Brian Tyler Cohen vs Katie Zacharia on Fauci, Blanche, Trump & DeSantis (FULL DEBATE)

[0:00] The only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee [0:07] is to get me to say something, anything, that could vindicate his repeated public pledges [0:17] that I end up, in his words, quote, behind bars, unquote. [0:23] I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution [0:27] to refrain from answering your questions. [0:30] Let's bring back our panel. Brian Tyler Cohen is author of one of the best-selling books in America, [0:37] The Day After, How to Wield Power in a Post-Trump World. [0:40] And Katie Zachariah, Senior Communications Advisor for Truth Social and Trump Media. [0:45] Welcome back, both of you. [0:47] Katie, let's start with you. Republicans clearly frustrated by Anthony Fauci not answering questions. [0:53] Here's some of the way they responded. [0:58] You force people to watch their loved ones die alone over the phone. It's disgusting. [1:02] During the pandemic, you got rich. [1:04] Didn't you? You got rich while people were dying. [1:08] Here I am sitting in front of you six years later saying, [1:11] who the f*** do you think you were for doing that? [1:15] It is similar, similar feelings. [1:18] Absolutely. Look, I lived in California over the pandemic. [1:21] I had four kids. I was pregnant with my fourth. [1:23] And I would have loved to never see Anthony Fauci on that screen again. [1:28] He absolutely, all of his guidelines, closed down schools, mandatory vaccination, mask, all of it, absolutely not scientific. [1:37] And I think history will prove him to be a huge fraud. [1:40] He destroyed so many lives. [1:41] And I can't understand why they brought him forward, knowing that he would just plead the fifth. [1:47] This is where I take a little bit of division from the party. [1:50] Well, that was Rand Paul's decision. [1:52] And I love it. [1:52] He didn't have to do that. [1:53] Yeah. [1:53] I love Rand Paul and his book. [1:55] And he's been going after Fauci for a long time. [1:57] And we knew we weren't going to get answers. [1:59] We didn't get answers then. [2:00] We are not going to get answers now. [2:02] And he's not going to be prosecuted because he has a blanket pardon from Joe Biden. [2:05] So this looked like a little bit of a dog and pony show. [2:09] I mean, it was a dog and pony show, wasn't it? [2:11] Look, absolutely. [2:13] I mean, we know from these Republican senators and how they've spoken that they were just looking for their moments on TV. [2:18] And the fact that they have to do this by going back to 2020 and the pandemic is a testament to the fact that they can't run on anything right now. [2:25] And so they had to try and re-litigate some issue that they thought was beneficial to them six years ago. [2:31] Look, the pandemic is over. [2:33] I think that people are looking forward at this point. [2:35] Maybe that's a controversial statement to make that people actually want to look forward. [2:40] But the reality is that if Republicans had anything better to run on, they wouldn't have to re-litigate what happened six years ago. [2:47] But, Brian, weren't there a lot of mistakes made during the pandemic that people have not really been held accountable for on any side? [2:54] All sorts of mistakes that President Trump made, mistakes that Gavin Newsom made in closing down beaches, mistakes in terms of the guidelines, mistakes in terms of masks. [3:04] Some of it probably made in, most of it made in good faith, people making mistakes. [3:09] But there's really been no moment of reckoning for anybody involved in all of this. [3:14] Yeah, I mean, absolutely. [3:15] If you have a once-in-a-generation pandemic, mistakes are going to be made. [3:19] But when you have a situation like this, where they're trying to trot out somebody who has dedicated his entire life to public health, [3:26] who is invaluable in combating the AIDS epidemic, and trying to vilify him because the right wing needs a scapegoat in this country, [3:33] and, by the way, refuses to look at Donald Trump's culpability in all of this, [3:37] the guy that was standing on national television and suggesting that people inject disinfectant as a way to kill the virus, [3:43] I mean, it puts on full display that this is not a serious investigation to look at what happened. [3:48] This is just a crusade to try and vilify somebody as a boogeyman in the same way that they vilify Hillary Clinton and George Soros and Hunter Biden. [3:56] There's always somebody that's to blame for these problems. [3:58] CMZ's Harvey Levin calling it McCarthyism what's happening against Fauci. [4:02] You're shaking your head. [4:03] Well, but listen, I think a bipartisan approach could be a lot of mistakes were made, and someone needs to be held accountable. [4:09] My kids were told they had to wear masks, so I took them out of school. [4:12] And kids don't learn reading when their teacher's wearing masks and when they're reading masks. [4:16] These are actual things that happen when people are not able to see your mouth, and Dr. Fauci didn't care about that. [4:23] Anthony Fauci didn't care about any of this. [4:25] And one book I would recommend is The Real Anthony Fauci, which I read cover to cover. [4:29] Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wrote this book, and it really talks about why Anthony Fauci should never have been trusted with any of this in the first place. [4:36] And I think there has to be accountability, but there won't be because of this pardon, which is why I called it a dog and pony show. [4:42] But I