Accused Wife Killer Faces Cross After Shocking Admission

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Mr Kramer you killed your wife on July the 23rd 2024 didn't you? Yes ma'am. You shot her four times didn't you? Yes ma'am. Two times in the head right? Yes ma'am. One time in the side. Yes ma'am. One time in the leg. Yes ma'am. At least twice. [00:00:30] Speaker 2: At least two of those shots she had to be on the ground didn't she? I don't recall as I said I just fired I wasn't staring. You sat in this trial and watched all the you've watched all the evidence all the pictures all the testimony at least two of those shots she was laying on the ground wasn't she? Again I don't recall I wasn't staring at I just shot fired. So you weren't watching the trial? Yes ma'am I was watching the trial. [00:01:00] Speaker 1: And this shooting happened right after she got there didn't it? Not right after directly no. How many minutes? It could have been a few minutes it wasn't right directly about maybe four or five minutes. and how long were you zombied out before you called Dolores? [00:01:25] Speaker 2: I was pretty much zombied out the day and night period all day all night. [00:01:31] Speaker 1: Zombied out all day and all night? Yes ma'am. Okay you admitted that you killed her didn't you? Yes ma'am. To Dolores? Excuse me I didn't hear that. You admitted to Dolores that you killed her didn't you? Yes ma'am. And you were there at the house on the 23rd when you were actually supposed to be at work right? [00:01:52] Speaker 2: I left work early yes ma'am. So you were supposed to be at work right? [00:01:57] Speaker 1: Yes ma'am. You walked out early from your shift didn't you? Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. And you thought that she you said you thought she was coming at 5:30 correct? Yes ma'am. But you left work at 4:30 right? Yes ma'am. And you used the gun that you bought correct? Yes ma'am. You had her blood on your clothes didn't you? [00:02:28] Speaker 2: I don't know if it was her blood or the dog's blood. [00:02:31] Speaker 1: She was bleeding right? Yes ma'am. And the dog was bleeding right? Yes ma'am. And you had probably both her blood and the dog's blood on your clothes. Is that fair? [00:02:44] Speaker 2: Could be yes ma'am. [00:02:46] Speaker 1: And be fair that the dog's blood and her blood were on your shoes? [00:02:51] Speaker 2: From what they testified yes they said it was. [00:02:55] Speaker 1: And then you moved her car to hide it didn't you? [00:02:59] Speaker 2: I did not move her car to hide I moved it by time. [00:03:04] Speaker 1: Well you needed it to not be at your house in order to get time right? [00:03:11] Speaker 2: Yes ma'am. [00:03:12] Speaker 1: So you hid it didn't you? [00:03:13] Speaker 2: Not hiding no ma'am. [00:03:15] Speaker 1: Okay well if it's not where it's supposed to be then it's hiding is it not? [00:03:20] Speaker 2: Objection on unanimous. Overruled. No not to me no ma'am. [00:03:27] Speaker 1: Okay. She had sent you a long email saying that it was over on the 22nd correct? [00:03:35] Speaker 2: Yes ma'am. [00:03:36] Speaker 1: And you told your sister about that email before you killed her didn't you? [00:03:41] Speaker 2: I did not hear what you said I'm sorry. [00:03:43] Speaker 1: I said you told your sister about the email that she had sent correct? [00:03:49] Speaker ?: Yes ma'am. [00:03:50] Speaker 2: Yes ma'am. [00:03:51] Speaker 1: You actually told your sister about the email the same day you got the email right? [00:03:56] Speaker ?: I don't recall if I did the same day or not. I do not remember. [00:03:57] Speaker 2: I don't recall if I did the same day or not. I do not remember. I don't recall if I did the same day or not. I do not remember. [00:04:01] Speaker ?: I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. [00:04:16] Speaker 2: I do not recall if I did the same day. [00:04:17] Speaker 3: I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. [00:04:19] Speaker ?: I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. [00:05:24] Speaker 3: I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. [00:05:26] Speaker ?: I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. I do not recall if I did the same day. Do you need glasses? [00:05:32] Speaker 2: I did not hear you. I am sorry. Can I take this out so I can hear you? [00:05:36] Speaker 1: Yes. I will just leave this here with you. [00:05:42] Speaker 3: Ms. Shea, you already have an R, R1 through 9 I think. [00:05:46] Speaker 1: I am going to change it to S then. [00:05:48] Speaker 3: Okay. Number S for identification. [00:05:52] Speaker 1: I will change it to S after this. All right. I came back over here so you can hear me. Can you hear me now? [00:05:58] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:05:59] Speaker 1: Okay. I am asking you to take a look at that exhibit that says R but it means S. Okay. There is two pages. [00:06:07] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:09] Speaker 1: Did you look at the second page? [00:06:11] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:06:16] Speaker 