Face the Nation: Waltz, Kennedy, Gottlieb

[0:00] And we're joined now by the United States ambassador to the United Nations, Mike Waltz. [0:05] Good to have you here in person. [0:06] Thanks, Margaret. [0:07] You just heard our polling. [0:09] The American people support the goals, the stated goals, opening the strait, ending the nuclear program, [0:14] stopping Iran's ability to threaten other countries. [0:16] But they don't think that the U.S. is achieving those goals. [0:19] And 67% want to end the conflict now. [0:23] What happens if the U.S. decides to cut its losses? [0:27] Well, I don't think it should surprise anyone that we want the conflict to end. [0:31] We wanted this conflict to end since 1979. [0:35] I think that's incredibly – but I can tell you as a veteran, Afghanistan, Iraq, these wars, these endless wars were the policy goals. [0:43] What were we doing there drifted so badly. [0:46] The president has been consistently clear on what our goals are. [0:49] I think your poll showed that the American people support those goals. [0:53] Yes, it's been difficult. [0:54] But I, for one, am quite thankful that he is taking the difficult right to do the thing that I think historians will look back on and say was the absolute right thing to do to prevent Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon. [1:08] And sometimes that's going to be harder than, you know, harder than initially planned for. [1:13] But the president's laser-focused on getting this done and achieving those goals that 70, what, 80% of Americans support. [1:20] And, by the way, also important in there is I don't think anyone else sees a better plan that – [1:25] Well, that's what I want to say. [1:25] Yeah, that Democrats, you know, complain, criticize, but no one's coming with a better plan, and the plans in the past administrations have failed. [1:33] Okay, so talk to me about what's happening, because after 13 straight days of bombing, there was no bombing Friday, there was no bombing Saturday. [1:39] Is that to help the diplomacy that was underway in Tehran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz? [1:44] It's giving diplomacy some space. [1:45] It's giving diplomacy a little bit of time. [1:48] Of course, the president tried diplomacy last year. [1:50] He's tried it this year. [1:51] He is a president of peace. [1:53] He is giving diplomacy a chance. [1:56] We'll see over the next coming days. [1:58] But make no mistake, assets, additional military assets are moving into the region. [2:04] They should believe the president. [2:06] The regime should believe the president when he says they're locked and loaded, and all options are on the table. [2:12] So – but just to be – put a fine point on it, this is a round of discussions just to reopen the Strait of Hormuz with a 30-day pause in the fighting. [2:19] No, all conversations are continuing. [2:22] With the goal of getting back to – [2:23] This is at the highest levels, all the way down to the technical levels, to do with the nuclear program, to do with the Straits of Hormuz. [2:30] The diplomacy has not stopped. [2:32] But the bombing did. [2:33] So how long will the bombing stop for to allow for the diplomacy? [2:35] Well, to give that – well, I'm not going to take that option off the table for the president. [2:39] That's up to him. [2:40] Let's see how these conversations go. [2:42] Well, the president said to – [2:44] And by the way, I have to give Oman some credit there. [2:46] They have been engaging in a helpful way. [2:50] Oman. [2:50] Oman, yes. [2:51] I'm sorry. [2:52] So President Trump told Axios that he was close to making a decision and considering a massive attack bigger than ever before. [2:58] That was Thursday. [2:59] Did he make a decision yet? [3:02] I wouldn't advertise that, Margaret. [3:04] Well, it's widely reported there was a big meeting Friday. [3:06] There was a meeting Friday, but there's ongoing meetings. [3:09] There was a senior – [3:10] There was no final decision other than pause. [3:13] He'll make that decision in good time. [3:15] But I also want to address this nonsense that somehow we don't have the assets that we need. [3:20] Not only do we have what we need in theater, there's more moving into theater. [3:24] Well, specifically, CBS has reported we cannot sustain the rate at which the United States has expended precision munitions, [3:29] as we did early in the campaign with Iran, that there is a shortage of interceptors. [3:34] I wish they would also talk about the massive degradation of Iranian munitions that has far less than what they started with, [3:45] not only in their industrial base, but what they have on hand, number