"Face the Nation" Full Broadcast — Dec. 15, 2024

[0:01] I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington, [0:03] and this week on Face the Nation, [0:05] President-elect Trump promises big change [0:07] for America's role in the world, [0:09] but with much of the world on fire, [0:11] will his policies extinguish the flames or fuel them? [0:15] Mr. Trump's traveling transition team [0:17] didn't have far to go for the annual Army-Navy game. [0:20] This year, it was just outside Washington. [0:23] The game gave his national security picks [0:25] the opportunity to review and cheer on [0:27] some of our future troops. [0:29] We love our Navy, except today. [0:33] Go Army, beat Navy. [0:34] Go Army, beat Navy. [0:36] Unfortunately for them, Navy won. [0:39] And some of Trump's intended nominees [0:41] will face a tough path to victory themselves. [0:45] But one man who's definitely headed for a job [0:47] in the White House, [0:48] incoming National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, [0:52] will join us to preview the new administration's priorities [0:55] amid instability throughout the Middle East, [0:58] tensions in Asia, and an unrelenting war in Ukraine. [1:03] Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., [1:05] Oksana Markarova, will also be here. [1:07] We'll ask how new leadership in Washington [1:09] will change her own country's calculus [1:12] as Russia's invasion grinds on. [1:14] Then, President Biden breaks a record [1:17] by commuting the sentences of 1,500 Americans. [1:20] We'll ask Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar about that [1:23] and the future of law enforcement under Trump. [1:26] Plus, Donald Trump promises Wall Street big changes are ahead. [1:30] We're gonna do things, I think, [1:31] that haven't been really done before. [1:33] We're gonna be cutting taxes still further. [1:35] We'll dive into the details with IBM Vice Chairman Gary Cohn, [1:39] who served as a top economic aide to Trump [1:41] during his first term. [1:44] And finally, a conversation with the head [1:46] of the United Nations World Food Program, Cindy McCain, [1:49] about the link between global hunger and global instability. [1:53] It's all just ahead on Face the Nation. [2:11] Good morning and welcome to Face the Nation. [2:13] Congress and the Biden administration [2:15] are rushing to get business wrapped up [2:17] during this last work week of the year for lawmakers [2:20] before the former and president-elect [2:23] takes the oath of office in January. [2:25] We begin with Congressman Mike Waltz of Florida, [2:28] who is the incoming White House national security advisor. [2:32] Good morning to you. [2:35] Good morning, Margaret. [2:36] Tough day for Army, but a great day for America. [2:39] Indeed. [2:41] Well, as a Green Beret, [2:43] I know you had a reason to be cheering there for Army, sir. [2:47] I wanna ask you a number of topics, [2:49] but before I go overseas, [2:51] you sit on the House Intelligence Committee. [2:53] You also, because of your new role, [2:56] are in contact with President Biden's [2:58] national security advisor, Jake Sullivan. [3:00] Do you think the public should be concerned [3:03] about these reported drones all over the East Coast, [3:07] and have you the need for more authority to deal with them? [3:14] Well, I think what the drone issue points out [3:16] are kind of gaps in our agencies, [3:18] gaps in our authorities, [3:20] between the Department of Homeland Security, [3:22] local law enforcement, the Defense Department. [3:25] I think Americans are finding it hard to believe. [3:27] We can't figure out where these are coming from. [3:30] And I can tell you from the Defense Department standpoint, [3:32] you know, they're focused on bombers and cruise missiles, [3:36] and it's pointing to gaps in our capabilities [3:39] and in our ability to clamp down on what's going on here. [3:45] And we need to get to the bottom of it. [3:47] And I think the Biden administration [3:49] is working to do that. [3:52] But at this point, given the intelligence you've seen, [3:55] is there any reason for the public to be worried? [4:00] Well, look, when you have sensitive sites, [4:03] like Picatinny Arsenal, you have, of course, [4:07] President Trump's residence at Bedminster, [4:10] and you have other no-fly areas, [4:12] those need to be enforced. [4:14] We need to know who's behind it. [4:17] But right now, I think law enforcement seems to be, [4:20] the Department of Homeland Security and the Defense Department [4:22] are kind of all doing this and pointing at each other. [4:25] So when we come in, you know, how do we enforce [4:29] these low-level, long-loitering, could-be-dangerous drones? [4:33] And one thing for people to appreciate, [4:36] you know, they're evolving so rapidly, [4:38] it's not necessarily somebody [4:39] that's just on the other end flying it. [4:42] They could be following pre-positioned GPS coordinates. [4:45] They could be coming from offshore. [4:48] And we need to take a hard look at our homeland defenses. [4:50] President Trump has talked about an iron dome for America. [4:55] That needs to include drones as well, [4:57] not just adversarial actions like hypersonic missiles. [5:02] We need to have an all-of-the-above protection [5:04] of U.S. airspace. [5:06] Understood. Let me ask you about China. [5:09] The president-elect said a few things in the past week [5:12] about China, and he said his team has been talking [5:16] and discussing, as he put it, [5:18] with China's President Xi Jinping. [5:20] CBS was the first to report that an invitation was extended [5:23] to the inauguration, though we do not expect Xi to come. [5:28] Was that the extent of the back and forth? [5:30] Do the two leaders intend to speak by phone? [5:36] Well, Margaret, it's been amazing. [5:38] I mean, the entire world is reaching out to the president. [5:42] In fact, it's been a little overwhelming, the outreach, [5:46] not only to speak with him, to congratulate him, [5:50] but to even come to the inauguration themselves. [5:54] So the outreach has been tremendous. [5:56] President Trump is taking all calls. [5:58] As you know, he believes in having a relationship [6:02] with allies and adversaries at that kind of head of state level. [6:07] And those conversations are ongoing. [6:10] But