do think people deserve answers. [4:45] The gain-of-function research was done in a Wuhan lab, and it was leaked, and this was under Fauci. [4:50] This is not conspiratorial anymore. [4:52] This has all come out. [4:53] Fauci disputes that. [4:56] Himself. [4:56] But there's some intelligence that suggests that that is what happened, but that is part of it. [5:01] But we did not get a clear, definitive answer on that today. [5:05] We did get some answers from CNN in terms of a new poll. [5:08] And it shows that President Trump's support is eroding, not only with the general public, but among Republicans. [5:16] Look at this number. [5:17] Feelings about the rest of Trump's second term. [5:20] Right now, among Republicans, just 19% say they're enthusiastic. [5:25] In April of 2025, that number was 38%. [5:30] So an interesting moment, Katie, because I know that there's been so much conventional wisdom about, in 2028, the Republican nominee is going to be J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio. [5:42] But is it possible that Republicans are starting to look beyond Trump at other options? [5:47] Well, as I said earlier, there was a poll a week ago that showed an 83% approval rating for President Trump. [5:54] And then to your- [5:55] Among Republicans. [5:56] Among Republicans. [5:56] Yeah. [5:57] And now it's at 78%. [5:59] But, I mean, look, we know that there has been some slippage, and his overall number is down. [6:04] We also know he's very popular around Republicans, which is why all Republican primaries, it seems like he seems to be dominating. [6:10] Yes, he's dominating on the endorsements. [6:12] However, I think as we look past the midterms, there are definitely some candidates to watch out for, which is you have J.D. Vance, you have Marco Rubio. [6:20] And I'm starting to see kind of the surge of Governor DeSantis, especially in this Anthony Fauci testimony. [6:26] He was one of the leading governors that handled the COVID pandemic well, not closing beaches, not closing schools, not forcing masks. [6:34] And so you see a commentary starting to develop where he's able to actually stand on a state that is well-governed. [6:41] And I think that the Republican Party has three great candidates with the vice president, our secretary of state, and then also a wonderful potential candidate out of the state of Florida. [6:52] The governor of Florida. [6:53] What do you think about this idea that maybe even the Republican Party may be looking to try to move beyond Trump? [6:59] I mean, look, the reality is Republicans have full control of government right now. [7:02] Any one of these other Republicans in any other branch of government, in any other cabinet position, anybody not named Donald Trump also has the power to speak up. [7:11] None of them do. [7:12] They own all of this. [7:13] All of these governors, including Ron DeSantis, who refuse to come out and speak against what Donald Trump is doing, refuse to speak out against these tariffs, refuse to speak out against the war in Iran, refuse to speak out against hiding the Epstein files, suppressing these files, refuse to speak out about the rising inflation rates. [7:29] That puts on full display the fact that they're fine with it, or it's more important for them to pledge allegiance to Donald Trump than to actually deliver for their own constituents. [7:38] So, yes, there is going to certainly be stink, a particular stink on somebody like J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio. [7:45] But, you know, the rest of these Republicans who are going to run in 2028 also have the ability to speak out. [7:50] The fact that none of them are willing to is a testament to the fact that it is more important to show that they are, that they're going to be willing to kowtow to Trump than to deliver for any of their constituents. [8:01] We've got one minute left, Katie. [8:02] Do you think that the governors stink right now? [8:04] The governors across the country stink? [8:06] Is that what it is? [8:07] No, he's saying Republican governors all smell bad. [8:09] Oh, well, I think we're having, across the Democrat Party, I think we're having some major issues with the Democrat Socialists of America rising up, kind of filling in this void that I think perhaps the Democrat Party is missing. [8:22] And so this really off-the-cuff group is emerging and really taking out some establishment Democrats. [8:29] But what I also think is middle America just wants to be taken care of. [8:33] The grocery price is down, gas prices down, and I think that as we head towards the midterms, I want to see the Republicans on my side and maybe for the Democrats on your side. [8:43] But I want to start seeing my Republicans work harder in Congress. [8:46] Politicians are so unpopular right now that there may be an opening for outsiders on both parties. [8:51] But first, we've got to get through those midterms. [8:53] Jon Stewart, we're ready for you. [8:54] Brian, come back, both of you. [8:57] Brian, why not just put this anti-weaponization fund thing in writing? [9:02] Because they have no intention of not doing it. [9:05] I mean, if Todd Blanche and Donald Trump are willing to put his very confirmation at risk for this whole fund, [9:13] it goes to show that, you know, when they say, oh, we're, you know, take our word for it, [9:17] we definitely totally don't have any intention of pursuing this further, but they're not willing to put it in writing. [9:22] And even if that means sinking Todd Blanche's nomination for the time being, if that's a risk they're willing to take, [9:27] it