Face the Nation: Means, Lacore

[0:00] In last week's midterms, nine out of 10 voters cited corruption as a crucial or major factor [0:05] in their vote for Congress. Late last week, a former Trump White House official named Callie [0:11] Means made allegations of corporate influence against a handful of top Trump officials, [0:16] including now former Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. His remarks were made in a podcast that dropped [0:22] Friday and set off a firestorm in Washington. Means is one of the leaders of the Make America [0:28] Healthy Again or Maha movement and helped form the alliance between RFK Jr. and Donald Trump in 2024. [0:35] We spoke to him Saturday. President Trump has announced that Chief of Staff Susie Wiles [0:41] has left the White House. The departure coincides with this resounding Republican loss in the [0:47] midterms. But also, you went public with some very specific allegations of corruption [0:53] and a call to clean house. Was it your intention to get her removed? [0:57] Yes. I think President Trump has been subverted by people that are beholden to special interests [1:04] and not what President Trump ran on and what voters voted for. I led the Maha initiative at the White [1:10] House. And Stephen Miller said it recently in a speech. The heart of Maha is that we are the only [1:15] primate humans that deal with pediatric cancer and rampant cancer rates. And it's obviously because of [1:21] our environment. It's because of pesticides. It's because of that 70 percent of a child's diet is [1:25] ultra processed food. It's because we're not out in the sun. It's basic, basic stuff. And that, [1:29] I think, was really the heart of the Maha movement. I think a heart of what President Trump ran on. [1:34] And there's very simple things. And Americans voted to change those things. [1:39] And I think underneath Trump's nose, in many cases, you had a group of former lobbyists [1:47] catering to the vaping industry, catering to the ultra processed food industry, catering to the [1:51] pharmaceutical industry, catering to the pesticide industry, and doing their bidding with an excuse [1:57] that we need their money for the midterms and really need to actually go against what voters said, [2:01] but need their money. Explicitly, that's what they said. And I think that Susie and her cohort. [2:09] Susie and Richard Walters, who is actually not someone most people know, but was one of the most [2:15] powerful people in the country, was the de facto chief of staff when Susie was getting cancer treatment. [2:20] Walker Barrett and James Blair, a very close-knit crew who explicitly catered to special interests [2:28] against the will of the voters. I think a lot of this happened without Trump's full knowledge. [2:33] I don't think President Trump fully knew that some of these advisors were taking money from [2:36] the industries we ran on fighting against at the time they're giving explicit policy advice. [2:41] Directly taking money? [2:42] Directly, of course, yes. Tony Fabrizio is one of the most powerful people in the country. [2:47] And every single cabinet secretary was conniving on how to convince Tony Fabrizio of their policy [2:53] positions because any policy went through Tony Fabrizio for a political check. [2:58] You know, he was in the White House all the time, every single week. [3:01] He runs an outside polling firm that the White House relies on. [3:03] But that's a name. I mean, he was one of the most impactful players in White House policymaking, [3:10] one of the most powerful people in the country. He had a huge say in any policy that got done. [3:15] And as he is opining on the political relevance of doing healthy food and healthy school lunches, [3:21] or taking on the pesticide industry, or taking on big pharma, which President Trump ran on, [3:26] he was getting paid by Pfizer, by Pepsi to this day. It's on his website right now. You can see it on [3:30] the Joe Rogan podcast I just did. We pulled up his website. It's advertised right now. He solicits [3:34] clients right now and lists those people as his clients. [3:37] So you think all of his polling is compromised? [3:41] I'm just stating facts. [3:42] That's your theory that you're pointing forward? [3:44] Yeah, I'm just stating a fact that we were trying to get a 90 percent support policy done of defining [3:48] ultra-processed food. And he said the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this, [3:52] and advised against it while being paid by Pepsi. [3:55] We have reached out to Tony Fabrizio for comment and not heard back. [3:59] Richard Walters told CBS News he submitted his resignation Friday. [4:04] Susie Wiles told us that, quote, the president did more for Maha than any president before