Wisconsin Gubernatorial town hall: Find answers to your data center questions

[00:00:00] Kristen Brey: Good evening. Thank you for being here. Welcome to Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Data Center Gubernatorial Town Hall. My name is Kristen Brey. I am a columnist at the Journal Sentinel, and I'm also your MC for the evening. First and foremost, we want to go ahead and thank our partner, Turner Hall Ballroom and Pabst Theatre Group. We could not pull off this event and past events that we've done with them without their expertise and help. The bar is open, so tip Matt and Bea generously. But yes, throughout the evening, since we are here until 8:30, please feel free to go get up and get a drink. But why are we here? Hyperscale data centers have emerged as a unicorn issue, one that doesn't fall neatly into partisan buckets, but does definitely fit into almost every category that matters to voters: economic development, the environment, affordability, transparency, and local government. So we invited all of the leading gubernatorial candidates here tonight to answer your questions about data centers and also give you time to talk to them directly at the end of the evening. All five of the remaining Democratic candidates are here. Tom Tiffany declined. So before we get started, I want to bring up Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's executive editor, Greg Borowski, [00:01:13] Greg Borowski: to get a few words to welcome you all here. Thank you, Kristen, and a big thank you to all of you for being here this evening and to the Turner Hall folks and the Pabst Theatre Group for hosting and partnering with us on this event. A thank you, too, to the candidates who have joined us. We're glad to have them all here. I counted five of them backstage. As we know, this race has changed quickly, so I hope there'll still be five coming out here in a few minutes. I'm sure there will. They're eager to talk with you guys and hear what questions you have. At the Journal Sentinel, this event is part of our effort to be better connected and more essential to our community. So our role as a news organization is to bring clarity, add context, elevate voices, foster civic discussion, and perhaps most importantly, answer questions. So central to our mission is creating a conversation, not simply providing a lecture. That's why our format this evening, which you'll hear more about soon, is designed around questions that you have, more so than questions that we have. Our team gets to interact with these candidates every day, and you don't, which is why we're putting you first tonight. As with our earlier data centers event, which was held in this very space a few months ago, we're not here for an argument. It's not about scoring points or zingers or sound bites, though we will tolerate an occasional dad joke or two if we want to throw those in. It's about helping you better understand where the candidates stand, so you can make a more informed choice at the ballot box. So if you've ever watched a campaign ad on TV and thought, why don't they talk about a plan, not just a headline? Or why are they talking all about their opponent instead of themselves? Or if you felt, wow, if only I could ask them a question myself, then this is the absolute right event for you tonight. So thank you for being part of it. I'm as eager to hear their answers as you are, so I'll be joining you in the audience. So please stop it and say hello after it's over. I'm interested in your feedback on this event. And I see our timekeeper in the front is holding up a sign for me now that says, "Good God, man, put a cork in it. Let's get on with the show." [00:03:29] Kristen Brey: All right. Thank you, Greg. This is how tonight is going to work. Since we live in a fast-paced visual content world, we have asked all of the candidates to submit a two-minute or less video on where they stand on the issue of data centers, the opportunities that are ahead of us, and how they would handle this issue as governor. After we play all five videos, we'll invite the candidates to stage to be questioned by my colleague and tonight's moderator, Jesse O'Poyan. We will then hear for questions also from four citizen readers, readers who are also citizens, who are also voters who are sitting in the front row, and they'll be asking their questions right up here. And then when the program ends at 7:30, you can see that there's five spots around the room. All of the candidates will be at their designated table, and you'll have an opportunity for kind of free-form conversation. It could be one-to-one, one-to-many, depending on how many people want to talk to that candidate, but it will be unstructured, and your time to actually get more of your questions answered. So before we get to those questions, I want to ground us first in how fast this issue has escalated. So I present to you a very truncated timeline of the issue of hyperscale data centers in Wisconsin. So less than four years ago, on November 30, 2022, ChatGPT was released to the public. And suddenly, millions of people who had never thought much about artificial intelligence got a hands-on demo of what it could do. While many of us were asking ChatGPT to draft emails or create ridiculous photos, AI industry leaders were planning and investing in what it would take to run it all. The answer to that, in part, is hyperscale data centers. By March 2023, Wisconsin was in the conversation. It was announced that Microsoft would develop a $1 billion, 315-acre parcel of the mostly vacant Foxconn site in Mount Pleasant. Then, in July of 2023, Wisconsin's biennial budget included a sales and use tax exemption framework for qualified data centers. Translation, Wisconsin put up a sign that said, "We are open for business. Please bring your servers." By November of 2023, Microsoft had broken ground in Mount Pleasant. And then, in 2024, Microsoft announced a much larger $3.3 billion investment in Wisconsin. So, at this point in time, data centers were strongly, were largely discussed in terms of economic development. Big investments, big construction, big tech choosing Wisconsin. Then, things became a little bit more complicated in 2025. In January, just making sure we're still on the right side. The town and city of Port Washington unanimously approved terms, allowing the city to annex the site of a proposed data center. In March, We Energies filed plans with the Public Service Commission to create a new rate for very large energy customers, publicly demonstrating that this wasn't just a land issue. It was also a power issue. In April, Bloomberg identified MENA as the developer behind a roughly $800 million beaver dam project. And then, in August, Port Washington approved a development agreement with Vantage data centers for an $8 billion campus. And then, just a few days later, Charlie Behrens posted a video ripping apart data centers and the Port Washington deal. For a lot of Wisconsinites, that was the moment this issue went from "not really knowing anything" to "wait, what's happening?" And the backlash started to become very visible statewide. In September, Menominee's mayor sidelined a $1.6 billion proposal after public pushback. In October, Microsoft canceled its Caledonia data center site. Also in October, for the first time, the Marquette Law School released a poll showing 55% of Wisconsin voters said the cost of data centers outweighed the benefits. And importantly, that skepticism was not neatly partisan. Then, in December, data center opponents launched a recall effort against Port Washington Mayor Ted Neitzke. So, by the end of 2025, the story had clearly changed. It was no longer just "Big Tech is investing in Wisconsin." It was "Communities are asking questions, residents are organizing, and the state does not yet have a clear playbook." Then came 2026, and the issue has only accelerated. In January, DeForest announced it would not move forward with a controversial $12 billion data center proposal. In February, the effort to recall Port Washington's mayor failed to gather enough valid signatures. And by March, state lawmakers had introduced a variety of bills addressing some of the biggest unresolved questions: cost-shifting, renewable power requirements, and bans on non-disclosure agreements. But the end of the legislative session, none of this was actually passed. And so, it left the issue until the next legislative session, which starts in 2027. In the April election, Port Washington voters passed a referendum requiring voter approval for future large tax incremental financing districts. Also in April, the State Public Service Commission approved WeEnergy's special energy rate for large data centers, but not without making a series of changes to strengthen protections for existing rate payers. We also learned about the Legislative Fiscal Bureau's projection that Wisconsin's data center tax exemption could cost the state more than $2 billion in lost revenue. And then in May, the PSC approved Alliant Energy's power agreement for Meta's Beaver Dam data center. But commissioners also criticized the lack of transparency, ordered Alliant to create a more standardized data center rate going forward, and modified the contract to protect existing customers from project-related energy costs. In June, a proposed $2 billion data center in the Driftless area appeared to collapse after strong local opposition. Then on June 23rd, Microsoft announced that construction of its first Mount Pleasant data center was complete and was now fully operational, basically becoming the first open-for-business, hyperscale data center in Wisconsin. That same day, news broke that Oracle had filed a lawsuit against Wisconsin regulators over credit and financing requirements tied to data center power service. And in this current month of July, Mount Pleasant and Sertivan residents filed a class action lawsuit against Microsoft over noise for the newly operational data center. Environmental groups filed a lawsuit against the Wisconsin DNR over its review of the Port Washington data center project. And then a week ago, getting pretty full. A week ago, the latest, well, it's not the latest anymore. Last week's Marquette Law School poll showed that Wisconsin voters had grown even more skeptical. What was 55% in the fall, it's now over 76%, including 67% of Republicans and 88% of Democrats. Oh, call back. So if you're thinking to yourself, that escalated quickly, you would be right. Yes, it did. In less than four years, this issue has gone from a tech headline to a Wisconsin kitchen table issue. So I'm going to talk a little bit more about what's going to happen in a little bit of a little bit. And I'm going to talk a little bit more about what's going to happen in a little bit about what's going to happen. I'm going to talk a little bit more about what's going to happen. I'm going to talk a little bit more about what's going to happen in a little bit more about what's going to happen. I'm going to talk a little bit more about what's going to happen in a little bit more about what's going to happen. Before we bring the candidates on for a live conversation, we asked each of them to submit a short video explaining where they stand on data centers, what they see as the opportunity, what they see as the risk, and what kind of state framework they believe Wisconsin needs. [00:11:34] Speaker 3: Let me be clear. There will be no subsidies for data centers. These are trillion-dollar companies. They've already got enough of our money. And we also need to make sure that there is no data center construction without guardrails in place, without a very specific framework that ensures that we are protecting our air and water quality and all natural resources, as well as the state of Wisconsin and all of our residents. We have to make sure that utility rates aren't increasing. And there's also a commitment to renewable energy that goes back to the grid to save people even more money. If these very basic sets of standards cannot be met, then data centers shouldn't be built. If a community does not want a data center, then a data center should not be built. Again, these are the wealthiest corporations to ever exist. And they've gotten so wealthy because they have taken advantage of us every step of the way. These tech companies, these social media companies have accelerated the mental health crises, especially amongst our youth. They've also increased political polarization and made life generally difficult for so many folks. They've been able to do so because they have had limited to no accountability throughout their entire existence. As a state, we can get out in front. We can show leadership and we can provide the real framework to ensure that the people of this state are being protected from the harms of social media companies in the existence of these data centers. As I've talked about, everything they've done wrong, these data centers feel like the physical manifestation of all that. They assume they can show up and have their way. They assume they can show up and take advantage of people. But this is a moment where the people of Wisconsin get to say no. And we're going to provide the leadership that ensures that the people's voice will be respected because the will of the people should be the law of the land. [00:13:18] Speaker 4: And I'm Joel Brennan. I'm running to be Wisconsin's next governor. Data centers are one of the most consequential issues for us to address as a state. And to be honest, Wisconsin has done it poorly in the last few years. The action or rather inaction in Wisconsin at the state level has sowed distrust. It has sowed anger and it's caused chaos all around the state. When the legislature passed the tax incentives that put Wisconsin into the data center effort, they didn't pass a single guardrail to go along with it. Nothing related to who pays for any additional costs for data centers. Nothing around environmental standards or what we're going to do around renewables. Nothing about who is going to build these in Wisconsin and nothing to ensure that local units of government, local residents have a say of what's happening in their own community. That's wrong. That has to change. When I am governor, it will. The legislature has had the last couple of years to do something around that and they have done nothing. When I am governor, this is what we will do. One, we will ensure that not you, not me, none of our neighbors are paying for the construction, the operation, the transmission, the ultimate retirement of these data centers. That's done by the people who are building these. Number two, we'll ensure that there are environmental regulations with real teeth about these and ensure that there is renewable energy being created so that we're moving forward towards our 2050 goal of being carbon neutral. Number three, we'll ensure that Wisconsin union labor is building every one of these that gets built in Wisconsin. And number four, we will ensure that local units of government and local residents have a say in what happens in their community. That's just who we should be in Wisconsin. I think we should pause on the approval of new data centers in order to pass these guardrails. But the good news is there's legislation that's ready to go. Democrats have worked on this and I want to make sure that stakeholders have their involvement, their input, and we do this as quickly as possible. We want Wisconsin to be open for business, but not at the expense of taxpayers. That's the kind of governor I'll be. I hope to earn your vote on August 11th. [00:15:18] Speaker 5: I'm David Crowley. And as a candidate for governor, I hear every day that people want more transparency and regulations around data centers, especially