EXCLUSIVE: Barack Obama in his own words — MS NOW FULL INTERVIEW

[0:02] the success of this experiment was never a given at a moment when american democracy can feel [0:08] fragile we are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights a celebration of [0:14] civic engagement on the south side of chicago hey people good to see you the obama presidential [0:21] center is finally open and the man it is named for is ready to talk i am no different than you [0:28] in you i see the same talent the same possibility and i want you to see it too his record his dreams [0:36] the state of our country now welcome to hope comes home the president obama interview hello there i'm [0:45] michelle norris we're glad you're here for this hour of hope comes home the president obama interview [0:51] the obama presidential center opened on june 19th juneteenth on the south side of chicago the obamas [0:58] wanted this place to be a very different experience from any other presidential library [1:03] that came before it and it is we designed the center not not to be some lifeless mausoleum [1:10] i am too young for that we wanted it to be a vibrant living celebration of community where we can learn [1:19] together and share the joys of art and music and sport and play because it's in those moments that [1:30] we're reminded of our common humanity already in the early days of its opening we're seeing the [1:38] effect this place has on the people who come here the first thing you notice is joy the kind of [1:43] happiness that can be contagious it's evident in the visitors and the employees and the way so many [1:49] people feel moved to let go and dance long lines to get in line dancing outside on the opening day the [1:57] first 100 visitors got a personal greeting from the former president and first lady a lucky group of [2:02] kids got an enthusiastic reading from one of president obama's favorite books and they showed [2:07] their terrible claws claws claws we had a chance to spend time with president obama in the days leading [2:16] up to the opening of the new presidential center it was a conversation that was personal candid and at [2:22] times emotional and that's not surprising given this pivotal moment for his legacy and for the country [2:29] i've watched this campus go from dream to reality from an interesting perch the obama foundation [2:35] assembled a storytelling council of historians scholars filmmakers and writers i was one of them [2:42] and as such was able to witness how the obama team thought about how to create a space that was [2:47] an incubator for leadership and civic life tonight we will hear from some of the men and women who [2:53] built this place from the ground up the people who poured the concrete planted the trees and put the [2:59] exhibits in place it's good stuff we're happy to have you with us so let's go i am so glad that we have [3:08] a chance to talk to you about this 10 years in the making yeah really almost 12 now right let me let me [3:18] think so you start thinking about this in your last year in office so that would be 2016 so that was 10 [3:30] years ago when you're starting to conceive of it um and that's when you start thinking about selecting [3:38] the site and um the architects and so forth when you started to think about it was it some people have [3:46] said it's almost oh and now i've got to do this it's almost like a burden did it feel like it didn't [3:50] feel like a burden but it felt like a distraction because at the time you're still working on [3:58] presidential stuff um so you delegate a bunch of decisions and say i'll worry about that later [4:06] um but look it's it's been a long journey you know you had covid in between which obviously threw off [4:13] schedules and uh budgets in all kinds of ways uh you know we literally started uh construction and then [4:25] suddenly covet hits uh you know that that changed things a lot we're not alone in that um and the [4:35] great thing about it though was i think there was a consistency of vision on what we were trying to [4:42] accomplish with the center that didn't vary much um michelle and i had a very clear sense that we wanted [4:54] this to be a place that would attract visitors from around the world that would you know record what [5:05] happened during uh my presidency but that more than anything was a vital alive dynamic place for [5:20] the south side of chicago and the city of chicago for for kids in the neighborhood that it was going [5:27] to be used um and that i think more than anything shaped how we thought about what this uh this thing [5:35] would end up being you know i think about kids in the neighborhood you met with a group of young black [5:40] men yeah um you were seated in a circle in room 208 of hyde park academy right across the street [5:46] right from the campus now and it was an extraordinary conversation you were very honest with them right [5:56] you talked about making the kind of boneheaded decisions that a lot of teenagers make right you [6:01] talked to them about experimenting with drugs and it was so unusual that one of the kids said wait are [6:06] you talking about yourself yeah and out of that meeting we know that the my brother's keeper initiative [6:14] was one of the things that grew out of that meeting because later that year you announced that right [6:17] but i wonder if that meeting has lived on inside you in other ways because it happened right across [6:23] the street from where you decided to build the campus did that animate how you thought about the [6:29] location the design the programming you know the the young people who live in an area that doesn't see [6:36] this kind of shine and attention well the location in part