Full interview: Former top RFK Jr. aide Calley Means

[0:00] In last week's midterms, nine out of 10 voters cited corruption as a crucial or major factor in [0:05] their vote for Congress. Late last week, a former Trump White House official named Callie Means [0:11] made allegations of corporate influence against a handful of top Trump officials, [0:16] including now former Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. His remarks were made in a podcast that dropped [0:21] Friday and set off a firestorm in Washington. Means is one of the leaders of the Make America [0:27] Healthy Again or Maha movement and helped form the alliance between RFK Jr. and Donald Trump in 2024. [0:35] We spoke to him Saturday. Callie, thank you for coming in and talking to us. [0:40] President Trump has announced that Chief of Staff Susie Wiles has left the White House. [0:45] The departure coincides with this resounding Republican loss in the midterms, but also [0:51] you went public with some very specific allegations of corruption and have called a clean house. [0:58] Was it your intention to get her removed? [1:00] Yes. I think President Trump has been subverted by people that are beholden to special interests [1:07] and not what President Trump ran on and what voters voted for. I led the Maha initiative at the White [1:12] House. And Stephen Miller said it recently in a speech. The heart of Maha is that we are the only [1:17] primate humans that deal with pediatric cancer and rampant cancer rates. And it's obviously because of [1:24] our environment. It's because of pesticides. It's because of that 70% of a child's diet is ultra [1:28] processed food. It's because we're not out in the sun. It's basic, basic stuff. And that, I think, [1:32] was really the heart of the Maha movement. I think a heart of what President Trump ran on. [1:36] And there's very simple things. And Americans voted to change those things. And I think underneath [1:43] Trump's nose, in many cases, you had a group of former lobbyists catering to the vaping industry, [1:52] catering to the ultra-processed food industry, catering to the pharmaceutical industry, catering [1:55] to the pesticide industry, and doing their bidding with an excuse that we need their money for the [2:00] midterms and really need to actually go against what voters said, but we need their money. Explicitly, [2:05] that's what they said. And I think- Who's that? [2:08] Susie and her cohort. Susie and Richard Walters, who is actually not someone most people know, [2:16] but was one of the most powerful people in the country, was the de facto chief of staff when [2:20] Susie was getting cancer treatment. Walker Barrett and James Blair, a very close-knit crew [2:28] who explicitly catered to special interests against the will of the voters. I think a lot of this [2:33] happened without Trump's full knowledge. I don't think President Trump fully knew that some of [2:37] these advisers were taking money from the industries we ran on fighting against at the [2:41] time they're giving explicit policy advice. Directly taking money? [2:44] Correctly, of course, yes. Tony Fabrizio is one of the most powerful people in the country, [2:49] and every single cabinet secretary was conniving on how to convince Tony Fabrizio of their policy [2:56] positions because any policy went through Tony Fabrizio for a political check. He was in the [3:01] White House all the time, every single week. He runs an outside polling firm that the White House [3:05] relies on. But that's a name. I mean, he was one of the most impactful players in White House [3:11] policymaking, one of the most powerful people in the country. He had a huge say in any policy that [3:16] got done. And as he is opining on the political relevance of doing healthy food and healthy school [3:22] lunches or taking on the pesticide industry or taking on big pharma, which President Trump ran on, [3:28] he was getting paid by Pfizer, by Pepsi. To this day, it's on his website right now. You can see it on [3:32] the Joe Rogan podcast I just did. We pulled up his website. It's advertised right now. He solicits clients [3:37] right now and lists those people as his clients. So you think all of his polling is compromised? [3:43] I'm just stating facts. I'm just stating. That's your theory that you're pointing forward? [3:46] Yeah. I'm just stating a fact that we were trying to get a 90 percent support policy done of defining [3:51] ultra-processed food. And he said the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this and advised against it [3:56] while being paid by Pepsi. We have reached out to Tony Fabrizio for comment and not heard back. [4:00] Richard Walters told CBS News he submitted his resignation Friday. Susie Wiles told us that, [4:07] quote, the president did more for Maha than any president before or likely any president in the [4:12] future. I want to get into the specifics of ultra-processed food in a moment because it's [4:16] an important health initiative that you were pushing for. But let me ask you on this topic of [4:20] basically corruption. You went on Joe Rogan's podcast and made a lot of these allegations. [4:25] Just factual statements of what I, yeah, what I experienced leading the Maha agenda. [4:30] Did the president get word that you were doing that? Do you think that what you [4:34] laid out publicly was a factor in Susie Wiles' departure? [4:37] I have no idea. I know the president is close with Joe Rogan and appreciates his opinion. You [4:43] know, people can watch the podcast. I encourage everyone to do so. It goes into details of factual [4:47] statements. Because she resigned Thursday. [4:49] But I think that President