Verdict Reached After Samuel Bateman's UNHINGED Testimony — Days 2 & 3 Full Recap

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: hello hidden gems how are you i am late again i want to um ask for patience tonight because i'm very excited to be here but i'm not feeling very well which is why i was a little bit late so and and forgive me if i need to just um turn off the camera for a little bit or whatever but i i do just really want to hang out with you guys tonight so um i will not let this deter my plans because we have a we have a lot to talk about so it's so good to see so many of you in in chat and i also you know there is some uh wildfires nearby flagstaff that i think isn't that's not helping me feel great a lot of smoke is in the air i hear that there is a severe kind of scary storm in boise i hope those that are in idaho are are okay anyway we have the last two days of the sam bateman trial to uh it's given us a lot to unpack to say the least so like i said get cozy for a good show grab a drink subscribe so you can join the chat we usually do subscriber only in the chat to keep it a little bit more friendly and if you are watching live tell your friends to come join put on your pink too because we have learned through this trial that convicted cult leader and child abuser sam bateman hates the color pink so thank you flagstaff target for my new t-shirt and sweatshirt thanks to grayson he hates pink and something else by the way that i have learned that i have learned about the fake fundy prophet yeah i have also learned that sam sam bateman prefers to be called samuel not sam so sam it is yeah no listen to this actually he gives all his child brides nicknames even on the stand he was giving them nicknames the ones who had to be witnesses in this trial and face their abuser the ones that he left locked in a hot trailer while traveling hours on the arizona freeway he would not call them their proper first full names even in court he would only call them by pet names yet i've learned he wants us to refer to him as samuel not sam yeah sammy sam sam sam sammy sandwich not gonna happen so we're gonna we're gonna talk about sammy today sam sam the past two days has given us a verdict in the sammy bateman trial sam sam bateman trial and we have sam bateman sammy boy taking the stand and testifying and we have little sammy bateman giving his own closing statements yeah uh his last and final point by the way i'm not going to bury the lead so this is that he wanted in his closing statements not just his closing statements but the final thoughts in his closing statements he wanted to make sure before the jury deliberated like i you're gonna you're gonna die when you hear this what he thought his grand finale moment should be today he decided to land on the idea that he just simply did not poop in the makeshift toilet that was inside the trailer yeah he did not poop during the trip in the trailer he just would never do that he would never poop going to the restroom is not in his nature he told the jury he needed the court to know this it was very important to him and the jury he stated it with significance and then right after stating the moment he said this by the way was right so it was right after he stated and i'm going to quote that he would rather die than harm anyone yeah you can't make this up he then told the jury you must know i don't use the restroom he said if he did so it would fumigate the trailer and it would just be disgusting he does not do this and it was sort of like his mic drop moment before the jury started deliberating like that was going to be the thing that changed their mind because you know i'm sure that whether or not he was abusing these girls had to do with that he said this and then he he so he he kind of really makes this known i would never do that it would fumigate the the trailer it's disgusting it's not in my nature to use the restroom and then he's like anyway you know again i would never harm anyone i'd rather die and then he was like and thank you mic drop yeah so yeah a few other things so that i don't bury the lead the verdict was guilty i won't make you wait i think that most of you could assume that because it was the fastest jury in america 25 minutes of deliberating and we all speculated it would be fast a lot of you know that follow hidden to crime that i'm one thing i'm not good at is predicting how long a jury takes to deliberate but i will say i finally got one right i was like this is going to be fast i know it i and we have had the opportunity already to talk to a few of those sam bateman jurors because they came out afterwards and one of them told me that he pretty much uh that sam bateman sammy sam pretty much admitted guilt in his opening statements um also explained that just to put an animal in the trailer and shut the door would be against the law and abusive let alone three young girls and then taking them on the freeway like just he said the moment he just shuts the door on the trailer and latches it is is abuse you know that that's all he needed to know really after the guilty verdict came down i did watch sam so i kind of like stuck around to sort of see how sam sammy boy took in the verdict so after the jury was excused and the jury walked out and court concluded sam remained seated