was determined by the fact that this is the [6:46] epicenter of my life in chicago right within a four or five mile radius of that site i first came to [6:58] chicago i got my first apartment there i met my wife there my children were born there my wife grew up there [7:05] we were our wedding reception was there i made my announcement for my first presidential uh or for [7:14] my first political campaign there uh i taught law school there so you know that was part of what made [7:24] that site so attractive to us um but as you say one of the things that i learned when i moved to chicago [7:34] and one of the things that michelle had firsthand experience with growing up in chicago was even [7:42] though the south side of chicago runs on the lakefront just like the north side of chicago does for a whole [7:49] bunch of historical reasons the parks the open spaces the the public facilities in those communities [7:59] were under-invested in relative to other neighborhoods in chicago and so for a long time i would [8:08] drive through lincoln park in the north side of chicago and you'd look around and there are [8:13] people playing volleyball and their tennis courts and their kiosks and there's programming and and [8:20] museums and and then jackson park which was just as beautiful was empty yeah and that sent a message [8:29] and when i was organizing and when i was serving as a state legislator i was always shocked when i when [8:41] you'd hear stories from kids who would say well i've actually never gone to the lakefront even though they [8:51] lived on the south side they lived in englewood but it's just it felt foreign to them much less going [8:59] to the art institute downtown that that did not feel like it belonged to them and so part of [9:11] me having those conversations and uh at hyde park academy the high school right across the street from [9:19] where the center is going to be is in those conversations i said i am no different than you [9:26] that that's the message i wanted to send to them i had some good breaks my environment was more forgiving [9:34] than yours but in you i see the same talent the same possibility and i want you to see it too and so [9:44] part of what i wanted the center to be is a physical manifestation of that message i want them to start [9:52] realizing yeah amazing art that that's part of my life that belongs to me the idea that you know i could [10:01] make my community better my world better and and and that's inside me i you know i want to see examples [10:09] of that and um and and so we've already had a few of those uh same high school kids come in to give us [10:19] a little bit of a focus group and uh they seemed like they're pretty comfortable they seem pretty happy [10:26] and and i'm hoping that that continues open door to them open door to them more of our interview with [10:32] president barack obama is coming up and when you and the first lady started thinking about this you [10:45] had no idea you know what would be going on in america you have to do a little bit of sort of crystal [10:49] ball thinking right as you're putting this together how did you make sure that as you were thinking [10:57] about the design and the exhibits and the message that you were able to meet the moment you know i i i [11:05] don't know that we were trying to prognosticate and say all right well here's where things are going [11:10] to be and so we want to make sure we do this or that the words that are wrapped around the top of [11:17] the the the speech from selma the anniversary is the anniversary of the selma speech you are america [11:25] unconstrained by habit and convention unencumbered by what is because you're ready to seize what ought to [11:34] be um i've often said that may not be my very best speech but it is most representative of what i believe [11:46] it captures my politics as well as anything and it's been pretty consistent this belief in [11:57] an american story that that begins with these amazing words this declaration that that we are [12:06] created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights and and but it was imperfect and then we [12:17] struggle to make that ideal real and that has always stood in opposition with a different idea of [12:24] america that is based on caste and privilege and excluding people and dominating people [12:33] and those two contrasting stories about america a lot of my speeches a lot of my politics has been [12:46] arguing this is the better story and so i i think it may seem as if right now the the story told at the [12:57] presidential center is a response to this particular moment but actually i i think it's a response to [13:08] what has always been there in america you know that it's that part of america that um that says black [13:22] people don't belong or that says that women need to be in their place and gay folks need to be in the [13:30] closet and poor people need to stop complaining because a handful of people are the ones who are [13:39] creating the wealth and and they deserve to keep it and we don't need to take care of the vulnerable and [13:46] and we don't need to make public investments in our kids that that story's always been there um and i [13:53] think sometimes we get confused in thinking that uh these two stories are uh are completely separate [14:08] they're intertwined right and which is why it's possible for me to be a great admirer of george [14:17] washington and also acknowledge he was a slave holder and and and that does not negate his greatness [14:26] it simply acknowledges that there's a profound deep flaw in you know these founding fathers who were also [14:35] geniuses and gave us these tools and which is true of all of us right that it's