Face the Nation: Gottlieb, Lieu, Soeripto

[0:05] Welcome back to Face the Nation. Passengers from the Hantavirus-stricken cruise ship arrived [0:10] this morning in Spain's Canary Islands, where they were ferried onto land by small launch boats, [0:16] then checked for symptoms before being flown on evacuation flights. [0:21] Close to 150 people on board the ship, and among them 17 of them Americans, [0:28] they're going to be flown to a quarantine unit in Nebraska. No one so far is showing symptoms. [0:34] For more now, we turn to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He also serves on the boards [0:39] of Pfizer and UnitedHealthcare. Welcome back, doctor. Thank you. [0:44] So there have been three deaths linked to the outbreak. Here in the U.S., there are six states [0:50] monitoring potential exposure, all either linked to the ship itself or flights of people who have been [0:56] on the ship, and then those 17 Americans. Do you agree with the CDC and the World Health Organization [1:03] that the risk to public health is low? [1:05] DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB- Yeah, I do agree with that. We have to concede that there's still things we don't [1:11] know about this virus. We haven't had to grapple with many outbreaks in the past. There's been two [1:15] large outbreaks in Argentina. But based on that experience, what we know is that, typically, [1:19] for transmission, you have to have close contact. We also know that people typically aren't contagious [1:24] unless they're showing signs of the infection itself, in what we call the prodromal phase, [1:29] where they start to have an onset of symptoms. And the progression from that onset of symptoms to [1:34] severe disease, and in these cases, death, is typically just days. This is a very aggressive [1:40] virus. And so, based on what we know, the transmission risk is low. Now, that said, [1:44] when you look back at the past experience, there are these outlier cases where there appears to have [1:48] been transmission among people who weren't perceived to be in close contact. And so there are these [1:54] cases that we need to look at closely from the past experience. And just be wary that perhaps there's [1:59] things we don't know fully about this virus. [2:01] I will say that we are nearing the end of the transmission window for the people who are [2:05] being repatriated here in the U.S. And so it looks to me like the last death on that cruise ship was [2:10] May 2. That patient had an onset of symptoms on April 28. If you believe that the incubation period is [2:18] about two to six weeks, they will be at the peak of that incubation cycle some point this week. [2:23] So I think we're about two weeks away from knowing whether or not there will be additional cases that [2:27] come from that initial outbreak on the cruise ship. [2:29] So a key moment here. I mean, the WHO said it's very clear this is not COVID all over again. [2:37] But as you know, it has ignited some of the very same skeptics who during the pandemic really [2:43] questioned our government institutions and the response. The WHO has said there is no research that [2:50] ivermectin is an effective treatment for the virus. But I'm wondering what you make of [2:56] these calls for alternative treatments and resistance of government health advice. [3:03] Look, I think we're going to be relitigating the consequences of COVID for a long time. [3:09] And I think a lot of people who are in public health positions right now believe that their tenure [3:14] and their appointment to these positions is a referendum on COVID in some respects. [3:18] And so that echoes through their public comments. This is not COVID. It's not going to spread like [3:21] a pandemic virus like COVID did, like a coronavirus did. It spreads far less efficiently. There aren't [3:27] any treatments, successful treatments for this virus. Ivermectin certainly isn't an effective treatment. [3:32] Just by virtue of its mechanism, it doesn't work against this virus. It prevents viral replication [3:38] in the nucleus, not the cytoplasm where this virus replicates. It's just not going to work. [3:42] So I would encourage people not to use that. I know that there's been some things on social media [3:46] suggesting that people should stockpile ivermectin. We don't have an effective [3:49] treatment for hantavirus. And that's what makes this very menacing. [3:53] Well, indeed. And we're going to continue to track that. You served in the first Trump administration [3:59] as his FDA commissioner in the first term. The person in that job now has been a guest on this [4:05] program, Dr. Marty McCary. He was a vocal critic of COVID response during Trump and Biden. [4:13] There's a lot of