Trump, yeah, you know, I can't speak to what's going through President [4:53] Trump's head. But I think with his elevation of Stephen Miller, and again, speaking for my world, [4:58] speaking for Maha, Stephen Miller, who understands the corporate capture of our political system, [5:03] particularly when it comes to health care, better than any, I would say, government official that [5:08] I've ever seen, who wants to go hard against special interests, who, I think, made a pitch to [5:13] President Trump, we're going to go back to campaign promises, America first principles, [5:17] that President Trump got shot and suffered so much in order to be a historic president and do big [5:22] things. We're going to get away from the Ballard, which is Susie's lobbying group, controlled policy [5:27] process and towards an America first policy process. I think that's what Stephen wants to do. I think [5:30] that's what resonated with President Trump. So I think it's a bold statement that President Trump [5:34] made pushing Susie out and elevating Stephen Miller. And I think it's a very good sign for America. [5:39] So RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, who you're very, very close to, said Stephen Miller is the [5:45] strongest Maha supporter in the administration. It's time to unleash the Kraken. What do you take that to [5:51] mean? What I take it to mean is actually an opening for Republicans and Democrats. Unleash the [5:56] cracking means doing things that matter to the American people. And when it comes to health care, [6:00] these are completely nonpartisan things. I mean, I spent every single day with Bobby Kennedy, [6:04] as you said, probably more time with him than almost anyone. And what he says, what he pushes [6:09] his team on is the exact same things that Democrats are running on. It is taking on corporate capture. [6:13] It's taking on corruption. It's taking on big pharma incentives. It's making our food healthier. [6:18] That is what he is pushing his team to do. And I think people would be shocked to, if they saw, [6:23] I think really how wholesome his world is, to be quite frank. I mean, these are universal, [6:30] very popular ideas he's trying to push on. So unleash the Kraken means understanding the pain [6:34] Americans are feeling, the frustration they're feeling. And I think we are more closer to a [6:39] breaking point with our institutions and Americans' frustration with the corruption in Washington, [6:42] D.C. President Trump identified that issue. And I think what that means is we have an open hand, [6:47] the administration has an open hand, to actually get big things done that are not partisan, [6:52] but actually structural. [6:53] So on that point, I hear that you believe Stephen Miller is an ally to the cause. But in terms of [6:59] being an operator in Washington, I mean, he's radioactive to Democrats. They're already [7:03] calling for him to be fired. He was the architect of the mass deportation policy that proved very [7:10] unpopular in these midterms. Why do you think he can actually help you get things done on this cause? [7:15] Yeah, President Trump is the president for the next two years. The next two years are [7:18] going to be the most consequential two years in American history. And I think we should [7:21] all realize that our problems are not Trump or no Trump, Stephen Miller or not Stephen Miller. [7:25] It's the institutional corruption in D.C. that Stephen Miller and President Trump understand. [7:29] I think there's a lot we can get together. On immigration, which is not my issue, I will say [7:32] that a lot of polls said that that was one of, like, actually solving the border crisis. [7:37] Stephen Miller did do that. That was a core campaign promise. That was an existential issue. [7:42] He is very competent. And he has dramatically reduced those numbers. [7:47] So I can speak with most authority from the mob perspective. [7:52] Let's talk about health care. Stephen Miller wants to get transformative [7:56] things done with Bobby Kennedy and President Trump that are not partisan, but structural. [8:01] He wants to get the same things done that Elizabeth Warren and El Sayed and other people are running on. [8:07] And I think there is a major opportunity to come together and get some big things done, [8:11] which, quite frankly, we have to do. [8:12] So you said earlier this week you think the best chance the president has to get things done is to [8:17] work with Bernie Sanders and Senator-elect Abdul El Sayed. You mentioned Elizabeth Warren here. [8:24] But how do you think those things can get done in this environment? Like, [8:28] what's the thing that is most tangible here? [8:31] Yeah. I think there are specific bills, specific issues that they're literally saying the same thing. [8:38] Stephen Miller, President Trump, and Bobby Kennedy want to take on the fact that we spend two, [8:43] three times more than any other developed country on health care and live shorter. [8:47] That's clearly just corruption. [8:48] But the administration pushed a Republican bill that pulled funding from premiums. [8:54] I think Stephen Miller and Bobby Kennedy would be very amenable to meeting with Democrats, [8:59] meeting with Republicans who aren't beholden to special interests like John Thune, [9:03] and working out specific wins on drug pricing, on labels for ultra-processed food, [9:12] on greater disclosures and processes at the FDA so we make sure we have gold star science, [9:17] on the fact that the United States is 4% of the world's population but ingests 20% of the world's [9:22] herbicides and pesticides. And the recent EPA review of glyphosate was thrown out