Defendant Nicholas Kassotis Testifies — Dismembered Wife Murder Trial

[00:00:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: and take the oath. Do you swear or affirm the testimony that you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. Please be safe. Mr. Kasotis, would you please state your name and spell it? Nicholas James Kasotis, N-I-C-H-O-L-A-S, and my last name is K-A-S-S-O-T-I-S, though at this time that is not my legal name. Would you please tell the jury your legal name? Nicholas Killian James Stark, S-T-A-R-K. And would you spell that? Killian James and Stark. Oh, Killian is K-I-L-I-A-N, and James is J-A-M-E-S. Where were you born? I was born in Peterborough, New Hampshire. Where did you grow up? Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire. It is a very small town directly on the Massachusetts border. Small, rural New Hampshire. You talk about one-stoplight towns, and we don't even have a full stoplight. It's one of those flashing ones. [00:01:04] Speaker 2: Well, tell us about the region you grew up in. What was it like? [00:01:07] Nicholas James Kasotis: It's a rural area. You know, it's heavily forested. I grew up on a dirt road, kind of in the middle of the woods. You know, it's... We have kind of regional high schools because all the surrounding towns are too small, so we have to put enough people together to fill a school. [00:01:28] Speaker 2: What kind of recreational activities took place in that neck of the woods? [00:01:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: A lot of hunting. You know, normal outdoor things, hiking, swimming. We lived about a mile from a lake. [00:01:39] Speaker 2: What activities did you participate in? [00:01:41] Nicholas James Kasotis: I ran. I hiked. I was, you know, I loved being outdoors. I still love being outdoors. So, so a lot of kind of exploring, as some members of my family will say, sometimes getting a little too close to a wildlife for my own safety, but... [00:01:58] Speaker 2: Please tell the jury about your education. [00:02:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: After high school, I went to Boston University for college. I got my bachelor's there in 2004, and then I went to the Northeastern University School of Law, also in Boston. I got my JD, which is your basic law degree. Following your JD, what career did you pursue? I passed the Massachusetts bar that year and joined the United States Navy as a judge advocate. [00:02:25] Speaker 2: Okay. Please tell the jury about your time in the Navy. [00:02:29] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, I went on active duty starting in early 2008 after completing some training. You know, we have what's called the Officer Development School and the Naval Justice School, and then I reported to my first duty station in Norfolk, Virginia, where I was a defense attorney and a legal assistance attorney. While I was there, I also ran a couple of our smaller offices, and I deployed twice. I deployed once on a short notice on the USNS Comfort. I was the, we would say the staff judge advocate. It's kind of just like an in-house lawyer for the mission commander. It was a humanitarian mission to Central America, South America, and the Caribbean on the ship for four or five months. I also deployed to Iraq, where I was stationed in Baghdad at a base called Camp Cropper, and I was doing issues related to detainees. You know, the military captures a lot of people, and they have legal cases in Iraqi courts. They have legal rights and obligations that we have to give them. They're being interviewed by various things, and there was a lot of various legal issues that we had that I worked on. What about your career following Iraq? After I finished up in Norfolk, I was there on and off for three years with the deployments. I transferred to region legal service office, URAFSA, as we call it, Europe, Africa, and Southwest Asia. I was stationed in Siginella, Sicily, at Naval Air Station, Siginella. There I was a prosecutor, and I was a, again, kind of a legal advisor to the commands on base, to the base commander, things of that nature. Tell us about your time as a prosecutor. I handled court-martials in the military, also some administrative boards, you know, folks getting kind of thrown out. A lot of sexual assaults, unfortunately. That is the most common crime, I think, we see at the court-martial level in the military. But, you know, some drug use cases, [00:04:37] Speaker 2: thefts, things of that nature. You mentioned sexual assault, drug use cases. Any other types of crimes that you prosecuted that you can recall right now? Not that I can recall. Were you also a defense attorney? I was a defense attorney in Norfolk. What types of crimes were you defending against [00:04:56] Nicholas James Kasotis: there? Also, mainly sexual assault. Sometimes, I had a kind of an odd case that was a, somebody had refused, or hadn't refused, I would argue, hadn't refused, but had not taken a required urinalysis, drug test. And, and that, that wound up at a, at a court-martial. Some hazing cases, kind of, kind of some interesting drug use, things of that nature. I think one assault. Did you eventually end up in the Pentagon? I did. After Italy, I was stationed at the Pentagon for a couple years. When I first got there, I was an administrative law attorney. So, anytime the military is trying to promote somebody, not promote somebody, fire somebody, it requires legal review, and it would wind its way through our office on its way to, to the, the three-star admiral, who was kind of the head of our, our community. And after that, I, I stayed, I moved to the office right next door, uh, what was then called our international and operational law division. Now it's called the national security law division. I was the chief of international affairs, I believe was my, uh, was my job title. And I, I managed, uh, international agreements that the Navy has with navies and countries all over the world. [00:06:16] Speaker 2: Did you get any further education while you were with the Navy? I did. While I was at the Pentagon, [00:06:20] Nicholas James Kasotis: I started going at night to get my LLM, which is a master's in law. Uh, and I got that at Georgetown University, uh, law center in national security law, focusing mostly on cybersecurity and privacy related [00:06:33] Speaker 2: issues. Can you tell us more about cybersecurity that you studied? Yeah. Uh, anything from in, uh, [00:06:39] Nicholas James Kasotis: cyber investigations and prosecutions to compliance, you know, what companies have to do when they retain your data, which as you know, as I think we probably all know, companies know everything about us these days. So, um, you know, they're what they have to do to protect them regular, you know, under their regulatory, uh, rules, how they can use things, what they're allowed to do. At some point, did you leave the Pentagon? I did. I left in, I want to say September of 2017. I left active duty. And where did you go from there? Uh, at that point, I went to, uh, the, the, a department of the Navy job with the board for correction of Naval records. Uh, when it is mostly when folks leave the military that there are, there are other things that they do, but for the most part, when folks leave the military and don't have the discharge that they, that they want, you know, we talk about honorable discharges and then they're, you know, four that aren't as good. Um, sometimes they, years, either months or years later, they want to try to upgrade that to a better discharge. And those cases are reviewed by the board for correction of Naval records. But you were no longer with the Navy at that point. Is that correct? I, I was not, I was not a member of the Navy. I was a civilian working for the Navy and I was a Navy reservist at that time. When did you cease being a Navy reservist? I, I think officially I ceased being a Navy reservist in the fall of 2019, summer, fall of 2019, but I'm not exactly sure of that date. I had stopped drilling and by drilling, we mean when people talk about the reserves, it's that one weekend a month, two weeks a year. Uh, I had stopped doing that, uh, one weekend a month sometime before that in anticipation of leaving the reserves. [00:08:30] Speaker 2: What's the process for when you leave the active duty, active duty in the Navy? [00:08:34] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, you, you have to write a request and it is, it goes through your immediate boss and then it winds up in, uh, in Millington, Tennessee at Navy personnel command where it is either, you know, you were allowed to leave or you are, or you were told no for some reason. [00:08:47] Speaker 2: Is there a letter of resignation? There is a letter of recommendation. Oh, I'm sorry. One sec. Please let me finish the question before you respond. So is there a letter of resignation that goes along with that? [00:08:58] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, there is. [00:09:00] Speaker 2: What did you state in your letter of resignation if you recall? [00:09:03] Nicholas James Kasotis: If I recall, it was that I wanted more geographic stability and more professional, uh, stability. So the, the Navy JAG Corps puts a lot of emphasis on both moving constantly and also taking a lot of different jobs. They, they, uh, want people who are very well rounded. They can plug into any job at a, at a moment's notice, which is obviously useful for the military, but I wanted to be able to concentrate more professionally. When did you leave the Naval Reserve? That was, I believe, fall 2019. [00:09:33] Speaker 2: Did that also have an, um, a resignation process involving a letter? It did. And what did you state in that letter, if you recall? [00:09:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: If I recall correctly, at that point it was, uh, I talked about, uh, some health issues that my wife Mindy was going through. [00:09:53] Speaker 2: Let's go back a little bit. Okay. To your, to your time in the Navy. Uh, tell us about your personal life during that time. [00:09:59] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, when I arrived in Norfolk, I was single, uh, and several months later I met, uh, then Heather Bassett, who I, I later married. [00:10:10] Speaker 2: Do you recall when you married Heather Bassett? [00:10:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: September 26th, 2009. Tell us about that marriage. Uh, well, it was not great. We, uh, we had, we had a lot of issues, I think, kind of, uh, throughout, uh, to the point where, uh, I, I later heard the, the night before our wedding, she told somebody publicly that she didn't think it was going to last. Um, you know, we, we had, uh, I was deployed a lot. Uh, I was deployed for a large chunk of our engagement. I was deployed within two months of us getting married. I don't think either of those is also a good, uh, a good step for marital success. Um, but, uh, you know, we, I, I think we had a lot of disagreements kind of throughout our marriage. [00:11:00] Speaker 2: What kind of disagreements did you have? [00:11:02] Nicholas James Kasotis: Things about money, about career moves, about children. [00:11:07] Speaker 2: What were the disagreements about children? [00:11:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, when we had, when we had started dating, uh, Heather had stated that, that she wanted children and that it would be relatively easy for her to have children. That, uh, that, well, she had a, a, uh, something called PCOS. Uh, I'm not really sure what you would call it. It's not, it's not a disease. It's a syndrome of some type that, uh, that there were medications she could take that would make [00:11:31] Speaker 2: it very easy down the line for her to have children. Did you ever have children with Ms. Bassett? [00:11:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: I did not, no. Uh, we, we discussed it many times. At one point we both got tested to see if, you know, everything was in working order, but she chose not to take the, uh, she chose not to take the medication that, uh, and, and therefore we never had children. Uh, I don't put, there was, there was never a pregnancy or, or the attempt of a pregnancy. [00:11:59] Speaker 2: When did you, tell me about the end of your marriage to, to Heather. [00:12:05] Nicholas James Kasotis: In, sometime in 2015, uh, we had been having, I wouldn't even say issues because we weren't arguing, but she was, she was gone a lot. She was, uh, spending nights at friend's house, uh, which was unusual. She was, uh, she was not around much. And, uh, at one point when she was around, she asked me to help her print a document from her computer. And while I was doing that, a Facebook message popped up on it that, uh, was obviously romantic in nature. Um, I, she kind of snatched it away and said, oh, I just remembered how to print on here. Um, and I started, I guess, looking into what was going on. And about a week later, I confronted her, um, at the time I, I took a recording of the, the conversation. Um, but, uh, but, you know, I said, I knew that she was seeing somebody. She, she told me that she was, that she'd been seeing, uh, a coworker of hers for, for some time, uh, a man named Anthony, uh, Thomas. And, uh, and she, she left that day and moved to his house, uh, and then kind of moved back, I believe the next day. And, and we talked about things for a little while. Um, she continued to see him and then she moved out again back into his house. Did you eventually get divorced? We did. I filed for divorce on September 1st of, uh, 2015. And it was granted about a month and a half later, if memory serves, sometime in [00:13:31] Speaker 2: October. Were you represented by council during that divorce? I was not. Was Heather? She was not. You, and you said the divorce was finalized about a month later? Roughly, yes. It was, it was, uh, [00:13:48] Nicholas James Kasotis: October of 20, uh, 2015. Do you know if Heather ever remarried following your divorce? She did. The, the, the following day she married, uh, Tony as, as, uh, as he goes by. Her, the, the man that she was seeing, uh, that she told me she was seeing during our marriage. When did you meet Mindy Kasotis? I met Mindy on September 18th, 2015. How did you meet? We had met on a, uh, dating website called OkCupid. Um, and, uh, we had talked for, I don't know, maybe a week or so. And then we met at a, uh, at a restaurant in Alexandria, Virginia. Do you recall where you met? Yeah, it was called Blackwall Hitch. It's, uh, it's a restaurant, uh, kind of right down by the water. It's a, it's a nice little spot. [00:14:39] Speaker 2: And you eventually married Mindy Kasotis. Mindy Mbain Kasotis, correct? Uh, fairly quickly. Yeah, [00:14:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: I mean, it was, you know, I mean, I would say within a, within a month we were talking about marriage, um, you know, starting to look at wedding venues. It happened very quickly. And we, we married just [00:14:56] Speaker 2: over a year later on October 9th, uh, 2016. At the time that you married Mindy Mbain Kasotis, you still had obligations under your divorce decree from, to Heather, correct? Yes, I did. Do you recall [00:15:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: the specific obligations that you had? Yes, there were, there were two loans that we, uh, we were both on a personal loan where we had refinanced, uh, refined some, some credit cards, if I remember correctly, and a, uh, Chevy Silverado. Um, and later, I was also at that point living in the marital property and, um, and making payments on the mortgage, but later on she asked, uh, because that had been purchased under her, uh, VA mortgage. You know, the, uh, for people who are veterans, they have the right to a VA mortgage. It had been purchased under her VA mortgage, uh, right? So she asked me to work on refinancing and removing her from that so that she could use her, her VA mortgage, uh, for home purchase with Tony. Were you able to do that refinancing? I was not, no. I had started the process. We had, I paid for an attorney, uh, because there, there was deed work required. It was kind of a lengthy process and, uh, and by the time it was reaching fruition, uh, a lot of other things were [00:16:14] Speaker 2: going wrong. Did you fulfill any of the other obligations that were required to be fulfilled in [00:16:24] Nicholas James Kasotis: your divorce decree from Heather? Uh, some of them, uh, you know, there was a, there was a lump sum payment, I believe of $3,000 to pay off a bill that, that I paid off. Um, and you know, I, I was working on other things, but, but they did not come to, they did not come to pass. Did Heather eventually pursue [00:16:42] Speaker 2: you for your failure to fulfill your obligation? She did. What did she do? She filed