or [4:10] likely any president in the future. We'll be right back. More of our interview in the next half hour. [4:20] Welcome back to Face the Nation. Reaction to the announcement to Stephen Miller's promotion [4:25] has been mixed, even among a handful of Republicans. [4:28] We continue our interview with former White House adviser Callie Means. [4:32] So, RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, who you're very, very close to, said, [4:38] Stephen Miller is the strongest Maha supporter in the administration. It's time to unleash the [4:43] kraken. What do you take that to mean? [4:45] What I take it to mean is actually an opening for Republicans and Democrats. Unleash the [4:50] cracking means doing things that matter to the American people. And when it comes to health care, [4:54] these are completely nonpartisan things. I mean, I spent every single day with Bobby Kennedy, [4:58] as you said, probably more time with him than almost anyone. And what he says, [5:01] what he pushes his team on is the exact same things that Democrats are running on. [5:05] It is taking on corporate capture. It's taking on corruption. [5:08] It's taking on big pharma incentives. It's making our food healthier. [5:11] That is what he is pushing his team to do. [5:13] So, on that point, I hear that you believe Stephen Miller is an ally to the cause. [5:17] But in terms of being an operator in Washington, I mean, he's radioactive to Democrats. [5:22] They're already calling for him to be fired. He was the architect of the mass deportation policy [5:29] that proved very unpopular in these midterms. Why do you think he can actually help you get [5:34] things done on this cause? [5:35] Immigration, which is not my issue. I will say that a lot of polls said that that was one of, [5:39] like, actually solving the border crisis. Stephen Miller did do that. That was a core campaign [5:46] promise. That was an existential issue. He is very competent. And he has dramatically reduced those [5:52] numbers. So I can speak with most authority from the mob perspective. [5:57] Let's talk about health care. Stephen Miller wants to get transformative things done with [6:02] Bobby Kennedy and President Trump that are not partisan but structural. He wants to get the same [6:07] things done that Elizabeth Warren and El Syed and other people are running on. And I think there is a [6:13] major opportunity to come together and get some big things done, which, quite frankly, we have to do. [6:17] You told Joe Rogan that if you're a special interest group, you pay Susie Wiles' daughter to get [6:23] something done. What specific policy are you talking about here? What do you mean by that? [6:28] Margaret, everyone knows, including you, that this is how it works. They know that Continental [6:33] Strategies, their revenue didn't go from $0 to $30 million a year by accident. [6:43] Ballard Partners, where Susie worked, became the highest revenue-generating lobbying firm in the [6:47] history of human civilization. That did not happen by accident. These companies that give those [6:52] firms money are not acting irrationally. More people, and I encourage more people to just say [6:58] the truth. President Trump said the truth during the campaign. And this culture that Susie engendered was [7:04] treating the American people like they're stupid. And often, frankly, I think treating President Trump like [7:08] it's stupid. Obviously, Continental Strategies revenue exploding was tied to Katie Wiles working [7:16] there. And what's an example? The fact that Katie was seen in an anti-American, pro-Russian government, [7:22] Republika Sporuska, recently. And then, magically, leaders from that country have a meeting with Susie. [7:28] You do know, though, that there's been reporting that some of the president's own family members [7:33] have their own financial interests and businesses here. You don't think that is compromising as well? [7:39] I think every question should be asked. Sure. I can't speak to that. What I can speak to [7:44] is that I have never seen President Trump have a policy inclination against going aggressive on Maha [7:50] policies. And I can also substantiate that a lot of the things that have been slowed down were done [7:56] under his nose. So after Susie Wiles left, Secretary Kennedy publicly said she brokered his partnership [8:04] with Trump and then thanked her for helping to bring in disruptive leaders into HHS. He didn't [8:10] say any of the things that you are saying here right now. I feel very comfortable with what I said. [8:16] I feel very comfortable with the hundreds of calls I've gotten from lawmakers and senior [8:23] administration officials thanking me for what I'd done. Did Secretary Kennedy know you were going [8:27] to go public with these allegations? No. If you look at the recent Maha conference [8:31] that was just held here in Washington, there were major corporations associated with it. [8:36] Right. Walmart, United Healthcare. And then there were also companies aligned with Maha who have [8:43] money to potentially make in peptide policy changes that Secretary Kennedy has, you know, championed. [8:50] There are other wellness initiatives and people who financially could benefit from some of these [8:54] policies. Doesn't that also risk compromising integrity? Those are also companies who set [9:00] to make money. Yeah. I can't speak for what an outside group does. I don't think any American [9:04] thinks that Bobby Kennedy is compromised by special interests. Were you comfortable with that? [9:07] No, no, I didn't love it. All those corporations being aligned? [9:09] I didn't love the framing of it. No, it's not my event. I didn't love that. You're talking about one [9:14] small conference in one small group. It was pretty big. I mean, the secretary spoke at it. [9:18] I don't like the optics. Dr. Oz spoke at it. Russell Brand, the actor, who's... [9:22] I don't think any American thinks Bobby Kennedy is compromised. And I think every single corporate [9:27] interest should be scrutinized. But let's be honest, right? Supplement companies aren't making [9:34] Ballard Partners the highest revenue generating firm in the world, right? Peptide companies and [9:39] compounders are not getting meetings with Ballard. You have been in the crosshairs of some Congressional [9:45] Democrats who are now going to be empowered in this new Congress. They have alleged you have your [9:51] own conflicts of interest because you've owned between 25 to 50 million in stock in a company [9:55] called TruMed through November 2025. At that time, I understand you had a different status. You're a [10:00] special government employee. Then you became an employee, a permanent one at the White House. And [10:06] some of the arrangements changed. But for those who look at that period of time, how can you address [10:14] what they say are ethical issues that you had? Everybody's conflict should be highly scrutinized. I [10:20] started a company to drive medical spending to exercise and healthy food after writing a book about [10:25] exercise and healthy food. Through that advocacy, I met Bobby Kennedy, met the Trump administration, [10:32] and was put into government. I became an SGE and, as you said, fully divested that company when I [10:39] decided to go in full-time. We raised around before the Trump administration started. So I started a [10:45] company to promote healthy food and exercise and fully divested that company against my economic [10:51] interests to come into government. A spokesperson for Continental Strategy speaking for Katie Wiles [10:57] told us that, quote, Mr. Means' claims regarding Continental Strategy are inaccurate and baseless, [11:02] and said the firm has, quote, never met with Mr. Means, lobbied for glyphosate, Monsanto, [11:07] Bayer, vapes, kratom, or similar policies. Also that his allegations regarding Katie Wiles' participation [11:14] in the Srpska elections are false, as has been previously reported, they say, by other media outlets. [11:22] We've also reached out to Ballard Partners plus HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy and his aides for [11:30] comment, but we have not heard back. We'll be right back with the final part of our interview. [11:37] And we're back with the last part of our interview with Callie Means, which was taped Saturday morning. [11:43] In a recent interview, you said the administration was blocking health policies that you were trying [11:47] to get past. And you said specifically they were doing it to take money from the sugar industry. [11:54] You also talked about big tobacco. Explain that. What did you see? [11:59] So as last night, like yesterday, as Susie Wiles left, her deputies were still relentlessly pushing [12:09] HHS to find a pathway for fruit-flavored vapes. The issues that came from Susie's world [12:18] were not healthy food, were not cleaning up pesticides, were not these core issues that Bobby Kennedy ran on. [12:29] I had to steamroll any of those policies through them with President Trump's support [12:36] and using outside advocates like Joe Rogan. The issues that were being pushed hard in the previous regime [12:46] were things like vapes, which are a huge donor to Ballard Partners, are things like gas station heroin. [12:55] Marty McCary bravely put a high tolerance, you know, a low tolerance limit on the products, [13:03] which are causing devastation. You basically have opioids being sold at gas stations. He was pushed out, [13:09] and that