Face the Nation: Shapiro, Becker, Salvanto

[0:00] Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is running for re-election and stumping for fellow Democrats in [0:05] the state in the lead up to Tuesday. We caught up with him late last week in Phoenixville, [0:09] just outside Philadelphia, and asked about Democrats working with President Trump if the [0:14] House does change hands. But there'll be a check on his corruption and hopefully have real leverage [0:22] to roll back the Medicaid cuts, to roll back the snap cuts, to make sure that there's real [0:27] responsibility and accountability in Washington, D.C., something we have not had when Republicans [0:33] have had a trifecta there. So Homeland Security said that in this state there are as many as 14,576 [0:40] non-citizens that could be registered to vote in Pennsylvania. Did they provide information to [0:44] back up that claim? And what did your own investigation find? Yeah, could is the operative [0:50] word. As soon as we received that from the federal government, we immediately responded and said, [0:55] look, if you have information of illegal voters who are on our rolls, we want that information [1:01] because we don't want them casting a ballot here in Pennsylvania. I'm very serious about it. Look, [1:06] I'm the former chief law enforcement officer of this commonwealth. I have prosecuted election fraud [1:11] cases. I don't want anyone voting who's not a legal eligible voter. Did they back that up? Of course, [1:16] when we responded to the Trump administration, they provided no backup. So it was a press release [1:21] designed to get some attention for their false narrative. Listen, the first appointment I made [1:26] when I was elected governor was of the secretary of state. That's the person that administers [1:31] elections here in the state. A Republican named Al Schmidt. I chose him, even though I'm a Democrat, [1:38] because I think the administration of elections should be nonpartisan. Al Schmidt, in his career [1:43] of running elections, has done more to root out corruption than anything that's ever been done [1:49] in the Trump administration. We take that very, very seriously. And the Trump administration [1:54] has never provided a shred of evidence to suggest that there are people on our rolls who are [2:00] ineligible. If they have it, I want it, and we will act on it immediately. A recent CBS investigation [2:06] found Pennsylvania was one of the states where Homeland Security has been going door to door. [2:11] They've been knocking on doors and asking about the immigration status of people who live there. [2:17] What can you tell us about what DHS has been doing here? And did the administration coordinate with [2:23] you as governor in any way? No. And I want to make very, very clearly the Pennsylvania State Police [2:29] does not do DHS's work for them, does not do ICE's work for them. We do not ask immigration status. [2:37] In fact, when ICE came here and tried to bully their way into building two massive detention centers [2:44] here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, one in Berks County, one in Schuylkill County, [2:48] I fought back and won and drove those detention centers out of Pennsylvania. [2:53] How many non-citizen voters did you find? [2:56] Well, what they said was that there were whatever the number was, over a thousand people. So we said, [3:02] great, tell us who they are so we can check their status. They never told us who they were. And so [3:09] it is impossible for us to be able to check the people that they claim to have identified. [3:15] I will tell you, we've got very, very strict guardrails in place, led by Secretary Schmidt, [3:20] constantly making sure that the people who are on our voter rolls are legal eligible voters. [3:26] And if we find that someone is not, if a mistake was made in a county where someone [3:30] was registering as an example, we immediately get on that. We work with prosecutors to ensure [3:36] that they are not in a position to cast a ballot. [3:40] And we'll have more from our conversation with Governor Shapiro in our next half hour. [3:44] We'll be right back. [3:50] Welcome back to Face the Nation. We continue our conversation with Pennsylvania Governor [3:54] Josh Shapiro. [3:56] So you did speak recently with Philadelphia Inquirer's editorial board, [4:00] and you told them that you think President Trump and his allies are going to try and stop [4:04] votes from being counted. [4:06] Yes. [4:06] You also said you expect Speaker Johnson to make efforts to delay seating new members [4:11] if Republicans lose the majority. Why are you raising these concerns now? And do you think [4:17] at all that you might be undermining faith in the process? [4:20] Yeah. Well, respectfully, I