‘EVERYTHING American people rejected’: Hegseth’s leadership IN PERIL — MS NOW Highlights

[0:00] When we say that Iran will not have a nuclear weapon, we actually mean it. [0:05] And we will do the hard work to ensure it under the leadership of President Trump. [0:11] You see, because regardless of how people feel about the war, [0:14] which I believe is a courageous and historic effort that will ensure Iran never gets a nuclear weapon, [0:20] we need to continue, as President Trump did in his first term, to rebuild our military. [0:29] Hi again, everyone. It's now five o'clock in New York. [0:31] Pete Hegseth may be the most glaring human encapsulation of everything the American people rejected on Tuesday. [0:38] Incompetent, insecure, vindictive, vain, and wholly enamored with his authority to wage an unpopular war in Iran [0:45] that has driven up the price of gas, fertilizer, diesel, and groceries. [0:50] Now, Hegseth's future, leading the Defense Department, is a little murky. [0:54] Republican Congressman Thomas Massey has promised to call for a vote to impeach Pete Hegseth [0:59] once Congress returns to Washington, D.C. next week. [1:03] The Wall Street Journal reports that there are, quote, [1:05] likely enough bipartisan votes for it to pass. [1:08] Massey, who seems determined to have this be his final act in Congress before his term is up, [1:13] offered up an interesting calculation earlier today, quote, [1:16] If Trump's going to replace appointees like Hegseth, he should do it while he can still get the replacements confirmed in the Senate. [1:23] Also, my Hegseth impeachment resolution is a much gentler version of what's coming when Dems control Congress. [1:30] They'll have hearings and trials. [1:33] Might Trump try to get rid of Hegseth before a vote is even put forward? [1:37] MSNOW's new reporting finds that might very well be the case, quote, [1:41] Trump has been asking allies what they think about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, [1:45] with some urging him to replace the Pentagon chief, according to two people familiar with those discussions. [1:51] One of those, an administration official says, quote, [1:53] There's a lot of people who want his scalp and they smell blood in the water. [1:57] They're pushing Trump. [1:58] Everyone knows Trump will want someone to blame. [2:01] Over at the Pentagon, tensions are also high. [2:03] Washington Post reports this, quote, [2:05] As the extent of Republican losses has become clearer, the mood in the Pentagon is one of uncertainty. [2:12] More than a half dozen officials and people familiar with the matter tell the Post. [2:16] One person familiar with internal discussions said the political situation at the Defense Department appears, quote, [2:22] very dynamic at the moment with knives out, [2:25] as administration officials make sense of what the political earthquake in Congress will mean. [2:30] Some question whether Pete Hegseth will seek to shift blame for the election failures. [2:34] Hegseth is Trump's potential political scapegoat for Tuesday's massive losses is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. [2:43] Our senior White House reporter, Vaughn Hilliard, is here. [2:45] He is bylined on that new reporting from MS Now. [2:47] Also joining us, military analyst and retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hurtling. [2:52] Vaughn, why don't you take us through what you're reporting? [2:55] Right, Nicole, along with Felicia Schwartz, our colleague, [2:58] we're reporting that there's conversations in which the president is gauging the temperature of about the future of Pete Hegseth. [3:04] And this comes, we should note, I mean, it was a year ago that at first I was actually making some calls. [3:09] Is it related to conversations around potentially trying to get Pete Hegseth interested in running for governor of Tennessee [3:14] in order to get him out of the Department of Defense? [3:17] If you go back to 2025, he was under deep scrutiny well before the actions of earlier this year [3:22] and the second military offensive against Iran. [3:25] Obviously, he declined to do that. [3:26] But now there's even conversations about a potential off-ramp. [3:29] If you're looking at Tennessee, Marsha Blackburn just became the governor, [3:32] meaning that there is a Senate appointment open in the state of Tennessee. [3:35] And this is where, for the president of the United States, he has been hand-in-hand in lockstep [3:39] with his defense secretary over the decision to move forward with the military offensive. [3:45] And the president was just in the Oval Office, we should note here in just the last few minutes, Nicole, [3:48] in which he was asked about Hegseth's future, and he said that he's done a fantastic job [3:52] and said that they have been effectively able to control Iran for the last seven months [3:57] and that he could leave whenever he so desired to, [4:00] and that they could already have put Iran into a position where it would take 25 years to reconstruct itself, [4:05] and they could make it even more difficult if they decide to move forward with more action [4:11] for Iran to be able to rebuild. [4:12] So I think the difficult part here for the president, Nicole, is that he has been in lockstep [4:17] with the military offensive strategy of this Pentagon secretary, [4:21] and Hegseth himself, this afternoon, after being at the White House earlier here today, [4:27] he posted a video that was about five minutes long suggesting that this talk about impeachment [4:31] is reminiscent of the first Trump term when they came after the president twice [4:35] and was trying to play that martyrdom position there, [4:38] and that the only reason they were coming after him is to take down individuals [4:42] now that they have Democratic control that are in opposition to the Donald Trump agenda. [4:47] Well, I mean, I guess the problem with that is Massey is leading the charge. [4:50] I mean, so what are they talking about? [4:55] The issue with Thomas Massey is that, in the words of Pete Hegseth, Nicole, [4:58] is that he called him a disgruntled Republican congressman that lost his bid for re-election, [5:03] and so he said that he's joined up with other Democrats here, [5:06] and I think that this is part of the reality that they're going to be facing here [5:09] is that a great many of those people, you know, Fitzpatrick, Brian Fitzpatrick, [5:14] as well as Thomas Massey, Mike Lawler, [5:16] some of the folks that have shown some sort of a willingness to separate themselves [5:19] from this White House here over the course of the last two years, [5:24] those folks are not going to be returning in 2027, [5:27] so the extent to which, you know, any sort of bipartisan effort is worthwhile come 2027, [5:32] I think that it's individuals like this that are only going to make the political argument [5:39] keen for Pete Hegseth at the same time. [5:42] Clearly, there was an electorate that wasn't too sympathetic to it over the course of the last weeks. [5:47] I mean, his political ambitions are so fascinating, [5:50] considering the people that went out to vote on Tuesday that changed the course of our country [5:55] and ended the MAGA movement, began the end of the MAGA movement. [6:01] 74 percent of them said that the war on Iran was a crucial factor or a large factor, [6:06] and 63 percent of them thought that the war was the wrong decision. [6:12] Here's Pete Hegseth's record. [6:14] By his own description, he drank in excess and promised Megyn Kelly he would stop [6:18] when he became Secretary of Defense. [6:20] He was investigated by Monterey County, California, for an alleged rape. [6:24] An