Democratic Newsroom — Delhi Air Pollution: Governance Failure Or Public Neglect? — India Today

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Good evening, you're watching Democratic Newsroom. Our band of editors are back with yet another topic to debate this evening. And this is right before Diwali and it's also a week where Delhi is witnessing some of the days with the worst air quality, not just Delhi. Multiple cities across the country are registering terrible AQI. To the effect, in Delhi, a match which was to take place between India and Sri Lanka in December has now been moved to Wysak. Abysmal, terrible, embarrassing, but will pollution ever rise from hashtags on social media and ever become a politically emotive issue? So, our politicians actually care a little bit about it. Let's open the debate. I have with me Pooja Shali, Gaurav Savant, Rajdeep Sargassai, Anisha Mathur and Akshita Nand Gopal. Rajdeep, let's go first. Want me to go first? Of course, always. [00:00:50] Rajdeep Sargassai: Okay, look, it's a year-long issue. Just rewind to Democratic Newsroom a year ago. You probably had the same arguments that you're making today. And the fact is that that kind of collective consciousness, the belief that this is a major issue doesn't exist. And there are various reasons responsible for it. But the worst thing I think we do is political blame game. I was shocked, for example, the other day, the Delhi's environment minister blames Punjab. I mean, you look at the numbers. Actually, the numbers show data of stubble fires in Punjab has gone down. Which is the number one state today in stubble fires? Madhya Pradesh. In every Indian state today, stubble burning is increasing. It's no longer a North Indian problem. Just travel across the country. Pollution now affects every Indian city. Which is why when you're flashing, Delhi's choke point. It's typical. You know, you'll sit in Delhi, sit in Noida. You're worried because it's happening in Delhi. It's happening across the country. But the right to breathe is not a fundamental right. The voter who demands better roads, wants free electricity, wants better quality of water, doesn't seem to demand better air. Why? Because possibly politics, in particular in this country, is transactional and transient. Abhi mujhe kya milega? Air emergency is something that's going to affect the next generation. It's going to affect generations ahead. So you don't think about it. It does not weigh down on you like livelihood issues of the day do. So there are a variety of factors. But the one thing I don't want, which is why I want to say happy Diwali to everyone. And I don't want this to become a raucous debate. Because the worst thing we can do with pollution is get into a political blame game. And say, aapne nahi kya, aapne stubble burning ko rukwaya nahi. Arey, the worst offenders are transportation, construction across the country. We don't want to look at, and we don't want to take the kind of tough measures that a battle against pollution will require. China did it. China did it in the early 2000s because they were tough about it. In India, on the other hand, we have a serious governance crisis. And as a result of this serious governance crisis in this country, all we do is blame game. Why haven't all these governments met on a regular basis with a war footing? [00:03:02] Gaurav Savant: Why have they not met? Preeti, if I may, it's very convenient. Rajdeep says, China has done it. India cannot do it. Now, the word India starts doing. I didn't say cannot do it. India has not done it. If India starts doing exactly what China did, Rajdeep will be the first one to say, elected autocracy. We are no longer a dictator, you know, democracy. We cannot do it. I am sorry. But, you know, you can't have all sides of the debate. And if I may, just on facts, it's not about Punjab or Madhya Pradesh. Every state is trying. Punjab is trying. Haryana is trying. And stubble fires have actually come down. In Punjab, Haryana, but they quadrupled in Madhya Pradesh. Yes, but if you go by data of Punjab and Haryana, which is usually the blame game, you know, from 2020, when it was 83,000 fires in Punjab, it's come down to 2,787 in November this year. [00:03:53] Rajdeep Sargassai: So, why does the Delhi Environment Minister blame Punjab? [00:03:55] Gaurav Savant: Because it's still too high. It's still too high. So, Punjab... And you will do nothing about what is happening in Delhi? Rajdeep wants to do his pravachan and does not want to hear anyone else. Make him, make him. I'll get it personal. I'll get it personal, I will leave. Guys, can we just... No, no, no, no, what, like Madhya Pradesh, then you, one must look. [00:04:20] Rajdeep Sargassai: Either you carry out a civilized debate, then the Savant is unable to do. Rajdeep, allow him. Okay, one second, Gaur. [00:04:29] Speaker 1: Let me speak, Bolo. Guys, okay, I don't want to bring out the timer, but let's be civil. No, no, you can't use one like one. Rajdeep, allow me, okay, fine, no personal. He must apologize for that word. One second. No, no, that's a personal word, he must apologize. Please refrain, please. [00:04:39] Rajdeep Sargassai: I