a, a, uh, some sort [00:16:51] Nicholas James Kasotis: of a complaint in court saying that I was not fulfilling my obligations under a divorce degree. How did that resolve itself? I believed, uh, that, uh, it resolved itself in an agreement and then a payment to her. [00:17:04] Speaker 2: What was the agreement on what you were supposed to pay Heather in that resolution? In that resolution, [00:17:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was supposed to pay her roughly $1.5 million. Did you make that payment? I believed the payment was made on my behalf. I did not actually make the payment, but I saw documentation and I believed at the time that it was made. I had no reason not to. I, I believe you told the court you had 32 million dollars. Is that correct? That's what I was told. That's what I had been provided documentation to show. Let's go ahead and get into that. Yes, sir. [00:17:40] Speaker 2: You said things began to get weird. Can you explain that to the jury and also explain about the time [00:17:46] Nicholas James Kasotis: frames for that? Yes. Uh, in 2017, uh, we were, we were discussing my upcoming, uh, departure from active duty. We were discussing, you know, starting a family, uh, several things. And, uh, Mindy was, uh, very actively watching all of our spending because she wanted to make sure that we were in the best position, uh, financially. And she started noticing odd deductions from our accounts that had no, that weren't tied to anything that we were doing. Uh, sometimes they seemed to be, the ones she showed me were, uh, they didn't even have transaction numbers. It would just say something like payment and, you know, hundreds of dollars would go missing. Uh, at the time we do, we thought it was an error with our bank. We were banking with the USAA at the time and thought that, uh, thought that this was some sort of a bank error that would be easily resolved. Did you tell other people about the bank issue outside of Mindy? At this time, I don't know that we did. We might have. Um, but again, at, uh, in early 2017, we did not think that this was a serious issue. Did you take that up with your bank, USAA? Mindy did. Uh, I was, uh, at this time, uh, both working full time in the Pentagon, uh, looking for jobs and I was still taking that LLM at night. So I was, uh, kind of burning the candle at both ends, but I, uh, she was taking care of kind of our, Mindy was not working at this time. So, so she was, uh, in charge of that. And again, would you tell, [00:19:18] Speaker 2: when you say at this time, would you tell the jury the rough timeframe of the U.S.A.? Early to mid 2017. Okay. Please let me get my, uh, questions out so that the court reporter can get it all down. You said 2018? 2017. 2017. Um, anything else strange begin to happen around that [00:19:38] Nicholas James Kasotis: timeframe? Uh, not at that time, though. We had been having, uh, kind of some, I'll say familial arguments. Um, you know, Mindy, it started with Mindy and my brother, Chris, um, and, you know, kind of evolved over time to, to include our parents. It was, uh, you know, at that time, I believed it to be kind of normal, marital, you know, a new wife, uh, somebody that they didn't know very well. And that, you know, these were kind of growing pains that we were going through. When you say marital arguments, were those arguments between you and Mindy? Uh, sometimes, but, but, uh, more often between Mindy and, uh, and my brother at this time. Your brother, Chris? My brother, Chris. Okay. Any other weirdness begin to happen later? Yes. Uh, in late, sometime in late 2017, uh, we'd seen kind of a brief reprieve where we thought that things had, you know, our bank had fixed the issues, that things were no longer, uh, going wrong. And suddenly it kind of restarted with a, uh, uh, you know, a lot more than it had before. And we, uh, we also started seeing vandalism at our house. Uh, I would sometimes get anonymous emails stating, you know, that I was going to be hurt or killed. Our mail would go missing, um, things of that nature. [00:20:59] Speaker 2: Did you ever report that to any law enforcement? I did. Who did you report that to? I reported that to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. How did you report it to the FBI? Uh, on their website somewhere, [00:21:14] Nicholas James Kasotis: they had a, uh, you know, report a crime. And, uh, I, I filed a complaint there and I, I believe Mindy also filed the complaint there. Where were you living at the time? I was living at 3805 Adrian Drive in Alexandria, Virginia. That was the house that Heather and I had, uh, purchased while we were married. And I continued living there after the, the dissolution of our marriage. And then after, later when I met Mindy and she moved in, uh, we lived in that house. Did you report it to the [00:21:40] Speaker 2: Alexandria Police Department? I did not. What county is Alexandria in? Uh, so Al, Virginia's a little [00:21:46] Nicholas James Kasotis: strange, but, uh, there is an Alexandria City part of Alexandria, which is, uh, so they are their own county. Uh, and then there is a Fairfax County part of Alexandria, which is where I lived. Did you report it to any county law enforcement? I did not. What happened after? I'm sorry, can I say why? Uh, the, the mail, my understanding was a federal crime as well as the banking issues. And since they all seemed, I imagine that they were all connected, uh, I, I did not think going to local law enforcement would accomplish anything except for a police report. Pardon me, but let me backtrack for a moment. [00:22:22] Speaker 2: Yes, sir. When you were at the Pentagon, was there ever any publicity surrounding your name? [00:22:28] Nicholas James Kasotis: There was. What was that about? In summer of 2016, I think about a month before our wedding, uh, a high profile case regarding a Marine, uh, had wound its way past my desk, uh, and it resulted, a memo that, that I had been the initial author of, uh, was quoted in the Washington Post. It got a lot of attention. Why did it get a lot of attention? Uh, I think because of the, uh, both, both some of the underlying facts of the case. I, I wasn't, I wasn't involved in the underlying, uh, facts of the case, but several Marines were killed in Afghanistan by a corrupt, uh, Afghan police officer. There were some very salacious, uh, awful personal details about him and crimes he committed against children. And it had to do with, uh, emailing classified, uh, information. That, that, that was, that was the case that came to me, was this Marine who had retained and then emailed in unclassified form, uh, classified information. And for any of you who remember the, the 2016 election, that was, uh, that was a big issue about, uh, about who, who was putting what on, uh, unclassified emails. So I think that kind of the timing, a couple months before that election, uh, you know, it was, it was a perfect storm for, to get some, uh, some press attention. How, if at all, did that press attention affect you at the time? Uh, at the time I was, uh, I was in the process of applying to jobs. I'd actually had a third or fourth interview at a position I believed I was going to get and, uh, you know, very suddenly was, was not even being contacted anymore by them. Okay, let's move back [00:24:10] Speaker 2: forward to the vandalism that you were experiencing. What type of vandalism was that? Uh, nails in our tires, [00:24:15] Nicholas James Kasotis: a broken window, things of that nature. I mean, you know, we wouldn't, uh, we wouldn't even move our cars some days and it would have a new tire, a new hole in the tire. Was there any result of you reporting, making this report to the FBI? Yes, there was. What happened? Uh, several, uh, I, I contacted a, a, or I tried to contact a former colleague who worked with the Department of Justice. I, I hoped that it would get us out of the, you know, the bin of everybody's complaints and, and a bit more attention. I wasn't sure if I had managed to contact him, uh, just because of, of his job. He, uh, he keeps a very low profile, but, uh, several days later I got a call at work. This was when I was working as a civilian at the, uh, Board for Correction Naval Records and Mindy said that an FBI agent had come to the house. [00:25:03] Speaker 2: What did you do after learning that an FBI agent had come to the house? I asked her, uh, what they [00:25:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: had talked about. She said that he was there in regards to what had been happening to us, that he would be returning, um, in the near future. I don't recall everything, you know, it's been, I mean, seven years. I'm not, I'm not sure exactly what she told me that day versus what I learned shortly thereafter. What was the name given by the FBI agent? Jim McIntyre. [00:25:37] Speaker 2: What happened next with respect to Jim McIntyre? He came back a couple days later. [00:25:42] Nicholas James Kasotis: Did you meet with him at that time? I did. Tell us about that. Uh, he came to the house, uh, I believe he had, he had called to schedule it to make sure that I was going to be home at the time. Uh, he seemed very thorough, very professional. He, he wanted to know everything that had happened. He wanted copies of the emails that we had received. He wanted specific issues with the banks. Uh, I believe we printed out, uh, screenshots of the charges that showed what had been going on. And, uh, and we provided all that to him. And he said that it was something he took seriously and that, [00:26:16] Speaker 2: uh, that he would be investigating it. So some random individual shows up at your house, says he's with the FBI and claims to be a man named Jim McIntyre. What did you do to verify that [00:26:26] Nicholas James Kasotis: information? I, I didn't verify it. Mindy believed that she had, that she had seen a badge. She told me at the time that she'd seen a badge. I had no reason to doubt that he was who he said he was. It, it didn't cross my mind that somebody else could have shown up at my house at that time. And what was your education again at this point in time? At this point, I had, uh, I had my LLM. I had, so I had two law degrees and my, and my bachelor's. I'd also worked with FBI agents in a number of different fields. I did, I did not see anything that caused me to question that he was who he said he was. In fact, I thought that we were lucky. I had, uh, as this was going on, I read multiple news reports of people who'd undergone cyber stalking and, and cyber crimes. And often it seemed like their, their big battle was getting somebody to believe what was going on, taking, getting, uh, law enforcement to take it seriously, getting, getting law enforcement who had jurisdiction over the crimes to take it seriously. And, and I, I thought we were lucky. I said many times how lucky we were. What did Jim McIntyre advise you? Um, over the coming, uh, weeks or months, he advised us that he believed that, that this, uh, Washington Post article had gotten me some, uh, some attention that, that I was, that, uh, from a overseas, you know, hacking group of some sort that was targeting members of the military. Uh, he, he said that, that we should relax somewhat because he believed that the, the local, uh, uh, uh, vandalism and things of that nature were likely something, something they were paying kids to do or something of that nature. We were not in real danger. Um, it was meant to be harassing us and that, uh, that he was continuing to investigate it. [00:28:07] Speaker 2: Do you recall the approximate time or date that, uh, Jim McIntyre initially showed up [00:28:12] Nicholas James Kasotis: and you had this conversation? This was sometime in late 2017. [00:28:21] Speaker 2: Did you eventually leave your civilian job with the Navy? [00:28:25] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, I left my civilian job in February of 2018. What did you do at that point in time for work? At that point, I believed I was, uh, being employed by a software company that he had connected me to, that Jim McIntyre had connected me to. [00:28:42] Speaker 2: What software company did you believe you were employed by? [00:28:45] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, at, the name changed multiple times over the years that, uh, that I believe I worked there. The, the ending name, uh, was Apis, uh, Apis Limited, which I believe is the Latin word for bee or something like that. Like a bumblebee or a honeybee. [00:29:01] Speaker 2: Do you know why Jim McIntyre would help you find a job? [00:29:05] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, I believed that he was, that he was helping me because of our situation. That he knew people, you know, which is not uncommon, uh, private sector and the government on, uh, criminal, especially cyber investigations often have to work very, uh, hand in hand. And as I had talked to him and I was hoping to find something that would allow me to work from home because despite his reassurances that we, he did not think at that time we were in real danger, I was very uncomfortable leaving Mindy home alone. We had suffered a very serious car accident. Uh, she was, she had a lot of health issues following that and, you know, leaving my frail wife at home by herself when we're undergoing this was something that really bothered me. [00:29:44] Speaker 2: When you were working for this company that eventually becomes APIS limited, uh, where were you working from? [00:29:50] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was working from home. [00:29:53] Speaker 2: So this was remote work? [00:29:54] Nicholas James Kasotis: This was remote work. Where were they headquartered? I believe they were headquartered in Colorado at the time. Though I believe they were incorporated in Wyoming. I saw some incorporation documents and that's not uncommon. Wyoming does not have a corporate income tax. The same way that most large corporations are headquartered in Delaware, uh, because of the laws. What was your role within APIS limited? Uh, I was, I was an attorney, uh, kind of a general general counsel role, though it, uh, it carried with it a lot of kind of other stuff. Sometimes I would be called on to help look through, uh, data, uh, records that were being generated by the software. What was the nature of their business? The nature of their business was AI software development, uh, basically using artificial intelligence software to, uh, analyze data and find connections between it. Were you doing any coding for them at this time? Very little. Sometimes I would, I would be asked to look at something. I, I do have a somewhat of a coding background, but it was not something that I was called on regularly to do because frankly, there were other people who were much better at it than me. I think, you know, sometimes there, there are situations where everybody else knows too much about a problem and, and somebody who's looking at it with fresh eyes can help, but very rarely was I asked to look at any coding. [00:31:14] Speaker 2: Were you still with this company in 2019? Yes, I was. Sorry. And, and that's about the same time that Heather is coming, finally bringing it to a head to collect this, um, divorce obligations that you've failed to perform? [00:31:30] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. [00:31:34] Speaker 2: So when you agreed to pay her one and a half million dollars, what made you think that you [00:31:39] Nicholas James Kasotis: had one and a half million dollars? Mr. Jim McIntyre told me I did. If I could back up just a little. Please. Uh, because, because that year, uh, a lot, the year 2018 into early 2019, a lot had happened. In May, we were asked, we were told to leave our house. He said that there were arrests being made and that, uh, that there was nobody. It was a holiday weekend. I believe it was Memorial Day weekend, and that we would not, he was worried we would not be safe if we stayed there, that somebody might do something rash. And, uh, we, we were terrified. We, we kind of grabbed our dog and we went down to Williamsburg, Virginia. There's a, there's a naval base right outside Williamsburg, uh, naval weapons station Yorktown that has little vacation cabins on. And we, we kind of huddled down there for the weekend and came back thinking that everything was over. Uh, it was not over, uh, obviously. We, uh, things continued. If anything, it picked up pace. The, the money going disappearing, the, uh, the issues with our bank accounts, the issues, you know, with emails, mail, um, vandalism of our house. So we, uh, we were in contact with, with, uh, Mr. McIntyre or man, we knew as Mr. McIntyre again, and he, he started looking for other suspects. He said at that time, it was clear that, that somebody else was doing this and, and he was, uh, he was casting a wider net. Why would Jim McIntyre