Calley Means says Trump "has been subverted by people that are beholden to special interests"

[0:00] In last week's midterms, nine out of 10 voters cited corruption as a crucial or major factor in [0:05] their vote for Congress. Late last week, a former Trump White House official named Callie Means [0:11] made allegations of corporate influence against a handful of top Trump officials, [0:16] including now former Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. His remarks were made in a podcast that dropped [0:22] Friday and set off a firestorm in Washington. Means is one of the leaders of the Make America [0:28] Healthy Again or Maha movement and helped form the alliance between RFK Jr. and Donald Trump in 2024. [0:35] We spoke to him Saturday. President Trump has announced that Chief of Staff Susie Wiles [0:41] has left the White House. The departure coincides with this resounding Republican loss in the [0:47] midterms. But also, you went public with some very specific allegations of corruption and a call to [0:54] clean house. Was it your intention to get her removed? [0:58] Yes. I think President Trump has been subverted by people that are beholden to special interests [1:04] and not what President Trump ran on and what voters voted for. I led the Maha initiative at the White [1:10] House. And Stephen Miller said it recently in a speech. The heart of Maha is that we are the only [1:15] primate humans that deal with pediatric cancer and rampant cancer rates. And it's obviously because of [1:21] our environment. It's because of pesticides. It's because of that 70 percent of a child's diet is [1:25] ultra processed food. It's because we're not out in the sun. It's basic, basic stuff. And that, [1:29] I think, was really the heart of the Maha movement. I think a heart of what President Trump ran on. [1:34] And there's very simple things. And Americans voted to change those things. And I think underneath [1:41] Trump's nose, in many cases, you had a group of former lobbyists catering to the vaping industry, [1:49] catering to the ultra processed food industry, catering to the pharmaceutical industry, catering [1:53] to the pesticide industry, and doing their bidding with an excuse that we need their money for the [1:58] midterms and really need to actually go against what voters said, but we need their money. [2:02] Explicitly, that's what they said. And I think that- [2:05] Who's that? [2:06] Susie and her cohort. Susie and Richard Walters, who is actually not someone most people know, [2:14] but was one of the most powerful people in the country, was the de facto chief of staff when [2:18] Susie was getting cancer treatment. Walker Barrett and James Blair, a very close-knit crew [2:26] who explicitly catered to special interests against the will of the voters. I think a lot of this [2:31] happened without Trump's full knowledge. I don't think President Trump fully knew that some of [2:35] these advisers were taking money from the industries we ran on fighting against at the [2:39] time they're giving explicit policy advice. [2:41] Directly taking money? [2:42] Directly, of course, yes. Tony Fabrizio is one of the most powerful people in the country. [2:47] And every single cabinet secretary was conniving on how to convince Tony Fabrizio of their policy [2:53] positions because any policy went through Tony Fabrizio for a political check. You know, he was [2:58] in the White House all the time, every single week. And- [3:01] He runs an outside polling firm that the White House relies on. [3:02] Yeah, but that's a name. I mean, he was one of the most impactful players in White House policymaking, [3:10] one of the most powerful people in the country. He had a huge say in any policy that got done. [3:15] And as he is opining on the political relevance of doing, you know, healthy food and healthy school [3:20] lunches or, you know, taking on the pesticide industry or taking on Big Pharma, which President [3:25] Trump ran on, he was getting paid by Pfizer, by Pepsi to this day. It's on his website right now. [3:29] You can see it on the Joe Rogan podcast I just did. We pulled up his website. It's advertised right now. [3:33] He solicits clients right now and lists those people as his clients. [3:37] So you think all of his polling is compromised? [3:41] I'm just stating facts. [3:42] But that's your theory that you're putting forward? [3:44] Yeah, I'm just stating a fact that we were trying to get a 90 percent support policy done [3:48] of defining ultra-processed food. And he said the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this [3:52] and advised against it while being paid by Pepsi. [3:55] We have reached out to Tony Fabrizio for comment and not heard back. [3:59] Richard Walters told CBS News he submitted his resignation Friday. [4:04] Suzy Wiles told us that, quote, the president did more for Maha than any president before, [4:10] or likely any president in the future. We'll be right back. More of our interview in the next half [4:15] hour. Welcome back to Face the Nation. Reaction to the announcement to Stephen Miller's promotion [4:25] has been mixed, even among a handful of Republicans. We continue our interview with former White House [4:30] advisor, Callie Means. So, RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, who we were very, very close to, [4:37] said, Stephen Miller is the strongest Maha supporter in the administration. It's time to [4:42] unleash the Kraken. What do you take that to mean? [4:45] What I take it to mean is actually an opening for Republicans and Democrats. Unleash the Kraken [4:50] means doing things that matter to