alleged victim that took a rape kit went to the doctor. [6:27] It was investigated by police there. [6:29] He added a journalist from The Atlantic to a thread with details about operational strikes. [6:36] He carried out boat strikes that Democratic and Republican members of Congress described as, quote, war crimes. [6:43] He carried out an information blackout for the families of the men and women aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, [6:51] one of whom sought to harm himself. [6:55] There were, I think, eight attempted suicides. [6:57] The bases in the Middle East are in such disrepair. [7:01] The damage assessments are being leaked to multiple news outlets, and we still don't have a clear picture. [7:06] But families are not allowed to go back and retrieve their belongings while their loved ones are being deployed to other parts of the region and the world. [7:17] And at least some people inside the White House or the administration believe that Pete Hegseth lied to Donald Trump about munitions. [7:25] So that's the record. [7:27] General Hurtling, did I miss anything? [7:30] I would say there's a couple of things you did miss, Nicole. [7:33] And I'm going to say, first of all, that Pete Hegseth came into this job. [7:39] You know, no one goes into the secretary of defense's job completely prepared, but he came into it remarkably unqualified. [7:46] And it could be argued by some, and I would be one of them, more so than any other secretary of defense in our history. [7:53] But to make it even worse, he brought many others of the same milk into the job with him, to include his public relations folks, the people in his outer office, and the ones that have been attacking others. [8:04] He's been terrible at congressional hearings. [8:07] He's been, you know, I'll add hubris to one of his failures. [8:12] And then it's obvious that he refused to learn or attempt to grow in this job, all while also sowing distrust among those who were the professionals, the one in uniform who had a lot of experience and could have contributed to it and helped them. [8:27] But he reinforced that, even then, with a focus on culture issues, performative politics, forcing key figures to resign, some of the best and brightest that we have, sending out daily film clips of doing PT with the troops. [8:44] None of this is leadership. [8:46] And I think, you know, one of the things I'd comment on, something you said earlier, Nicole, about, you know, they're trying to put the blame on Hegseth for the debacle, which is around right now. [8:56] Unfortunately, I'd spread that blame out a little bit because he is an advisor to the president. [9:03] And when the president gives the execution orders, that's when he, the secretary of defense, translates it to the combatant commanders. [9:11] But it is the president on this. [9:14] And that may link back to why we've seen what we've just seen in the last couple of days with the pushback against some of the president's policies. [9:23] You know, we can blame Hegseth for this, but he's got a lot of people that should be blamed right alongside of him, not just the president, but all the members of Congress who voted for his appointment should have known better based on his background. [9:41] And the unqualifications, the lack of qualifications he had for the job from the very beginning. [9:49] I mean, if you look at the way that the vote has come in, it looks like voters did hold a lot of, I mean, I think Democrats have flipped more seats in this midterm than they ever have before. [9:59] So the Republicans who marched in lockstep with Trump on the war on Iran have paid a political price. [10:05] I want to ask you, though, General, to weigh in on Thomas Massey's point about doing this now as opposed to waiting until January. [10:13] I mean, there are also rampant reports of sort of the reign of terror that Hegseth is overseeing at the Pentagon, the multiple polygraphs over news stories that Hegseth doesn't like or that depict him as you describe him accurately. [10:26] And these are, you know, men and women who've given their lives to serving our country so that we can have the freedoms we have being polygraphed three, four times because Hegseth doesn't like how he comes out in the press. [10:41] I mean, just talk about the kind of investigations that are possible if Democrats have to do this work and Trump doesn't replace him ahead of January. [10:50] Well, you know, you're going to sow more seeds of distrust on a daily basis. [10:56] How many more four-star and three-star generals is he going to ask to retire, the ones who are the best and the brightest? [11:03] How much more are those retirements and the use of polygraphs going to affect the younger officers and NCOs in our force who are proclaiming to themselves what the hell is going on? [11:16] How do we deal with the kinds of things we've been taught to do in terms of proper and professional civil military relationships, which all military officers in any service are taught from the second lieutenant or ensign days forward? [11:31] How are they going to address those kind of issues when we see the kinds of things that are going on at the higher level of civilian leadership? [11:39] It is a cancer on not just the Pentagon, but the force. [11:45] And I got to tell you, Nicole, I've talked to a whole bunch of people, young and retired, those in the force and those not in the force anymore. [11:53] And they're saying that this has really had a devastating effect. [11:57] It hasn't broken the military, but it certainly continues to bend it. [12:01] And, you know, your comment should should should this be happening now? [12:07] No, it should have been happening a long time ago, because what we've seen in terms of Secretary Hegseth going before Congress and mocking members of a body that is supposed to authorize his money and oversee his actions is just it runs contrary to who we are as a government and what the secretary of defense and the defense department are supposed to be doing. [12:27] With leadership at the Pentagon on the line, let's bring an MSNL congressional reporter, Michael Schnell, MSNL political analyst and former undersecretary of state Rick Stengel, Democratic strategist Adam Jentleson. [12:40] He was chief of staff to senators Fetterman and Reid and MSNL Pentagon reporter Priya Schreeder. [12:45] It is good to see you all. How fast could this move? [12:47] Very fast. So remember, Alicia, this is not a new concept. [12:50] It was back in September, right before the House had broken for the midterm elections with Thomas Massey, went to the House floor and forced a vote on impeaching Pete Hegseth. [12:58] Now, the reason why we didn't see action on that was because Republicans had left town early. [13:03] Now, Speaker Johnson insisted the reason for curtailing Session was not for that resolution, but folks are going to think what they want to think. [13:11] Now, Thomas Massey is saying as Congress prepares to come back, this is happening. [13:15] In fact, he wrote on X that the question he's been receiving of is, are you going to bring this back up? [13:20] He says that if Hegseth is still the secretary of defense, yes, I will. [13:23] So Thomas Massey can go to the House floor as early as Monday. [13:27] And by the way, I'm told that the September resolution has lapped. [13:30] So he has to restart this process. [13:32] He can go to the floor as early as Monday, force a vote on this legislation. [13:35] And that's significant because leadership can't ignore it. [13:38] They're going to have a bevy of things they could do. [13:40] They can either put it on the floor and let the chips fall where they may, or they can have a motion