hyperscale developments. Now, big tech companies should not get to use a back door to enter our state and profit from using our natural resources, especially with no benefit for Wisconsin families. That's why my Badger Basics plan is a promise to Wisconsin that we will hold big tech accountable. That includes requiring hyperscale data centers to abide by strict environmental standards and be powered by 100% renewable energy. Now, I call this the Beyonce principle. Bring your own new clean energy. Now, as governor, I'll enforce strict guardrails on water use, building codes, and emissions, so data center growth doesn't come at our expense. So with that in mind, there needs to be a community benefits degree, not just for the communities that these data centers are going inside, but for the entire state of Wisconsin. You know why? Because we're all going to be effective. If they're going to be here, we should all be getting a piece of these data centers so we can leverage the resources that they bring for our school systems to build more broadband and to focus on the infrastructure right here in our own community. Now, I don't believe that we should have a moratorium in place, because the reality is they're already here. This is about protecting ourselves. We have to make sure that they're transparent and accountable. And we need to make sure that they're providing communities the ability to get things done. Because at the end of the day, Wisconsin families should come first before corporate profits. If a company wants to do business here, they need to play by the rules. They need to respect our communities, and they need to pay their fair share. That's how we defend our resources, keep costs down for working families, and build an economy that works for everyone and not just the big corporations. [00:17:01] Speaker 6: Hi, I'm State Representative Francesca Hong, and my plan for AI data centers is Control-Alt-Delete. With companies rushing to build these massive facilities, we need enforceable regulations that protect our farmland and public health and ensures polluters are held accountable when it comes to clean water, clean air, and energy costs. Taxpayers should not be on the hook. These companies must pay their full way. I'm the only candidate calling for a moratorium on AI data centers because we have to control the standards and give local control while also deleting corporate handouts with no return on investment. These data centers won't be billed with public money, and they need to pay their fair share in taxes. Republicans already handed out nearly two billion dollars in tax breaks with nothing guaranteed in return. Any tax break I approve comes with an enforceable promise. Real investment in community needs and good paying union jobs with a lean, accountable economic development agency with power to actually enforce the rules and let's invest in alternative energy. If a company does decide to move forward with a data center with the community, we need transparency and affordability requiring utilities to actually report who's straining our state. And we need to invest in a bigger grid so working families aren't paying the bill for corporations. And I have a bill that caps energy costs at 2% of annual income that'll help our energy burden families. And we can make reinvestments of those tax dollars that we create by funding clean energy, cutting costs and supporting jobs right here in Wisconsin. Our plan for AI data centers comes from listening to voters all across the state and treating this issue as one of labor, civil rights and economic policy. This is about using our power wisely so any data center build out benefits the public and not just billion dollar companies passing through. So a one-year moratorium on the construction of AI data centers, deleting corporate handouts and investing in alternative renewable clean energy with green new union jobs. So that's not anti-technology here. That's responsible leadership. [00:19:24] Speaker 7: I've put forth the strongest plan of any candidate in this race to stop immediately the unregulated development of data centers. We cannot allow the status quo to continue. Democrats in the legislature have proposed a bill that will regulate Dennis data centers and we can pass it immediately in January. This bill includes protections for workers for our environment, especially our water and local control and transparency because local communities deserve a say in what happens in their communities. It also includes protections for rate payers so that we aren't subsidizing the cost of new energy plants or other data center energy demands. But that's not enough. We also have to roll back these subsidies. There is no way that we should be paying data centers to come here. They should be paying us. That's why my plan will not only stop the $2 billion in estimated tax giveaways. It will also require upfront payments from every data center that wants to come to Wisconsin that's willing to meet our strong standards. They will also have to make an upfront payment of hundreds of millions of dollars. Now we will use that money to capitalize a public infrastructure bank and use that money to lend it out at 0% interest to local municipalities and school districts so that they can make clean energy upgrades like putting in a geothermal system to heat and cool the school powered by solar panels on the roof. This is going to help us get cleaner air and lower costs for our energy and be 100% clean and renewable powered by 2050. I will also establish a public negotiating team so that any community that wants to engage with data centers can do so and they won't have to go toe-to-toe with volunteer elected officials and municipal staff with the $5,000 an hour lawyers from Meta or other big tech companies. But I will say regulating data centers is not enough. We also have to regulate the underlying tech products: AI, big tech, social media. No legislator in the state has authored more legislation than I have to bring big tech to heal. All right. So at this time, [00:21:24] Kristen Brey: I would like to invite all five of our gubernatorial candidates to the stage: Mandela Barnes, Joel Brennan, David Crowley, Francesca Hong, and Kel DeRoyce. You didn't want to sit in that one? You didn't like that chair? All right. And then I'm also very pleased to welcome Milwaukee Journal Sentinel state politics reporter Jesse Opoyan to the stage who [00:21:57] Speaker 8: will lead tonight's discussion. All right. Thank you, Kristen. And thank you all for being here. And candidates, thank you for being here. Don't know what else you'd be doing right now. But we're glad you could make the time. We are really glad to see such good turnout for an issue that has obviously motivated a lot of voters in this election season. And we are going to be dividing our program tonight into a few sections where we've got a few voters in the audience who are prepared to ask us some questions. And I will conduct a few follow-ups after that. Every candidate will have one minute to respond to questions unless I indicate otherwise. hoping we don't have to have rebuttals. But if someone does, you know, invoke someone else directly, if there's something that you feel compelled to respond to, then we can give you about 30 seconds for that. So our first question, our first section is going to focus on economic development opportunities. [00:23:01] Speaker 9: And our first question will come to us from Jeff Ferris. With total U.S. capital investment and data centers plan to be over 700 million or 700 billion this year and a trillion next year. I see on your plans that put things in place, but so that Wisconsin doesn't miss out in the meantime, with a plan two and a half trillion dollars on that, and we lose out to other states in the meantime, what are your plans to attract and keep data centers in this rapidly growing, highly global, important industry? [00:23:37] Speaker 8: We can just start down the line with Mandela. It's like literally might be the first pro data [00:23:43] Speaker 3: center question I've ever gotten throughout the entirety of this campaign. And I think it's important to note because there's a lot of frustration that people have all across the state, all across the country, and it's important to recognize that frustration. Because unfortunately, tech companies, social media companies have taken advantage of individuals, have taken advantage of communities, they've exacerbated the youth mental health crises, they increased political polarization, and they've made billions and trillions of dollars doing so. And for many folks, the data center feels like a physical manifestation of all that. Now, it is important that these data center developers understand the actual realities that people have already been experiencing contaminated water, air quality issues. And without any guardrails in place, there should be no new data center construction. Communities have largely stepped up and opposed data center construction. And if the community says no, then the answer should be no. Now, what I do want to push on the developers to do is consider the concerns of communities. If you are going to build, all they're asking for you to do is to be a good neighbor. We've seen so many times where the benefits have been outweighed by the cost. And that's what the feeling is at this point, because data center construction just hasn't happened as it should be. [00:24:59] Speaker 4: So if the question is, what are we going to do and how are we going to do data centers in Wisconsin, in the Brennan administration, it would be thoughtfully, it would be intentionally, it would be with those guardrails. I have said that in the first 90 days of my administration, we wouldn't have, that I would call for a stop of approval of any new data centers. But I don't think people want us to have moratoriums into the inevitable future. I think what they want us to have is action. And they want us to have intention around this because what's happened over the last two years since Wisconsin got into the data center business is that it truly has been the wild west. And so if we are going to have data centers, we need to ensure that they have the appropriate guardrails on them environmentally around who builds it, around who pays for it, which is none of us here. And that there will never be a situation where there are non-disclosure agreements so that these things go and they're fully baked before anybody in the community knows about it. And so Wisconsin still can take advantage of some of those opportunities, but we'll do it with all of those things in place and ensuring that they're not done without any local involvement and local participation, which is what has happened too often and why people are angry and distrustful about government. First and foremost, thank you all for having me, [00:26:13] Speaker 5: and thank you for joining all of us, joining us here at Turner's Hall. So one, I agree with what was previously said, we have to make sure that there's guardrails in place. I think we should all be upset at the fact that the state legislature left without putting guardrails in place, right? Because I know we're talking about future data centers, but we already have 30 to 40 data centers here in the state of Wisconsin, and we don't have any guardrails to protect ourselves. But particularly to the question that you asked is how the economic development aspects. Now, we have tech companies all across this state, and I think that we have to figure out more and more, how do we connect entrepreneurs in Milwaukee, in Madison, in the Green Bay area, but also connect it to many of our UW schools to make sure that in the tech sector, we can help them get connected to those data centers, grow the businesses here. I don't want people getting their first check on the East Coast, the West Coast, or in Chicago. And so we're going to need a governor who can actually bring investments here to the state of Wisconsin, who is literally yelling from the mountaintops about what we have to offer here in the state of Wisconsin. But we have to protect ourselves and make sure that local units of government have the ability to amend and stop these if they don't want them. [00:27:27] Speaker 6: Thank you so much for the question. The question is about economic development and the potential opportunities missed. I believe that when the state is going to go into a financial negotiation, we have to weigh the risks and the benefits. The question I would have for the developers is how do you measure public benefit? How do you measure local control? In what ways are these investments both in the short term and long term going to actually help working class Wisconsinites dealing with one of the largest crises right now, which is rising costs and affordability. And this is something that every single Wisconsinite is contending with. You know, financial risk that takes on that's, you know, based in how we are going to be stewarding taxpayer dollars. I think it's important to avoid getting Foxconn again. I think that the metrics have to be there. And when it comes especially to workforce, that I don't want us to govern by promises to make sure that we are in the prevailing way that these are good union jobs. And I think we have a fiscal responsibility to steward taxpayer dollars to both short term and long term economic and public good. Absolutely nothing. Data center developers want to [00:28:46] Speaker 7: come here because it's cold and cooling data centers is a huge part of the cost because we have excellent workers, a great workforce, including the skilled trades that are needed to build and because our land is relatively cheap. But I am not interested in an economic development agenda that prioritizes big corporations and polluters over everyday homegrown entrepreneurs. I'm a small business owner. In fact, 13 years ago, I stood on this stage and launched my small business, which is a tech enabled company. So I am not a Ludwig by any stretch of the imagination. I think there's incredible promise with technology to make people's lives better. But under no circumstances should the power of the government and certainly our public wealth be used to subsidize the most powerful wealthy corporations in the history of the world. They need to play by our rules. They need to benefit us and not the other way around. That's going to be my philosophy. What can we do to help Wisconsin-based businesses, Wisconsin workers, Wisconsin entrepreneurs benefit from and protect ourselves from the harm that data centers development [00:29:50] Speaker 8: can cause? That was very confusing. Thank you, everyone. Yes, we do have a timekeeper down here. [00:29:57] Speaker 7: She held up the stop and the one minute signs at the same time. [00:30:01] Speaker 8: It is one minute. Okay. Thank you. We are going to move on. I don't want us to spend a ton of time on the question of moratoriums because I think we've heard from all of you on this, but we are going to start in on it. And that is, you have all been asked whether you support a moratorium on new data center construction. And there have been sort of varying degrees of yes and no and what length of time that would be. Francesca, I want to start with you and ask with your potential moratorium, what specific benchmarks would need to be met before that could be released? How would you keep that from becoming a de facto ban going forward if those benchmarks were not met? [00:30:44] Speaker 6: Francesca, I think it's important to recognize that it is a responsible fiscal decision to have a moratorium on the construction of new AI data centers, but it is also an issue of workforce and our natural resources. If we do not have enforceable mechanisms