and like i said i just kind of like lingered for a little bit and he he remained seated i guess i kind of also wanted to know if someone was going to take him away in in handcuffs or something because that sometimes happens after a guilty verdict so i think that was another reason i was kind of like lingering and that never happened i think they were essentially waiting for everyone to leave the courtroom before they escorted him out of the the courtroom but he so he remained seated and then he sort of he shook his head he bent his head down and shook his head like this and and then as everyone sort of shuffled out of the courtroom i still stuck around i stuck around as long as long as i could and i saw him do this and it was it sort of tightly shut and squint his eyes like this it wasn't a blink because it was like he was blinking a lot during the guilty verdict but um just tightly shutting his eyes and squeezing them tight tight and then opening them and squeezing them again and opening them um whatever that means probably i think anger i mean i don't know or maybe he was realizing that ending on the idea that he didn't use the restroom um maybe wasn't the best idea maybe he realized as one of his survivors pointed out that technically it means he's um you know this is these are this is the survivors quote one of his victims you know it technically meant he was full of shit if he's not using the restroom anyway clearly there's no love lost for me if if this trial did anything for me um it's made him all the more just sort of despicable um i feel really bad for those girls and women and others who have been harmed by him because when you spend the last three days um watching somebody profess that they would never harm anyone while brutally harming multiple children for years and show no remorse um even deny it all in his in his opening statements claiming never harm anyone his closing statements actually say he would rather die than harm anyone i'm struggling you know it was a rough three days in court watching him and then watching his victims have to testify and and then tell me personally in in private conversations how hard it was and knowing the beautiful strong survivors that so many of these girls are you know hard three days i hope i wish them well you know i hope i hope they continue in their healing journey so with that um out of the way let's jump in to the beginning of day to in court so that would be thursday yesterday it's been a blur uh starting right on time at 9 a.m thursday morning the judge started with a quick housekeeping thing so the state had filed a pleading about sam's character witnesses they were pretty vague when talking about it but essentially they were saying that while sam filed a witness list he did not give notice about specifics on character that that the character witnesses would testify for so in other words the prosecution has to be notified what character traits your character witnesses are going to be testifying about so the judge clarified that to sam and sam said that the two people he planned to call were directly involved in the incident and he could ask them questions about the incident and if it led into his character he said quote really can't stop that yeah so they expanded a bit and what his witnesses were filed as brenda barlow was a witness of his and brenda barlow was listed as an eyewitness and character witness pamela was a character witness only and then galilee like the sea of galilee galilee was listed as a material and character witness and so for a quick background on samuel's witnesses because i think this is important who does who does sam i just called him samuel didn't i who does sammy boy have to uh testify for him right for for his defense so let's do some quick background on sammy's witnesses brenda barlow is one of sam's wives actually she testified today but we'll get to that she was arrested and she spent time in prison got out and what did she do after she got out she returned to sam's cult which is essentially frustrating because she was actually given a hell of a deal she was initially charged with 11 counts including transporting a minor for sexual activity and transferring obscene materials to minors however she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit tampering with an official proceeding in exchange for the rest of her charges being dropped it was a great deal according to the website courthouse news during brenda's sentencing the judge in her case actually stated that she quote regularly watched and often engaged with sam bateman as he had sex with his underage wives or forced them to watch him have sex with his adult wives one girl was as young i mean i hate to even say this but one girl was as young as nine when she was taken as a wife and was according to the court documents um forced to strip and forced to watch sam bateman do things with with barlow with with uh brenda barlow so yeah and she she returned um she also um children were were forced to watch sam and brenda and others over video chat um one girl was only 10 so that's according to courthouse courthouse news so there you go heartbreaking so essentially brenda narrowly evades being a child predator on paper for the rest of her life because of a plea deal spent some time in a prison in west virginia