true of every president [14:41] it's that that we're this mixed bag we got contradictions and embody the country's [14:49] contradictions and and and and so um i i do think that what's striking is right now we've got a president [14:59] in the white house who seems to have embraced and embodied in a way we haven't seen in a very long [15:05] time this other story um and maybe that make your story more important i don't know if it makes it [15:17] more important but i i i i i am glad that we are planting a flag that we are hopefully creating a [15:27] repository a a um a vessel through which people can be reminded of this better story i now i think [15:35] ultimately you know a a museum uh a presidential center even one that is you know engaging in ongoing [15:47] work uh doesn't replace actual activism it doesn't uh you know the the best reminder of our best story [15:58] is what happened in your hometown in minneapolis a while back of neighbors looking after neighbors [16:04] the best reminder is you know when you see folks around the country who are looking out for each other [16:11] and fighting the good fight to you know make sure that people have health care make sure that you [16:19] you know opportunities is fairly shared um you know that maybe a way to think about the presidential [16:28] center and what what at least we tried to create is some touchstones um some some uh some markers some [16:39] tools for for people to just be reminded of oh yeah this is what our democracy is this this is who we are [16:47] the idea of these two stories is is interesting because america has been having an argument with [16:52] itself right we we say one thing in our founding documents um we do something quite different in [17:00] the way that we construct society right and the argument that you're talking about and the stories [17:06] that you're talking about you know um the exclusion of people of color the exclusion of black people [17:10] the exclusion of women the exclusion the chinese exclusion act you know these are things that we [17:15] know are true to the american story but they don't always appear in presidential libraries yeah [17:20] presidential libraries are usually shrines to a single man or a single administration men because all [17:25] of our presidents have been men so far you decided to travel a different path you decided to tell a [17:34] different story in a different way so that you lean into that sort of thorny terrain around the [17:39] founding contradictions right um what was the thought process that led you there and was there [17:43] anyone that pushed back and tried to say you know maybe we want to do this in a more traditional way [17:47] because that is unusual well yeah for for folks who come to visit the first thing they'll actually see is [17:57] in the museum is a copy of the declaration of independence and um and a pretty long description [18:08] and and displays of the struggle to realize uh that that ideal that's embodied in the declaration [18:20] but hopefully what they'll also see even when the exhibits are about my presidency that there were [18:26] people who disagreed with what i did that uh there was a lot of unfinished business in my presidency and [18:34] you talk about that yeah and that um and that there was something like the tea party that emerges [18:42] during my presidency and it's useful for people to understand where does that come from um and look [18:52] it's it's the obama presidential center it's the obama museum is is a tribute to my presidency [19:01] frankly i would probably have had even less of me maybe this is the academic in me that [19:07] is more interested in folks getting a sense of history more broadly and and my presidency is just [19:13] a chapter in that um this is like the civic uh teacher nerd in me um but but i do think it's important [19:25] to ground what uh happened during my presidency in this broader sweep of american history [19:34] and as i said before um you know this idea that you know on the right and and you see this in [19:50] in the trump administration this idea that any suggestion or criticism that america was anything [19:56] other than perfect uh is unpatriotic is a suggestion that you hate your country is a suggestion that you [20:02] hate your country now the flip side is among progressives sometimes there is this sense of well [20:09] uh the only the only true narrative of america is this one of oppression and and exclusion and and [20:21] i reject both those views i think it's complicated i as i said i think it's possible to celebrate the [20:28] founders and appreciate what they did as well as look objectively and critically at uh how their values [20:37] strayed very far from what uh they professed uh i think it's impossible to to say that uh there were [20:49] populists uh in in rural america and south the south and white america that really did believe in equality [20:58] and justice you know uh for white folks and and helped to make progress in giving more people opportunity [21:06] and not ignore the fact that that was to the exclusion of others and and that's the kind of [21:14] of complexity that i i hope people get a little bit of a sense of you want people to actually marinate [21:22] that when they visit your and and and the reason is this because i think when you understand the [21:32] complexities of america and the contradictions of america i don't think it makes you love it less i think it [21:38] makes you love it more and i think it also makes you more resilient because then during periods like [21:47] we're in right now um where for a lot of folks it's crazy and you feel despair and anger that perspective [21:57] allows you to then say okay we've gone through