tolerance limit was increased 20x so that there's still an ability for people to, you know, [13:15] buy multiple products and get high, which was the direct intention of that policy. These are the types [13:21] of policies that are being pushed, were being pushed. And again, we should be looking forward. It's a new day, [13:28] but that's just demonstrably true. [13:30] The former FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty McCary, resigned in May, and sources close to him said it [13:36] was due to pressure from tobacco companies to make more available what you just said, fruit-flavored [13:41] vapes, these e-cigarettes. But there have been allegations that the president himself, [13:47] Donald Trump, pressed for the FDA to allow more favorable policies for big tobacco because of [13:52] donations to the political action committees for the midterms, that he himself knew. [13:59] I, I, I, maybe that's leaked by Susie. I don't know. I, what I saw a lot is that they would set [14:05] up a quick meeting with President Trump. They would flag something for him. Oh, this is an important [14:08] issue. He'd say something, and then they would jam it down, jam it down, saying it's a presidential [14:14] priority for their priorities. I don't think President Trump ran, uh, you know, as a primary [14:19] purpose to help, uh, these industries. No, he didn't run on it. And I don't think that's what he wants. [14:24] You don't think? No, I don't. From, I, I, I don't think that's why he is serving as president. [14:29] I think he talks to Bobby Kennedy about the doing big transformational things. [14:33] And what I know and what I saw is that there's systematic efforts working with Ballard, [14:38] working with these other people to help these industries. This was the single, [14:42] this was the single most emphasized area for James Blair who really led policy. Uh, [14:49] you know, James Blair wasn't, James Blair wasn't pushing, you know, calling me in and saying, [14:54] how can we, you know, promote more healthy food? How can we get more healthy food to kids? How can we, [14:58] you know, talk about these Maha principles? That never happened. I had to, I had to bulldoze to him. [15:02] Uh, he was relentless on helping the fruit flavored vape, uh, industry. So, um, that's what I saw. [15:08] So to that point, so the tobacco company Reynolds American donated $5 million to a political action [15:14] committee backed by Trump a week before the administration rolled out a new tobacco policy. [15:18] Yeah. And that was a big reason why, uh, there was art, that was a big argument from Susie's team [15:23] on why we need to do this, that, you know, I, I didn't hear this specifically with vapes, but with [15:27] the sugar industry, I, you know, it was direct conversations about how we need the sugar industry's [15:31] money for the midterm. So, you know, when you have the midterm strategy and, and, and a belief that money, [15:37] uh, for the midterms is more important than voter promises, you're basically able to excuse everything. [15:41] So the New York Times reported that tobacco lobbyists had actually been at the president's [15:46] Florida golf course with him at lunch, advocating to the president. He picked up the phone and he [15:53] called RFK Jr. Did that happen? I don't know. Uh, Brian Ballard was at that meeting. And I know that [15:59] Susie set up a lot of meetings with Brian Ballard, uh, to, uh, get a talking point that the president [16:04] supports something. Again, I do not think fruit flavored vapes, uh, or gas station heroin is, uh, [16:12] any percentage of what president Trump is thinking about or wants to do. [16:15] Because there is a pattern here. It was in the first Trump administration [16:19] that the FDA tried to crack down on Kratom, what you're calling gas station heroin. [16:23] They also tried to crack down on fruit flavored vapes. The FDA commissioner at that time, Dr. [16:28] Scott Gottlieb, left. And yet in the second Trump administration, these very same issues [16:34] are surfacing again. Are you sure the president isn't okay with that? I am sure that the president [16:41] is realizes that he has a generational coalition with secretary Kennedy. He respects secretary [16:47] Kennedy. He wants to go hard on the issue of improving health for children. I think he had [16:53] severe, uh, uh, poor advice, uh, from people, uh, I think who, uh, treated him like a baby in many [17:01] respects and used him. Um, [17:04] The president's staff treat him like a baby. Of course they, they would, they, they would block [17:08] access to an information to him all the time. I, I would be not surprised at all. You know, [17:14] if they had very short conversations on these issues, you know, where the