through both the public service commission and through statute that actually funds to make sure that there are penalties, we have to look at, again, both short-term and long-term economic benefit that is put on through local government, that those local governments have the resources potentially to make the decision if the community is going to move forward. But these regulations in place, when I talk about enforceable mechanisms, this is going to require funding the DNR and ensuring that we are actually able to hold polluters accountable. We have very loose environmental regulations right now, not just the financial risk, but the community risk to public health is not something that we should be taking lightly or trying to rush through. It is important that this moratorium is in place so that the construction of new AI data centers is protecting communities, natural resources, because we shouldn't be selling out [00:31:54] Speaker 8: Wisconsin to big tech. What would lead you to lift the moratorium? What sort of benchmarks would need [00:32:03] Speaker 6: to be meant for you to lift that moratorium? I think one of the most important things is to make sure that we are listening to the PSC and the Department of Natural Resources and being able to actually staff and have the people to be able to put those regulations in place. The other piece here is that this is a local control issue, and right now we don't have statute that would prevent NDAs. And so passing these laws and then making sure that, you know, this is why I want to call a special session in on the first day to look at that moratorium legislation that I introduced and have the legislature actually work with the stakeholders and trying to figure out what the most practical regulations should be. But these sorts of metrics, they have to be determined not just by local government, but I think these are where we have to have new people on the PSC as well. I'm thinking the most about public health and the metrics that actually come with making sure that, you know, our natural resources are protected. [00:33:02] Speaker 8: Joel, you've said you would be interested in a pause as well, and this is something that could probably be sorted out within a few months in your administration. Same question for you, what specific benchmarks would you be looking to have met? [00:33:12] Speaker 4: Joel, yeah, there was all kinds of stuff that Fran said there, passing legislation. I think that's what we need to do. There have been, there are drafts in the legislature that have gone through 10 or a dozen different drafts with stakeholders. These are things that have the guardrails that generally that I think we want to do around making sure that nobody here is paying for it and for the construction, operation, transmission, ultimately retirement of these things, making sure that there's real environmental teeth, ensuring that Wisconsin union labor is building it, and ensuring that ultimately there is an opportunity at the local level to do this. But like, I think the reason why people are pissed off about this, the reason why people don't believe in government is that we say we're going to do stuff and we put it off and put it up. I think what they see, what they want to see from us is legislation that does this. But what's important to do that is this doesn't have any teeth. There's no moratorium that has teeth without a legislation, legislature that is going with you, which is why it's so important that we elect a democratic majority in the state senate, state assembly. If we spend our time this fall defending candidates and their former state, the statements they've made over time and what they have done, we are not going to have a majority that's going to be able to stand with the governor and pass legislation and do things meaningfully that are going to allow us to have those guardrails and to have people who can actually start to believe again that government is going to do something for them. [00:34:31] Speaker 8: Mandela, you've also talked about a pause for a shorter length of time. What guarantees would you want to see to move forward? [00:34:38] Speaker 3: Mandela H. Yeah, so I ran across a quote that said the only public subsidies for data centers we need are for libraries. And it couldn't be more apparent about where the moment meets us currently. And I guess in the conversation about pause, about moratorium, we find ourselves in more of a semantic conversation than an actual process or legislative conversation. And, you know, all the things that Representative Hong just mentioned aren't different than what most people have been calling for on this stage. And it was also mentioned again, you know, Representative Hong said herself that a full moratorium may face legal repercussions. So it is important for us to be as smart as possible and as detailed in our approach. And the things that will stop a pause are one, no public subsidies, two, there will be no shared costs for everyday ratepayers. They have to cover all their electricity costs. There has to be a commitment to renewable energy to go back to the grid. And they also have to make sure that if they are using the water that they're using is in a closed loop system that doesn't continue to continuously extract water and potentially pollute water sources in communities. [00:35:53] Speaker 8: Calda, you have described a moratorium as a, quote, "look tough, do nothing ploy." It's a popular position though. Why do you think it's unwise? [00:36:01] Speaker 7: It's not that I think it's unwise. I think it's unfeasible because the bill that was introduced by Representative Hong has only nine supporters in the legislature. And it says we're going to pause data center development until strong regulations are passed. The strong regulation bill has 49 co-sponsors, which is a lot more than nine. And so if what you're actually interested in doing is immediately stopping the unregulated development of data centers because you find the status quo unacceptable, and I do, then what you want to do is put all your organizing energy into actually passing the strong regulations bill that the so-called moratorium says that it is seeking. I mean, I think that if you want to just yell about things on social media, that's one thing. But I'm actually interested in passing legislation. And I think Republicans are going to pay a huge price at the ballot box for having adjourned doing nothing on this issue. There were even bipartisan bills that could have passed easily, but were blocked by Republicans. So there is a real opportunity for us to get something done right away and to immediately stop what is going on. [00:37:09] Speaker 8: David, you also don't support a moratorium, but you have said that not every project should be approved automatically. What, if any, additional regulations would you like to see enacted? [00:37:19] Speaker 5: Well, I think that putting a full moratorium actually takes away local control. It actually preempts local municipalities because there may be manufacturing plants that have already been shuttered, and there may be communities who are looking to bring these in and wanting to hold them accountable. Now, I think it's what we really need to be focusing on as well is that many of the candidates up here keeps talking about future data centers. The problem I have is that we're not protecting ourselves from the data centers that are currently here in the state of Wisconsin now. And so how do we make sure we're protecting our environment, we're protecting our agriculture, we're protecting our farmers, we're protecting our people when they're already here? And I think that we should really be upset at the fact that we've allowed this to become a political football during this governor's race, when in reality, the state legislature can pass something right now, right? There's no reason why we're having these conversations when there's bills sitting in the legislature to protect us from the current 30 to 40 data centers that are operating right now. But when it comes down to new data centers, we have to make sure that we're working with the legislature and putting things in place. You know, you're not just having the DNR and the PSC say what needs to be here and what's not. We as legislators, as a governor, we need to make sure that we're putting stopgats in place. [00:38:36] Speaker 8: Thank you, everyone. We are going to take another question from the audience, from a voter, Michael Beaster. [00:38:51] Speaker 10: All right, is this on? Okay. Yeah, my name is Mike Beaster and I'm a recently elected alderman in the city of Port Washington. I got involved in local politics late last summer as our data center proposals steamrolled through necessary approvals despite local opposition. I wanted to be a voice for concerned residents, but we need help from the state and we need it now. So my question is, the Port Washington data center is one of the largest construction projects in state history, yet it didn't trigger a detailed DNR environmental impact study, which the DNR absolutely has the authority to require. So phase one construction is currently well underway. Phase two has not yet started, but it's even larger in scope. So do you envision an opportunity to make this right for the people of Port Washington with with with studies for before phase two starts? And more broadly, what would you do to specifically to provide the DNR with the proper funding and staffing to protect our natural resources for projects of this scale? I think the next year. [00:40:01] Speaker 4: Joel, we can start with you. Sure. I appreciate that question. And yes, you know, I think there is absolutely time and there is a necessity for us to look at that next phase of that project. You asked about the broader question also about the Department of Natural Resources. And the job that I had at state government as the secretary of administration in the first years of the Governor Evers administration was after eight years of Scott Walker. And I can tell you there wasn't an agency that was decimated more than the DNR. And that was starting in 2010. So for the last 16 years, we have dealt with that. And we have not been able to to do that to rebuild that in the last eight years. That's the first thing that we need to do, because if we don't have people to do that, if we don't have the ability for there to be the infrastructure inside the DNR, then more often than not, you're going to have those things. Some of these things are around politics, but some of it is around personnel. And so that's the first thing that we need to do is just ensure that we do that. Because, you know, what we have seen over the last 15 years is just an absolute decimation of those who would have the people and the talent that are there to try to make sure that we can actually hold people to account for these things. So that is absolutely one of the first things that we have to do. But making sure that we can reassess every phase of these projects is something that we need to do in the next administration. [00:41:17] Speaker 5: Go down the line. Oh, well, first and foremost, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for letting your voice be heard and communicating as much as possible. Because if I'm not mistaken, it was also a non-disclosure agreement that was it wasn't. So they just passed it. Okay, I just want to make sure because no local government should be able to have NDAs. And if they are signing NDAs, then we need to change the face of local government in the first place. But I agree. I totally agree with Joe. You know, we have to put more money into the DNR, but also make sure that there's a level of accountability. And we know that during the Scott Walker era, he pretty much stripped the Department of Natural Resources and they don't have the and they're not doing the necessary environmental protections and going out there surveying to make sure that this is right for our communities. And so I I'm a I'm a guy who loves to be outdoors. I love doing outdoor activities here in the state of Wisconsin. I believe it's one of the most precious natural resources that we have is our air and our water in our land. And so I think the DNR needs more money to make sure they're not only hiring good people, but making sure that they can hold folks accountable when they're doing any level of construction or polluting the land that we occupy. [00:42:34] Speaker 6: One of the most important things that we have to do in the budget for the Department of Natural Resources is ensure position authority that they need the staffing to support to make sure that, you know, whether it is allocating permits or making sure that we are building in funding so that local communities are not responsible for any remediation. But one of the things that is preventing us from having the PSC and other is that the definitions are so incredibly loose. The definition of public benefit this is why the moratorium is so important because we have many steps that we have to put into place before we're actually able to make sure that we're holding polluters accountable or that we are able to pause or move permits forward. And I think that when when it actually comes to giving local governments resources, ensuring that these developers are not we're not on the hook for any of the payments that we should give local governments actually legal resources to be able to take on to be able to take on these developers as well, especially when it comes to building in their own communities. The taxpayers should not be paying a dime for these developments to continue. [00:43:42] Speaker 7: Mike, congrats on your election. Executive power. Yes. On day one, I will direct the Department of Natural Resources to aggressively restore environmental law and order in the state. I'm a lawyer by training, and I believe that we have to stop rubber stamping permits and letting big polluters get away with polluting on the front end with absolutely no oversight. We had Supreme Court cases about this, and they were decided long ago, plenty of time to actually tell our state agencies, hey, go ahead and start protecting the public, start doing your mission, which at the DNR's case should be following the evidence, protecting all of our health and protecting our environment, especially our air and our water. So that is one reason that I've said I have the strongest plan to stop the unregulated development of data centers because I'm going to be very aggressive about using executive power. By the way, it also applies to the PSC. I want to give credit where credit is due. They did recently come down with a decision to allow for differential rates, meaning that the big guys pay higher rates per kilowatt than the rest of us, but we need to do a lot more than that. And all of us are running for governor, but last night in the debate, I was the only one who mentioned actually using executive power to go after existing data centers. [00:45:02] Speaker 3: So I spent most of my time in office promoting environmental justice, and this could not be a more apparent issue when it comes to the issue of environmental justice. I want to thank you for stepping up the run. I always tell people that if you are that frustrated, if you aren't getting the response from your elected officials, that you should absolutely step up the run. So thank you for showing up and swimming upstream because I know it's still a battle. I know you are still in a fight every single day, whether it's big money interests or politicians who have been bought off. And to that point, I can't say anything else that hasn't already been said about having tough environmental regulations to the Department of Natural Resources. But when we talk about those guardrails