know how much money you had? Because there was a large, uh, a large sale or licensing agreement that was completed at some point. I wasn't getting paid by this company. I was paid only in stock options. And, uh, I was, I was told that this large sum of money, uh, was being given to me. I believe this was late 2018. It honestly, it felt kind of like a, like a lottery ticket. It was, uh, it was, it was something that, that I had never expected. Um, and, uh, but, but we had real issues with getting a large chunk of money because we couldn't put a couple hundred dollars into our account without it going missing within a matter of minutes, if not hours. So during that time, he, he said he, he set up a trust. He showed us extensive documentation where it would be invested and, you know, care would be taken of it. And it wouldn't be anything that we could touch, um, or, uh, until it was safe to do so. And also it would be thankfully something that nobody else could, could, uh, touch because of that same reason. [00:33:59] Speaker 2: So eventually you go into court in Virginia because Heather, uh, Heather's attempting to get this million and a half dollars from you, correct? [00:34:06] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. And, and, uh, I, you know, we were dealing with a, a, two loans that were both under $20,000 and a, uh, and a mortgage that was about $550,000, maybe $600,000. Um, so this million and a half, uh, was, was something that, that Jim had suggested to me to, to make an offer to her, um, both because, uh, in the lead up, we were unsure if Heather might be, might be involved in what was going on against us. She was one of, uh, many suspects that, that, uh, he discussed with us. He, he went into really great depth in everybody in our life. And, uh, and he said this was one of those situations where if she wasn't involved, I, I would never have to pay her anything. You know, it would all be forfeited when she was arrested. If she was not involved, you know, she had, she had suffered along with us through it, through this, uh, you know, there, there was a, there was, you know, an effect on her life, uh, you know, things that she had to deal with in terms of her employment. So, [00:35:04] Speaker 2: uh, why, why would you tell the judge that Mindy was the impediment to you paying the million and a half dollars? At the time, that's what I was told. And you heard the judge warn you that you better come up with that money in the next week, correct? Absolutely. And what did the judge tell you would happen if you didn't come up with that money in the next week? That I'd be held in contempt and, you know, arrested. Did you come up with that money in the next week? I believed I did. Why did [00:35:34] Nicholas James Kasotis: you believe you did? Because, uh, when I returned home, uh, both Mindy and Jim McIntyre were there. I, I thought I was going to have to go to Atlanta to meet with, uh, Mindy. Um, she had been gone for several days, but, but Jim said that this was, you know, kind of at his last investigative step, uh, into, into Heather, into Miss, uh, Mrs. Thomas. And, and he said that, that she was not involved in what was going on, that he had wired the money. I had a wire confirmation and I had, uh, I banked documents later showing that money coming out of the trust. And I assumed that everything was, was settled. Do you have any of that documentation right now? I do not anymore. Why not? Uh, because we left that house, um, later that year. And I don't know if we left it there or if it has something that we lost [00:36:20] Speaker 2: over time, but, uh, we, we moved a lot. So you say, uh, when you say you left that house, [00:36:26] Nicholas James Kasotis: you're referring to the house in Alexandria? Yes. Yeah. The Adrian drive house in Alexandria, [00:36:31] Speaker 2: the one that Heather and I had purchased together. So the court issue was January of 2019. Is that correct? That's correct. When did you leave your house in Alexandria? I left my house in Alexandria in late October of 2019. And did you leave the state of Virginia at that time? No, I did not. [00:36:48] Nicholas James Kasotis: Where did you go? I went to the Charlottesville, Virginia area. It's roughly two hours southwest of Alexandria. Why did you move to Charlottesville? We were looking at relocating to Charlottesville. Uh, it was an area that we both like. It's more rural. Uh, it's, it's very pretty. Um, and we, we were hoping to live there. Where did you stay in Charlottesville? We stayed at a rental property. Um, and I was told that the gym, uh, within a day or two had rented us a, a longer term rental that we [00:37:20] Speaker 2: could use and that we would be moving into that. Where were all of your personal and household effects [00:37:26] Nicholas James Kasotis: at that time? So, uh, we had, we had three groups of stuff. We were told to leave with roughly two weeks of stuff because that's what it would take for us, everything else to catch up with us. Uh, we had a, a moving pot at the house that, that I personally packed up with, you know, 90% of what we owned. And then we had some things that I was worried were too delicate to, uh, to put in a pod. I spoke, I called Mr. McIntyre and said, you know, I, if I put this in here, it's going to be destroyed. You know, things like photographs, you know, framed pictures, uh, China. And he said to get a, a local storage unit, um, put it in there and give him the key. And then he would, he would help, uh, he would have it moved later on. And was it moved later on? I have absolutely no idea. You weren't concerned at all of your goods? I was very concerned about our things, but, uh, I was told it was moved, but I have absolutely no idea if it was actually moved. And who found your place in Charlottesville? I found our initial rental in Charlottesville. He had found what he, what he told us was going to be the long-term place that we were. And where was that long-term place? I believe it was, uh, Nelson County or it's a little west of, uh, Charlottesville and I haven't been there, uh, in, in a couple of years. So I, I forget the exact name of the, of the county. Now you're still working for APIS, uh, [00:38:48] Speaker 2: limited at this time? I am, you know, 12, 15 hours a day at times. 12, 15 hours a day? Yes. What were [00:38:55] Nicholas James Kasotis: you doing for 12 to 15 hours a day? Reviewing data, reviewing memos, typing memos. Anything other than that riveting work? Uh, no, no. A lot of time staring at a computer screen. Did you eventually leave Charlottesville? We did, uh, the, the night that, uh, that we arrived there, or, or possibly the next day, I was assaulted at the house that, uh, that he had set up as a long-term rental. Um, at that time he had told me that I was being targeted by, uh, by members of my family, most specifically my father, Wayne Kosotus. Did you believe that? I did believe that. Why would you [00:39:37] Speaker 2: believe that your own father would travel to Charlottesville and assault you? At that time, [00:39:42] Nicholas James Kasotis: we had been looking at literally everyone in our lives. Uh, my, you know, my ex-wife, Mindy's ex-boyfriend, a former boss of Mindy's best friend who had tried to assault her at one point, you know, anyone who might have ill will held against us. Um, and, and he, you know, uh, at some point he had come back to us in mid, mid to late 2019 and said, said, you know, I, I have information, you know, that this is, that this is being perpetrated by your family. Um, for reasons unknown at the time, uh, at the time he said he assumed it was financial because of this, this large, uh, this large amount of money that we had received. And things were, things were very bad with, uh, with my family at this point. We were, you know, uh, we, we've, we've always been very close, but, uh, but things were, we weren't speaking. Um, things had gotten so strained that we, we were not in contact at all. Um, he and, and somebody that, that he had put me on the phone with, you know, to talk about kind of [00:40:48] Speaker 2: I'm going to interrupt you for a moment to ask you to try to not use pronouns where it's unclear who you're referring to. I'm sorry. So when you say he can, can you continue and use actual names? [00:40:59] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah. Yeah. Jim, Jim had set me up to speak with somebody, um, over the phone. I'd, I'd been in, in therapy before. Um, and you know, somebody who said was, was a therapist and who said, I showed a lot of signs of, of repressed, uh, repressed abuse, um, at the hands of my family that, that we had, you know, extremely unhealthy, uh, you know, things going on within the family structure. And, and, uh, you know, at the time, it, it kind of unfortunately made sense just because of how, how bad things were. And it was, it was so strange and frankly, so scary at the time we, we had been, I mean, this is mid 2019. We had been dealing with this now for over two years and it was only getting worse. What kind of assault did you suffer? I was attacked from behind. Somebody hit me with something hard. Uh, uh, I, I, I don't know if it was a board or a baseball bat or something, but, but I was hit multiple times. I was kicked in the face. Did you seek medical treatment? I did. Did you make reports to law enforcement? I, I believed I did. I, I made, that night I, I called Mr. uh, Mr. McIntyre and told him what had happened. He, he's the one who brought me to a medical clinic the next day, um, the next, the following morning. Did you eventually leave Charlottesville? We did. We, uh, we were very concerned. He, uh, he started, he told us at that time that, that he was taking over, making all of our rental arrangements, uh, and we started doing, uh, what we would unfortunately do for some time to come, which was moving fairly regularly. Um, you know, packing everything up, you know, sometimes on only an hour notice and going to another house. Uh, so, so we did that for, I guess we got there the beginning of November or the very end of October. And we, uh, we were there until, uh, right before Christmas. There being Charlottesville? I'm sorry. We were, we were in Charlottesville or the, the surrounding areas. I don't know that we were ever in Charlottesville proper, but we were in the surrounding areas, uh, for two months. And why did you leave Charlottesville? Uh, he said that he felt like it would be better for us to get out of Virginia for, for a while. Then after the assault, uh, Mindy also wanted to spend Christmas with her family. Uh, her family all lived at this point in, uh, in South Carolina, the Hilton Head area. I'm not sure exactly where her, if her parents were in that immediate area at the time, but, but her family would all be in Hilton Head [00:43:22] Speaker 2: for Christmas. Forgive me. Pronouns are the bane of my existence. Could you try to use a name, he is who in this? He is Jim McIntyre. Okay. So where did you move to? At this point, [00:43:34] Nicholas James Kasotis: we moved into a rental in Hilton Head, South Carolina. Who found that rental? He did. Who paid for that rental? Uh, I came to learn later that Cameron Nelson paid for that rental. Um, though at the time, I believed he was paying for it. Why did you believe Cameron Nelson was paying for that rental? [00:43:52] Speaker 2: Yeah. At the, at the time, I believed Jim McIntyre was paying for the rental. At the time, you believed? Yes. Why would you believe Jim McIntyre, this FBI agent, is paying for the rental of your [00:44:03] Nicholas James Kasotis: homes? I assumed that he was paying for it out of our own money, but, but, uh, because, because he had access to this trust, I didn't think this was, you know, coming out of FBI funds or anything. Um, Why did he have access to your money? Because he was keeping it safe for us was our understanding. [00:44:26] Speaker 2: So you moved to the Airbnb in Hilton Head. How long were you there? I, I don't know that it was [00:44:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: an Airbnb. It was a vacation rental. Uh, I, I never saw any of these rental documents. So, uh, we were there for no more than a week. Um, and then we, we, uh, were told to move and go to a different rental, also in Hilton Head. Who told you to move? Jim McIntyre. Why? Because he said that if we stayed in one place too long, uh, that we might be found, that, uh, that it was dangerous. How were you feeling at this time? I was frankly terrified. I mean, even, you know, I, we, we, uh, we had our dog, Rusty, you know, bringing Rusty out to the bathroom was kind of a fraud, uh, fraud exercise. I was always worried that somebody was going to be driving by and see us. You know, I was still physically suffering the, uh, the aftermath and, and mentally suffering the aftermath of, uh, of the assault. Um, I, I was, I was absolutely terrified all of the time. [00:45:21] Speaker 2: So approximately, approximately, when did you move to Hilton Head? [00:45:25] Nicholas James Kasotis: We moved to Hilton Head in roughly December, late December of 2019. Uh, it, it was either Christmas Eve, or we might have arrived the, the night before that. I believe we arrived the night before the, [00:45:39] Speaker 2: the evening of December 23rd. And how long did you stay in Hilton Head on this, this, this portion? [00:45:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: We stayed in Hilton Head for just over six months. We left, uh, the second week of June. [00:45:54] Speaker 2: And how many places did you live in over that six month period? I would be estimating, but 15 to 25. You moved 15 to 20 times during that six month period. Yes. [00:46:07] Nicholas James Kasotis: How would you move your things? We had, uh, at that time, uh, a couple of cardboard boxes. As time went on, uh, those obviously get, get destroyed. Uh, and we, we had, uh, plastic bins that, uh, that were delivered to us. Um, and when those would get destroyed, we would get new ones and they would get [00:46:27] Speaker 2: beat up too. Did you have a vehicle at this point in time? At this point in time, we did. Yes, we had my Chevy Silverado. So of those approximately 15 places that you lived in, in Hilton Head during this time, early 2020, um, how were those places procured? By Mr. Jim McIntyre. We never knew when we [00:46:48] Nicholas James Kasotis: would move. We never knew when we would move out. Sometimes we'd be in a place for six or seven weeks. Uh, you know, those were, those were rare, but wonderful. And sometimes it would be every two or three days, sometimes with literally an hour to, uh, to pack. He would say you have to be out of the house in an hour. Um, this is where you're going. This is the code to get in, you know, pack your things. Why did you believe Jim McIntyre was paying for all these places? I believed that, that the money was, was being paid for us. I believe that he was protecting us because of this investigation. How [00:47:23] Speaker 2: did Jim McIntyre get Cameron's credit card information? I have absolutely, let me just finish the question at least, um, in order to, to, to have Cameron pay for all of this? I have absolutely no idea. Did you provide it to him? I did not. But Cameron provided you with her credit card information, correct? Yes. Cameron provided [00:47:45] Nicholas James Kasotis: me with a physical credit card as well as the, the billing address, um, that I believed we were using for, for food from time to time, um, and two initial rentals when we had first left our home. One in Alexandria where we stayed while, while I was packing up the home and then the first one in Charlottesville where I thought we would be. And I, I specifically reached out to her about those two rentals. But, and then, uh, I did not, I did not think that we were putting anything else large on that, on that card. So we did not talk about it for some time. You gave Jim McIntyre access to your financials? I, I gave Jim McIntyre access to literally everything. I, I believed because of the investigation and that it was necessary, uh, financials, you know, my bank accounts, my email accounts, my social media accounts, absolutely everything. And, and, and so did Mindy. [00:48:36] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Tell me the full list, if you will, of everything that you gave Jim McIntyre access to. [00:48:42] Nicholas James Kasotis: He had access to our home. Uh, he had, he had a spare key to our home as well as the alarm code while we lived there. Um, he had all of our bank accounts, um, you know, USAA, uh, and, and a couple others that we had, we had tried to pick up to do that. He had, at this point, our, our mail, uh, we had initially moved our mail to a post office because of the constant issues we had getting, uh, getting our mail. You know, it would just, sometimes for days we would not get any mail. And, uh, and