and then ends up back in colorado city living with the other sam followers yeah yeah so pamela pamela is brenda's mother and she is also a sam follower and finally galilee biceline is a cm follower galilee is married to liddell johnson so remember liddell johnson liddell johnson um she has actually two children with liddell johnson liddell gave up his young girls his daughters to be under sam's control and to marry sam and liddell is also currently serving a life sentence life sentence yeah after being convicted of receipt of c sam one count of transfer of obscene material to a minor two counts of persuading or coercing travel to engage in sexual activity two counts of using a means of interstate commerce to persuade or coercing minor to engage in sexual activity and two counts of transportation of a minor for criminal sexual activity yeah so before opening statements sam asked to remove galilee from the witness list based on her request so that she could sit in the trial long story short the judge said that there could not be character witness testimony of any kind because the disclosures of characteristic traits for testimony had not been disclosed and and as you remember lori valo uh the moment lori valo same state arizona right different county same state the moment that lori valo stood up in her opening statements and talked about what a wonderful person she was the prosecution was quick to say look you're you're skating on thin ice if you go there if you you know then we get to argue whether or not you really are a good person by bringing up you know your past murder convictions um you know if he starts so it makes sense if if sam bateman wants to rest his entire argument on what a wonderful person he is you know it doesn't really work uh because then i you know it seems like his conviction should be able to come in at that moment but with that after explaining that the jury was brought in yesterday thursday morning and the first witness on the stand was virginia by sign so now we're back to still the prosecution so that was that was thursday morning that was sort of a discussion to prep for the defense sam's defense but we're still the state still has not rested yesterday morning they're still bringing in witnesses for the prosecution the state's case and and it was a good day thursday yesterday for the state i'll say that the witnesses did a tremendous job the prosecutor did a tremendous job and the first witness on the stand was virginia viceline and while not disclosed to the jury virginia is a former wife of sam bateman she is currently 19 years old back in august of 2022 she was 15 years old she identified sam for the record and then the testimony was underway so she testified that in those days sam was in charge and he did what he told her to do when they traveled he was in charge had the decision making power had the travel agenda it was sam who knew who was traveling when and made decisions on who would sit where so then moving into the august 14th event which to clarify august 14th is when the three same girls were sitting on the atv and sam was pulled over and given a warning it was two weeks before the august 28th event which got him arrested so the august 14th event virginia remembered being in the white yukon that was carrying the trailer with the atv but that the girls were sitting on she said that was something that they would do regularly on that day she said they loaded up in the greenhouse the greenhouse so there's a little bit of inside baseball going here too that i think the witnesses were picky or the the jury was picking up on you know the greenhouse right um we know what the greenhouse is we've if we've seen the netflix documentary trust me uh false prophet but but the jury does it and so when you're saying you know yeah we were all loaded up in the greenhouse it does certainly sound like sort of a compound the way i see it which was great it was great that the prosecution was sort of getting all of this information from virginia and that she was relaying this so they loaded up in the greenhouse in colorado city she testified that g d and s those were the first witnesses the three that were inside the trailer g d and s got on the atv on the back of the trailer she says she thought the atv was strapped down she testified there were seat belts on the atv and they were headed to the sand dunes virginia said they went to the sand dunes a lot for camping and driving the atvs around she remembered the traffic stop happening she could not remember the specific events that much but she thought that she remembered people getting off of the atv next the prosecution moved into the august 28th event she said they loaded up in the greenhouse and in the truck was was her virginia moretta gnomes and rachel and then d s and g got in the trailer she thought moretta was around 18 at the time gnomes was over 18 she was 15 again virginia rachel was 13 and she thought the s was 11 g was around the same age and d was maybe 14. so virginia thought they were headed to tucson and she said they stopped at some gas stations a few times on the way she said that at one stop someone went and got something out of the trailer and then forgot to latch it all the way and then what happened they got pulled over so the prosecution backed up a bit more to