they are really nothing beyond congratulatory and niceties. [6:16] We are in communication with the current administration. [6:20] We don't agree on all things, but as I've said before, [6:24] none of our adversaries should think this is a moment [6:27] to take advantage of this transition. [6:29] We don't agree with all things, but we are in full coordination [6:32] with the current administration. [6:33] Well, China, you said there should be consequences [6:37] because of their massive and pervasive hack [6:40] of eight U.S. telecom companies, [6:42] which has breached the metadata of potentially millions of Americans. [6:48] Senator Marco Rubio said it was egregious, dangerous, [6:50] and a vulnerability that no one anticipated. [6:53] You're going to be working together. [6:55] What do you plan for the consequences to be? [6:57] Yeah. I think Senator Rubio [7:01] and hopefully future Secretary of State Rubio [7:04] is absolutely right. [7:06] We are, we have been over the years trying to play better [7:10] and better defense when it comes to cyber. [7:13] We need to start going on offense and start imposing, [7:16] I think, higher costs and consequences [7:19] to private actors and nation state actors [7:22] that continue to steal our data, that continue to spy on us, [7:26] and that even worse, with the Volt typhoon penetration [7:30] that are literally putting cyber time bombs on our infrastructure, [7:35] our water systems, our grids, even our ports. [7:39] That is wholly unacceptable. [7:41] And I think we need to take a much stronger stance. [7:45] Senator Rubio is right. [7:46] President Trump has indicated that as well. [7:49] We need to start changing behaviors on the other side [7:52] rather than just constantly having this kind of escalation [7:57] of their offense and our defense. [7:58] The Colonial Pipeline hack was another key point. [8:02] And then finally, we've got a tremendous private sector [8:05] with a lot of capability. [8:06] That relationship between public and private [8:09] with our tech industry, they could be doing a lot of good [8:13] and helping us defend, but also making [8:15] our adversaries vulnerable. [8:17] Is this sanctions day one from the Trump administration? [8:21] Well, I'm not going to get ahead of everything [8:23] that we're doing day one, but taking a different approach [8:27] to cyber, looking at our doctrine, [8:29] and starting to impose costs on the other side [8:32] to get them to knock this off is something [8:35] we'll be taking a look at, I think. [8:37] You were at Mar-a-Lago this past week [8:40] when Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban [8:43] met with Mr. Trump and Elon Musk and yourself. [8:47] He then announced that he had spoken to Vladimir Putin. [8:51] Orban seems to be floating a Christmas ceasefire [8:54] and a prisoner swap. [8:55] Is he carrying with him some kind of message [8:59] from Donald Trump? [9:03] Well, Orban has a regular engagement with the Russians [9:07] and he clearly has a good relationship with President Trump. [9:12] And I would hope the entire world would want to see [9:16] some type of cessation to the slaughter [9:20] that is happening in Eastern Ukraine. [9:22] I mean, Margaret. [9:23] Did Mr. Trump ask him to do that? [9:24] People need to understand this is World War I style. [9:26] This is World War I style warfare. [9:28] It is a meat grinder of human beings. [9:31] President Trump's been very concerned [9:33] about the carnage that's ongoing. [9:35] And where is this all going? [9:37] We need to stop the fighting and, you know, look, [9:41] if that is some type of ceasefire as a first step, [9:44] again, we'll take a hard look at what that means. [9:47] But until January 20th, we are also in coordination [9:50] with this current administration. [9:52] Okay. [9:53] So no message was sent through Orban to Putin by Trump. [9:55] Is that's what I understand you saying there? [9:57] Oh, I'm not going to, yeah, I'm not going to get into [10:00] specifics of back and forths, but one is talking. [10:05] Of course, we're going to continue to talk. [10:07] And the President Trump's made it clear [10:09] he wants this war to stop. [10:11] Does the Trump team plan to limit [10:15] how Ukraine can use U.S. weapons [10:17] or targeting assistance when you take office? [10:23] Well, President Trump just said in the interview [10:25] that, you know, a blank check in his interview [10:27] with Time Magazine, I believe, you know, [10:29] a blank check isn't, you know, just isn't a strategy. [10:33] This just kind of forever war that we seem to be backing into. [10:37] What does success look like in line with our interests? [10:40] How do we end the war? [10:42] Who's at the table? [10:43] How do we drive, you know, all sides to the table? [10:46] And what's the framework for an agreement? [10:49] Those are things that we're thinking through [10:52] with his fantastic team that he's assembling. [10:55] Was that discussed in that 45-minute meeting [10:57] that Mr. Trump had with Mr. Zelensky in Paris last week? [11:01] And do you support putting NATO member states [11:04] as peacekeepers in Ukraine? [11:08] Well, you know, what's been so interesting, Margaret, [11:11] is just since the election, everyone coming to us, [11:15] our European allies, President Zelensky in that meeting, [11:19] and others, have shifted to that framework I just talked about. [11:25] How do we end this conflict? [11:26] How do we do it in a way that restores stability, [11:30] stops the carnage, and hopefully makes this a permanent end, [11:36] not just a pause? [11:38] Those are all things that we're thinking through. [11:40] And in terms of, you know, the question you just asked, [11:43] the NATO Secretary General came here to Mar-a-Lago. [11:47] He's talking about the Europeans taking a bigger role in, [11:53] whether that's on the ground or otherwise, [11:55] after this conflict is over. [11:57] And that's exactly what President Trump has been asking for. [12:00] I have to quickly ask you about the Middle East. [12:02] During the last Trump administration, [12:03] Donald Trump pulled some U.S. troops out of Syria. [12:06] Does he intend to keep the 900 U.S. troops there? [12:12] Look, our number one interest is keeping a lid on ISIS. [12:17] We cannot have an explosion of ISIS back into