to table it or a motion to refer it to committee. [13:47] Now, we still don't know what leadership is going to do, but I've been talking to sources. [13:50] And there is a chance that this passes through the House. [13:53] I was just talking to one lame duck Republican, someone who just lost re-election, who said, I said, are you going to support it? [14:00] He said, send back this emoji, maybe. [14:02] And I said, do you think this will pass? [14:04] And they said, I wouldn't be surprised. [14:05] So as Republicans are sort of looking for a scapegoat and picking up the pieces, this is a real possibility. [14:11] And one thing I will add, the way that Thomas Massey is sort of messaging this is saying, hey, guys, you may want to deal with this now compared to what Democrats are going to do when they have the gavel. [14:21] I'll read to you part of his statement on X. [14:22] He said, quote, my headset impeachment resolution is a much gentler version of what's coming when Dems control Congress. [14:28] They'll have hearings and trials, essentially saying, let's get it out of the way now before Democrats have the subpoena power and they start their investigation. [14:35] OK, so, Adam, there is the possibility that this plays out as Massey wants it to play out. [14:40] But if the Massey impeachment fails, should Democrats try again when they take over in January? [14:47] Yeah, absolutely. [14:48] I mean, the American people deserve answers to how we got into this war. [14:51] And clearly, Pete Hegseth was the leading voice pushing America to get involved in Iran with no exit plan. [14:58] And that is why we are bogged down. [15:00] And, you know, not only is this a geopolitical strategic disaster for the United States, [15:05] it is causing prices to go up on everything from gas to groceries. [15:09] So the American people were furious about the conduct of this war, among other issues. [15:13] But this was a leading one. [15:14] They elected Democrats to do something about it. [15:17] I think Democrats need to show that they're being responsive to affordability concerns and those things, too. [15:22] But that doesn't mean you can't have aggressive oversight of Pete Hegseth, [15:25] who has launched America into a war of choice where we have no business being and we're currently bogged down with no way out. [15:31] People deserve answers. [15:32] Especially when some of the affordability crisis is directly tied to that war. [15:37] Priya, the impeachment case Massey is making, not just about the Iran war. [15:41] Give us the broader context of what has been happening at the Pentagon during Hegseth's tenure. [15:46] Yeah, that's right, Alicia. [15:47] I think it's really interesting, these eight articles of impeachment that Representative Massey first introduced in the middle of September. [15:53] Only about three or four of them actually deal with the war in Iran. [15:56] One of them is about, obviously, the fact that this war was never congressionally authorized. [16:00] Another talks about the War Powers Resolution, which obviously says that if a military campaign exceeds 60 days, [16:07] that it either needs to end or get congressional approval. [16:11] Another one talks about how Secretary Hegseth didn't do enough to minimize civilian casualties when it came to this war. [16:18] But there's another four articles, Alicia, that have to do with retaliation against Senator Mark Kelly for putting out that social media video, [16:26] along with other lawmakers who all had either military veteran backgrounds or national security backgrounds, [16:32] telling current service members not to follow illegal orders. [16:35] There was another one about the capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro, [16:40] saying that there was no legal or constitutional authority to do that. [16:44] And another one about the extrajudicial killings when it came to those suspected drug traffickers on vessels in the eastern Pacific and the Caribbean. [16:52] So a number of issues here, even about the strikes on the Houthis in Yemen that weren't congressionally authorized. [16:59] I did ask the Pentagon for their reaction to all of this talk about impeachment. [17:04] And Chief Pentagon Spokesperson Sean Parnell sent me a statement that says, in part, [17:09] we will continue to drive President Trump's agenda at the Department of War, [17:12] despite threats of sham witch hunts from Democrats. [17:16] And Secretary Hegseth is 100 percent committed to leading the department until the end of President Trump's term in office. [17:23] So there you can see that at least publicly, Pentagon officials are not even acknowledging the fact that Secretary Hegseth could go anytime sooner than the next two years. [17:34] It was remarkable to me, Rick. [17:36] We're talking about my time in Texas. [17:37] I was talking to voters. [17:38] We're kind of all over the place, to be honest. [17:40] Like, voters don't show up at the polls and talk to you the way they show up in a poll where it seems like it's just about one issue. [17:45] The one thing I heard over and over again was about the Iran war. [17:49] The AP voter poll found 63 percent said the U.S. made the wrong decision in taking military action against Iran. [17:56] Just about three out of four voters said the Iran war was a crucial or major factor in their vote. [18:01] And yet this morning, this is what Trump said to ABC about Secretary Hegseth. [18:04] Quote, I get these calls, you know, about him. [18:06] I don't understand why. [18:09] I'm so glad you started with voters, voters in Texas and elsewhere, because people voted against something the other day. [18:18] They voted against Trumpism. [18:19] They voted against that war. [18:21] They didn't vote for something. [18:23] Democrats need to actually, once they're in power, start embracing legislation that does something for the voters. [18:30] So the voters say, hey, I'm glad I changed my vote and voted for these Democrats. [18:35] I would caution Democrats against a campaign of retribution or grievance mirroring the Trump administration. [18:41] And I would just say this. [18:43] I mean, I heard all the clauses of the impeachment indictment. [18:48] Does anybody actually think Pete Hegseth had any role in determining whether the U.S. was going to invade Iran or whether it was 100 percent Donald Trump? [18:58] Pete Hegseth is dancing around the boss trying to satisfy what he does. [19:03] He had about one percent of the influence that Bibi Netanyahu. [19:07] We could impeach Bibi Netanyahu. [19:10] That would be a good idea. [19:11] But I would just caution Democrats against doing stuff like this, because people will say, these guys are just the mirror image of the guys that we tossed out. [19:19] What are they doing for me? [19:21] You really think that? [19:22] I really do. [19:22] You don't think at a minimum his job is to be a backstop or a check? [19:28] The last time Congress declared war was 1942. [19:33] We used the authorization of military force during the Iraq war. [19:39] But Congress has been basically, you know, a kind of a dead letter act with both administrations. [19:45] So the fact that they're blaming him for not going to Congress and getting congressional authorization, it's like, well, no secretary of state really has been able to do that in 35 years. [19:54] So I just don't see him as an actual actor who actually influenced events. [20:00] And even if he did, would that rise to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors and treason and bribery, which are the standards of impeachment? [20:09] That's what I'm asking. [20:10] I think the question is how you get this war to a conclusion. [20:14] And to your