goes to show that they obviously have every intention of the world of making sure [9:32] that he can dole out as much money as he wants to all of these people who engage in the insurrection. [9:36] I mean, why not put it in writing, Katie? [9:38] Well, multiple sources have confirmed tonight, either Fox News, a Fox News reporter, [9:43] and also Daily Wire reporter saying that the DOJ has transmitted something to Tom Tillis [9:49] and Senator Cornyn of the sort. [9:51] Obviously, I don't know what it is. [9:54] In addition, he said in his sworn testimony that this was not on the table. [9:59] Multiple times he said this. [10:01] So I don't, I know that they're saying that this sworn or that that's written transmission [10:06] hasn't been received or sent, but other sources have said otherwise. [10:10] And you think that that's a good idea, that they should back down from the anti-weaponization fund? [10:14] Well, I'm not going to speak on whether or not he should. [10:17] I think right now it's getting him over the finish line. [10:20] I have been on this show. [10:21] Facts behind it and the supporting case of Obama's precedent that he sent with a fund similarly situated. [10:36] However, I do believe that sources have received these transmissions, [10:40] and I actually don't think it's as in jeopardy as people are saying. [10:44] I think it is insane the notion that any Republican, if the roles were reversed, [10:49] would allow a Democratic president billions of dollars to dole out to his political allies. [10:54] If, if any Democratic president had some fund that they could pay off the ACLU and the NAACP [11:01] and Planned Parenthood, Republicans and right-wing media would be apoplectic. [11:05] Or even like in 2020, Republicans were so frustrated by all the looters during the summer of 2020 and, [11:13] and George Floyd and all the people that came in and did property damage and all the rest of it. [11:18] Should those people get money? [11:19] For the people that are looting? [11:21] Yeah. [11:23] This is not what the anti-weaponization fund is. [11:26] These were, these were insurrectionists. [11:28] 1,500 of them were convicted and then, and then subsequently pardoned by Donald Trump. [11:33] Those are the people who are going to be eligible to, to get money out of this fund. [11:37] I mean, this is just his way to, to thank them basically for their loyalty to him. [11:41] The anti-weaponization fund is predicated on the fact that we had unprecedented, [11:46] uh, weaponization of our legal system against President Trump. [11:49] And it gets many people, including pro-life activists and people who lost their jobs. [11:54] And this isn't a personal slush fund. This is going to people who need to be able to fight [11:58] back on the weaponization under Merrick Garland and Joe Biden. [12:02] Meanwhile, there's got some new poll numbers from CNN that just came out today. [12:06] I want to put them up on the screen. Uh, Trump's approval rating right now, [12:09] um, the lowest of his second term, the lowest it's been since January 6th at 34% approved, 66% [12:16] disapprove. Uh, is President Trump in touch with your problems? Put this up on the screen. [12:22] Um, with the problems of ordinary Americans, 27% yes, 73% no. Katie, how do you see that going [12:31] in the midterms? Well, it's interesting, Alex, because just a week ago, I was watching CNN [12:35] where they said President Trump had the highest approval rating at 83% within his own party, [12:40] higher than Bush and higher than Obama. And, and now a week later, he's not in touch with [12:46] the party and he's the worst rated, uh, 78% within, within the party. He was, yeah, it was 83% [12:53] within the party just a week ago. And look, I look back at Ann Seltzer. I'm old enough to remember [12:57] where she predicted Kamala would win Iowa and she lost. She predicted a three point lead and it was [13:03] a 16 point spread and Seltzer lost her job on this poll. So as much as these polls are reflective of, [13:09] of maybe some Americans feeling distaste, the poll has changed weekly. So I don't, I don't think [13:13] it's actual, actually reflective of Republicans' feelings on President Trump. [13:18] I think that we have seen a number of polls where the trajectory is the same on all of them. [13:22] Donald Trump is reaching record low approval ratings, whether it's, you know, any of the [13:28] polls that have been tested lately. And I think that's a testament to the fact that his entire [13:31] presidency is a, a graveyard of broken promises. I mean, this guy promised he would lower costs on [13:36] day one. Instead, he started a trade war that sent the cost of everything surging, touted the fact [13:40] that gas prices were lower. Now gas prices are higher than they've been in years, promised [13:44] that inflation would go down. Inflation's higher right now than when even public enemy number [13:49] one, Joe Biden was presiding over this country. It's 33% higher, promised that there would [13:53] be no new foreign wars. We've been in a war for God knows how many months with Iran now. [13:57] And of course that the Epstein files would be released. And you have a government wide cover [14:01] up of exactly that. So on issue after issue, Donald Trump has shown that he doesn't care what [14:06] he said on the campaign trail. It was just tough to get people's votes. [14:09] Now he's focused solely on, you know, helping himself and his family. And those are the only [14:13] people that are doing well in this economy. Of course, Trump and Republicans don't all see it that way.