a caliphate [12:21] that threatens Iraq, threatens Jordan, [12:22] threatens Turkey and Europe, [12:25] inspires attacks in the United States, [12:27] like we saw in 2014. [12:29] President Trump cleaned it up then with his team. [12:32] Thousands of ISIS fighters are in prison camps. [12:35] We're in consultation with the Israelis as well. [12:38] They're, importantly, taking down Assad's chemical stockpiles. [12:42] As well as other things we don't want [12:44] falling into the hands of anybody. [12:46] And, you know, the other piece there that he asked for [12:49] in the first term and that we need to see is, again, [12:51] Europe, who was hit so badly by ISIS attacks, [12:55] taking a greater role in keeping ISIS contained. [12:59] So those are all conversations that we're having, [13:01] again, in consultation with the current administration. [13:04] And we'll see moving forward. [13:08] Congressman Mike Walz, thank you for joining us today. [13:14] Faith Nation will be back in a minute, stay with us. [13:19] And we're joined now by Minnesota Democratic Senator [13:22] Amy Klobuchar, good to have you here. [13:24] Great to be back on, Margaret, thanks. [13:26] Well, Senator, I do want to ask you about these drones [13:28] on the East Coast because we looked at your record [13:30] and you actually co-sponsored legislation a few years ago, [13:33] trying to expand authorities to deal with them. [13:36] Why do you need an act of Congress to deal with this? [13:40] And why didn't the Democrats move on it? [13:42] Well, first of all, the administration [13:44] has repeatedly assured people that they are safe. [13:48] However, one, we need a briefing for the members [13:52] of the Senate to figure out what's going on here. [13:54] Two, we need more transparency. [13:56] And three, I appreciated some of the Congressman's words [14:00] because what he was talking about [14:02] is we need to have a new regulatory rules in place here. [14:05] Right now, you have to register a drone [14:07] if it's over a half pound. [14:09] And there are penalties if you don't do that. [14:11] Well, I think we have to make sure that regime is enforced [14:15] with local and state authorities. [14:17] And then we've got to figure out, [14:18] do we really want all these drones? [14:20] Because while these may be safe, [14:21] who knows what happens in the future? [14:23] And they have to be within 400 feet. [14:25] So these things are going to be, what, [14:27] flying over people's family picnics [14:29] and over their homes and over beaches? [14:32] Like, this is not going to be a good future [14:34] if we see too many of these. [14:35] So I think I was pleased that he said [14:38] he wanted to move forward on some rules [14:40] and finding a way to regulate these in a better way, [14:44] because this just can't be. [14:45] No one knows why this huge drone is right over their house. [14:49] So you might bring this up in the new Republican-controlled Senate? [14:52] Yes. [14:54] Moving on, you sit on the Judiciary Committee. [14:57] So you're going to have a key role [14:59] in overseeing law enforcement under the Trump administration. [15:03] And you'll get to question his selectee to run, [15:07] the FBI, Kash Patel, who has published in his book [15:10] a list of enemies, vowed retribution. [15:13] I want to play something for you [15:15] that Republican Senator Murkowski said just a few days ago. [15:20] The approach is going to be everybody toe the line. [15:23] Everybody line up. [15:24] We got you here. [15:25] And if you want to survive, you better be good. [15:31] Don't get on Santa's naughty list here, [15:33] because we will primary you. [15:35] That is a remarkable thing for a Republican senator [15:39] to say on the record. [15:41] As clearly as she said, she said they are being threatened [15:45] if they don't get in line and vote for some of these nominees. [15:48] Are you getting the sense from your Republican colleagues [15:51] on Judiciary they will get in line and vote through Kash Patel? [15:55] Sadly, there is some of that going on. [15:57] But then you have other people like Lisa Murkowski, [16:00] who has always been a thoughtful, independent voice. [16:03] She believes her job is to do what our Constitution tells us, [16:07] advice and consent, and also that we take an oath [16:11] to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. [16:15] So we have to do our due diligence and make decisions. [16:19] I voted for a number of the past Trump nominees [16:22] for many different jobs. [16:24] I looked at them and decided if I thought they were qualified [16:27] and could they perform the mission of the agency [16:29] and did they have integrity? [16:31] That's what has to happen here. [16:32] And so when you look at someone like Kash Patel, [16:35] who would be replacing Christopher Wray, [16:37] who I believe embodied, he was a Trump appointee, [16:41] went through Biden and embodied the mission of the FBI, [16:45] which is fidelity, bravery, integrity. [16:48] And so now you have someone who says he's on a revenge mission [16:51] when we should be on a national security safety mission here, [16:55] when we look at cybersecurity attacks [16:57] that you just talked to the congressman about [17:00] and various other things. [17:01] He says he wants to dismantle the FBI headquarters [17:04] and turn it into a museum. [17:06] To me, this is not the direction we need to go. [17:08] So I appreciate Senator Murkowski's words [17:11] and also her demand and other Republicans, [17:14] it's gonna be their decisions on these nominees. [17:16] We may vote against them or for them, [17:18] but in the end, it's their decisions, [17:20] her demand for FBI reports [17:22] and making sure that these are not recess appointments [17:24] and there must be open hearings. [17:26] Right, because they have enough votes essentially [17:28] to move on these on their own. [17:31] I wanna ask you about President Biden. [17:33] This past week, he had this record number of commutations, [17:37] 1,500 Americans, more than any president in any single day. [17:42] Among them though, there was a judge involved [17:45] in a so-called cash for kids scheme [17:47] that sent thousands of kids to jail for millions of dollars. [17:51] A man who committed tax fraud [17:52] at a cost of more than $1.6 