point, that may not be it. [20:16] But you had Michigan Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed on Morning Joe. [20:19] He said ending the war is priority number one. [20:22] Let's watch. [20:22] So the first thing, the first three things we absolutely have to do immediately is end this war. [20:28] Right. [20:28] We need a war powers resolution that brings war making capacity back to Congress and forcing a conversation about this war being a disaster and moving us back to diplomacy. [20:36] Number two, ending this tariff regime and this war against Canada. [20:39] But number three, stopping the nuclear bomb that's about to go off in our health care system with these Medicaid cuts. [20:45] Adam, do you think there's a chance Senate Republicans join that effort and reclaim Congress's war powers? [20:52] Unlikely, but it's worth trying. [20:53] I think the American people would support Congress reclaiming its power. [20:57] It's obviously something that's not top of mind for voters, but they are concerned with the abuse of power from the Trump White House. [21:02] And so and they clearly voted Democrats in to be a check on his power. [21:07] There's no question about that, even if they're sort of unsure about what Democrats stand for. [21:11] And, you know, Democrats are going to need to prove that to them. [21:13] But the loud and clear message from voters was they want to check on Trump's abuse of power. [21:19] And this is one way to do that. [21:20] I really think, look, whether Hanks have how much input on the decision to have. [21:25] We need to know that we have. [21:26] He has put American soldiers in harm's way. [21:30] There are lives at stake. [21:31] There is American geopolitical strategy at stake. [21:34] There are prices at stake. [21:35] This is a massive issue that affects people's everyday lives. [21:38] So I think, you know, accountability here and getting the American people answers is part of what Democrats were voted in to do. [21:45] Priya, as we have been on air, we've got some new reporting from our colleagues, Felicia Schwartz and Vaughn Hilliard. [21:51] Apparently, the president has been asking allies about Hegseth. [21:55] We have two sources on that. [21:56] The president has been asking allies what they think about Defense Secretary Hegseth, [22:00] with some urging him to replace the Pentagon chief amid fallout from the Iran war. [22:05] They were granted anonymity to discuss White House deliberations. [22:07] There's a quote I want to read you, Priya. [22:09] There's a lot of people who want his scalp and they smell blood in the water. [22:14] They're pushing Trump. [22:15] Everyone knows Trump will want someone to blame. [22:19] NBC News reported earlier he has told some of his allies he is considering replacing Hegseth. [22:24] Have you heard anything about the names, even just the type of name that would be considered here as a replacement? [22:30] Yeah, I mean, one of the names that I'm hearing floating around is Senator Joni Ernst, who, of course, has a military background herself. [22:39] We're also hearing potentially Mike Waltz, Mike Pompeo. [22:43] So, yeah, I mean, I think that President Trump has acknowledged in interviews following the midterm election results that he believes the reason that the Republicans lost is because of the war. [22:54] He says he has no regrets, by the way. [22:56] He said that Americans simply couldn't handle the sort of short term consequences of the war when it came to higher gas prices. [23:02] And then we also know about Vice President J.D. Vance's post on X, where he said, also, listen, I agree with the president. [23:09] The reason we won is the war. [23:11] So if you take those two things into account, I think it's not surprising. [23:14] And exactly what Michael pointed out there, which is that perhaps it would be easier to get a new secretary of defense confirmed before the new Congress is sworn in on January. [23:25] And by the way, Alicia, the president was also asked about the rumors swirling around about potentially Hegseth filling in Marsha Blackburn's Senate, open Senate seat in Tennessee, his home state, now that she won the gubernatorial race there. [23:40] So I think President Trump is clearly considering his options as a result of all of that. [23:45] And now we're hearing that conversations are occurring where they're actually floating names. [23:50] Good to be with you. [23:52] I'm Katie Tur. [23:52] How do you explain losing seven Senate seats, if not eight or nine, when all is said and done? [23:58] How do you explain losing nearly all the seats you gerrymandered and at least 30 flipped House seats in total, at least? [24:06] How do you explain losing the national popular vote in the House, but by what could end up being a 13-point margin, a margin so big the last time we saw that was 1974 after Watergate? [24:19] And how do you explain it when you have subjugated yourself and your party to the whims of one man? [24:27] How do you explain it? [24:28] If you're a Republican under Donald Trump today, you explain it by trying to blame everything but the man himself. [24:37] If we as a country did not go into the war in Iran and that was not on the agenda tonight, is this a much different race tonight? [24:49] I think 100 percent. [24:50] I don't think there's any doubt about it. [24:52] The Iranian war, I think, is ultimately the main reason why we failed yesterday in a catastrophic fashion. [24:59] The first lesson is don't run terrible candidates. [25:02] Republicans broadly, I think, across the country, in Washington and at the state level, they got a little bit arrogant and full of themselves. [25:09] They forgot to do the most important thing in politics, put the people first. [25:13] The top issue, cost of living, is very real. [25:18] Too many in politics dismissed it. [25:21] They didn't understand. [25:21] We have strong economy, but when people are filling up their gas tank and they see $4, $5, $6 a gallon in some states at the pump, that's very disheartening. [25:31] And I think that played out at the polls today. [25:33] Well, that is a whole lot of finger pointing without actually pointing at the man who made all those decisions. [25:40] He started the war in Iran. [25:42] He ignored voters' concerns about affordability. [25:45] He chose crappy candidates. [25:46] But there is another major factor that these Republicans are choosing to ignore, not just the president going too far on immigration or embracing data centers, despite a public outcry, and that is corruption. [25:59] Corruption was the number one problem voters identified in the MS Now voter poll. [26:06] Above the cost of living, above the war with Iran. [26:09] Voters saw the suspicious stock trades, the Qatari jet, the taxpayer-funded Trump ads, the billions of dollars Trump and his family has made since returning to the White House. [26:22] And they did not like it, which leaves the issue wide open for Democrats to seize. [26:28] Joining us, New York Times chief White House correspondent and MS Now contributor Peter Baker, contributing writer at The Atlantic, who has served in Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush's, and George W. Bush's administration, Peter Wehner, and senior advisor for the Lincoln Project and Mitt Romney's chief strategist for his 2012 presidential campaign, Stuart Stevens. [26:50] This cough is going to get me, despite my best attempts. [26:54] Peter, why not blame Trump? [26:57] Well, they get around to that soon enough. [27:01] It's in the immediate aftermath. [27:03] But, you know, there's the devotion that they've had, the cult-like devotion they've had over the last 10 years takes time to