one. [3:48] But number two, what if the president had done nothing and they had built that massive conventional shield [3:55] for which they could then hide their breakout behind, then we would have been in trouble. [4:00] Let me take a break because we need to finish this on the other side of it. [4:02] Stay with us, Ambassador, if you would. We'll be right back. [4:10] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [4:11] We return to our conversation with UN Ambassador Mike Waltz. [4:15] So, Ambassador, Ukraine's President Zelensky is headed to Washington this week for Senator Graham's memorial ceremony. [4:24] Zelensky said yesterday that since the beginning of July, [4:27] Ukraine has recorded active Russian satellite surveillance of the Gulf states [4:31] and the U.S. military installations that are located there. [4:35] And he says those images then appear in Iran. [4:39] How deep is the level of Russian involvement in helping Iran target and kill Americans? [4:47] Well, I think you've seen this symbiotic relationship with Russia-Iran, particularly with the Iranian drones. [4:52] Now, that manufacturing capability has been devastated in Iran itself, [4:58] but Iran has been providing drones and drone technology to Russia that they are then using on Kyiv. [5:04] In terms of the active help, look, I'll just let the president's statement this week stand on its own, [5:10] that he has spoken to both Putin and Xi about this and has put both on notice, frankly, [5:17] that they should not be assisting and that bad things will happen if they are. [5:22] This would suggest that they haven't stopped assisting. [5:26] Zelensky says that's happening in July. [5:29] Okay. [5:29] Well, we'll let Zelensky's statement, I think, just stand on its own, [5:35] but the president's statement is out there as well. [5:37] Okay. [5:38] Let me ask you about Saudi Arabia. [5:41] We know exporting America's nuclear technology is a priority for the president. [5:45] He had an executive order on it. [5:47] He wants to help build these data centers in the Gulf. [5:49] Those things rely on nuclear energy. [5:52] There are partners of ours that have civilian nuclear energy program. [5:57] But there was blowback against the administration this week when news broke of the commercial deal [6:03] that was signed between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to build this civilian nuclear program on Saudi soil. [6:11] Were you surprised at that level of blowback? [6:14] Yeah, Margaret, I think there's a misunderstanding about what's in the deal. [6:19] This is civil nuclear power, just like we have with the United Arab Emirates, [6:25] the 1-2-3 agreement that we've had for over a decade. [6:28] There is no enrichment technology being provided to the Saudis. [6:32] That will be done here in the United States. [6:34] It's some of our most sensitive technology. [6:37] And people, I think, need to understand that countries around the world have been buying from Russia, [6:43] have been buying from China. [6:45] President Trump has initiated a nuclear renaissance here at home when it comes to nuclear power. [6:50] We want our partners buying from us. [6:52] They will be buying civil nuclear reactors from the United States with full inspections in place [6:57] and no enrichment happening on Saudi soil. [6:59] So on the enrichment point, as I understand it, the deal, which was a version of what the Biden administration [7:05] had also been working on but not closed, that it would have a study to look into how much uranium Saudi has [7:12] and if it's commercially viable, that they would be able potentially to enrich on their own soil. [7:18] There's a clause in the deal that says it can be discussed if mutually agreed by both sides sometime in the future. [7:24] Right. Two-year study for this to possibly happen. [7:27] For some open-ended discussion. [7:30] But as the deal stands now, there is no enrichment capability being provided to the Saudis for them to do on their own. [7:36] But there is power. [7:37] Right. [7:37] And that's incredibly important. [7:39] They want to diversify. [7:40] And again, I want them buying from us, not the Chinese or Russians. [7:43] But, and I focus on the enrichment because that is that key difference from what, for example, the Emirates have. [7:49] They buy their nuclear fuel elsewhere. [7:51] And that's what this deal is, to buy the nuclear fuel from us. [7:54] But it's got that pathway to enrichment and that panicked some people this week, it would seem. [7:58] And there was some criticism as well that the president then posted the next day, oh, well, now it's going to be dependent on Saudi Arabia joining the Abraham