was answering their question as to whether or not I thought the [4:25] Trump administration would take steps to try and undermine our elections. So just to offer [4:30] some context to that. And I did issue those answers. And I'll tell you why. Because I have lived [4:36] through this before with the Trump administration. Back in 2020, I was the attorney general and Trump [4:42] lost the election here in Pennsylvania and tried to undermine the counting of the vote. In fact, [4:47] he and his enablers sued me 43 different times to try and throw out the votes of certain [4:54] Pennsylvanians. Heck, even my opponent went to court to throw out the votes of people in Bucks County. [4:59] I won every single one of those cases. Went 43 and 0. Trump went 0 and 43. And so we are prepared [5:06] should they try to do that again this time. In fact, we put together a task force more than a [5:11] year ago when Trump began to hint at the idea that he would once again take that tack. So we are [5:17] prepared in the courtroom should they go forward and try and undermine the right to vote. Now, more [5:23] recently, we've seen further evidence of this president trying to undermine the right to vote. [5:28] In signing that bogus executive order, trying to make it so people here in Pennsylvania and across [5:32] America couldn't vote by mail. I sued him. I won. And we protected the right to vote. [5:37] So again, this was a in response to a question and be based on a history of dealing with a guy [5:43] who is constantly trying to undermine the right to vote here in our commonwealth. [5:47] So I want to ask about you. Brian Fitzpatrick, who represents Bucks County, Republican here in [5:53] Pennsylvania, describes you as a good man, a friend. He said you're smart. [5:57] Competent. He said he thinks you're going to run for president. And Senator Chris Coons, who was [6:02] just here earlier of Delaware, said a Democrat, if you win Pennsylvania, you win the whole presidency. [6:09] It's a good argument for you as a candidate. It's a Republican. That's a Democrat speculating. [6:15] Are they wrong to speculate like that? Well, I wouldn't be focused on speculating. I'd be focused [6:19] on these midterms, which is all I'm focused on. You know, we talked here today, not just about [6:24] my reelection, but the fact that I'm working hard to elect four more Democrats to Congress, [6:29] to tilt the balance of power, take the gavel away from Mike Johnson, working hard to win a trifecta [6:36] here in Harrisburg, something that hasn't been done since 1992. We have some gerrymandered state [6:41] Senate districts, but I'm hopeful that we're going to be able to get that done this time. [6:45] If you win reelection in this position now to be governor, to get everything done you want to get [6:51] done, do you have to serve the whole term? Well, I'm going to focus on getting done what I've pledged [6:56] to get done here and continuing to listen, see and do and make a lot of good things happen for the [7:02] people of Pennsylvania as their governor. People like me are just going to continue to ask you. [7:05] Well, you're willing to ask. And look, I'm humbled that you would ask that question. I'm humbled by the [7:11] responses the senator and the representative gave you. But the only thing I'm focused on [7:15] is here in Pennsylvania winning up and down the ballot. So when you spoke to the editorial board [7:20] recently, you said six people were recently charged in the past nine months. They reported [7:27] as making terroristic threats or ethnic intimidation against you or your family. You've said it has [7:34] its weight on you. Yeah. What did you mean by that? [7:38] You know, a year and a half ago, my family and I finished celebrating our Passover Seder with the [7:44] community. And, you know, someone broke into the governor's residence through Molotov cocktails [7:52] throughout the home, destroyed about a third of the residents, and was running through the [7:57] residence with a metal hammer that he said he was going to use to beat me to death when he found me. [8:02] And he's behind bars now for the next 50 years. But since that time, even more people have [8:09] threatened me and my wife, our family, threatened us based on how I worship. And it weighs on you, [8:17] certainly to know that there are people out there trying to do you harm. But I would also tell you, [8:22] it motivates me to keep doing what I do, to not let the bad guys win, to not let those. [8:29] I mean, you look at this campaign right now, some of the rhetoric in states out now, Ohio, [8:34] in Michigan. It's downright hateful. It's dangerous. It's hateful. [8:39] Get rid of that. How do you lower that? I think what you do is try and lead by example, [8:44] as we all here, as we are