then we would, we would get things that slipped through that said, well, you haven't paid this bill that we hadn't, we hadn't received. Um, shortly before we left, we moved our mail to a, a service down in Florida that would scan it, uh, and, and hold onto it for you, let you know what it was. So, so he had access to that, uh, all of our social media, uh, both of our social media, um, you know, anything from Reddit to Twitter to Instagram to Facebook. Uh, he also had our, our signal. So signal is a encrypted messaging app. I know we've, we've heard a little talk about it. Uh, you can, you can mirror signal to, from your phone to a computer so that you could use either the phone or the computer. He had us mirror our signal accounts to personal, or not personal. I, I thought professional computers of his, so that he could monitor those conversations as well. Okay. I'll ask you to just slow down just a [00:50:03] Speaker 2: little bit to make, just to make sure the court reporter gets everything. Yes, sir. Um, [00:50:10] Nicholas James Kasotis: so eventually you leave Hilton Head, correct? Yes. In, uh, in late, sorry, in, in late, yes, in late May of 2020, uh, Mindy had had a large argument with her brother and, uh, and then a smaller argument with her parents and, uh, said that she didn't feel like she wanted to stay in the area anymore. And, uh, Jim asked us how, how we felt about Charleston, South Carolina. Um, when you say not wanting to [00:50:39] Speaker 2: stay in the area, her family was in that area? Yes. Her family was in the area. Who lived in that area? [00:50:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, her brother, Frank, uh, Frank the fourth, uh, a lot of, a lot of Franks, uh, Frank the fourth, and then his wife, uh, Megan at the time. And sorry, they are, to my understanding, still married. I mean, at the time, because they had a child later. Um, and I believe that Mindy's parents and her youngest brother, Matthew, uh, also lived in the area at the time. Her, her parents, Betsy and Frank the third, and then Matthew, who is, uh, I guess at this point in his early twenties, [00:51:11] Speaker 2: but back then was still in high school. So in that first half of 2020 period, how would you describe the relationship that you had with Frank the fourth and Megan? [00:51:21] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I thought it was generally, uh, quite good though, though, uh, when he and Mindy had their, had their large argument, I didn't speak to them. You know, it's kind of, you know, if, if your, if your wife is fighting with their brother, you don't, you don't talk to her brother. You, [00:51:37] Speaker 2: let, let them deal with it. Um, okay. So, uh, again, I'm sorry, uh, would you tell me again, where are you, where did you move after May of 2020? We moved, uh, very briefly to Charleston, [00:51:48] Nicholas James Kasotis: South Carolina. Why did you move to Charleston? It was something that Jim had suggested, you know, how we asked how we felt about it. Um, neither of us had ever been to Charleston and we said we would, [00:51:58] Speaker 2: we would try it. What kind of work, if any, was, uh, Mindy doing at this time? Mindy was not doing [00:52:06] Nicholas James Kasotis: any work at this time. Why not? She had left her job shortly before we got married. Um, she, uh, and it was, it was not a, a healthy office environment. She had, uh, briefly run an events, uh, company in Virginia. Um, but that, that wasn't really work she enjoyed. It was just something that she did, I think, to, to keep busy. And she had launched a podcast, but, uh, after the first season of that, because of everything else that was happening, she did not do the work for the second season. [00:52:38] Speaker 2: Well, while you're moving 15 times in Hilton Head, who knows how many times after that, um, you'd mentioned strange things earlier. Were strange things continuing to happen to you? [00:52:50] Nicholas James Kasotis: Not, I mean, we, we still did not have access to any of our bank accounts. We couldn't even log into our bank accounts. Um, you know, we, we tried on, on various occasions and, you know, it would say, you know, the password doesn't work. If we reset the password, we wouldn't even get the email. Um, but other than that, like physically, we were not still having the, you know, the damage to the houses that we were in, anything like that. Okay. How long are you in Charleston? We are in Charleston for only a week. Why only a week? Uh, a couple of things. Uh, Mindy had a, Mindy throughout this, uh, this stretch had some, some health issues. Um, I had, she had been very sick back in February and then had, uh, something that we just didn't understand in, uh, in June, uh, was at the hospital for a couple of days. Uh, but, but neither one of us really liked Charleston. I'm not a city guy. Uh, so it was a little, it was a little too, uh, too developed, you know, not enough privacy. So, so we said to, uh, to Mr. McIntyre that, you know, it wasn't a place that we thought that we would, you know, see ourselves longterm. And, uh, and he, he said that he would, he would find something else. And a day or two later, he, he came up with, uh, with Beaufort, South Carolina. You referenced, we'll get to Beaufort in a moment. Um, you referenced Mindy's health [00:54:12] Speaker 2: issues. What health issues was she having at this time? She got very sick in February. Um, [00:54:17] Nicholas James Kasotis: you know, at the, I mean, over the course of, uh, of 2020, I, you know, did kind of extensive, uh, spreadsheets on when I thought she had different symptoms. Uh, she'd had, you know, at the time would appear to be a very nasty cold. Um, but you know, later I questioned whether it might be COVID. Um, and then in, in, uh, June, the week we spent in Charleston, she, she had some sort of a, I don't know what you would call it, a spell. Um, she, she started shaking uncontrollably. Uh, her eyes were, uh, were very, very large. Um, like, I mean, her, her pupils dilated almost, uh, almost to the edge of her eyes. I was, I was absolutely terrified. So what kind of treatment, if any, did she get for that? I was told that she went to the, uh, there, there's a large hospital in Charleston. I forget what it's called. I think it's affiliated with a, with a college or university, but, but I was told she was brought there, that they, they tested her extensively and couldn't find anything over the period of two or three days. And, and she, she was better and returned. [00:55:23] Speaker 2: This is all very passive voice. You didn't take her to the hospital? [00:55:27] Nicholas James Kasotis: I did not. Mr. McIntyre took her to the hospital. This was a concern of ours throughout that when she was seeking medical treatment because of our insurance, because of, uh, because of our last names, that this was going to pop up somewhere that could potentially be used to identify us. [00:55:41] Speaker 2: You say because of your insurance, what insurance did you have in 2020? [00:55:46] Nicholas James Kasotis: At this, at this point, I, uh, I believe we had a Medicaid or Medicare. I had not, I had not procured it. Um, so I am not, I'm not a hundred percent sure. Mr. McIntyre had, had signed us up and, uh, Do you, do you recall what state that? It was in Virginia. We still had Virginia driver's license. We were still registered to vote in Virginia. We, we, you know, he, he told us that we would be, we would, uh, maintain that until we, we settled somewhere where we knew we were going to settle. We, you know, this was kind of a, a moving target to find out where we were going to end up. So who decided to leave Charleston? Oh, we told Mr. McIntyre that that was not a place we wanted to stay long term. And therefore, you know, if we could, you know, a city, especially if you're very concerned about, about your safety, you know, there's a lot more people moving around. There's a lot more traffic, you know, it, it, it did not do anything to, to calm us. So where'd you go next? We went to Beaufort, South Carolina. It's a little town, uh, I guess, probably 45 minutes to an hour northeast of, uh, of Savannah. And how long were you at Beaufort? We were in Beaufort for eight months until mid, mid to late February of 2021. Where did you stay in Beaufort? Again, we, we moved regularly, uh, probably another, you know, 15 to 20 places there. [00:57:12] Speaker 2: And how did you procure those places to reside? [00:57:16] Nicholas James Kasotis: Mr. McIntyre procured those places. Okay. Now at this time we had, we had learned that, uh, that Ms. Nelson was, was paying for those places. How did you learn that? In April. So 2020, uh, it was, was the COVID year. Um, you know, uh, in April she had sent, uh, She is who? She, uh, uh, Cameron Nelson, uh, had sent, uh, had sent Mindy and I a message saying that because her, her husband runs restaurants, and at the time it looked like all restaurants might be shutting down for the foreseeable future, that she would not be able to keep, uh, paying for our rentals, uh, if, if things did not change quickly. [00:57:54] Speaker 2: Did you learn at that time exactly how much money she had lent you up to this point? [00:57:57] Nicholas James Kasotis: I had not, no. Um, I was livid, uh, I, and, uh, it was at this time that, that, uh, we learned that Mr. McIntyre, uh, was not a federal agent. [00:58:12] Speaker 2: How did you learn that? [00:58:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I had a conversation with him as to why this was, you know, why he was charging a friend of mine's, uh, card, you know, why, why wasn't there, you know, either coming from our own money or some sort of official fund, you know, why, why this was happening. And, uh, I made some reference to, to wanting to speak to his superior and he, he, he said, you know, Nick, I'm not, I'm not an FBI agent. Why, why would you think of that? [00:58:40] Speaker 2: Did you continue to maintain your relationship with him after you found out about this? [00:58:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: We did after following, uh, you know, probably the worst argument that Mindy and I ever had. What was that argument about? Uh, he, he moved us, uh, in the days after that to a rental, um, that we were, a not happy with at this point, we were living with Mindy's, uh, Mindy's father and mother, uh, Betsy, Betsy and Frank, the third, as well as Matthew, the, the youngest brother. Um, he moved us to a rental that we were, we were not happy with. Um, and, and, but for the first time, uh, we actually had a rental agreement that showed how long the rental had been paid for. Uh, it was a different company than we, than I think that they were normally procured through. So for the first time we, I, we knew that we had, I forget if it was a week or a week and a half. And I said, I said, this is, you know, we shouldn't be dealing with this anymore. Like we, we, you know, we have a week or a week and a half. We've got to figure out a plan. We've got to, you know, cut ties with Jim. Like I, I feel like I've been lied to for years, you know, but you didn't cut ties with Jim. We did not know. Mindy felt that the Jim was, was our, you know, our, our angel. She said, you know, he had, he'd made mistakes, but you know, we would be in the position to fix all those mistakes. And if we stopped working together, then, then who knows, you know, if his, if his resolve to see this end in our favor was, was going to go away, you know? Um, you know, what would we be doing in the meantime? Um, we actually, you know, she, uh, when I said, you know, I, I, I think we can figure this out, you know, but, uh, she, she got out of, uh, out of our truck and, and walked all the way to her brother's house. It was like five or six miles. [01:00:29] Speaker 2: Did you inquire of Jim McIntyre, why he was doing all of this work for you if he was not with the FBI? [01:00:35] Nicholas James Kasotis: Absolutely. [01:00:36] Speaker 2: What did you learn? [01:00:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: I learned that he was the majority investor in this company that I was working for. He also said that, that he had worked extensively with the FBI. And, you know, I had many phone calls with people I believed to be, you know, even following that FBI agents. [01:00:55] Speaker 2: Uh, you mentioned living with, um, Betsy and Frank, the third, correct? Yes. When did you, uh, first live with them? [01:01:07] Nicholas James Kasotis: This would have been April, right around the time of the COVID shutdowns, uh, the first COVID shutdown. So late March, early April of 2020, uh, Frank, the third had a knee surgery and he, uh, Frank, he was living with Frank the fourth at the time, but given that that entire house is on three levels and the living levels are all a full level up in the air, um, from the garage area, then, uh, he was not going to be able to get up those stairs following his surgery and was not going to be able to maneuver around the house following the surgery. So, uh, we asked Mr. McIntyre to ensure that we had a, a one level rental that had enough bedrooms. And, uh, Frank and Betsy came and Matthew came as well. I think he was a high school kid. I think he kind of enjoyed sleeping somewhere away from home. [01:01:54] Speaker 2: So what was the point where you were living, um, with Frank the fourth in Frank the fourth's home? [01:02:02] Nicholas James Kasotis: That was not until the following February. [01:02:04] Speaker 2: Okay. So you leave Beaufort, South Carolina, February of 2021, correct? Yes. And then where do you go? [01:02:12] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, we go to Frank the fourth's house in Hilton, South Carolina. [01:02:19] Speaker 2: How long are you at Frank the fourth's house? [01:02:23] Nicholas James Kasotis: 16 months. Uh, we leave in June of 2022. [01:02:31] Speaker 2: How much were you paying him to stay there? We were not paying him to stay there. Did you feel like a freeloader? I absolutely did. Why didn't you pay him any money to stay in his home? We had no money to pay him. I thought you have a job with Apis Limited. [01:02:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah. So that job, you know, I was told it was generating money, but we did not have a bank account at this point. Um, we, we did not have access to any of these funds. We, and, uh, you know, we, we asked multiple times for, for Jim to send money to Frank, um, to offset the cost. You know, we understood that, you know, there was food, there was dog food, you know, involved in this. But, uh, he said, he always said he would look into it and then he would always say, you know, if I do this, you know, it's, it's potential that somebody is going to learn where you are. Why did you leave Frank the fourth's home? He filed to evict us from the home. Why did he have to take that step? Uh, I didn't, I didn't think he had to take the step, but, uh, there, there had been a, a lot of discussions about when we were leaving, you know, we would be given a date, then the date would pass. Uh, and you know, I, I think he got tired, he got tired of waiting. [01:03:43] Speaker 2: Um, when did you eventually leave Frank the fourth home? [01:03:46] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe it was June of 2022. [01:03:51] Speaker 2: And where did you go after you left Frank the, oh, let me go back to Frank the fourth's home. Who all was living in Frank the fourth's home at the time you were living there? [01:03:58] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, it was, uh, myself and Mindy, uh, uh, Betsy. Mindy's mom was living there the entire time we were there as well as Frank the fourth and his wife, Megan, and their daughter, Harper, who had been born in late 2020. Uh, I think September 2020, if, if memory serves, uh, at some point, uh, Frank the third also moved into the house after we had been there maybe six to nine months. I don't remember the exact date. Matthew never lived there. Matthew, uh, had finished high school in Dublin, Georgia. And while he visited, you know, multiple times, he then was going to a junior college somewhere in Georgia. When you left in June of 2022, where did you, oh, let me ask, let me go back. Um, [01:04:44] Speaker 2: at this time, when you were living with Frank the fourth, again, was there any of this weirdness, [01:04:50] Nicholas James Kasotis: strangeness that you described going on then? No, no, actually this was the, the safest place we had felt in some time, um, both because of Frank the fourth's background, the security at the house, um, and the, the setup of where the house was located. And very briefly, what is Frank the fourth's [01:05:09] Speaker 2: background? He's a police officer. Where did you go when you left in June of 2022? We went to a La [01:05:16] Nicholas James Kasotis: Quinta, uh, hotel