crazy periods like this before we've we've gone through [22:05] mean periods before um it fortifies you to say that yes this has been part of the journey that we've [22:13] been here before and then there's no reason to suggest that we can't get through this one either [22:18] we'll be right back top of the obama presidential center wrapping around the corner of the building [22:33] you can see it there are letters giant letters spelling out a portion of the speech president obama [22:39] delivered on the 50th anniversary of the march across the edmund pettus bridge in selma president [22:46] obama told us that he thinks it's not necessarily his best speech but it is the one that best represents [22:52] his political philosophy he believes the most powerful word in our democracy is we we the people we [23:04] shall overcome yes we can that word is owned by no one it belongs to everyone each letter in the text [23:15] from that speech on the building is five feet tall made of concrete hoisted into place by heavy machinery [23:23] and installed by some of the skilled trades men and women who built this place and the folks that built [23:28] this place they are a proud bunch before the center opened to the public i sat down with three members of [23:35] the construction group my name is moises rocha i'm a labor former for lakeside alliance i'm shelley ryan [23:43] i'm a general superintendent so i'm in charge of all the landscaping on the project i'm louis de [23:48] john a local tin carpenter i helped the ui america speech i helped cast it in concrete there's a portion [23:56] of president obama's speech at the 50th anniversary of the march on selma march across the bridge in selma [24:03] that is on the south and the west side of the building and it is a section of that speech and [24:09] you worked on the letters every single how big are those letters uh 54 inches by 45 inches we were given [24:16] a template every week we pulled pulled letters they gave us a letter uh list we leveled everything and [24:26] poured the concrete cast it you know demold it lifted it rigged it put it on a truck and set it out in the [24:32] parking lot every week was a scrabble game we need four s's we need four n's we need seven t's we need [24:38] so it was it was like that i'm proud of first black president and i'm from the south side and i got in [24:45] and got on and amazing amazing just seeing everything full circle just full circle just wow people who will [24:52] be watching this will see it all over the country all over the world and they will eventually make their [24:58] way here what is the the one thing that you want them to to see if they've met you now what should [25:03] they look for when they actually come here to see a little bit of you i got a few areas [25:10] i got stuck at the parking garage crane lost the boot you lost a boot i lost the boot [25:19] because when you dig down you got clay clay goes up to your to your foot you won't pull it you're not [25:26] pulling your foot wait your boot is still in the building yeah one of your boots is in the building [25:33] yeah i had to lean on top of the bucket and the bucket had to carry me out pull me out and that [25:39] boot left in there i'm glad you still have your foot oh no it's just the boot it's just [25:45] okay so your boot is you've got a you've got you've left a forever mark on this building yeah [25:50] so if you're parking in the parking garage you got you got i got there's a boot in the parking [25:55] garage it's mine did this project ask a lot of you it's it's a big project um it is unusual in [26:04] its architecture the letters the the shape of the building the kind of granite that was used [26:11] was it a difficult construction project yeah a lot of hours here a lot of time spent away from home [26:16] from friends and family um but it's you're gonna be able to come back here and um show everybody for [26:24] the rest of our lives um that we built this so yeah it did ask a lot the details are level of [26:29] detail i've never had before right so the learning opportunities they're incredible um and and yeah [26:36] i think that while it has been a lot of work and hard work and the long hours um i think a lot of us [26:41] feel that um it's worth it to be able to have this sort of feather in our cap an observation yeah the [26:50] construction crews here are very representative yeah you see people of color yep you see women [26:57] you see people who are older and people who are younger that seems to be a little bit unusual in [27:02] construction sites yeah absolutely so you were part of a program that made sure that people from the [27:07] community could be part of this project definitely and you called yourself a dinosaur apprentice carpentry [27:13] i joined i joined i got into the carpentry and got into the trades late in life so my focus is [27:18] different i got on this job and in my interview process the person the contractor in south bend [27:25] who was talking about the job what sold me was when he said most buildings are built to last 100 [27:32] years he said what you're about to work on it's going to be here as long as there's an america that [27:38] encapsulated time for me and i was like i'm about to get on this job and i'm gonna do it hope comes [27:45] home the president obama interview continues after this let me ask you about the neighborhood it's in [27:57] the south side on the south side on stony island right um a street that is too often in the news for [28:06] sometimes the wrong reasons right what does it mean to place this center in a place that doesn't [28:12] usually see this kind of investment well part of what we want to do is to recognize this is a big [28:22] investment and