because it had [9:28] ghost her in research and bribed EPA officials. Can we have EPA reform? [9:31] This is a cancer-linked herbicide. [9:33] Yeah. So I think they would be happy and have an outreach tant knowing them to get big things done. [9:41] They want to get big things done. [9:43] You told Joe Rogan that if you're a special interest group, you pay Susie Wiles' daughter [9:49] to get something done. What specific policy are you talking about here? What do you mean by that? [9:54] Margaret, everyone knows, including you, that this is how it works. They know that Continental [10:00] Strategies, their revenue didn't go from $0 to $30 million a year by accident. [10:09] Ballard Partners, where Susie worked, became the highest revenue-generating lobbying firm [10:13] in the history of human civilization. That did not happen by accident. These companies that give those [10:18] companies, those firms' money are not acting irrationally. Like, more people, and I encourage [10:23] more people to just say the truth. President Trump said the truth during the campaign. And this [10:28] culture that Susie engendered was treating the American people like they're stupid. And often, [10:32] frankly, I think treating President Trump like he's stupid. Obviously, Continental Strategies' revenue [10:38] exploding was tied to Katie Wiles working there. And what's an example? [10:44] The fact that Katie was seen in an anti-American, pro-Russian government, [10:48] Republika Sporuska, recently, and then magically, leaders from that country have a meeting with Susie [10:55] and get a pass. She was there with James Blair and Chris Lasavita, who is very influential in this [11:00] world, collecting... And James and Chris were collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars [11:06] very recently as they were running the midterm strategy, selling out President Trump for foreign [11:11] money. They did not tell President Trump that. They told Susie. My understanding is they had to have, [11:17] right? And she clearly okayed it. But they didn't tell President Trump. That's selling President Trump [11:21] out. And I can guarantee you this, Margaret, that Stephen Miller will not be selling the president [11:26] out for a couple hundred thousand dollars from a foreign country. [11:29] JUDY WOODRUFF, You do know, though, that there's been reporting that some of the president's [11:59] own family members have their own financial interests and businesses here. You don't think that [12:05] is compromising as well? [12:07] DAVID BROOKS, I think, I think, I think every question should be asked. [12:09] Sure. I can't speak to that. What I can speak to is that I have never seen President Trump have a [12:15] policy inclination against going aggressive on Maha policies. And I can also substantiate that a lot of [12:22] the things that have been slowed down were done under his nose. [12:25] JUDY WOODRUFF, So after Susie Wiles left, Secretary Kennedy publicly said [12:31] she brokered his partnership with Trump and then thanked her for helping to bring in disruptive [12:36] leaders into HHS. He didn't say any of the things that you are saying here right now. [12:41] DAVID BROOKS, I feel very comfortable with what I said. I feel very comfortable [12:46] with the hundreds of calls I've gotten from lawmakers and senior administration officials thanking me for [12:53] what I've done. I feel like I'm speaking for a large portion of the Trump administration. And I'm very, [13:01] I'm very comfortable with that. [13:02] JUDY WOODRUFF, Did Secretary Kennedy know you were going to go public with these allegations? [13:06] DAVID BROOKS, No. Secretary Kennedy, America is very, very lucky. He is sitting at HHS. And they're [13:13] very lucky that they now have a chief of staff and a president to empower really 90 percent issues and [13:21] structural reform. He is a man of high integrity. And we're lucky that he's at HHS. If he went to war [13:30] with Susie over the past two years, he wouldn't be in that job. You know, she's ruthless. So I think [13:37] he's executed perfectly. I think he is, according to the Harvard Harris Poll, the most popular public [13:41] official in America, despite all the slander. And there's a real opportunity for Democrats to work [13:48] with him. They're already co-opting his message. Take, I asked the Democrats, take him at his word [13:53] that he's sincere. And he wants to take the Democrats so they can get something done. [13:57] But I think, from what I'm hearing, we are in a new day for the Trump administration. [14:02] And we have a huge opportunity in the next year to do what President Trump wants, [14:06] and I know he wants, which is to be a historic president and get things done that we didn't think [14:11] possible. [14:12] A spokesperson for Continental Strategy speaking for Katie Wiles told us that, quote, [14:17] Mr. Means' claims regarding Continental Strategy are inaccurate and baseless, and said the firm has, [14:22] quote, never met with Mr. Means, lobbied for glyphosate, Monsanto, Bayer, vapes, kratom, [14:28] or similar policies. Also that his allegations regarding Katie Wiles' participation in the [14:33] Serpska elections are false, as has been previously reported, they say, by other media outlets. [14:41] We've also reached out to Ballard Partners plus HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy and his aides for [14:49] comment. But we have not heard back. I want to talk about policy. Let me finish this, though, [14:54] because I want to challenge you a little bit here. If you look at the recent Maha conference that was [14:58] just held here in Washington, there were major corporations associated with