that need to be in place before a pause is lifted, everything that we come up with through legislation should also be retroactively applied to existing data centers. Again, how much are we going to continue to sell out to big tech? They already have all of our personal info, all of our data. They're using it to make even more money and they're using it to turn us against one another as well. And having these data centers feels like just one of the most egregious acts at this point, especially as they disregard our quality of life. [00:46:14] Speaker 8: Thanks, everyone. As some of you have alluded to, there was some discussion in the legislature in session over how or if at all to regulate data center development. The Republican bill that moved forward for a vote in the assembly and didn't move forward in the Senate, one of the hangups that it encountered along the way was that some of the language in it was becoming outdated even as it was being debated and thinking specifically about the water cooling functions. But there were a few efforts to amend and it sort of kept coming up that the bill itself might not be matching with the current technology. I'm wondering how you would enact policies that protect the state's natural resources without putting language on the books that's going to have to be constantly updated as technology continues to rapidly develop. And we'll start with data this time. [00:47:05] Speaker 5: Well, one is understanding of a lot of the technology that is out there. I know that there is some technology, for example, making sure that they don't continuously utilize water to cool off these data centers. There is ways that they can cool off different types of chips without actually using water. The only reason why I know that is I know somebody in the Navy and that's how they cool off the chips in the submarine. But we have to protect ourselves. At the end of the day, we need to make sure that it's broad enough to where we don't have to continuously update the laws that are on the books. And I remember when we were updating -- oh, I'm forgetting. I'm not even going to go there. We were updating some laws because there was K2. And K2 had a different type of compound constantly. And we had to make sure that we were passing something that wouldn't allow different iterations of K2 to come into the state of Wisconsin. And so we can pass laws broad enough to understand what the evolving technology looks like in the future. But it's extremely important that we're bringing these folks to the table, not the data centers that we're speaking directly to, but some of the folks who understand this technology and what's in the future to make sure that we're protecting ourselves. This is why the moratorium is so [00:48:17] Speaker 6: critical that these types of definitions, how we are going to continue to update the law, what sort of statutes and definitions need to be in place for the Public Service Commission to measure which sort of phases can move forward. I think that this is the reality of governing sometimes is that there is that bureaucracy and we will need to bring everyone together if we are going to do this right. And I think what's also important here is that there can be a moratorium moving forward does not mean that we are going to be in legal troubles if because it's not interrupting existing projects. But again, this sort of development and how we are going to regulate it has to be a serious conversation working with multiple agencies, working with labor leaders, ensuring that for local communities, they have resources to be able to actually dictate to us what kind of statutes they need to meet their ordinances. The moratorium, again, is not only the fiscally responsible thing to do, but looking statutorily moving forward, you know, the state is going to continue, will continue to have to come together to update different AI definitions and what sort of how we can make sure that we're actually protecting taxpayers and our natural resources first. This is what administrative rules are for. [00:49:35] Speaker 7: Your values and your frameworks go in the statutes and those get passed by the legislature and then you let the experts at the agency implement them and create rules so that you can make sure that they are easy to be updated. And as technology changes, if the framework is we want clean air, we don't want any diversion of water or any pollution, that's in the statute. And then the details about how that gets done go in the administrative code that the agency does. For me, the values framework is technology has to work for us, not the other way around. Any benefits need to be broadly shared, not just privatized. We need to align risk and reward so we're not going to give anybody any liability exemptions like we did with internet companies and have created this whole social media garbage ecosystem because they can get away with whatever they want. And we need to have our strong state standards and local control over the development of this. I, you know, this is why the details matter. You don't need a lawyer for everything, but it really, really helps to have somebody as governor who is willing to use power to make change, even if it makes some people mad. We see what Republicans do when they get power. They just use it to destroy our rights. We need Democrats who are willing to use power to help us and protect us. [00:50:58] Speaker 3: So the details absolutely matter. And thank you for bringing it up because there are a lot of things that get said that make us feel good and things that make us feel like change is going to happen. But unfortunately, without actual details, without actual plans, we all end up harmed in the process in the long run. Now, whether it's building codes that these data centers will have to abide by that need to be updated, that happens at the agency level. Whether it is standards that are put into place, again, through legislation, there are mechanisms to ensure that they are updated with the next generation technology as it emerges. And, you know, so often legislation and regulation does not keep up with technology. That's the reason why we are in the situation we're in with big tech right now. But Wisconsin has to show some real leadership, especially as the specific data center continues to emerge, continues to draw bipartisan, nonpartisan ire. All we're asking, again, is for these companies to be good neighbors? And I don't think that's too much to ask at all. There certainly are and will be things [00:52:09] Speaker 4: that change, but there are absolutes. There are absolutes like there should be no non-disclosure agreements and we should make sure we can be able to do that immediately. There are absolutes about Wisconsin moving forward on renewables, beating that meeting that 2050 target, putting some real teeth in that and actually passing legislation as opposed to having that serve as an executive order that will only be as good as the paper that's written on under that governor. There are so there are those absolutes that we should do. The other thing that is hugely important in this is and I don't think anybody's mentioned it in this question is who you appoint to the public service commission. It is one of the least known. It's kind of a black box for many people outside of state government, but it is one of the most powerful entities inside state government and some of the most important appointments that we are going to make. And so people who understand that there is a balance between the utilities and the public and that that balance has been broken for a generation, like those are the people who we need at the public service commission. We need the allies who are working on the public to at least have some resources that allow them to have a fighting chance against the utilities when they are going to argue these rate cases. Like those are the things that we can do that are about legislation, but it's about how things change and evolve over time and it's the people you surround yourself with. Thank you. This is a yes or no, but [00:53:25] Speaker 8: you can elaborate. Should the state offer any incentives to bring data center development to Wisconsin? [00:53:37] Speaker 7: No. You can say more if you want, but you don't have to. No. Absolutely not. Right. They want to come here. I think we should make Wisconsin a place where people want to start businesses and grow businesses. We should make it a great place for people to want to live young people to be able to pursue education, buy a house, start a family. We can do all those things. And I believe if we make it a great place where people want to live, then we are going to have a thriving economy. And that's what's going to help create the labor force here in Wisconsin that will make data centers continue to want to come here as they already do. But under no circumstances, should we as taxpayers be subsidizing the wealthiest, most powerful corporations in the history of the planet? These big tech oligarchs, they have broken our economy. They're taking home a larger share of the wealth than at any point in history. They have in many ways broken our politics and made it even harder for us to solve the challenges that are facing us. And we cannot let them break our state. [00:54:41] Speaker 3: But again, no, why are we making billionaires even richer? This is how we created the world's first trillionaire. Giving away our money, our resources, everything we have is going to them. Our natural resources, our actual dollars and our data. Our physical person and our digital footprint. It all belongs to them. And so the idea that we will make them even more wealthy is so insane to me. This isn't some works progress administration stuff we're talking about here, where the construction is in the interest of the public good. This is just to make more money for a handful of people. And it is one of the biggest transfers of wealth we will ever experience if we continue to dish out money. Give the money where it should be going. And I made the I talked about the quote like the public or the data centers we should be subsidizing our libraries. And I truly meant that because we need a more educated society. We need people who understand what's going on so that they can eventually step up in the positions of leadership and actually be trusted with guiding the public whether you're in office or whether you're a non-profit or [00:55:58] Speaker 4: business leader. I'd say not to the tune of a billion and a half dollars that's already gone in there and not to the tune of the 400 million dollars annually that we're going to miss out. But not entirely am I going to say no to that either because there are ways that we can incentivize these organizations and hold them accountable for employment for what they're doing in communities, things like that. Jim Gaylord is a guy who trains people to work in Amani and Metcalf Park neighborhood not that far from here. He is training people and some of those people who are coming out of our correctional facilities because he thinks they ultimately can work on projects like data centers. Like those are things we need to make sure that we at least keep an eye on because this is ultimately about employment. These corporations are spending 700 billion dollars this year if we spent about 10% of that upgrading the grid nationally we could operate a third more efficiently and save everybody money and we could put people to work doing that. So can we collect money from them you know if there's incentives to them are they going to pay us up front to do some of that work so we can do whatever we can to upgrade the and enhance the grid in Wisconsin like that's a long-term benefit for us that everybody we get employment benefit, we get long-term savings out of it, we operate more efficiently, we do better by the climate, those are the types of things that there are things where everybody can win. So I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and just say no, I'm going to make sure that we actually govern in a way that's responsible, smart and effective. I believe that excuse me, I believe [00:57:27] Speaker 5: that any time we give any level of tax incentive and that it needs to make sure that it benefits the state of Wisconsin. It needs to be tied towards hiring and it needs to be ties towards income and it needs to be tied towards making sure that we are not giving up the farm because we believe this is going to be the greatest thing here in the state of Wisconsin and so we shouldn't be subsidizing any data centers to the tune of a billion and a half or what we're going to be giving them every single year we say 400 million and so no we shouldn't be doing that but it's not just data centers that we should be looking at. We should be looking at all the companies that are taking tax incentives from the state of Wisconsin and holding them accountable. Can I expand? [00:58:06] Speaker 6: We had not only Foxconn that put taxpayers on the hook and compromised our natural resources but the sales tax exemptions that we have given to existing data centers has totaled up to over two billion dollars. We cannot afford to make mistakes again when it comes to compromising public health, our natural resources, our local and state economies. Calling for a moratorium is not to disincentivize economic development but it is actually wielding not just the power of the executive and what we could do with it but the power of what communities are actually saying. That people are coming together in opposition to this because they understand that the scale and scope in which these developments continue to grow requires coming together across party lines, across generational lines, across geography and so the organizing for whether it was the moratorium legislation that I introduced or the other pieces of legislation that Democrats have come together on, it is it is a matter of urgency to make sure that we do this right especially when we know how to do this wrong. I've got to like just expand for [00:59:16] Speaker 3: a second because again these companies aren't broke they're trillion dollar companies that's a thousand billion dollars and how many people's school districts have had to go to referendum just keep the lights on and so when we talk about the potential for product provided subsidies or if we talk about lifting a pause yeah maybe when people have to or get a chance to not have to vote to raise their own property taxes to keep the doors of the school open maybe then we can have that conversation but I think it's a priorities mismatch that doesn't just exist here in Wisconsin but all across the country that just makes again wealthy people more wealthy. We have to make sure we're being smart because even [00:59:53] Speaker 5: before Foxconn we had Talgo right and Governor Doyle accepted the dollars for us to take in the train and when Governor Walker came in what did he do he stopped the project and when he stopped that project it forced they sued us we not only had to give back 800 million dollars but we got sued by Talgo and they won 200 million dollars from us and we had to send them the trains that we built right here in Milwaukee County so we have to make sure that we're paying attention to the entire gamut of our history [01:00:21] Speaker 3: when we're talking about these data that's not the same the a train is to get people from point a to point b that's a public good a public service something that everybody uses we're talking about [01:00:30] Speaker 5: again what I'm saying is that when you sign on the dotted line and we have a contract in place if we breach the contract you will have to pay those dollars back it's just not the same you know the state can [01:00:40] Speaker 