it can potentially help anchor and uh catalyze economic development and opportunities [28:34] for communities that oftentimes have been left behind now are you worried about displacement though [28:40] i mean b and b rates are going up rents are going up you know would you have a plan to monitor or [28:45] mitigate that the the kinds of things that can happen with gentrification well look this is always [28:52] going to be there's nobody's figured out this solution right perfectly which is hey these [28:59] communities are under invested in and they're poor and there aren't enough businesses and opportunities [29:04] and then people make investments in their businesses opportunities hey wait a minute rents are going up [29:09] and the tax base is going up and airbnb rates go up you there's no way to uh make massive investments [29:22] bring about you know a bunch of tourism dollars and uh you know create greater interest and and beautify [29:32] communities and not also see some values rise that's part of the purpose of it the question is always from [29:40] our perspective are we making sure that the people who are already there can get a piece of that rising [29:50] tide can can they um access those opportunities which is why you know in terms of employment at [29:59] the presidential center one of our biggest priorities was making sure that folks were able to [30:06] not just apply for jobs but actually get jobs and get trained for jobs the young people who are living [30:11] in that those communities are they going to be able to get internships and fellowships and we're exposing them [30:16] to the work that's being done and what opportunities they have as a consequence the vendors you know [30:24] the the cleaning crews the the contractors all those folks we've been very systematic about [30:32] working with community groups in those communities to and and saying to them you this is yours not just [30:41] ours and we want you to be a part of this and um i think there will over time uh be the kind of [30:55] community improvement that is not just bringing in people from the outside but also lifting up folks [31:03] from the inside that's our hope that's the hope okay i want to do a speed round okay um i want to pepper [31:09] you with a few questions that will allow us to go inside the museum itself okay i've heard that you've [31:15] tested every chair in the building i'm not sure i've tested every chair but i've tested a lot of [31:20] them it's i just have this image of you running around sitting in all the chairs i you know what [31:26] i'm a big believer in like stuff being comfortable uh because so much of the stuff inside is is beautifully [31:36] designed and meticulous and all this um my attitude was yeah but if if if a young mom with [31:47] three kids that she's been dragging around through this museum and her feet hurt and she's now sitting [31:53] down is it comfortable i i no matter how pretty it is can she is she getting a break or any of the [32:02] chairs replaced yes oh really okay i'm not gonna i'm not gonna say who but there were a couple where [32:08] i was like you know this looks great until you sit up okay yeah is there a hidden jewel in the museum [32:17] almost like an easter egg that you worry people will miss something that you're really proud of but [32:21] you're afraid that this is actually not a hidden jewel it is uh but people may miss it um there is an [32:30] uh an entire room a display that we're calling democracy 101 that's it that is is away from some of the [32:41] flashier kind of an oval offices in a corner and it just gives people sort of a primer on the constitution [32:52] and the first amendment and um i'm i'm i'm really proud of that i'm hoping people go through that [33:00] because i think uh i worked pretty closely with uh the the exhibit designers in in creating a space where [33:10] a lay person who's not you know studying this stuff all the time can just kind of go in [33:17] and get a sense of all right i i have a pretty good idea about what all these arguments are about [33:23] and and i'm hoping that especially kids but adults as well uh take that in because i think it's done [33:29] really well now that you've said it i think people are actually going to look for it what is the piece [33:34] of art that just knocks you out every time you see it i i mean i'm a little biased because he's a [33:41] friend of mine but mark bradford's piece uh that essentially is ascends from the bottom of the [33:52] museum tower about three four stories when you factor in how high each story is is is magnificent and [34:03] and it's um it it depicts chicago and um in fact the the very portion of chicago in which the [34:15] center is situated in an imaginative abstract way it's it's spectacular but but look all of the art [34:24] is is hard to beat that was an unfair question it was a very unfair question because now i'm starting [34:29] thinking about julie moreto's stained glass on the other side of the building um some of the pieces that [34:37] have just recently been put in uh i'm going to stop naming them because if i leave somebody out people [34:42] are going to feel it's very neglected it's actually probably smart diplomatic move uh there is a [34:48] restaurant on site yes named for tafari campbell yes uh wonderful yes i knew and and miss him dearly [34:56] wonderful person who was your personal chef for many years man could he cook he could i mean he was [35:03] special um and there is a restaurant that serves wonderful food what is your favorite dish at tafari's [35:09] kitchen i have to say it's actually the chili um i can't give tafari credit for this one because this [35:17] is based on my own chili recipe so i may be