EXCLUSIVE: Michelle Obama in her own words — MS NOW FULL INTERVIEW

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Barack, you gotta look at me. No, I'm not. [00:00:06] Speaker 2: Before she became first lady... I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear. Before stepping onto the global stage... [00:00:13] Speaker 1: When they go low, we go high. [00:00:16] Speaker 2: Michelle Obama spent her childhood on the South Side of Chicago. South Side? The South Side is now home to the Obama Presidential Center. It's done, girl. And she hopes South Side kids like her [00:00:29] Speaker 1: see the dividends. An $850 million investment. I am the kid that knows that that matters. [00:00:38] Speaker 2: Welcome to "Hope Comes Home," the Michelle Obama interview. Hello, hello, I'm Michelle Norris, and welcome to this special hour, "Hope Comes Home," the Michelle Obama interview. The Obama Presidential Center is now open to the public on the South Side of Chicago, just a couple of miles from where former First Lady Michelle Obama grew up. At the opening ceremony, she took her place among former presidents and foreign dignitaries, among artists and musicians, honoring her husband's legacy by making sure people fully understand all that he did and all that it took. [00:01:12] Speaker 1: You were doing the people's work, rescuing our economy, expanding health care, ending a war, ordering the Bin Laden rate, saving an auto industry, winning a peace prize. keeping us safe from Ebola, regulating the banks, standing up for marriage equality, listening to science, and comforting an entire nation in the face of unspeakable tragedies. And you did it all with such grace and class and cool that you made the hardest job in the world look like a walk in this beautiful park. [00:02:07] Speaker 2: Presidential libraries and museums are traditionally monuments to the men who serve their country. I was on the storytelling committee for the Obama Presidential Center, a group of historians, scholars, and writers. And it was clear to us that the Obamas wanted to do something different. And that meant including and elevating the first lady's story. Her memorabilia is not pushed into a corner of the museum. The campus recognizes that the South Side is her home turf and that she emerged from those eight years in the White House as a global superstar in her own right. Ahead of the center opening to the public, I sat down for a wide-ranging conversation with Michelle Obama. We talked about legacy, we talked about family, and we talked about what it means to bring the Obama Presidential Center to the South Side of Chicago. Let's get into it. It is a thrill to be with you at the Obama Presidential Center. It's done, girl. And I was a library kid so I feel a little odd about having a conversation in a library. We can do it though. We can do it because it's closed. And we're here in the reading room. We're here in the reading room, yeah. And we're on the South Side of Chicago. We are home. And I want to talk to you about the South Side. Please, what do you want to know? And I invite you to correct me if I'm not saying it right because I've lived in Chicago. I have all kinds of relatives who are on the South Side, but I never lived on the South Side. And there's a particular way of saying it. [00:03:29] Speaker 1: Oh, well, it just depends on the mood. You know, if you really call them out, it's South Side, you know. I'm not doing that. But otherwise, that's exactly right. Otherwise, it's the South Side. Yeah. [00:03:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I want to talk to you about the South Side. What do you want to know? This, you know, incredible complex lands here right on the South Side of Chicago where you grew up. What does it mean to you? What does it mean to your community to have this level of investment in the place where a young Michelle, Vaughn, Robinson grew up? [00:04:05] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:04:06] Speaker 2: Did Double Dutch, rode her bike around this area? [00:04:10] Speaker 1: Let me give you a sense of what the community was like when I was growing up. You know, I was born in the 60s. I think my parents moved from a little further south to 74th in Euclid with my Aunt Robbie when I was one. So my adolescent years were in the 70s and that was at the beginning of white flight. So this community that we moved into was a mixed race community and it was people of all backgrounds and races. But there was a period which all my white friends were gone, you know, and I remember that my Uncle Terry mowed his lawn where kids played outside and there were block club parties. But you could slowly see the slow deterioration of the entire South Side, stores that were closing down, you know, the park programs just kind of went away. You just slowly noticed that the stuff wasn't there anymore. And I think as I got older and started leaving my community, especially when I went to high school, which was a magnet high school on the west side, went to Whitney Young, my commute took me more and more through downtown and over west. And, you know, we were cultured, you know, we went to museums, we did things like that. But I started noticing that the investments downtown were very different, you know, that in order to do or see or experiencing anything beyond what you knew, you had to get on a bus or pay for parking or, you know, take