the American people. And when it comes to health care, [4:54] these are completely nonpartisan things. I mean, I spent every single day with Bobby Kennedy, [4:58] as you said, probably more time with him than almost anyone. And what he says, what he pushes his team [5:03] on is the exact same things that Democrats are running on. It is taking on corporate capture. It's taking on [5:07] corruption. It's taking on big pharma incentives. It's making our food healthier. That is what he [5:12] is pushing his team to do. So on that point, I hear that you believe Stephen Miller is an ally to [5:17] the cause. But in terms of being an operator in Washington, I mean, he's radioactive to Democrats. [5:22] They're already calling for him to be fired. He was the architect of the mass deportation policy [5:29] that proved very unpopular in these midterms. Why do you think he can actually help you get things done [5:35] on this cause? Immigration, which is not my issue. I will say that a lot of polls said that that was [5:39] one of like actually solving the border crisis. Stephen Miller did do that. That was a core campaign [5:46] promise. That was an existential issue. He is very competent and he has dramatically reduced those [5:52] numbers. So I can speak with most authority from the mob perspective. Let's talk about health care. [5:59] Stephen Miller wants to get transformative things done with Bobby Kennedy and President Trump [6:04] that are not partisan, but structural. He wants to get the same things done that Elizabeth Warren [6:09] and El Sayed and other people are running on. And I think there is a major opportunity to come [6:14] together and get some big things done, which, quite frankly, we have to do. [6:17] You told Joe Rogan that if you're a special interest group, you pay Susie Wiles' daughter [6:22] to get something done. What specific policy are you talking about here? What do you mean by that? [6:28] Margaret, everyone knows, including you, that this is how it works. They know that [6:33] Continental Strategies, their revenue didn't go from $0 to $30 million a year by accident. [6:43] Ballard Partners, where Susie worked, became the highest revenue generating lobbying firm [6:47] in the history of human civilization. That did not happen by accident. These companies that give those [6:52] firms money are not acting irrationally. More people, and I encourage more people to just say the truth. [6:58] President Trump said the truth during the campaign. And this culture that Susie engendered was treating [7:04] the American people like they're stupid. And often, frankly, I think treating President Trump like [7:08] he's stupid. Obviously, Continental Strategies revenue exploding was tied to Katie Wiles working there. [7:16] And what's an example? The fact that Katie was seen in an anti-American, pro-Russian government, [7:22] Republika Sporuska, recently. And then, magically, leaders from that country have a meeting with Susie. [7:28] You do know, though, that there's been reporting that some of the president's [7:31] own family members have their own financial interests and businesses here. You don't think that [7:37] is compromising as well? I think every question should be asked. Sure. I can't speak to that. [7:43] What I can speak to is that I have never seen President Trump have a policy inclination against [7:48] going aggressive on Maha policies. And I can also substantiate that a lot of the things [7:54] that have been slowed down were done under his nose. So after Susie Wiles left, [8:00] Secretary Kennedy publicly said she brokered his partnership with Trump and then thanked her for [8:06] helping to bring in disruptive leaders into HHS. He didn't say any of the things that you are saying [8:12] here right now. I feel very comfortable with what I said. I feel very comfortable with the hundreds of [8:18] calls I've gotten from lawmakers and senior administration officials thanking me for what [8:25] I'd done. Did Secretary Kennedy know you were going to go public with these allegations? No. If you look [8:29] at the recent Maha conference that was just held here in Washington, there were major corporations [8:35] associated with it. Right. Walmart, United Healthcare. And then there were also companies aligned with Maha who [8:43] have money to potentially make in peptide policy changes that Secretary Kennedy has, you know, [8:49] championed. There are other wellness initiatives and people who financially could benefit from some [8:54] of these policies. Doesn't that also risk compromising integrity? Those are also companies to make money. [9:01] Yeah. I can't speak for what an outside group does. I don't think any American thinks that Bobby Kennedy is [9:05] compromised by special interests. Were you comfortable with that? [9:07] No, no. I didn't love it. I didn't love the framing of it. No, it's not my event. I didn't love that. [9:13] You're talking about one small conference in one small group. It was pretty big. I mean, [9:17] the secretary spoke at it. I don't like the optics. Dr. Oz spoke at it. Russell Brand, [9:21] the actor, who's- I don't think any American thinks Bobby Kennedy is compromised. And I think [9:25] every single corporate interest should be scrutinized. But let's be honest, right? Supplement [9:32] companies aren't making Ballard Partners the highest revenue generating firm in the world, [9:37] right? Peptide companies and compounders are not getting meetings with Ballard. [9:42] You have been in the crosshairs of some congressional Democrats who are now going to be empowered in [9:48] this new Congress. They have alleged you have your