trying to do here, as I am trying to do here, [8:48] try and bring back kindness in the face of the cruelty that we see from this president. [8:54] I've got profound differences from the person I'm running against, from the president and others. [8:59] But I don't think engaging in cruelty is the answer. I think it makes everyone less safe. [9:04] But what I was saying in response to your question a moment ago, it weighs on me, but it doesn't [9:10] control me. In fact, my family and I met before we decided to run for reelection. And everybody [9:17] agreed, we can't let the bad guys win. We've got to keep going forward. You've got to stand up against [9:22] the hate. You've got to lead by example. And you've got to try and bring some decency back to this country. [9:27] Let's talk about Pennsylvania. This state is in the midst of one of the worst [9:32] measles outbreaks the United States has seen in three decades. In this county, a school here, [9:39] had to close for a day earlier this month because of a confirmed case of measles. [9:44] This is highly transmissible. How do you get this under control? [9:48] We've got five deaths in Pennsylvania, 1,500 people sickened by measles, [9:56] a disease that was eliminated in the year 2000 in the United States of America. [10:02] And it's come roaring back largely because of vaccine misinformation and disinformation [10:09] promoted by a quack conspiracy theorist, RFK, who Donald Trump has now put in charge of our nation's [10:17] healthcare system. Now, here in Pennsylvania, I believe in making sure people have access to the [10:22] information, that there is vaccines available to them. It is a personal choice if they wish to get [10:28] it. But what is critically important is that they hear from an actual medical provider, an actual [10:36] medical expert, not RFK, who can explain that the MMR vaccine, that's the measles vaccine, [10:42] is highly effective and the best way to protect yourself against this measles outbreak. Make no [10:48] mistake. You can draw a straight line between the nonsense that RFK has been spewing for years [10:54] and now his work as the leading public health official in this country and people getting sick [11:00] here in my state and across the country. How do we get control of it now is the second part of your [11:05] question. You do what we're doing here in the Commonwealth, bringing all of our healthcare partners [11:10] together and working to provide actual medical information to people in our Commonwealth and making [11:18] sure they get access to the vaccine and encouraging them to take it. Now, here's some data for you. [11:23] Typically, our Department of Health working with our healthcare partners would vaccinate around 25,000 [11:29] people a month since the measles outbreak. And my encouragement and Dr. Bogan, our health secretary's [11:35] encouragement to get vaccinated. We're now up to 55,000 vaccines being administered a month. [11:41] So, Pennsylvanians are doing what we do best, coming together, looking out for our neighbors [11:46] and trusting science, something RFK continually tries to undermine. [11:50] So, you clashed with HHS Secretary Kennedy in September, pretty publicly. You had a back and [11:56] forth over what happened, what was driving the measles problem in this state. The CDC now [12:01] recognizes three measles-associated deaths. That's fewer than the five that your state health department [12:07] has seen. You just accepted CDC help. Do you have any regrets about how you handled this? [12:15] No, and respectfully, that's not accurate. First, RFK denied that anyone died here in Pennsylvania, [12:23] literally poked his finger in the eye of these families here in Pennsylvania. [12:26] Well, he disputed death due to measles. Respectfully, first he said, I fabricated it. [12:32] First, he said, I lied about it, which we didn't. We know these people died. It's been confirmed, [12:37] not just by our state health department, but also by independent coroners. Then, [12:44] they tried to play games with the number of deaths. And you correctly point out that he's only acknowledged [12:48] three of those deaths. As it relates to working with CDC, we've had people embedded here from CDC in our [12:56] State Department of Health before the measles outbreak. And we did accept one additional person [13:01] that they were asking us to accept. An intelligence service officer. [13:05] Yeah, one person to help with tracking. By the way, this isn't like they're sending a thousand people [13:10] here to vaccinate. Folks, it was one additional person, and we gladly accepted them. And CDC had been [13:15] here for, you know, again, prior to this outbreak. But the fact that RFK claims that we're lying about this, [13:22] he's doing that because it doesn't