will not carry on otherwise. [00:04:40] Speaker 1: Please refrain. [00:04:41] Rajdeep Sargassai: I have come on Diwali in the belief that you will carry out a civilized debate. Everybody's doing. Rajdeep, okay, let's one second, Gaurav. [00:04:48] Speaker 1: Gaurav doesn't have an argument because... I don't have an argument. There's no point. [00:04:51] Gaurav Savant: I am telling you the argument, but you have... [00:04:53] Speaker 1: Guys, you know, you've got to cut it, both of you, enough. We have to listen to him. Bolo, Bolo. And allow each other to have their... And Rajdeep, no, it's... Hey, Gaurav, steer clear from personal attacks and... No, no, you have to apologize. Allow everyone to finish. No, so, madam, if you can't... [00:05:07] Gaurav Savant: So, if I may, on the substantive point, Rajdeep and others, I must tell Rajdeep and all our friends, you know, I completely agree that environment and pollution is an issue. We must take far more seriously. For example, when COVID-19 happened, we had massive restrictions. When this happens month after month, and especially in the month of November, year after year, November is the worst month, year after year. November, we must have COVID-like restrictions, whether it's work from home, reduce the number of vehicles on road, cut construction in the national capital region, not just the national capital. All of this must happen. It's extremely essential. While you have a grab system, you have a graded response system, it just needs to be intensified, Pooja. [00:05:56] Speaker 4: All right, who wants to go next? I'll go next. We are not asking the main question here. Rajdeep, in fact, you are also doing the same political blame game. The main question is, like you're saying, why is the Delhi minister attacking Punjab? The main question is, 20 years ago, you've also been in Delhi, I've also been in Delhi. It was a beautiful fog winter arrival. What has changed in the past 20 years? The question is, there is something that has specially happened in the state of Punjab and that has impacted, let me make my point. And I'll tell you. And the issue is with regard to paddy farming. This has been called the rice bowl of India. Let me take you directly to the state of Sangroor. Let's do some research. Let's talk facts again. City. Sangroor especially, and with other cities, with the farm fire map also that was shown, why are there certain areas that are specially showing a higher farm count? The Sangroor area, which is the constituency of Chief Minister Bhagwan Taman, does its soil and in Punjab fit for the kind of paddy cultivation that we have forced our farmers to over-cultivate, give them a lowest harvest window and make it into a monocropping issue. What happened to other crops that used to grow in Punjab, which is the state that grows the best rice and is the highest rice producer? It's Bengal. Rice was not native to Punjab. [00:07:17] Speaker 1: Do you know Haryana produces more paddy than Punjab? [00:07:20] Speaker 4: We are also looking at the wind movement. What is happening then in Punjab? The reason is we have not put government initiatives properly. We are forced. We blame farmers. Why do they not take subsidies? Let me finish my point. Please let her finish. You have to find out rainfall, soil, over-cultivation, all of these are issues. And I'm not blaming one government here, but I'm asking why the governments have not done enough with regard to what farmers are facing right now. We are saying stubble bath burning. It's a national issue which we have reduced to Punjab. Why? [00:07:49] Rajdeep Sargassai: There must be a limit. Yeah, yeah, so when you come back to... [00:07:51] Speaker 4: I think that I knew this point would come up. The reason is, is Delhi reporting 2,000 farm fires? Is Uttar Pradesh reporting 2,000 farm fires? Has that number come down to nil in these areas? Why is Punjab still reporting? Yes, to the extent like Punjab, Preeti? Pretty much. 2,000, 3,000 farm fires, no, Preeti? Numbers are much lesser. [00:08:14] Rajdeep Sargassai: What is the maximum cost for pollution? Is it stubble fire? But let's also... Or is it your construction and transportation? Let's understand wind movement. [00:08:24] Speaker 1: Let's go one by one. Why are we getting into... These are my views. We have to understand what are the options our farmers have. [00:08:31] Speaker 4: The governments look at subsidy, low-term election victories. Let's give the sower, the farmers what they really need. Okay, okay. Done. [00:08:40] Speaker 5: Who wants to go next? May I? For a bunch of questions that have been raised and I'm gonna go literally by the affidavits that have been filed in the Supreme Court. [00:08:48] Gaurav Savant: Excellent. [00:08:49] Speaker 5: Brilliant. Because for some strange reason, we tend to politicize everything and talk about tum ne kya kya and tum ne kya kya and I'm sorry to say, that is exactly what we are here doing as well. Punjab shifted what it was cultivating because of laws that were specifically passed to change the way cultivation was being done to answer a particular issue that cropped up then. Yes. So, the water, the use of water, how much