own conflicts of interest because you've owned [9:53] between 25 to 50 million in stock in a company called TruMed through November 2025. At that time, [9:58] I understand you had a different status. You're a special government employee. Then you became an [10:03] employee, a permanent one at the White House. And some of the arrangements changed. But for those who [10:09] look at that period of time, how can you address what they say are ethical issues that you had? [10:17] Everybody's conflict should be highly scrutinized. I started a company to drive medical spending to [10:22] exercise and healthy food after writing a book about exercise and healthy food. Through that advocacy, [10:28] I met Bobby Kennedy, met the Trump administration and was put into government. I became an SGE. [10:35] And as you said, fully divested that company when I decided to go in full time. We raised around before [10:42] the Trump administration started. So I started a company to promote healthy food and exercise and [10:49] fully divested that company against my economic interests to come into government. [10:52] A spokesperson for Continental Strategy speaking for Katie Wiles told us that, quote, [10:58] Mr. Means' claims regarding Continental Strategy are inaccurate and baseless and said the firm has, [11:03] quote, never met with Mr. Means, lobbied for glyphosate, Monsanto, Bayer, Vapes, Kratom, [11:09] or similar policies. Also that his allegations regarding Katie Wiles' participation in the [11:15] Serpska elections are false, as has been previously reported, they say, by other media outlets. [11:22] We've also reached out to Ballard Partners plus HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy and his aides for [11:30] comment, but we have not heard back. We'll be right back with the final part of our interview. [11:37] And we're back with the last part of our interview with Callie Means, which was taped Saturday morning. [11:43] In a recent interview, you said the administration was blocking health policies that you were trying [11:47] to get past. And you said specifically they were doing it to take money from the sugar industry. [11:54] You also talked about big tobacco. Explain that. What did you see? [11:58] So as last night, like yesterday, as Susie Wiles left, her deputies were still relentlessly pushing HHS to [12:10] find a pathway for fruit-flavored vapes. The issues that came from Susie's world [12:20] were not healthy food, were not cleaning up pesticides, were not these core issues that [12:28] Bobby Kennedy ran on. I had to steamroll any of those policies through them with President Trump's [12:35] support and using outside advocates like Joe Rogan. The issues that were being pushed hard in the [12:45] previous regime were things like vapes, which are a huge donor to Ballard Partners, are things like [12:53] gas station heroin. Marty McCary bravely put a high tolerance, a low tolerance limit on the products, [13:03] which are causing devastation. You basically have opioids being sold at gas stations. [13:08] He was pushed out and that tolerance limit was increased 20x so that there's still an ability [13:14] for people to buy multiple products and get high, which was the direct intention of that policy. [13:20] These are the types of policies that are being pushed, were being pushed. And again, [13:27] we should be looking forward. It's a new day, but that's just demonstrably true. [13:31] The former FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty McCary, resigned in May, and sources close to him said it [13:36] was due to pressure from tobacco companies to make more available what you just said, fruit-flavored [13:41] vapes, these e-cigarettes. But there have been allegations that the president himself, Donald Trump, [13:48] pressed for the FDA to allow more favorable policies for big tobacco because of donations to the political [13:54] action committees for the midterms, that he himself knew. [13:59] I, I, I, maybe that's leaked by Susie. I don't know. I, what I saw a lot is that they would set [14:05] up a quick meeting with President Trump. They would flag something for him. Oh, this is an important [14:08] issue. He'd say something and then they would jam it down, jam it down saying it's a presidential [14:14] priority for their priorities. I don't think President Trump ran, uh, you know, as a primary [14:19] purpose to help, uh, these industries. No, he didn't run on it. [14:22] And I, and I don't think that's what he wants. You don't think. No, I don't from, I, I, I don't [14:27] think that's why he is serving as president. I think he talks to Bobby Kennedy about doing big [14:31] transformational things. And what I know and what I saw is that there's systematic efforts [14:37] working with Ballard, working with these other people to help these industries. This was the single, [14:42] this was the single most emphasized area for James Blair who really led policy. Uh, you know, [14:50] James Blair wasn't, James Blair wasn't pushing, you know, calling me in and saying, how can we, [14:54] you know, promote more healthy food? How can we get more healthy food to kids? How can we, [14:58] you know, talk about these Maha principles? That never happened. I had to, I had to bulldoze to him. [15:02] Uh, he was relentless on helping the fruit flavored vape, uh, industry. So, um, that's what I saw. [15:08] So to that point, so the tobacco company Reynolds American donated $5 million to a political [15:14] action committee backed by Trump a week before the administration rolled out a new tobacco policy. [15:18] Yeah. And that was a big reason why, uh, there