Full interview: America's mayors panel

[0:00] Welcome back to Face the Nation. We're joined now by a bipartisan group of mayors from across the [0:05] country. Republican David Holt of Oklahoma City, Democrat Eileen Higgins of Miami, Democrat Quentin [0:12] Lucas of Kansas City, and Republican Mark Freeman of Mesa, Arizona. And it's good to have you all [0:18] here in town at the table together, speaking in a bipartisan way. There are so many things that you [0:24] see on the ground operating your cities. And what we see in our polling again and again is the [0:30] number one issue for people when they say it's the economy. What they really mean is the cost of [0:35] living. And the biggest contributor to that really is housing. Shelter costs right now really burdening [0:42] people. And I want to start with you, Mayor Higgins. Miami, we looked it up. It's the least affordable [0:48] rental market of any major city. Median price for condos and single-family homes up more than 80% [0:54] since COVID. So many people moved in there around that period of time. You've been trying to make [0:59] government land available to develop on. Is that working? Are you going to make a dent in prices? [1:06] Well, what I can tell you is the largest landowners in many communities are municipal governments. And [1:12] prior to becoming mayor, I served on our county commission for eight years. And during that time, [1:18] by activating county-owned land, particularly land around transit stations, I was able to, [1:26] in a short period of time, build or rehabilitate 4,000 units of affordable and workforce housing. And [1:32] we have about 3,000 more in the pipeline. So that is a big contributor. And it can be used better. And [1:39] certainly I intend to do so at the city. When you're building stuff, costs are high, right? Cost of land, [1:45] cost of concrete, cost of steel, cost of labor. So if cost of land can be taken out of that equation, [1:51] it makes it easier to build affordable and workforce housing. And the other thing that's [1:57] really important that government can do is make it faster to build it. And one of the initiatives [2:02] I undertook at the county was to completely revamp how we permit affordable housing. And at that, [2:10] at our point in time, we could permit a 12-story building in less than four months. Now, part of the [2:17] reason I was elected mayor of the city of Miami was people trusted me on building housing that is [2:24] affordable for our workers and to do it in record time. So my top priority at the city is to fix a [2:31] broken permitting system where right now it can take two to three years before you can even break ground [2:36] on affordable housing project. So very important that cities pay attention to their bureaucracy, [2:42] make it as small as possible, because every day you're waiting and permitting is the day the costs go up. [2:49] Yeah. And this has become such a national issue. I mean, Mayor Holt, you've heard President Trump [2:55] issue this executive order saying he's going to ban institutional investors from developing in real [3:00] estate single family homes. Is it institutional investors that are really the problem? I mean, [3:05] what is it in Oklahoma City that's sort of holding up some of that free space to develop affordable [3:14] housing? I mean, cost, cost of construction, cost of materials. You know, as Mayor Higgins just [3:21] referenced, of course, we all are looking at our permitting and regulations and making sure that's [3:26] a local level. That's all local level stuff. Yeah, I think at the national level, we certainly see [3:31] room for partnership, though. Everybody's got to do their part. And certainly we can't ask the [3:36] federal government to be a partner in this if we're not doing the kind of things that you could [3:40] ask every one of us. And I bet you we've got like five different things we're working on right now on [3:44] housing. But we've been here in Washington speaking with one voice on this and seeking a federal [3:48] partnership. And it has been just as bipartisan as this table. We are meeting this week. We heard and had a [3:54] visit from, you know, Senator Warren, who has a bill with Republican Senator Tim Scott, who also sent a [4:02] message. And of course, we've been working on the House side as well with a bipartisan group, Congressman [4:07] Flood, Congressman Cleaver. So there's a lot of movement here. And there's a lot of interest. And [4:12] certainly we also welcome the continued interest of President Trump and the administration. But [4:16] none of that will be none of this will be the silver bullet. But if we're all working on it, [4:21] we will be hitting at what you described correctly, which is that housing is the single greatest cost [4:26] in every household budget. So if you want to if you want to address affordability, if that's the [4:30] political watchword of 2026, then I would add to it housing is how you're going to do that. [4:36] Right. And you when you talk about convening all these people, you're the president right now. [4:39] I am the current president of the United States Conference of Mayors, a hundred year old [4:42] organization that that has speaks for 1400 mayors, had 300 mayors here in Washington this week. [4:48] And they all have the same problem. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, to different degrees and in different [4:52] ways. But there's not a single mayor who said, No, I'm good on housing. Right? Yeah, everybody. This [4:57] is our number one issue. Number one issue. Mayor Lucas out in Kansas City, you've tried to create [5:02] affordable housing via a trust fund. I think that's winding down, though. Did it make a difference? Do you [5:08] still have the kind of shortage that is a problem? You know, it made a tremendous difference. The [5:13] challenge in all of our cities, my city of about half a million people, I think needs about 28,000 more [5:18] units. I think everyone around the table will have similar numbers challenges. And so we are making [5:23] a dent in a problem. But I think the first step we need is to identify more resources and a lot of [5:29] cases to identify more land. And we are seeing progress. The question, I think, for the American [5:34] city is, how do you fund it long term? If we don't see more federal funding long term, states aren't as [5:40] heavily in the business as they used to be. Are you looking on bond obligations for local taxpayers, [5:45] more private investment? Permitting and regulatory burdens are a huge part of what we're trying to do. [5:51] But it is interesting. You are seeing necessarily nonpartisan solutions to this because you need [5:57] private sector, public investment, land use reforms, everything under the sun to make sure [6:02] you can make a change. And do you see the working with the federal government actually being [6:08] collaborative at this point? You know, the federal government has been very collaborative. There are [6:12] certainly always some holdups and issues. And I think that exists from administration to [6:17] administration, making sure we can get funding from HUD more efficiently, making sure that there's [6:21] a focus on true housing reform. But frankly, we recognize that there's not a lot moving in Washington [6:27] some days. But this bill on housing is one of them. And so we do see progress. We see an administration [6:33] that's talking to us on it. And we hope and believe that everyone understands that housing is core to [6:39] how we make our cities better long term. I can confirm that a lot is stuck in Washington. Your [6:43] comment is correct there. Mayor, let me ask you, because out in Arizona, we look, there is just [6:49] like statewide this population boom that has happened. And that's adding to not just the housing [6:55] shortage. You've got a water crisis out there to support this population. We checked and the renters in [7:02] Arizona are spending at least 30 percent of their income on housing. How do you offset all of those [7:08] strains? Well, for Mesa, Arizona, what we've done is we're a unique city. We don't have a primary [7:14] property tax, nor do we have a tax on food. So when you go to the grocery store. You're trying to get more [7:19] people to move there now? Well, along with the water crisis you brought up, we're not in a water [7:25] crisis. In fact, Mayor Gallego and I have formed a water coalition to where we're working on water [7:31] strategies and portfolios because we have a 100-year assured water supply for Arizona, especially for [7:37] all our municipalities. And that allows us to meet the housing needs that we need in our community and [7:42] affordability. And we're holding our prices down in Mesa and our surrounding areas. So you don't see it as a [7:50] water crisis right now, even though you have this sort of messy interstate battle over the Colorado River [7:55] water and water supplies. Well, just transparent. I am a farmer, so I do farm. I use water to irrigate my crops with. [8:03] And we are having a water issue with the upper basin and lower basin states. So that lower basin, which I'm in, is [8:11] willing to negotiate with the upper basin and to continue to get additional waters to Arizona, which we definitely need. [8:19] I mean, Arizona, Mesa, we have experienced a 775,000 acre foot cut of water. We are the junior partners on the [8:30] Colorado River where other states are not. So we've taken our share of cuts. So we want solutions. That's [8:36] what we need. And we'll be watching that because I believe that interstate conflict is only facing more [8:43] deadlines and pressure. But let me come back to you, Mayor Higgins. We checked. Bank of America lists [8:49] Miami as one of the top cities with the largest population loss year over year. 70% of people there [8:55] who were leaving chose to go elsewhere in the South. What is it that's driving the migration out? After you [9:02] had this boom during COVID, people now leaving. Is that due to just affordability? Is that due to [9:08] something else? Well, we are still blessed with a lot of companies that are locating their headquarters [9:15] and choosing Miami as their home. And so certainly we continue to see people moving there. Now, we did [9:22] have, I guess, the COVID boom of people that came down for a while that weren't intending to make [9:28] Florida their permanent home. And so some of them have gone back to other places. But at the end of the day, [9:37] we still have a robust sector of our community that is there. They've always been there. And so my job [9:45] now is to make sure with these new tech companies and AI companies and cyber companies that are [9:51] locating and calling Miami home to connect our workforce to those high-paying jobs. Because we have [9:58] traditionally been a service sector economy. And it's great to have a hospitality economy. Those tend to be [10:04] low-wage jobs with low benefits. And so workforce