billion, [17:55] described as the most prolific, pernicious, [17:57] utterly unrepented tax cheat in U.S. history. [18:00] A woman who was involved in a $26 million scheme [18:03] to defraud Medicare. [18:05] Are you comfortable with some of these decisions? [18:07] No, there's also a man in Duluth [18:09] that was running a major drug house basically [18:13] and had all this money under his bathroom tiles, [18:16] was also commuted. [18:17] So the way I look at this is, [18:19] I also didn't agree with the pardon of the president's son. [18:23] I also have not agreed with the number of pardons [18:26] that President Trump gave. [18:27] So I believe, and I've long advocated for this, [18:30] that while the pardon ability is part of our constitution, [18:34] we're not going to change that, right? [18:36] Go way back to President Lincoln, [18:38] who made hard decisions himself [18:41] about deserters from the army, things like that. [18:44] That's been going on a long time. [18:45] But we should have some kind of an outside board [18:48] that governors have. [18:49] Governors have the ability to give mercy to people [18:52] after years have gone by, [18:53] but a lot of them have boards [18:55] that make recommendations and other things, [18:56] instead of people just doing it in the middle of the night, [18:59] and people in the White House, this makes no sense to me. [19:02] Well, this is why it was so surprising [19:03] because the White House described it [19:04] as just based on a broad category [19:08] and not the specifics of the case. [19:11] Exactly. [19:12] Was that prudent? [19:13] I have no doubt there were some righteous pardons [19:15] in this group, okay? [19:16] Let's say that. [19:17] I believe that there were, [19:19] but there were a number that I think make no sense at all. [19:22] So instead of doing a whole category, [19:24] why don't in a coming year, [19:26] before the end of a president's term, [19:28] if that's when they're mostly gonna do these, [19:31] that a board looks at these [19:32] and looks at them individually [19:33] when people petition for them, [19:35] based on the facts, [19:36] instead of just in a large group. [19:38] So large groups have been done before, I believe, [19:41] but I just, I think that this whole process [19:44] cries out for reform, [19:45] because otherwise you undermine the justice system. [19:48] And again, I emphasize, [19:49] this also happened in a big way under President Trump. [19:52] And you undermine the work of these lying FBI agents, [19:56] these lying prosecutors who have taken on these cases, [20:00] followed the sentencing guidelines and made a decision. [20:02] Might you want mercy 10 years later? [20:04] Yes, you might. [20:05] But let's at least look at these on a factual basis [20:08] and a risk basis, [20:10] instead of just in the middle of the night, [20:12] a month before a president leaves. [20:15] Senator Klobuchar, [20:16] thank you for being here today. [20:17] It was great to be on. [20:18] Thank you, Margaret. [20:19] We'll be right back with a lot more [20:20] Face the Nation. [20:21] Stay with us. [20:25] And we're back now with the vice chairman of IBM, [20:27] Gary Cohn, who also served as the White House [20:29] economic advisor in President Trump's first term. [20:33] Gary, welcome back. [20:34] It's expected the Fed's gonna cut rates again this week, [20:37] even though we did see in the economic data release [20:41] that inflation is still high. [20:43] President Trump said, [20:46] can't lower prices once they're high. [20:49] Seems to be admitting [20:50] that it's not within the president's remit [20:51] to control what you spend at the grocery store. [20:54] Margaret, thanks for having me. [20:55] You're right. [20:55] So we had two bits of economic data this week. [20:57] We had consumer prices and we've had producer prices. [21:00] Both came in on the high side [21:02] of where economists were hoping. [21:04] If you look at the consumer prices, [21:06] we're looking at about 2.7% on consumer prices. [21:10] Remember, the Fed's target for inflation is about 2%. [21:14] So we're running almost a percent high. [21:16] Producer prices came in even higher than we were expecting. [21:19] So we're not down to that target 2% [21:21] where the Fed would like to get to. [21:23] That said, the Fed is meeting next week. [21:26] The Fed is highly, it's highly viewed [21:29] that the Fed will cut interest rates [21:31] by 25 basis points next week. [21:33] That means over the course of this year, [21:34] they will have cut interest rates by 100 basis points. [21:38] Now, as you look forward in the next year, [21:40] people had projected they would cut a lot more. [21:42] I think we are seeing the rate of cuts slow down [21:45] and slow down quite dramatically [21:47] as people are starting to evaluate [21:49] the economic data that we have. [21:50] So what does that mean in terms of the economy [21:53] President Trump will be inheriting? [21:54] So the President's inheriting a very good economy, [21:57] a very stable economy. [21:59] We have real solid economic growth. [22:01] We have real job growth. [22:03] We have real wage growth. [22:04] And I think some of the wage growth that we're seeing, [22:06] we've seen a lot of these union contracts [22:08] be renegotiated in the second half of this year. [22:11] Those wages feed through the economy. [22:13] They feed through as inflation. [22:15] So the economy of the President's inheriting [22:17] is quite strong. [22:18] I think it will continue to stay quite strong. [22:21] And in fact, the American consumer today, [22:24] as well as corporate America, [22:26] is quite excited about what the Trump administration [22:29] is talking about. [22:30] And the business environment is very positive. [22:33] Corporate America is talking about a lot of expansion, [22:35] a lot of capital expenditure for next year, [22:38] about repatriating more jobs back to the United States, [22:41] about building more factories in the United States, [22:43] hiring more workers. [22:44] You think that'll actually happen? [22:45] I do think it's going to happen. [22:47] So net net, we are talking about a very positive business [22:50] and cycle going forward into 2025. [22:53] Is the stock market really the best way to gauge it? [22:55] You saw Mr. Trump at the stock