reporting right now that his current position, that he's at risk of losing his job. [4:20] Given how important the FDA is, they regulate, I saw, one-fifth of consumer spending in this country. [4:27] How damaging would it be to lose its leader? And is there someone who could step in quickly? [4:35] No one obvious to me. And there's been some reporting about different candidates that could [4:39] work on an interim basis there. Marty's a friend. You know, I think that that's a very difficult job. [4:44] It, as you said, regulates about 20 percent of the U.S. economy, products that are very important [4:48] to people's lives, medical products, food, food safety. And so there's a lot of debate and [4:54] consternation about decisions that get made at FDA. And so it's been a controversial position for [4:58] whoever's held that job, including me. You know, I got criticized for decisions that I made [5:02] in that position as well. I think the continued upheaval at FDA has been detrimental to the agency, [5:08] not just the speculation about Marty's fate, but also the departures that we have seen from the agency. [5:13] The agency has lost thousands of medical reviewers, some voluntary through the [5:18] through the doge cuts or some forced through the doge cuts. Involuntary means some voluntary. [5:23] There's been a lot of voluntary departures from the agency. If you look at the oncology division, [5:27] they had a starting strength of about 100 medical reviewers at the beginning of this administration. [5:31] They're down to about 50. The hematological group that reviews drugs for leukemia and lymphoma [5:37] had 21 medical reviewers, and it's down to six. They lost an entire breast cancer review team. [5:42] So there's been a lot of departures from the agency. You've seen political appointees take over [5:46] what are typically career leadership positions, running the medical product centers, the drug [5:50] center and the biologic center. So I think, cumulatively, that's taking a toll on the agency. [5:55] And this continued speculation that we saw on Friday, I think, is just going to be another step downward. [5:59] AMNA NAWAZ, Those are stunning numbers to hear you rattle off there. [6:03] I want to ask you about some of current leadership there. Secretary Kennedy was speaking about the use [6:12] of antidepressants in this country. Almost 17% of Americans use them. He says they're overprescribed, [6:18] and he compared his experience of heroin withdrawal to a family member's experience getting off [6:24] antidepressants known as SSRIs. Take a listen. [6:27] I watched a family member get off of them after a couple of years on them. And she was suicidal [6:37] literally every day. She woke up every morning and said, I don't want to live. And she said, [6:44] the only reason I'm staying alive is for you guys, for the family. [6:47] AMNA NAWAZ, He later said that he was not telling people to stop if they're taking [6:54] that medication. But what do you make of his description of antidepressants as risky? [6:59] DAVID BROOKS, Look, these are prescribed in a primary care setting. [7:03] And like any drug that's prescribed in that setting, I'm sure there's some marginal prescribing, [7:07] you know, isolated marginal prescribing. But for most Americans to take these drugs, [7:11] they're very important and, in some cases, lifesaving. And I would encourage everyone [7:15] who is thinking about potentially stopping these medications, based on the secretary's comments, [7:20] to consult their doctor. There is a period of time that patients need to be weaned off these drugs. [7:24] They can be successfully weaned off these drugs if they want to be. And there's alternatives that could be [7:28] effective for their mental health. But nobody should just stop these drugs [7:32] outright without being under the consultation of a medical provider. [7:35] I worry that the secretary's comments is going to discourage legitimate use of these drugs in [7:40] the same way that his comments around Tylenol discourage use of Tylenol in the setting of [7:43] pregnancy, where it could be very important for certain pregnant women who need pain relief [7:47] and fever relief in that setting. And we saw a lot of women move away from those drugs, [7:52] use of those drugs, even appropriate use of those drugs. [7:55] Based on the secretary's comments about that, I worry about the same thing here. [7:58] It's clear that the secretary wants to put downward pressure on the prescribing. [8:02] He tried to implement regulatory steps to do that as well. And so it is concerning. [8:06] Okay. Dr. Gottlieb, we're going to have to leave it there. I want to have you back to talk about [8:12] vaping one of these days, but I'm going to have to leave it