Lawyer who prosecuted Trump DROPS BOMBSHELLS in 1ST INTV! (MS Now on Nicolle Wallace exclusive)

[0:00] i want to just remind everyone we are here in an extraordinary place a few years ago it would have [0:06] been unthinkable that a prosecutor would be on television talking about not one but two federal [0:12] cases against a former president it had never happened before so let's remember how we got here [0:17] because what started out with lawsuits turned ultimately into the insurrection in the 2020 [0:23] plots some of them we've marked for you green or yellow because they were effectively legally [0:28] allowed but as trump got more desperate and those things didn't work when you get to the congress [0:33] overturning votes the requests on pence the aborted plan to have a military plot or coup and then [0:41] ultimately the final arrow we all know the illegal sabotage of january 6th those were the plots that [0:47] accrued and smith ultimately was tapped as one of these special counsels with extra independence [0:53] to pursue them and as you know i'll remind you as we plotted this he indicted many of them [0:58] and won convictions against we saw at the state level over the overlapping plots the federal cases [1:05] of course were truncated by the supreme court we all have had conversations about this era we're living [1:12] through what people do journalists playing one role people who are direct in politics playing another uh [1:18] and i thought it was interesting to hear someone like him who's faced these threats who i'll just [1:23] share briefly when i was in the courtroom uh for the case on the jan 6 issues in federal dc and he [1:31] was on one side i remember todd blanche was on the other with that team and i'm watching them [1:35] and it was the largest uh security retinue i'd ever seen for a non-attorney general for any prosecutor [1:41] and it spoke to the fact that even in the sanctum of the that highly fortified federal dc courtroom to [1:47] say nothing how he moved around the country there was tremendous threat and and protection for that [1:52] threat and so now he places these other risks and i give that context to listening to him tell [1:59] tell nicole this anyone can put anything on you but you have a choice about the attitude you take [2:06] for me and i think a lot of the people that i've worked with our view is i want to behave now in a [2:11] way that my kids will be proud yeah i want to act in a way that when i'm retired i look back on this time [2:16] and say i did things right uh i think a lot of people relate to that and i think it's understandable [2:22] and i think if we start aligning actions with our beliefs um it's a huge huge step i think one of [2:30] the things i've seen which is the sort of journey i've been on is you know with me being targeted by [2:38] the president um you get to find out who's who right you get to find out who runs towards the fire [2:45] who kind of backs away um it's difficult in the moment but i think for the future that's [2:50] going to be really helpful to know are you afraid to be speaking out no not at all i'm not i am not [2:56] going to be intimidated uh and there's no way in the world if if the thought was to to go after me [3:02] so that i wouldn't speak up about the corruption that's happening or speak up to defend these agents [3:08] and prosecutors that is a grave miscalculation there is no way i'm going to be intimidated rick americans [3:17] are desperate to see that kind of integrity in their government again that kind of modest humility [3:23] about who he is coupled with absolutely ironclad courage it's something americans i think are [3:29] desperate to see i think this is a really important interview for so many reasons but that's probably [3:33] the the chief among them emily you know it's also important because it has still been relatively [3:42] unusual for former prosecutors former important justice department officials to speak up and there's [3:48] just an allergy really in the whole profession to being a media presence you're just not supposed [3:54] to do your work that way what you say in court is supposed to speak for you but i think rick is right [4:00] these voices are really important right now and having a television interview uh is the vehicle that [4:07] allows a lot of people to see you know what you have to say in this moment and so i wonder if jack smith [4:13] um you know presenting in this way will also open the door to more former justice department officials [4:20] and fbi folks to come forward in the same way well emily you know you can't take a lawyer seriously if [4:26] they want to be on tv present company accepted are well that's the joke i think that uh you're exactly [4:37] right about what i would call traditional legal culture especially at main justice at doj and they a lot [4:44] of those folks come out of that and then nicole and i discussed this earlier he's also come around [4:49] i think you're right i mean we're i'm analyzing something that we're a part of because he chose to [4:53] speak to our colleague because he respects her show because i could tell the audience the the interview [4:59] requests have been in for jack smith from everyone print television everyone and this is where he came [5:05] but having said that he clearly wants to reach people in this medium which was anathema to him for [5:11] most of his doj career so he he alluded to he said directly things are changing and you got to reach [5:16] people where they are and he wants the facts to get out there and we are a phone video world we're not [5:22] just a long doj report world let alone uh you know reading print newspapers every day the world's changing [5:30] before our eyes and trump has obviously mastered the propaganda side so i think that's really interesting [5:35] he said so much i want to show before i lose both of you the other thing he said about [5:39] the doj's process itself breaking down under uh the basically impossible demands of bondi and now [5:47] uh acting ag blanche take a look one of the problems right today besides the the retribution prosecutions [5:56] is that the justice department can't do its job right if you go to court explain that well if you go [6:01] to court and the judges don't trust you you can't do the basic things that you need to do to represent [6:06] the american people in court and we have seen judges across the country uh say they can't trust [6:13] prosecutors anymore and that has such a cascading effect on any sort of case uh and you know i can't [6:20] count how many opinions but one opinion like that in my career would have been seismic people could not [6:26] would not know what to do if a court said you know trust that's been built over generations has been lost [6:32] in days right and that's happening every day and so regardless of what you think politically [6:38] they're just not effective at doing their job anymore emily what's he getting at there well [6:45] he's talking about you know something that's foundational to the rule of law that uh judges [6:50] and lawyers sometimes call the presumption of regularity and what that is is like you go to [6:55] the court you represent the government the judge is going to trust how you represent the facts [6:59] they're going to assume that you are telling the truth you are dependable and jack smith is right [7:04] there have been a lot of judges throwing up their hands in court and saying wait a second [7:08] justice department lawyer you just told me something that's not true i can see you redacted [7:13] a grand jury transcript you're basically trying to mislead me now what do i do because if i have to [7:19] question everything the government presents in court it's going to take a long time it's going to [7:24] change the whole way that we think about these cases and adjudicate them it's a big gift to the [7:30] defense in a lot of cases but it really changes how court works for the government yeah and it's [7:38] a point that's completely non-partisan rick i'm running over on time but it it's about something [7:42] that that you and others have diagnosed the first order trump problems seem to be all about him [7:47] the second order are the decay of systems and institutions it doesn't mean they're going right [7:53] or left it means they're actually just not working yeah and i think what smith said a couple [7:58] of times during the interview was that there there has to be a path to reform doj in in the in a [8:03] post-trump era and that's going to be a big challenge and it will be i think getting back to [8:08] that that assumption of regularity uh getting back to the assumption that the rule of law obtains [8:13] universally inside the government is something that that is going to take an awful lot of work [8:18] which which smith i think correctly identified in that interview