in, uh, actually I think this one was a motel in Savannah for five days. And then we moved to a La Quinta hotel in Savannah. I believe they're both in, in what's called the Midtown area, but I, I don't know the Savannah neighborhoods that well to be sure. Who found the first La Quinta that you moved into? Mrs. Betsy Mevin. Who paid for that? She paid for that first one for those five days. And then I believe she paid for two days at the, at the second one. Why did you move from the first La Quinta to the second? Uh, we were coming up on the weekend and, uh, she told me to go in and book us for the weekend. And when I went in, the, the price was much more than I anticipated it would be. Um, so I, I contacted her and she said, no, that's, that's way too high. And then she contacted the other one and found their prices for the weekends to be significantly lower and said she would come and pick us up and move us. [01:06:05] Speaker 2: Do you know why Jim McIntyre didn't find you a place to live? He, we were very angry with Jim at this [01:06:11] Nicholas James Kasotis: time. Why? Because we felt that he had, he had made this, uh, situation with Frank, you know, untenable, uh, sorry, Frank, the fourth untenable. Jim had made the situation with Frank, the fourth untenable, um, by promising things and then not delivering on them for a long time. And, uh, and we were, [01:06:30] Speaker 2: we were trying to assert some boundaries with him. Okay. Where did you go after the second La Quinta? [01:06:38] Nicholas James Kasotis: After the second La Quinta, we moved into a, into the house at 311 East 65th street in Savannah. Who found that house? I found that house. How did you find it? I, on Airbnb. [01:06:54] Speaker 2: Who paid for that Airbnb? I paid for that Airbnb. You had no income. How did you pay for that Airbnb? [01:07:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: At that point I did have income. I had sold a short story to, uh, to Sony Pictures and, uh, and had, had made a, you know, several hundred thousand dollars. And, uh, we had, we had managed to, to get that, that money. And, you know, one of our, one of our boundaries with Jim was we were going to understand where we lived, how long we lived there, and we were going to pay for it. [01:07:20] Speaker 2: Was that short story fact or fiction? [01:07:23] Nicholas James Kasotis: That was, that was fiction. [01:07:24] Speaker 2: What type of fiction was it? [01:07:26] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, horror fiction, dark fiction. Would you describe- [01:07:30] Speaker 2: Scary stories. I'm sorry. [01:07:32] Nicholas James Kasotis: I said scary stories. [01:07:34] Speaker 2: Yeah, would you describe what dark fiction is? [01:07:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, it's, uh, horror, thrillers, uh, things of that nature. You know, uh, stories, stories that are meant to be scary and exciting. How did you get involved in that? I had read it for, gosh, pretty much my entire life. Um, and then I started, uh, writing it as a hobby. I'm not exactly sure. 2016, 2017. Nothing, nothing at that point that I, that I anticipated being anything more than, than a hobby that was shared, you know, anonymously on, on Reddit. Yeah. Yeah. How did, did you publish those short stories? Uh, later I published, uh, I published several, but, uh, but at the time I was, I would just post them on Reddit and, uh, you know, people, people would comment on them and it was, it was just kind of fun and, you know, kind of an escape. [01:08:20] Speaker 2: Would you describe what Reddit is? [01:08:22] Nicholas James Kasotis: Reddit is a largely text-based website that has little sub-communities on basically, basically everything. There was a, a well-known sub-community on there called NoSleep that, uh, that is people sharing a specific type of scary stories. One's written basically from the viewpoint of, uh, of the, the person that, that is telling them. Almost all, if not all, sorry, uh, entirely fictional. [01:08:56] Speaker 2: What was the name of the short story that you licensed to Sony? [01:09:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: My mother-in-law is poisoning me and then I found out why. What's the name of the mother-in-law? [01:09:06] Speaker 2: Betsy. How'd you come up with that name? Betsy was my mother-in-law. What was your relationship like with Betsy? [01:09:12] Nicholas James Kasotis: Fantastic. [01:09:14] Speaker 2: Um, can you describe the plot of that short story? [01:09:17] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, I, uh, a young woman is, uh, is married to, to somebody and she feels like she's being poisoned by his mother-in-law every time, uh, every time she visits his, uh, his in-law's house. And, uh, you know, nobody believes her and, and over time, uh, it, it all comes to a head. It turns out that the mother-in-law is giving her something to make her sick because the mother-in-law is concerned that the, the husband is going to kill her for insurance money. Um, the, the mother-in-law is, is the hero of the story. She's, she is keeping her safe and sick and in the house so that the, so that the, uh, the evil husband who winds up dying at the end of the story, uh, does, does not bring her out and kill her for money. [01:09:59] Speaker 2: Is the evil husband modeled after you? [01:10:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: No. [01:10:05] Speaker 2: How much did you sell that to, how much money did you get selling that short story to Sony? $300,000. Was that the complete amount that was paid by Sony? No, no, no. [01:10:16] Nicholas James Kasotis: The complete amount was $400,000. [01:10:18] Speaker 2: What happened to the other $100,000? [01:10:20] Nicholas James Kasotis: Lawyers, managers, agents. [01:10:24] Speaker 2: When did you receive the $300,000 from Sony? [01:10:27] Nicholas James Kasotis: Late June of 2022. [01:10:37] Speaker 2: And how did you receive that money? [01:10:38] Nicholas James Kasotis: And how did you receive that money? In what form? Uh, it was, it was sent to a bank account that, that Mr. McIntyre had, uh, had said he was, he was, uh, comfortable with their security, that he was going to help keep safe. It was a Renaissance bank. I believe there's one right across the street from here. [01:10:53] Speaker 2: I thought you told law enforcement that Jim McIntyre facilitated giving you that money? [01:10:59] Nicholas James Kasotis: He facilitated, uh, in that, you know, he made sure that I could get it safely. Uh, he also said that he was involved, the original story got picked up by Sony because it went kind of viral. It was featured on a TikTok channel. I, I don't use TikTok, but, uh, but, you know, it, it got attention there. And then from there, it's spread to Twitter. He said that, that he was working with some, uh, I don't know what you would call it, you know, web, web-based companies that are designed to get a, get attention on, on certain things. [01:11:29] Speaker 2: Um, now prior, you said that, um, you had learned prior to this that actually Cameron's credit card had been used to pay for a lot of your rentals and expenses, correct? [01:11:39] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, that's true. [01:11:40] Speaker 2: So when you received that $300,000, how much of that did you give to Cameron? [01:11:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I did not give any of that to Cameron. [01:11:46] Speaker 2: And why not? [01:11:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: Because I believe that there was more money coming shortly thereafter and that this was the money that we were going to both get ourselves settled with and get, uh, get Mindy's parents settled with. [01:11:59] Speaker 2: When did you move in, approximately, when did you move into the Airbnb on East 65th Street? [01:12:04] Nicholas James Kasotis: Late June of 2022. I believe it was the 26th or 27th. [01:12:08] Speaker 2: Can you describe that Airbnb? [01:12:10] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, it's a, uh, it's a small house, uh, one level. Uh, you, you walk up two or three steps, uh, to get in and then you, it enters into a living, a small living space. There's a sofa along that front wall. Sorry, I'll stop gesturing. I know that the record can't pick it up. Um, directly across from there, there is a small hallway. Uh, in the center of the hallway, there is a, a bathroom with a shower and on either ends of that hallway, there are two bed, the two bedrooms of the house. Um, to your right, there is a, what appears to be a small extension with a, another bathroom that contains a, a bathtub and the washer and dryer. If you continue to your left, uh, it kind of makes an L shape. Though, if you look at the house from above, it is a rectangle because of those, uh, bedrooms. You have your kitchen, a small eating area, and then around that corner, you have another living area with the TV and access to the backyard. [01:13:02] Speaker 2: Can you describe the backyard? [01:13:04] Nicholas James Kasotis: Backyard, uh, it was nice. It was, uh, it was fairly large. It had a chain link fence all the way around. Uh, there was a large tree. Uh, you could, you know, there, there were neighbors fairly close on either side, um, that, that we could see. But, but, uh, you know, it was a family on one side and, and a kind of a construction area on the other side. Uh, and then it backed to a, a lane where they would collect the trash from and people would sometimes drive down it. [01:13:31] Speaker 2: We've seen a lot about a Ford Explorer. When did you purchase that Ford Explorer? [01:13:41] Nicholas James Kasotis: I purchased that Ford Explorer in late July of 2022. [01:13:46] Speaker 2: And where did the funds come from to purchase that Ford Explorer? [01:13:49] Nicholas James Kasotis: From, from Sony, from, from that, uh, from that picture contract, movie contract. [01:13:56] Speaker 2: Who lived in that house, the Airbnb on 65th Street? [01:13:59] Nicholas James Kasotis: Myself and Mindy and Frank III and Betsy. Uh, we all moved in, uh, on the, on the same day. And, [01:14:08] Speaker 2: do you know why Frank III and Betsy were living with you then? [01:14:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: Because they, they had also been told that they had to leave, uh, Frank IV and Megan's house and they did not have a place to go. [01:14:20] Speaker 2: So there's four of you living in this house, plus Rusty, correct? [01:14:25] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, yes, I'm sorry. [01:14:26] Speaker 2: How, I, I, I don't mean to leave off Rusty. How was, how was your relationship? [01:14:30] Nicholas James Kasotis: With Rusty? [01:14:32] Speaker 2: No, between the four of us. [01:14:33] Nicholas James Kasotis: Oh, between the four of us? Uh, for the most part, it was very good. Um, you know, uh, Mindy sometimes had a difficult relationship with her father. Uh, you know, they would, they would have, uh, arguments. And these were kind of longstanding things that went back to her youth of, you know, her youth, her college days, things of that nature. Um, but, but we all got along very well. And, and Mindy was exceptionally close with her mother. [01:14:57] Speaker 2: What were you doing for work at this time? [01:15:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was continuing to work for APIS at this time. At this point, the name had changed to APIS. And what was Mindy doing at this time? Mindy was not, was not working at this time. Uh, I mean, she would, she would make phone calls or things that, that Jim told her to do. And that, that was kind of regular throughout. Um, but, but I believe those to be about our, our situation, not about any sort of work she was doing. [01:15:22] Speaker 2: Can you describe the average day for you and Mindy while y'all were living there? [01:15:27] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I would wake up, uh, generally around 8:30, 8:45. Um, that was, that was generally the time that, uh, that Frank and Betsy would leave. Uh, so that, uh, Betsy could go to work. Um, they only had one car. So Frank would bring her to work and then come home. So he would have a car during the day. Uh, so I, I think I would normally hear them leaving and get up. I would bring Rusty outside to the bathroom. I would make coffee and I would start working. I would take a break to take a shower midday, have a bite to eat. And I would continue working until generally one or two in the morning. [01:16:01] Speaker 2: And did you leave the house during that time? [01:16:05] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, not on an average day, would you? On an average day, I would say no. But, uh, as time went on, we, I, I did leave the house more. Um, but you know, sometimes that I would go out to pick up something that we needed for the house. Or pick up food. But, uh, but on an average day, especially when we first got there, we had everything delivered. And I would go out very little. [01:16:26] Speaker 2: And what about Mindy? What did you observe about her average day? [01:16:30] Nicholas James Kasotis: On, on her average day, she would not leave the house at all. Why not? Uh, she was terrified that, that she would be killed if she, if she did. [01:16:38] Speaker 2: Why was she terrified she would be killed? Do you, if you know, do you know why she was terrified she would be killed? [01:16:43] Nicholas James Kasotis: Jim, Jim told her that, that while he felt that at this point, uh, my family was going to, uh, wanted to get me back in the fold, so to speak. He said that that's why I hadn't been killed in Charlottesville when I was assaulted. But, uh, but he said that, that they viewed Mindy as an impediment and that they would, they would have, uh, they would have killed her had, had they had the chance. But you left the house. I left the house. [01:17:08] Speaker 2: Weren't you terrified to leave the house? [01:17:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was always terrified to leave the house. But I believed Mindy to be pregnant, um, throughout this. And, and, you know, I, I don't know, it was, it was my job. [01:17:22] Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that. Why did you believe Mindy to be pregnant? [01:17:25] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, Mindy told me that she was pregnant. [01:17:28] Speaker 2: When did she tell you she was pregnant? [01:17:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: We were still at Frank and Megan's when she, she said she had taken a pregnancy test and that it was positive. [01:17:39] Speaker 2: Did you see the test? [01:17:40] Nicholas James Kasotis: I don't know if I saw that test. I'd seen a test, uh, before, but I'm, I may have, I may not have. I, I just don't remember. Had she ever previously been pregnant? She had, uh, roughly a year before. Um, July of 2021, she had, uh, we had lost a baby. [01:18:04] Speaker 2: Did the two of you, let's start with you. What people outside this immediate family unit of four folks were you in communication with? [01:18:15] Nicholas James Kasotis: Um, at this point, uh, Cameron Nelson, um, Angela Wynn, uh, sometimes we would talk to, uh, we, we had some, we had some other friends that we didn't talk to as much. Um, you know, a couple of friends of mine from law school. I would contact once in a while, Mindy's friends, Angela and DJ, uh, her friend Elizabeth. Um, but I would, I would say, you know, most of our, our real communications, I'll say, you know, our, you know, talking to people were with, with those, with those people. [01:18:57] Speaker 2: Tell me about your relationship with Cameron Nelson. [01:19:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: Cameron is, Cameron has, uh, always been both a, a friend and a mentor. She, you know, uh, Cameron as a, as an attorney, as an officer, as a, as a human being, is somebody I've always wanted to emulate. I, I frankly think the world of her. [01:19:17] Speaker 2: What about your relationship with Angela Wynn? [01:19:22] Nicholas James Kasotis: Angela and I were always friendly. Uh, I liked Angela a lot. Uh, we didn't, we didn't know each other as well. Uh, by the time I met Mindy, Angela had moved to Tennessee. So, uh, I saw her on various visits, um, our wedding. And then, you know, I would talk to her sometimes online. But, uh, so we, we didn't get a chance to, to know each other quite as well. But, but I, I mean, I've, I've always thought very highly of Angela. [01:19:45] Speaker 2: How did you communicate with Cameron? [01:19:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, through signal. [01:19:49] Speaker 2: Why signal? [01:19:50] Nicholas James Kasotis: Because we were told that our, our communications, especially our communications with, with friends and family should be through signal. [01:19:58] Speaker 2: Are you