Face the Nation: Emanuel, Turner, McKenzie

[0:00] We go now to the former mayor of Chicago [0:03] and the former U.S. ambassador to Japan, [0:06] Rahm Emanuel. [0:07] Welcome to Face the Nation, Ambassador. [0:09] Thanks, Margaret. [0:11] I have so much to get to with you, [0:12] but I know you worked with Senator Lindsey Graham [0:16] for a time here in Washington. [0:18] You weren't exactly on the same page politically, [0:20] but I wonder your thoughts on his passing. [0:23] Good observation. [0:25] No, look, you lost a patriot. [0:27] We disagreed, but we weren't disagreeable about it. [0:30] There were three things we worked on. [0:31] One, he represented John McCain. [0:33] I represented then-Senator Obama on the debate rules. [0:37] Two, when we had a meeting during the transition, [0:41] Senator McCain, Lindsey, the president-elect, myself, [0:44] we agreed to work on a national service bill, [0:46] which we actually got done in spring 2009 [0:48] that doubled the size for AmeriCorps and for the Peace Corps. [0:51] And then third, our final, [0:53] which was really the most difficult, [0:54] but we got to an agreement, [0:55] which was to close Guantanamo. [0:57] It was Senator Levin, Lindsey, [1:00] myself, representing the administration. [1:01] We got to a final issue. [1:04] The attorney general was against it, [1:06] which was the trial of the sheik, [1:08] which he wanted civilian. [1:11] Lindsey said it had to be military court [1:13] to get the 15 votes. [1:15] That's not what happened. [1:16] And so therefore, [1:17] and it was one political analysis, [1:20] which I thought was accurate, [1:22] versus a legal analysis, [1:23] which was maybe by the law, [1:25] but wasn't going to happen. [1:25] And so we worked at my desk as the chief of staff, [1:29] I don't know, [1:29] the dozen meetings between Carl Levin, [1:32] myself, and the senator, [1:33] that would actually have closed Guantanamo, [1:37] moved all the prisoners out, [1:38] and brought that chapter to America to end. [1:42] Now, did we see everything 100%? [1:44] No. [1:44] Did we find compromise? [1:45] Absolutely. [1:46] Yeah. [1:48] Well, Ambassador, [1:49] we need to take a break [1:50] and finish our conversation [1:51] about the significant speech [1:52] you just gave in Israel a few days ago, [1:55] but we're going to do that in a minute. [1:56] I hope everyone will stay with us. [1:58] We will be right back. [2:04] Welcome back to Face the Nation. [2:06] We continue our conversation now [2:07] with Ambassador Rahm Emanuel. [2:10] Ambassador, [2:10] you are just back from a trip overseas. [2:13] Your family, I know, [2:14] has deep ties to Israel. [2:16] You worked during the Clinton administration, [2:18] the Obama administration, [2:19] on important Mideast issues. [2:21] In this speech, [2:22] you just delivered. [2:24] You were very critical [2:25] of Palestinian authorities' leadership failures. [2:28] You faulted Arab states [2:30] for not doing more [2:31] in a credible way [2:32] for the Palestinian people. [2:34] And then you took aim [2:35] at Prime Minister Netanyahu, [2:37] saying he has led his country [2:39] into a dead end. [2:41] What do you hope you accomplished? [2:45] Well, it was not just a criticism. [2:47] All those are clear, [2:49] and I will have stated that. [2:49] I also said the United States [2:50] made mistakes in the past. [2:52] But I laid out a plan [2:53] that gets out of Israel [2:54] being a pariah. [2:55] It's went from a technological prowess [2:57] to a territorial pariah. [3:00] And for a small nation, [3:01] that's not survivable. [3:02] In 22 years, [3:03] it will be 100 years old. [3:04] You cannot survive like this. [3:06] So one, [3:07] not a two-state solution, [3:08] a 23-state solution, [3:10] taking the Arab League's offer [3:11] to recognize the state of Israel, [3:13] all 21 nations, [3:14] if they come to an agreement [3:15] on security for the state of Israel, [3:17] which is essential, [3:18] and Palestinian sovereignty. [3:20] That's Israel's best day [3:22] and Iran's worst day. [3:24] Second, [3:25] building off the India-Mideast-European [3:28] economic corridor, [3:28] which would be [3:29] the most important trade route, [3:30] and put Israel's technological prowess [3:32] at the center, [3:33] break into the economic integration [3:35] that's happening. [3:36] So that was a plan. [3:38] Others can offer theirs. [3:39] But to me, [3:40] it addresses the single most important thing [3:42] for the future of this alliance, [3:44] that you cannot reduce [3:46] your national security apparatus [3:47] with military power, [3:48] economic, statecraft, [3:51] political persuasion, [3:52] and cultural attraction. [3:53] Reduce three of them [3:54] and let them atrophy, [3:56] and your entire national security apparatus [3:57] is only military power. [3:59] And that's an example [4:00] of how Israel has a breakout. [4:02] That is good for alliance. [4:03] The United States is strong with NATO. [4:05] You can see that in the public opinion. [4:06] The United States public opinion [4:07] is also strong with our Asian allies. [4:09] This is the only ally [4:10] that is in the low 20s in support. [4:13] That is not a sustainable path [4:14] for an alliance that's essential [4:16] for Israel, America, security. [4:19] You said the current Israeli government, [4:22] the Netanyahu government, [4:24] views every security challenge as a nail [4:26] and Israel's military as a hammer. [4:29] That sounded very similar, [4:30] to me at least, to this. [4:32] Listen. [4:34] You're a country of 9 million people. [4:36] You can't just kill your way [4:39] out of solving every single [4:41] national security problem that you have. [4:44] I imagine there aren't a lot of points [4:45] of agreement between you [4:46] and the vice president, J.D. Vance. [4:48] But do you see this? [4:50] Correct. [4:50] On the right and left [4:51] as a major shift in policy here [4:54] for the United States [4:56] that does not turn around? [4:58] So two things, Margaret. [5:00] In 2009, when I challenged, [5:03] as chief of staff for President Obama, [5:04] I challenged the prime minister directly, [5:07] not, I didn't need this war, [5:10] directly, that what you're doing [5:11] on housing in the West Bank [5:12] will lead to perpetual conflict [5:15] and isolation. [5:16] If there was a prediction [5:17] I wanted to be wrong on, [5:18] that was it. [5:19] So telling somebody the truth, [5:22] even when it's painful, [5:22] that's not new to me. [5:24] I was also in the room [5:25] with President Obama [5:26] when we funded and started funding [5:28] the Iron Dome that has protected [5:30] thousands of Israeli civilians. [5:32] I believe funding the Iron Dome [5:35] is right for America's strategy, [5:36] right for Israel. [5:37] I think making sure [5:38] that you're not having a, [5:40] undermining the West Bank [5:42] or the possibility [5:43] of a two-state solution, [5:44] a 23-state solution [5:45] is also in Israel's security interest. [5:47] And I want to get back to, [5:48] those go hand in hand. [5:50] And so my view is, [5:52] take Syria, for example. [5:54] There's no more Assad. [5:56] You have a head of Syria [5:57] that is the transitway [5:58] to Hezbollah from Iran [5:59] of all their weapons. [6:00] The Syrian head of state [6:02] has said that he, [6:04] Iran is a problem [6:05] and that Israel and he [6:07] should have a security agreement. [6:09] Nobody's called. [6:10] I said, [6:10] I'll pay for the phone call charges. [6:12] Pick up the phone [6:13] and come to a security agreement [6:15] where your northern part, [6:17] Jordan is secure on the east, [6:19] Egypt is secure on the south. [6:21] Syria, you would actually [6:22] have a security agreement. [6:23] That breaks out. [6:25] Diplomacy, political strategy, [6:27] is dormant as a part [6:28] of Israel's national security. [6:29] And that, therefore, [6:31] harms the United States. [6:32] My number one goal, [6:33] what advances America's interest? [6:35] If they don't change, [6:37] the status quo today [6:38] is unsustainable. [6:40] I did it in the interests [6:41] of America, [6:42] the alliance with an ally [6:43] that is isolated politically [6:44] at home