Accused Wife Killer Admits He Doesn’t Know If He Pulled the Trigger

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Please rise to the jury. I could please be seated. [00:00:30] Speaker 2: Thank you. [00:00:40] Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Mr. Hildebrandt. I want to start by talking about Soraya. You referred to her as your wife regularly. Do you mind if I call her by her name? [00:00:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:00:57] Speaker 1: I'd say she was indifferent to it. [00:01:04] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:01:05] Speaker 1: She liked her job at Bread and Brew? Indifferent to it. [00:01:08] Speaker 3: She liked some days, didn't like some days. Okay. [00:01:11] Speaker ?: She had close friends? [00:01:11] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:01:12] Speaker 1: Okay. Marie was one of them? Yes, ma'am. [00:01:14] Speaker 3: She had friends that were close at work? [00:01:15] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Okay. Okay. Her and Marie went out together regularly? Yes, ma'am. [00:01:25] Speaker 3: They went to the gym together? [00:01:26] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. They talked every day? [00:01:28] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:01:29] Speaker 1: They went paddle boarding, kayaking, had bonfires? Yes, ma'am. [00:01:36] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:01:37] Speaker 1: Okay. Soraya was planning for her future? [00:01:41] Speaker 3: Starting to. [00:01:42] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:01:43] Speaker 3: She had enrolled in school? [00:01:44] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. She wanted to be a combat medic? [00:01:46] Speaker 3: I don't think she wanted to be a combat medic, but it was a stepping stone towards what she wanted to do. [00:01:54] Speaker 1: Which was what? [00:01:55] Speaker 3: An anesthesiologist. [00:01:56] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:01:57] Speaker 3: Big dreams? Essentially. [00:01:59] Speaker 1: Okay. She was generally a happy person? Yes, ma'am. Okay. She was close with her mom? Yes, ma'am. Talked to her daily or every other day? [00:02:09] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:02:10] Speaker 1: Okay. Her family had a trip that was planned to come up and visit in just a couple of weeks? Yes, ma'am. She was excited about that? [00:02:19] Speaker 3: She was. [00:02:20] Speaker 1: She was planning for things to do with them? Yes. [00:02:23] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:02:24] Speaker 1: And on the night of your birthday and her death, your relationship was okay. [00:02:31] Speaker 3: It was good. [00:02:33] Speaker 1: Good. She got decorations for your birthday party? Mm-hmm. She made you a cake out of beer? [00:02:41] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:02:42] Speaker 1: Okay. You were angry with her about that? [00:02:45] Speaker 3: No, I wasn't angry. I was upset. Okay. [00:02:48] Speaker 1: So she did something nice for you and you were upset about it? [00:02:51] Speaker 3: I think you're taking it out of context. I think I already told her that I didn't want a big deal. Uh-huh. And she made a bigger deal than I wanted it to be. [00:03:00] Speaker 1: Okay. So you were upset that she got you some decorations? Yes. Okay. But you all worked through that? Yes, ma'am. And you went out and you were happy that night? Yes, ma'am. Okay. To put the relationship in context, you were newlyweds? We were married for eight months. [00:03:15] Speaker 3: Okay. Less than a year? [00:03:17] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:18] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:03:19] Speaker 1: And you didn't live together before you were married? No, ma'am. [00:03:22] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:03:23] Speaker 1: And you met at basic training? Yes, ma'am. And you lived separately after basic training? Yes, ma'am. Long distance relationship? Yes, ma'am. And the first time you lived together was when she moved up in February? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you were already engaged in this online relationship with Charlotte by February? [00:03:46] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:03:47] Speaker 1: Well, you talked about it starting when you went to the field in February or March? [00:03:51] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Who's Charlotte? [00:03:53] Speaker 1: Or, I'm sorry, Cheyenne. Cheyenne, you were already engaged in this relationship when you went to the field in February? Yes, ma'am. After your brand new bride had just moved with you? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you continued that through March and April? Yes, ma'am. And Soraya found out about it? She did. And she forgave you? Yes. You gave each other your passwords to your phone? [00:04:23] Speaker 3: She already had those before this, but yeah. Okay. [00:04:26] Speaker 1: But you didn't stop talking to Cheyenne? I did not. [00:04:29] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:04:30] Speaker 1: Okay. But she didn't bring it up again until the evening of your birthday? [00:04:36] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:04:37] Speaker 1: Did she bring it up prior to the evening of your birthday? [00:04:40] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. [00:04:40] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:04:41] Speaker 1: So, as far as you're concerned, everything in your relationship with Soraya was good? Yes, ma'am. [00:04:46] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:04:48] Speaker 1: I want to talk about the guns in question. The SIG Sawyer belonged to you? [00:04:54] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:04:55] Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. And had you gotten that gun recently? [00:04:59] Speaker 3: I had three or four months previously. Okay. [00:05:03] Speaker 1: You were searching the features of that gun before you went out that day, right? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You spent some time online, about 3:50 in the afternoon, looking at that gun? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You were looking at other guns that day, too? [00:05:17] Speaker 3: I was. [00:05:18] Speaker 1: Springfield XDs? [00:05:19] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:05:20] Speaker 1: You were looking at different armories? I was. Okay. And then the Glock was a gun you were holding for who? [00:05:27] Speaker 3: Just someone I was in the army with. [00:05:29] Speaker 1: You don't know their name? [00:05:30] Speaker 3: Not anymore. [00:05:33] Speaker 1: Okay. Neither of those guns belonged to Soraya? [00:05:37] Speaker 3: No. [00:05:38] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:05:39] Speaker 1: You both went through basic training? [00:05:41] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:05:42] Speaker 1: So you have some familiarity with guns? [00:05:44] Speaker 3: With rifles. [00:05:45] Speaker 1: With, primarily in basic you deal with rifles, right? Yes, ma'am. But you said Soraya had shot the Sig Sawyer? [00:05:52] Speaker 3: Shot a similar Sig Sauer in the National Guard. Okay. [00:05:58] Speaker 1: So she had familiarity with handguns? Yes, ma'am. Okay. As did you? [00:06:03] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. [00:06:05] Speaker 1: And did you have specialized training with handguns? [00:06:09] Speaker 3: I did not. [00:06:10] Speaker 1: Did she? [00:06:11] Speaker 3: I don't know what you consider specialized training, but I never qualified with a handgun and she did. [00:06:18] Speaker 1: She did? Yes. Okay. So, I want to talk to you a little bit about some of your testimony. You were asked probably no fewer than 15 times the emotions you were feeling after you found your wife dead and dumped her body. You described deception, right? [00:06:44] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:45] Speaker 1: You described guilt. Yes, ma'am. You described disgust. Yes, ma'am. You described shame. Yes, ma'am. You described anger at yourself. Yes, ma'am. You described betrayal. Yes, ma'am. You described fear. Yes, ma'am. Substantial fear. Yes, ma'am. You described stress. Yes, ma'am. You described exhaustion. [00:07:02] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:07:03] Speaker 1: In all of the times you were asked, you never once said grief, did you? [00:07:06] Speaker 3: I did not, but I did say loss. [00:07:09] Speaker 1: Okay. You never said sadness, did you? [00:07:12] Speaker 3: I said emptiness. Okay. [00:07:14] Speaker 1: You testified that you went through this elaborate lie of your wife being missing and telling everybody that she was missing because otherwise people would assume the worst. Yes, ma'am. What's the worst? [00:07:32] Speaker 3: The situation I'm in now. [00:07:35] Speaker 1: What is the worst? Going to jail. [00:07:37] Speaker 3: They would assume that you murdered your wife. [00:07:50] Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. [00:07:52] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:07:53] Speaker 1: And you have testified that after you were at Willowa, essentially, you have no memory of the evening. Yes. Okay. That gun's allowed gun to shoot? [00:08:07] Speaker 3: Say again? [00:08:08] Speaker 1: That gun is allowed gun to shoot? [00:08:10] Speaker 3: I mean, relatively to a normal person, yes. Okay. [00:08:16] Speaker 1: Um, what do you mean to a normal person? [00:08:22] Speaker 3: Um, to someone who didn't shoot artillery. Okay. Say the sound of a nine mil is loud, but. [00:08:33] Speaker 1: And you went to bed next to your wife? [00:08:38] Speaker 3: I can't tell you for sure because I don't remember. Okay. [00:08:43] Speaker 1: Um, and you have no idea what happened until the next morning. Yes, ma'am. Despite the neighbor more than, you know, 80 feet away hearing that weapon. Is that an argument in? No. [00:08:57] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:08:58] Speaker 1: How do you know, sir, that she didn't confront you with those Instagram and Snapchat messages and you didn't put the gun to her head and tell her you were going to kill her? How do you know that you didn't pull the trigger? [00:09:14] Speaker 3: I don't. [00:09:15] Speaker 1: Okay. You don't know? No, ma'am. [00:09:18] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:09:19] Speaker 1: You want the jury to believe that she did this to herself? Objection. [00:09:23] Speaker 3: Overruled. It's not up to me what the jury believes. [00:09:28] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:09:29] Speaker 1: So, despite the fact that she was otherwise happy in your marriage, yes? [00:09:34] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:09:35] Speaker 1: And planning for her future. Yes. And your future. Yeah. And tried to have a good evening with you on your birthday. Mm-hmm. And had forgiven you for text message infidelity in the past. Right? Okay. So, you don't know that you didn't kill her? Can you restate that question? You don't know that you didn't kill her? I'm not sure I answered that. [00:10:01] Speaker ?: There's a lot of do's and don'ts. It's just too complicated. Do you know if you pulled the trigger, sir? I do not. Okay. [00:10:06] Speaker 3: Okay. That night, Saraya wasn't drunk? I don't remember much from that night. Okay. [00:10:11] Speaker 1: Would you agree that up until the part you can remember, she was the least drunk of your group? Her, her or someone else I was with us, yeah. Who's someone else? [00:10:20] Speaker ?: Let's be specific. One of my friends, Zach. Okay. [00:10:23] Speaker 3: So, her or Zach were the most sober? Yes, ma'am. [00:10:25] Speaker 1: Okay. And was Saraya taking care of you? From what I've been told, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That night, Saraya wasn't drunk? [00:10:31] Speaker ?: I don't remember much from that night. Okay. [00:10:33] Speaker 3: Would you agree that up until the part you can remember, she was the least drunk of your group? Her or someone else I was with us, yeah. [00:10:38] Speaker 1: Who's someone else? [00:10:39] Speaker 3: Let's be specific. One of my friends, Zach. [00:10:41] Speaker 1: Okay. So, her or Zach were the most sober? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And was Saraya taking care of you? Okay. Do you recall her helping you to the gaslight? I do not. Do you recall her helping you into the Uber? I do not. And into the house? I do not. [00:10:58] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:10:59] Speaker 1: You kept that gun loaded? [00:11:12] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:11:13] Speaker 1: With a bullet in the chamber? [00:11:14] Speaker 3: I did. [00:11:15] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. [00:11:17] Speaker 1: What do you have to do to fire it? [00:11:19] Speaker 3: Take the safety off and pull the trigger. [00:11:23] Speaker 1: How do you take the safety off? [00:11:25] Speaker 3: The thumb switch. Okay. [00:11:27] Speaker 1: And pull the trigger? Yes, ma'am. Once? Um, so I want to get to, because you don't remember anything about her death, I want to get to the morning when you wake up. Okay. You were soaked in blood? I was not. Okay. You've seen the photographs of the mattress? I have. And you were laying in bed with her? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Okay. You didn't call 911? Correct. You didn't take life-saving measures? No, I did not. Okay. You didn't run outside and ask for help? No. You didn't call her mom? I did not. You didn't call her best friend? No. You didn't call her command? [00:12:09] Speaker 3: No. [00:12:10] Speaker 1: You started planning how to protect yourself? No. [00:12:13] Speaker 3: I wouldn't phrase it that way, but... [00:12:26] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:12:27] Speaker 1: You started planning how to dispose of her body? [00:12:30] Speaker 3: I started planning on what I was going to do next. [00:12:34] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:12:35] Speaker 1: And the first thing you did is you went to the Alaska Bush Company homepage, right? [00:12:38] Speaker 3: I don't remember doing that, but... [00:12:41] Speaker 1: Were you looking for a potential other alibi or excuse? Some other thing you could blame her death on? [00:12:49] Speaker 3: I can't tell you what was going through my mind because I don't really remember looking that up. [00:12:54] Speaker 1: You mapped to the Castle Megastore? [00:12:56] Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. [00:12:57] Speaker 1: Before you texted her in to work? Yes, ma'am. Why'd you do that? [00:13:02] Speaker 3: I can't really tell you because I don't remember. [00:13:04] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:13:05] Speaker 1: Again, were you planning some other potential excuse for what had happened for her? [00:13:12] Speaker 3: At that point, I hadn't had a plan together. Okay. [00:13:17] Speaker 1: But you started getting the plan together when you texted her work? [00:13:22] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:13:23] Speaker 1: And you texted Nadia Jones, her immediate manager? Yes, ma'am. And you told her that she had food poisoning? You texted her as Soraya? Yes, ma'am. And you told her that she had food poisoning? [00:13:36] Speaker 3: I did. [00:13:37] Speaker 1: I did. And that she wouldn't be into work today? Yes, ma'am. And she told you to call Craig? Or message Craig? [00:13:44] Speaker 3: I believe so. [00:13:45] Speaker 1: Okay. And you didn't know that Soraya had Craig's number saved in her phone under a different name? I did not. Okay. Okay. [00:13:55] Speaker ?: Right. [00:13:56] Speaker 1: Okay. What was the first thing you did to clean up her body? [00:14:14] Speaker 3: Clean the surrounding areas? Does that mean the floor? [00:14:17] Speaker 1: Clean the surrounding areas in the bedroom. [00:14:19] Speaker 3: The floor. [00:14:20] Speaker 1: When did you discover the gun? [00:14:23] Speaker 3: That would have been after I saw that she was, my wife was dead with a gunshot wound. Okay. [00:14:32] Speaker 1: Um, you didn't say on direct examination, where was it? Do you remember? I do not. Okay. So you can't even tell the jury that it was near her? [00:14:41] Speaker 3: I cannot. [00:14:42] Speaker 1: Was it in the bathroom? I don't know. Was it on the floor? [00:14:45] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:14:46] Speaker 1: Was it on the dining room table? I don't know. You remember finding her deceased, but don't remember where you found the gun? [00:14:56] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:14:57] Speaker 1: Okay. Did you clean the gun? [00:14:59] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:15:02] Speaker 1: Well, would you have done it right away that morning? [00:15:05] Speaker 3: I just said I don't know. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: So I... [00:15:08] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:15:09] Speaker 1: Um, so the first thing you did was clean the surrounding areas. That means the floor? [00:15:14] Speaker 3: That wasn't the first thing I did, but when I started cleaning up around the surrounding areas was the first place I cleaned. [00:15:21] Speaker 1: Okay. You moved her body at least twice on the bed, right? [00:15:25] Speaker 3: Twice. Yes, ma'am. [00:15:27] Speaker 1: Okay. And... But you did the floors first. What did you use to do the floors? [00:15:31] Speaker 3: A carpet cleaner. Okay. [00:15:33] Speaker 1: And was this before or after you went to Fred Meyers? [00:15:37] Speaker 3: During, because I took multiple trips. Okay. [00:15:40] Speaker 1: After the first time? [00:15:42] Speaker 3: In between the second and third time, I believe. Okay. [00:15:48] Speaker 1: Okay. So after you'd been to Brown Jug? [00:15:50] Speaker ?: Um... [00:15:51] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. [00:15:53] Speaker 1: So after you've been to Brown Jug, you don't start cleaning until then? Yes. Okay. But you deleted the photos on her phone before you went to Fred Meyers at all? [00:16:01] Speaker ?: Yes, ma'am. [00:16:02] Speaker 3: Okay. You deleted the photos on her phone at 11:30? [00:16:04] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. deleted the photos on her phone before you went to Fred Meyers at all? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You deleted the photos on her phone at 11:30? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And why did you delete those? Um, they're embarrassing. Is it because they show motive? Because they're embarrassing. Okay. Could they also be a reason that somebody would suspect you of her murder? I don't know. That's not what you were thinking? I was thinking these are embarrassing pictures. I wasn't thinking that. And that's the thought you had before you even started cleaning up the body? Yeah. That's the thought I had after. That's the thought I had after I found her body. You thought these photos are embarrassing. And they're also something somebody could look at and would say was a motive to kill her. Right? I don't. I'm sorry. I don't see it as a motive. Okay. Well, you testified that, you know, you had to get rid of the body and you couldn't tell anybody because people would assume the worst. And the worst is what you said this, that you might be in trouble for this. Yes. Okay. Okay. Um, so you delete the photos at 1130. You go to Fred Meyers at 1226. Right? Right. You go to Brown Jug. Right. You text your dad. And we didn't talk, you know, Ms. Brewster talked about, you know, the photo of the alcohol. But you told your dad that maybe you had a little too much fun. [00:18:13] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:18:14] Speaker 1: We asked a lot about what's going through your mind. What's going through your mind when you tell your dad that maybe you had a little too much fun last night? [00:18:20] Speaker 3: I just drank way too much. Okay. [00:18:25] Speaker 1: Okay. Your parents have always been loving and supportive? [00:18:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker 1: You're proud of being adopted? Yes. Proud of how they raised you? Yes. You were connected to them? Yes. Your mother has supported you throughout this? She has. [00:18:40] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. [00:18:42] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:18:42] Speaker 1: You didn't ask your dad for help? Of course not. You told him you had a little too much fun last night? Yes. [00:18:49] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:18:50] Speaker 1: So then after brown jug, it sounds like that's when you started cleaning up the surrounding area? [00:18:56] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:18:57] Speaker 1: Okay. And you did the carpet. What else did you clean then? [00:19:02] Speaker 3: The carpet. And then after I retrieved the trash can, I moved my wife's body into the trash can and started cleaning the bed. [00:19:12] Speaker 1: Okay. I'm not to the trash can quite yet. I want to know, after brown jug, did you pour yourself a drink immediately? [00:19:19] Speaker 3: I don't remember. [00:19:23] Speaker 1: Did you drink? You said you wanted to numb things. Did you drink while you were cleaning up? [00:19:28] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:19:29] Speaker 1: Okay. Because we saw the picture with your dad. You sense your dad already had ice in the cup, right? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You presume you start drinking then? [00:19:40] Speaker 3: Can't say. [00:19:41] Speaker 1: Okay. So, if you pour yourself a drink, where is Soraya's body while you're having a sip of that Four Roses? [00:19:54] Speaker 3: Either in the bedroom or in the trash can. [00:19:59] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:20:00] Speaker 1: Is it fair to believe that you began drinking when you texted your dad that picture with the ice in the cup? [00:20:10] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:20:11] Speaker 1: Or was that just for show? [00:20:13] Speaker 3: Just for show, I believe, but I don't know. [00:20:15] Speaker 1: Just making, like, the lie more elaborate? [00:20:18] Speaker 3: I wouldn't consider it that. [00:20:20] Speaker 1: More believable? [00:20:23] Speaker 3: No. [00:20:24] Speaker 1: No. It's fair to assume if you put the ice in the cup, you mean to pour a drunken drink. And you hadn't bought the trash can yet, right? Correct. So, where is Soraya's body when you're sitting and sipping on your Four Roses? [00:20:40] Speaker 3: If I would have sat down and drank, it would have been in the bedroom still. But I don't remember sitting down and drinking the Four Roses. [00:20:47] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you testified on direct that you drank to numb. [00:20:51] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:20:52] Speaker 1: When did you drink? [00:20:54] Speaker 3: Throughout this whole process. [00:20:55] Speaker 1: Okay. So, while her body's still on the bed? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And so, you cleaned the floors. Then, describe for the jury, with as much detail as you can, how you moved her body. [00:21:13] Speaker 3: Um, I remember I twisted her body around and then started to manage to get her into the trash can feet first. [00:21:36] Speaker 1: How do you get her in feet first? Did you wheel the trash can all the way into the bedroom or did you carry her out? [00:21:41] Speaker 3: Yes, I wheeled it into the bedroom. [00:21:43] Speaker 1: Okay. How do you get her in feet first? Where do you grab her? [00:21:46] Speaker 3: I dragged her into the trash can. [00:21:50] Speaker 1: Well, the trash can's this high, right? Yeah. And the bed's? Yeah. Two or three feet lower. So, you pull her by the legs? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And put her into the trash can? [00:22:01] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:02] Speaker 1: Do you have to lift the weight of her body? [00:22:06] Speaker 3: Not directly. Just dragging. Be specific. [00:22:10] Speaker 1: Do you lay the trash can down? The trash can was at the end of the bed. Okay. [00:22:16] Speaker 3: And I dragged her from, once I flipped her around, I dragged her into the trash can. Okay. [00:22:21] Speaker 1: Did you partially lay the trash can down to do that? Yes. Okay. And then you threw the bloody sheets and pillows on top of her? [00:22:29] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:30] Speaker 1: Okay. Um, and then you go to buy a mattress topper? [00:22:36] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:37] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:22:38] Speaker 1: So, you put her body in the trash can immediately after you bought the trash can? Or do you buy the mattress topper first? [00:22:45] Speaker 3: Um, I wouldn't say it was immediately after I bought the trash can, but in between the purchase of the trash can and the purchase of the mattress topper. Okay. [00:22:53] Speaker 1: So then do you leave her in the trash can in the bedroom while you go to buy the mattress [00:22:59] Speaker 3: topper? [00:23:00] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Okay. You go and you buy the mattress topper. You've got no second thoughts about telling anybody at this point. [00:23:10] Speaker 3: Second thoughts, but I couldn't react to them. [00:23:14] Speaker 1: Okay. And you purchased the mattress topper. Um, do you go immediately home after purchasing the mattress topper? I believe so. Okay. So it's 10 p.m. And the jury can see the steps that you took that night. Um, fair to say you are up moving from 11 p.m. all the way till 5 a.m. [00:23:34] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Okay. [00:23:36] Speaker 1: Um, do you put the new sheets, do you flip the mattress first or do you take her body to the storm drain first? Flip the mattress first. [00:23:46] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:23:47] Speaker 1: So you flip the mattress and then you take her body to the storm drain. Um, a storm drain that you picked out earlier in the day. Yes, ma'am. That you physically went to and saw. Yes, ma'am. You knew it would be a good place to dump her. [00:24:00] Speaker 3: I wouldn't say good, but yes, ma'am. [00:24:01] Speaker 1: What time did you pick that place out? [00:24:04] Speaker 3: Um, it would have been when I visited Bancroft Park. [00:24:08] Speaker 1: About one, between one and two in the afternoon? [00:24:11] Speaker 3: I don't remember the time exactly, but. [00:24:13] Speaker 1: After your first trip to Fred Myers? Yes, ma'am. Before you went to Brown Jug? Yes, ma'am. You looked at Waldron Park? Right? Yes, ma'am. You looked at Bancroft Park? [00:24:24] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:24:25] Speaker 1: You also went to a barber shop? Or mapped to a barber shop? [00:24:30] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:24:31] Speaker 1: Why'd you do that? [00:24:33] Speaker 3: Um, I was just, my mind was frantic and everywhere and just came back from the field and needed a haircut. [00:24:40] Speaker 1: Okay. So, kind of like you were thinking about like Q-tips, you were just thinking about your personal hygiene in the middle of taking care of this, this problem? [00:24:50] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:24:51] Speaker 1: Um, did you get a haircut that day? I did not. Okay. But you went to the barber shop? [00:24:59] Speaker 3: Did I go to the barber shop? Yeah. [00:25:02] Speaker 1: When? When you were looking at the storm, or around the time you looked at the storm drain? [00:25:07] Speaker 3: I don't think I did. [00:25:09] Speaker 1: Okay, you just did a map search there? Yes, ma'am. [00:25:12] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:25:13] Speaker 1: And then you described how you wheeled her out? [00:25:19] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:20] Speaker 1: Um, is there a ramp leading outside of your apartment, right? [00:25:24] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:25] Speaker 1: Okay. Um, was that difficult? [00:25:30] Speaker 3: It wasn't easy. [00:25:33] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, on the access road, it's gravel, right? Right. Um, how long did it take you? [00:25:43] Speaker 3: A long time. [00:25:44] Speaker 1: Um, what time in the night was it? You said it was getting dark? [00:25:49] Speaker 3: It was dark at the time and it was, took all, pretty much all night. Okay. [00:25:55] Speaker 1: Okay. And, when you got her to the storm drain, you said you put her in there? Yes, ma'am. You dumped her in there, right? [00:26:06] Speaker 3: I think it was a similar, similar verbiage. [00:26:09] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, it's 15 feet down. Right. You didn't place her gently? No, ma'am. Okay. Did you have to pick her up? [00:26:17] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:26:18] Speaker 1: Okay. So, you picked her up out of the trash can and put her in the storm drain? No, ma'am. How did you do it? [00:26:25] Speaker 3: From what I remember, I wheeled this, the trash can as close to the storm drain as I possibly could and then lifted from the bottom of the trash can to lever it into, to lever her into the storm drain. The storm drain. [00:26:43] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:26:44] Speaker 1: And, she fell down there? [00:26:46] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:26:47] Speaker 1: Okay. 15 feet, at least. [00:26:49] Speaker 3: However far it was. [00:26:50] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:26:51] Speaker 1: And, you, was anything left in the trash can? [00:27:00] Speaker 3: I had taken the bed sheets out and the pillows out