exchange this past week. [22:58] Well, look, the stock market is one benchmark. [23:01] It's an index, it's a benchmark. [23:03] And remember, the stock market is an index. [23:05] There's a huge diversity of what's going on [23:08] in the stock market. [23:09] There's some of the tech stocks at the high end [23:11] that are performing very, very well. [23:13] And there's some of the more traditional stocks [23:16] in the middle of the market that are not performing as well. [23:18] We got to take a break and finish this conversation [23:20] on the other side of it. [23:21] Stay with us, Gary. [23:22] We'll be right back. [23:30] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [23:31] We're continuing our conversation now with Gary Cohn. [23:35] Gary, before the break, you were telling us [23:36] the business world has high expectations [23:39] for the Trump administration. [23:41] One of the things that Donald Trump promised to do [23:45] in his second term was lower the corporate tax rate. [23:48] So you helped put together the tax plan [23:51] that's expiring in 20, or part of it's expiring in 2025. [23:56] He said at the New York Stock Exchange this week [23:59] that he wanted to go down further from 21%. [24:02] He really wanted to get it back down to 15, [24:05] and we will be able to do that. [24:08] Will he be able to do that? [24:10] Look, Mark, we don't know. [24:12] You know, look, the whole tax discussion [24:14] is going to happen over the course of 2025. [24:15] Why did you do it in 2017? [24:17] In 2017, we did not have the financial wherewithal to do it. [24:22] When you go through reconciliation, [24:24] which is how they will do taxes this time in 2025, [24:29] you are given instructions by the Budget Committee. [24:32] The instructions are basically how much money you can spend, [24:35] or how much revenue you could take in. [24:37] This time it will be how much money you can spend. [24:39] We did not have additional money to spend. [24:42] So the lowest we could get the corporate tax rate [24:45] at that time was the 21%. [24:48] That's also the reason that the corporate tax part [24:51] of the tax legislation in 2017 expires the end of 2025. [24:57] To score that piece of legislation, [24:59] which in the financial requirements we were given [25:03] by the Senate and the House Finance Committees, [25:07] we had to end the personal side at the end of 2025. [25:11] So we do know that taxes will be taken up [25:14] by this Congress in this session. [25:16] We know that they're going to have to deal [25:18] with the personal side of the equation, [25:20] because if not, the personal side will revert back [25:22] to the pre-2017 tax code. [25:25] That was a very arduous, ugly tax code [25:28] with much higher rates, with a lot more loopholes, [25:30] a lot more deductions. [25:31] I don't think anyone wants, on either side of the aisle, [25:34] wants to go back to the prior tax code. [25:37] You know when we open up tax code, [25:38] even if we're just talking about the personal side, [25:41] the corporate side will come into play. [25:43] And there's always this interesting relationship [25:45] between the personal side and the corporate side, [25:48] because the vast majority of companies in the United States [25:51] are small businesses that file on a tax return [25:56] that allows them to pay the personal rate, [25:57] but there's a difference between the personal rate [26:00] and the corporate rate. [26:01] And you want to make sure that those relationships [26:03] don't get too far out of the line with each other, [26:07] so people aren't incentivized to change their corporate [26:10] structure to become a subchapter S corporation [26:13] versus a corporation, so they can take advantage [26:16] of the tax code. [26:17] So there's always a lot of time spent there [26:19] to make sure the personal rate and the corporate rate [26:22] make sense in relationship to each other. [26:24] I think you said in the past, though, [26:26] you don't think the corporate rate [26:27] should go down further. [26:28] Well, the business community as a whole, [26:30] when we did tax reform in 2017, [26:33] and whether you look at the Chamber of Commerce [26:35] or you look at the Business Roundtable, [26:36] you look at any of the business organizations, [26:38] they were very supportive of a 21% tax rate. [26:42] They, in fact, I think would have been happy [26:44] with anything at 23% or below, [26:47] which put us in line with other OECD countries [26:50] around the world. [26:51] It made us competitive. [26:52] Other developed economies. [26:52] Other developed economies. [26:54] Obviously, companies will be happier [26:56] if the tax rate goes lower, [26:57] but realistically, we just need, in this country, [27:00] to be competitive with the rest of the world. [27:03] We do not want corporate taxes to be a disadvantage [27:05] for U.S. domiciled companies. [27:08] The pick for Treasury Secretary is [27:10] hedge fund manager Scott Bassant. [27:13] You may know him. [27:16] He says he's going to deliver on the Trump tax cut pledges, [27:18] but that's eliminating taxes on tips, [27:21] Social Security, overtime pay. [27:23] Can he actually deliver on any of that? [27:25] Look, Scott is quite an accomplished individual. [27:28] So, look, I know he will put a lot of effort into this. [27:31] He will have a lot of help with other people. [27:33] Kevin Hassett, who's going into my old job at the NEC, [27:36] will have an important seat at the table. [27:38] Kevin understands a lot of these policies. [27:40] There will be a lot of opinions at the table [27:42] when we get to tax writing. [27:44] You know, the House and the Senate [27:45] will have their opinions. [27:46] Remember, there are members of the House [27:48] that ran on one item and one item only. [27:50] They ran on the idea that we should bring back [27:53] the state and local tax deduction, the SALT deduction. [27:57] There were also members that ran on being deficit hawks. [28:00] There were Republicans that ran on thinking [28:02] that we have built up too much deficit, [28:04] and we need to get our budget under control. [28:07] We're going to have to find a way... [28:08] They're not going to like any of these promises. [28:10] I agree with that, but we're going to have to find a way [28:11] to