and abroad. [6:46] And to your point, [6:47] I was in Syria in September [6:48] and I saw the parts of Damascus [6:51] that were bombed [6:52] by the Netanyahu government [6:53] very recently. [6:55] And you would cut off Hezbollah. [6:56] You would cut off Hezbollah [6:58] from Iranian weapons. [6:59] That's in your national security. [7:01] Well, Trump might be trying [7:01] to do that. [7:02] That doesn't require the military. [7:03] Trump may be trying [7:04] to do that. [7:05] Again, I offer my telephone card, [7:07] AT&T. [7:08] You can use it anytime. [7:09] They can make a call [7:10] to Damascus. [7:11] But bringing you back here [7:12] to home, [7:14] when I just finished [7:15] that conversation [7:15] with the current Israeli ambassador [7:17] to the United States, [7:18] who, by the way, [7:18] very much supports [7:19] Israeli settlements [7:20] in the West Bank, [7:21] as you know, [7:22] he did take a hit there [7:24] at those trying [7:25] to launch presidential campaigns [7:27] from his country. [7:28] He was speaking [7:29] about Representative Ro Khanna [7:31] and what happened to him [7:33] in the West Bank. [7:34] But some are saying [7:35] that about you too, sir. [7:36] I mean, how do you respond [7:38] to that? [7:38] And do you agree [7:39] with words like apartheid [7:41] and genocide [7:41] that progressive Democrats [7:43] like Khanna use [7:44] to talk about [7:44] the current Israeli government? [7:47] Second, I was invited [7:48] by Tel Aviv University. [7:49] So I took it up. [7:51] And I didn't just [7:52] offer criticism. [7:53] I offered a plan for peace. [7:56] Second, I go back [7:57] to working on this [7:58] with President Clinton [8:00] on both the Oslo Accords, [8:02] the Y Plantation, [8:03] Camp David, [8:03] and with President Obama. [8:05] And third, [8:06] if it comes to where you start [8:08] or how you do, [8:09] I haven't decided [8:10] whether I was going [8:11] to run for president. [8:11] But the first thing I did [8:12] was go to Mississippi [8:13] that has moved [8:14] from 49th to 9th [8:15] on reading scores. [8:16] I have made education [8:17] the score. [8:18] We as a country, [8:19] 50% of our kids [8:21] cannot read at grade level. [8:23] And we know [8:23] everybody in Washington [8:24] is radio silence [8:25] on the future [8:26] of this country. [8:27] So if there's going [8:27] to be a place, [8:28] it wasn't the Middle East. [8:30] It was actually [8:30] down in Mississippi [8:31] where I went. [8:33] That is where [8:33] the future of America is. [8:35] Now, one thing I know, [8:37] Margaret, [8:37] about the White House, [8:38] you have to be good [8:39] in the Situation Room, [8:40] the Board Room, [8:41] the Break Room, [8:42] and the Classroom. [8:43] And the problem [8:44] for both parties [8:45] is one stuck in the bathroom [8:46] and the other one [8:46] stuck in the bedroom. [8:47] Get out and focus [8:48] on the future. [8:50] Ambassador, [8:50] we'll leave it there. [8:51] Look forward to having you [8:52] back to talk more. [8:53] We'll be right back. [8:56] And we're joined now [8:57] by Ohio Republican [8:58] Congressman Mike Turner. [9:00] It is good to have you [9:01] here, Congressman. [9:02] I know you are [9:03] a friend to Ukraine. [9:05] Senator Graham [9:06] certainly was. [9:07] As I mentioned, [9:08] he was so excited [9:09] about finally getting [9:10] to move this sanctions [9:11] and tariffs bill. [9:13] Do you think [9:14] that this will [9:15] go forward [9:16] without a champion [9:17] like him behind it? [9:19] Well, let's hope. [9:20] Let's hope, [9:20] as you had indicated, [9:22] that that is [9:22] one of the legacies [9:23] that the Senate [9:24] will move his bill. [9:26] You know, [9:26] I was at the NATO summit [9:28] with Lindsey Graham [9:30] and another senator [9:31] last week, [9:32] Senator Shaheen Coons, [9:35] Durbin, [9:37] rounds. [9:38] And as we met [9:39] with Zelensky, [9:41] Lindsey Graham [9:41] was making the point [9:43] of the need [9:44] for this sanctions bill [9:45] that has passed the House [9:46] and that I've co-sponsored [9:47] and that should pass [9:48] the Senate [9:48] that Lindsey has been [9:49] such a champion for. [9:50] It was his bill. [9:52] You know, [9:52] what's so sad [9:53] about losing Lindsey [9:54] is that, you know, [9:54] in this debate now [9:55] that we have [9:56] of America first, [9:58] you can be America first [9:59] and still understand [10:01] that it doesn't have [10:02] to be America alone, [10:03] that, you know, [10:04] allies want America's voice. [10:07] America's voice [10:08] is important. [10:09] America needs to stand [10:10] for freedom [10:11] and democracy [10:12] and liberty. [10:13] And that's what they saw [10:14] in the voice of Lindsey Graham, [10:16] you know, [10:16] in McCain's voice [10:17] and Reagan's voice. [10:18] And what they saw [10:20] in Lindsey was someone [10:21] who was willing [10:22] to stand up [10:22] and say, [10:23] you're not alone. [10:24] America is with you. [10:26] And we're not going [10:26] to do it for you. [10:28] We're not going to, [10:29] you know, [10:29] come in and decide for you, [10:31] but you're not going [10:32] to be alone. [10:32] And he was that voice [10:34] with Ukraine, [10:35] having just gone to Ukraine, [10:36] saying, [10:37] we're going to be with you. [10:38] And this bill [10:39] would be an important symbolism [10:40] to say, [10:41] we're going to be with Ukraine. [10:42] And I certainly hope [10:43] the Senate moves it this week. [10:44] And we can put it on [10:45] the President's desk this week. [10:47] As you had said earlier, [10:48] he had been in touch [10:49] with you and said [10:50] he believed he had movement [10:51] from the White House [10:51] for that bill. [10:52] We should pass this bill [10:53] put on the President's desk. [10:55] Do you know [10:55] if Republican leadership [10:56] has considered that [10:58] at all at this point? [10:59] I don't. [10:59] I know that, [11:00] you know, [11:00] we certainly have the news [11:01] where they had just said [11:02] upon our return [11:03] from the NATO summit [11:03] that they believed [11:04] that they could move [11:05] this in the Senate. [11:06] The House has already [11:07] passed a version [11:08] of this bill. [11:09] So I know [11:10] there's broad support. [11:11] There were more than [11:14] a veto-proof number [11:16] of senators [11:17] who co-sponsored it. [11:20] With the White House's support, [11:21] this bill could be [11:22] on the President's desk [11:23] this week. [11:24] Let me ask you as well [11:25] about NATO. [11:28] You had voted for a bill [11:30] years ago, [11:32] CAATSA we'll call it, [11:33] that would challenge [11:35] what Turkey had done, [11:36] which was buy [11:37] this Russian weapons system. [11:39] And President Trump [11:40] said this week [11:41] that he's okay [11:41] with lifting some [11:42] of the sanctions [11:42] and letting Turkey [11:43] have the F-35 fighter. [11:46] How could that happen [11:47] and not violate [11:49] the law that you supported? [11:50] Right, [11:50] so you're speaking [11:51] of the S-400s, [11:51] which is the Russian [11:52] air defense system [11:53] that Turkey had purchased. [11:55] And during that time, [11:56] Congress had passed, [11:57] which had been signed [11:58] into law, [11:58] a bill that would restrict [11:59] the president's ability. [12:01] In the first Trump administration. [12:02] Right. [12:02] And to waive sanctions [12:05] that were placed [12:05] on Turkey, [12:06] including it had taken them [12:08] out of the F-35 program. [12:10] Turkey has signaled [12:13] that they are now [12:14] in a position [12:15] that they want [12:16] to comply [12:16] with that bill [12:18] that would put them [12:19] in a position [12:20] where the S-400 [12:22] would no longer [12:23] be an impediment [12:24] to their entering [12:25] back into the F-35 program. [12:26] I certainly hope [12:27] that that occurs. [12:28] They'll sell it [12:28] to somebody else? [12:28] The information, [12:30] I mean, [12:30] I can't disclose [12:31] what they had told to us, [12:32] but it's very promising [12:33] of all the senators. [12:34] We agreed together [12:36] that we would be