was art, that was a big argument from Susie's team [15:23] on why we need to do this. That, you know, I, I didn't hear this specifically with vapes, [15:27] but with the sugar industry, I, you know, it was direct conversations about how we need [15:31] the sugar industry's money for the midterm. So, you know, when you have the midterm strategy and, [15:35] and, and a belief that money, uh, for the midterms is more important than voter promises, [15:39] you're basically able to excuse everything. So the New York Times reported that tobacco lobbyists [15:44] had actually been at the president's Florida golf course with him at lunch advocating to the [15:50] president. He picked up the phone and he called RFK Jr. Yeah. Did that happen? [15:55] I don't know. Uh, Brian Ballard was at that meeting. And I know that Susie set up a lot of [16:00] meetings with Brian Ballard, uh, to, uh, get a talking point that the president supports something. [16:05] Again, I do not think fruit flavored vapes, uh, or gas station heroin is, uh, any percentage of [16:13] what president Trump is thinking about or wants to do. Because there is a pattern here. It was in [16:17] the first Trump administration that the FDA tried to crack down on Kratom, what you're calling gas [16:22] station heroin. They also tried to crack down on fruit flavored vapes. The FDA commissioner at that [16:27] time, Dr. Scott Gottlieb left. And yet in the second Trump administration, these very same issues [16:34] are surfacing again. Are you sure the president isn't okay with it? I am sure that the president [16:41] is realizes that he has a generational coalition with secretary Kennedy. He respects secretary [16:47] Kennedy. He wants to go hard on the issue of improving health for children. I think he had severe, [16:55] uh, uh, poor advice, uh, from people, I think who, uh, treated him like a baby in many respects [17:02] and used him. Um, the president's staff treat him like a baby. Of course they, they would, they, they [17:07] would block access to an, and information to him all the time. I, I would be not surprised at all. [17:13] You know, if they had very short conversations on these issues, you know, where the president's [17:17] extremely busy and the president said, okay, whatever. And then, and then they use, yeah, [17:22] then they use that like, like it's all, it was all like the president wants this. Well, [17:27] Secretary Kennedy has endorsed Dr. Heidi Overton to be the next FDA commissioner. He said she's [17:33] exceptionally dedicated, meticulous attention to detail, strategic leadership to every policy [17:38] she touches. You accused her of writing a policy to relax standards on fruit flavored vapes. I'm not [17:45] going to speak for secretary Kennedy. Heidi Overton, uh, was the biggest block, uh, to Maha policies I [17:52] encountered in the government, uh, on healthy food, on mental health treatments like psychedelics. Uh, [17:59] she was a stone wall and she, uh, really mindlessly, in my opinion, did whatever Susie told her to do. [18:08] Um, Marty McCary was her mentor. Um, and she, in a meeting told Marty and I that, uh, she couldn't [18:16] help Marty if he didn't approve a drug that he sought scientifically should not be approved. [18:21] An mRNA flu vaccine. Um, and, uh, it's just a factual statement that after Marty left, [18:28] uh, partly due to the vaping issue, she drove the creation of the relaxed vaping strategy. [18:35] So in this new regime with the new chief of staff, do you think her nomination is going to be pulled? [18:40] I mean, she's already testified to Congress. She's still got to face the vote. [18:44] My opinion is Heidi Overton should not be, she does not have the character or integrity to be FDA [18:48] secretary or FDA commissioner. A spokesman for Dr. Heidi Overton responded to Means's criticism [18:55] of her qualifications and told CBS News that two former FDA commissioners think otherwise. [19:02] Dr. Marty McCary provided us the following statement, quote, [19:05] Big Tobacco exploited their connections to administration and HHS officials to put [19:10] repeated pressure on me to approve fruit flavored vapes that appealed to children. [19:15] I wouldn't do it. The Kratom 70H lobby ran the same playbook to undermine my efforts to make this new [19:22] gas station heroin illegal. As FDA commissioner, I always rejected political corruption just as voters [19:29] across the political spectrum did last week. Now, we did also contact Susie Wiles, who told CBS that she had [19:37] nothing to do with the tobacco industry meeting with the president at his golf club. In response to Means's [19:44] allegation, James Blair told CBS, quote, I didn't promote flavored vaping specifically at all. I was tasked with [19:52] driving FDA to make its process for approving or denying nicotine delivery device applications [19:58] work the way current federal law dictates it works, which is that applicants get a yes or no approval [20:04] in six months. Cali is intentionally misrepresenting my role and my responsibility because he opposes the [20:12] issue entirely. Even though the president himself has made his position on smoking and smoking alternatives [20:18] very known publicly and has provided clear direction, Cali just doesn't like it. Now, President Trump has [20:27] publicly stated that he saved flavored vaping during his first term to get people off smoking and he [20:33] vowed in his second term to save vaping again, as you can see there. More context and a full transcript [20:41] will be available on our website. CBS News will continue to report on this evolving story.