aware of any communication that Mindy had with people outside the home? [01:20:03] Nicholas James Kasotis: No, um, that's not something we, we would talk about generally. I mean, I, I knew that Mindy talked to people. I could hear her on the phone. Um, sometimes she would mention talking to somebody by name. But I mean, the, the scope of these conversations was not something that we ever discussed. [01:20:19] Speaker 2: Did the two of you ever socialize with people from outside the home while you were living in 65th Street? [01:20:24] Nicholas James Kasotis: Never. Why not? Because we were scared to. I mean, frankly, the only people I thought knew precisely where we were at this time were Frank and Betsy, who, who literally lived with us in gym. Okay. [01:20:41] Speaker 2: Let's begin to approach the time of Mindy's murder. Yes, sir. You purchased a shovel at Home Depot at the beginning of November, I believe November 4th. Why? [01:20:53] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was trying to do some work in the crawl space of the house just to prevent, uh, prevent future issues with the, the mosquitoes that we had been plagued with when we, when we moved in and that, I was trying to find a permanent solution to before we left. [01:21:07] Speaker 2: Please tell the jury about the mosquito issue. [01:21:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah. Uh, when we moved in, there were, there were mosquitoes in the house. At the time we didn't think anything of it. It's, it's Georgia in the summer. Uh, you know, you're going to have mosquitoes. In August, uh, Frank and Betsy had gone away for two or three weeks. Uh, they went up to Illinois or Wisconsin to see Matthew play baseball in a summer league he was in. Uh, and, uh, things got exponentially worse with the mosquitoes while they were gone. I had bought one of those little lamps that attract them and put it in the bathroom where we seem to be having more. And I opened the bathroom one night and there were thousands of mosquitoes in the bathroom. Uh, it really does attract them. But, uh, they were coming up at that time. We realized, uh, that the, the vanity in the bathroom had, when it was installed, they had cut a large hole in the wall that was open to the crawl space under the house and had not patched it up. So they were coming up literally under the vanity. [01:22:04] Speaker 2: And did you attempt to correct that? [01:22:06] Nicholas James Kasotis: I did, uh, I, I did multiple things in, in the house to correct it. [01:22:10] Speaker 2: How did you attempt to correct it? [01:22:11] Nicholas James Kasotis: Temporarily, I tried to just, uh, temporarily I did just duct tape it over. Uh, then we went about trying to seal it in different ways with foam, with, uh, with spackle, uh, at one point with wood, but that didn't work out at all. Um, we were also concerned at, at various points that they were, that the mosquitoes were getting into the HVAC system. Because we would sometimes see them popping out of the little vents up in the ceiling. So I went, uh, one morning I bought a, a, uh, step ladder. And I went around the entire house and I fit, uh, window screens, uh, with tape over the interior, all of those so that if they were getting in somewhere, they would not be able to get out into any of the rooms in the house. [01:22:57] Speaker 2: Tell me around the, about the time around Thanksgiving, what was going on in your house then? [01:23:02] Nicholas James Kasotis: Mindy was not doing well. Uh, her pregnancy, uh, was what I believed to be her pregnancy was, was very difficult. She had a lot of health issues. Um, I was, I was, uh, helping her take her blood pressure every night. Um, I was helping her get in and out of bed. Uh, you know, I, I thought that, that she was really, uh, really physically struggling. And I was trying to, trying to help her and trying to ensure that, that she was okay. That she and the baby were okay. Okay. [01:23:33] Speaker 2: Did you travel out of town over Thanksgiving? [01:23:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: No. [01:23:38] Speaker 2: Did anyone in the house travel out of town over Thanksgiving? Yeah. [01:23:41] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, Betsy and Frank, uh, traveled out of town. [01:23:43] Speaker 2: Do you know where they went? [01:23:44] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe they went to Hilton Head, South Carolina. [01:23:46] Speaker 2: Do you call, do you recall when they left? [01:23:49] Nicholas James Kasotis: They left the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. The day before Thanksgiving, that would be. And when did they return? They returned the Sunday after Thanksgiving. Um, so three days after Thanksgiving. Do you recall the date? I do, uh, I could figure it out. Um, we'll come back to it. Okay. [01:24:12] Speaker 2: The, what were you doing and Mindy, what were you and Mindy doing while your in-laws were in Hilton Head? [01:24:22] Nicholas James Kasotis: Um, really nothing. I mean, I made some food for Thanksgiving. Mindy, you know, had a very hard time standing upright for, for any length of time. So, um, we might've watched some TV. Uh, you know, sometimes we would do that, uh, if we had the house to ourselves. Cause the, the TV was out in, uh, the room. Uh, I, y'all have seen some pictures of it. It's got two chairs in the futon. That was generally the room that, that Frank, uh, the third and Betsy sat in and watched TV. I worked in the other living room that didn't have a TV. It had the couch. So, um, but, but if they weren't home, then we would, uh, we would sometimes, uh, sit in there and watch something if she was feeling up to it. [01:25:00] Speaker 2: And during that Thanksgiving weekend, were you ever away from your home? [01:25:05] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was. Where did you go? I went to look at some apartments. We were trying to, we were trying to leave the area and we were trying to find a place for Frank and Betsy to live when we left the area. Because, uh, we, we wanted to make sure that they were taken care of. We didn't want to leave them in the lurch as, as we thought that they had been left in the lurch before. [01:25:21] Speaker 2: Where did you go to look for homes? [01:25:23] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe I, I looked at a home in, in Savannah and I believe I looked at a home in Hilton Head. But I, I, you know, during this, during this timeframe, I looked at multiple homes for them, both online and in person. So I'm not exactly sure if that's where, uh, that's where I went. [01:25:38] Speaker 2: Okay. Did you ever hear from Mindy while you were away from home Thanksgiving weekend? Yes, I did. What did you hear? [01:25:45] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I got a message from her that she was, uh, leaving the home, um, that she, she was concerned and she was going, uh, going to see, to get medical attention. [01:25:55] Speaker 2: Did you rush home to assist her in getting medical attention? [01:25:58] Nicholas James Kasotis: I did not. I asked her if she thought I should come back and she said that she didn't need, that she was going to be picked up and that she was all right. [01:26:04] Speaker 2: Did she tell you where she was going to get medical attention? [01:26:07] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, we had, we had discussed it, uh, in prior days that, uh, that she was going to be taken to a, a birthing center that, uh, a doctor that, or the man I, I believed to be a doctor who had been seeing her in the home, uh, worked at or was affiliated with in some way. Uh, Mr. McIntyre was comfortable with that because we were obviously, we were very scared, again, about, about the medical issues, you know, with insurance, with, with payments, with, uh, with our location being found. [01:26:37] Speaker 2: So you're still in communication with the person you call Jim McIntyre? [01:26:40] Nicholas James Kasotis: Oh, absolutely. I mean, not just about this. I mean, he, other than Mindy, he was the person I spoke to more than anyone else for years. I, you know, he knew, you know, things, personal things about me, you know, stresses, you know, issues with Mindy's family when, you know, there were the arguments there. I mean, you know, we, we didn't just talk like, oh, you know, people are trying to kill you, you know, how do you feel about that? It was, it was the kind of conversations you would have with, with a close friend. [01:27:20] Speaker 2: Who found Mindy's doctors? [01:27:23] Nicholas James Kasotis: Mindy did, I believe. Do you know the names of her doctors? I do not. Who found the birthing center? I believe that came from Mindy's doctor. [01:27:36] Speaker 2: Okay. What did you find when you returned home during Thanksgiving weekend? Mindy was gone. When was the next time you heard from Mindy? [01:27:48] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I continued to receive signal messages from Mindy over the next several days. [01:27:53] Speaker 2: What were the contents, what were the contents of those messages? [01:27:56] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I was told on, I want, I believe Sunday that I should, uh, I should be preparing to leave again. Uh, this was something that had come up multiple times where, where we were told to pack. And then, you know, a few days later we would unpack. Um, it was a, it was a constant hassle and stress, but I was told to pack, uh, just a, the things that we would need just for a couple of days. Uh, and that, that we might be leaving very, very quickly, uh, very quickly in the future. [01:28:26] Speaker 2: And who had told you to prepare to leave? [01:28:28] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe that, I believe that came from Mindy. Or I believed at the time that came from Mindy. [01:28:33] Speaker 2: Why would Mindy direct you to leave the home, if you know? [01:28:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, because I thought we were leaving the home. Our, our plan had never been to stay in Savannah. That was a temporary spot. And, and I believed that we were going to be leaving in the, in the near future. And I believed that, you know, based on what she was being told, uh, that we would be, that that was happening. Where were you planning on moving to? At the time we were planning on, uh, moving to Missouri. What, what did you plan on doing once you got to Missouri? Uh, have, have the baby and, you know, settle there and, you know, try to, you know, put our lives back together to an extent. You know, we'd get to see family and friends, you know, that we hadn't, hadn't seen, uh, or we had very, uh, you know, we hadn't seen some, some of our friends in, in years. [01:29:21] Speaker 2: When did, well, you already said that, the, um, when did you next see Mindy? [01:29:27] Nicholas James Kasotis: I never saw Mindy again. Why not? Um, I, I got messages, uh, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday that, that I thought were from her. Everything seemed positive. And Thursday said, uh, I received a phone call and was told, uh, she'll be ready to pick up this afternoon. I'd sent her a few messages that hadn't heard back. I assumed she was either napping or, or undergoing some sort of test that she didn't have her phone with her. And, uh, and, uh, but that, that evening, Thursday, December 1st, uh, I was, I was told that, that she had died. Who told you that she had died? Uh, a man at, uh, at a medical clinic of some sort that I went to. [01:30:11] Speaker 2: Where was the medical clinic you went to? [01:30:13] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe, somewhere in Savannah or the, the greater Savannah area. I don't know Savannah very well, so. [01:30:19] Speaker 2: What was the name of the man that told you that? [01:30:21] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I do not recall. [01:30:23] Speaker 2: Tell me about what happened when you got to the birthing center and spoke to this man. [01:30:27] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I was brought back. He was, he was kind of waiting for me. Uh, I was brought to an office and, uh, I, I assumed I was getting, like I had gotten before with various medications or various, you know, tools of, you know, like the blood pressure cuff that, uh, that I tested her with that I was going to get some sort of instruction on, on aftercare. And, uh, and he sat me down and said, you know, I'm very sorry to tell you that, that Mindy passed away very suddenly today. [01:30:53] Speaker 2: Did you ask to see her? I did. What was the result of that? [01:30:58] Nicholas James Kasotis: He said I could not at that time. Um, my understanding leaving, I don't, I don't recall his exact words. I was, I was an absolute wreck. Um, my, my, but my understanding was that there was going to be an autopsy. So I assumed that she was being prepped for that or she had already been transported somewhere for that. [01:31:14] Speaker 2: How did you feel when you were told you couldn't see your wife? [01:31:17] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was, I was distraught, but I, I believed that I was going to see her in the, I believed that I would get a chance to see her. What'd you do next? Uh, he had me sign some forms, um, that I believed were for, for the autopsy, some sort of a release. And, uh, and then I, then I drove home. How were you told she died? Uh, at that time I was not, he said that, that she had died very suddenly, that she had been brought back from some testing and had gone to the bathroom and that, that, uh, the nurse was called away before she was done in the bathroom. And that by the time they came back to re-hook her up to her machines, she had passed away. And that, uh, that that was why no, no alarms had been risen at the time, raised, I guess. [01:32:01] Speaker 2: Um, okay, so you said you drove home from there. [01:32:06] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. What happened when you got home? I spoke to Frank and, uh, Frank and Betsy immediately. I mean, Betsy, I walked in and, and Betsy said, oh my God, is it the baby? Like, she, she could just see from my face that, that something was horribly wrong. And I just, I started sobbing. [01:32:21] Speaker 2: And you eventually told them? [01:32:23] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, yes. Yes, I did. [01:32:29] Speaker 2: What happened after that conversation? What did you do? [01:32:33] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I contacted Jim, I, I believe, uh, shortly thereafter, uh, and told him what had happened. And, uh, and he, he said that he would, he would find out what happened. He said he was so sorry for me. Um, and then, then I, honestly, I think I got drunk, um, what'd you do next? Um, sometime, either the following day or the day after I, uh, I, we had started to, to reach out to friends. Uh, I, I believe I reached out to Cameron and to, to Angela first. Um, I, I met with Jim. Uh, he, he said he wanted to give me the results right away. Could I meet him somewhere outside Savannah? Um, and, you know, I, I assumed it was the closest point and that, that, you know, I would, I would get the news quicker on what had happened. Um, I remember talking to, to Betsy on my way out, uh, because she said, you know, do you, do you think we should be, she worked at, at Hunter McLean at this time in downtown Savannah. She said, do you think we should be looking for, for a lawyer? And I said, absolutely. Like, I am, I am, uh, very unhappy with the care. Like, I, you know, how do, how do you leave a woman who's, you know, who had had all these health issues, you know, alone for any length of time where she's not being monitored? Like, I, I absolutely, at that point, you know, wanted her to, uh, to start that process. [01:33:59] Speaker 2: Did, did you find a lawyer? [01:34:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: No, no, no, we did not, uh, because of my conversation with Mr. McIntyre that day, or the next day, it was Friday or Saturday. [01:34:09] Speaker 2: At some point, did you travel down to the Liberty County area? [01:34:14] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe so. Why? This was on Tuesday, uh, I believe, Monday or Tuesday. I, I believe it was Tuesday based on, based on the other things. Um, and I, I had been told to bring those, those two, uh, the two bins that we had to, uh, to a house. I assumed it was somebody who worked at this birthing center or, or somebody Jim was familiar with. Um, and this was something we'd done before where, where we were going from point A to point B. And, and some of, some or all of our stuff went to point C, uh, in between. So, so I, I brought them down. I, uh, I met with a, with a gentleman and, uh, and delivered them to him. [01:34:53] Speaker 2: What vehicle were you