development programs, particularly in cooperation [10:11] with Miami-Dade College, to prepare our workers for these tech jobs is the way to make sure we are [10:18] addressing affordability through wages, not just through the cost of housing. Giving them access to [10:24] the careers they deserve and to harness the opportunity that is locating with these companies in Miami. [10:30] So I want to come back to tech, but let's just continue on this theme of labor and supply. [10:36] Immigration is such a heated issue in this country right now, and enforcement in particular. [10:44] There's, at the national level, this tension we're seeing, particularly in the wake of the [10:48] shootings in Minnesota between the federal government and then state and local authorities. [10:53] I want to understand how you're thinking about this, because I saw your statement that called for [10:57] general de-escalation. None of your cities are technically sanctuary cities. All of them comply [11:06] with requests from the federal government to cooperate on immigration enforcement. That's [11:12] different from places like Minneapolis. Mayor Freeman, we checked. 4% of the population in Arizona [11:19] is undocumented, according to Pew. As I understand it, you've limited cooperation with ICE, [11:24] and you hand people over to federal authorities if they have an immigration infraction, but your [11:30] local authorities picked them up for something else, right? That's what, in effect, that policy [11:35] means. Why does that work for you when it doesn't work in places like Minneapolis, and you have this [11:43] high degree of tension and this standoff? [11:48] Well, personally, I think that's a great question, but I think there's some misinterpretation, [11:53] excuse me, of it, because in Mesa, we have an agreement with ICE, but, however, it's only on [12:02] infractions that may be a civil infraction, and so we don't have a jail in Mesa, Arizona. [12:08] So, we go to a holding facility, and we've been working with ICE since 2009 with an agreement [12:15] that we found very successful with. But, more importantly, what we're doing in Mesa, I've [12:21] taken it, I've elevated it to the next level. We have Dies de Muertos, the Day of the Dead, [12:27] that we have with our Hispanic, Latino community. We have El Grico, who's the liberation of Spain [12:34] from Mexico. So, we have these great experiences in Mesa, Arizona, in our downtown area, in cooperation [12:41] with our Latino, Hispanic area. And I meet with our pastors, as well, to make sure that everything [12:48] is going well on their end. Mm-hmm. And you don't feel the tension at the local level right now? [12:55] Like, the debate we're having as a country. No, I don't feel... Are people talking about it? [12:58] Yeah, they talk about it in our community, but I'm meeting with the people who are actually [13:02] affected by it, and they find comfort in knowing that our city stands ready to support them. [13:07] Mm-hmm. So, there's no protest or pressure to change your current policies more towards something [13:16] like out in Minneapolis. No, there's no... I mean, there's pressures all the time from other [13:21] organizations, but we stand solid in our commitment to provide safety to our neighborhoods and to our [13:27] Latino, Hispanic communities. And we work with them every week, every month. [13:34] Mayor Holt, I want to ask you about your city, but also in this leadership role you have. [13:39] Like, how are you counseling mayors to go through this right now? This is a real pressure [13:45] at the federal level to sometimes change local laws or state laws. [13:51] Well, I don't know. A few observations in reaction to that. I mean, first, it's really [13:58] important to point out that we have enforced immigration laws in this country for over a [14:04] century. ICE has been around for two decades. There was even a previous Trump administration [14:09] that, and in none of those times, did you see this level of chaos in our cities. I understand [14:15] in the previous Trump administration there was controversy about things at the border, but [14:19] I'm talking about all the, you know, a thousand miles from the border in places like Minneapolis. [14:26] So, it's... We can look back to previous eras of normality and appreciate that there are ways [14:33] to competently enforce immigration laws in this country. And I think that's what we're kind [14:39] of asking for, is that sort of pivot back to a new strategy that may be an old strategy. [14:45] And I think we all accept that this administration prioritizes a higher level of enforcement. [14:51] But what we're seeing in the conflicts in the streets of Minneapolis is just obviously unacceptable. [14:57] And we're still sort of reeling from what happened last Saturday. And, you know, we're generally [15:02] encouraged that the administration seems to be exploring that pivot, you know. And of course, [15:10] we understand it takes time to sort of get the right personnel in place and make the policies. [15:13] So, I mean, we're giving them that space. But what was happening in Minneapolis that kind [15:19] of culminated in the second death of a protester last Saturday is obviously something that we would [15:25] all fear to happen in our cities. And we feared that that kind of chaos was starting to potentially [15:31] creep around the country. I think the other thing I want to observe, though, is that mayors [15:35] are certainly caught in a