it. Walmart, United [15:05] Health Care. And then there were also companies aligned with Maha who have money to potentially [15:12] make in peptide policy changes that Secretary Kennedy has, you know, championed. There are other [15:17] wellness initiatives and people who financially could benefit from some of these policies. Doesn't [15:22] that also risk compromising integrity? Those are also companies to make money. [15:28] Yeah. I can't speak for what an outside group does. I don't think any American thinks that Bobby [15:32] Kennedy is compromised by special interests. Were you comfortable with that? No, no. All those [15:35] corporations being aligned? I didn't love the framing of it. No, [15:38] it's not my event. I didn't love that. You're talking about one small conference and one small [15:42] group. It was pretty big. I mean, the secretary spoke at it. Dr. Us spoke at it. Russell Brand, [15:48] the actor, who's... I don't think any American thinks Bobby [15:50] Kennedy is compromised. And I think every single corporate interest should be scrutinized. But let's be [15:57] honest, right? Supplement companies aren't making Ballard Partners the highest revenue generating firm [16:04] in the world, right? Peptide companies and compounders are not getting meetings with Ballard, [16:09] Susie Wiles rigging the system. These are very, very small. So you're talking about a conference. [16:17] I'm talking about a $6 trillion healthcare system that is absolutely systematically rigged against Americans [16:25] being healthy and profiting from Americans being sick and has had a stranglehold on the previous [16:31] regime, right? So that's a big comparison Americans need to make to you referencing a conference that [16:39] accepted some money. You have been in the crosshairs of some congressional Democrats who are now going to [16:45] be empowered in this new Congress. They've alleged you have your own conflicts of interest because you've [16:50] owned between 25 to 50 million in stock in a company called True Med through November 2025. At that time, [16:56] I understand you had a different status. You're a special government employee. Then you became an [17:01] employee, a permanent one at the White House. And some of the arrangements changed. But for those who [17:06] look at that period of time, how can you address what they say are ethical issues that you had? [17:14] Everybody's conflict should be highly scrutinized. I started a company to drive medical spending to [17:20] exercise and healthy food after writing a book about exercise and healthy food. Through that advocacy, [17:26] I met Bobby Kennedy, met the Trump administration, and was put into government. I became an SGE and, [17:33] as you said, fully divested that company when I decided to go in full time. We raised around before [17:40] the Trump administration started. So I started a company to promote healthy food and exercise [17:46] and fully divested that company against my economic interests to come into government. [17:50] So you would work with congressional Democrats who want to question you on that? [17:54] Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. The person, Ashton Klaus, is a troll who I've been fighting on Twitter [18:00] with for years. And what he said is defamatory. I'm probably going to issue a legal notice to him, [18:07] because he literally said that I broke the law, which is untrue. And I'll answer any question, [18:13] but I fully divested my holdings. In a recent interview, you said the administration was [18:17] blocking health policies that you were trying to get passed. And you said specifically they were [18:23] doing it to take money from the sugar industry. You also talked about big tobacco. Explain that. [18:29] What did you see? So as last night, like yesterday, as Susie Wiles left, [18:38] her deputies were still relentlessly pushing HHS to find a pathway for fruit flavored vapes. [18:47] The issues that came from Susie's world were not healthy food, were not, you know, cleaning up [18:56] pesticides, were not these core issues that Bobby Kennedy ran on. I had to steamroll any of those [19:04] policies through them with President Trump's support and using outside advocates like Joe Rogan. [19:12] The issues that were being pushed hard in the previous regime were things like vapes, [19:21] which are a huge donor to Ballard partners, are things like gas station heroin. Marty McCary bravely [19:31] put a high tolerance, you know, a low tolerance limit on the products, which are causing devastation. [19:37] You basically have opioids being sold at gas stations. He was pushed out and that tolerance limit was [19:43] increased 20x so that there's still an ability for people to buy multiple products and get high, [19:50] which was the direct intention of that policy. These are the types of policies that are being pushed, [19:56] were being pushed. And again, we should be looking forward. It's a new day, but that's just [20:02] demonstrably true. The former FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty McCary resigned in May and sources close to [20:07] him said it was due to pressure from tobacco companies to make more available what you just said, [20:12] fruit flavored vapes, these e-cigarettes. But there have been allegations that the president himself, [20:19] Donald Trump pressed for the FDA to allow more favorable policies for big tobacco because of [20:25] donations to the political action committees for the midterms that he himself knew. [20:32] I, I, I, maybe that's leaked by Susie. I don't know. I, what I saw a lot is that they would set [20:37] up a quick meeting with President Trump. They would flag something