Accords. [8:09] Which was not in the deal. [8:10] I mean, it shouldn't surprise anyone. [8:11] The president's been talking about the Abraham Accords, having the Saudis. [8:14] Well, it wasn't in the Saudi agreement. [8:15] Having the Saudis join and, you know, and the president has made that part of this agreement, which is, he's absolutely right to do, number one. [8:25] And number two, there was also these kind of odd comparisons to Iran. [8:28] How can you have the Saudis having nuclear power when Iran's trying to seek the same thing, which is just ridiculous. [8:35] I mean, they're burying it under hundreds of feet of granite in Iran. [8:40] They have kicked out the inspectors. [8:43] This is the largest state sponsor of terrorism year after year, decade after decade in world history. [8:49] Completely different issue. [8:50] It's actually all of the things that Iran is violating, which is why we are stopping and seeking to stop their pursuit of a nuclear weapon. [8:59] But having civil nuclear power provided by the United States is perfectly fine and should be applauded. [9:04] Just before I let you on that, does the U.S. want to help other countries enrich? [9:08] And then secondly, doesn't changing the terms of a deal after it was signed undermine America's negotiating position with all countries? [9:16] Like, who's going to trust us if we say, oh, tomorrow, add in a new term after we've signed the deal? [9:20] Do we want to help other countries enrich? [9:23] That is, we do that and very select countries do that. [9:27] And there is an entire, there's a non-proliferation treaty. [9:29] There's an entire international, the IAEA, the U.N. agency that sends these inspectors out to ensure that countries cannot do what Iran has been doing, [9:39] which is enriching way past, yeah, way past what you need for civil nuclear power that can only be used for weapons. [9:47] And that's why we are absolutely convinced and we know Iran is seeking a nuclear weapons program. [9:52] Right. Well, I mean, we could keep going on this, but I know that I have a Republican senator who has some thoughts on the matter as well up next. [9:59] I've got to leave it there with you. Thank you, Ambassador Waltz. We'll be right back. [10:04] We turn now to Republican Senator John Kennedy, who joins us this morning from Madisonville, Louisiana. [10:10] Senator, it's good to have you on the program. [10:13] I've got a lot to get to with you. [10:16] Let me just button up where I left it with Ambassador Waltz, if I could, [10:19] because that Saudi civil nuclear deal he was just discussing, it's got to go to you. [10:25] It's got to go to Congress for approval. [10:27] Are you comfortable with it? [10:30] No. Maybe someday, but not right now. [10:39] We're bombing a country to keep them from getting a nuclear weapon, [10:44] but we're signing a deal with another country. [10:46] I know it's a commercial agreement, but that the world perceives as possibly someday leading to a nuclear weapon. [10:55] The world's on a hair trigger. [10:57] The world looks at what's going on in Ukraine, the Middle East. [11:04] The world looks at America's relationship now with Europe. [11:09] People are scared. [11:11] That's why I say hair trigger. [11:12] And if you're running Japan or South Korea or Australia or Brazil or some countries in Europe, [11:21] you're at least thinking about the need to acquire a nuclear weapon. [11:28] And then you see this deal with Saudi Arabia, and it's just not good timing. [11:35] I think someday it might be. [11:37] I don't think it's going to happen anyway because the president's conditioned it on Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel, [11:48] and they're not going to do that. [11:50] Well, Saudi has said they'd be willing to, but they want a pathway for the Palestinians. [11:54] The Israeli politics at the moment don't make that sound limited by any stretch. [11:59] And the president's going to say, the president's going to point out correctly [12:02] that we've got 26 of these one, two, three agreements with other countries. [12:07] Yes. [12:07] But the timing's not good. [12:10] Understood. [12:12] It got a lot of attention this week. [12:14] You were pretty sharp in your questioning there of the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, [12:19] when he asked for $67 billion in funding for the Iran war. [12:24] You said, just like our poll shows, you need more information. [12:28] Did you get an agreement that you will be provided the classified, detailed briefing that you say is necessary? [12:35] I'm having breakfast next Wednesday with General Cain. [12:43] I've seen the poll. [12:45] It looks about