break. [27:10] But you made exactly the right point. [27:13] I mean, these things that people are complaining about, whether they wore or gas prices or corruption, didn't happen because of the stars. [27:21] It happened because of one man, primarily, Donald J. Trump. [27:24] And as the Republicans who are scurrying away from the administration and the policies figure out that ultimately he's the cause of it and people understand him to be the cause of it, I think some of that fire is going to be aimed at him. [27:38] It should be. [27:39] He's done enormous damage to everything he touches. [27:42] And now that includes very much the Republican Party. [27:44] Peter Baker, is he still so in control of the Republican Party that lawmakers are afraid of him? [27:52] Well, look, they are still afraid of him, or at least they're wary of crossing him because they understand that even though the Republicans lost in a big way on Tuesday, he's still around for two years. [28:02] And he's got a lot of power, and he's demonstrated that he is not afraid to use power to punish those who anger him and that there are going to be primary elections in the next cycle that he may or may not decide to use to launch candidates who go after people that he doesn't like. [28:22] So, yes, there's still a deference to him at some level. [28:25] But I think everybody understands what we're talking about. [28:27] I think everybody understands when they say that the Iran War was a problem for them, that the cost of living was a problem for them, that that was Donald Trump. [28:33] They may not be saying it out loud because they don't want to tempt the gods by using his name, but that's what they're saying. [28:38] And they're looking for a way to begin moving the party beyond Trump. [28:41] It's the search for a new Republican Party, a post-Trump Republican Party that harnesses the populist energy that he did bring to it without a lot of the drawbacks that we saw this week. [28:52] It's like Voldemort. [28:54] Don't say his name. [28:56] He's going to come after you. [28:57] So he'll find you. [28:59] Stu, corruption was, again, the top issue for our voter poll here at MS Now. [29:05] The just the unbelievable, unbelievable graft and grift of this administration. [29:11] Do you expect to see Republicans talking about that? [29:14] I don't think we're going to see that. [29:16] You know, corruption is kind of another word for fairness as well, because everybody is having a very hard time out there and they see Donald Trump just raking it in. [29:23] And, you know, but it's a golden era. [29:25] I mean, never had an administration in a party so out of touch with where the people were. [29:30] And look, I can say this, you know, to the Republican Party I worked here for a long time. [29:34] You're not going to try to fix this until you address Donald Trump. [29:37] Yeah. [29:37] Until the party will assert that Donald Trump lost a free and fair election in 2020, you're not going to have a party that has any room for growth because who are you going to attract that is willing to humiliate themselves like that? [29:49] Are Democrats, do they need to take it seriously? [29:51] Because when we talk about government corruption, there will be some voters who are saying that this is both parties. [29:56] It's not just Donald Trump. [29:57] He may be doing it to the X degree, but they believe that lawmakers across Congress aren't, you know, don't have their best interests at heart. [30:05] They'll point to the stock trading, for instance. [30:08] Yeah, they should ban all stock trading for everybody. [30:11] It's absurd that you go to Washington and be able to trade stocks. [30:14] That should be a bipartisan issue. [30:16] I think the fastest way to restore faith in the system is to hold those inside the Trump administration for the criminality and corruption accountable. [30:24] And I think this is going to also take the participation of state attorney generals because Trump is going to pardon everybody on a federal level. [30:31] But we have models for that, like look at the tobacco tort where they put together state attorney generals in a unified effort. [30:39] And I think they need to get right at this big stuff. [30:42] They can't be about restoring. [30:44] It has to be about complete reform. [30:46] Peter Wiener, you talk today in The Atlantic about Christianity coming back into democratic politics. [30:52] And you're hoping that this is going to usher in a new era of goodness, of, you know, protecting each other and being decent, ushering out the Trump era. [31:03] Is this a part of it, going after corruption, cleaning up government? [31:09] I do think it's part of it. [31:11] I think part of it, too, is just sensibility and disposition, kind of the orientation of the heart. [31:18] And the two Democrats that were so important that I focused on in the essay, Jim, Tallarico in Texas and Adam Hamilton in Kansas, ran a campaign of real decency. [31:29] I mean, they were in many ways, I'd say, the antithetical approach to Donald Trump. [31:34] And they're both men of deep faith. [31:36] I mean, it's pretty clear that it's central to their life. [31:39] And I think it's good for the Democratic Party to have people of the Christian faith there at the table and in the caucus. [31:48] And I'm glad that they're in red states. [31:50] So I think that can temper some of the more extreme places that some candidates and politicians can go. [31:56] But the other thing, and I actually think as a person of the Christian faith, more important is I think it was an important moment for the evangelical movement, [32:03] which I think has done so much to slander the name of Jesus by those who most loudly proclaim it. [32:11] And I think what this showed is it moved the evangelical movement away, including, I hope, from its allegiance to one party. [32:19] It's just tremendous harm has been has been done by the way that people of faith have tried to carry out their faith in public life. [32:26] Tallarico and Hamilton have shown a different way, and I think it's a better way. [32:30] So what happens if the Democrats are able to gain some ground there, gain some trust with Christian evangelical voters? [32:38] Well, I think it'll help them in states. [32:40] It's just an empirical fact that the Democratic Party has become more secular over the over the last several decades. [32:46] There's too many people of faith, including the Christian faith, to sort of write them off or to have a stance that's wary of or even in some cases hostile to them. [32:55] And so, you know, to use to use probably an overused phrase, the big tent, I think it'll help Democrats to you to have those voices. [33:04] Now, anytime you have a coalition, you can have differences, including on on the issues. [33:09] But I think you just begin to speak the language and listen well to people who have different views. [33:14] And I think some of that ice that's that's built up can begin to thaw. [33:18] And I think that that, as I said, would be good for the Democratic Party, for the country and for for the Christian faith. [33:23] What do you think of that, Stu? [33:25] Oh, I think he's absolutely right. [33:26] And by the way, you know, if the Republican Party had stayed true like Pete Wehner did, the Republican Party would be a large governing party now. [33:34] I mean, he's a perfect example of you didn't have to go along with Trump. [33:38] And, you know, it's there's still free will in this country. [33:43] None of these Republican office holders had to do this. [33:46] And now when you look at how they do not party without room for a Cheney. [33:50] I mean, how do you build a party like that? [33:53] And I think