water you can use, all of that had to be changed by law. It was a law that was passed. Us time ke la tha, ab it doesn't work. But nobody is changing that right now because the wheat, the cutting of wheat until you can actually plant the rice, that window has gone, has shrunk so much. It is a problem that is flagged year after year after year. And again, 2014 is when the Delhi High Court flagged this issue of airpocalypse. I remember this. I was working at a newspaper which put it as the headline. Airpocalypse Delhi. The Delhi High Court had taken slow motor cognizance. It is 12 years. Every single year, in November and in April, in the Supreme Court, we are reporting the same damn numbers. We are looking at a long term measure that is required, which is not working fast enough. Because as a globe, as an entire earth, we have poisoned the air so much that the earth is beyond the tipping point of pollution. Let's face it. It is not about Delhi. It is not about Punjab. [00:10:29] Speaker 4: So you agree that we go native to the state, what their crops and vegetation is? [00:10:33] Speaker 5: Humans? [00:10:34] Speaker 1: Before we get into cross-questioning, the same argument applies when Rajdeep was interrupting. You do not interrupt. Anisha, after Anisha, Akshita will go. One more point I want to make. [00:10:45] Speaker 5: As far as farm fires are concerned, again, numbers. Let's look at the numbers. 2021, Punjab had 28,937 farm fires between 15 September to 4 November. 2026, it has gone down, thank God, to 2,347. Haryana had 3,997. It has gone down to 62. Uttar Pradesh had 64. It is now at 30. Crop residue burning. Yes. Crop residue. Okay. [00:11:15] Rajdeep Sargassai: I am the highest this year in Madhya Pradesh. My limited point is to please do not change this debate. Also the numbers are five times what they are reporting. This is a national emergency. Just a minute. Mumbai has the worst air emergency that it's also had in the last 24 months. Why? Because of the nature of construction that takes place. We do not prioritize the environment. That's my limited point. Fair point. All of you talk of a strong government. Can I get Ashita? One second, Anisha now keep quiet. Don't run around the bush. Yes. We will come back to you. Don't beat around the bush. We will come back to you for all rebuttals. [00:11:45] Speaker 1: Akshita go ahead. You keep quiet now. But who is beating around the bush? For the last ten minutes. [00:11:49] Speaker ?: For the last ten minutes. For the last ten minutes. [00:11:49] Speaker 1: Everyone, calm down a notch. Pooja, calm down a notch. [00:11:51] Speaker ?: Rajdeep, please everybody tone it down. [00:11:51] Speaker 1: Now you go. [00:11:52] Speaker 4: For the last ten minutes, I think what we have been doing is pointing fingers Delhi, Punjab, [00:11:55] Speaker 1: government, this, that, stubble. [00:12:09] Speaker 6: The root causes vehicular pollution in Delhi. The root causes also geographical location. It's also the fact that look, in Delhi, environmental issues make it the way it is. But having said that, I also feel that the reason politicians get away with it is because everyone's lax about it. Let's face it. We all talk about it. We're all sitting in our homes with the air purifiers on and that's it. After that, when you have to go on elections, there's no talk of it. There's some talk of our Yamuna cleaning, of air cleaning, but nobody votes on these issues. People out there also, whatever steps the government says. Let's say Grap 3, Grap 4 is put in. You have additional steps taken by the central government. Now, by the way, they've put more curbs. They've said no construction activities. We'll bring dust down. We'll promote public transport. Doesn't work? No. People still take their cars out, goes everywhere they need to, which is the Supreme Court's point also about Diwali shoppers. My point is that people don't take it seriously. We can pinpoint. We can blame the governments. The governments will bring in restrictions. We'll curse the government for restrictions, saying it's making our life so hard, and then complain about the pollution as well. [00:13:09] Speaker 1: Are you done? Can I just come in for just 20 seconds? Because, you know, I think... Can I go for longer? No, no. 20 seconds in Afghanistan. Gauras being very kind on Diwali. Gauras being very, very kind. No, just a very basic point, and I think successive governments across India have been extremely lazy. And, you know, contrary to what you might say, Akshita, you know, people are not going to be bothered in India, because most of Indians are trying to figure out where their second square meal is coming from. Most of Indians don't really care about pollution. It is in urban cities. Not that the bee towns, not that villages aren't polluted, but it will never be an issue where most... Do you consider Delhi... Allow me to finish. Just allow me to finish, right? So, it will never be an issue for most Indians, because like I said, they have bigger fish to fry. They have issues about what they're going to do next, where their meal is coming from. This is an out-and-out issue of governance. And I think successively, I'm not blaming one government or the other. Successively, we have had state-wise and at the centre, one of the laziest governments ever. They have always put environment right at the bottom of the stack, never ever looking at... I'm not sure. I don't think so. Most have. Most have. Because people don't complain. 