balance all of these needs and get to a tax plan [28:15] that makes sense, but allows us to continue [28:18] to drive our economy, continue to drive the economic growth, [28:22] and continue to drive wages and jobs. [28:24] Well, you heard the House Speaker say [28:26] some of this may be done through reconciliation, [28:28] which implies that the Senate [28:29] isn't going to seek a majority vote. [28:31] They're just going to try to put this through with 51 votes [28:34] and do it in kind of an arcane way. [28:37] When is this going to happen, and should it happen [28:39] before they fix the border? [28:41] Well, it sounds like, from what I'm hearing, [28:43] and I don't know this could change in any way. [28:46] There's other people smarter than I [28:47] deciding on the strategy on this. [28:49] It sounds like there may be two reconciliation bills. [28:51] It sounds like the first reconciliation bill, [28:54] which you're right, is a bill that allows the Senate [28:56] to do something in a simple majority, budget-related only. [29:00] You can only reconcile a budget, budget-related [29:02] with a simple majority. [29:04] It sounds like there may be a first reconciliation bill, [29:07] which is border-related, where they may take back [29:10] much of the unspent Inflation Reduction Act money [29:13] and some of the other money that was appropriated [29:15] under the Biden administration, [29:17] and use that to close the border. [29:18] And then they'll get the taxes. [29:20] And then use a second reconciliation bill, [29:22] because there are two budgets out there, [29:23] as there were in the Biden administration. [29:25] Use that to go after taxes and fixing taxes, [29:30] especially the personal side of taxes that ends in 2025. [29:33] That's a big fight to have in the year ahead. [29:36] Gary, we'll be talking to you again then. [29:37] We've got to take a break. [29:38] Thank you. [29:43] And we're joined now by the Ukrainian ambassador [29:45] to the United States, Oksana Markarova. [29:47] Good to have you back with us. [29:48] Thank you for having me, and bless Sunday to all. [29:52] No Western power, as you know, is sending troops to Ukraine [29:56] to help Ukrainian forces. [29:57] But Russia's got North Korean troops now who are fighting [30:02] on their side. [30:03] Yesterday, President Zelensky said Russia has been using [30:06] a significant number of North Koreans. [30:09] How are they fighting? [30:12] Yes, and we are not asking for other troops. [30:14] Ukrainians are still capable of defending our own country. [30:17] We're asking for the military support. [30:19] Yesterday, we have seen those tens of thousands of troops [30:23] that we were warning the word about. [30:25] We have seen hundreds of them on the battlefield already. [30:28] And we are successfully fighting with them as we are fighting [30:33] with the Russians. [30:33] I mean, look, we see them now in Kursk Oblast only. [30:37] And our brave defenders were not only able to kill a lot of them, [30:43] but also keep the positions. [30:45] So it's difficult, of course, to see the reinforcement [30:48] from this axis of evil. [30:50] But it will not change anything for us. [30:52] We will continue defending the very long line, [30:55] whether it's in southern eastern Ukraine [30:59] or whether it's our defensive operation in Kursk. [31:01] And in the meantime, the North Korean troops [31:03] are getting trained in modern warfare, [31:07] and they're learning in Ukraine, I mean, right there. [31:10] Absolutely. [31:11] And we also have to worry about what is it that Russia is promising [31:15] or even delivering to North Korea in exchange for this [31:19] and Korean missiles. [31:21] But I also raise the manpower issue [31:23] because it's a problem for Ukraine as well. [31:27] Military recruitment is tough right now in Ukraine. [31:30] There has been pressure on your government [31:32] by the United States to lower the draft age [31:35] so that you can boost the number of fighters. [31:39] This is arguably a bigger issue than the weaponry itself. [31:43] Is it affecting the ability of Ukraine to keep up this fight? [31:46] I wouldn't agree that it's a bigger issue [31:48] than the equipment itself. [31:50] We still have, first of all, [31:52] we have a number of young people fighting for Ukraine [31:55] and they are volunteering and women are volunteering. [31:58] Ukraine is one of the countries [31:59] that lifted all restrictions for women, for example, [32:02] and we have 60,000 of women in the armed forces. [32:05] With the recruitment, the last changes to the law [32:08] and mobilization already allowed us to create new brigades, [32:12] which we are training now. [32:13] And the problem is to have enough equipment [32:16] to train them on so that we can actually not send [32:20] to the battlefield like Russians do, right, [32:22] unprepared, whether it's North Koreans or unprepared Russians, [32:25] but to send soldiers who can do and deliver on a mission. [32:29] And it's very important for us [32:30] because every person matters for Ukrainians. [32:33] Of course, there are challenges and we have the plan [32:35] and we know how to do it because, again, [32:37] this is our home we are defending. [32:39] So when it's necessary, [32:40] all of us are going to be defending our country. [32:43] But weapons and having more weapons, especially long range, [32:46] especially something to counter this 3,000 glide bombs [32:51] every month that Russians are sending against us, [32:54] these missiles for both Russian and North Korean missiles. [32:58] I mean, it's still a question of artillery and weapons [33:02] and air defense, most importantly. [33:04] And the more we can have, the faster we can, [33:06] the more efficiently we can defend. [33:09] Well, the Biden administration has been releasing [33:11] more weapons just in the last week alone. [33:13] But Donald Trump gave an interview to Time magazine [33:16] and he said the United States is escalating [33:19] by allowing for weapons, missiles to be shot [33:23] into Russian territory. [33:24] He specifically focused in on that. [33:27] He does not like that Ukraine is doing it. [33:30] What does that mean for you [33:32] on day one of the Trump administration? [33:34] Well, let me say, start by saying thank you [33:37] to all American