Full Interview: NCAA President Charlie Baker

[0:00] Charlie Baker, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. [0:03] You know, college athletics has changed dramatically in just a few years [0:07] with athletes now able to earn money and schools directly sharing revenue. [0:11] Earlier this year, you said the NCAA is in the middle of its biggest transformation in decades. [0:16] What did you mean by that? [0:19] Well, if you think about the 100 years plus of the NCAA, [0:23] the three biggest things that have happened, in my view, were the creation of it [0:27] almost a little over 100 years ago. [0:30] The Title IX, which completely changed the playing field with respect to women's sports, [0:35] and this, which was the first time you could have actual revenue sharing [0:40] beyond sort of scholarship support and other kinds of academic support [0:44] and that sort of thing for student-athletes. [0:46] And I say to people all the time that you can't go through a change that's this big [0:51] and not expect a lot of bumps along the way. [0:53] And we certainly have plenty of those, [0:56] but as the first person who actually made a proposal around school-based revenue sharing [1:00] shortly after I got this job back in 2023, I think it's a good thing. [1:05] Is it messy? Yes. [1:07] Could it have been less messy? Maybe. [1:10] But when you go through something like this on this kind of scale, [1:13] where you're talking about a billion dollars [1:15] potentially going out to student-athletes every year, [1:18] it's going to be challenging. [1:21] And as a result, it has been. [1:23] Now, sports, and particularly college sports, as you've mentioned here, [1:27] are becoming so lucrative and the subject of such great controversy and conversation [1:33] that Congress has now stepped in, as you know. [1:36] You're supportive of the bipartisan Protect College Sports Act [1:39] because it establishes national standards on the name, image, and likeness program [1:44] for student-athletes because it limits player transfers [1:48] and makes other changes that are designed to be equitable, [1:52] at least in the legislation, across college athletics. [1:55] But you know several of the largest athletic conferences [1:58] take issue with this legislation. [2:00] So as Washington continues debating it, [2:02] why do you think it's necessary? [2:03] Why do you think it's worth passing? [2:07] Well, first of all, I want to say how much I appreciate the work [2:09] that senators Cantwell and Cruz and their colleagues have done on this. [2:12] I mean, you can tell just by looking at the legislation [2:15] where they both gave up big things that mattered to them [2:18] in pursuit of something that was a bill that could be supported by both sides. [2:22] In this day and age, honestly, you know, [2:24] having spent a bunch of my career in public life, [2:27] I know how hard that is to do, and I appreciate it. [2:30] But if you were to say to me, you know, [2:32] is the eligibility system that we currently have working? [2:35] I mean, if everybody would comply with it [2:36] and stay out of the courts, maybe, but they don't, [2:39] there is no agent regulation, which is a huge problem. [2:43] You talk to any student athlete about that [2:45] and any school about it, they'll tell you that. [2:46] This provides some regulatory structure around agents. [2:50] It also deals with all the state preemption issues. [2:53] You know, you've got 40 different states [2:54] with 40 different rules around how NIL should work, [2:57] which makes it virtually impossible to set a national standard. [3:00] You also have the elements associated with dealing with [3:04] how we're going to handle some of the issues around NIL, [3:07] which you mentioned, and again, you know, for all of this, [3:10] what we're really trying to achieve [3:11] is some sort of national framework [3:13] so that you can have national championships [3:17] and national competitions in which, [3:19] for all intents and purposes, [3:20] everybody's playing by the same set of rules. [3:23] Now, I understand some of the concerns [3:25] that the Big Ten and the SEC in particular [3:28] have raised with the bill. [3:29] We have some concerns with the bill, too, [3:30] but to simply walk away from something [3:33] that deals with a number of the most significant challenges [3:37] that face college sports at that point in time, [3:41] in my view, would be a mistake. [3:42] And I've spent time talking to folks [3:44] in all of the power conferences [3:46] and the rest of Division I and Division II [3:48] and Division III about this, [3:49] and my message to them has been, [3:50] look, these folks crafted a bipartisan bill. [3:54] Really hard to do. [3:55] Does everybody love everything about it? [3:57] No. [3:58] Is the process associated with crafting it done? [4:01] Also no. [4:02] So let's take seriously this opportunity [4:04] to support the process, support