90% of people are looking at the next meal. I'll just finish. I will just... I'm not saying 90%. But, Preeti, don't... I said... Guys, you know, I think you all have been given... Allow me to finish. Yes. [00:14:32] Speaker ?: Right? [00:14:32] Speaker 1: Allow me to finish. [00:14:33] Gaurav Savant: Before you... But that's too much of a statement that... Most... Yes. [00:14:37] Speaker 1: Most Indians... Most Indians... Most Indians, yes, don't care about pollution. Go out there. Most Indians... That's exactly what I also said. Somebody... But it's not because they're looking for their next meal. Can I finish? Yes, most people who are struggling in a metropolis like Delhi... Who have moved in from smaller cities, who have come here... Are trying to make end meals. Next meal is a figure of speech. But yes, allow me to finish, Akshata, before you interject. Allow me to make a point. I allowed you, right? Allow me to make that point. So, yes, most of these cities have people where they are coming... They don't care about pollution. They don't. It's not... I disagree. Okay, yes, you've made... Five times you've made that point, right? You care about pollution because you're sitting in a plus studio. Somebody who's out there... No. Who's trying to commute from an X point to Y... Pollution is not an issue. He has bigger fish to fry. This is a governance issue. And successively... I am not saying BJP or the Congress or the Aam Admi Party... Successively, each party has failed to prioritize... Environment pollution as an issue. [00:15:39] Gaurav Savant: You know, if... Permit me to disagree... Only on the point that governments are not serious about it... Or they're not doing much. There's a lot that is being done... And I'm not going this government or that government. It's reactive, Gaurav. Hear me out. It's reactive. Okay, hear me out. [00:15:52] Speaker 1: We are in reactive mode. We don't actually put in measures. Okay. [00:15:56] Gaurav Savant: So, measures like 100% electrification of railways... Is a big step that's happening. Solar energy where India is taking a big leap... In the International Solar Alliance. You know, you want solar energy in your homes. Various subsidies are being given. So, there are a lot of steps that are... Look at emissions. And emissions. You know, there is a lot that's being done. A lot more needs to be done. It's not that governments are not serious... Or governments are not doing... But this has to be a national effort... Where governments and people work together. But Gaurav, they've never prioritized it. They have never prioritized it. [00:16:26] Speaker 1: Can I now make a simple point? Yeah, let's go all the way back again. Make your point. [00:16:30] Rajdeep Sargassai: It's very interesting to say governments and people... Should work together. I don't think it's people together. One minute. One minute. I mean, you just... I had two and a half seconds and you interjected. Make your point. Make your point. Rajdeep. You know, look at Mumbai. The BMC decides to have a campaign. To ask people to be more responsible and restrained during Diwali. Immediately what happens? The BJP leader of the state targets Dia Mirza. Who frankly, out of the lot, who was chosen as ambassadors for this campaign... Is the only one who has credentials to do it. Because she's worked as a climate change ambassador for the last decade with the United Nations. Forget the reason why they did it. We all know why. I won't even mention it. This is the sad nature of the toxicity of what communism does in a country. But the point is... You know what, I'm going to start the... Someone is running a campaign. But the BMC has taken a very... You know, has taken a responsible stand and said... Let's have a Diwali celebrated in a restrained manner. Immediately what are the reactions? Who is the BMC to tell me how I will celebrate Diwali? I will burst as many crackers. Who is the Supreme Court to tell me that I will only celebrate crackers with green crackers? No, one minute, one minute. [00:17:41] Gaurav Savant: When you said that, you see... There is supposed to be a year long ban on crackers. [00:17:50] Speaker 1: Guys, you know, one second. Okay, I'm gonna... Allow me to get... Preeti, one point. No, one second. No, one point. Everybody will come at their own time. One second. [00:17:59] Speaker ?: Can I finish? [00:17:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Listen, I'm gonna start a stop. One second. You know, I'm gonna make this really fair now. I have a stopwatch. Everybody gets a minute. So... And everybody gets a minute. Rajdeep, your minute starts now. [00:18:08] Rajdeep Sargassai: So, citizens who are tied up in livelihood issues. You know, you're in a city like Mumbai. You've got so many other livelihood issues. Just the sheer battle for existence. It means that you don't prioritize this. You