little bit of an impossible situation because, you know, we take these roles [15:41] with our chief obligation being the protection of our residents. And we're even given a police [15:47] department, people with guns, to aid us in that pursuit. But there is a thing called the [15:53] Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution. And when the federal government and federal law [15:57] enforcement comes into your city, we are fully subservient to that in the eyes of the law. And [16:01] we also believe in the rule of law. So we get caught kind of in the middle of these tensions. And we [16:07] need a federal government who will use discretion and restraint with that power. And that has mostly [16:14] worked for the last 250 years. So I think we just need to remind everybody that this is possible. And I [16:20] think you see mayors maybe messaging some of that to our residents, some of it to Congress, [16:25] some of it to the administration, just trying to find a happy medium for everybody where we can [16:30] coexist with all of these inherent tensions that, of course, have always existed. And we have largely [16:36] been able to manage. But that's why I think it's so interesting to talk to you all as mayors, [16:41] because you actually have to deal with these people day to day and secure their safety, as you said, [16:47] but also, you know, remain compliant. In Oklahoma, it looks like the Highway Patrol [16:54] works with ICE to conduct sting. So you do have some working together of state and federal. [16:58] Yeah, I mean, it's a state agency, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. That is not our police department. [17:02] Right. But when you see that working together, is it smooth? Are there tensions now because of what [17:10] just happened in the past few weeks? Like, are people questioning whether these policies should stay? [17:16] Well, I mean, let me differentiate and make it clear. Do people look at Minneapolis and say that [17:21] could happen here? Well, of course. I'm sure every mayor in America here in D.C. was feeling that way. [17:27] And again, not because any of us think that there shouldn't be immigration enforcement. [17:33] Right. I mean, this is not the question. It's just how is it managed? I mean, we have some mayor [17:38] colleagues that were former police chiefs, for example, have really great expertise in law enforcement. [17:44] We're all amateurs, right? But these are people who did this for a living. And they're telling us, [17:48] they look at these videos and they see police tactics that haven't been utilized anywhere in [17:54] 30 years in a local law enforcement agency, that these are not the cutting edge techniques of law [18:00] enforcement that we have been using, our police departments have been using for the last quarter [18:04] century to build trust with our communities. Right. [18:06] And so we're not really arguing about whether this country should enforce immigration. [18:13] Right. Everybody believes that. I mean, [18:15] not everybody, but the broad swath of the American public does. [18:18] But what we are arguing about is police tactics and strategies and managing engagement with residents [18:26] on the street. We have built so much trust in these last few years and worked really hard at that. [18:32] And obviously, this whole situation has threatened to erode that trust. [18:37] Yeah. Mayor Lucas, I want to come to you on this idea of how the federal government is trying to [18:44] implement immigration in your city. Because we checked, and I believe you have a similar experience [18:50] out in Oklahoma, too, where the federal government's looking to turn industrial warehouses [18:54] into large-scale detention facilities for up to 10,000 people. That has caused some friction in Kansas City. [19:01] You have tried to change things. You passed a city ordinance to combat it. [19:06] Can you actually stop the federal government from doing it? [19:08] You know, I think there's a substantial question to it. The people of Kansas City have asked us to [19:13] make sure, though, that we stand up for, in this situation, simple zoning, that we make sure that we [19:19] share what is the viewpoint of the people of Kansas City. There absolutely is a supremacy clause. [19:23] There's also a 10th Amendment. And so in our view, that is, which is reserved to the states, which includes local zoning, [19:30] local police powers, particularly where private contractors are in the transaction with the city, [19:35] we have the opportunity to engage. There's been a long fight near us in Leavenworth, Kansas, [19:39] you know, for a prison and a military base, where they've also managed to reject the placement of a [19:45] federal facility working through a private enterprise. So we wanted to make clear not only [19:51] that people largely didn't want a 10,000 person detention facility near them, but also that they [19:57] have to go through things like zoning a special use permit. It sounds in some way boring. It is core [20:01] to what government is. But I think taking us from perhaps the political issue, there's the simple one, [20:07] which is in all of our communities, we want to make sure people are treated humanely. Converting a gigantic [20:13] distribution facility next to railroad tracks and all of that into a warehouse for 10,000 people for [20:20] which it was never designed is not right. And it is fundamentally something that is inhumane and [20:25] inhospitable, at least