before I dumped my wife into the storm drain. Okay. Showed. [00:27:08] Speaker 1: And, when you dumped Soraya in the storm drain, you put the pillows and the bed sheets on top of her? [00:27:16] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:27:17] Speaker 1: Was that to hide her or just to get rid of the bedding or both? [00:27:22] Speaker 3: Initially, I was going to burn the bedding, which is where the smell from gasoline came from. [00:27:27] Speaker 1: Yep. [00:27:28] Speaker 3: But, I decided to just put everything down the storm drain. [00:27:32] Speaker 1: Okay. And, you decided not to burn it because fire means smoke, right? Yes, ma'am. [00:27:38] Speaker 3: And, smoke attracts attention? [00:27:40] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, you're conscious enough to be thinking about those kind of things. And, you dump them down into the storm drain. There was a pair of gloves. Yes, ma'am. Did you wear those? I did. Okay. Those were your gloves? [00:27:57] Speaker ?: One of the pairs I had. [00:27:58] Speaker 3: One of the pairs I had. Yeah. [00:28:00] Speaker 1: When did you make the conscious decision to put those on? [00:28:04] Speaker 3: It warmed throughout the whole process. [00:28:07] Speaker 1: Okay. And, you said you picked the exit that you did because there was no cameras? [00:28:14] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:28:15] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:28:16] Speaker 1: You also talked about being like in a state of emotional numbness during that time, right? Yes, ma'am. Okay. But, you weren't numb enough to not notice the placement of cameras? [00:28:28] Speaker 3: I lived in the apartment complex long enough to know where cameras were. [00:28:32] Speaker 1: Okay. And, you actively chose a place that didn't have cameras? [00:28:37] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:28:38] Speaker 1: Okay. That was conscious thought that's going through your head when you did this. [00:28:45] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:28:46] Speaker 1: Okay. And, you wore the gloves? [00:28:48] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:28:49] Speaker 1: To conceal your identity? [00:28:54] Speaker 3: No. [00:28:55] Speaker 1: Because you didn't want to touch it because it was disgusting? [00:28:59] Speaker 3: Yes. [00:29:00] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:29:04] Speaker 1: Do you get a better grip with gloves? [00:29:06] Speaker 3: Not necessarily. Um. [00:29:20] Speaker 1: And, after you dumped Soraya down the storm drain, um, you did some online shopping, right? [00:29:31] Speaker 3: I don't remember, but that's what my phone records say. [00:29:34] Speaker 1: Okay. You looked at Patagonia? Yes, ma'am. You looked at some other outdoor gear brands? Yes, ma'am. Okay. You said you showered? [00:29:41] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Okay. [00:29:43] Speaker 1: And then, you went to work the next day? Yes, ma'am. [00:29:46] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:29:47] Speaker 1: Do you remember having kind of a lively group chat discussion about whether there would be PT that morning? I do not. Okay. Did you have PT that morning? I don't remember. [00:29:56] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:29:57] Speaker 1: But you went to work? [00:29:58] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:29:59] Speaker 1: And you acted like everything was normal? [00:30:01] Speaker 3: I did. [00:30:02] Speaker 1: Okay. And there was some discussion about whether you called Marie or whether she called you, but she'd been trying to get a hold of Soraya all day, right? [00:30:10] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:11] Speaker 1: And you had Soraya's phone? [00:30:12] Speaker 3: I did. [00:30:13] Speaker 1: And you lied to Marie? Yes, ma'am. You gave her a thumbs up that everything was good? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you told Marie a very calculated lie? [00:30:27] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:28] Speaker 1: You told Marie that Soraya left for work? Yes, ma'am. She left for work at 10 a.m.? [00:30:33] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:34] Speaker 1: She was wearing all black? [00:30:35] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:36] Speaker 1: She took her purse with her? [00:30:37] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:38] Speaker 1: She left her phone? [00:30:40] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:41] Speaker 1: And you hadn't seen her since? [00:30:42] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:43] Speaker 1: And Marie was upset, right? Yes, ma'am. She was upset that you hadn't told her? [00:30:50] Speaker 3: Told her... [00:30:51] Speaker 1: That Soraya was missing? Yes, ma'am. [00:30:53] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:30:54] Speaker 1: And she encouraged you to call the police? [00:30:56] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:57] Speaker 1: Okay. And when you called the police? Marie called the police first, right? Yes, ma'am. And the 911 dispatcher said, "Why are you calling? Why isn't her husband talking to me?" Yes, ma'am. Okay. And then you told them the same calculated lie? [00:31:12] Speaker 3: I did. [00:31:13] Speaker 1: Okay. That she left for work at 10 a.m.? Right? Yes, ma'am. She was wearing all black? [00:31:19] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:20] Speaker 1: That she left her phone? [00:31:21] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:22] Speaker 1: She had her purse and her wallet with her? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you said you did that because you wanted to follow what you had already committed to? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And that you were having constant fear at this point? [00:31:36] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:37] Speaker 1: Fear that you're going to get caught? [00:31:39] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:40] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:31:41] Speaker 1: And you participated in a search party? Yes, ma'am. Well, first you called Meredith. Yes, ma'am. You told Meredith the same calculated lie. I did. You coordinated her making a flyer? [00:31:57] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:58] Speaker 1: You posted that on your social media? [00:32:00] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:01] Speaker 1: You participated in a search party? Yes, ma'am. You got your command involved? [00:32:05] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:06] Speaker 1: You're getting indignant with people on social media when they accuse you of being disingenuous? [00:32:12] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:13] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:32:14] Speaker 1: And you said during that time you felt dishonest and disrespectful? Yes, ma'am. [00:32:19] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:32:20] Speaker 1: That search party went right past the drain, right? Yes, ma'am. Were you with Meredith and Brittany when they went by the drain? [00:32:29] Speaker 3: I don't know. Okay. [00:32:31] Speaker 1: Do you recall diverting them from that area? [00:32:34] Speaker 3: I don't know. [00:32:35] Speaker 1: Do you recall lying to Detective Clark about trying to put Sarai on the other side of the park essentially? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Again, because you had to stick to that commitment that you've made to this lie? [00:32:50] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:51] Speaker 1: Okay. Big on commitments, right? Sure. Okay. You were afraid of being a suspect. Yes, ma'am. And you lied to protect yourself. And then you talked about writing that suicide note. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you're calling it a suicide note now? I am. [00:33:16] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:33:17] Speaker 1: Okay. Have you told other people that it's not? [00:33:20] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:33:21] Speaker 1: In fact, you told your mom that it wasn't. [00:33:23] Speaker 3: I did. [00:33:24] Speaker 1: Okay. And that call was recorded? It was. And you know that your jail calls are recorded? I do. Okay. I'm going to move at this point to play your discussion with your mom about that note. We're going to play from 328. [00:33:40] Speaker 3: Are we marking this? [00:33:41] Speaker 1: Um, what is the states? No, we'll just play it into the record as long as we put it near the audio, it's fine. While she's setting that up, what day did you write that note? [00:33:52] Speaker ?: Um, somewhere between the 7th and the 9th. Okay. Um, when you'd been asked to move on to the barracks or onto base, right? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [00:34:00] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:34:01] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:34:02] Speaker 1: And you knew that Detective Clark didn't believe you because of the cell phone. Didn't believe me for what? [00:34:06] Speaker 3: Didn't believe me for what? Didn't believe you that Soraya had gone missing. Or did you think he believed you? [00:34:09] Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't tell you what I thought he thought. Okay. But you knew the police weren't. No. No. [00:34:15] Speaker ?: Um, somewhere between the 7th and the 9th. Okay. [00:34:17] Speaker 1: Um, somewhere between the 7th and the 9th. Okay. Um, when you'd been asked to move on to the barracks or onto base, right? Yes, ma'am. And you knew the police were investigating. I didn't. [00:34:23] Speaker ?: And you knew they were asking you hard questions. I did. [00:34:25] Speaker 1: And those hard questions are things like, how did she text into work if you had her phone? Yes, ma'am. In fact, you even Googled on the 8th how to make the short term. [00:34:31] Speaker 3: And you didn't believe you because of the cell phone. Didn't believe me for what? Didn't believe you that Soraya had gone missing. [00:34:34] Speaker 1: Or did you think he believed you? I don't know. I can't tell you what I thought he thought. But you knew the police were investigating. I didn't. And you knew they were asking you hard questions. I did. And those hard questions are things like, how did she text into work if you had her phone? [00:34:46] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:34:47] Speaker 1: In fact, you even Googled on the 8th how to make the shortcut text from an iPhone, right? Yes, ma'am. So that you could, again, perpetuate that lie with Detective Lee and Detective Belby? [00:34:58] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:34:59] Speaker 1: Okay. So sometime between the 7th and 8th you wrote that note? [00:35:06] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:35:07] Speaker 1: Okay. And you were holding the Sig Sawyer while you did it? [00:35:10] Speaker 3: It was on my thigh. [00:35:12] Speaker 1: Okay. And then you tucked it into the couch cushions? [00:35:15] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:35:16] Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am. Go ahead, ma'am. [00:35:18] Speaker 2: I was in my apartment. They found a note that, that, like, if I, I, this person, this is the best. And I just said that I'd end up here. Um, to take care of the dogs. Um, and when I said here, I mean, I meant, um, jail, not dead. Oh. [00:35:38] Speaker 4: So it looked like a suicide note. Yeah. [00:35:40] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I told all the clinicians that, and, um, they asked me every day for a while. They asked me every day if I, you know, want to just harm myself with anything. I told them no because I didn't. [00:35:49] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker 2: I'm living here pretty fast. Wow. That's good. [00:35:53] Speaker 1: Um, so, you told the clinicians