able [12:37] to publicly say [12:38] what we heard [12:38] was very promising [12:39] and Sutter Shaheen [12:40] has said, [12:41] you know, [12:41] she was one [12:41] of the original authors [12:42] of this. [12:43] She believes it's promising. [12:45] If they do this [12:46] and to get them back [12:47] in the F-35 program [12:48] is incredibly important. [12:49] They're a member of NATO, [12:50] a very strong member [12:51] of NATO having just, [12:52] of course, [12:52] hosted the summit, [12:53] which was very successful. [12:54] I certainly hope [12:55] that they follow through [12:56] and that they do so [12:57] in a manner [12:57] that returns them. [12:59] They were also [12:59] a producer of parts [13:00] for the F-35, [13:01] so entering back [13:02] into production [13:03] would be very, [13:04] very important. [13:04] I want to ask you [13:06] about some other things [13:07] on the domestic front [13:09] as well. [13:10] Late Friday, [13:12] Homeland Security [13:13] made an announcement [13:14] that they're going [13:15] to change, [13:16] they want states [13:17] to change the way [13:18] that elections [13:18] are conducted [13:19] or if states refuse, [13:21] they'll lose millions [13:22] in federal terrorism [13:23] prevention funds. [13:24] So there were [13:25] a list of things [13:26] in there, [13:27] including switching [13:27] to paper ballots, [13:28] which nearly every single [13:31] state has a paper [13:32] backup system [13:32] at this point. [13:33] What do you think [13:35] of this federal pressure [13:36] to get states [13:37] to change their elections? [13:39] Right, [13:39] so I'm not really familiar [13:40] with this announcement. [13:41] Obviously, [13:42] there is concern [13:42] in Congress [13:43] of federal intervention [13:45] on the election side. [13:46] As a conservative, [13:47] you must. [13:47] On the state side, [13:48] but at the same time, [13:49] there is also, [13:50] or America First, [13:52] the provisions [13:55] of the bills [13:59] that are moving [13:59] through the House [14:00] that relate to [14:01] ensuring that we have [14:04] identification for people [14:05] to prove that [14:07] they're American citizens, [14:09] mail ballots, [14:10] as the president [14:10] has made [14:11] as a portion [14:14] of his provisions [14:15] that he continues to... [14:17] He wants to change [14:18] all these things. [14:19] All of those things [14:20] are of concern [14:20] and certainly [14:21] we have to address them. [14:22] You're, [14:23] how many days [14:24] until the midterm elections? [14:26] At this point, [14:26] that's not really practical. [14:27] If the House [14:28] has passed these provisions [14:29] several times, [14:30] all of which I have voted for, [14:31] I think the Senate [14:32] does need to move [14:33] these provisions. [14:34] But did you vote for it [14:35] knowing that the Senate [14:35] doesn't have the votes [14:36] to actually make it [14:37] become law? [14:39] Vote yes, hope no. [14:40] I think the president [14:42] is certainly making [14:44] a very good case [14:45] as to how these provisions [14:47] need to become law. [14:48] And I think that [14:49] they are ones [14:49] that will ensure [14:50] for the American public [14:51] integrity in voting. [14:53] Well, [14:56] non-citizens can't vote [14:57] in federal elections. [14:58] That became one [14:59] in 1996. [14:59] The concern is [15:00] how do you ensure [15:01] that that's going, [15:02] that that is occurring. [15:04] And we need to make certain [15:05] that we ensure [15:06] that that occurs. [15:07] At the state level? [15:10] I'll let you go on that. [15:11] Having identification [15:12] should be at least [15:14] the way to ensure [15:16] that someone, [15:18] that we know who's voting. [15:19] How do we have, [15:20] I mean, [15:20] there's so many things [15:21] that you have to have [15:22] identification for. [15:23] How do you let someone vote [15:25] and not even have [15:26] an identification? [15:26] I can't understand [15:27] how anyone would be [15:28] opposed to that. [15:29] And this is one [15:29] of those things [15:30] where it's off the charts [15:31] that the American public [15:32] believe that people [15:33] should have identification [15:33] to vote. [15:34] This should pass. [15:35] Yeah, [15:35] and that's often required [15:36] when you register. [15:37] Very quickly, [15:38] do you know what the plan [15:39] is to deal with the Haitians [15:41] who are having [15:42] their temporary protected status [15:43] revoked in Springfield, Ohio? [15:46] So as of Friday, [15:47] there's been a short-term extension [15:48] because of the- [15:49] So the 24th of July. [15:50] Just over two weeks. [15:51] You know, [15:52] the Marguerine Mullins secretary [15:53] has said that those individuals [15:55] who are working, [15:56] that they should look to [15:58] as a manner in which [15:59] they might be able [16:00] to be included [16:01] in other processes [16:02] because, you know, [16:02] they're contributing [16:03] to society. [16:04] Certainly, you know, [16:05] our governor, Mike DeWine [16:06] and myself and others [16:07] who have individuals [16:09] in our community [16:10] who are going to be affected [16:11] are certainly advocates [16:12] for these individuals [16:13] to be able to stay [16:14] in our communities [16:15] who are working [16:16] and contributing. [16:17] They're valuable people [16:18] in our community. [16:19] And we certainly hope- [16:20] And you voted for Congress [16:20] to extend this. [16:20] We certainly hope [16:21] that they can stay [16:23] and be able to contribute [16:25] to our communities. [16:27] We're going to continue [16:28] to track that [16:29] and whether they have that hope [16:31] beyond the 24th of July. [16:33] Congressman, [16:34] thank you for your time. [16:36] We'll be back in a moment. [16:38] We go now [16:39] to the former commander [16:40] of the U.S. Central Command, [16:42] retired General Frank McKenzie. [16:45] General, welcome back. [16:46] You know, [16:47] I was just looking back [16:49] at my last conversation [16:50] on Face the Nation [16:51] with Lindsey Graham [16:52] and the senator said, [16:54] if this deal fails, [16:56] President Trump [16:56] is going to take [16:57] the Strait of Hormuz over [16:58] by force. [16:59] The U.S. will control [17:00] the Strait of Hormuz. [17:01] That was three weeks ago. [17:04] How does the United States [17:05] end up controlling [17:06] the Strait of Hormuz? [17:10] Well, Margaret, [17:11] we certainly have the capability [17:13] to control [17:13] the Strait of Hormuz [17:14] if the president chooses [17:16] to follow that course of action. [17:18] Look, what he's been trying [17:19] to do is get to a diplomatic [17:20] and a political solution here, [17:21] which I applaud [17:22] and I think we should all [17:23] want to see [17:24] as the final end state. [17:25] Nonetheless, [17:26] the fact of the matter [17:27] is the Iranians [17:28] generally only respond [17:29] to military force [17:31] and to extreme pressure. [17:33] Look, we're not talking [17:33] about regime change here. [17:35] What we're talking about [17:35] is modifying the views [17:37] and actions [17:38] of an extreme hardline regime. [17:41] That is possible. [17:42] We have the capability [17:43] to do that. [17:44] That capability [17:44] is resident [17:45] in the U.S. military [17:46] should the president [17:47] elect to employ it. [17:48] That would include [17:49] opening the Strait of Hormuz, [17:51] maintaining the Strait of Hormuz [17:52] open, [17:53] and in fact, [17:54] seizing Karg Island [17:55] should we elect to do that. [17:56] And I would just say [17:57] as an aside, [17:58] that's something [17:59] we should think about doing [18:00] because possession [18:01] of Iranian soil [18:02] would be a significant factor [18:05] in future negotiations [18:06] with Iran. [18:07] So all those options [18:08] are on the table. [18:08] I'm not sure [18:09] where we're going [18:09] to go with this, [18:10] but I do know [18:11] we have these capabilities. [18:13] We have those capabilities, [18:15] but the president [18:15] has made clear [18:16] he kind of just wants [18:17] a deal