people really for standing with us all this time. [33:41] Let me thank President Biden and his administration [33:44] for all the support. [33:45] Let me thank President Trump. [33:46] He is the one who made a historic decision [33:49] to provide us with javelins, [33:50] actually to provide us with lethal aid in the first place. [33:53] Back in 2017. [33:54] Yes. [33:55] So right now we have to do everything in order to stop Russia. [34:02] And we know it could be stopped. [34:04] It was recently stopped in Syria. [34:06] We liberated more than 50% that they have taken. [34:09] We actually kicked them out from the Black Sea [34:11] just with our own naval drone capabilities. [34:14] They could, we can stop them. [34:17] The more equipment we have, [34:20] especially including the longer range equipment, [34:23] in order to be able to degrade [34:25] the attack capabilities faster, [34:27] the faster they will either come to the table [34:30] because again, Ukraine wants peace. [34:33] Nobody wants peace more than us. [34:35] Ukraine was never a problem. [34:37] We never initiated this conflict. [34:39] And we negotiated at the first sites, [34:42] remember in 2022 when Russians started negotiations. [34:45] They, of course, did not negotiate peace. [34:47] They negotiated the pause. [34:49] As we just heard Congressman Walts, [34:52] who absolutely rightfully said, [34:54] it has to be peace, not a pause. [34:57] Mm-hmm. [34:58] He was careful. [34:59] He didn't give a lot of specifics [35:01] as to what the Trump policy will be. [35:03] But we do know that Viktor Orban [35:06] was at Mar-a-Lago this past week, [35:08] and he talks to Vladimir Putin, [35:09] and he's talking about a Christmas pause. [35:11] Do you see a chance for a Christmas ceasefire [35:13] in prisoner exchange? [35:15] This is very difficult winter. [35:17] After Russia destroyed our, [35:19] a lot of our energy infrastructure, [35:22] and after, you know, [35:24] we are going through these difficult fights, [35:27] both on the front line, [35:28] but also civilians suffering [35:30] from the deadly missile attacks. [35:31] Just this past week? [35:33] Yes. [35:33] At the same time, you know, [35:36] every time Russia is talking about some ceasefire, [35:39] they are lying. [35:40] Russians are lying. [35:41] And we see they were not able to defend their body, [35:44] terrorist body, Assad, and he fled to Russia. [35:48] And we see horrible atrocities in Sydney prison, [35:51] like we see in Ukraine everywhere. [35:52] It reminded me isolation prison in Gronetsk, [35:55] which still is operational. [35:56] So, look, you know, [35:58] if Russia wants seriously to stop it, [36:00] they can stop it anytime. [36:02] Ambassador, I have to leave it there. [36:04] Thank you so much for joining us. [36:06] Thank you. [36:06] We'll be back in a moment. [36:10] Scenes of jubilation in Damascus [36:12] as thousands of Syrians mark the first Friday prayer [36:15] since the fall of the Assad regime one week ago. [36:17] Our Elizabeth Palmer has more. [36:21] I have never seen Damascus so filled with joy. [36:26] Bashar al-Assad, the dictator, had fled to Moscow. [36:30] And just like that, the fear of saying something [36:33] that might get you arrested was gone. [36:37] The Islamist fighters who'd seized power a week ago [36:41] were partying too. [36:43] In the main souk, shoppers walked on Assad's face. [36:47] While at Sidnaya prison, [36:49] where his critics were tortured and killed, [36:52] crowds poured into what Syrians [36:54] used to call the slaughterhouse. [36:57] It's some kind of maybe underground holding cells. [37:01] This is where political prisoners were disappeared. [37:06] Horrible, dark, damp, smelly, cold. [37:11] All week, families combed the cells for clues [37:15] that might tell them what happened to their husbands, [37:18] their fathers, their sons. [37:20] In a house near Damascus, we met an American, Travis Timmerman, [37:25] who'd entered Syria illegally and been locked up [37:28] in an Assad jail since May. [37:30] You've got more than you bargained for, have you? [37:32] Huh. Well, I'm here. [37:35] You're alive? Yeah. [37:37] He is a lucky man. [37:39] As soon as the regime fell, [37:42] local people set him and the rest of prisoners free. [37:47] At the ancient Umayyad mosque, [37:49] the fighter's leader, Abu Muhammad al-Jolani, [37:52] was welcomed, a conquering hero. [37:54] He's changed his look from the old days [37:58] when he was affiliated with al-Qaeda. [38:00] And a master of modern messaging, he posted on X, too, [38:04] inviting all Syrians to join in rebuilding the country. [38:08] His inner circle has promised elections in March, [38:12] but not everyone buys it. [38:14] Rumors are spreading like wildfire [38:17] that no matter what they say, [38:19] these men mean to rule like al-Qaeda 2.0. [38:24] Syrians are afraid, [38:26] especially the Christian and Alawite minorities, [38:29] that when the dust settles, [38:30] they'll find that a new tyranny has simply replaced the old. [38:36] That's Elizabeth Palmer in Damascus. [38:38] We spoke with the executive director of the U.N.'s World Food Program, [38:41] Cindy McCain, last week, [38:43] and began by asking about the situation in Syria [38:46] and how her organization is getting food [38:48] to those who need it most. [38:50] Well, our deliveries so far have been very smooth, [38:53] but we need more delivery options open, [38:56] which is what this was alluding to. [38:58] More importantly, we have been able to get 70,000 people fed [39:02] this month so far, but we need more. [39:05] And more importantly, we need the funds to do it. [39:08] That's where we're lacking. [39:09] You know, WP never left Syria. [39:11] We've always been in there, [39:12] but now we need more routes, [39:14] more ability to get in and to get not just more trucks, [39:17] but more people in so that we can help in the best way we can. [39:21] The U.S. still has some sanctions on Syria, [39:23] but they do let in U.N. humanitarian aid. [39:27] There was a call in Congress, a bipartisan one this week, [39:30] for the United States to lift some sanctions. [39:33] Are you experiencing U.S. sanctions [39:36] getting in your way at this point? [39:39] Not really. [39:40] We've been able to, as you said, [39:42] we've been able to move our