there due to time constraints. [8:17] Thank you so much for your analysis. We'll be back in a moment. [8:20] Virginia Democrats suffered a major setback on Friday when the state Supreme Court struck down [8:29] a congressional map recently approved by voters that could have created four Democratic House [8:34] districts. The court's majority found that the timing of the referendum process had violated the [8:39] state's constitution. Virginia Democrats say they plan to challenge that decision. [8:45] Meanwhile, furious Democratic protesters charged state capitals in Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee, [8:58] when legislators there took steps to redraw current district maps that would be [9:03] favorable to Republicans. Congressional maps in at least five other states have also been changed [9:08] for partisan reasons ahead of the midterm elections. CBS estimates that Republicans are now approximately [9:14] nine seats closer to keeping control of the House. We go now to California Congressman Ted Lieu. He is [9:21] the vice chair of the Democratic Caucus and a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. He joins us this [9:26] morning from Los Angeles. Good morning to you. Good morning, Margaret. So you are in Democratic [9:33] leadership. You just heard us lay out what's going on with redistricting. How concerned are you [9:38] that Republicans now hold the advantage given the recent court decisions? Thank you, Margaret, [9:46] for that question. Let me just first say Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers across America. [9:52] Regarding your question, I would disagree that Republicans may have a nice nine-seat advantage [9:59] because that's based on data from last term. And the Trump coalition has completely collapsed because [10:06] of skyrocketing gas prices, surging inflation. And if you look at the polling data and the results we've [10:13] had in special elections this year as well as last year, we think the Republicans may have an advantage [10:18] of anywhere between three to five additional seats. That is not enough for them to stop a Democratic [10:25] blue wave coming this November. And the best thing to do when a court does something outlandish, [10:31] like the Virginia Supreme Court, is to get back up and fight and make sure we win in the midterms. [10:37] But that Virginia push by Democrats, you spent more than $60 million on that redistricting effort. [10:46] Wouldn't those funds have been better spent on those frontline candidates and arguing on the issues? [10:52] Yeah. So what the Virginia Supreme Court did was not only wrong, it was disgraceful. They basically said, [11:02] hey, Virginia, spend all this taxpayers' money holding an election, do all this stuff. And, [11:07] oh, by the way, just kidding, that election didn't count. The court could have stopped this [11:12] by not having an election in the first place. They suckered the people of Virginia. It was a complete [11:17] disgrace. Now, most of the money that Democrats spend in the race is called C4 money. So that's [11:23] not direct hard money that we're going to need for races in the midterms. But it was taxpayers' money [11:28] that was wasted because of the disgraceful opinion by the Supreme Court. [11:30] You think it was worth the financial cost? Are Democrats going to somehow continue to fight this in court? [11:38] We're going to look at all available options. We're definitely going to try to keep fighting this [11:45] battle. And I just want to note, the best way, again, if someone shoves you down, is to get right [11:51] back up and fight back. And that's what we're going to do. And of these four seats in Virginia, [11:55] we believe we're going to win two of them in the midterms. And that's what we're doing. We're fighting back. [12:00] Okay. So you still believe that Democrats can retake the House. What is your main message? [12:07] We will take the House. On what message? [12:10] The American people voted on Donald Trump because they wanted lower costs. And he lied to them. [12:20] We have surging inflation, skyrocketing gas prices. The Trump tariffs have raised costs across many [12:28] products across America. People are drowning in debt and in bills. And Democrats are going to reduce [12:34] health care costs, lower costs across the board, reduce your energy costs. That's the message we're [12:39] running out. How are you going to do that? Democrats shut down the government to [12:42] have an argument over health care, and they didn't get any policy concessions, [12:45] and premiums went up. You lost that fight. Well, actually, we passed through the House [12:52] and extension of ACA tax credits for three years. We urge the Senate to pass that legislation as