as long as you have a test, a purity test that you have to assert what fifth graders know not to be true, that Donald Trump won the 2020 election. [34:03] Who's going to be attracted to that party? [34:05] You know, it's like trying to build NASA, but you have to refute Copernicus. [34:09] I mean, you're not going to get to the moon. [34:11] I can tell you that. [34:13] And it's it's I don't know when that's going to happen. [34:16] It's not going to happen in 28, maybe in 32. [34:18] All right. Let's talk a little bit more about the blame game. [34:21] If the administration is looking for somebody to blame, there are whispers right now that Pete Hegseth might be that guy. [34:28] MS Now is reporting Peter Baker that Donald Trump has been asking around among allies about Hegseth. [34:34] But this morning he said that Hegseth is fine. [34:38] Where do things stand? [34:40] Yeah, this is what he does when he's thinking about getting rid of somebody. [34:43] Right. The sort of the telephone pole he conducts in effect. [34:46] What do you think of Pete? What should I do about Pete? [34:49] You know, his hand may be forced. [34:50] Right. Tom Massey, the Republican congressman, not a fan of President Trump's, has put forward an impeachment resolution in the House to impeach Pete Hegseth as a secretary of defense. [35:00] My understanding is the way the rules work in the House, he may be able to force a vote. [35:04] If that's the case, that's a really interesting scenario, because while it's still a Republican House during this lame duck period, there are quite a number of Republicans aren't that happy with Pete Hegseth either. [35:13] And it's very possible you could get a majority, a bipartisan majority in the House before the end of the year. [35:20] Now, that doesn't mean there would be a Senate trial and he would be convicted. [35:22] But we certainly put pressure on Hegseth whether to step down or pressure on the president to decide to move him on, especially if a number of Republicans go along with that. [35:32] So we'll have to see how that plays out. [35:33] I want to bring in Ty Cobb, who's worked at DOJ, of course, and is a former Trump White House attorney, where he handled a version of one investigation, although we've never seen anything quite like this. [35:43] Ty, on the corruption, how does this work and does it matter? [35:48] Does it help regular Americans if there is accountability for corruption and they can turn the government's focus back to the people instead of self-dealing? [35:56] Absolutely. And it's important that this not be seen in the same context that Trump's revenge prosecutions are seen. [36:05] Trump is pursuing Comey because he hates him and Comey, to Trump's way of thinking, did him wrong. [36:16] Same thing with the others, Letitia James and anybody who's been opposing him in the past. [36:23] That's not what they're talking about investigating. [36:25] They're looking at how did Trump make two point two billion dollars and and how did his sons acquire a drone company, followed by Trump, then putting tariffs on imported drones? [36:38] You know, the kinds of corruption that is just unthinkable in America, but is palpable now. [36:43] And the facts are there. So the facts are there to educate not only Congress in terms of whatever legislative priorities, but to educate the American people so that they can better understand the anxieties that are felt by these legislators. [36:58] Also, you know, you talk about Hegseth. It's fascinating. There's so many dynamics involved in the Hegseth issue. [37:06] One is everybody's recognized that he is incompetent, you know, and that never should have been gotten the job. [37:12] He only got the job because of Tom Tillis. Let's keep in mind. [37:15] And he was, you know, past fifty one fifty because Vance cast the deciding vote in terms of his confirmation. [37:23] But Hegseth is almost a scapegoat at this stage of the game because Trump has the fantasy that this loss, this huge loss by by the Republicans this week was only because of the war. [37:39] So he can target Hegseth, make him a scapegoat to try to fill that false narrative when we know that eighty eighty eight percent of the people who were asked on exit polls said corruption was a was a significant factor. [37:54] It isn't just the war. It's corruption, affordability, the price of diesel, you know, the damage to farmers from tariffs. [38:02] So the reality is they the Republicans have a narrative they would like to embrace, which is the war is the danger. [38:10] And that's why we lost. And Hegseth can fuel that. But in the in the in the brief period that that goes on, I don't think that they'll get away with it. [38:20] Well, and there's a constitutional piece of this, which is you generally don't remove cabinet officials through impeachment over policy. [38:28] Your point is, it's a certain level incompetence can become a reason incompetence and failure and talk about war is higher level. [38:38] That's possible. And then second, as you and I have discussed, there's a credible, serious question about whether Hegseth knowingly oversaw or encouraged war crimes. [38:51] And apparently that didn't really get dealt with fair. And apparently that couldn't get dealt with before Tuesday. [39:00] But now, as you say, some Republicans are looking at that, that once the new Congress is sworn in, they would definitely look at that if Hegseth is still in office. [39:07] This morning, the Republican Party is in ruins and maybe it needed to be. [39:14] They're going to have to learn how to win without daddy on the ballot. [39:18] The Joe Rogans and the Megyn Kellys and the Tucker Carlson's and others that have been out there dividing the MAGA movement. [39:24] A year and a half of trash talking Trump and Republicans and you lose Texas and you wonder why. [39:29] This was a spanking. The coalition's totally collapsed. I mean, you lost whites. [39:34] Whites. You can't do that if you're a Republican. Men, Hispanics, big time. [39:43] Those are the results and the way they were presented on Fox, a station the president famously watches. [39:48] His advisers knew this early on. Times had a lengthy expose reading from that. [39:54] They say just before the election, two dozen or so of the top aides gathered. [39:59] The mood was grim. Talk of cyanide. Do you want the white pill first or the black pill? [40:03] I think we have this quote from the article that was Tony, the chief pollster and others sort of doing the gallows humor. [40:12] That's what Trump's surrounded by. That's what he's hearing. [40:14] How do you view the lame duck two years? I think it's going to be very difficult. [40:19] You asked me before the break about my enthusiasm. I'm very happy for America because I think America woke up. [40:25] And we know that millions, certainly hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Republicans cast Democratic ballots to change the direction from a corrupt fascist president. [40:35] To try to get us back to the country that we once promised the world we would be inclusive and and and standing for peace and democracy and protecting those things around the world. [40:46] I think the lame duck session with Trump is very dangerous because it will make him increasingly unpredictable. [40:52] I think it'll be a case of whack a mole. You'll see him come up with weird things, you know, probably on a on a regular basis. [40:59] We know for we know for a fact that today they sent out to three thousand conservative outlets, you know, a a memo reminding them of all the great things that the president has allegedly done. [41:11] Basically, basically, as a warning to not criticize them the way that you