7: pass laws I mean to Joel's point about about workers right now these data centers are functionally using unions to build political support um and they're they're paying unions but make no mistake that if they ever get the chance and we see this in states all over the country they will screw over the workers the first chance they get and that that is why we have to not be shy about using power and passing laws that say no we don't have to pay you to make sure that you pay workers a fair wage or that it's prevailing wage or that you're going to use Wisconsin union workers first we just have to set down the statutory standard and say do it and they will still want to come here and if they don't if they're not willing to meet [01:01:26] Speaker 3: our environmental and labor standards via condios into that point they are already cutting unions out of [01:01:31] Speaker 4: the mix anyway exactly and one just one more since I had the back and forth here isn't this fun the volley here for a second but almost everybody just to remind people that this is not the first time we have dealt with this and a number of people have mentioned Foxconn for the first year of the Evers administration on a day-to-day basis my job was to figure out if there was any there there in Foxconn we figured out very quickly that they were much better at putting out press releases that they were ever going to do putting out flat panel screens and so you know we were able to limit that liability from three billion dollars down to less than 80 million dollars and treat that like everything else like that's what we should be doing we need to be in a position where we have tough people tough negotiators being on the front lines being in a position so that we are not expecting that when Donald Trump and Scott Walker come telling us that this is the eighth winner of the world that we are expecting that we can blindly believe that we are growing our own here and investing in what we can do in Wisconsin [01:02:27] Speaker 8: okay we like a little back and forth we've got time but we are going to move on now this one probably has a little more agreement but we we have heard I think a lot of the early conversation about concerns from the local level with data centers is what's it going to do to the water but we are also hearing concerns about noise and light pollution curious what each of you would seek for the state to do to try to mitigate that at the local level and I think Calda you're first [01:02:53] Speaker 7: when this issue started bubbling up one of the first things I did was reach out to some of the organizers that are doing local organizing early on in in this fight and I talked to a woman who you know had bought a beautiful little house that was supposed to be your family's forever home and they had a year-round in this fight and they had a small town creek that flows through the back of it and then one day the creek was gone and then there was like white chalky substance and basically it has never returned and that's how she found out that a data center was coming to her community I've heard from other people that they find out because all of a sudden there's trucks going up and down the road spewing dust dust I heard from another family that they found out because they drove home one day and the the tree line of pine trees you know 100 year old pines was just clear cut to make way for a new transmission line this is totally unacceptable and that's why giving local communities not just the specific municipality where the data center wants to go but all the surrounding communities that are going to be effective giving them real negotiating power to say no or hell no or only like this is essential [01:04:08] Speaker 3: I mean what would anybody give up their water for I don't know how much more you know I even had to elaborate here like these are companies that can figure it out like these are titans of industry they figured out how to even craft artificial intelligence they should absolutely know how to be able to do so without using as much water as they've been using like the in the horror stories even if they haven't you know landed here in Wisconsin yet the examples are very apparent in Memphis and uh other cities and typically it's the most disadvantaged communities that are going to bear the brunt of this they're not going to go build a data center right in the middle of the most wealthy suburb you could imagine you know why don't these uh tech CEOs have the data center right in their own backyards because most of them do have yards that are big enough to house a data center but they will not because of the impact that they want to [01:05:02] Speaker 4: place on us yeah and um it's water it's noise it is like there are things we can do you know the diesel generators that are created as part of these that spew out like replacing that with battery or other things using technology like all of this is about technology and under and I've had conversations throughout the campaign I'm guessing many of us have with people who's who are looking at ways that technology can start to mitigate some of the externalities some of the negative externalities from data centers like there are people who are working on these things and we ought to continue to promote those things even as we are putting all those things in place now the one thing I want I know this is a conversation about data centers as much as possible but we have we have obligations and other things that like I was in the town of Campbell and it's a place for the last five years where because of PFAS they have been drinking bottled water that the DNR comes in with every month and two years ago the state passed legislation and provided money to start dealing with PFAS almost none of that money has been spent so this is also about just overall government execution when we have problems when we have environmental challenges we need to be in a position where we can actually execute on those things because you know you think you're mad about data centers what have you been drinking bottled water for the last five years and they tell you now it's going to be two more years because we've had this money and we haven't done anything with it talk about reasons why people distrust government that's the kind of stuff we got to get rid of can you repeat the question [01:06:32] Speaker 8: the question was actually about noise and light pollution okay okay so one I mean that's working [01:06:40] Speaker 5: directly with your local municipalities right noise and light pollution looks different depending on where you are and the reason why I say that is because noise and light pollution in the city of Milwaukee is much different than what it is in Marinette it's much different than what it is in Wausau or or or in Port Washington and so we have to make sure local municipalities your local leadership has the ability to actually say yay or nay on what is happening if I'm not mistaken it was a 24-hour permit that was put in Port Washington and they were literally working day and night and after so many complaints they finally said we're pulling that permit and said you're going to stop at a certain point and so you have to make sure that your local municipalities your local units of government has the ability to stop these permits if they're going to be doing either any other type of light or noise pollution [01:07:32] Speaker 6: there is a lot of research and studies that are being done when it comes to how we measure air and light pollution with these ai data centers and we have to continue to fund that research to actually be able to come up with the metrics and understanding what the state can do there is so much we do not know when it comes to remediation when it comes to how we are going to build the systems to make sure the local governments have what they need when at times we don't know what that need is yet again the this isn't the buzzword the moratorium is because we have so many unknowns when it comes to how we are going to protect ourselves putting the money into understanding from public health experts from researchers who are doing this type of measuring of light pollution and noise pollution we need the time to actually bring those folks to the table to make sure statutes are in place to help protect local governments and that we have a better understanding of how those statutes and the rules administrative rules and definitions in law have to evolve if we are going to continue to be able to protect ourselves from the data centers [01:08:43] Speaker 8: thanks everyone feels like a good time for another audience question peg shaffer [01:08:57] Speaker 11: good evening my name is peg shaffer i'm with midwest environmental advocates a statewide nonprofit environmental law center and my question is about the retirement of coal-fired power plants only a few short years ago wisconsin's largest utility companies had committed to accelerated timelines for phasing out the use of coal excuse me coal in favor of cheaper cleaner fuels fast forward to today and those same utilities are backtracking they have repeatedly announced delays in the planned retirement of coal-fired power plants citing reliability concerns and growing electricity demand from data centers as governor what actions would your administration take to hold utilities accountable and to keep wisconsin on track to retire coal-fired power plants back to you so yeah i got my start actually [01:10:03] Speaker 3: as an organizer taking on these large uh utility companies for the impact of coal burning power plants on low-income and black and brown communities and did this as a part of the cleaner valley coalition and we won and the fact is these utility companies we thought were going to be held accountable but the teeth were not there to ensure that these utility companies would actually continue to play or play by the rules and meet their commitments and i can tell you there's not a single person who's going to be more committed to ensuring that our department of natural resources and the public service commission does exactly what they need to do to hold these utility companies accountable i'm the only candidate on the stage who's called for freezing the race i'm the only candidate who's drawn the ire from utility companies because of my bold stance against them there is one candidate on the stage who's also getting money from utility companies so it'd be rather hard to trust that this person is actually going to follow through and do the right thing to hold these utility companies accountable i have uh done a great job of making enemies with them and i don't want to be enemies with them because obviously these are the industries that power our homes i want us to work together but that doesn't mean they get to get over [01:11:14] Speaker 4: on us they also have to play by the rules yeah and you know i think what's clear we have seen the trump administration like forcing utilities to keep coal fired plants open in the last couple of days the epa has passed laws that would say that if you're uh a data center if you're creating energy for a data center you're like you're going to not have to follow any clean air regulations like we know we are not getting any help from our partners at the federal level on this and so we have to take the whatever stances we can one at the very macro level is that in every other state around us in the states of wisconsin there is a mandate to get to uh carbon neutral by 2050 and in wisconsin we have and i was proud to be alongside him when he did it the governor signed an executive order that sets that as a target for us but we need to make sure we pass that into law we need to make sure that there is a democratic majority in the assembly the senate we pass that and we hold ourselves accountable not just to 2050 but benchmarks before that like those are the types of things that we can do we can set a tone and you know as i mentioned before with the appointments we make to the psc that it is not just going to be carte blanche it is going to be uh where there is balance between the public and what the utilities want when matters come before the psc including the retirement of those coal-fired plants as quickly as we can one of the biggest [01:12:36] Speaker 5: problems with the laws that govern the psc is that it's the laws are older than the way that we generate power and distribute power today and it's extremely important that we allow the legislation that governs the psc to include affordability to include climate change and to include pollution to make sure that those three things can actually be factored in when rate cases are being decided but we also need a cooling off period we need a cooling off period for any of our commissioners so when they leave the psc they just can't go work for any of these utility companies we need to protect the integrity of the psc and and and i know you know the former lieutenant governor talks about you know freezing utility rates i think that's a short-term fix for a long but doesn't address the long-term problems you know by freezing the rates you're basically saying that we're going to burn more coal and there's only one other candidate i know that says to do that which is tom tiffin and so it's extremely important that we actually hold these utility companies accountable and allow the laws that govern the psc to have more [01:13:37] Speaker 3: teeth in it to hold them accountable you would be against freezing the rates because you are getting money from utility companies [01:13:47] Speaker 6: utility companies and that accountability they need to come with the receipts and auditing requirements and reporting requirements and i believe that this is ultimately a public health issue when we are seeing coal power pence and that pollution rates go up and i would like to see public health experts actually on the public service commission and with those reporting requirements for the psc it will help us again put in the definitions needed to talk about what is a public good and what is a benefit and those two billion dollars in tax exemptions that right now our current data centers have that is money that we should be investing into a green bank to make sure that not only are we doing the research when it comes to clean energy infrastructure but that we're putting that into work now that we're building clean energy infrastructure with green new jobs and again it shouldn't be harder for a mom with two kids who's a single mom to get future than it is for utility companies to come up to the psc and raise rates and we also must be proactive about protecting our families who are energy burdened now which is why i introduced the two percent rate cap bill to ensure that no family is paying more than two percent of their annual [01:14:55] Speaker 7: income uh on utility bills cleaner energy cheaper uh cheaper energy and clean air i need more than 60 seconds because this is a very fact specific question i have very detailed plans on my website that you can check out to see exactly how we're going to bring coal-fired power plants offline quickly the fastest cheapest new source for sources of energy are wind and solar and i'll add geothermal in there too we also need to double down on conservation and efficiency but there is a lot that we can do to meet increased demand without building new natural gas power plants and still allowing us to take the coal-fired ones offline increase grid utilization using grid enhancing technology so that we have less uh less loss we can require integrated resource planning essentially cooperation amongst the utility companies we can make use of virtual power plants right there's so much that we can do some of it enabled by modern technology