the L and go to a whole nother community to experience beautiful parks and to really enjoy the lake and to see art and to see culture. It was here, but it wasn't here. All right. I think they call that disinvestment. It's disinvestment. And the thing I've written about with Becoming is that that disinvestment is felt by kids, you know, and you see it in your schools. You see the favorite teachers retiring and leaving and not being replaced. They're not being replaced. You see the deterioration of the PTA. You see, you just slowly see things getting a little worse. You don't know why, but you know it's not what it should be. And I try to remind people of that when, you know, there are communities that are deciding where to place important development projects and how money is allocated. That kids like me eventually notice that we weren't afforded nice things. Even though we were still the same amazing families where our parents worked hard and all our neighbors were still concerned about their property, it was just slowly but surely the resources weren't being spread as equally as far as I could feel. But we, South Shore is, was a beautiful community full of values and young kids striving for things. Kids, they were good kids, you know, from good families. And that's where I, that's where I grew up. That's my, that's this neighborhood. So, I want to give you that context. That's a level. [00:07:57] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when something like this opens, and there really is nothing else like this, and you decide to make an investment in a community like this. An $850 million investment. [00:08:09] Speaker 1: That says something. Yeah. That says something. It's supposed to say something. [00:08:14] Speaker 2: What will that mean in terms of the material difference that that would make? Yeah, yeah. You know, the opportunities that might come here, the jobs that people might have access to, the other people that might decide, well, maybe I want to take a look at the South Side. [00:08:27] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, first I think about what it'll mean to kids like me. This is something that Barack and I talked about. This is why the artwork at the Presidential Center is as important as the Archives. Because it was important for me that kids like me could be right in their neighborhood and see world-class art. And as you know, 90% of the art is in public spaces. You don't have to pay. You don't need a ticket. You don't need a ticket. If I hadn't gone to the Magnet High School, Hyde Park Academy would have been the high school that I went to. And the notion that those kids are coming in and out of their school with the backdrop of beautiful art in a garden and fountains and well-manicured outdoor space and a public library that is this magnificent, that was decorated by Michael Smith, a world-class designer. And that there'll be the energy that is coming in and out of this building that is the hub. And it's happening across the street from where they live. I am the kid that knows that that matters, that that says something about what the world thinks of me. Right? So that's the first impact that I think the OPC will have and is probably already having. Even the notion that kids in this community witness the construction of this magnificent building. You know, construction doesn't happen. Big construction doesn't happen in working-class communities where you see scaffolding and deep digging and the intimate and the intricate design of a big, massive high-rise building happening. And the park space. I mean, and I just think about kids who are dreaming, they want to be architects who have never seen a building go up. They've never seen a project like this unfold. [00:10:27] Speaker 2: Right. We think we see skyscrapers all the time in downtowns, but they don't. [00:10:30] Speaker 1: Well, we do. We do. But any kid that's interested in construction or design, I'm just thinking this must have been fascinating for the last decade or so to watch this building become what it is. Right? And what that's going to do to their outlook on who they want to be and what they can be. Mm-hmm. So I think about that. And then, of course, there are the jobs. And my husband and his team, an amazing team of people, many of whom have worked in economic development and planning. Mm-hmm. They know this city. They understand the challenges and travails that it takes for any project to go up in a major city. Um, and diversity and inclusion was an important part. Minority and women business involvement happening at the very outset. Mm-hmm. [00:11:26] Speaker 2: So construction workers. Vendors. Landscaping crews. [00:11:29] Speaker 1: Submit people. The steel people. The, because again, there are a lot of small minority-owned companies that never get to train on big projects. Mm-hmm. Right? So in order to get a big project, you have to have worked on a big project. Right. So sometimes they are blocked out of the bigger opportunities because they don't have the experience. [00:11:48] Speaker 2: So you create an on-ramp. [00:11:49] Speaker 1: You create an on-ramp. A lot of times it works. Sometimes there are challenges. But the whole point was to give these subcontractors a chance to say that they've done something big so that they can then go on to compete for the other major construction projects where the real money is