fit his narrative. Remember, he's the guy who went to [13:26] Lancaster, the epicenter of this outbreak, and said, you don't need the vaccine. Just take a bunch of [13:30] chicken soup and you'll be fine. You're talking about before he was the HHS Secretary. [13:34] This guy, he is not qualified to serve as America's top public health official. [13:38] He is not a health expert. And he is constantly undermining public health here in the Commonwealth of [13:45] Pennsylvania and across the country. He's unfit to lead. Donald Trump should remove him, [13:50] and that will help all of us do a better job of beating this disease that was eliminated [13:55] in the United States back in the year 2000, but has come roaring back, sadly, [13:59] because of his vaccine misinformation and disinformation campaign. [14:03] But do you worry at all that the degree to which this has now become a political fight [14:07] or the politicization of health will make it that much harder for you to persuade people to go [14:13] get the shots? Not at all. Not at all. RFK politicized this. RFK is playing games with this. [14:18] And in fact, if you look at the work we're doing here in Pennsylvania, it's working. [14:22] We went from vaccinating about 25,000 people a month to over 55,000 people a month because people [14:29] trust actual public health experts here in Pennsylvania, not the nonsense that is being [14:34] spewed by RFK Jr. We've reached out to HHS for comment on the governor's criticisms, [14:39] but we have not yet received a response. You can watch the extended interview on our YouTube [14:43] channel or on facethenation.com. We'll be right back. And we're joined now by our CBS News election [14:51] law contributor and the executive director of the Center for Election Innovation and Research, [14:55] David Becker. David, good to have you here. So each state, they have their own systems, [15:00] their own timeline for poll closings and for vote counting. Some places, early votes already in, [15:06] but when will we know results? Well, we're going to know results, not because of the factor of how fast [15:12] states are counting. Look, the election officials in every county, in every state are going to be [15:17] working all night long, trying to get the ballots reported out. The biggest variable is how close [15:22] the elections are, because when you talk to someone like Anthony Salvanto, who will tell you if it's [15:27] really close, they just need more ballots in before they can make a call to say for sure the person in [15:31] second place can't come in, can't win the race. So in a lot of states where we haven't seen close [15:37] elections before, we're going to see close elections in all likelihood. And it might take days a day, [15:41] like a state like Alaska in particular, where they're already well behind Eastern time. [15:45] They've got very remote voting all over the place. They're going to bring ballots in from all over [15:49] the place to count them. And if the election's really close, it could be several days. That's [15:53] normal. And everything that's going on in the election offices all over the country is under [15:58] observation. There are Republican and Democratic observers at all times watching the ballots counted, [16:03] watching the mail ballots being opened, etc. So people should know there's nothing going on. [16:07] This is just a normal process and elections might be close. It might take a few days. [16:10] And who are those monitors? Usually people who are appointed by the parties, [16:14] either the Democratic or Republican Party representing candidates in many times or campaigns. [16:19] That's very normal. That's the way it was in 2020. Even during COVID, there were [16:23] literally thousands upon thousands of monitors and observers all over the place. [16:27] So the parties are well represented. They're seeing everything that's going on. And as soon as [16:33] the results come in and we see them, they're aware of them. Let's talk about Alaska. It is [16:37] ranked choice voting. It's a little different in that way. This morning on CNN, Republican Dan [16:43] Sullivan, the incumbent senator, said he will accept the results of the election if he loses. [16:50] As we discussed on this program last Sunday with Attorney General Todd Blanche, the Justice [16:54] Department is seeking to stop certification of a possible Democratic win due to ballot confusion with what [17:00] the New York Times has reported is this Democratic scheme to stack the ballot in a confusing way to [17:07] disadvantage the senator. Yesterday, just to update everyone, Alaska's Republican-led state government [17:14] urged a federal judge to dismiss the lawsuit that the DOJ filed. They said it was meritless. [17:22] That's right. [17:22] So doesn't