want to celebrate during Diwali. You celebrate. And Diwali is, of course, not the reason why pollution is 365 days. I think we have to realize that Indian cities are the worst of across the year. Not just November. It peaks. But we have some of the most polluted cities across the year. Citizens have to answer. But at the end of the day, governments have to answer. Show me a government which has made it the number one priority. Arvind Kejriwal for a while tried it with odd even. [00:18:44] Speaker 1: Right? [00:18:45] Rajdeep Sargassai: That was harebrained. Yeah, no, no. It was harebrained because there are countries where it succeeded, but you have to have it part of a larger strategy. It was reactive. Reactive like what we're doing now. No, it cannot be at all. It cannot be at all. Put it on me. Rajdeep, your one minute is over. [00:18:58] Speaker 1: Guys, wait your turn. Rajdeep, you're done. You're done. [00:19:02] Rajdeep Sargassai: One last sentence. One sentence. It requires a partnership between governments. Which is exactly what I said. Between citizens. Between civil society groups. Okay. Between environmentalists. And between various stakeholders including farmers. Okay, you're done. For example, since farmers are blamed. Rajdeep. What are the reasons that the farmers are blamed? Rajdeep. Okay, cut. Hard cut. Rajdeep. [00:19:22] Speaker 1: I'll come to you at your time, Pooja. No, but that's exactly what they said. Akshita, one second. We'll come to you at your time. Okay. God of your minute starts now. Go. [00:19:32] Gaurav Savant: Exactly what I said. It has to be an effort where government and people need to work together. Point one. Point two. A lot has been done. The International Solar Alliance going for solar energy. 100% electrification of railways. Going in for more electric cars. All of these are some measures that have been taken. And a lot more need to be done. You know, you need that eclipse that you mentioned. We need to actually for that one month of November have massive restrictions across Delhi NCR. Like COVID. That will really work to ensure that that one month passes off. But in long term, yes, stubble burning, some steps have been taken. More needs to be done. Punjab and Haryana have both done a lot because of international pressure. Because of national pressure. Look at, you know, from Punjab, it's come down from 83,000 to 2,000. Haryana has come down from 4,000 to just 60 or 80 that you were mentioning. And these are figures in courts of law. So, a lot has been done. A lot more needs to be done. As part of partnership between governments and people. And as far as environmentalists are concerned, you know, they can't just crop up and say, Diwali pe cracker mad burn karo. Gaurav, I've given you one minute, 10 seconds. [00:20:41] Speaker 1: Yes, yes. [00:20:42] Gaurav Savant: That one point on Diwali cracker. On Diwali cracker, either you stop crackers on Christmas, on New Year's Eve, every time. But you're not letting me complete this point. Either you stop crackers throughout. Or don't target Diwali. Because it's become systematic. You target Hindu festivals. Holi may be pollution. Diwali may be pollution. Okay. Raksha, one of that's one minute 30. No, no. [00:21:06] Speaker 1: Not you. [00:21:07] Speaker 4: Pooja, yes. Now I'm finally coming to you. Your one minute starts now. Go. My quick point is, Rajdeep says that you're mentioning Punjab, Punjab. I'm mentioning it for a reason exactly for what he said. Rather than look at issues which are about nativity of crops. Bring in experts. Think of long term measures. Sit together. What do we do? Grab three. Pooja will take only odd number of vehicles. What do I do on the next day? I don't have two vehicles. Construction. Construction. I'm getting my house made construction. So the Delhi resident needs to suffer while the governments don't have long term measures. The industries can continue. Everything can continue. But a normal resident like livelihood. I also have to learn my livelihood. But I have to bear with all the restrictions. And I will. I will willingly do it. Come to Diwali. I'm ready to not burst firecrackers. But is the pollution at 400 right now because of Diwali? Because of firecrackers? Yes, it may add to it. I don't deny that. But what were the governments doing all these months? Now you're telling me. One thing is coming. We all look forward to it. Gifting too. Firecrackers too. Pollution. I agree. We'll do it. But you tell me what the government is doing all these years. Bring in experts. Bring in incentives. Look at long term measures rather than ask people to restrict on the festivals. [00:22:24] Speaker 1: Okay. One minute, 20 seconds for you. Anisha, you can go now. [00:22:29] Speaker 5: Cracker ban was mooted for the entire year round. Cracker ban was... In fact, the Supreme Court had also given that "Do not allow bursting of crackers in the winter months." Then they had to carve out that exception because everybody created a ruckus. In fact, we had great souls going to the Supreme Court gates and bursting crackers there. "Do not allow bursting of crackers in the winter months." Then the Supreme Court, in all its