happening. So that thoughtfulness happened from the day the earth was dug and the trees were cleared and moved and the roads were rearranged. And that also includes training in the trades. Right? Because if you want electricians and women who are doing some of the jobs that don't often go to women, they've got to be trained. Mm-hmm. So the thought process- And have the experience. And have the experience. So this project helped to set up training opportunities for women electricians and young people who need qualification to be able to apply to the union. Mm-hmm. So all of that, you know, because of my background in Barak's and understanding economic development here in the city and what it takes to do it for real. Mm-hmm. Right? So that's created. This project has been creating jobs from the day it started. So it's an example of lifting while you climb. Exactly. [00:13:13] Speaker 3: Exactly. More of our interview with Michelle Obama next. [00:13:18] Speaker 2: There are spaces throughout the complex that are named for other people. Yes. You know, the president did not just put his name all over the building. Yeah. There are spaces that are named for all kinds of people throughout the complex. Mm-hmm. One of them is a young woman named Hadiyah Pendleton. Yeah. And she had just returned to Chicago from a majorette performance. Yeah. In Washington, D.C. [00:13:47] Speaker 1: She went to King High School, which is a little further north from here. A young girl just like me. Mm-hmm. You know, straight-A student, very involved. Mother and father who did everything they could do to keep her busy and active and engaged. She was going to college, and she and her classmates were among that high school, or at least it was the majorette troop, but the kids were selected to march in the inaugural parade. Mm-hmm. And she was returning from that really amazing experience, and like a lot of kids in urban environments, she fell victim to random gun violence, and she was killed. They were looking for someone else. They weren't, you know, it was just random stuff. Mm-hmm. She was, she was an innocent bystander. She wasn't doing anything except, you know, standing on the corner talking to her friends. Mm-hmm. She wasn't in a gang. She wasn't doing, she was a, she was an outstanding kid. And hearing that just impacted me in a way. It's like, man, this is what happens to, you know, when kids don't have investment. Mm-hmm. Because I think of her loss, but then the kids that were so idle and, and uninvested in that, they're just running around with guns. Mm-hmm. Right? And those kids have promise too. I knew some of those kids too. When you know when things go off the rail that leads kids to become something that they weren't meant to be. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You feel for them too. That's a loss. So I decided I needed to come, I needed to come to her funeral. Mm-hmm. And that was during the first term and I met her classmates and I met her mom and her family and fell in love with them and we've stayed close throughout. So when we were thinking about the naming, naming rights of a building, Barack and I were very clear that while we love our funders and donors, many people have given, written and huge checks, many of them dear friends of ours, we said, you know, we want the naming to mean something about the community and about the South Side and about the world in general, you know? So we asked donors to give without wanting to name, which for some is hard to do, right? You're asking people for big sums of money. Big check. I want to see my name on the building. Right. I want to see my name. Hydea Pendleton was at the top of my list. So the major forum, there's a plaza with her in her name. And we picked her because she represents all the young potential that's in this community, that some are lost, but many are still thriving. And we think that that's, you know, her name should be remembered, you know, for what she represents to communities all over this country. [00:17:10] Speaker 2: It's a beautiful remembrance and beautiful honor for her and for her family for years to come. Yeah. For years to come. You, as I understand, did not spend a lot of time looking over your husband's shoulder. You didn't spend a lot of time visiting the complex during the construction phase. You had your first tour recently where you saw the museum exhibits as they now are, as they're open to the public. Yeah. You decided to hold back a little bit. [00:17:42] Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:17:44] Speaker 2: Well, first of all. [00:17:45] Speaker 1: Why? Well, you know, it's a big project, a big vision. And I wanted this to be Barack's show. I really did. I wanted him to own it and to make the major decisions about it. You know, also with a big project, I wanted to make sure that decision making was clean. You know, when you have two principals, it's like, well, what does Michelle think and what does Barack think? And it's like, yeah, you know, it's going to be great. So it's a lot of it is that the trust that I have in my husband and the team of people. I mean, Valerie Jarrett is a dear friend. She is running the show. Tina Chin is here. Michael Stratmanis. I mean, these are all people that I've worked with, I've known, worked in the city. It was like, they're going to handle it. I am very engaged and active in the program part. But in