driving when you came down? [01:34:55] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was driving my, my Ford Explorer. It was a 2022 Forest Green. [01:35:01] Speaker 2: Please, uh, endeavor to let me get the question out first. [01:35:04] Nicholas James Kasotis: I'm sorry. [01:35:05] Speaker 2: You were driving your Ford Explorer, and you met with a man. Yes. What man did you meet with? [01:35:11] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I don't know his name. I, I was just directed to go to him to, to deliver this. [01:35:17] Speaker 2: To deliver what again? [01:35:18] Nicholas James Kasotis: To deliver, uh, two totes full of personal items. Things we would need for a couple days. Uh, things that I've been asked to, you know, toiletries, some clothes, shoes, uh, some books. Things of that nature. [01:35:30] Speaker 2: And where did you deliver them to? [01:35:33] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I'm not exactly sure. It was a, it was a house, I presume somewhere in the greater Liberty, Liberty County area. But I'm not exactly sure. [01:35:40] Speaker 2: How'd you know where to go to deliver these? [01:35:42] Nicholas James Kasotis: I was given, uh, an address of a church that I was told to, uh, to use as a waypoint. And then I was given GPS coordinates from there. [01:35:55] Speaker 2: We've heard testimony that at some point your phone was turned off. [01:35:59] Nicholas James Kasotis: Why was that? I was told to turn off my phone, uh, because of concerns that it could be tracked. [01:36:05] Speaker 2: Um, so how did you get to the location without use of your phone? [01:36:14] Nicholas James Kasotis: I mean, Indy and I had a, had a GPS, uh, an older Garmin GPS that, you know, had always been kind of our, our backup if, uh, you know, if you lose cell coverage or something like that, if you're somewhere, then, then we, we kept that with us actually for a long time. Where's that GPS now? Uh, it, that GPS, I believe burned up in my car. [01:36:33] Speaker 2: Where's the shovel you purchased on November the 4th at Home Depot? [01:36:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe that was either gave it, well, I, I know it was either given to, uh, to Frank the third or it was, it was left at the house on, uh, East 60th street. [01:36:46] Speaker 2: We've seen receipts and photos of you buying a Milwaukee knife at Home Depot. Do you recall that? [01:36:51] Nicholas James Kasotis: I do. Why were you buying that knife? One of the screens that I had put in place, the one in the living room with the TV where, where, uh, Frank and Betsy, uh, spent, spent most of their time. Uh, there was something weird about that. It looked like it had been damaged when it was initially installed, but it would, it would hang out, uh, quite often. And I was having a very hard time keeping the netting on it and keeping it secured up there. So I was looking for something that kind of long and thin. I thought I could trim back the, uh, trim back the netting without causing further damage to this and hopefully get it to sit up there. This was, this was one of Mindy's big things was always like every, every place we live, you know, even, even though these are vacation rentals, we should leave it in a, in a better condition than we, than we found it. Are you a hunter? I am not. [01:37:37] Speaker 2: Why would you buy a deer processing kit at Bass Pro Shops? [01:37:41] Nicholas James Kasotis: I received a, a message from who I believe it was Mindy on Monday, the 28th of November, um, and said, said that she'd been thinking about Christmas gifts for her brother, Matthew, who is a hunter at this point. He, you know, that seemed to be everything, uh, everything he did on weekends and, uh, directed me to go to Bass Pro Shops and to buy it. So I did. [01:38:01] Speaker 2: Where's that set of knives? [01:38:03] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe I left that at the property when I, when I departed, I left some things there that, that were kind of upsetting to see. And, um, you know, some of, some of, some of Mindy's, excuse me, some of Mindy's goods, uh, some things that she had picked out. And, uh, and I, I believe that Mr. McIntyre was coming to pick them up and store them with the rest of our belongings. [01:38:24] Speaker 2: Where's the Milwaukee knife that you purchased? [01:38:26] Nicholas James Kasotis: The Milwaukee knife, uh, was either left in my car when it burned, or it was, uh, left in my storage unit in, uh, in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. [01:38:36] Speaker 2: You have a storage unit in Lancaster, Pennsylvania? I do. [01:38:39] Nicholas James Kasotis: What's in that unit? Uh, personal belongings, uh, some excess clothing, uh, some furniture. [01:38:51] Speaker 2: Do you eventually leave Savannah? [01:38:53] Nicholas James Kasotis: I do. Shortly thereafter. I mean, our, our plan had been to leave Savannah in, in the vicinity of this time, regardless. It had been for some time. Um, but I left, uh, I believe the following Tuesday. [01:39:05] Speaker 2: What happened to, um, Betsy and Frank III? They were living with you. Where were they supposed to live? [01:39:12] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, we, I continued to work on finding them a place to live. And that following Tuesday, I moved them into a condo in Hilton Head, South Carolina. [01:39:20] Speaker 2: How did you pay for that condo? [01:39:21] Nicholas James Kasotis: I paid for that condo with my debit card. [01:39:24] Speaker 2: Uh, weren't you afraid that that would give away your location? [01:39:29] Nicholas James Kasotis: We had not had issues with, with the banking information. We, we believed that we had had a leak of some sort with, uh, with an online company that, uh, that we were having something delivered to the house with. But, uh, Jim pointed out that we had had no issues with the billing addresses of, uh, of my banking information, which was either in Atlanta or, or Florida with that mail service that, that we were using again. So, uh, so he, he said since neither of those had been, uh, had been touched, he thought that was good news that, that, uh, there would not be any danger to them. [01:40:00] Speaker 2: What about paying for your Savannah Airbnb with your personal card? [01:40:05] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, likewise, he, he did not feel that, that there was a, he did not feel that there had been any issues with this bank. No money had mysteriously gone missing from it. And given that our, our, uh, billing addresses were in Atlanta and or Florida, he said, and there had been no issues there. He said, this bank is secure and you are not having issues with it. You know, whatever you were, however you were being targeted years ago, you were not being targeted now. [01:40:32] Speaker 2: So you left town? [01:40:33] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. [01:40:35] Speaker 2: And you left Mindy's body behind? [01:40:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I, I was told, uh, in roughly this time that, that Mindy's body had been cremated. [01:40:42] Speaker 2: How did that make you feel? [01:40:43] Nicholas James Kasotis: Livid. Absolutely livid. Why? Because I believed that I was going to get to see her before she was cremated. [01:40:50] Speaker 2: You know, we saw some, um, banking financial records of yours that make it look like you're ping-ponging back and forth around. Can you describe to the jury where your travels took you next? [01:41:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, and some of that I think is just that hotels will sometimes, uh, bill you a couple days after you check out. But I, I left Savannah and I drove down to Jacksonville, Florida. We had a, we had a mail, uh, a mail processing center right outside Jacksonville in a little town called Green Cove Springs. So I spent the night in Jacksonville, uh, and then went to pick up some, some property there in the morning, some mail. [01:41:23] Speaker 2: What did you pick up in Florida? [01:41:25] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I mean, there were multiple things that we hadn't had shipped, but, but the thing that we couldn't have shipped was some beer that had been sent there. [01:41:30] Speaker 2: Who sent you the beer? [01:41:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: I believe it was a friend. Um, I was, I was part of a, a beer, uh, kind of a rare beer group on Facebook, and sometimes guys would send each other beer. [01:41:40] Speaker 2: Where did you go after, uh, Jacksonville, Green Cove Springs, Orange Park? [01:41:45] Nicholas James Kasotis: I started heading towards, uh, St. Louis, Missouri, where, where we had planned to go at that point. And, uh, I spent a night in Alabama that kind of seemed like a, a halfway point. Um, and, uh, and I, I had a, a appointment there the following morning, so. What was your appointment in Alabama? To get Mindy's Ashes. [01:42:07] Speaker 2: Do you need any water? Are you okay? Do you need any water? Do you need any water? Why, if you know, are Mindy's Ashes in Alabama? [01:42:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: I had no idea where, where Mindy had been cremated. Um, this was information I had, I had gotten, um, third hand from Mr. McIntyre. Then I received a phone call from a gentleman who said that, you know, I had to arrange to pick them up. And we were discussing where we would both be. And, uh, he said that he, he could meet me in, uh, in Montgomery, Alabama. [01:42:51] Speaker 2: And what did he give you there? [01:42:52] Nicholas James Kasotis: He gave me a, a bag, uh, that he said contained Mindy's Ashes. It also contained her engagement ring and her wedding ring. What, if anything, did you give him? I gave him $5,000 in cash that I withdrew that morning from the Renaissance Bank in Montgomery, Alabama. Did he give you any additional paperwork? He did not. [01:43:12] Speaker 2: Did he give you a death certificate? He did not. Did you ask for a death certificate? [01:43:17] Nicholas James Kasotis: I asked, uh, at one point, uh, I asked Mr. McIntyre if I could get one. Um, but, um, given that we had no life insurance, uh, I did, it wasn't, it wasn't something that, that I needed for anything. It was just something that I wanted to have and, and I failed to follow up on it. [01:43:35] Speaker 2: You say you had no life insurance. You both had no life insurance? [01:43:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: We both had no life insurance, yes. Where'd you go after Alabama? Uh, St. Louis, Missouri. I, I arrived there the next night. [01:43:46] Speaker 2: What, if anything, did you do in St. Louis? [01:43:49] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I, I did work, uh, for, for APIS and I also filed to change my name. [01:43:55] Speaker 2: Why did you file to change your name? [01:43:57] Nicholas James Kasotis: This was what we had been told would be kind of the culmination of our, you know, everything we were going through. That if we changed our names too soon, that, uh, that our name change would be figured out and then we would have to go through the whole process again. But that, you know, kind of the last thing we would do would be changing our last name so that we could, we would not be found. [01:44:17] Speaker 2: And you saw the paperwork where you changed your name? [01:44:19] Nicholas James Kasotis: I, I actually physically, well, I went to two courthouses because I went to the wrong courthouse first, but I, I physically, uh, filed the paperwork myself. [01:44:28] Speaker 2: Did you, are you the one that completed all of that paperwork? [01:44:30] Nicholas James Kasotis: I did complete that paperwork, yes. [01:44:32] Speaker 2: And you said that you were the victim of domestic violence? [01:44:35] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, I did. [01:44:36] Speaker 2: Why did you say you were the victim of domestic violence? [01:44:38] Nicholas James Kasotis: Because I believed that everything that had happened to us for years was at the hands of, of Wayne, my dad. [01:44:46] Speaker 2: You mentioned an incident in Charlottesville that you believed was Wayne attacking you, correct? Yes. Were there any other encounters between you and Wayne prior to you filling out that form? [01:45:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: Absolutely. He came to, uh, he came to Savannah. He found us in Savannah, um, when we were living on East 65th Street and, uh, came one morning and knocked on the door. [01:45:11] Speaker 2: He knocked on the door of your home? [01:45:12] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. Was anyone with him? Uh, yes. Yeah, his, his brother, Chet, was with him. Do you see them in the courtroom now? Yeah, my, my dad is right there in the blue polo and, uh, my uncle Chet is three people down from him. What'd you do when you saw them at your doorway? I was, I was terrified. Um, I, I, we had had a near miss from a, from a hurricane the, uh, the night before. So a lot of people, Betsy and Frank included, had left, uh, had left Savannah. But, uh, it ended up coming, coming ashore north of Charleston. But I assumed it was the, the home owners, the, the gentlemen, uh, Matt and his, his wife who testified that were coming to check on the house. Just make sure there was no damage. So I opened the door. I hadn't had any coffee yet. I, I, I assumed that, uh, that it was them. And, uh, I was very shocked when I opened the door. What'd you do when you saw them? Uh, I think I said, I said, uh, why are you here? How did you find me? Or something like that. Um, you know, they, they said, you know, that they had hired somebody to, to track me down. Um, they asked if I would, I would come somewhere with them, uh, private to talk. Uh, I said, absolutely not. Um, and, uh, and then I, I, shortly thereafter, I, I slammed the door, uh, and locked it. [01:46:30] Speaker 2: Was Mindy there when this happened? [01:46:32] Nicholas James Kasotis: Mindy was in the bedroom with the door closed at this time. She, her sleep schedule was kind of a mess at this point. She would, you know, sometimes be awake all night because she couldn't sleep. Then she would be asleep all day. But, but at this point, you know, it was probably eight thirty, nine o'clock in the morning. I'm, I'm not kind of guessing, but, uh, she, she was in the bedroom. Did she witness any of this? She did not, no. [01:46:54] Speaker 2: What did you do after you slammed the door? [01:46:56] Nicholas James Kasotis: I went into the bedroom and told Mindy, you know, Wayne, Wayne just knocked on the door. I opened the door. Like, he knows where we are. Uh, and we called Jim McIntyre. And then what did you do? Uh, he directed, he asked, he asked, he asked, uh, details about it. And, uh, and then, uh, he told me that since Mindy had not been seen, that he felt like it was better for her to kind of hunker down in the house with Rusty and that I should, uh, I should meet him. Uh, and he directed me to a hospital that we had, we'd previously identified as a safe place to meet. Uh, we had told Betsy and Frank that if they ever felt that they were being followed on the way home from, uh, work that, that they should go to this hospital. I, I believe it's, uh, it's the chant cantler or, uh, I don't know. It was about two blocks away. Uh, there was always a security vehicle sitting in the, in the lot. He said that there were, there were cameras there. And, uh, that he, so he told me to meet him there. [01:47:48] Speaker 2: Let me go back to something real quick that we heard when, um, Frank III testified. Um, he was required to be out of the house from before lunch to what, three or four in the afternoon. Is that correct? [01:48:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, that, that was, that was following this incident. So when we, when we first got there, we did not have any rules on what we could do when, um, but, but following this, we had a number of changes and basically how we lived that, uh, that were implemented who implemented those new. Mr. McIntyre, I believe he emailed them about them personally. Um, they, they were sometimes an email contact Frank, Frank and Betsy and him, but, um, I would sometimes see these emails or hear reference to them. Um, sometimes they were, I thought, um, unnecessarily mean, but I, I, uh, what email service did [01:48:37] Speaker 2: you use? [01:48:37] Nicholas James Kasotis: At this time, uh, I used ProtonMail. [01:48:40] Speaker 2: Could, could you describe to the jury any unique features of ProtonMail if there are any? [01:48:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yeah, there, there are a couple. Uh, first is that if, if both people, uh, have ProtonMail accounts, then messages sent from, from a ProtonMail account to another ProtonMail account are encrypted. So, uh, so