for him. Oh, this is an important issue. [20:41] He'd say something and then they would jam it down, jam it down, saying it's a presidential priority for [20:46] their priorities. I don't think President Trump ran, uh, you know, as a primary purpose to help, [20:53] uh, these industries. No, he didn't run on it. And I don't think that's what he wants. [20:56] You don't think- No, I don't. From, I, I, I don't think that's why he is serving as president. I think [21:02] he talks to Bobby Kennedy about doing big transformational things. And what I know and what [21:07] I saw is that there's systematic efforts working with Ballard, working with these other people to help [21:12] these industries. This was the single, this was the single most emphasized area for James Blair, [21:19] who really led policy. Uh, you know, James Blair wasn't- He was a political strategist. [21:23] James Blair wasn't pushing, you know, calling me in and saying, how can we, you know, promote more [21:28] healthy food? How can we get more healthy food to kids? How can we, you know, talk about these Maha [21:31] principles? That never happened. I had to, I had to bulldoze to him. Uh, he was relentless on helping [21:37] the fruit flavored vape, uh, industry. So, um, that's what I saw. So to that point, so the tobacco [21:42] company, Reynolds American donated $5 million to a political action committee backed by Trump [21:48] a week before the administration rolled out a new tobacco policy. Yeah. And that was a big reason why, [21:52] uh, there was art, that was a big argument from Susie's team on why we need to do this. That, [21:56] you know, I, I didn't hear this specifically with vapes, but with the sugar industry, I, you know, [22:01] it was direct conversations about how we need the sugar industry's money for the midterm. So, [22:05] you know, when you have the midterm strategy and, and, and a belief that money, uh, for the midterms [22:10] is more important than voter promises, you're basically able to excuse everything. And that was, [22:14] you know, those donations, right, is what Ballard helps you do. They help you donate to the right [22:19] place. And, uh, and then that's a more of a reason to do things. So the New York Times reported that [22:24] tobacco lobbyists had actually been at the president's Florida golf course with him at lunch, advocating to [22:31] the president. He picked up the phone and he called RFK Jr. Did that happen? [22:36] I don't know. Brian Ballard was at that meeting. And I know that Susie set up a lot of meetings with [22:41] Brian Ballard, uh, to, uh, get a talking point that the president supports something. Again, [22:46] I do not think fruit flavored vapes, uh, or gas station heroin is, uh, any percentage of what [22:54] President Trump is thinking about or wants to do. [22:56] Because there is a pattern here. It was in the first Trump administration that the FDA [23:00] tried to crack down on Kratom, what you're calling gas station heroin. They also tried [23:04] to crack down on fruit flavored vapes. The FDA commissioner at that time, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, [23:09] left. And yet in the second Trump administration, these very same issues are surfacing again. Are [23:16] you sure the president isn't OK with it? I am sure that the president is, realizes that he has a [23:24] generational coalition with Secretary Kennedy. He respects Secretary Kennedy. He wants to go hard [23:30] on the issue of improving health for children. I think he had severe, uh, uh, poor advice, [23:38] uh, from people, I think, who, uh, treated him like a baby in many respects and used him. [23:44] Um, The president's staff treat him like a baby. [23:46] Of course. They, they would, they, they would block access to an information to him all the time. [23:51] I, I would be not surprised at all, you know, if they had very short conversations on these issues, [23:57] you know, where the president's extremely busy and the president said, OK, whatever. And then they use, [24:03] yeah, then they use that. Like, like it's all, it was all like the president wants this. I don't [24:08] think this is the president's top issue. And I think we have a chief of staff now that wants to exercise [24:14] this culture from the white house, exercise the people that are still pushing fruit flavored vapes [24:18] to this day as their top priority, uh, and get, you know, to doing big things. And I think there's [24:23] a comp, this is a complicated world. There's a lot of complicated issues that I'm sure Democrats are [24:26] going to want to address. But when it comes to these issues on Maha, uh, I think there is huge [24:32] opportunity in the next year, uh, to get some big things done. Because I can say with certainty that [24:38] Bobby Kennedy, Stephen Miller and president Trump want to get big things done on these issues. [24:42] Well, Secretary Kennedy has endorsed Dr. Heidi Overton to be the next FDA commissioner. He said [24:48] she's exceptionally dedicated, meticulous attention to detail, strategic leadership to every policy [24:54] she touches. You accused her of writing a policy to relax standards on fruit flavored vapes. [25:00] I'm not going to speak for Secretary Kennedy. Heidi Overton, uh, was the biggest block, uh, to Maha [25:07] policies I encountered in the government, uh, on healthy food, on mental health treatments like [25:12] psychedelics. Uh, she was a stone wall and she, uh, really mindlessly, in my opinion, did whatever [25:22] Susie told her to do. Um, Marty McCary was her mentor. Um, and she in a meeting told Marty and I that, [25:31] uh, she couldn't help Marty if he didn't approve a drug that he thought