terms of what the building was going to be, I was like, they got it, you know. So I had the pleasure of really, now I've been on site, but I've been on the construction site, you know, with the hard hats and the shoes and all that at almost every phase. But I hadn't been back until Friday, this past Friday. I saw it completely finished. [00:19:07] Speaker 2: And how was that? [00:19:08] Speaker 1: And I've seen pictures, of course. Everybody, they're sending me pictures. But you need to see it though. Exactly. [00:19:13] Speaker 2: This is, you know, for people who are watching this, it's one thing and we're glad you're watching and you get a taste of this right now. [00:19:17] Speaker 1: Right. There is really nothing like walking into the spaces. There was no picture that I saw that fully captured the magnitude, the power, the beauty, the elegance, the class, the style, the thoughtfulness, the emotion that you will experience walking through. Yeah. There are definitely components, especially a lot of the videos of the campaign and those times and the hopefulness and the camaraderie and the unity and the diversity, you know, just all kinds of people made it happen from all political walks of life, from all races, all parts of the country, all around the world. You know, there's this one tape of the reaction on election night at Grant Park. Well, it was just election night reaction. I mean, Michelle, I, we were so busy. I never had a chance to see the reaction. [00:20:32] Speaker 3: And we have breaking news, momentous news, really. The AP is now ready to call. [00:20:38] Speaker 2: Barack Obama will be the 44th president of the United States of America. [00:20:44] Speaker 1: In all these years. Right. Because you were in your own space. [00:20:49] Speaker 2: And you move on. [00:20:50] Speaker 1: Thinking about the girls and everything else. It's like, election? Done? Okay. Where are they going to school? Yeah. I mean, with the staff, there wasn't much time to reminisce or to watch footage or to listen to reports. It was really the first time I saw accounts of the emotion people felt, you know, when Barack was, when it was called. I'd never experienced that. So, that was a thing. [00:21:20] Speaker 2: We'll be right back. When you got the first look of the portrait of the two of you, it's the first time that you're both in a portrait together. Yeah. And they caught... [00:21:36] Speaker 1: Indie Jekka Crosby. [00:21:37] Speaker 2: The artist. Let's give her her flowers. Mm-hmm. Um, we got to see you see it for the first time. Yeah. You know, the video was released. Yeah. And your expression was priceless. Oh, really? [00:21:48] Speaker 1: Oh, what was it? [00:21:49] Speaker 2: I mean, you were just, like, wide-eyed. Yeah. And partly, you know, because it's a beautiful piece of art, I imagine you were surprised at the size. [00:22:00] Speaker 1: It is beautiful. Was there anything that surprised you? [00:22:03] Speaker 2: It's not just your story. It's probably going to be a choke point in the museum because you see so many different images in there. Yeah. [00:22:11] Speaker 1: That's also the artist's approach, which is why we, I love Indie Jekka, the artist. All of her paintings are paintings within paintings, pictures and images within. So that's how she paints. That's how she creates work. So the fact that, so I knew that that was going to be a part of it. But even knowing that, you know, when you step back and see the bigger image and then slowly get closer and see the power of all the selections of images that, and where she placed them and why she placed them there. I mean, it's like, where's Waldo for the Obama administration, you know? So for example, she decided to put in the backdrop a window that has my childhood home. Yes. And in the windows upstairs, it's the image of Barack and my mom sitting on the sofa the night of the election when his name was called. Yes. It is a very powerful image where, you know, Mom. Yeah. She's just got the kind of, oh my goodness. It happened look. [00:23:16] Speaker 2: She's sitting back in the sofa. [00:23:17] Speaker 1: And she just reaches over to him and says, oh my baby, he bit off a big thing, you know? And it's that kind of look, but it kind of frames, it's like the center of the home and the center of the portrait. [00:23:32] Speaker 2: And they're in two different windows. Yeah. Upstairs. Yeah. And their hand is in one of the windows. Mm-hmm. I'm glad you brought her into this conversation. Mom. I loved your mom. Yeah. She was a beautiful woman. She was something else. And you brought her along for the journey in a very beautiful way. Mm-hmm. I remember on the morning of the inauguration and so many people were coming wearing pictures, literally pictures pinned to their coat. Mm-hmm. Bringing someone along. Holding pictures in plastic baggies. Yeah. You know, bringing them there for inauguration day. Bringing people along who couldn't make it all the way for the journey. That is what you did. Yeah. With that beautiful skirt that you wore. With a beautiful image of a young Marianne Robinson. [00:24:22] Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. What a way to honor your mom. Well, everybody in our lives was touched by mom. It broke Barack down because I, you know, he didn't, he hadn't seen the skirt. You had to cover for him for a while. [00:24:39] Speaker 2: I know, right? [00:24:40] Speaker 1: Right? I mean, you kept talking because you gave him a moment. [00:24:43] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. [00:24:44] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. When I walked in, I met him backstage and he was like, "Ugh!" And I forgot what I was doing. I was like, "What's going on?" He was like, "You're not doing that to me, right? You just show up in this beautiful skirt." I had already sort of recovered. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "Oh, I'm sorry." You know, it was like, "My bad." I had gotten sort of emotionally accustomed to the beauty of it. Mm-hmm. Right? So to me, it was just a beautiful dress too. Beautiful skirt. So yeah, I kind of did him wrong. Mm-hmm. I should have prepped him for it, but it was also a beautiful surprise. My brother was, I think he was in the audience. Had he seen it before? Had Craig seen it? Nobody had seen it. Oh, it must have got to him too. Yeah, it got to everybody. But as you said, it's, you know, I was so glad to have her there with us. And then my team, while we were speaking on stage, they said that the minute Barak mentioned the skirt, it downpoured. Like it was clear because afterwards they said, "Oh, it rained so hard." I was like, "I didn't hear the rain." They said it rained right when Barak was talking about the skirt and it stopped. The ancestors. She was there. She's like, "Go on, girl." She's like, "Aren't you something? You know what mom would say." She'd be like, "Oh, I can't believe this. Oh, you're just something else." So she's here, you know, as are all of our ancestors. And not just me and Barak, the stories of our upbringing, but you know, that's, I think that's what resonates and what will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors. And America will see itself. And I'm saying all of America, regardless of political party, regardless of whether you voted for us or like us or have nasty things to say about us or not or love us. You will walk through these halls and you will feel seen here. [00:26:56] Speaker 2: We saw something of your husband in that encounter also. It was a full circle moment because you reached out and grabbed his hand the way your mother had grabbed his. Of course you saw that. Yes, I did. I saw it. I noticed it. And we saw his emotions and he is someone who is free with his emotions. And you don't always see that. Okay, let me just spin backwards. You don't see it in a man. If I can get really granular, you often don't see it in a black man. [00:27:24] Speaker 1: Because you're not supposed to. They're not supposed to be emotional. [00:27:29] Speaker 2: And you don't see it in a president. [00:27:31] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:27:32] Speaker 2: But you do with him. Yeah. So what does it mean to have someone in leadership who is willing to show their emotions? And in this process, are we seeing another facet of him? [00:27:44] Speaker 1: Well, you know, we're in the, we're at a time when there's a lot of talk about what it means to be a man. You know, it's all out there. There's a lot of mansplain going on. And what you feel in those conversations is what we understand is that men, men struggle just as much as we do. And figuring out who they are and where to find place. And I've said this time and time again, I don't have sons. You do. I know a lot of my friends' sons. I love these young men. But we've done a great job in our lifetime of expanding the possibilities of what women and girls can be. We've worked hard to redefine that. And to say, you know, you can take home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, right? You can do it all. You can be a mom. You can have emotion. You can be tough. You can box. You can run. You can be strong. Right? You can be a musician. But during that time, we, I don't think we've done at an equal justice to opening the aperture for what our men and boys can be. There's still, we've talked about this. There's still a very narrow definition of what it means to be a man. And it's still, you've got to win. You've got to be tough. You've got to be strong. You've got to be strong. You've got to be strong. Don't let them see you hurt. You've got to, you know, you've got to make money, you know. You've got to dominate. You've got to dominate, all right? But men come in all shapes, sizes, and colors, too. Temperament, we're born with it, you know. It's not unique to us as the female species, you know. There are a lot of young men who are born to create, like my father, who was tough and boxed and all that before he got MS. There are young men who were born to nurture, to be teachers, to work with small children. There are young men who are wonderful child psychiatrists, you know, who can empathize and help people find their voice, right? But if all they're rewarded for is win, throw the ball, catch the ball, beat up, make money, wow, how sad it is for all the majority of men and boys who don't naturally fall into that, those narrow categories of what being a man is and how sad and lonely that must be for them. So I think having leaders that model more matter, you know. And I know that Barack understands that. He's a tough guy. He doesn't cry much. But I think he has learned to let his emotions go because he knows he needs to show young men that that's okay, too. It's okay to love your wife forever. It's okay not to cheat and