if Mindy and I were emailing notes back and forth to each other or, you know, sending each other things if, uh, you know, if, if we were dealing with other people who used ProtonMail, then those would be encrypted. Even ProtonMail can't read those messages. Um, only the, only the people on either end of the conversation can. Uh, the, the other thing about it is that they are a company that doesn't sell your information. Um, most email providers, as, as the saying goes in kind of a private, the privacy world, if something is free, that means that you're the service. That means that, that they are, they are selling you in some way, either through advertising or much more commonly, they're selling your personal information to anyone who will buy it. [01:49:43] Speaker 2: You seem to go really out of your way to remain private, to communicate privately with Signal, uh, and as well as ProtonMail. Why is that? [01:49:54] Nicholas James Kasotis: Because I thought we were being hunted, literally. I was scared to death for years and years. [01:50:02] Speaker 2: After you changed your name in St. Louis, and that's where you changed your name to start, correct? [01:50:07] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, it is. [01:50:08] Speaker 2: Where did you go next? [01:50:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: I went to, uh, Pennsylvania. [01:50:12] Speaker 2: Why did you go to Pennsylvania? [01:50:14] Nicholas James Kasotis: I had struck up a, uh, online, started as a friendship and then had grown, uh, somewhat flirtatious with another writer, and, uh, I was going to see her. [01:50:24] Speaker 2: You were having an internet affair with a woman that was not your wife, correct? [01:50:28] Nicholas James Kasotis: I wouldn't, I wouldn't call it an internet affair. I mean, it was, it was mildly flirtatious, but, uh. When did that begin? We started, uh, she, she had thought that we had, we had talked on and off years before, and we may have, I, I had a lot of social media accounts deleted and restarted over the years, but, but we started talking in earnest in either September or October of 2022. [01:50:50] Speaker 2: Can you please tell the court her name? [01:50:53] Nicholas James Kasotis: Samantha Koleznik. I'm trying to pronounce that correctly. [01:50:57] Speaker 2: And we saw text messages between you and Samantha, direct messages in Twitter. Yes. Between you and Samantha Koleznik, correct? Absolutely. Do you recall telling Samantha Koleznik that your wife had died some years prior to her actual death? I did. Why did you tell her that? [01:51:20] Nicholas James Kasotis: This goes back to the fall of 2020. Um, we were in Beaufort and Mindy got sick. Um, and within a day or two, uh, took a COVID test and it was positive. This was pre vaccine and, uh, we called Mr. McIntyre. He, he had somebody come and pick her up and take her to the hospital. And I was told within, within a matter of days that she was not expected to live. Um, I was, I was, I was, it was Rusty and I in, in, uh, Beaufort. Um, and we, I was told that I was not allowed to talk to any of our close friends or our, or our family about what was, what was going on. Um, because, uh, a, nobody was allowed to see her. She was in a COVID ward. Um, you know, at that point, since none of us had vaccines, uh, you know, nobody was going to be allowed in. And that, that there, you know, the chances of where I was being identified were, were extremely high. Um, and I, I was, you know, using social media to, to talk to people. I was, I was a wreck. Um, I was, I was not doing well. Um, and I started, uh, communicating with an old friend of Mindy's or maybe an old acquaintance would be the better term. Um, by the name of Joy and, uh, you know, it came to, uh, you know, it, it became much more romantic in, in nature. Um, uh, you know, to, to the, to the extent that she came and visited me twice in, uh, in Beaufort. And, uh, that we had, we had talked that, you know, after, after Mindy, after Mindy passed away, we were going to move to be near her family in, uh, in Minnesota. [01:53:13] Speaker 2: Um, but when you told Samantha Cole Yesnick that Mindy had died, that was in October of '22, I believe? [01:53:22] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes. Uh, following this, uh, Mindy, Mindy recovered, uh, in late, late December, 2020. Um, it was, it was very, very unexpected. And, uh, and Jim was frankly, he said he, he reviewed, he had not been reviewing my social media as closely as, uh, as he had at the beginning. And was frankly, uh, extremely livid with me that I had been talking to people that I didn't know well that I had been saying outside of, outside of Signal. I had been saying where I was, what was going on with Mindy. Um, you know, I was, I was frankly trying to survive. Um, so, so he, uh, we had almost no social media access for a period of months. Uh, he, he, he said that we had both in the past said things to people on social media that, that we didn't know well that, that we shouldn't have. And then, uh, following that, he said, he said he had some new rules for us that, that we, you know, he said that since I had told so many people that I was married, that I had to start saying that, that Mindy had passed away, that she had died of COVID. I told, you know, but that, that was what I told all of my kind of online writing friends, uh, in the writing community. And he said that, that was to keep her safe. Uh, I, I don't recall what exactly she was supposed to say. If she was just supposed to say that, uh, that she was unmarried or divorced or, or if something had happened to me. I, we didn't talk a lot about our kind of individual chats, uh, with other people. Mindy, Mindy and I did not talk, uh, about that with ourselves. So, so that, that became a, a running thing that I was supposed to tell anyone that I befriended, you know, that I talked to more than a handful of times was that, was that I was widowed, that my, my wife had, had passed away. And it started with, uh, it started by saying she died of COVID. And then as she would get medical attention for various things, uh, he would change that because he said, if medical records of where she had been ever leaked, it would look like, it would look consistent. [01:55:19] Speaker 2: So you went to Pennsylvania to see Samantha. Yes, I did. The, when did you get to Pennsylvania? Do you recall? [01:55:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: Mid December, maybe the 16th. [01:55:34] Speaker 2: What did you do when you got to Pennsylvania? [01:55:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I, I had rented a place in a little town named called Ephrata, uh, kind of Lancaster. I think it's Lancaster County. Um, and, uh, you know, unpacked the things that I, that I still had with me and got rusty situated. And then, uh, then Samantha and I went out for dinner. [01:55:53] Speaker 2: We saw a driver's license you procured in Delaware. Yes. Why did you procure a Delaware driver's license? [01:56:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: After, uh, after the name change was finalized, which was January 4th. I, I had filed it in late December. And then, uh, January 4th, I went back to court. I had a hearing before the judge. I explained my situation and, and she granted the name change. Uh, I had started the process of changing other things. I went to a, I went to the social security office, uh, when I was told to in Delaware. And I changed my social security number to reflect my new name. Um, so sorry. I changed my name to reflect my, no, I think I said it right the first time. I'm sorry. So I, I updated just like, you know, women have to, if they change their name after marriage or, you know, something like that, you know, you go to social security, that's your first stop. And you say, this is, this is why my name changed either the marriage certificate or the name change order. And so, so what was once, you know, Nicholas James Kosotus on the social security number is now Nicholas Killian James Stark. [01:56:57] Speaker 2: And how long did it take social security to update that information? [01:57:00] Nicholas James Kasotis: It takes them about, apparently about 24 hours. So I didn't realize this at the time. Um, I left the social security office and went to the DMV in, uh, in Delaware. And, uh, when I got there, uh, that morning I was told, no, this will take, you know, it might be done today, but more likely it will be, uh, it will be sometime. And this was on a Friday, I believe. So it'll be sometime after the weekend. [01:57:25] Speaker 2: What name is on your Delaware driver's license? Nicholas, Nicholas James Kosotus. [01:57:31] Nicholas James Kasotis: I went back that afternoon to a different DMV and, uh, you know, filled out. I had my name change order. I had a printout from social security. Uh, I had some documents that Mr. McIntyre had provided. And then I, uh, I explained the situation. And the woman said, oh yeah, I think, I think this will be fine at this point. Uh, we went through the entire process. Uh, I, she had me pay. She gave me the card. It came off the printer and I said, this is the wrong name. And she said, oh yeah, you know, this is, uh, you know, it hasn't updated in the system yet. So I can't issue you one under your new name. You're going to have to come back next week, but here's your Delaware driver's license. And I was, uh, I was a little unhappy I had paid for it, frankly. [01:58:13] Speaker 2: Tell us about your time in Lancaster County. [01:58:16] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I started going to Lancaster County, uh, you know, fairly regularly on, uh, on weekends to, to see Samantha. [01:58:26] Speaker 2: And did that relationship continue to grow? [01:58:30] Nicholas James Kasotis: It, it did. Yes. It, it was, it was romantic. It, you know, very quickly, you know, grew serious. Um, you know, probably unhealthily fast, um, you know, in, in both our situations, but yes. [01:58:43] Speaker 2: And you eventually got married, correct? [01:58:47] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, we did. When did you get married to Samantha? Uh, April 21st of 2023. [01:58:55] Speaker 2: We've seen pictures of your burned up Ford Explorer. What happened? [01:59:01] Nicholas James Kasotis: Yes, sir. On March, I think, I believe it was March 20th, uh, of 2023. I had, uh, I was driving the Ford Explorer. I had, I had left, uh, the rental we were staying at, uh, driven, uh, north to, uh, run some errands and also to, I believe, picked up a, a cashier's check for the purchase of a home. And, uh, shortly thereafter, I was making a turn onto another road and it started, the car was kind of fighting me a little. Like, it was, it was taking more force to turn than I, than I thought it would. Um, I continued down the road and was smelling something odd, uh, which in, in, uh, Lancaster County is not necessarily indicative of anything but that you're driving by a farm. And, uh, and I stopped, uh, at that point I realized that there was smoke in the interior of the car. Um, I got out, uh, I mean, and, uh, crossed around to the passenger side to get my phone out and, but, opened the door and, uh, the fire kind of just came right up at me. It was, uh, the, the car went up extremely fast. [02:00:07] Speaker 2: What injuries, if any, did you suffer? [02:00:09] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, I suffered, uh, some burns to, to my face. I, uh, I lost a lot of hair, like an eyebrow and, uh, and a lot of hair off the side of my head. I also had a burn to my, uh, to my right eye. It didn't occur to me before this that, that your eyes could actually get burned, but they, but they can. [02:00:23] Speaker 2: What happened to the goods that were in your vehicle? Everything was destroyed. You mentioned picking up a cashier's check to purchase a home. Yes. Tell me about your home purchase. [02:00:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, Sam and I had, uh, had been looking, uh, for places, uh, to live and we had, uh, we had settled on a house in, uh, in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. When was the closing date? Closing date was March 20th. Did you put any deposit on the house? I put a $50,000 EMD on the house. Did you ever, uh, where was the cashier's check from? I believe it was from Citizens Bank, but I did not physically draw the, the, uh, cashier's check. I, I looked at it to verify that the name of the closing company was right, that the, the amount was right, but, and I believe it was a Citizens Bank, uh, cashier's check. Um, actually I know it was a Citizens Bank, 'cause I called Citizens Bank thereafter to, uh, to discuss with them. You say you didn't draw the cashier's check. Who drew the cashier's check? Uh, somebody, somebody that, uh, that Jim McIntyre worked with, who, who he had me meet and pick up that morning. And what happened to the check? The check burned along with my car, bits of me, and, and everything I had in the car at the time. [02:01:34] Speaker 2: What'd you do about the destroyed check? [02:01:36] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, the, I, I, I talked to Mr. McIntyre, I mean, within, I don't know. The exact time, it was, uh, it was pretty shocking. Um, but, uh, I was, I was driven back to the rental by a, by a police officer. And I, I called him while I was still, uh, in the police officer's car to say, I need a new cashier's check. And he said, I think that might take a while. I think that's a problem. So while he was calling about the actual account, I was calling the General Citizens Bank customer service. And, and they confirmed to me that it was a, it was a long process to get a cashier's check, uh, reissued because their concern is they have to honor cashier's check. So they have to wait a certain amount of time after they have issued the kind of stop payment on it to make sure it has not been presented at some other bank. [02:02:20] Speaker 2: Was the cashier's check the only way to make the final payment on that home? [02:02:24] Nicholas James Kasotis: Uh, later on, we learned that it was not, that, uh, that, that we could wire. And, and I received wire instructions later. [02:02:31] Speaker 2: So you eventually wired and closed on the home? No, we did not. [02:02:34] Nicholas James Kasotis: By that point, uh, we had gone back and forth with the, with the owners of the house via, via our realtors. Um, we had, uh, you know, it had been a very stressful couple of weeks. I mean, we, we had, we had utilities on in the home. We had furniture being delivered. That was sitting in the driveway that I was having to pick up and move into storage. It was, uh, it was a very stressful time. And I, I was dealing with physical injuries and didn't have a car at this point. So, uh, so it was, it was an absolute nightmare. And, uh, Samantha said to me, uh, that, that she, she felt like the entire process had been so poisoned that she no longer wanted to go through with the, the purchase of that home. So we, uh, we informed the buyers that we were not going to close. Uh, I, I forfeited that $50,000 EMD and we started our, our home search anew. [02:03:24] Speaker 2: Did you ever eventually buy a home with Samantha? We did not. [02:03:35] Nicholas James Kasotis: We were, uh, we were looking, we were actually going. We had four, uh, four home showings scheduled on the day of March 12th when. What happened on March the 12th? I was arrested shortly after leaving our residence or our rental. Did you kill your wife, Mindy Kasotis? I absolutely did not. I've never put my hands on a woman. I've never hurt a woman. I would never have hurt Mindy. [02:04:06] Speaker 2: Did you strike her on the head nine to up to nine times? [02:04:11] Nicholas James Kasotis: Never, never. Not once. [02:04:15] Speaker 2: Did you dispose of her body? [02:04:20] Nicholas James Kasotis: No, never. Did you dismember her body? No, absolutely not. And frankly, I'm not great with blood. Um, so as, as anyone who's ever given me a doctor's exam can tell you, like, that is, uh, that is not something that is even remotely possible for me. [02:04:37] Speaker 2: My last question is just, is there anything else that you would like to say that I haven't asked you about? Objection, Your Honor. [02:04:49] Nicholas James Kasotis: That, that calls for a narrative. [02:04:53] Speaker 2: I want to respond. His life is at stake. I don't want to make a mistake and not give him the opportunity to say something. [02:05:03] Nicholas James Kasotis: You know, I'm not trying to prevent him from saying anything. The council has to actually ask him a question and not allow a witness to simply just. [02:05:10] Speaker 2: He's testified for a couple of hours. Uh, it does call for a narrative. It's an improper question. Okay. I'll withdraw that question. I have no further questions for Mr. Kosotus.