well. [12:59] Democrats, when we get control, we're going to reverse the massive Medicaid cuts, the Medicare cuts, [13:04] and the cuts of ACA that Trump and Republicans put in last year. [13:08] Let me ask you about your position on the Foreign Affairs Committee. [13:12] Secretary Rubio said Taiwan will likely be discussed during President Trump's visit to [13:17] China this week to meet with Xi Jinping. This is a hugely consequential summit. [13:23] On Friday, Taiwan's parliament approved $25 billion in funds to buy more American weapons. [13:29] Are you largely supportive at this point of the Trump administration's willingness to [13:34] strengthen Taiwan's defense? [13:35] Both Democratic and Republican administrations have had the exact same policy, which is to [13:43] preserve the current status quo, and we're trying to keep China from doing anything stupid in the [13:49] Indo-Pacific, including a military conflict. And I just want to emphasize that the Iran war [13:56] has shown that we need a brand new strategy in the Indo-Pacific, because in any prolonged conflict [14:02] with China or Russia, the U.S. will run out of defensive munitions. We already started running [14:07] out of defensive munitions in a war that lasted less than 60 days. And even against a second-rate [14:13] military like Iran, they struck multiple U.S. bases. So in any overseas conflict, our overseas bases [14:21] will be obliterated by Russia and China. We need a new defense strategy, and I call on the Pentagon [14:26] to deliver that to Congress. [14:28] LISA DESJARDINS- Well, President Trump has made these record-large promises of arms [14:33] sales to Taiwan. Are you saying that America actually can't deliver on them because the stockpiles [14:39] are so depleted and the industrial base can't deliver? [14:41] DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States, that's absolutely correct. We don't have enough [14:47] defensive munitions in any prolonged conflict with Russia and China that will sustain what we need [14:53] to do. We could even do this in Iran of a war of less than 60 days. We started to run low on [14:59] defensive munitions. And part of the problem is some of these missiles, for example, take a long time [15:05] to make. We basically make 96 of some of these defensive missiles a year. That's just not enough. [15:12] LISA DESJARDINS- I want to ask you about AI. The Times report, New York Times reported that [15:16] President Trump is considering an executive order that would implement some government [15:20] oversight over new AI models. I know you have legislation on AI. [15:24] DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States, I just want to first say, as a recovering computer [15:35] science major, I think it is horrible for their AI industry to run wild. We need to have reasonable [15:42] guardrails. [15:43] LISA DESJARDINS- Yep. Okay. Sorry. I think we're having... [15:47] DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States, I think we're having audio issues there, [15:50] Congressman, but I'm going to go to commercial break here. Thank you. [15:54] We turn now to Yanti Saripto. She is the president and CEO of Save the Children U.S., [16:03] which works to provide humanitarian aid and health resources to children worldwide. [16:09] Good to have you here on this Mother's Day. [16:11] YANTI SARIPTO, President of the United States, Thank you, Margaret, and a happy Mother's Day. [16:13] You're just back from Sudan, which is one of the hardest places in the world to be a parent, [16:19] certainly to be a mother. Pope Leo called it an inhumane tragedy. [16:24] The U.S. says 34 million people need urgent assistance. I know the U.S. is trying to work [16:29] on humanitarian ceasefire, but tell me what you saw there on the ground. [16:34] Well, Margaret, it is truly the world's worst humanitarian crisis, with millions of people in [16:39] need, and probably also the one that gets the least attention relative to the need. [16:45] It literally took me four days to actually get from here to see the first school that we are supporting [16:53] there. So the level of logistical and operational impediments to actually get support to children [17:00] and mothers where they are is unbelievably difficult. You have to cross multiple lines of [17:06] various militant groups. It is truly, truly the last mile. And the scale of the need is really astonishing. [17:17] I see a lot of emergency situations across the world. I see a lot of fragile states. But this was [17:22] really right up there. I know the U.S. has said this is essentially a proxy fight now. But when you look [17:30] at the humanitarian need, some of the statistics that were flooring to me here was the degree of sexual [17:37] violence. It