heard on Fox News, you know, they're being asked to stay in line. [41:20] Don't don't don't criticize the president. Just keep pimping him. Talk about the great things he did. [41:25] You'll see a lot of him trying to get people, you know, to, you know, play to his power, play to his greatness. [41:32] But but but in the in the environment that we're about to go into with a lot of investigations and a lot of fact finding coming forward, you know, for the American people, that's going to be a very difficult sell. [41:42] And I think you're going to see Republicans more and more turning on the president. [41:46] I think you'll see, you know, for example, I read something just moments ago about Marco Rubio likely to leave because he has to become an outsider if he wants to fulfill his presidential ambitions. [41:57] I think you'll see a lot of people running out of this administration. Harmeet Dillon won't be the won't be the only one. [42:04] And thank God she was the first one because because she was a horror turning the civil rights division of the Justice Department, you know, from an institution that protected civil rights to one that attacked civil rights. [42:15] So I think we're going to see a lot of Republican defections. [42:18] I think we'll see Republicans start to stand up now that they realize that this Trump stuff doesn't sell, that Americans have repudiated and that they they want something better. [42:27] They want they want honor. They want character. And they and they want what they want some sign that they care about what people are experiencing in terms of affordability. [42:36] You know, higher wages, no more cages. I think that's I think that's the message. [42:40] Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. And as you say, a lot of that was Republicans who I'm talking about the regular people voters, not the elected officials who've been so spineless, who said, yeah, maybe they would in Kansas change a lot of what they normally do, as you just described, to send a message, to throw the throw them out, which, again, speaks to the thing I've told viewers this this week is we're not as divided as some would have us believe. [43:05] And we're not even always as partisan as some would have us believe. [43:08] We have a great lineup at the table to discuss New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg, former Democratic Congressman Max Rose, comedian Jason Selvig of The Good Liars, Boston Globe opinion writer Abdullah Fayed, plus our Pentagon reporter Priya Shrider in Washington. [43:24] You you have been clear from the beginning that your instinct on this was that Trump was going to fire Hegseth once this election was over. [43:32] Is that still your instinct? [43:33] Absolutely. And by the way, it now appears to be the instinct of the Republican Party. [43:38] They're not doing this massive PR campaign for Pete Hegseth because they're suddenly waking up to the fact that Democrats are opposed to them. [43:46] They're they're doing this right now because the Republican Party didn't just receive this massive political rout that we all witnessed. [43:54] But now they need someone. They need something to change. Right. [43:59] They lost because of the Iran war. They lost because of the disastrous decisions made by this department, the ways they focused on culture wars and made this the least lethal department of war in our lifetimes. [44:14] And they want change. That's why Pete Hegseth is making these videos. [44:18] We have never seen a leader of this department act so scared and so weak because there is the war, which is politically unpopular. [44:26] But there's also the extraditional killings that have happened under his leadership. [44:31] Right. Well, I mean, the video itself is evidence of why Pete Hegseth needs to be impeached. [44:35] Right. I mean, because he in addition to mismanaging the war, which is obviously the most crucial issue he has. [44:44] You see kind of reports of plunging morale, purged, you know, purged top ranks that have been purged of the most kind of confident, competent and effective leaders. [44:56] He has tried to make the military into an adjunct of a MAGA movement that itself is now in shambles. [45:06] And so, you know, and so and everything he does to kind of further politicize the military in his own defense is yet further evidence of why he has to go. [45:17] Right. That his idea of how you address that morale crisis is to put out a hype video like this. [45:23] Pete Hegseth, who has been unbelievable at what he's doing, is nobody better. [45:30] Nicholas Maduro had his chance. [45:34] He effed around and he found out. [45:38] Operation Epic Fury was a historic and overwhelming victory on the battlefield. [45:44] We are warriors. Stand, fight, defend the republic. [45:52] Here's the thing. I understand how that makes Pete Hegseth feel better about Pete Hegseth. [45:56] But who else does that appeal to? [45:58] Well, it doesn't appeal to Trump supporters. [46:00] I will say that just from going to the rally, even the most ardent Trump supporters, I would ask who they like in Trump's cabinet. [46:07] People would say Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance. [46:09] I'd ask who they wanted to run for president. [46:10] They would say Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance or Donald Trump. [46:13] One of the most shocking things I heard at a Trump rally this election cycle was somebody in Ohio. [46:20] I said, who would you want to run for president? [46:22] They said Pete Hegseth. [46:23] It's the only time I've heard his name uttered at a Trump rally. [46:26] He doesn't appeal to the Trump supporters. [46:29] And most of the people I've talked to said the biggest issue was gas and the war. [46:34] And he changed the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. [46:39] Donald Trump is going to scapegoat somebody. [46:41] He's going to fire somebody. [46:42] Pete Hegseth is definitely going to be number one on that list. [46:45] There's Trump supporters and then there are veterans. [46:47] Priya, you've been speaking with them throughout Hegseth's tenure. [46:50] Are they finally at a breaking point with him? [46:52] Yeah, absolutely, Alicia. [46:53] I've been talking to many over the course of the last several days and they say, listen, the things that Secretary Hegseth has done to the military over the course of the last two years are going to potentially take decades to reverse. [47:05] But they are really calling on Congress to impeach Secretary Hegseth, even if he somehow gets pressured into resigning or if President Trump eventually chooses to fire him because they want him to be held accountable. [47:20] They want hearings to occur to further look into how the Iran war was conducted. [47:26] And probably most importantly, they want him to be barred from ever holding federal office. [47:32] And I got a chance to speak to one of those senior military officers who was purged by Secretary Hegseth. [47:39] And this person told me many military leaders actually blame Congress as much as they blame Hegseth. [47:44] The government has failed the military. Impeaching Hegseth is the first step of restoring faith and confidence. [47:51] And so, Alicia, you know, I think if you look at who won these midterm elections, you see a record number of people of color, a record number of women, a record number of military veterans, a record number of female veterans. [48:04] These are all the groups that Secretary Hegseth has tried to target himself over the last two years. [48:10] And so I think he is a really a symbol of what Americans voted for and what they don't want to see continue for the next two years. [48:19] Max, I