the effort, [4:07] support the parts of the bill that we believe in, [4:09] and then continue to try and work with folks in the Senate [4:11] and hopefully ultimately folks in the House [4:14] to create something that we can all get behind. [4:17] You know, there are a host of issues [4:19] we could dive into regarding this. [4:22] I guess I want to start with the fact that, [4:25] you know, by allowing the NIL [4:29] and allowing schools to directly share revenue, [4:33] you are seeing different Division I programs [4:36] in other sports other than football and basketball, [4:39] which are the biggest, get cut. [4:40] Things like volleyball, track and field, [4:42] a lot of the Olympic sports, [4:43] and there's been a lot of concern about that. [4:45] What does this legislation do? [4:47] What's the NCAA doing to ensure that [4:50] while all the money is going into football, [4:52] basketball, lacrosse, maybe to some extent, [4:55] volleyball, women's volleyball to some extent, [4:56] but all those other sports, [4:58] what do you want to protect those [4:59] and ensure that athletes who want to participate in those [5:02] will still be able to do so? [5:05] Well, first of all, [5:06] the idea that sports are being cut [5:10] only tells half the story, [5:13] because at the same time certain sports may be being cut, [5:15] other sports are being introduced. [5:17] If you look at the number of kids [5:19] who are playing sports right now in Division I, [5:22] and you look at the number that are playing [5:23] in Division II and Division III, [5:25] they're basically at pretty close to all-time highs. [5:28] And there are certainly more kids playing in college sports now [5:32] than there were when I got this job three years ago. [5:35] No one ever writes about or talks about [5:37] or promotes the sports that get added. [5:39] They only talk about, which I understand, [5:41] having come out of politics myself, [5:43] about the sports that get cut. [5:45] And I think one of the things we can do [5:48] and have done by dealing with all the issues [5:52] that were associated with this issue around revenue sharing, [5:55] which, again, I supported soon after I got the job, [5:58] I think we've created a mechanism [6:01] that limits a lot of what would have been future potential risk [6:04] that was far more dramatic [6:06] than actually solving this problem, [6:08] creating a process and a structure and moving forward. [6:10] I also think the investments that the schools are making [6:15] in many of the Olympic sports are real. [6:17] And I've visited a bunch of those campuses, [6:19] and I've talked to a lot of the schools [6:20] that are some of the biggest players [6:22] in the Olympic sports movement, [6:24] and they believe those are huge parts of their brand. [6:27] It's huge parts of how they excite their alumni. [6:29] It's huge parts of how they create community on campus. [6:33] And by the way, it's also a huge part [6:35] of how we do well in the Olympics. [6:37] I mean, our Olympians Made Here program, [6:40] which we ran in conjunction with the networks [6:42] that sponsored and supported [6:43] the 2024 Winter and Summer Olympics, [6:47] were unbelievable in terms of the visibility [6:52] and the attention they brought [6:53] to the role that schools play in Olympic sports. [6:56] Should we pay attention to this? [6:57] Yes, we track all this stuff every quarter [6:59] with respect to ads and subtracts [7:01] with regard to sports that are being made available [7:04] and sports that are being reduced. [7:06] But I think the idea that somehow there's a crisis here, [7:10] I don't buy it, first of all. [7:13] And secondly, I think the legislation [7:16] does deal with this in a variety of ways. [7:20] I happen to think there are better ways to deal with it, [7:22] and it's an important issue, [7:23] and we're going to continue to talk [7:24] to folks in the Senate about that. [7:27] But I think this notion that somehow paying [7:30] or providing revenue sharing to kids [7:33] and high-revenue sports, of which, frankly, [7:35] there's really only two, football [7:36] and some basketball programs, [7:39] people need to remember that football [7:41] and men's basketball, for the most part, [7:44] supports all the other programs [7:46] that schools make available, [7:47] especially in Division I. [7:49] And that is not an insignificant issue [7:53] when you think about this. [7:54] I believe that at the end of the day, [7:56] the best way to deal with it [7:57] is treat the sports [7:58] that generate significant amounts of revenue [8:01] appropriately, right, [8:03] and make sure there is this opportunity [8:05] to share revenue, [8:06] and then track and pay attention [8:07] to what's going on everywhere else. [8:09] I'd also point out we've raised $300 million [8:11] in new revenue since I got this job, [8:13] and a big piece of it has gone to pay off [8:15] some of the legal