1: The long paragraph on the second page, is that the email that she had sent you on July the 22nd? [00:06:27] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:28] Speaker 1: And then the dialogue that's above it, are your replies to that email to her? [00:06:34] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:36] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:06:39] Speaker 1: So this is the email that you were referencing when you were talking to Dolores in the text messages that you sent her on July the 22nd. Is that correct? [00:06:48] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:06:50] Speaker 1: You had said to your sister at 10:20 on the 22nd. This is Tim. She's not going to come back. She left me a long email. Correct? [00:06:59] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:07:01] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:07:01] Speaker 1: And then right after you killed Rosa, you went to the sofa, sat down, zombied out, and then you started calling your sister, right? Right after? [00:07:15] Speaker ?: No, I did not call her right after, no. [00:07:17] Speaker 2: How long before you started calling her? I believe that before I called her, I had moved the V-goal and then came back home, and that's when I did. [00:07:33] Speaker 1: Now we just heard testimony and looked at cell phone records that said you called her at 6:18 in the morning. Or you started calling her, I'm sorry, at 6:16 in the morning. And then you had a whole conversation with her at 6:18 for nine minutes and another conversation with her at 6:42 for two minutes. But you didn't move the car until 7:40. [00:08:09] Speaker 2: I believe, I guess you're right, ma'am. I just don't remember the times specifically. [00:08:15] Speaker 1: But it's fair to say that you started calling your sister pretty promptly on the 23rd, and then you texted with her all day long. Is that correct? [00:08:24] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:25] Speaker 1: Okay. First and foremost, you did not call the police to report that your wife had attacked you, correct? Correct. And you didn't call the police to report that you'd killed her in response, correct? Correct. Instead, you started texting with Dolores, and you lied to your sister about calling the police, didn't you? Correct, I guess. [00:08:53] Speaker ?: So that's a yes? Correct, ma'am. [00:08:55] Speaker 1: And then you lied to Dolores about reporting Rosa's death, didn't you? Correct. And you lied to Dolores about your address, didn't you? Correct. And you lied to Dolores every time you told her that you were waiting at the house for law enforcement to arrive, didn't you? Correct. And you lied to her when you told her that law enforcement did arrive, didn't you? Correct. Correct. And you lied to her when you told her that law enforcement was there investigating the death, didn't you? Correct. And you lied to her when you said I scratched my face with her nail as she was coming at me, didn't you? Correct. [00:09:40] Speaker 2: Correct? [00:09:41] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. You didn't have any scratches on your face, did you? No, ma'am. And you didn't have any scratches on your back either, did you? [00:09:49] Speaker 2: On the back, no. [00:09:51] Speaker 1: And you didn't have any marks, cuts, bruises, or other injuries on your back, did you? [00:09:56] Speaker 2: On the back, no, ma'am. [00:09:59] Speaker 1: You didn't have any physical evidence of a violent attack, did you? I didn't hear that. [00:10:04] Speaker 2: I apologize. [00:10:05] Speaker 1: You had no physical evidence on your body of a violent attack, did you? [00:10:10] Speaker 2: I had scratches on my chest, stomach area, and then a scratch on the back of one of my arms. [00:10:19] Speaker 1: And you didn't tell law enforcement that those were injuries, did you? No, ma'am. You didn't tell anybody that you had injuries, did you? [00:10:28] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:10:29] Speaker 1: Yet, you want this jury to believe that you feared for your life. What was that? [00:10:37] Speaker 2: I'm sorry. [00:10:38] Speaker 1: You want this jury to believe today that you feared for your life even though you had no injuries. [00:10:43] Speaker 2: I just told you I had injuries on my scratches and on my arm. [00:10:50] Speaker 1: You've not told anyone that you had a scratch on your chest. [00:10:55] Speaker 2: I didn't say anything to the police, period, when they had got me. [00:10:58] Speaker 1: I understand that. But in your testimony with Mr. Benson, you never said you had a scratch on your chest. [00:11:05] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:11:06] Speaker 1: No. In fact, that's not a scratch. It's just a red mark, correct? [00:11:11] Speaker 2: No, it was like a scratch, like a, I don't know what to call it. [00:11:16] Speaker 1: It looks like it. Why? Because you saw the picture? [00:11:20] Speaker 2: Because I looked at the picture and you could see it was like... [00:11:23] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, when