to the senses that we have in Kansas City. And I would submit to you, [20:30] most American cities. So whether it is converting giant distribution facilities into mass detention [20:36] warehouses, whether it's alligator Alcatraz in Florida or anything under the sun, I think you are [20:42] seeing communities say, we want to make sure that if there will be detention, if there will be [20:47] enforcement, it is consistent with constitutional principles long term. Can you stop it? Do you [20:51] know yet? You know, I think that probably that'd be a federal district court determination. I have [20:56] seen there have been many zoning battles over the years about what can be done. I think the fact that [21:00] you mainly have private enterprises that are looking to build these then lease to the government [21:05] creates some level of a question. And just on you, Mayor, quickly, I saw that the owners of the [21:11] warehouse are now trying to not sell the property to land security. Is this because people just don't [21:17] want it in their backyard or? Well, yeah, I mean, this is this is actually I think this whole question [21:21] is interesting because it's actually where we can find a lot of unity. It's a land use question. It's [21:25] not a political question or even an immigration question. It's it's for some people it is. Yeah, [21:30] I mean, maybe but but also like you can be for you can be for a very aggressive approach from ice and not [21:36] want to live next to a detention center. Right. So it becomes an MB issue. Yeah. And not in my backyard. [21:41] We and we also have a fundamental belief always in local control and the belief that if there's a land [21:46] use question, it should be adjudicated at the local level. There should be hearings and people should [21:50] be able to talk and there should be votes. And, you know, when the federal government, however, [21:54] historically acquires land in a city because of the supremacy clause, they don't ask for a thing. [22:00] They don't ask for a zoning approval. They don't ask for a building permit. They just do it. [22:04] And that's the tension inherent here. But it's kind of easy for mayors to set aside the political [22:09] dynamic here and just say, hey, that's a high impact use, a detention center. We have a special [22:14] permit requirement for that. We would really like to to go through a process, take that through a [22:19] process. And so, yeah, Kansas City passed a resolution to try and create a what may ultimately be [22:26] a adjudicated flashpoint of over that question. In our situation in Oklahoma City, the facility that was [22:32] proposed. Now the owners are not not no longer engaging with the EHS over that conversation. [22:38] But we'll see where all that goes. And before we leave the topic of immigration, [22:42] Mayor Higgins, nearly seven percent of Florida is undocumented, according to Pew. In Miami, [22:47] the police cooperate with ICE. But you during your campaign were very critical of that decision to [22:54] cooperate. Can you change the policy without the governor being on board? [22:58] We were the governor issued a requirement that local municipalities cooperate with ICE. [23:08] And many municipalities, including the city of Miami, before I became mayor, signed that agreement. [23:14] It is very difficult to unwind. It would take a vote of our city commission to do so. [23:19] So obviously, as mayor, I intend to comply with the law. And so what we have done in our 1500 person [23:25] police department is we have trained three individuals, should ICE call, that are able [23:30] to answer that call and work with them. Obviously, we're going to comply with the law, but we are not [23:37] going to help beyond that. Because in my community in South Florida, we are the most affected. ICE and its [23:46] tactics have been in my community for over a year. They have been causing great fear and terror in our [23:53] residents. I cannot go anywhere without meeting someone, my brother, my uncle, my sister, alligator [24:01] Alcatraz, no sabemos dónde está. We don't know where they have been taken. And that has been going on for [24:07] months. It is inhumane. It is cruel. I'm a Catholic. I can barely grapple with the lack of humanity around all [24:17] this. And then what we have, very differently from any other community, in Miami-Dade County, [24:24] which we are part of, approximately 15 percent of our population has TPS. So you're talking... [24:30] Temporary protected status. Temporary protected status. You're talking about between 250 and 300,000 [24:35] individuals that would, that have slowly but surely, with safe law status, become overnight illegals in the [24:45] eyes of the federal government. And this enforcement in our Nicaraguan community, our Hondureño community, [24:49] our Venezuelan community, has driven many people into hiding. Children are not going to school, [24:56] and obviously ICE is deporting them. Tuesday night, we face a very, very dire situation. [25:03] Our Haitian community loses its access to TPS. At midnight, 20 percent of TPS recipients with Haitian [25:12] Heritage work in health care. So on Wednesday, we are talking about nursing homes, home health care [25:18] aides, hospitals, nurses, physician aides. All of them are going to be out of a job when they wake up on [25:24] Wednesday morning. Because their legal pathway and status is going to be revoked, and suddenly they [25:29] become... Yes. Unnecessarily. Haiti is not