a little bit people like wait he cooks well not anymore [35:23] okay but there was a time and uh it's it's pretty good chili really with some cornbread with it okay [35:30] all right i give it two thumbs up okay what kind of beans do you use yeah uh you know what you're gonna [35:37] i'm gonna let you go ahead okay you have to traditionally i'm a i'm a kidney bean [35:41] guy but check it out see what you think i will do that favorite book in the new library [35:49] must be becoming smart answer what are you talking about of course of course critics have called the [36:00] affordable care act obamacare and it was meant to be a sort of derisive name and you embraced it [36:06] yeah i did that and so so they're calling this the main building the obama list will you embrace that [36:13] too absolutely that's fine i i uh you know i think that what i'm interested in is seeing how people [36:27] respond when they visit um i appreciate architecture enough to know that it'll be 20 years before we [36:40] have a sense of how the architecture fits into people's imaginations and how whether it lasts or not [36:51] but what you what you can know right away is the people enjoy being there right and if as it seems so [37:04] far they do if people feel excited by the space and inspired by the space and it's usable [37:16] and it's fun and kids are in the playground and folks who are going through the museum [37:26] are absorbing good energy and feel like you know what maybe i can go out there and do something too [37:37] and they get to the sky room they look around and and see a panorama of chicago [37:45] in their own neighborhood that they've never seen before um and community groups are having meetings [37:54] there and you know folks are using a recording studio to to film their own podcasts or make their [38:02] own videos and kids are sitting in that public library and reading and excited about reading if all that [38:09] stuff's happening then uh we will have uh achieved what we're trying to achieve more of our interview with [38:17] president barack obama after this brief break you've been through the campus many times what's the [38:28] exhibit that still gets you every single time i've talked about this uh right outside the oval office [38:37] we have a display of the a sampling of the 10 letters that i used to receive every uh every night [38:46] um you know i think we got something like 40 000 pieces of correspondence every day every day uh for [38:54] eight years during laws in the white house and there we had an entire letter correspondence office just [39:05] responding to the public's letters um and that office would select 10 representative letters for me to [39:16] read each day they'd put my folder at the top of my briefing book and i'd usually save those for [39:22] after i was finished with reading all the stuff i had to read um and i initiated that as as a way of [39:30] staying in touch with people um especially early on when we were going through so many difficult decisions [39:43] and so there's a display that has a sampling of those letters but um the exhibition team made this [39:50] wonderful short video this vignette of um of a few of those letters and um and whenever i watch those [40:04] because it's mother talking about you know mr president i'm struggling and it's a a vet you know [40:11] who's still trying to find his path after he's um uh no longer serving dear mr president sir i was injured [40:25] in afghanistan in 2011. it's a funny thing fear i wasn't afraid in afghanistan but i am horrified at [40:35] the thought of my future sir all my life i've tried to find what a good man is and be that man i am truly [40:47] lost thank you for your thoughtful letter and more importantly for your service and sacrifice i can [41:07] tell from your letter you are already a good man people are really raw in their emotions in some of these [41:14] letters partly because they don't expect the president's actually going to read it it's it's [41:18] almost like a uh a meditation for them a a way of getting stuff off their chest and um and so whenever [41:30] i watch that i i get kind of yeah i can see that you get i get choked up you're getting a little yeah so so [41:36] choked up now if if there's one exhibit that people should take the time right after the oval office [41:44] which everybody will go to just so they can take a picture of the apples and everything else that [41:50] might be in there sit in your chair sit in the chair just come around on the side and there'll be [41:58] those letters and there'll be a video uh that's looping and take the time to watch that because because [42:06] i think that as much as anything captures um what i always hoped the spirit of my presidency was [42:20] and the spirit of your presidency was a sense of generosity towards each other a sense of that [42:38] that everybody counts and everybody matters and that when we act on that basic presumption [42:48] when we extend grace to each other when when we're willing to fight for that idea without [42:59] um without sacrificing uh a recognition the humanity of those that we're fighting against [43:10] if we can manage that even if it's messy and not always perfect then then i think this country does [43:19] well and the world does better thank you so much for being here for hope comes home [43:25] the president obama interview if you want to learn more about the obama presidential center and [43:30] get an exclusive look at the museum and the grounds you will want to see our two-hour [43:35] special program and you can find it online at ms.now slash hope comes home i'm just going to repeat [43:42] that for you that's ms.now slash hope comes home take care and have a good night