president's extremely [17:18] busy and the president said, okay, whatever. And then they use, yeah, then they use that. [17:23] Like, like it's all, it was all like the president wants this. [17:27] Well, secretary Kennedy has endorsed Dr. Heidi Overton to be the next FDA commissioner. He said [17:33] she's exceptionally dedicated, meticulous attention to detail, strategic leadership to every policy [17:38] she touches. You accused her of writing a policy to relax standards on fruit flavored vapes. [17:45] I'm not going to speak for secretary Kennedy. Heidi Overton, uh, was the biggest block, [17:51] uh, two Maha policies I encountered in the government, uh, on healthy food on mental health [17:56] treatments like psychedelics. Uh, she was a stone wall and she, uh, really mindlessly, [18:05] in my opinion, did whatever Susie told her to do. Um, Marty McCary was her mentor. Um, and she, [18:13] in a meeting told Marty and I that, uh, she couldn't help Marty if he didn't approve a drug that he [18:18] sought scientifically should not be approved, an mRNA flu vaccine. Um, and, uh, it's just a factual [18:26] statement that after Marty left, uh, partly due to the vaping issue, she drove the creation of the [18:33] relaxed vaping strategy. So in this new regime with the new chief of staff, do you think her [18:39] nomination is going to be pulled? I mean, she's already testified to Congress. She's still got to [18:44] face the vote. My opinion is Heidi Overton should not be, she does not have the character or integrity to be [18:48] FDA secretary or FDA commissioner. A spokesman for Dr. Heidi Overton responded to Means's criticism [18:55] of her qualifications and told CBS News that two former FDA commissioners think otherwise. [19:02] Dr. Marty McCary provided us the following statement, quote, [19:05] Big Tobacco exploited their connections to administration and HHS officials to put [19:10] repeated pressure on me to approve fruit flavored vapes that appealed to children. [19:15] I wouldn't do it. The Kratom 70H lobby ran the same playbook to undermine my efforts to make this new [19:22] gas station heroin illegal. As FDA commissioner, I always rejected political corruption just as voters [19:29] across the political spectrum did last week. Now, we did also contact Susie Wiles who told CBS that [19:37] she had nothing to do with the tobacco industry meeting with the president at his golf club. [19:42] In response to Means's allegation, James Blair told CBS, quote, [19:47] I didn't promote flavored vaping specifically at all. I was tasked with driving FDA to make its process [19:54] for approving or denying nicotine delivery device applications work the way current federal law [20:00] dictates it works, which is that applicants get a yes or no approval in six months. [20:06] Callie is intentionally misrepresenting my role and my responsibility because he opposes the issue [20:12] entirely, even though the president himself has made his position on smoking and smoking alternatives [20:18] very known publicly and has provided clear direction. Callie just doesn't like it. [20:26] Now, President Trump has publicly stated that he saved flavored vaping during his first term to get [20:31] people off smoking and he vowed in his second term to save vaping again, as you can see there. [20:39] More context and a full transcript will be available on our website. CBS News will continue [20:44] to report on this evolving story. We spoke Friday with Democratic Congresswoman-elect Nancy LaCour, [20:52] a former Navy Vice Admiral and a mom of six who flipped a seat in South Carolina as part of last week's [20:59] blue wave. She's a former registered Republican who says she left the party in 2016 because of President [21:06] Trump. We began by asking her what areas she thinks she could work on with the president. [21:12] I see a lot of opportunities because of what the new Congress is going to look like. [21:19] You know, there's a significant majority this time. There are a lot of veterans who are now, [21:24] you know, elected, you know, soon to be official congressmen and women. And as veterans, we don't [21:32] really care what your political affiliation is. We just focus on achieving the mission. And I think [21:38] that's what you're going to see out of this new Congress. [21:41] Well, you said on the campaign trail that your mission would be bringing down the cost of housing, [21:45] medical care, health care, getting rid of tax breaks for data centers. That's a long to-do list. [21:51] Do you have a sense from Democratic leaders what the first initiative will be in the new Congress? [21:57] The things that I'm going to focus on on day one, first of all, will be to end this war, [22:02] because that has driven up costs extraordinarily