right. [12:47] I support the president in Iran. [12:49] We all need to do a better job messaging. [12:52] I may end up with a sombrero on my head by saying this, but we all know the president. [13:00] He exists loudly. [13:03] He grows anxious when he has an unexpressed thought. [13:08] He's not always disciplined in his messaging. [13:11] I'm not saying he should stop talking. [13:14] He's the president. [13:14] And I'm not, but I would put Rubio and Cain and Radcliffe and Hedgeseth out there either in a speech or in a long press conference to explain what's going on in Iran, why we went in, why we're still there. [13:28] Now, the Democrats, I listen to Bernie. [13:32] Bernie wants to just come home. [13:34] He wants to turn out the lights, make sure the cat's inside and go to bed. [13:39] That would be a huge, huge mistake. [13:43] Well, it's interesting because 67% of Americans want the war to end now. [13:48] And during that questioning, you floated the idea to General Cain, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, that the U.S. could stop in Iran, end the blockade and bring troops home. [13:57] He didn't lay out for you the potential consequences. [13:59] But why did you ask that question? [14:02] You're not advocating it. [14:04] Why are you asking it? [14:06] Because I wanted to know the answer. [14:08] Look, here's what I think we ought to do. [14:12] I think we ought to tighten the sanctions on the sale of Iranian oil. [14:17] I think we ought to continue the blockade and starve them out. [14:22] I think we ought to bomb Pickaxe Mountain and try to reach what's underneath it. [14:29] I don't know about, I don't have enough information to know about continuing the attacks. [14:35] The president likes the daily attacks. [14:37] He believes that sometimes you have to kill a few chickens to scare the monkeys. [14:44] I don't think that's going to work with the Iranian leadership. [14:48] These people are more than mildly insane. [14:51] It's like dealing with Son of Sam or Charles Manchin. [14:55] But I don't think we ought to just cut and run. [14:57] If we can stand the pain of the rising cost of energy, we need to stay the course, at least for a few more months. [15:07] I also don't think we need to send in troops. [15:10] That's my opinion for what it's worth. [15:13] Senator Lindsey Graham is going to be laid to rest this week in memorial service. [15:17] One of the things that he wanted up until his death was financial restrictions on the biggest buyers of Russian oil. [15:26] There are 62 signatories to that bill, filibuster-proof majority. [15:32] Will it get voted on before the Senate breaks for summer? [15:37] Don't know. [15:39] And let me say, look, with respect to the Senate, doing nothing is hard because you never know when you're finished. [15:45] We need to put the House budget resolution on the floor. [15:51] It's the only chance we have to get money to defense the farmers and to take another crack at the SAVE Act. [15:58] We need to add Iran to the Graham Russian sanctions bill and vote on it. [16:04] We need to put the cryptocurrency market structure bill on the floor and vote on it. [16:11] All in two weeks. [16:11] I love John Thune and maybe take a few extra days. [16:17] Look, I mean no disrespect. [16:19] I love John Thune. [16:20] He's my leader. [16:21] He's got a big brain. [16:23] He's better looking than me. [16:26] But I think he's just being too cautious. [16:29] He wants to spend the rest of our time talking with Senator Schumer about shutting down government. [16:35] And the Graham Plattner wing of the party, his party, is not going to let Schumer agree with us. [16:42] They already want to give Schumer a bathrobe, a popsicle, and an early bedtime and have him retire. [16:49] I don't think Chuck can agree with us. [16:51] I think he's going to shut down government. [16:54] I want to go back. [16:54] You just said you wanted to move forward on what the House just started the process on. [16:59] That would be a party line vote. [17:02] That would be Republicans jamming this thing through. [17:05] And the SAVE Act, as you know, or even some version of it, is highly partisan, highly controversial. [17:13] Bigger picture. [17:14] Isn't it going to hurt faith in our election process if a Republican-only policy to change how elections are run is rammed through less than 100 days out from the election? [17:26] No. [17:28] In my opinion, for both sides to have credibility in the elections, in our elections, we need to do two things and only two things. [17:37] Number one, you have to prove you are who you say you are in order to register to vote and to vote. [17:44] And number two, however