this need to be settled by a federal judge before election day? [17:27] It really doesn't. I mean, it'd be nice if a federal judge dismisses the DOJ's lawsuit, [17:31] as so many courts have across the country in these last-minute lawsuits that have been brought [17:35] seemingly mainly to create an impression of chaos. They're failing. But in Alaska, in particular, [17:41] it would be nice if we got a federal court ruling. We might get one. But Alaska's courts have ruled [17:45] on this, including their Supreme Court. Right. [17:47] They ruled that both Dan Sullivans can be on the ballot. We've seen the ballot. You've shown the [17:52] ballot before. It's pretty clear that the Alaska Division of Elections run by the Lieutenant Governor [17:57] there, a Republican, has done a really good job of making it as unconfusing as it can be. And with [18:02] that ranked choice voting, even if someone still wasn't sure and they ranked both Dan Sullivan's first [18:08] and second, by the second round, all of those votes would go to whatever candidate got the most, [18:13] presumably the incumbent senator. I'm not surprised Senator Sullivan says he will [18:17] accept the results. Of course, this is Alaska defending its state's sovereignty and its right [18:23] and authority over elections in the state of Alaska as guaranteed by the United States Constitution. [18:28] It's good to see the Republican governor and Republican Lieutenant Governor there in Alaska [18:33] defending their sovereignty as strongly as they are. But even Democrats, as I've said before, [18:37] have said this does look bad. This looks like dirty pool. It looks like they're playing dirty. [18:40] There's dirty pool. Both parties do this. It shouldn't happen. Right now in Nevada, [18:45] there are two candidates named forward running for governor. We're not sure what the circumstances of [18:50] that are. One of them is the major Democratic candidate. We've seen Elon Musk bankroll Cornell [18:56] West's presidential campaign in 2024. These kinds of things shouldn't happen. I don't think there's any [19:01] question. But it's pretty normal politics, unfortunately. And Alaska's courts and Alaska state law has already [19:09] ruled on this. There are other states, California, Washington state, where we're seeing federal [19:14] scrutiny. What are you monitoring here? Well, what's really remarkable is there's so much last minute [19:20] litigation alleging allegedly non-citizens on the voter lists, alleging problems with the process [19:27] coming from the DOJ. This Department of Justice has been in power for nearly two years. They have had [19:32] the full power of the federal government to investigate any claims. And as you heard from Governor Shapiro, [19:37] when they've made political statements on this in the press, when they've been asked to show their [19:42] work, they've hit the ball. They have not shared information with California, with Pennsylvania, [19:46] with other states. And now they bring these last minute lawsuits and they are being rejected [19:50] soundly by every court, including by Trump appointed judges in most cases. I think this is a good sign. I [19:56] think this is a good sign that the administration is running out of gas here on this effort to [20:01] sow confusion in the election. And the courts are holding firm. And most importantly, [20:05] the election officials are holding firm. As you and I are talking right now, the last time I checked, [20:10] it was over 53 million ballots already cast all over this country. We're going to see the record, [20:15] by the way, in a midterm election is 118 million ballots cast. We are definitely going to get well [20:21] over half that before election day even comes. We might see a record turnout. It looks like that's [20:27] highly possible. We're certainly seeing it in places like Texas, where 7.7 million ballots have [20:33] already been cast as we're sitting here talking. And their record for a midterm election is 8.375 [20:39] million total. So they're about they're just over about 600,000 or so ballots away from their highest [20:46] turnout ever. And we are days before the election. Election day hasn't even happened yet. That's [20:51] remarkable. That's fascinating level of participation. David, thank you for breaking it [20:57] down. And I know we'll be talking to you in the days and weeks to come. We'll be back in a moment. [21:01] For an election day preview, we go now to our elections and surveys executive director, [21:06] Anthony Salvato, who joins us from New York. Anthony, in the Senate, I understand that the [21:13] list of battleground states might be growing in these final days. What are you finding? [21:18] Hey there, Margaret. Indeed, it is because we have added South Carolina to our battleground