settlements [8:18] that I inherited when I got the job, [8:21] which means schools don't have to pay those, [8:23] which is a good thing. [8:24] Right. [8:24] Let's work through some other things. [8:26] In recent days, the U.S. Supreme Court [8:28] decided to let states determine [8:30] whether or not to allow transgender athletes [8:32] to participate in sports. [8:33] Last year, the NCAA changed its policy [8:35] to align with the president's executive order [8:38] threatening to revoke federal funding [8:39] for schools that permitted transgender athletes. [8:41] The NCAA changed its policy in part, [8:44] saying it provides a clear national standard. [8:46] In light of the high court's ruling, [8:49] do you foresee the NCAA having to tweak [8:51] its transgender athletes' policy? [8:55] I don't think so. [8:56] I mean, generally speaking, [8:57] we try to establish policies [8:58] from most of our programs [9:01] that can hopefully have a national standard to it. [9:05] I had said to folks, Democrats and Republicans, [9:07] in Washington after I got this job [9:09] that we needed some sort of clarity [9:12] around what the national standard for this would be, [9:15] and we adopted and comply with the standard [9:18] that was put forth by the Trump administration. [9:20] I think what happens at the state level [9:22] is a different question, [9:24] although I do think our national standard [9:26] is going to be what we expect our schools to use [9:28] with respect to eligibility issues for college sports. [9:33] But obviously, different states will have different standards [9:35] about how to deal with high school and youth sports. [9:37] You know that this has become [9:38] a popular political and campaign issue, [9:41] especially in Washington or out on a campaign trail, [9:43] but you told Congress in late 2024 [9:45] that of the 500,000 student-athletes [9:47] attending NCAA schools, [9:49] fewer than 10 were openly transgender. [9:52] Where does this issue rank [9:55] in terms of the critical ones facing the NCAA? [10:00] Well, from my point of view, [10:01] the most important thing about it [10:02] is to have a clear policy [10:03] and to have one that's consistent with federal policy, [10:06] because that eliminates sort of all the gray [10:09] with respect to how this should be dealt with [10:11] or how it should be treated. [10:12] But I can tell you that having talked to people [10:14] on both sides of this issue, [10:15] to those who are involved in it, it matters a lot. [10:19] And I'm glad that the federal government gave us [10:21] something we've been seeking for several years, [10:23] which was a clear standard [10:24] with respect to how to apply this. [10:27] Inclusivity is one of the main priorities of the NCAA. [10:30] Do you think this policy [10:32] makes the NCAA inclusive enough? [10:38] Yeah, I do. [10:39] I mean, I think the public, [10:40] there's plenty of science [10:41] and plenty of debate and discussion about this, [10:43] and reasonable people can disagree. [10:45] But I don't believe that this change [10:48] at the federal level, [10:49] which did create clarity for us around this issue, [10:51] steps us back at all from our policies [10:54] with respect to inclusivity and participation. [10:56] You know, if you're a transgender woman [10:59] who is assigned birth as male at birth, [11:03] you can participate in what we call the open network, [11:06] which means playing basically in men's sports. [11:08] And I don't have a problem [11:11] with the way that policy currently operates. [11:15] And frankly, I don't think many of our schools do either. [11:18] We've seen conference realignment in recent years [11:21] really reshape the map of college football, especially. [11:24] You've got teams in the east now playing, [11:26] teams in the west they would have never played before. [11:28] You've got teams in the southeast [11:29] traveling all the way to California for games. [11:32] Do you get a sense [11:33] whether we're nearing the end of realignment or not? [11:36] You know, the real question there is, you know, [11:42] when does everybody's TV contracts come up? [11:46] And what will that mean with respect [11:47] to how they get negotiated at that point in time? [11:50] Because everybody's obviously living [11:51] with the terms and conditions associated with those. [11:54] I will say this, [11:55] that most of the conversation I've heard among schools, [11:59] at least at the Division I level, [12:01] is whether they should try and figure out some way [12:03] to create a more regional approach [12:05] to sports other than football, right? [12:07] Because football is, depending upon the conference [12:10] and the league and the program, [12:11] somewhere between 11 and 14 games in a season. [12:15] Whereas you have many other sports, [12:18] men's and women's sports, [12:19] where you play literally 30, 40, 50, 60 games. [12:22] And I think the conversation [12:24] that people have started to have [12:26] is whether or not there's a way [12:27] to think a little differently [12:28] about how to schedule the football stuff [12:30] than the way you schedule [12:32] some of these other sports. [12:34] Because in some of the other, [12:35] you know, football's once a week, right? [12:36] And it's usually over a weekend. [12:39] A lot of these other sports, [12:40] you're playing midweek, [12:41] you're playing over the weekends. [12:44] In those sports, the travel question [12:47] becomes, I think, a much bigger challenge [12:49] and a bigger issue than it is. [12:50] Are you suggesting there's some kind [12:52] of college football league [12:54] separate from all the other athletics? [12:57] No, I'm saying that schools and conferences [13:01] have just started to have conversations [13:02] about whether or not there should be [13:04] some thought put into whether or not [13:06] it makes sense to think a little differently [13:08] about how to handle some of the sports [13:10] that have huge numbers of games [13:12] relative to some of the sports [13:14] that have a much fewer number. [13:16] I think a lot of... [13:17] That's a really embryonic conversation, [13:19] but I think it's a good one [13:20] for people to have. [13:21] Yeah, you know, there are a lot of people [13:22] who look at this and think, [13:23] you know, I went to this university. [13:26] It can't compete with some of these bigger ones. [13:29] Are we essentially in an era now [13:31] where only the biggest brands [13:34] and the deepest pockets in college sports [13:35] can expect to win basketball [13:37] and football championships? [13:41] Well, I think football is a little different [13:44] than some of the other sports. [13:45] I think in football, [13:46] given the scale of what it takes [13:48] to create a competitive program, [13:50] which was true even before the NIL era, [13:53] that's probably a reasonable assumption. [13:57] I think in most other sports, [13:59] there's still plenty of room for competition. [14:01] I mean, if you look at baseball, for example, [14:04] Troy in Alabama made it [14:06] to the College World Series. [14:07] If you look at ice hockey, [14:11] Denver won the national championship. [14:12] I mean, I can go... [14:14] There are plenty of sports [14:15] where there's still a lot of competition. [14:17] What's particularly interesting, I think, [14:20] on the women's side [14:21] is the scale and significance [14:23] of how much success [14:27] the major programs [14:30] and the power conference schools [14:32] have had in growing [14:33] and winning in women's sports. [14:36] The investments that they've made there [14:38] have made an enormous difference [14:39] in their ability [14:40] to out-compete just about everybody else. [14:43] I think on the guys' side, [14:44] there's still a bunch of sports [14:45] that are still very much competitive, [14:48] sort of up and down. [14:49] Right. [14:50] You know, as we talk about... [14:50] Look, I mean, [14:51] the last two national champions [14:53] in men's lacrosse [14:54] were Cornell and Princeton. [14:59] So, I mean, look, [15:01] there's a lot of... [15:04] You and I started this conversation [15:06] about how much change [15:07] is going on in college sports [15:09] as a result of our commitment [15:10] to try to figure out a way [15:12] to create revenue sharing [15:13] for student-athletes. [15:17] There's all kinds of things [15:19] that are going to play out [15:19] over the course of the next few years. [15:21] And while we're in the middle of this, [15:22] a lot of people are going to allege [15:24] and claim and predict a lot of things. [15:26] My guess is some of them will be right [15:30] and many of them won't be. [15:31] Well, let me ask you about one in particular. [15:34] There are leaders [15:35] at the Southeastern Conference, for example. [15:37] I'm thinking of the head coach [15:38] and the president of the University of Georgia [15:39] who've talked openly [15:40] about the SEC breaking away from the NCAA [15:42] if this legislation that's being considered [15:45] isn't considered favorable to the conference. [15:47] And once the TV contracts come up, [15:49] why don't they just go their own separate way? [15:50] What would you say to those in the SEC [15:53] or other leagues that say... [15:55] for conferences that say, [15:56] yeah, let's just go out on our own? [16:00] Well, they'll have a hard time [16:02] running national championships [16:03] if they do that [16:04] because everybody won't have the same rules. [16:06] I actually like and respect [16:09] a lot of the people at Georgia in particular [16:11] and at Ole Miss and at LSU [16:14] and at a whole bunch of those schools [16:15] who I deal with on a pretty regular basis. [16:17] I think the possibility of trying to figure out [16:23] some way to determine [16:25] what really has to be a national standard [16:28] to have national championships [16:29] and what you probably could do [16:32] at a conference level [16:33] because it doesn't necessarily affect [16:37] our ability to run national championships [16:39] on a level playing field [16:41] could be one way to think about it. [16:42] There could be places or circumstances [16:44] where maybe you have a national rule [16:46] but you have the enforcement activity [16:47] actually take place at the conference level. [16:51] I mean, we've done a lot of things [16:52] to streamline and change [16:53] the way the NCAA has governed [16:55] since I got there. [16:56] I mean, we got rid of about 80 committees. [16:58] We had a lot of committees [16:59] that have 50 people on them. [17:00] They now have about 20. [17:01] We added a lot more student-athletes [17:03] to our committees, [17:04] all about trying to create a process [17:07] that can move more quickly. [17:08] And if you look at how fast [17:09] we got the eligibility changes in place, [17:12] that was an idea in December [17:14] and now it's currently NCAA policy [17:17] with respect to how eligibility [17:18] in Division I works. [17:20] I think there's plenty of room here [17:23] to come up with strategies [17:24] and approaches that can work [17:26] and can actually serve the membership [17:28] in some respects in a better way [17:30] than we have in the past [17:32] because there are significant differences [17:34] at this point between [17:35] and among a lot of these schools. [17:37] As we talk about money and sports, [17:38] of course, betting has become [17:40] a much bigger concern [17:42] and obsession really for a lot of fans [17:44] and there's growing concern [17:44] about student-athletes and betting. [17:47] What can the NCAA do [17:50] to ensure that student-athletes [17:52] aren't betting on these games? [17:55] Well, first of all, [17:56] we run the largest integrity program [17:58] in the world [17:58] and we catch, unfortunately, [18:01] a lot of young people betting on sports, [18:03] which is always a shame. [18:06] We also run a very significant [18:08] on-campus education program [18:10] which many schools [18:12] and many student-athletes, [18:13] literally hundreds of thousands [18:14] have taken advantage of. [18:17] We also were the first [18:19] to really raise the alarm [18:21] about prop bets. [18:22] I started talking about that [18:24] pretty much as soon as I got the job [18:26] in the spring of 23 [18:28] because I heard about it a lot [18:29] from student-athletes [18:30] who said the noise [18:32] and the abuse [18:34] that they were taking [18:35] from bettors around prop bets [18:38] was really disturbing. [18:41] And I think we're the only league [18:43] that runs a surveillance program [18:46] at all of our major championships [18:48] where we track all the traffic [18:49] on social media [18:50] and notify the authorities [18:52] about the stuff we think [18:54] is particularly bad [18:55] when it comes to coaches, [18:57] players, or officials [18:58] to get those people [18:59] X'd off the platforms [19:01] for the rest of the tournament. [19:02] And in many cases [19:03] have had to notify [19:04] local authorities [19:05] about particularly aggressive abuse [19:07] that's been directed [19:08] at student-athletes. [19:10] I also think this is one [19:11] where I've been really pleased [19:13] to see the pro leagues [19:14] start to step up [19:15] and say this prop betting stuff [19:17] is bad news. [19:18] It's bad news for our players. [19:19] It's bad news for their families. [19:21] And my hope is that [19:23] we working together [19:25] with our colleagues [19:26] in the professional leagues [19:27] can dramatically limit, [19:30] significantly reduce, [19:31] and in my mind, [19:32] at least at the collegiate level, [19:33] get rid of all of the negative prop bets [19:35] and hopefully most of the prop bets [19:37] because that's where, [19:39] I mean, kids get, [19:42] if you're a student-athlete on campus [19:43] in a major program, [19:45] the likelihood that you have [19:46] classmates and friends [19:47] and family members [19:48] and friends of family members [19:50] all over you [19:50] about prop bets [19:51] on a pretty regular basis [19:53] asking you, you know, [19:54] don't take the first pitch, [19:55] don't take the first shot, [19:57] don't catch the first pass. [19:58] I don't want you to lose the game, [19:59] but here's all the other things [20:00] I want you to do [20:01] so that I can make money. [20:04] Honestly, it's disgraceful, [20:05] it's demeaning, [20:05] and it's incredibly demoralizing [20:07] for student-athletes. [20:10] And I think we're starting [20:13] to win this discussion [20:14] and this debate with the public, [20:16] and I'm anxious to have [20:18] a lot of the folks [20:19] who are part of our community [20:21] get deeply involved [20:22] and organized on this one. [20:23] You'll appreciate that on