wisdom, had to go out and say, "Okay, you know what? Because you're so touchy about festivals, you're so touchy about festivals, you're so touchy about festivals, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:17] Speaker ?: you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:17] Speaker 5: you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:42] Gaurav Savant: you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:46] Speaker 5: you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:49] Gaurav Savant: you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:50] Speaker 6: you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:23:55] Speaker 1: you're so touchy about Christmas, [00:24:04] Speaker 6: you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, you're so touchy about Christmas, that governments are not doing anything, I think that's very unfair to say, because yes, governments are trying, I would love to see a lot more, I would love to see more cooperation on that front, but there are GRAP, graded response plans in place, the central government besides that has also come in with more restrictions in place, the challenge is also in implementation, because people to some extent will say, we can't be inconvenienced on both levels, we're facing pollution, and we can't go ahead and stop everything else from happening in our lives, so I think that what we're seeing right now is, yes, the government is taking steps, the challenge is maybe that in the long run, it's going to take a long time, and we have to face that, that it's a pollution fight, that's not short term. [00:25:11] Speaker 1: Alright, so 1:15, you're 1:15, you can start timing me now if you want, otherwise I'll time myself, I just want to do 20 seconds. We trust you. Okay, 20, no, no, there you go, there you go. Okay, why I think most people really don't care about pollution is, because if they really cared, it would show as an electoral issue, it does not show as an electoral issue, because like I said, most Indians have bigger fish to fry, their life that they live, priority wise, pollution is not on the top of it, but it should be on the top of the government's priority. Number, why I think successive governments fail, for example, we put in these Grap 3, Grap 2, Grap 1, the other way around, yet, where is our public transport? We haven't created a public transport, if somebody wants to now commute from Uttar Pradesh, and bring in a car into Delhi, which is not compliant with Grap 3, then they can pretty much, there is no public transport. There is a metro service. There isn't, it's very little. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:12] Rajdeep Sargassai: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:13] Speaker 1: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:17] Rajdeep Sargassai: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:19] Speaker 1: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:22] Gaurav Savant: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:23] Speaker 1: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:25] Speaker ?: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:25] Gaurav Savant: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. [00:26:27] Speaker 1: Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. Mumbai now has a much better metro service. No I do think public transport in this country is terrible. We do not have. You can't walk on the roads. If somebody wants to walk you can't. There are no footpaths. There is no public transport. It is a government issue is what I feel. At least that's my own personal submission. Governance issue. It is a governance issue and issues with successive governments Rajdeep. It's their responsibility. Time is done Pooja. Right now can we please let it be. And all of you have a very happy Diwali. [00:27:03] Rajdeep Sargassai: Around this table I want to ask. [00:27:05] Speaker 1: Actually yeah go ahead. How will you celebrate Diwali? One line. [00:27:08] Speaker 4: Patakas Pooja. How will you celebrate Diwali? I'll celebrate as it has been traditionally done. True to our traditions of the civilization. We'll do it. [00:27:16] Speaker 1: What is your, how will you celebrate Diwali? [00:27:17] Speaker 4: You're assuming that sir. How will you celebrate Diwali? [00:27:20] Gaurav Savant: We'll be happy, we'll meet with friends. We'll do it. [00:27:25] Speaker 6: Well in Tamil Nadu you wake up at 3am in the morning and see who's the first one to burst a cracker. I can't do that here unfortunately because the Supreme Court has said nothing to do. You still, you have time limits. No I can't do it at 3am at 4am. Oh 3am. Yeah. [00:27:40] Speaker 5: Keep it as clean as possible. Clean the house I think that is one thing that my parents are going to make me do. And decorate you Rajdeep. [00:27:46] Rajdeep Sargassai: That happens before Diwali. Eat well. Sleep well. Dress well. [00:27:51] Speaker 1: Alright, okay so on that note. It's a wrap from all of us. Have yourself a very very happy Diwali. And we look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you for watching. [00:28:01] Gaurav Savant: Happy Diwali. Proud of us.