lie. It's okay not to be a baller. It's okay to, you know, be sad when sad things happen, you know, and not have to suck it up all the time. Yeah. That that's really what makes you a man, is the broadness and depth of your character. And it's not just one note. And how will boys know that if they don't see it? [00:31:20] Speaker 2: We'll be right back. The world got to know Marian Robinson, but they didn't get to know Frasier Robinson. And when I was going through, I've been through the building several times now. And one of the things that got me was the picture, the painting that he did, which is in a case with one of your favorite albums, Talking Book. Yeah. And a picture of your mom and dad. He was an incredible artist. [00:31:45] Speaker 1: He was. And actually, I hadn't seen a painting of his. You'd never seen that? I'd never seen that painting or if I had, I was young and didn't realize that that was dad's. I knew my father to be a sculptor. Because when he got into a mode of wanting to do art, he was usually working with clay. I think that was his favorite medium. And then he would do all the backdrops for our operetta workshops at the church, Woodlawn AME Church that my Aunt Robbie did. And this was the church plays, right, where Craig was Hansel and another little girl was Gretel and I was a little fairy. My dad did the scenery, the backdrops of the castle and the forest and the woods. And I remember him with big canvases painting. But I knew my father was an artist, but he got a scholarship to the Chicago Art Institute because he was very creative even in high school. And so he got noticed from what I remember the stories being. And he went, but he couldn't afford to stay. He didn't have the money. And I think my parents got married and he needed to get to work and earn an income. But I think my mom, whether she got this right, I got an opportunity to meet Richard Hunt, who has passed a renowned artist here in Chicago who works in steel. [00:33:14] Speaker 3: The sculpture right outside. [00:33:15] Speaker 1: Right. He created the sculpture in the reading garden right outside and has since passed. But before he passed, I was able to visit his studio and he gave me a little maquette of the sculpture. And when I mentioned that to mom, she said, I think your dad went to school with somebody named Richard. Yeah, I think that I think that was the other black guy. Now, I don't know whether that's true or not. I didn't even mention it to Richard at the time. And I don't know whether there's any documentation of him being there or when he was there. But, you know, my father was a gifted artist, but he just didn't get to actualize it because he had to work. You know, he had to earn a living. Is there a message about hidden talent in that? For sure. You know, this is gosh, this is what we can't forget about places like our community. You know, talent is it's it's it's planted in the soil here and it's everywhere all over the world. Hidden talent, the the the the genius that will unlock some of the most important secrets of the world. Being born in sub-Saharan Africa, you just you don't know where it is, which is why we have to nourish it everywhere. Because my dad didn't get to really exercise his gift. I'm so glad it's in a museum. Right. Along with his sculpture tools. But it says everything about hidden talent and and what what we lose when we only invest in a limited few. You know, talent and genius is spread equally throughout humanity. It's true. And that's why we have to value education and investment, because we're going to miss a child that was born with the intellect to do great things. But we're going to miss it because they were black or because they were poor, because they were an immigrant or because they were raised on a small farm. You know, and and they they didn't even know, couldn't even have the the idea that what was mulling around in their brains was actually greatness because they had never seen it. [00:35:38] Speaker 2: It's important for us to remember. Yeah. That talent is equally distributed. Opportunity is not. That's right. [00:35:45] Speaker 1: But we have to believe that. And there are those that don't believe it. There are those that think that talent is based on race, the color of skin, the, you know, the ancestry. That's ridiculous. It's not true. [00:36:01] Speaker 2: Maybe someone will see that painting and think, I'm going to go home and pick up a brush. I hope so. I'm going to go home and pick up a pen. I'm going to pick up a pencil and start to sketch. [00:36:09] Speaker 1: But we're trying to create spaces for that. So that's the other part of the OPC that I know you've highlighted. The media suite and the programming that will give kids access to this and bringing in the artist and telling the story of the creation of pieces. That's just as much for young people to understand how these artists think, what it means to create something, how these pieces came to be. There's a lot of abstract art. I know that there'll be kids out there who don't even know that you can make art using, you know, tar paper and scraps and that you can turn nothing into something amazing. That's why the art is important, because I know it's going to inspire some kid like my dad, who now doesn't have to go down to the Art Institute to see his future right before him. That's important. [00:37:09] Speaker 3: More of our interview with