high across the district and the country. [22:07] We also need to look at repealing some of these tariffs that have driven up a variety of other [22:13] costs, including those of building new homes. And one big, beautiful bill. There's some great pieces [22:18] to the one big, beautiful bill. But there are some very pieces that have done a lot of damage [22:23] and made things a lot more unaffordable. I love to talk about the fact that we're not paying taxes [22:29] on tips or Social Security. And I think that's great. But we need to make that permanent, because [22:33] right now, those are going to expire with the end of this administration. [22:35] JUDY WOODRUFF, 9 out of 10 voters said government corruption was a crucial or major factor in their [22:42] vote. They put it right up there with the cost of living. Leader Jeffries, likely to be Speaker [22:48] Jeffries, has said there should be accountability, but the American people don't want us to get even. [22:54] They want us to get things done because life is too expensive. So, what does accountability look like? [23:00] Do you need investigations or do you need legislation? [23:03] JUDY WOODRUFF, 9 out of 10 voters, 9 out of 10 voters, 9 out of 10 voters? [23:04] It probably depends, I think, on what specifically we're talking about. [23:08] We need to put some rules in place to make sure that our elected officials are not trading stocks. [23:14] That is one area that we've seen, I think, extensive corruption there with insider information. [23:19] But we also need to overturn and Citizens United and make sure that we are getting that dark money [23:24] out of politics so representatives can answer to their constituents and not insider interests. [23:31] So, when we look at your bio, you will be the highest-ranking female military officer [23:38] ever to be elected to Congress. No female admiral or general has ever served before. [23:44] You were chief of the Navy Reserve until you were relieved from your position by Secretary [23:48] Hegseth in August of 2025. He has said he's cutting the number of high-ranking officers by 20%, [23:57] but he's also said he's ending diversity initiatives, or DEI. Do you have any idea why he targeted you? [24:03] I don't. I was never given a reason when I was removed from my position in August of 2025. I don't [24:09] think any of the other generals and admirals were ever given reasons either. And, frankly, [24:16] at this point, it doesn't really matter. It opened a door for me to do what I'm doing now and [24:21] continuing my service in Congress. [24:22] Secretary Hegseth released a video Thursday arguing that attempts to oust him from office [24:28] are about his rebuilding of the force. Here's a clip. [24:33] Diversity is not our strength. Our unity is. Men and women, they're not the same thing, [24:39] but in the military, they must be held to the same standard. Strong young men who believe in [24:45] something greater than themselves are admirable. [24:47] He went on to call being transgender a mental illness. He dismissed a reference to white rage. [24:55] He said that seemed to be maybe about renaming military bases and taking Confederate general [25:02] names off of them. Of all of these initiatives, what do you think the impact has been on the U.S. [25:08] military? [25:08] You know, I have said since I launched this campaign, Pete Hegseth is the most unqualified [25:15] secretary that this nation has seen. He has caused significant damage to us as a country and put us at risk [25:21] and really damage the readiness of our entire military force. He is focused on the wrong things. [25:27] He should be focused on strategy and readiness instead of these things that are down in the trenches. [25:31] JUDY WOODRUFF, what do you think would be an impeachable offense? Because I know there is an effort [25:37] underway in this Congress to do so. You have said you hope that gets taken care of before you come to Washington. [25:42] BENJAMIN DELK- Yeah, I mean, I think there's probably plenty. And I do believe that this [25:47] will be handled before I get there. You know, we can talk we can tie this war as one thing that [25:53] is extremely damaging to our country, some of the things that we saw going on down off Venezuela as well. [26:00] But really, it comes back to, you know, it's all part of the problem with the corruption [26:05] and the lack of strategy, which is doing nothing but really driving up costs for people. And that's [26:10] that's what people really care about. [26:11] And so that's what I wanna focus on when I get to Congress. [26:16] We'll be right back. [26:19] That's it for us today. [26:20] Thank you all for watching. [26:22] Until next week. [26:23] For Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.