here. [18:20] How do you explain [18:21] to the layperson [18:21] when the president says [18:23] we control [18:24] the Strait of Hormuz, [18:25] but then CENTCOM says [18:27] military forces [18:28] are positioned [18:28] to ensure [18:29] freedom of navigation, [18:30] which makes it sound [18:31] it isn't exactly [18:32] free-flowing traffic here. [18:37] No, it's not right now [18:39] because we have not [18:40] deployed all the capabilities [18:41] that we have [18:41] to open the Strait. [18:43] We certainly can do that. [18:45] It would require [18:46] putting warships [18:47] up into narrow waters. [18:48] Look, the U.S. Navy [18:49] doesn't love to do that, [18:50] but they're very good at it, [18:51] and if necessary, [18:52] they can do it, [18:53] and they can do it well. [18:54] You've got to go back [18:55] to the basic principle [18:56] of Iranian statecraft, [18:58] which is regime preservation. [19:00] If you want to gain [19:01] concessions from Iran, [19:02] you have to directly [19:03] pressure the regime, [19:04] and you have to do so [19:05] in a way that perhaps [19:06] is existential to them. [19:08] We have those capabilities [19:09] should the president [19:09] choose to go that way. [19:11] Do those capabilities [19:12] need to involve [19:14] ground troops, [19:15] and have you been [19:17] at all surprised [19:18] by the amount of pain [19:19] that it appears [19:20] the Iranian leadership [19:22] is willing to take on here [19:25] while turning down [19:26] all the financial incentives [19:27] the Trump administration [19:28] is offering them? [19:31] Margaret, [19:32] given the history of Iran [19:33] and their negotiating posture [19:35] over many years, [19:37] I'm not surprised at all [19:38] by the current Iranian posture. [19:42] A former CENTCOM commander [19:43] once said, [19:44] you know, [19:44] Iran has never met [19:45] a war they could win [19:46] or a negotiation [19:47] they could lose. [19:48] And that's very true. [19:49] What Iran wants to do [19:51] is extend negotiations in time, [19:53] arguing about the size [19:54] of the table, [19:55] who's in the room, [19:56] the font on the document, [19:57] everything about [19:58] except the core issues. [20:00] We need to recognize that, [20:02] and we need to be prepared [20:03] to pressure Iran [20:04] to negotiate [20:05] on the real germane issues. [20:07] And by that, [20:08] I mean opening [20:09] the Strait of Hormuz, [20:10] some movement [20:10] on ballistic missiles, [20:11] some movement [20:12] on support for proxies. [20:14] All those things are capable, [20:16] we are capable [20:17] of getting some form [20:18] of movement [20:18] on all those things. [20:19] We just have to be willing [20:20] to put pressure on Iran [20:21] in order to achieve those goals. [20:23] I mean, [20:24] Jordan said overnight [20:25] three missiles [20:25] fell into their territory. [20:27] There were no casualties [20:28] according to CENTCOM, [20:29] but they're firing off [20:30] at Bahrain, [20:31] Kuwait, [20:31] Qatar, [20:32] Oman. [20:33] They continue to be able [20:34] to target American partners [20:36] and places [20:37] where American troops are. [20:38] Does that surprise you? [20:39] It does not surprise me at all. [20:43] What surprises me actually [20:45] is not surprises me, [20:47] but what gratifies me [20:48] is that Iranian attacks [20:50] have not been larger [20:51] or more capable. [20:53] Many years ago [20:54] when we wargamed scenarios [20:55] like this, [20:56] we assumed the Iranian response [20:57] would be more robust. [20:59] The fact that it is not [21:00] more robust [21:01] is a testimony [21:02] to Admiral Cooper [21:03] and Central Command's ability [21:04] to go after these targets [21:06] and make it hard [21:07] for Iran to fashion [21:08] cohesive large strikes [21:11] against our forces. [21:12] Now look, [21:13] these strikes are going [21:13] to continue. [21:14] This is not a bloodless endeavor [21:16] we're embarked upon. [21:17] And bases are going to be hit [21:19] and buildings are going [21:20] to be destroyed [21:20] and tragically people [21:21] are going to die. [21:22] And if we're going to stay [21:23] in this game [21:24] and continue to confront Iran, [21:25] which I believe [21:26] is in our interest to do, [21:27] we've got to be prepared [21:28] for this. [21:29] Quickly, [21:30] your thoughts [21:31] on Senator Graham. [21:34] Senator Graham [21:35] was a great representative [21:36] of the state [21:37] of South Carolina [21:38] and our nation, [21:39] a great voice [21:39] in the national security space [21:41] and a particular friend [21:42] to the Citadel, [21:43] the Military College [21:44] of South Carolina. [21:45] Over many years, [21:46] he's done a lot [21:47] of great things [21:47] for our school. [21:48] In fact, [21:49] he embodies the concept [21:50] of the citizen soldier, [21:52] the person who isn't [21:52] a professional military officer, [21:54] pursues a broad, [21:55] deep, public, [21:56] professional career, [21:57] and yet dons the uniform [21:58] and serves his nation. [22:00] That's what we seek [22:01] to produce at the Citadel. [22:02] No better person [22:03] to emulate [22:03] than Lindsey Graham, [22:05] and we will miss him dearly. [22:07] General, [22:07] thank you for your time. [22:08] We'll be right back. [22:09] Before we go this morning, [22:12] a note on Senator Lindsey Graham, [22:14] a fierce Ukraine supporter [22:16] who had just returned [22:17] from his 10th trip [22:18] to that war zone [22:19] at what was a key moment [22:21] for one of his [22:22] proudest accomplishments. [22:24] I spoke twice by phone [22:25] on Friday [22:26] with Senator Graham [22:27] while he was in Kiev, [22:28] and he told me [22:29] it was a big day. [22:31] He was excited [22:32] to share the news [22:33] that the Trump White House [22:35] had finally given him [22:36] the green light [22:37] for Congress [22:38] to move his long-sought bill [22:40] to put significant [22:41] financial penalties [22:42] on the biggest buyers [22:43] of Russian oil. [22:45] He had just met [22:46] with President Zelensky [22:47] and said that while [22:48] he didn't want [22:49] to get ahead of Trump, [22:50] he believed [22:51] that the U.S. president [22:52] now sees the Ukrainian leader [22:54] as more of a winner now. [22:56] Graham wanted me to know [22:58] that Senator Blumenthal, [22:59] his Democratic colleague [23:01] who he had partnered with [23:02] on the bill, [23:03] deserves a lot of credit. [23:04] It was a rare act [23:06] of bipartisanship [23:07] and a hyper-partisan time, [23:09] and it had shades [23:10] of the type [23:10] of across-the-aisle work [23:11] he and Senator John McCain [23:13] used to broker [23:14] with another Connecticut [23:15] senator, Joe Lieberman. [23:17] It was almost exactly [23:19] one year ago [23:20] to the day [23:20] that Graham and Blumenthal [23:22] had joined us [23:22] on Face the Nation [23:23] to talk about [23:24] their bipartisan effort [23:25] to pressure Russia [23:26] through sanctions [23:27] and tariffs [23:28] on buyers of their oil. [23:29] We're going after [23:30] the people [23:31] who keep Putin in business [23:33] and additional sanctions [23:35] on Russia itself. [23:36] This is truly [23:37] a sledgehammer [23:38] available to President Trump [23:40] to end this war. [23:41] Following Graham's passing, [23:43] it falls to Republican [23:44] leaders in Congress [23:45] to make the decision [23:46] on whether to take it up. [23:48] Graham had just appeared [23:49] with us three weeks ago [23:50] to push another big goal, [23:52] turn the morass [23:53] of the Iran war [23:54] into an opportunity [23:55] for normalization [23:56] of relations [23:57] between Saudi Arabia [23:58] and Israel, [23:59] and a brighter future [24:00] for Palestinians. [24:01] He'd worked with [24:02] then-President Biden [24:03] to try to get that done, [24:05] but the work was stymied [24:06] by the horrific attack [24:07] of October 7th. [24:09] That unfinished business [24:11] also now lays waiting. [24:14] That's it for us today. [24:15] Thank you all for watching. [24:16] Until next week, [24:17] for Face the Nation, [24:19] I'm Margaret Brennan.