scientifically should not be [25:36] approved an mRNA flu vaccine. Um, and, uh, it's just a factual statement that after Marty left, [25:44] uh, partly due to the vaping issue, she drove the creation of the relaxed vaping strategy. [25:50] So in this new regime with the new chief of staff, do you think her nomination is going to be pulled? [25:56] I mean, she's already testified to Congress. She's still got to face the vote. [26:00] My opinion is Heidi Overton should not be, she does not have the character or integrity [26:03] to be FDA secretary or FDA commissioner. A spokesman for Dr. Heidi Overton responded to [26:08] Means' criticism of her qualifications and told CBS News that two former FDA commissioners [26:14] think otherwise. Dr. Marty McCary provided us the following statement, quote, [26:20] Big Tobacco exploited their connections to administration and HHS officials to put [26:24] repeated pressure on me to approve fruit-flavored vapes that appealed to children. [26:29] I wouldn't do it. The Kratom 70H lobby ran the same playbook to undermine my efforts to [26:36] make this new gas station heroin illegal. As FDA commissioner, I always rejected political [26:42] corruption just as voters across the political spectrum did last week. Now, we did also contact [26:49] Susie Wiles, who told CBS that she had nothing to do with the tobacco industry meeting with the [26:54] president at his golf club. In response to Means' allegation, James Blair told CBS, quote, [27:01] I didn't promote flavored vaping specifically at all. I was tasked with driving FDA to make its [27:08] process for approving or denying nicotine delivery device applications work the way current federal law [27:14] dictates it works, which is that applicants get a yes or no approval in six months. [27:20] Cali is intentionally misrepresenting my role and my responsibility because he opposes the issue [27:26] entirely. Even though the president himself has made his position on smoking and smoking alternatives [27:33] very known publicly and has provided clear direction, Cali just doesn't like it. [27:40] Now, President Trump has publicly stated that he saved flavored vaping during his first term to get [27:46] people off smoking. And he vowed in his second term to save vaping again. Making food healthier for [27:53] kids was one of the core promises of the Maha movement. And I asked Cali Means about why his [27:59] efforts to create a federal definition of ultra-processed food has stalled. On the day you resigned, [28:05] food stocks rallied. General Mills, Kraft, they went up. You have been working to create a federal [28:11] definition of ultra-processed food. Why hasn't that definition happened? This is a no-brainer. [28:18] 70% of a child's diet has ultra-processed food. And the definition is not complicated. There was [28:25] relentless lobbying against this because the industry, and they said this in meetings with me and other [28:29] people, they just don't want a definition because they don't want Americans to have more transparency [28:32] into what they're eating because they're just shipped away from ultra-processed food right now. [28:35] This was a policy that folks and I worked relentlessly on with hundreds of meetings, [28:41] stakeholders. I met with every food industry lobbyist. And we had the American Heart Association, [28:45] American Medical Association, American Academy Pediatrics groups that are suing the administration [28:48] on other issues supportive of this policy. We went through an interagency policy process where the [28:52] USDA signed off and other parts of the White House. And then days before the announcement, [29:00] after a barrage of calls to Susie's office, which the lobbyists from Coca-Cola and Mandela's [29:06] threatened me that they would do, it was pulled. They said to you what? I'll call the chief staff? [29:10] When they basically, in meetings, acknowledged that they don't really have contributions to the [29:17] definition but just don't want it done. And I said, this is a mandate and a promise from the [29:21] administration to get done. They said, okay, well, we're going to call Susie's office and other people. [29:26] I was very disturbed by that because they spoke about that as if these people in the government were [29:31] extensions of their industry. They did that and it was pulled by Susie's office. [29:38] One of the other key issues for Maha is eliminating the use of glyphosate. That's [29:42] that herbicide we talked about linked to cancer. It's commercially available as Roundup. It was [29:47] produced by Bayer, which is formerly known as Monsanto. Why did the Trump administration support the [29:53] corporation and its position, a winning one before the Supreme Court, to protect them from further [30:00] lawsuits? That does not sound like a Maha principle. No, it's not. And Heidi Oberton- But it's a MAGA [30:06] principle? No, it's not. Heidi Oberton led that process working with the DOJ to write a brief to [30:12] the Supreme Court urging them to take a case to give this cancer-causing chemical proven by many court [30:18] cases that have been settled. The EPA is still reviewing it? Well, the press EPA review was flown out [30:24] because Bayer bribed people and ghost wrote research. Bribed who? This is documented. The [30:32] glyphosate hasn't been reviewed in 30 years. And I was up for a review recently, a couple years ago, [30:38] and that review was thrown out because Bayer ghost wrote research and bribed EPA officials. Is that [30:44] happening now? There's huge problems that the EPA, which President Trump ran on fixing, and I hope we can. [30:51] On the issue of the immunity, that happened because