and ai to actually make better use of what we're already generating and to waste less this is absolutely within our reach but again the details matter and who is on the psc making these decisions absolutely matters and that's why we need people who are going to be watchdogs for consumers for public health and for the environment and not simply like what we had [01:16:16] Speaker 8: under governor walker lap dogs for the utilities thank you i know one of you mentioned earlier that the psc did recently approve a large large very large customer uh tariff rate um that's going to face legal challenges what if anything beyond that can a governor do to ensure that utilities do pay their fair fair share or sorry the data centers large data centers do pay their fair share and i go first right and [01:16:45] Speaker 4: and we've already said on legislatively there are things that we can do to make sure that we have the environmental regulations we have the teeth there that uh that there are requirements that they have to meet but but even what they did at the psc part of the reason why i think we need to keep looking at this legislatively that that uh excludes the transmission cost there's up to over the next few years like a hundred million dollars of transmission costs because it's atc and they're regulated more at the federal level than at the the state level as are the utilities like those are things that are still that could be borne by consumers and borne by taxpayers in wisconsin so yes that one case was valuable and that is a model for us to follow but that model needs to be done where there's a model that we can follow legislatively and not on a case-by-case basis and we need to make sure that it's not just about construction and operation but also transmission because that's one of the other areas where consumers are still going to face additional costs and and you know this is an issue the whole campaign is around affordability and anything that that you start to see on your utility bill and when you're deciding to pay utility bill instead of payer prescription drugs like those are the things that people are talking about around their kitchen table and those are real in wisconsin those are [01:17:57] Speaker 5: the stakes that we are we have this fall i mean at the end of the day it's it's getting the legislature to actually pass legislation but if we if we're not able to get the legislature to focus on these utility companies then we have to get them to focus on these data centers and so i always say that these data centers they need to bring their own new clean energy they should be building the batteries they should be building you know the wind the solar because the energy that i love the most the ones that i don't have to pay for right and it comes from it comes it comes naturally you know from the wind and from the solar and so at the end of the day we not only need to focus on how do we push utility companies to do more renewables but as data centers pay into the focus on energy as well let's use that money to push more projects out the door let's hire more people to put more clean energy energy infrastructure out there but i also think that the data centers should also subsidize our energy because there's only so much money that we can use so let's use that money to pay down the rates of everybody across the state [01:18:57] Speaker 6: i believe the question is about what the governor can do the governor can call in a special session to take up legislation that would call for a moratorium the governor can wield executive power but also direct um but also direct the wisconsin economic development corporation to look at restructuring how they are giving out different types of tax exemptions the governor can also be an organizer the governor has one of the largest microphones across the state and as someone who is continuing to travel across the state hearing from communities about the concerns around these data centers developer i think there is a responsibility of the governor to make sure that we are responding with action plans and what the legislature can do i was incredibly grateful to have been able to go to wisconsin rapids earlier this year and i wasn't there just to talk about the campaign i was there talking about how we can organize and educating more members of the community and what was happening in helping folks understand the process in which local government operates and i think that it is incredibly important that again this process is not only thoughtful but that we are bringing in uh all of the experts and making sure that we do this right if we are going to move forward with it probably the most important thing that [01:20:12] Speaker 7: the governor can do to make sure that we don't end up subsidizing in any way data center power or grid upgrades is to appoint psc commissioners who are committed to preventing that from happening and then staffing and funding the public service commission we all have an interest in having a strong energy grid and having plentiful secure clean energy now and into the future all of us require energy might be a little over air conditioned in here but we all need that but what we don't need to do is spend a bunch of extra money building new infrastructure that may well be obsolete in a few years and what we absolutely don't need to do is pay the highest guaranteed rate of returns to monopolies that are created by government i mean utilities should be able to have a rate of return but not one that is so far above what we are seeing in other states there is a lot that the governor can absolutely do but the other thing i want to do is fund the citizens utility board because they are supposed to be our watchdogs at the psc and make sure that the staff are actually able to take the time to sort through with the claims that utility companies and data center developers are making and say that's not passing the smell test we're not [01:21:26] Speaker 3: going to give you that so when i initially put out my rate plan i talked about making sure that we're going to have public service commissioners who are going to make choices decisions in the interest of the public everybody act like i lost my mind or something by saying as much and it's like if you're appointing a judge you are likely appointing someone who's going to uphold the rule of law if you appoint a cabinet secretary to the dnr it's going to be or it should be a person with some sort of background and natural resources a person who's going to actually be a good steward of land air water if you're appointing someone to oversee the department of revenue you would think it's going to be a person who is going to you know commit to a more fair tax system in this state like it is not out of the box to have a screening process the people who are applying to be public service commissioners you will want them to be folks who have demonstrated a commitment to energy specifically clean energy as will be the case in my administration but also in the interest of one public safety but also making sure that it is the public's interest that has always been put first in rate payers and good customer service i should say [01:22:42] Speaker 8: time for our final audience question terry sinkis hello i'm terry skinkis and i actually do work on the [01:22:57] Speaker 12: port washington site many of the environment environmental cons related arguments made by people who oppose the data centers doesn't really stand up when it's fact checked it as far as a true volume of water uh it appears that the fear of ai not the facts is driving the uh backlash if elected governor if elected governor would you make policy decisions uh based on facts or in science or fear public fear and sorry i'm a little bit nervous no problem at all that [01:23:40] Speaker 5: do it yeah okay um i'm going to base it off with facts and science that's how i base all all of my decisions and i think it's extremely important that whoever the governor is is going to be a leader in making sure that we are educating the public about what is really out there and i think that's extremely important in this age that we live in we see people utilizing ai and misinformation and disinformation to try to get their way every single day and so we have to make sure that we're doing our due diligence to bring as much information that is accurate and timely as possible but it's important that when people have their concerns and they're sitting at the table that we actually listen we understand where people are coming from and work with them to make sure that we're not just stringing them along and lying to them and shoving anything down their throats we need to make sure that we're working hand in hand with our community no matter what decisions we're making [01:24:31] Speaker 6: absolutely we'll be a governor that ensures that we are governing and that we are rooting our statues in facts and science i think that you know many of the misinformation or disinformation the the noise around what is happening with ai data centers right now a lot of it is deeply rooted in fear because communities are deeply impacted and what we're thinking about is you know i'm also thinking about the facts that we want to make sure that if these are construction jobs that they are wisconsin union jobs that we are making sure that we are repealing act 10 that we're making workers rights and wisconsin a state that puts workers first that we're all collectively coming together to push that forward but i think when it comes to leadership especially i want to make sure that i'm surrounding myself with the folks who know the facts even better than i do that there is expertise when it comes to public health when it comes to the research and in what the actual environmental impacts are how are we going to fund and pay for testing the environmental impacts i want to make sure that the infrastructure that we are building to make sure this is a worker first development and that it is protecting all of the public good i absolutely want to make sure that i've got folks way smaller than i am sometimes at the table with me [01:25:53] Speaker 7: that's such a great and appropriate question terry because we are living in kind of a fact-free political universe like facts don't matter uh knowledge doesn't matter how well prepared people are doesn't really matter you can pretty much say whatever you want and kind of get away with it and that's garbage that's a horrible way to have a democracy the best democracy money can buy don't take my word on my promise that i will make decisions based on facts and based on evidence and not what feels good in the moment not to be the most popular girl on reddit because that's the way that i've led throughout my whole career back in 2011 i was one of the first candidates in the country to say i'm not going to take corporate PAC money to fund my campaigns i got left out of a lot of rooms right but i thought it was the right thing to do earlier this year uh robin voss cooked up a deal and got the governor to agree to it i was the first person to speak out and say this is a bad deal for schools and for taxpayers we can't afford it and we shouldn't do it that money all belongs to our kids and i got a lot of blowback on doing it but it was the right thing to do and i am willing to do the right thing even when it is politically hard and that's the kind of leadership and independence that wisconsin deserves in a governor and by the way it's the opposite of tom tiffany [01:27:13] Speaker 3: leading with the science is most important thing that we can do and it's the thing that has happened the least and i also just don't want to get us to a place where gaslighting people who had to deal with the worst impacts of the presence of a data center if a person is talking about light pollution and noise pollution not not just a person the community brings up these concerns i do think that they are valid and the most the best jobs we can create are the jobs that benefit everybody and i want us to consider like what job growth should look like and for so long the job growth that has happened has contributed to economic activity has unfortunately negatively impacted communities like we we've seen this story so many times i want us to have the best union jobs and i wouldn't be on this stage if we're not for my parents union jobs my commitment is there but i do want to make sure that we are actually doing this work together and there's been a very real tension between building trades unions and environmental groups that is a very real thing and i think for us to actually come up with solutions to answer the questions we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room when it comes to that we can create good paying jobs by doing the right thing and that's what i want to challenge all of us to do as governor you have to set the precedent and you have to lead with that sort of forward thinking [01:28:37] Speaker 4: put me down for facts and science and and i'll tell you you know in some ways you and people who are working on data centers have been hung out to dry and you kind of on a limb because the state has left you hanging out to dry and has put none of those guardrails and look you know there is anxiety about ai everywhere my son is in the back of the room with one of his best friends two great kids they're 19 years old i am anxious for what the world is that they're going to inherit from us in lots of different ways because of ai because what we've done to the environment because of the scarred world that we live in where truth doesn't matter so we need to make sure that we're doing that and and there are lots of ways in which we inflame passions all the time but i just want everybody here to know you know you are not hiring an activist in chief we're selecting a governor and sometimes that's about sober judgment that's not about carrying along it's not about inciting people it's about standing back it's about standing above the fray and trying to make sure that you are toning down that where you can be somebody who can provide comfort when there's a tornado in menasha where you can be on site and be the person who is there who says government is going to be there to help like that's sometimes what we need from government not just to stick it to people we need to make sure that we have the right amount of balance when we're doing that in every issue that we're dealing with [01:29:58] Speaker 6: terry i just would like to say um so i had an opportunity to go to nina and go to a training site and there were new apprentices who were working on job sites including schools and including different local municipal buildings and they looked at me straight on and said why are you opposed to data centers why do you want to take away my jobs you know it was a very um it was a really difficult conversation i don't know how many barriers we were able to break down but i do know that no one should ever have to choose in making those difficult decisions about what could potentially be happening to the water and your air and being able to make sure that the bills are being paid right now i know there have been folks who have paid off their entire mortgages working on these sites but that's why it's so important to fix a rigged system and push for bold ideas where we make sure that we are putting working class people first i think we can continue to have these conversations and make sure that we're creating the jobs that won't put us in this situation where we are pitting our communities against one another [01:31:03] Speaker 8: i've got maybe one or two quick ai questions left and i'm going to just throw out a little grab bag before i've got you up here too i can't lift you off that easy but