want you to pick up on something that Priya just reported out there was this idea that impeaching Hegseth is a first step to restoring confidence in the DOD itself. [48:27] Isn't it likely, though, that every replacement they put up follows in this ideology or do they actually get serious and choose a real leader? [48:35] Anything is possible. [48:36] And I think Pete Hegseth is in a class of his own to the extent to which he has made this about himself, firing all of these generals who were bringing and set to bring really excellence to the decision making table. [48:55] And what we've seen as a result is a juxtaposition of real operational excellence by the military. [49:01] No one's discounting that, but with strategic incompetence over and over again, making decisions where what they did is they said, what will make Donald Trump happy? [49:11] What will bolster his ego, not what will protect the troops? [49:16] And that's why we've seen our bases in the Middle East decimated. [49:20] That's why we're in this absolute quagmire. [49:22] That's why gas prices are skyrocketing. [49:24] And that is why the military is at its least lethal point than we've ever seen. [49:30] There's pursuing Hegseth as one mode of accountability. [49:33] You also have the New Republic reporting that the next Congress is going to vote to cut funding for the Iran war. [49:38] Congressman Adam Smith, poised to become the chair of the Armed Services Committee, says it has the support from party leadership that is notable and, quote, [49:45] I think it will be one of the first things we do, even if Trump is going to veto that. [49:50] It is still important that Democrats and maybe even some Republicans take that vote and send that message. [49:56] Absolutely. I think that was the message of the midterms, that this has gone on way too long, that this is too much. [50:01] And this is what people did not vote for in 2024. [50:04] This is against what Donald Trump himself promised voters. [50:07] And if Democrats actually want to deliver what they promised voters this cycle, that's what they would do, number one thing. [50:13] But I'd also want to point out that, you know, part of the reason Hegseth is in the middle of all this is the fact that under his leadership, [50:20] the Department of Justice has been the Department of Defense has been credibly accused of committing war crimes in the Caribbean Sea. [50:26] They they bombed a school in in Iran. [50:29] These are really serious crimes, you know, and they should be investigated. [50:34] And Pete Hegseth, his recklessness, I think, is really serious. [50:39] I mean, this is a guy who promised, quote unquote, maximum lethality, not tepid legality, complete, utter disregard for the laws of armed conflict, [50:48] complete, utter disregard for, you know, just general just rules of conduct. [50:53] And I think that's a really dangerous position for the United States to be in. [50:57] It's a dangerous position for Americans. It's a dangerous position for the rest of the world. [51:00] Yeah, there is a damage. And it is the thing, which is he could resign tomorrow. [51:04] He could be fired tomorrow. [51:05] So the Massey impeachment could go through the damage that he has wrought on the DOD and the damage that that means for America's on the world stage, [51:16] that will take twice his tenure, maybe more to repair. [51:20] I mean, I think that that's true of almost every department of our government. [51:23] Right. I mean, I think that's why you already have people start thinking about people who've maybe worked in kind of post-conflict [51:29] reconstruction or, you know, kind of authoritarian transitions are already starting to think about what it would mean to kind of reverse some of the damage that MAGA has wrought. [51:40] But with Pete Hegseth in particular, I think because he has because he is so internally despised and, you know, aside from a few lackeys that he's been able to install, [51:50] I think that if he is impeached or if there are hearings, you are just going to have people lining up to tell, you know, to kind of tell America what the view from the inside has looked like. [52:02] It was notable to me. I'm sure you all saw the reporting. [52:04] There was the floating of the possibility that he would be appointed to the seat in the U.S. Senate in Tennessee, that Marcia Blackburn is vacating. [52:12] Then we had this reporting from Jake Sherman, a punch bowl who reports from a source close to Blackburn. [52:17] Hegseth is not being considered. There is nothing more than Washington, D.C. spin. [52:22] D.C. won't pick the next senator. [52:26] Even Marcia Blackburn doesn't have his back. [52:27] No, and look, Pete Hegseth, he is a performer. That's why he's famous. That's why Donald Trump picked him. [52:33] Fox and Friends. He was watching him on Saturday mornings on Fox and Friends. [52:37] And where Pete Hegseth, I think, has failed is he's not authentic. [52:41] And I don't think he has a future in politics because when you watch these videos, he's performing. [52:47] And it almost feels like it's a middle school drama production of A Few Good Men when he's on stage. [52:53] He's there, like, strutting around, saying his lines. [52:56] And you almost feel a little uncomfortable for him because he's doing it for an audience of one, and that's Donald Trump. [53:02] Unfortunately, Donald Trump's going to blame somebody, and I think it's going to be him. [53:05] Do you agree? [53:07] Yeah. How could I disagree with this guy? [53:10] What do you think about his acting? [53:11] But the problem is, as well, is it's not just acting. [53:16] It's really a flawed and dangerous view of what the military should be. [53:22] It's a view of the military that any sense of free thinking, any intellect, and any willingness to stand up to the president with clear and independent military guidance is actually just a sign of weakness. [53:38] When that's, in fact, what the military is supposed to be, that's what has protected this country for so many generations, four-star generals willing to walk into the Oval Office and say, no, Mr. President, that's a bad idea. [53:52] And that's what they failed to do in the run-up to this war in Iran, and that's because of Pete Hegseth. [53:58] Right. And I think something, someone made the argument to me that they were like, Pete Hegseth, like, you know, like, that guy doesn't really have any power. [54:04] He's just carrying out orders. That's the entire job. The entire job is to say no. [54:09] The entire job is to protect the president against his worst instincts, and he has shown at every turn that he is unwilling to do that. [54:16] Yeah. I mean, it's totally pathetic. But like I said, I think it's just recklessness. [54:20] It's recklessness on behalf of the president who appointed him in the first place. [54:24] It's reckless on the Senate's part for confirming him. And it's reckless on Pete Hegseth's part, who just wants to play an act here. [54:31] And I think that's really dangerous for everybody. I mean, it's totally unserious. [54:35] It's a totally unserious way to run a country, unserious way to run the Defense Department, especially dangerous when the country is at war. [54:42] Hey, it's Rachel. I am so glad to see you at the end of that clip, because this is where I get to tell you about a new way to watch all our clips [54:49] and all of our shows and everything on MSNOW on your phone or your tablet or your laptop. [54:55] You can watch things live or recorded. Plus, you can ask me and all the other hosts and reporters questions [55:00] in our weekly live chats. You can go to ms.now slash membership or just click below. Thanks. [55:10] Thank you.