Heidi Oberton, working with Susie's team, worked with [30:57] the DOJ to say from the administration that they should take that case without the consultation of [31:05] Secretary Kennedy and without consulting President Trump. So you're talking about a lot of the staff [31:11] that the public may not know, but they do know that there's an EPA administration. Like there's Lee [31:15] Zeldin. There's Brooke Rollins at the USDA. There's an HHS secretary. Are they not involved in [31:21] any of the details here? The government is 2 million people. President Trump is the first [31:24] president in American history to actually identify the problem that we are at the verge of institutional [31:29] collapse with the breakdown and corruption of our institutions. And I think that's a tremendous [31:34] contribution. And now you have leading Democrats saying the exact same thing. So I think we do have [31:38] an opportunity to fix this. Lee and Brooke, I talk to Bobby regularly, are aware of the problem and are [31:44] trying to fix it. It is impossible to describe to you how large and broken these institutions are. [31:51] And there are people in the government, and I will say Lee and Brooke have been working really hard with [31:55] Bobby to try to fix this. It is daunting. That is not an excuse for President Trump. But it's just true. [32:03] This is the civilizational, I think, challenge that we have as Americans and that we need to realize [32:08] that the issue and American competitiveness does not hinge on whether President Trump is in or out or [32:14] whether Stephen Miller is in and out. It hinges on fixing this institutional corruption of our systems [32:19] that our founders would be absolutely horrified by. So you think it's right for congressional Democrats [32:24] to hold hearings, issue subpoenas, call some of these? I think it would be a massive mistake and part of [32:28] a psyop for them to act like the only issue is getting President Trump out of office, because that's a [32:34] lie. And that's just more of the same. The Congress has not passed. It would be crazy for them to go [32:39] after Secretary Kennedy. He's the most popular public official in America. And they're literally [32:44] campaigning on the exact same things he campaigned on. Let me just finish the point. Americans need [32:51] to understand, if the Democratic investigations are primarily based on the thesis that the thing that [32:57] will save America is whether President Trump is in or out of office, that is a lie. And we know that's [33:03] a lie. What I am describing with these people and what I'm describing this institutional corruption [33:08] is happening for decades. And it is a bipartisan issue. Right now, lobbying firms, you know, run by [33:14] Senator Schumer's former staffers are filling up their coffers. This is a game. This is a game. And you [33:21] have an interesting dynamic where President Trump during the campaign and the Democrats that are running [33:25] without corporate money, many on the far left, are actually saying the same thing, which is that the [33:29] most existential thing we need to address is institutional corruption. We would change the [33:34] world if the Democrats spent some time actually working with Bobby Kennedy to ask, why is the FDA [33:43] using political interference to make drug decisions, as Marty McCary can testify? It's a political process. [33:49] Americans should not be proud of how we're making regulatory decisions. Why hasn't the EPA reviewed [33:54] glyphosate in 30 years? Like, like, like, like, can we spend a little bit of time? I don't think I'm [34:01] skeptical Congress is going to do it, because they want the Democrats and Republicans. They want to be [34:06] debating left versus right, which is which is a joke. They don't want to be talking about the [34:11] fundamental rot, because that implicates them. [34:14] AMNA NAWAZ- A senior White House official told CBS News that the solicitor general wrote the legal brief for [34:19] the Supreme Court at the request of the court and said that Dr. Overton did weigh in on the brief [34:26] in the final stages, but just made changes to, quote, tone. The Trump administration argued in court [34:33] filings that federal standards supersedes state-level failure to warn, which was the same position taken [34:39] by glyphosate maker Monsanto, now known as Bayer. The Make America Healthy Again movement, or MAHA, [34:46] led by Secretary Kennedy, is part of the coalition that helped elect President Trump in 2024. [34:51] There is an associated political action committee which helped elect candidates during the midterms. [34:57] With the exception of one independent candidate, all were Republicans. [35:02] But you have identified here some of the Democrats you think you could possibly work with. [35:07] Was it a strategic mistake for Maha to align itself with Donald Trump and MAGA solely? I mean, [35:13] the Maha PAC didn't endorse a single Democrat. It's all Republicans. [35:17] This is an imminently... [35:18] So now it's partisan. [35:19] This is an imminently bipartisan issue and has been noted many times. [35:24] What Bobby Kennedy is saying is often what the left has been saying. That's a good thing. [35:28] I am very comfortable with the decision that Bobby Kennedy made to bring this to the right with [35:36] President Trump. And I think actually, historically, it's a great thing that the [35:40] right is now animated on these issues, as the left is, too. And when you inject an issue into politics, [35:47] it becomes toxic. You agree with most of these issues, but the news basically just covers the [35:53] edge cases, the toxic things, the questions. But