list. [21:24] It still leans red, but it might be an early indicator on election night [21:30] of just how much the Democrats are able to shift this map specifically into red Republican-leaning [21:37] states, because it closes pretty early in the night. At that same time, we're going to look if [21:42] they can hold on to Georgia. Democrats hope to flip North Carolina. And we will get some other [21:48] indications, too, out of the toss-up in Ohio, where, again, Democrats are looking to flip a state that's [21:55] gone Republican of late. Moving on in the night, we will start to look at New Hampshire. Then we will [22:01] get to Michigan. Maine closes then, too, but they will count a little bit more slowly. And, of course, [22:08] the big one in Texas, where Democrats are trying to flip a seat that has voted Republican for [22:15] generations. To the point about moving the map into red states, we're also going to look at places like [22:22] Iowa and even Kansas. In this one, which still leans red, but the Democrats may have a shot at it. [22:30] If I show you, just to give you context, this is a place that voted very easily for Donald Trump. [22:36] In fact, it has not voted for a Democratic senator since we can turn the clock all the way back to 1932. [22:45] Yeah, the board here, we set the time machine all the way back there. But that's the point, [22:51] is these are places that have historically voted Republican. The Democrats are trying to get [22:57] closer there. But I will note for everyone, one or two points in a pre-election poll, [23:02] that's translating into tens of thousands, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of votes. [23:07] So it's really going to be whether the Democrats have the turnout operation to get there, [23:13] that's going to be a key story on election night. [23:15] AMNA NAWAZEKER, The President of the United States, [23:16] Tell me about the House. How is that looking? [23:17] MARK SHIELDS, The President of the United States, So, Margaret, let me show you where our baseline House [23:21] estimate stands from our polling and our model. And that's been very stable at Democrats on pace [23:27] for 229 seats, a majority, maybe historically a narrow one. At the same time, with our friends [23:34] at YouGov and VoteHub, we reran these models for scenarios to say, what would happen if the things [23:43] that have to happen for the Republicans to have a chance to hold the House is, first of all, [23:48] they have got to get more turnout than they have been getting. They tell us in the polling that [23:53] they're not as likely to turn out as Democrats are. The early vote is indicating that Democrats [23:59] have strong turnout as well. That would have to shift to give the Republicans a chance to hold. [24:05] At the same time, if these trends continue and the Democrats get high turnout, [24:11] including from a lot of young people who say they're going to vote, and they don't always do, [24:16] their numbers could get as high as 237. That's our damn high scenario as well. [24:22] So you want to think about the range of possibilities in terms of those seats, Margaret. [24:28] So, Anthony, we'll be part of the broadcast coverage on Tuesday, but you [24:32] have a special project you're launching. Tell us about it. [24:36] I do. We call it the Nerd Show. And if you like all the data and watching folks break it down in [24:42] real time, we're going to deliver it. We're going to take you behind the scenes with the CBS News data [24:48] desk, and you'll watch us look at the data and make the projections in real time. And it's going to be [24:54] really high tech. We've got our friends and partners from Vote Hub tracking down to the local level. [25:00] We've got our friends in the MIT Election Lab tracking turnout. And we've got the folks from [25:05] CalSheet here. They are our prediction market data sponsor. We'll be looking at what the traders are [25:11] thinking and doing in real time. So if you want the results, you want the numbers, and you want to see [25:16] us go through it all, tune in. [25:19] All right. Anthony Salvante, you rest up, and we will see you all Tuesday. We want to note that CBS [25:24] News employees are not allowed to trade or participate in any way with prediction markets. [25:29] And a reminder to our viewers, you can watch the Nerd Show Tuesday starting on our CBS News 24-7 [25:34] streaming network at 5 p.m. Eastern. Then it'll stream on YouTube and on Next. We'll be right back. [25:41] Tune in to CBS News for complete coverage of the midterm elections on Tuesday. Our special [25:46] America Decides broadcast begins at 7 p.m. Eastern, and we will be streaming politics [25:50] all day long on CBS News 24-7. For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brannan.