this show [20:25] there are people [20:25] who may not know [20:26] what a prop bet is, [20:27] but it's the idea [20:28] that you're betting [20:28] on something specific [20:29] or that a player [20:32] or a team will do something [20:33] over the course of the game, right? [20:35] That's generally [20:36] what a prop bet would be, right? [20:38] I mean, a prop bet [20:40] could literally be [20:40] will you score more than 50 points? [20:43] Right. [20:43] Will the team score [20:44] more than 50 points [20:45] in the first half? [20:46] Will you score more than 15 points [20:48] in a basketball game? [20:49] But literally, [20:50] the parlays around this, [20:51] which are usually [20:52] three or four bets, [20:53] which are some of the most [20:55] attractive betting scenarios [20:58] that a lot of young people [20:59] especially use [21:00] in these online sports books, [21:04] that stuff in particular [21:05] is an enormous piece [21:08] of betting generally, [21:10] and it totally changes [21:12] the character [21:13] and the culture of fandom. [21:14] I mean, if you go, [21:16] sometime just for fun, [21:17] go sit on the stands [21:19] behind the bench [21:20] at a big-time [21:21] college basketball game [21:23] and just listen [21:23] to some of this stuff [21:24] that's being directed [21:25] at the kids [21:26] who are part of those teams. [21:28] Yeah, and I've heard it [21:30] and seen it at the pro level, too. [21:31] It's incredible, [21:32] right to their face [21:33] at times. [21:34] Look, in our remaining moments, [21:35] we heard from a high school athlete [21:38] this week [21:39] who wanted to know [21:40] what kind of advice [21:41] you'd give to young athletes [21:42] who aspire to succeed [21:44] in college sports. [21:48] I think the biggest thing [21:49] I'd say is [21:50] be a great teammate, all right? [21:54] Number one, [21:54] you know, [21:55] the teams that succeed [21:56] have great cultures. [21:57] They always do. [21:58] Be a great teammate. [22:00] I'm a father of kids [22:02] who played multiple sports. [22:03] They all chose one [22:04] when they got to college, [22:06] but I think when you're young, [22:07] you should play [22:08] a lot of different sports. [22:09] The skill sets [22:10] and the capabilities [22:12] and the learnings [22:13] that will come from that [22:13] will benefit you. [22:15] Figure out what it is [22:16] you think you really love [22:17] and can be good at [22:18] and are willing [22:19] to put the time [22:20] and the energy [22:20] into getting great at [22:21] and find yourself [22:24] a couple of coaches [22:24] who you really believe [22:27] have your best interests [22:28] at heart [22:29] and are going to help you [22:29] figure out the best way [22:31] to be your best self, [22:32] not just as a player [22:33] but as a person [22:34] because in the end [22:35] of the day, [22:36] it's, you know, [22:37] the being a great person part [22:39] is a huge part [22:40] of what it means [22:40] to be a great athlete [22:41] and a great teammate [22:42] and a great adult, too. [22:44] And looking ahead, [22:46] five years, [22:47] what gives you [22:47] the most optimism [22:48] about college sports, [22:50] especially as you tackle [22:51] all these other [22:51] heady issues, [22:53] especially around [22:54] the money of college sports? [22:56] Yeah. [22:57] Well, the first thing is, [22:58] you know, [22:58] when I got to the NCAA, [22:59] people said [23:00] we'd never solve [23:00] the issue around [23:02] revenue sharing, [23:03] which we did. [23:04] So I tend to not pay. [23:06] I listen to the doomsayers [23:08] and if they say [23:08] something particularly [23:09] interesting that I think [23:10] is well thought out [23:11] and reasonable, [23:12] I'll take it into the, [23:13] you know, [23:14] sort of consideration [23:14] as we think about [23:15] the future. [23:17] But to me, [23:17] the thing that gives me [23:19] the most hope [23:20] about the future [23:21] is I, you know, [23:21] I probably meet [23:22] with over 1,000 [23:23] student-athletes a year [23:24] across all three divisions [23:25] and a whole variety [23:26] of men and women's sports. [23:27] They are some of the [23:28] best people, [23:30] best kids [23:31] I've ever been around. [23:32] And they, [23:33] I've said to many people, [23:34] they make me feel [23:35] much better [23:35] about the future [23:36] of college sports [23:38] and the future [23:38] of our country [23:39] than just about [23:39] anything else. [23:41] Well, Charlie Baker, [23:42] president of the NCAA, [23:43] former governor [23:44] of Massachusetts, [23:44] thank you for spending [23:46] some time with us. [23:47] And as the debate [23:48] over college sports [23:49] continues, [23:49] hopefully we can talk again. [23:52] Look forward to it. [23:53] Have a nice weekend, [23:54] Ed, and happy 250th. [23:55] You too. [23:56] Take care. [23:56] And we'll be right back.