uh i do want to know i mean i think all of us use ai in ways that we're not even aware of because it's everywhere um but thinking about things where you are making a voluntary choice so like chat dpt clod transcription services scheduling do you use ai in your personal life and in what way and does your campaign have a policy on the use of ai in terms of campaigning materials or activities i think yeah right um our campaign team i'm incredibly [01:31:44] Speaker 6: proud to say doesn't have we don't use any ai in our communications in our graphics we're really proud to have amazing designers and artists and volunteers who continue to create really beautiful designs and graphics for us um i think that personally i you know i use chat gpt to check grammar when i'm writing remarks and i will say that it's incredibly important right now to make sure and and we get called out actually on social media and i welcome that conversation because i want to then reiterate how important it is to support our artists and in terms of policy moving forward i would encourage people to check out firewall and labor shift because we do have to think about in the era of ai what does it look like to protect our workers from unfair layoffs and make sure that we're protecting consumer data and these sort of policies are evolving very quickly and i will just say that our one of our staffers was actually laid off by tech at a startup company after she had built up their marketing forms it is incredibly important that the state prepare to make sure we have cause of action in place for what i think is going to be massive layoffs across the state and to protect our workers regardless of what industry they are in [01:33:05] Speaker 7: so i do use ai sometimes and i you know i think like most people do and sometimes i'm really frustrated because when i just want to do a google search uh ai comes and i try to get rid of it um on a personal note my my stepdad had a lung transplant in january and using ai actually helped me and my family coordinate care for him and figure out how to navigate and think about the risks and what his life was going to be like after the transplant so i think there are some really powerful use cases for ai that said um i really try not to use it and i absolutely don't want my kids using it i think we should have a zero ai policy up through at least high school and we need to really teach people how to do critical thinking spell check is one thing but outsourcing our actual critical thinking capacities is going to be the death of our democracy and we we just cannot allow it on the campaign side we also you use canva and and we have actual humans responding to comments we do not use ai for that absolutely not [01:34:15] Speaker 3: um it's very rarely like senator roy's mentioned like you do a search and the ai response comes back up or oftentimes if i need to check my own wording make sure i'm saying something right that's super factual you might run it through the ai wash but other than that i mean definitely not any sort of graphics from the campaign or any ai chatbot responses either i just looked around um probably [01:34:43] Speaker 4: a good place to admit that i'm the son of two journalists now they great they graduated from journalism school about 75 years ago so you know so but but communications was always important in my household and so i'd like to think that most of the things that i create are my own i will throw something into google and and have something in chat gpt every once in a while my guess is i've seen a memo that somebody has thrown into chat gpt from time to time but but generally what what i think what we try to create is our own now one thing i will tell you in in state government there is a level of sophistication around what thieves are doing what people are praying on you know i don't think that we should eliminate the need to use technology as a bulwark against what people are doing what people are you know we uh adults older adults being scammed out of their life savings or people who are getting a dozen phone calls a day like if there are ways that we can use smart things use technology inside state government to protect people to ensure that that they're going to be safer those are things i think we ought to do we we can't let this spin out of control but but there are people who are using that for dastardly purposes so if there's ways for us to use technology to do right by people we can't stick our heads in the ground on that we need to make sure we're making every use of that in government [01:35:59] Speaker 5: as we can our campaign is not utilizing ai for any responses related to social media or any graphics i'll just be honest with you i hate when people use me in artificial intelligence graphics because it's never who i am it never gives me the the the proper uh picture of who i am and when i do use chat gp or chat gpt or claw the problem i have with utilizing them is always got to check its work i don't know about you all but sometimes you're not getting the most accurate information uh utilizing artificial intelligence and so we don't we don't use it as much on our campaign and i definitely try to keep [01:36:37] Speaker 8: it away from my three daughters as well okay this should be an easy one maybe do you all and you can just raise your hand do you believe that every single one of you sitting on this stage can be tom tiffany in november any single one of you yes okay say more [01:37:02] Speaker 3: maybe i hope i hope we can answer that question i mean go ahead i'll because i'll answer too i mean i do certainly hope like you know i think we should like you we have to look at numbers like i do hope that whoever comes out of this uh primary is able to defeat you know i put it like this four years ago i was up about six points over ron johnson and ended up losing that race by one point uh right now i am the only person on this stage who is ahead of time tiffany according to the most recent marquette poll so that is my caution because i have been through this before and i know how dirty i know how nasty and i know how expensive these things get so do it do i believe all of us can [01:37:47] Speaker 4: yes do i think it'll be easier if i'm the nominee yes and and do i do i think that there are challenges if we spend the fall defending ourselves over comments we have made in the past over defunding the police abolishing the police abolishing the senate if there are things we did in the past that are going to be fodder for them you have seen over the last couple of weeks a drip drip drip of stuff that has come out around most of the candidates on this stage like and and that's why i think that you know i have done something didn't get a hell of a lot of attention but i paid somebody to go out and do all the research they could do on me of all the publicly available stuff good and bad it numbers to a hundred pages and i put put it online on my website so you can go and see everything that's happened to me and and i challenged everybody up here to do the same because you ought to know what you're getting when you go to vote in 13 days you ought to know what the general election campaign is going to look like and if there are skeletons rattling around in everybody's closet you ought to know that because the stakes are too high for us this fall the stakes are too high when it comes to data centers when it comes to health care education housing child care if we don't put out a candidate who can be on the offensive if we're defending our candidate then we can lose then there are challenges to us winning and the stakes are so high that we need to know what we're doing so i will renew my call today for all my friends up here to do what i have done and be transparent be that transparent as a [01:39:11] Speaker 3: candidate be that transparent as a leader this isn't a rebuttal but i'll just say four years ago they spent 50 million dollars to do that for me 50 million dollars so it's a longer document than the hundred pages i have is what you're saying 50 50 million dollars on a screen near you to make me the [01:39:27] Speaker 5: scariest person you could ever imagine i absolutely believe that anybody up here can beat tom tiffany because i'm gonna work my damn hardest to make sure that whoever wins this primary beats tom tiffany in november that means that is the focus right and i know that there's been this has been one of the messiest primaries that we've ever seen you know in my recent lifetime and i truly believe that at the end of the day when it comes to august 12th we all got a job to do right every single person sitting up on this stage ultimate goal is to defeat tom tiffany and so we we got to make sure that we're doing that but i will say some along the lines of joe i want to make sure that we're we're winning and not by the landslide that governor evers won by by even bigger margins right because we are winning between one to two to three percent we need a resounding win because it's not just about winning the governor's office it's about making sure we're sending a message to the state of wisconsin that we'll flip the state senate that we'll flip the state assembly and we'll not just defeat tom tiffany who will defeat trump's legacy because that's what this is ultimately about we cannot allow anyone to pick up the mantle and allow a mega extremist to occupy this governor's office [01:40:49] Speaker 6: yes i believe everyone on this stage can defeat tom tiffany jesse i think you could even beat tom tiffany i'm not gonna try he is truly one of the weakest candidates that the republicans could put forth he is a pedophile protector he is a traitor who will not say who won the 2020 election that is an immediate disqualifier to be an election denier he has voted to rip food away from our kids and he has also voted to make sure that millions of americans are going to lose their health care this is someone who will rubber stamp trump and will always put trump first and it is why our campaign has continued to actually show folks across wisconsin who he is he is not some oh i like old fashions regular guy he's mr mining he's someone who is going to consistently put wisconsinites last we have put out our attack odds on tiffany because we need to be ready to make sure the people across wisconsin know exactly who he is and whoever wins this we will ensure that we are bringing our organizing infrastructure of over 7 000 people who have signed up to volunteer for this campaign people who have not been in voting voting in primaries before a multi-generational coalition folks we need to keep and stay engaged not just in august not just in november but to help us bring actual durable democratic power so that we're not fighting for our lives every single election but that we ensure that in every single election we are actually building stronger bigger winning by bigger margins in every single election and i truly believe that i challenge david i think there's not going to be anyone who will out hustle me and making sure that we win a majority and that we have a democrat in the governor's office don't challenge me now oh we're going [01:42:43] Speaker 7: well that was a a pretty good litany of the reasons not to vote for tom tiffany i'll also just add one tiny thing this man voted for a national abortion ban so under no circumstances can we allow him to be the governor but let's be honest about the state that wisconsin is we are a swing state and we have lost horribly winnable elections and you know it's a gut punch every time to think about some of the political leaders that we have had in this state so we can't take a single vote for granted now i'm worried about the governor's race but i am also very very worried about uh the legislature republicans didn't just drop three and a half million dollars to try to influence this primary and buy the candidate that they feel most confident that they can be they also are spending 16 million dollars to try to get a republican trifecta because they apparently think that's on the table if they get their choice candidate i am the candidate in this race with no baggage in fact i can't even get you know my policy plans covered because i just don't have enough uh any baggage or scandals uh to sort of get people's attention in to get the clicks but the truth of the matter is we need to do everything in our power to unite on august 12th to make sure we are protecting the governorship flipping the state senate and doing our best to uh get as many seats in these assemblies as we can because the republicans are going [01:44:02] Speaker 8: for it all okay very quickly i have one specific question directed at each of you um and then we're gonna go into our final statements um i'll just start with you kelda since you're on the end and just spoke you said earlier in this debate that facts don't matter do you believe that that has become true in this democratic primary race [01:44:24] Speaker 7: i think all of us have spent a year traveling around the state talking to rooms like this well the vast majority of people in the state were not paying attention because life is busy and it feels like homework when there's seven people on stage and you feel like you have to research i think that there has been not enough coverage of some of the areas where there are really meaningful policy differences like healthcare i'm a healthcare maverick in this race my plan to open up the state health insurance system uh you know my plan to bring the voucher scheme to a responsible end and fully invested public schools and then i think there has been a lot of undue uh or disinformation being spread you know we just talked about data centers not a single candidate up here supports a full ban on data centers not one and all of us are find what's happening right now unacceptable and want to have strong regulations in place and yet this primary has really been dominated by benign neglect and um you know and money and i just think we deserve a better democracy than the best democracy money can buy and that's why the great thing is that voters get to actually decide not not anybody else the voters who show up on august 11th get to decide who is the candidate best positioned to beat tom tiffany flip the legislature and actually deliver the progressive change that [01:45:46] Speaker 8: all of us deserve fran what do you say to people who after watching your debate performance are saying that you appear to be moderating on any of your stances particularly the defund police question [01:45:59] Speaker 6: i'm not here to govern by slogan and i think that we have to have serious conversations in making sure that we have a governor that is serious about public safety the systems that we are working under right now are not the ones that are helping to make our communities safer in fact they've only added to the number of incarcerated folks we have people who are working in our prisons under unsafe conditions including nurses and social workers who we need to make sure are actually there to be protected but this is the reason i've taken this firm stance on the moratorium the reason i've called for ending the voucher schemes the reason that we continue to make sure that we're the ones actually calling for fixing a rigged economy by the universal policies that we know will not bring us back here when we have free child care when we make sure that there's paid leave for all that there is affordable housing that we are making government not just more efficient but actually put working class people first my commitment to public safety is unwavering and i will continue to make sure that even if a decision is politically inconvenient or uncomfortable that we're making the politically correct one that