there is a huge opportunity that the right is [35:59] animated on the same issues the left is animated. And I will say, we're at a point right now where [36:04] altered processed food is declining. Americans are actually practicing healthy habits by many [36:10] statistics. We're actually waking up to this culturally. And I think the fact that Bobby [36:14] Kennedy and President Trump on the right substantiated this has really moved that culture [36:17] forward and I think has been positive. Whether you're left, right or center, I think you're thinking [36:21] more about these issues. And I think President Trump and Bobby Kennedy deserve credit for that. [36:25] But to this point, just report card-wise, the CBS exit polls showed 58 percent of those [36:31] polled in these midterm races said the Trump administration policies have made the health [36:35] and well-being of people in the U.S. worse, 58 percent. It also showed 47 percent of those who [36:42] voted said Trump policies have made access to vaccines for children worse. Has it been a mistake to focus so [36:48] much on vaccines and not publicly on the food issues and the things that you say are bipartisan? [36:55] Well, Bobby Kennedy focuses on the uniting bipartisan issues, so it's not accurate that he's just [37:01] there talking about vaccines. The executive orders have been about encouraging glyphosate and [37:05] encouraging opting out of vaccines. Let me finish. The media focuses a lot on vaccines. Just factually, [37:11] Bobby Kennedy, 90 percent of his time is on issues that every American would be very proud of. [37:17] I'll say on vaccines, if we want to talk about that, right, I mentioned on the Joe Rogan podcast, [37:22] again, the FDA sent a study back on the Moderna mRNA vaccine showing that there were deaths in the study [37:30] group and showing that it had a poultry absolute benefit and that there were severe side effects. [37:37] And they asked for another study to begin. This is an approved vaccine. [37:40] Yeah. No, no, no. No, it wasn't approved. They sent it back because the data didn't. [37:45] What happened was Blackstone, who invested in this drug too, pounded calls. He had the lobbyists we all [37:52] know, pounding calls. And Heidi Overton was directed to reach into the FDA after Marty left and reverse [38:01] that decision. And the head of vaccines at the FDA, Caslow, David Caslow, is the former head of vaccines [38:07] for Merck. He wears an N95 mask and has to vaccinate on his license plate, very rich from Merck. And he put [38:15] together an advisory committee of his friends, and they approved a vaccine that the FDA thought [38:21] was not safe and effective. Now that's being called safe and effective. I think Democrats, [38:25] left, right or center, would probably have questions. If Congress wants to investigate something, [38:29] can we investigate political interference in our system? I'll tell you, you know, as a parent, [38:33] and as somebody who's been attacked by people in the Maha community, because vaccines are not my main [38:37] issue. I am deeply, deeply concerned with the corruption and political interference in drug [38:46] approvals, including vaccines. And I think that's a worthwhile thing to discuss. And I think, frankly, [38:53] an area where the Democrats should want to know what's going on there. [38:58] Well, we saw a record number of doctors and scientists run and win seats, and they're going [39:03] to be in the Democratic majority. Pediatrician Annie Andrews, doctor from South Carolina, [39:08] she says RFK and impeaching him is one of her campaign promises. She said he's been her arch [39:14] nemesis for decades. There are thousands of pediatricians across the country who would say [39:18] the same thing. So isn't this an example of the vaccine issue getting in the way of all these other [39:25] health initiatives? As I said, I think there's very reasonable questions to ask about the corruption [39:30] of the FDA. And I think it would be a mistake to... But RFK is the HHS secretary. [39:36] I think it would be a mistake to completely deny what's clearly a growing crisis of trust among many [39:44] Americans with the medical advice that we're getting from the medical system after COVID. I do think [39:51] there is a massive opportunity to get 90 percent issues done. I believe in DC, the hardest issues to get [39:58] done are actually the most popular issues that really go after structural reform and really go [40:03] after special interests. I cannot find many examples of Congress passing a major bill in the past 20 [40:09] years that has gone against special interests. So if they're saying that they want to focus on real [40:15] health reform, real reform that I think almost by definition has to take on some special interests, [40:20] Bobby Kennedy's there. And if they want to have him in and ask questions about how he's gone [40:25] about vaccines, I'm sure he'd be happy to have that conversation too. [40:28] The FDA did not respond to CBS News' request for comment. However, a U.S. health official told CBS [40:36] News that any deaths that occurred during the study of a vaccine or drug would be in the public [40:42] record linked to the approval document reported to the FDA. The issue of death and safety signals [40:49] did come up here and to argue that there is a cover up is false. In addition to the approval document, [40:57] the issue was discussed publicly in the advisory committee and debated openly in June. There was [41:03] no special advisory committee put together at the FDA to approve the vaccine. The FDA does not have [41:10] evidence of collusion or conspiracy, according to this health official.