in custody that it wasn't a suicide note. [00:36:00] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:36:01] Speaker 1: Right? Because suicide protocols in jail are tough. [00:36:03] Speaker 3: They suck. [00:36:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, they keep you separate. Yeah. So out of self-interest, you said it's not a suicide note. [00:36:09] Speaker 3: That's right. [00:36:10] Speaker 1: But here you're telling the jury that it was a suicide note. [00:36:13] Speaker 3: Um, I wanted to protect the feelings of my mother. I don't think any mother wants to hear that her son's suicidal. Okay. [00:36:19] Speaker 1: Well, you also want to manipulate the emotions of the jury, right? Objection. Sustained. Do you want the jury to feel sorry for you? Objection. [00:36:31] Speaker 3: I don't want the jury to use, no, I don't want the jury to feel sorry for me. [00:36:45] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:36:46] Speaker 3: It's not their job. [00:36:47] Speaker 1: Have you ever told your mom you were going to work your magic on the jury? [00:36:52] Speaker 3: Um, briefly, yes. [00:36:54] Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you mean by that? [00:36:55] Speaker 3: It's just that I was going to testify. Okay. [00:36:58] Speaker 1: That you were going to testify and they would feel sorry for you. [00:37:02] Speaker 3: I didn't say that. [00:37:03] Speaker 1: What did you say? [00:37:04] Speaker 3: Um, based off the conversation, it said work my magic. Yeah. Which implies that I was just going to testify. Okay. [00:37:11] Speaker 1: I'd move to go ahead and play. And that conversation with your mom was January 15th? Do you recall? [00:37:18] Speaker 3: I don't remember the conversation, but I've seen the text. [00:37:21] Speaker 1: Okay. I'd move to play that conversation, Judge, starting at 4:04. Go ahead. [00:37:26] Speaker 4: Does Lars think you have a good chance if you go to trial? Nope. Not really. Oh. So. Oh, okay. Uh, 20% chance. That's if I can get on the fucking stand and tell a testimony. And, you know. Yeah. That's if I can get on the stand and, I don't want to say work my magic, but. Yeah, I know what you mean. [00:37:48] Speaker 1: You know what I mean? [00:37:49] Speaker 4: Make the jury. [00:37:50] Speaker 1: Yeah. [00:37:51] Speaker 4: You know. [00:37:52] Speaker 1: They'll feel for you. [00:37:53] Speaker 4: I know. I can do what I've been doing my whole life, essentially. But I don't know if I can do that with this, so. Yeah. I know. Um. That's the biggest problem. Sure. Well, how's the video? [00:38:05] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:38:06] Speaker 1: So when you said do what I've been doing my whole life. [00:38:09] Speaker 3: Talking. Yeah. [00:38:11] Speaker 1: Talking. Yes. Talking about your experience in foster care. [00:38:16] Speaker 3: That's something I talk about a lot. [00:38:17] Speaker 1: Okay. Well, you said you're really proud of it. [00:38:19] Speaker 3: Just because I'm proud of it doesn't mean I talk a lot. Okay. [00:38:22] Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with Soraya's murder, right? [00:38:25] Speaker 3: What has nothing to do with her murder? What has nothing to do with her murder? [00:38:27] Speaker 1: Your experience in foster care? Or your experience being adopted? No. [00:38:32] Speaker ?: No. [00:38:33] Speaker 1: That experience, when you talk about talking to the jury and working your magic, you don't know as you sit here today what happened, or you want them to believe that you don't know what happened. [00:38:56] Speaker 3: Uh, as of then I didn't even know if I was testifying or going to trial or not. [00:39:00] Speaker 1: But if you were gonna, you were gonna work your magic. [00:39:03] Speaker 3: I was going to tell the jury. [00:39:04] Speaker ?: I was gonna, I was gonna testify. [00:39:04] Speaker 3: Okay. Okay. [00:39:06] Speaker ?: Okay. I just want to clear up just a handful of things. [00:39:06] Speaker 3: Okay. [00:39:07] Speaker ?: I just want to clear up just a handful of things. [00:39:07] Speaker 3: Okay. You don't remember where you found the gun? [00:39:09] Speaker ?: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. You don't recall if you cleaned it or not? Yes, ma'am. Or did you clean it? I don't recall if I cleaned it or not. Okay. Okay. I just want to clear up just a handful of things. You don't remember where you found the gun? No, ma'am. You don't recall if you cleaned it or not? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Or did you clean it? I don't recall if I cleaned it or not. Okay. You have no memory after you were at Willowah? No, ma'am. None. Soraya was not suicidal. She was not. She was preparing for her future. She was preparing for her future. No, ma'am. [00:39:30] Speaker 1: No, ma'am. I just want to clear up just a handful of things. You don't remember where you found the gun? No, ma'am. You don't recall if you cleaned it or not? Yes, ma'am. Or did you clean it? [00:39:42] Speaker 3: I don't recall if I cleaned it or not. [00:39:44] Speaker 1: Okay. You have no memory after you were at Willowah? [00:39:48] Speaker 3: No, ma'am. None. [00:39:50] Speaker 1: Soraya was not suicidal. [00:39:53] Speaker 3: She was not. [00:39:54] Speaker 1: She was preparing for her future. [00:39:57] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:39:58] Speaker 1: She was happy in general. [00:39:59] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:40:00] Speaker 1: Your relationship was good. It was. She had overcome you texting Cheyenne in the past. Yes, ma'am. And you lied to every single person about this up until this trial. [00:40:15] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. [00:40:17] Speaker 1: And you told your mom that you were going to testify and work your magic. [00:40:21] Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Okay. [00:40:23] Speaker 1: I think that that's all I have. Thank you. [00:40:26] Speaker ?: Thank you.