safe. Venezuela is not safe. TPS should be extended [25:36] immediately for Venezuelans. It was erased with a stroke of a pen. It could be put in place with [25:40] a stroke of a pen. And TPS for Haitian immigrants should absolutely positively be extended. Our [25:48] economy is at stake, and our humanity is at stake. We're going to watch that developing story. We've [25:55] been talking about it here on Face the Nation. I want to quickly get to you all on one of the big [26:00] drain on resources that we've been seeing, but also possibly a jobs boom, and that's in the tech space, [26:05] particularly with these data centers that are being built. Out in Arizona, of course, taxpayers at the [26:10] national level have funded this huge computer chip investment that's happening out in Arizona. [26:17] How do you balance technological innovation and maintaining access to water and making energy [26:23] affordable? How do you do that? Well, we do it collaboratively with our energy supplier. You [26:29] know, one thing about Arizona, we're really fortunate. We have TSMC, who's the largest semiconductor [26:34] manufacturer in the world in Phoenix. And so that ripple effect with that manufacturer has caused a [26:41] lot of great things for Arizona, especially for Mesa. We have 30 Japanese companies, Korean companies, [26:47] Taiwanese companies at Mesa supplying things for the semiconductor industry. And water is a key thing [26:54] along with that. And we continue to incorporate that. We've worked with Arizona State University on their [27:00] advanced technology. We have, they just opened up a $180 million facility, $100 million worth of [27:07] robots in there to teach about high tech. And that's going to bring jobs. That's going to bring [27:11] affordability to the city of Mesa because then allow people to have high paying jobs and be able to meet [27:17] the needs and demands of living and work. Now, did you want to get into water or? Well, you just sold me [27:25] in all the good things, but you practically are going to have to figure out all the other things too, [27:30] like higher energy prices. And you already said it's not a water crisis, but it's a water issue. [27:36] It is a water issue because I told you that we have a 100 year assured water supply in Arizona, [27:42] and it's a requirement for cities to move forward with that. [27:46] Let me get to you here, Mayor Holt. Energy prices in Oklahoma up 7% year over year. [27:51] How much is the tech boom driving up the energy costs? [27:55] I don't know. I think- Is it? [27:59] I would love for somebody to say Oklahoma City's having a tech boom, actually. [28:04] Well, you've got data centers. [28:05] Well, we're, there's some proposals. Yeah, in the state. There's some proposals coming forward [28:10] to put them in the city. And I think we're still trying to figure out what we really think about [28:14] that. I think we all are. And if you did, if I'd have been on the set six months ago and you asked me [28:18] about data centers, I would, I don't know what you're talking about. This is embarrassing. But, [28:22] but now it's like the, everything. It's a huge, it's a huge issue. We all got them coming forward [28:27] with zoning proposals and, and the need for water and energy. I will say, and we don't have all the [28:36] details at my fingertips, but part of the reason we come together is best practices. And Lansing, [28:40] Michigan would be worth a Google because they recently came to an agreement with somebody opening [28:45] a data center and the mayor shared all that with us this week. And it sounded pretty like a pretty [28:50] good deal. Right. So I think that's going to be, I think we're all trying to find benchmarks and try [28:54] to find like, okay, if we're going to do this, what should we be asking for? And, and the Lansing, [28:59] Michigan model sounded pretty impressive. But I mean, you know, we're all interested in jobs and [29:04] investment in our cities, but obviously we got to make sure the cost benefit analysis ultimately works. [29:09] And last question to you, Mayor Lucas, more than 30 AI data centers in Kansas City. I had no idea. [29:15] Yeah. How are you managing that though? You know, I think it is highly controversial. So you hear [29:19] about the benefits, largely the discussion of the benefits are the revenues that come both to local [29:24] government, obviously the companies, the tech jobs, although there aren't that many that come [29:29] with each data center, the challenges are this. There aren't. Right. You're using a lot of land. [29:34] You are using a lot of utility resources and you're using the grid quite a bit. And so even though you may [29:40] have the best contracts longterm, the question that isn't just at the city level, but really [29:45] for public regulatory commissions at the state level and beyond is how much is too much? How [29:50] much in one community do you want to be dependent on one economic sector? And fundamentally, do you [29:55] want this large scale of a use across the street from somebody's house in their neighborhood with [30:01] all of those challenges? Well, I know we'll be tracking it more on Face the Nation. Thank you all [30:06] for joining us in this bipartisan fashion. Hey, this is Washington. Okay. It's great to see you guys [30:16] sitting down and talking to each other and and having a conversation about real issues that impact [30:21] real people. Thank you all for joining us. We'll be right back.