is systematically used as a tactic of war, according to the U.N. 13 million people, [17:45] mostly women and girls, require support, according to the U.N., related to that kind of violence. [17:50] That's four times higher than before the conflict. Doctors Without Borders said the war is being fought [17:55] on the backs and bodies of women and girls. But they fault aid groups for not doing enough. Do you [18:03] think aid groups are? We're doing what we can, but I would certainly agree that it is not enough. We [18:09] simply do not have the resources. And I would agree. What I heard there, and that is just a tiny tip of [18:15] the iceberg, was completely unbelievable. Our colleagues there, we have about 150 colleagues in Darfur, [18:25] which is the area where I was. All of those have lost our homes. They are displaced themselves. They [18:30] have lost their homes. Most of them came from Al-Fasher, where a lot of the violence occurred last [18:34] October. I spoke to a colleague of mine who had to walk with her 16-year-old daughter. The daughter was [18:40] threatened. She fought. I mean, I saw the scars on her face. She fought to help her daughter, to keep [18:46] her daughter alive and safe. And then she did get out and was essentially rescued by somebody. So this one had a [18:52] somewhat happy ending, but so, so many don't have that. And you see it in the eyes of the women that [18:58] I spoke to. You know, they walked for days without sleep, just trying to keep themselves and their [19:04] families alive. Most of the households in the north of Darfur, where I was, where there are 700,000 [19:12] displaced people in one stretch of desert, the vast majority of those households are women-led households. [19:18] The men are either have either been killed or have disappeared or have joined the fighting groups. [19:25] So these women are literally doing everything they can to keep their families and themselves alive. [19:30] There's a lot of humanitarian aid that's stuck in that Strait of Hormuz right now because of the war [19:35] in Iran. How significant is the impact on the ability to give goods to those who need it? [19:41] Yeah, it is truly what we say. You know, this is another element of the example of the cost of war, [19:46] right? There is a human cost and then there's the financial cost, which also lead to human cost. [19:50] We have currently about a half million stocks still stuck in Dubai that we can't get out. [19:55] Medicine, drugs, costs of transport have gone up, as you hear everywhere. So, you know, the plumping [20:04] nut treatment for malnutrition for young infants and children who are malnutrition is now, what is it, [20:11] 12 to 15 percent more expensive than it was before the war. So, and it takes longer to get there because [20:18] we have to find alternative routes in order, you know, versus the direct route we had. So, yes, [20:25] it makes it harder and our supply chain teams have already, who have to be incredibly creative [20:32] and adaptive all the time because the logistics in the country are also incredibly difficult to get [20:39] authorization to, I mean, the tarmac road ended an hour after from the border in Western Darfur. So, [20:48] from then on in, it is essentially a very, very rocky road. So, to get stuff there even physically [20:55] is, it takes days and sometimes weeks. Let me ask you about the Middle East. The White House says [21:01] there is tremendous progress on implementing President Trump's 20-point peace plan in Gaza. [21:08] I know you and a number of other organizations said six months into the Gaza ceasefire, the plan is [21:14] failing. Those are two incredibly different accounts of what's happening on the ground. What is happening [21:20] on the ground? So, we've taken the 20-point plan and we literally looked at, okay, so what are we seeing [21:26] on the ground? So, we took the data, our own staff accounts of what they were witnessing, publicly [21:32] available data from the UN and others, to say, okay, so is there less violence? Is there access, [21:39] unfettered access for supplies and for staff? And we scored them accordingly. We've published the [21:45] methodology and we stand by those facts as we see them. There is still, I mean, we have 200 staff in [21:53] Gaza doing heroic work every day. It is incredibly difficult for us to get supplies in. We cannot get [22:01] staff in and rotate it. So, no, that plan as it stands is not working. [22:06] Yanti Sripto, thank you for the work you are doing. We'll be right back. [22:10] Thank you. [22:10] That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching [22:17] and happy Mother's Day to all the moms out there. Until next week, for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.