the people are demanding and the people are demanding a bold progressive candidate who has campaigned and continues to win in the numbers including making sure that we have more individual donations than tom tiffany we have more individual donors than tom tiffany it is going to be an election where i hope we can all come together and unite in making sure that everyone who deserves a wisconsin that is working for them is what they get and i am committed to delivering that [01:47:32] Speaker 8: david you entered the race with the governor's endorsement um we've heard your answer you you are not the establishment and and we under we know your bio um what i want to know is you you got back into the race as as there seems to be an effort by some democrats to coal ass around an alternative candidate to the front runner what do you say to people who just don't like the taste of the governor getting involved [01:47:56] Speaker 5: you coming back in late in the game well i want to be very clear it wasn't the governor who influenced me to get back into this game you know um when we when i when i made the decision to get out of this race it was a very difficult decision and it was just as difficult of a decision to get back into this race and i remember talking to the lieutenant governor that sunday before a press conference and i told her i would continue to back her and matter of fact i talked to her that thursday night before she dropped out and i told her i will continue to back her but i said i make decisions based off of facts and when i when i suspended my campaign we learned that the facts that we received were false and so for me it was about honoring my commitment to this community it's the same community that saved my life served in the state legislature grew up poor went to marquee public schools i believe in the state of wisconsin and so i got back into this race because i truly believe that we need someone not just with the executive experience but with the legislative experience someone who has built coalitions all across the state of wisconsin between democrats republicans and independents and those who don't give a dang about politics i think right now folks are looking for someone who's going to be there with them walk alongside them as we continue to improve the rest of our state that's why i got [01:49:15] Speaker 8: back in this race jilly you've said your biggest challenge is that people just don't know who you are would you have done anything differently in running your campaign to get yourself out there [01:49:26] Speaker 4: sooner or further you know if i could have made 10 million dollars more early in my career and spent that this spring that's one thing i would have done but but it tells you like gmc and no i haven't had jobs that allow me to do that i would have i like um here is something that i think is a challenge for all of us the death of local journalism i'm not talking about in milwaukee i'm talking about in small towns around we have all spent our time going around the state and it is to go to those places and to meet with people and not show up in the local press it's like you weren't there and and that is one of the challenges and i mentioned i'm the the son my parents were both journalists and we live in different times and some of this is market forces but we are not well served as society when we are not as well informed as we should be and and i so is there a regret that i have the regret is that that infrastructure doesn't exist anymore that it is you know something that we traditionally had and it was something where we would have to sit down and and be asked tough questions by a grizzled local journalist we get that now here in some of the big cities but you don't have that in other places and i think wisconsin is not as well off as it should be i think we should find ways to do that because going back to the question about facts like journalism and you know journalists used to be and the good ones still are the ones who are the purveyor in facts now you know every journalist there in some places on the you know different ideological spheres you have journalists who bring their own set of facts and that is not the kind of journalism i think that we need you don't get brownie points for that kissing up i'm kissing up it's worth a try is the journal doing an endorsement in this race my parents were journalists school teacher uaw here it comes we know each other we've got to know each other mandela you said last night that the establishment is [01:51:24] Speaker 8: trying to rig this election um rhetoric about rigging elections obviously has been prevalent in races the last you know i don't know four or five six uh do you worry that that's going to turn off voters when you you say things like that and also it seems that that's specifically directly at one of your opponents [01:51:42] Speaker 3: do you want to elaborate on that element of it oh i stand by the statement that the establishment is inserting itself in this race putting a thumb on the scale and it's pretty evident that people are turned off by those kind of politics like that's the case all across the country there's a very anti-establishment sentiment going on right now because people have been failed by both parties like it is very real marquette poll today showed how many people just didn't care that the governor made an endorsement it hardly moved the needle which shows you the impact there and i got a lot of deep respect for the governor we took out scott walker eight years ago just to put a little nostalgia into the conversation but the time for real bold change is now that's what people are looking for that's what people that's not just what people are looking for that's what we need like this affordability crisis that so many folks are experiencing now it's not new to most communities uh it's finally getting some attention because that pain has been spread out and felt in more places than it ever was before uh the fact that you know it's been 15 years since we had a chance to expand badger care in this state has not happened yet the fact that we still have a minimum wage of seven dollars and 25 cents the fact that we see wealth continue to be concentrated into the hands of just a few people while everybody else has fallen behind on every single bill that they have i used to say the whole system is broken but more effectively nothing works and that's why i do think that there is a harmful element a harmful component to establishment politics trying to rule trying to rule the day when these decisions are made not just in a dark room but in a closet of that dark room the only people who win are special interests [01:53:24] Speaker 8: and corporations thank you everyone it is time for closing statements i think we'll start at the end here with kelda and come back to mandela i think a minute seems good well i just want to thank all [01:53:39] Speaker 7: of you for coming tonight and for the to the journal sentinel for putting this on i'm state senator kelda roys and i am running for governor to raise wages to lower costs especially on the big ticket items like housing health care child care and utilities to have the best public schools in the nation once again and to protect our rights and freedoms from this dangerous authoritarian regime you know we didn't talk a lot about how we can actually regulate what's going on in these data centers but protecting our democracy by necessity requires regulating big tech now i'm running for governor because i have spent my adult life i've spent 25 years working to turn the progressive ideas that we've had into law in the toughest of political environments i have built the broadest coalition of support in this race i have by far the most endorsements overall including the endorsement of we act our state's biggest union which represents teachers and i also have the most endorsements in milwaukee county including that of the shepherd express which i share with david crowley we have a once in a generation opportunity and we need our strongest most effective progressive fighter to help deliver the wisconsin that all of us deserve and i ask for your vote august 11th [01:54:51] Speaker 6: thank you it's been an absolute honor of my lifetime to be campaigning in my home state for the highest office this is something as a daughter of immigrants a single mom now proud public proud product of public schools but most importantly a service industry worker um i'm proud to be the only wage worker right now i will say that this campaign has held over 300 events across the state we have effectively been communicating yes in digital spaces because that's another way to reach communities where they are i think this way of actually traditionally campaigning and continuing to listen to voters is how we've come up with the platform of making sure that we're fighting for affordable health care for everyone free child care fully funding our public schools making sure that we're actually taxing the rich and deleting corporate welfare these are things that are popular no matter what zip code you're in no matter what race or generation you may be a part of it is so exciting to be a part of a political movement right now where we have folks who are coming together as independents republicans democratic socialists we are able to build the thing that dems always talk about that we are this big tent party this movement is what we will continue to bring to make sure we defeat tom tiffany bringing that organizing infrastructure to make sure that not only do we have the resources on august 12th but that we're going to make sure that this is the type of defeat where we're going to continue to talk about how we're going to keep building power because folks want a vision folks want a leader who is actually going to make sure to stand up not only just cooperation but actually stand up for the people of wisconsin i want to thank the [01:56:35] Speaker 5: journal sentinel for for hosting us all today and all of you for joining us you know this has been incredible opportunity to run for governor you know i've been serving in milwaukee county for the past six years and i've been able to do what some would call the impossible and the reason why i'm running for governor is because i want to deliver the same level of passion the same level of commitment and the same level enthusiasm right here across the entire state of wisconsin because we all deserve it we deserve access to clean air clean water we deserve to be able to keep money in our pockets we deserve to have access to health care education system and a roof over our head this is about making wisconsin the best place to live the best place to raise a child and the best place to move into but the only way that we can do that is making sure that we have a good governor a governor that's going to usher in a new opportunities that can work across the aisle to make sure that it's not just about democrats and republicans but it's about us as wisconsinites we can't continue to fall into the trap of division or distraction right now there's too much at stake for any of us to be sitting on the sideline and also i am asking you all for your votes on august 11th because just because you're not in the game doesn't mean you're going to get hit on the sideline we need everybody involved and so no matter what happens on august 12th make sure you wrangle up your friends make sure you knock on some doors you make some phone calls because we got a race to win [01:58:00] Speaker 4: in november you know 13 days ago this race looked very different this is the people standing up sitting up here would have been different 13 days from today you decide and you pass judgment about who is going to be the best candidate to take on donald trump and tom tiffany this fall but for 25 years i've been somebody who has solved problems in this community in the state of wisconsin for the longest the longest stint my career was at discovery world uh at the state's largest science museum in 2018 governor ebers asked me to come help fix some of those problems that scott walker had created and a good portion of the time that i was in that job was during covet when if we didn't make government work for farmers for small businesses for renters and homeowners for local units of government people were going to be harmed and people were going to die and we needed to make government work and i can tell you in the chaos and the dysfunctional world that we live in right now we need government to work we need to demonstrate that it can work for ai for data centers for health care for child care for housing in wisconsin i've demonstrated that that's who i have been throughout my career i'm much more interested in results than in rhetoric much more interested in getting ahead than getting even and i hope that i've demonstrated through the course of tonight through the course of my campaign that i'm somebody who is absolutely committed to making sure wisconsin can be the best that it can be i'd be honored to walk alongside you and have your support on august 11th and november 3rd and i appreciate all that you do to be engaged citizens in our community all right so uh what a very wild and [01:59:36] Speaker 3: at most times absurd cycle this has been uh but having a chance to get to travel all across wisconsin once more to connect with people all across the state on the interests that we all share that's just improving quality of life uh being born and raised here in the city of milwaukee not too far from here born on 26th and locust the challenges uh the issues that come up in this campaign aren't campaign issues they are life issues the things i have either experienced on a deeply personal level or on an interpersonal level with people who were very near and dear to me but so many of our stories are the same there was a time when there was so much more opportunity in this community and so much more opportunity all across the entire state the goal is to not just bring back that opportunity it's about ushering in a new era of opportunity a new chance for people to get ahead where people can chase their dreams where people can afford health care can afford to put food on the table but that's the bare minimum wisconsin should be a place where you can actually and actively chase your dreams and that's the wisconsin that we should all be fighting for together that's the wisconsin i'm committed to and as i said before our message is resonating with folks in every single corner of wisconsin every single community and it is the reason why i am the candidate who is ahead of tom tiffany right now and that matters because it's not a partisan message it's not left or right red or blue this is about the top and bottom politics that have left people with next to nothing while the wealthy continue to get wealthier but that's not the way we do things we have to reject the washington way and get things done the wisconsin way and that's why i'm running for government i want to thank all of [02:01:13] Speaker 8: you and all of you for your time tonight uh kristen's going to come up and tell you all about how you can talk to the candidates after the event all right we're still here thank you for saying thank you to [02:01:27] Kristen Brey: all the candidates thank you to jesse um all right so like we said you still have time to talk to all the candidates you can see in alphabetical order by last name mandela barnes joel brennan david crowley francesca hong and kelder royce and so i will ask all of you to go find your table um i just once again want to thank turner hall ballroom and paps theater group for hosting us tonight the bar is still open um and thank you for coming and don't forget to vote on august 11th and november 3rd