you were at the Milton Police Department, you were handcuffed behind your back, correct? Yes, ma'am. And they hit you in handcuffs about one o'clock in the morning? [00:11:36] Speaker 2: Around there, yes, ma'am. [00:11:38] Speaker 1: And you had to sit in that chair, handcuffed behind your back, like this for, what, five, six hours? [00:11:45] Speaker 2: I believe so, yes, ma'am. [00:11:47] Speaker 1: Okay. So you lied to Dolores when you told her that law enforcement took your gun, didn't you? Yes, ma'am. And you lied to her when you said they were taking pictures of your face and taking pictures of Rosa, didn't you? Yes. And then you lied to her again, some more, when you told her that the cops were questioning you about whether or not you needed to use deadly force, didn't you? [00:12:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:12:11] Speaker 1: And then you lied to Dolores when you told her that the cops said you couldn't stay in your house. Yes. And you lied to Dolores when you told her that the investigation was still ongoing and this had been going on for hours. Correct. And then you lied to Dolores when you said that the cops were looking at you and whispering about you. Correct. You lied to your sister about Rosa's dad being at the house after the death and picking up some paperwork, didn't you? Correct. Correct. Correct. You lied to your sister and made up that whole episode, didn't you? [00:12:51] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:12:52] Speaker 1: But you were zombied out the whole time. Ma'am. [00:12:55] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:12:56] Speaker 1: Okay. When this attack happened, you were the one that was closest to the door in the bedroom, right? No, ma'am. You said she was standing in the corner by the dog bed and the dresser, right? Yes, ma'am. You were over by the bathroom door initially, correct? Yes, ma'am. And you kept moving closer to her, right? [00:13:20] Speaker 2: I moved up from the, to the back of the bedroom was up to the area where the dresser was. [00:13:28] Speaker 1: Your testimony was that she slammed her hand down on the white dresser or the brown dresser? The white. [00:13:34] Speaker 2: The white. [00:13:35] Speaker 1: And you said that the gun, this gun was on the white dresser? No, ma'am. [00:13:39] Speaker 2: The brown dresser. [00:13:40] Speaker 1: It was on the brown dresser. But you moved closer to it because you wanted to try to get to it first. No, ma'am. No. She moved up closer to it, so you moved up closer to it is what you said. Right? [00:14:18] Speaker 2: I did not hear that. I apologize. [00:14:21] Speaker 1: I said she moved closer to it, so you moved closer to it, correct? That's what you said? [00:14:27] Speaker 2: She moved closer because she was already near it more closer than I was, but I moved up to a little bit yesterday. [00:14:36] Speaker 1: Well, she was shot while she was standing in the corner or laying in the corner of the room, wasn't she? [00:14:44] Speaker 2: Again, I don't remember. I just fired. [00:14:47] Speaker 1: Well, you didn't pick her up and move her, did you? No, ma'am. [00:14:50] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:14:51] Speaker 1: So that's where she stopped. That's where she landed, right? Yes, ma'am. So that's where she had to be, right? Apparently, yes, ma'am. [00:14:58] Speaker 2: Apparently, yes, ma'am. [00:14:59] Speaker 1: So then you had to be closer to the door than she was, right? [00:15:02] Speaker 2: Somewhat, yes, ma'am. [00:15:05] Speaker 1: Okay. From that position, she couldn't get out of the door, could she? No, ma'am. After this, you thought about staging a self-defense scene by putting a knife in her hand, didn't you? [00:15:24] Speaker 2: Did I think about it? No. [00:15:26] Speaker 1: No, you just told your sister that, right? [00:15:29] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:15:30] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:15:32] Speaker 1: And then you lied to Lisa, Rosa's sister, by pretending to be Rosa, right? Ma'am. Telling Lisa that Rosa was at the beach having a cocktail. [00:15:44] Speaker 2: Ma'am. [00:15:45] Speaker 1: Even though you weren't, even though you knew Rosa was not at the beach having a cocktail, right? Ma'am. And you knew that she wasn't soaking in the sun trying to clear her head, right? [00:15:55] Speaker ?: Ma'am. [00:15:56] Speaker 1: So you lied to Lisa, and then you lied to the cop who talked to you in the doorway at Dolores' apartment, didn't you? [00:16:07] Speaker 2: I believe ma'am. [00:16:10] Speaker 1: I mean, that probably did freak you out when Milton Petey knocked on Dolores' door looking for you, right? Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:18] Speaker 3: Speak up, sir. You need to keep your voice up. [00:16:22] Speaker 1: But you told that officer that you hadn't seen Rosa, didn't you? [00:16:26] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:16:28] Speaker 1: And that was a lie, wasn't it? [00:16:30] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:16:31] Speaker 1: And then you told him that you hadn't talked to her in a week, didn't you? [00:16:35] Speaker 2: I believe so, yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:16:37] Speaker 1: And that was a lie, right? Ma'am. And you told him that if you knew where she was, you would tell him, right? [00:16:44] Speaker 2: I believe so, ma'am. [00:16:46] Speaker 1: But that was a lie, right? Ma'am. [00:16:49] Speaker 3: Hold on a second. Okay. Are you saying ma'am when she asked her question? I can't tell if you're responding yes or no. [00:16:56] Speaker 2: I'm responding. Responding yes, sir. [00:16:59] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:16:59] Speaker 3: All right. I just can't. I just heard ma'am. So just keep your voice up for us. Okay? [00:17:04] Speaker ?: Yes, sir. [00:17:04] Speaker 2: I apologize. [00:17:05] Speaker 3: No, that's all right. You don't have to apologize. I don't have to apologize. [00:17:08] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:17:09] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Yes. In the days preceding her death, you had been doing nothing but trying to get Rosa to talk to you. Isn't that true? [00:17:19] Speaker 2: Try to get her to talk to me so we could try to work out what we had going on. [00:17:23] Speaker 1: So you were trying over and over and over again to get her to talk to you, weren't you? [00:17:28] Speaker 2: Ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:17:30] Speaker 1: Sorry. And you lied to Rosa in your messages to her when you told her you weren't going to be there the morning of the 23rd, didn't you? [00:17:39] Speaker 2: Don't recall. [00:17:42] Speaker 1: Well, you were there though, weren't you? I was at the house. [00:17:48] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:17:49] Speaker 1: And today you want this jury to believe your story. Yes, ma'am. You're responsible for her death, aren't you? Ma'am. [00:17:59] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:18:00] Speaker 1: And you know that the only way you don't go to jail is if they believe you, right? [00:18:06] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:18:08] Speaker 1: Stay. Yes, ma'am. [00:18:10] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:18:11] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [00:22:43] Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, for the record, I'm going to sustain the objection, and I want to reiterate to you, and you will hear this in jury instructions, that it's the state's burden to prove the accusations against the defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. And as the defendant, okay? I want to ask additional questions, okay? But before we do that, I understand someone needs to use or have a restroom break. So we're going to take a quick break, about five minutes, and then we're going to come right back in. Thank you everyone. Please be seated. Have the record of cleric. The state's here with counsel and the pendants here with his counsel. Y'all ready to proceed? All right, great. We are on cross-examination by the state. You may continue, Ms. Shea. [00:24:03] Speaker 1: On the 23rd of July, you were very worried about being arrested and going to jail, weren't you? [00:24:12] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:24:13] Speaker 1: In fact, you told Dolores five to ten times you weren't going to jail, right? [00:24:19] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:24:20] Speaker 1: And that's why you got mad at her when she told you that she'd told Samantha about all of this, whoever Samantha Grace is. [00:24:31] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:24:36] Speaker 1: That's why you wanted to run to her house to hide, right, to stay out of jail? [00:24:40] Speaker 2: I was not trying to hide, no ma'am. I was trying to figure out what to do. [00:24:48] Speaker 1: You told her in the text messages, okay, so no matter what happens, you're still going to hide me and no one will turn me in, right? [00:25:14] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:15] Speaker 1: So you wanted to go hide at her house, didn't you? [00:25:20] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:26] Speaker 1: On the 23rd, you didn't believe this was self-defense either, did you? [00:25:32] Speaker 2: I believe it was. [00:25:36] Speaker 1: You told your sister, you told your sister, she had to show deadly force under the law and she did not. Didn't you tell her that? [00:25:42] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:44] Speaker 1: No, you didn't? [00:25:46] Speaker 2: I said, yes, ma'am. [00:25:47] Speaker 1: Okay. And that's why you never reported it to the police, because you didn't believe it yourself, did you? [00:25:54] Speaker 2: I didn't report it, but I did believe it was self. [00:26:00] Speaker 1: I don't have any other questions. [00:26:03] Speaker 3: All right, thank you. Redirect, Mr. Gosh, it's been a long day. Mr. Benson, yes, thank you. No redirects, thank you, Judge. Thank you, sir. Mr. Kramer, you can stand down, sir, and have a seat next to your attorney, okay? Yes, sir.