you decide to vote, that's up to the states. [17:48] We need to go back to having an election day, not an election month. [17:53] We've got to know the results of the election that night or shortly thereafter if it's close. [18:00] That, to me, is what the SAVE Act is all about. [18:03] And I think we can pass it. [18:05] And I think we can craft it in a way to survive a birdbath. [18:09] Grants, in other words. [18:10] But we're not going to know if we don't try. [18:12] Grants, in other words, to states to incentivize, not requirements for states to take action. [18:16] Yeah, but that's your version. [18:17] That's not the only thing. [18:19] I've been contacted by some really smart people about a way to do it in addition to the grants. [18:26] I'm not saying it will work, but you're not going to know unless you try. [18:29] All right. [18:30] Senator Kennedy, a lot of business to get to. [18:33] I'm going to have to leave it there, though. [18:35] Thank you so much for joining us today. [18:37] Appreciate your time. [18:38] Thank you, Mark. [18:39] We'll be right back. [18:41] We turn now to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. [18:44] He sits on the boards of Pfizer and UnitedHealth. [18:47] Dr. Gottlieb, it's good to have you back. [18:49] We've got cyclospora outbreaks in nine states. [18:53] It is now one of the nation's largest foodborne illness outbreaks. [18:59] HHS Secretary Kennedy says it's under control. [19:02] Do you think it is? [19:03] I don't think it's under control yet, per se. [19:08] I think that they've done a good job. [19:09] FDA has isolating this to central Mexico and some specific farms as well. [19:13] It appears that a lot of these cases are emanating from farms in central Mexico, [19:17] and there was probably some kind of event there. [19:19] Remember, this particular parasite, the only known reservoir for it is human fecal matter. [19:24] So probably sewage got onto those growing fields in central Mexico and contaminated those crops. [19:30] Nobody's sure how yet. [19:32] And so by isolating it to that region, a lot of restaurants, a lot of wholesalers, [19:36] retailers have been able to cut off supplies from central Mexico. [19:39] And I think that mitigates the risk. [19:42] I don't think this is fully under control yet because we don't know for sure that that's the only growing region where this is coming from. [19:46] But it does seem to be the case at this point. [19:49] Some of the cases that are being reported right now probably are cases happening from other parts of the world and other parts of the country [19:55] that are normal background cases that you see. [19:58] There's probably increased reporting. [20:00] But clearly the bulk of these cases appear to be coming from that central Mexican region. [20:03] And it's worth noting that Mexican authorities, public health authorities, deny that they're responsible for this. [20:09] Well, I saw you recommended people buy heads of lettuce, not pre-chopped bags, buy locally, not from the grocery store. [20:16] Why aren't we hearing more from the current FDA commissioner on that kind of advice? [20:23] Yeah, look, I think that there is some challenges with communications from the FDA. [20:27] I think FDA has done a good job isolating this, and they were fast to do this. [20:31] This is a hard pathogen to detect. [20:33] There's no really good test for it, so you can't test for it in food. [20:37] But there hasn't been as much communication from the agency as you might expect. [20:41] There are things that consumers can do. [20:42] You can buy a whole head of lettuce, like you said, and chop it up rather than buying bagged lettuce. [20:46] It's higher risk with bagged lettuce. [20:48] You can source locally. [20:49] There haven't been known outbreaks from locally sourced produce. [20:52] Prior to 2016, 2017, we never saw this particular species in U.S.-sourced produce. [20:59] It started to appear in California produce, but certainly in lower levels than what you see in Mexico and South America. [21:06] There is a weather component here. [21:08] There is, though, as you know, a public confidence crisis here when it comes to our health agencies. [21:16] Our polling showed 47 percent of Americans do not have much confidence in the FDA to deal with the outbreak. [21:22] That must hit hard as a former FDA commissioner. [21:26] But it's also, in part, in the public space, they're looking not just at the personnel cuts, [21:31] but like the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Taylor Farms, [21:34] one of the companies that has been identified as selling some of the lettuce, at least, that is in question, [21:42] they