Michelle Obama next. [00:37:17] Speaker 2: We're sitting in the library. Mm-hmm. I was a library kid. Loved spending time in the library. Of course you were. And there are probably a lot of kids who will come to the library who weren't thinking about people who will come to the library. Yeah. But to pick a book up at the Obama Presidential Center branch of the Chicago Public Library, are you at all concerned that people might just want to keep those books? [00:37:41] Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. But I think, look, people are people. You have to remind people, make sure if you're checking the books, you better return them. You know, all of it is, you know, this, the wonderful experiment of public spaces are that trust and personal responsibility are a part of it. Okay. Right? And we're going to be practicing that here at the Obama Presidential Center. [00:38:04] Speaker 2: Do you have a message for people? Return the library books? [00:38:06] Speaker 1: Return the books. You know, put stuff back, take care of it. Because that's some of the things they think about us, right? Mm-hmm. That we won't take care of nice stuff, you know? That's what they say, you know? We're not going to put that nice thing in that neighborhood, you know? But I know differently, you know? I know this community, and this will only be what the community makes it. It will be as nice and stay as nice as the community, you know, decides to protect it. So that means that everybody's going to have to self-monitor. There will be systems in place. Look, there are locks on doors and things like that. There will be a, you know, there's a librarian sitting at the door. I'm sure there's some buzzer system. It's still, it's a president, y'all. You know, security is a thing, right? Right. But, you know, my message to my fellow Southsiders is like, let's show up, you know? Let's take care of this space. Because this is, it's a really nice space. And it, you know, the only way it stays nice is that we all take care of it. And I'm going to trust that my neighbors and all the visitors who come here will become the caretakers of this space. Because it's theirs. And I am completely confident that people will show up right in this space. They'll step up. They'll come correct. [00:39:30] Speaker 2: Yes, they will. Mm-hmm. I want to go back to the portrait of the two of you. Yeah. That image will be in this building for a very long time. Mm. 10 years from now. Mm. 25 years from now. 50 years from now. Into the next century. When people are looking back at the image of the two of you, what do you want them to see? What do you want them to remember? [00:39:54] Speaker 1: I want them to see a loving representation of a black couple. And it is important that race is there because we have an ebb and flow of how we feel about people of different races. Mm-hmm. Some decades we're moving forward and other decades it feels like, well, what happened? Um, I think we need to be reminded that excellence comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors, genders, um, that there are many people who are great leaders, um, and your race, your income is the least of what makes you great. Uh, your pedigree, uh, is the least of what makes you great. And the co-equanimity of our relationship I think is important to remember at a time when, you know, um, gender roles are, they go up and down too. Mm-hmm. You know, what does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean to be a wife or a husband? Um, that they see a couple that are, that, that revel in the fact that we are both equals, that that's what gives us energy, um, and that there's love there, deep, deep love. Um, and I like the notion that even that story is, is a, uh, it's a creation of many smaller stories that we didn't get where we are alone. Like there are two people, but there are millions of people who make up that story. So I think the, you know, the, the structure of the photo, um, of the portrait is just as important as the image that it's the two of us. That the two of us are made up of millions and millions of stories and people and experiences outside of who we are. [00:42:12] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And you're in the foreground. You're together there. Yeah. It's not, you know, what is often, you're not in the background. Yeah. You're right there together. [00:42:22] Speaker 1: Well, that's because I married a man who isn't threatened by, you know, having a, a, a smart, um, challenging partner. And that's also another way to be a man, you know, to lead, you know, to lead and co-lead all at the same time. Uh, and to be good with it because it, it gets you to a, become a better person. So that's a testament to, um, the way my husband was raised and how he sees the world, but he is not unique. There are men like that all over the place. Um, I happened to marry one of them and I am grateful for it. [00:43:03] Speaker 2: And we are grateful for that also. I'm so glad you've been with us for Hope Comes Home, the Michelle Obama interview. If you want to learn more about the Obama Presidential Center and get an exclusive look at the museum and the grounds, you will want to see our two hour special program and you can find it online at ms.now/hopecomeshome. And I'll repeat that for you one more time, ms.now/hopecomeshome. [00:43:48] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.