is to do it the right way. [15:05] There are, you know, thousands of immigrants [15:07] that are allowed into the United States every single year. [15:10] Go to your, you know, in your country, [15:13] go to the embassy, the consulate, et cetera, you know, [15:16] and sign up to immigrate into the United States. [15:18] Do it the right way. [15:19] And then you will be welcome with open arms. [15:23] There's a lot of skills that we need here still in the United States, [15:28] even though we want to make sure that Americans get those jobs. [15:31] But sometimes, you know, you do need skills from outside. [15:33] And by the way, it's not a bad thing to get new ideas, [15:37] new perspectives coming into the United States from all around the world [15:40] because that's what makes America the greatest country in the world. [15:44] We don't have uniformity of thought. [15:46] We have diversity of thought. [15:49] We have diversity of talents from many countries around the world. [15:52] And that's what made America great. [15:54] And that will continue to make America the greatest country in the world. [15:58] And Congressman Espaya? [15:58] This nation, as we celebrate the 250th anniversary, still has promise. [16:08] And I think immigration has been a central part of our ability to move forward as a nation. [16:16] So I ask those that want to come to our nation that bring your ideas, bring your innovativeness, bring your talents, bring your energy, [16:25] the energy that has displayed itself throughout decades and throughout our history. [16:30] There's been no period in American history that has not been pushed by immigration forward. [16:38] Even in our most difficult times, it is the influx of new ideas and new energy that makes our country different. [16:47] And, of course, this is a great experiment. [16:49] And everybody wants to come to America. [16:52] Do it the right way. [16:54] There are channels through which you can do it. [16:56] And we will continue to welcome people from all over the world. [17:01] This is a nation that still has a lot to offer. [17:05] It's still relatively a very young nation and one that I think has a lot of promise towards the future. [17:11] I'm happy that my parents, my grandparents, who were both factory workers, brought us here to America. [17:20] What a great promise. [17:21] What a great nation. [17:23] Congressman Espaya out of New York, Congressman Jimenez of Florida, [17:25] thank you both for agreeing to speak with us this holiday weekend. [17:28] We appreciate it. [17:29] And Face the Nation, we'll be back in one minute. [17:31] Stay with us.