goods through our food items, [39:46] et cetera, through and get it to where it needs to go [39:48] in a safe and a quick manner as well. [39:51] But I don't, I will never underestimate the process [39:56] with things that it could infringe us later on. [39:59] So I'm hoping that things stay calm, that we can move our goods, [40:02] again, in a safe and secure manner, and do it at full scale. [40:06] If we can't work at scale, we can't feed. [40:09] And you said you're short on funds. [40:10] How much do you need? [40:12] Oh, worldwide, I could use $17 billion right now, [40:15] if you want to know the truth. [40:17] There's so much, there's so many, many countries [40:20] that have absolutely no access to any fundings. [40:22] No one's paying any attention to it. [40:24] So why did you say funding is down? [40:29] People are just not paying attention? [40:32] Yeah, countries are rerouting their funding in different ways. [40:37] They're choosing to fund things in different manners [40:40] or not to fund at all. [40:41] And I'm asking now, I'm asking on your show worldwide [40:44] to please consider, once again, giving to Syria, [40:48] because people in Syria will starve to death without it. [40:52] And we've seen the evidence of great hunger there. [40:55] You know, you and I have spoken in the past on this program [40:58] about the U.S. contributing so generously to the U.N., [41:02] the largest funder, arguably the most important partner [41:06] to the United Nations, and you had encouraged Beijing [41:10] to really kind of step up their game. [41:12] And you had said there was somewhat of a lack of willingness [41:16] to be a part of working together as a team worldwide. [41:20] Have you seen any change to that? [41:22] Not much. [41:23] I encourage all countries to get involved, including China. [41:26] We need help from everybody. [41:29] The world is on fire right now. [41:31] And hunger is at the forefront of all of this. [41:35] And most importantly, you know, when people are hungry, [41:39] this becomes a national security issue. [41:42] And so it affects not only the countries that it's affecting, [41:45] but it affects us worldwide. [41:47] And it does affect national security. [41:49] So it's important that every country worldwide get involved [41:51] and be involved in this. [41:53] So I want to ask about Sudan. [41:55] I know you were recently there. [41:57] It's in the midst of a brutal civil war. [42:00] The U.S. has accused both sides of ethnic cleansing. [42:04] Can you keep trucks going into Sudan to feed people there? [42:10] Oh, it's such a complicated situation. [42:13] Right now we have 30-some convoys on the road going into Sudan [42:19] to hit the various places that we need to get to. [42:21] But we need more. [42:23] Certainly Darfur has been a big issue, [42:25] but we have other parts of the country that are just as needy. [42:28] And where famine does exist, as you know, it's been declared there. [42:32] And we need also to be able to come through Khartoum [42:36] and make sure that we can access from that direction as well. [42:41] It's been a slow process, but we have been able to get in. [42:44] But we need more. [42:45] Again, food security is national security. [42:48] Don't ever forget that. [42:49] Because if people are insecure from a food reality, [42:54] they're not going to behave well. [42:55] And things, they start to migrate. [42:57] Wars begin that way. [42:58] Conflict is a part of all of this. [43:00] I'd be remiss to not ask you about what's going on in Gaza. [43:04] Jake Sullivan, President Biden's national security adviser, [43:07] said this week the U.S. has stood up to Prime Minister Netanyahu [43:11] to say, let's make sure that Israel is not responsible [43:15] for the third famine of the 21st century. [43:20] Are we at famine in Gaza? [43:22] We're very close to it. [43:24] We've seen the effects of it. [43:25] We've seen what's going on. [43:27] Listen, we're in the month of November. [43:29] WFP has been able to get two trucks in. [43:32] That's all. [43:33] Two trucks in the month of November. [43:35] And, of course, now we're into December. [43:38] This whole issue of not being able to get in is unseemly. [43:43] We need unfettered access. [43:45] We need a ceasefire, and we need it now. [43:48] We can't no longer sit by and just allow these people [43:51] to starve to death. [43:52] We need help, and we need to make sure [43:54] that we put political pressure on those [43:55] that need to have political pressure put on them. [43:58] We've seen images of crowds just crushing people, [44:03] amassing at bakeries in Gaza. [44:05] Ninety percent of the population cannot return to their homes. [44:09] They're displaced. [44:10] Only four bakeries are operational for nearly two million people. [44:16] This is man-made. [44:18] It is man-made. [44:19] You're absolutely right. [44:21] It is man-made. [44:22] And more importantly, the world needs to take a hard look at this [44:27] and realize that not just do they need food, but we need access. [44:31] And the targeting of humanitarian aid workers is unconscionable. [44:36] We need to get in and do our job. [44:38] And more importantly in all of this, make sure that we can feed. [44:43] Children especially are starving to death. [44:45] I mean, the height of malnutrition, the height of hunger within that region [44:50] is unbelievably horrible. [44:53] And so we have seen it firsthand. [44:54] And I, as the leader of the largest humanitarian aid agency in the world, [45:00] I'm calling for a cease-fire. [45:02] And I want my aid, my fellow partners within this arena to call for the same thing. [45:06] Understood. [45:07] You use the word targeted. [45:09] Who's targeting your workers? [45:11] Well, there's lots of things that are going on. [45:13] There's gangs that are running. [45:14] If we're speaking directly about Gaza, it's gangs that's running around. [45:17] It's the lawlessness. [45:19] Director McCain, I know you have a lot of need. [45:21] You're looking for $17 billion is the number you are asking for. [45:26] We wish you good luck feeding the world. [45:29] Thank you. [45:30] Thanks for having me. [45:32] We'll be right back. [45:33] That's it for us today. [45:38] Thank you for watching. [45:39] Until next week, for Face the Nation, I'm Margaret Brennan.