contacted the White House to request a delay in announcing a recall, [21:47] and the White House had the FDA join that call. [21:51] That is not standard operating procedure, is it? [21:55] No, it's not. [21:58] And it wasn't standard operating procedure. [22:00] When I was at FDA, I dealt with outbreaks in romaine lettuce and spinach as well, [22:05] E. coli and spinach and romaine lettuce. [22:06] I never heard from the White House on those things, other than to have discussions to inform them of what we were doing [22:12] so that they were properly briefed and could respond to questions that they were getting. [22:15] So it's unusual. [22:16] I don't think it really led to a significant delay in the ability of FDA to communicate in this case, [22:21] based on that reporting, probably days, certainly not weeks. [22:24] I think the breakdown here really was with CDC and identifying that initial cluster. [22:29] By and large, we were dependent upon public health officials in Michigan to isolate that cluster. [22:33] CDC really didn't seem to be as involved as the agency normally would be. [22:37] Michigan public health officials led that response. [22:40] Once they isolated the cluster, however, the traceback to the farm and to the particular food source happened relatively fast. [22:47] We had an outbreak of E. coli and romaine lettuce back in 2018. [22:50] It took us many weeks to isolate that to a specific growing region. [22:53] They were able to do that in a matter of maybe days here, certainly weeks. [22:57] So I think FDA worked pretty quickly to do it. [22:59] I want to ask you about the CDC announcement that there are now more measles infections in 2026 than in the past 35 years. [23:10] The American Academy of Pediatrics warns it's America's children that are going to pay the price for this. [23:17] 93% of this year's cases are among the unvaccinated or the vaccination status is unknown. [23:23] Should we, at any point, expect the Trump administration to lead a national campaign to get your kid vaccinated against measles? [23:31] Or did that die with Maha? [23:37] Yeah, look, I think we need to accept that measles elimination is no longer the policy of this administration or certainly Secretary Kennedy. [23:43] And I wouldn't expect any kind of concerted effort so long as he is in that position. [23:48] This is his stated policy to, in some cases, discourage vaccination, but certainly not encourage it. [23:54] And the children who aren't getting vaccinated right now are babies. [23:57] Once they age into settings where they can contract that disease, kindergarten, preschool, daycare, you're going to see cases continue to rise in this country. [24:05] It's not going to go down. [24:06] It's going to continue to go up. [24:07] Look at flu, for example. [24:08] We had a record number of pediatric flu deaths last year, 298 pediatric flu deaths. [24:13] We have almost 200 this year. [24:15] And the secretary has said children don't need to get vaccinated for flu. [24:17] So this is across the board. [24:18] It's not just measles. [24:20] These infections are very serious. [24:22] There's a lot of long-term sequelae, even if you survive the infection. [24:25] Let me quickly ask you, supplement makers don't have to do what pharmaceutical companies do in terms of proving through clinical trials that products are safe. [24:33] There's this push for this advisory board at the FDA to make, I guess, six peptides be added to a list of substances pharmacies can compound and produce. [24:45] Is that wider access a good thing or a bad thing? [24:51] Well, I think it's a bad thing from the standpoint that there's not any proven benefits from these compounds that are in question. [24:57] These are compounds being formulated by pharmacies. [24:59] They're compounded products. [25:01] They're peptides that people inject. [25:03] There's risks associated with that, and there aren't any proven benefits. [25:06] The most popular of these is a substance called PBC-157, which people have prescribed a whole range of health benefits to. [25:14] The only clinical study that the FDA was able to review was a 30-patient clinical study in a setting of ulcerative colitis where they found no benefit. [25:20] So there isn't clinical data associated with these. [25:22] So I think there's risk with no demonstrated benefit that people are going to derive. [25:28] Dr. Gottlieb, I've got to leave it there. [25:29] Always good to talk to you. [25:32] We'll be right back. [25:32] Thanks a lot. [25:33] That's going to do it for us today. [25:36] Thank you all for watching. [25:38] Until next week, for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.