get more of an idea of the trip virginia said she thought they were going to a grant cardone mentor meaning meeting which i thought was just fascinating they're going to a mentor meeting meeting and she said the first stop she remembered was when they stopped and some people went in to go to the bathroom and get snacks it was a gas station near flagstaff that was small the prosecution asked her if she remembered a ruth johnson virginia said yes she did and that during a stop ruth went back to the trailer to get some snacks and forgot to latch the trailer properly virginia could not remember what happened to ruth after that if she got in the trailer or or the other car virginia then testified that after that d called sam from the trailer from inside the trailer to say that the trailer was not shut properly and sam said that he would find a spot to stop and fix it she said that before sam was able to find a place he was actually stopped but the prosecution honed in on the fact that he could have stopped along the way at other parts and virginia agreed that yes he could have stopped at other places and other parts next virginia was asked about the actual stop the august 28th stop she said she didn't remember lights in the beginning but once the officers noticed the group was trying to get away from them that was an interesting moment too the group was trying to get away from the police they then turned on the lights and virginia testified that yes d was holding the door of the trailer virginia testified that usually on travel days there were phone calls happening and they would all merge the calls together and be on the phone throughout which i also think is fascinating does anybody else remember moroni johnson in the documentary and he was always wearing a bluetooth the whole time like he just never took it off and that so many people have mentioned that i'm like starting to understand why when they're saying that essentially everybody would merge the calls together on their phones then they would be on mute and just all be on the phone throughout so it makes sense now right like everybody's just kind of on their bluetooth all the time it's like roger you know it's just like they're all keeping track so although virginia did not remember being in contact with the girls in the trailer that day via phone until the door was left open the prosecution asked if sam gave any instruction she said when the cops were surrounding them he said that they didn't have to say anything and shouldn't and that they didn't have to give their names either she testified that he was paranoid about the police sam was paranoid about the police and he was paranoid that day that was another great moment of virginia's testimony when asked about what was in the trailer she said some camping things a stroller a curtain and a makeshift toilet the infamous makeshift toilet she thought that maybe some food was also there but was unsure the prosecution honed in on the toilet virginia said the toilet was mostly used during camping trips and she thought that was the first time it had been used on the road and maybe another girl r had also possibly used it and after that the prosecution showed virginia a series of photos and these photos included a photo of virginia in a purple prairie dress standing in front of the trailer and to paint the picture it was almost like a full body mug shot all of these witnesses on the stand these photos that were taken outside of the trailer it's yeah they're like full body mug shots individual photos of them in front of the trailer you could see the trauma on her face in that photo and most of their faces it's really sad next you know because a lot of the body cam as you recall it's blurred right it's been really kind of uh hard and difficult and eye-opening to see their faces finally and yes trauma is painted on their faces also just sort of distance distant stairs anyway next um they showed her a photo of the seven girls including her they were all together so it was it was her it was maretta rachel gnomes gd and s so maretta and gnomes were both holding phones in that picture and at that time she thought they were videoing because sam had instructed them to film whenever there was police around and so all of their phones are up recording police and then the next two photos were of the inside back of the truck and the truck was where virginia had been sitting she said that her and rachel and gnomes were in the back and maretta was up front next to sam and when asked to describe what was in the car the cab of the truck she pointed out some bags in the car and then there a sermon book on the seat of course there's a sermon book one bag was sam's backpack where he kept his tablet and other items she testified that there would not be room for the three girls uh in the truck the three girls that were in the trailer there would not be room for them in the truck clearly we we see it ourselves in these photos then they showed photo they showed her a photo of the driver's seat of the truck she confirmed that sam was in that seat that he was in charge she emphasized and what he said went it was such a good moment when this came out in testimony he was in charge and what he said went on the seat was a pillow that she said sam would drive with because of his back hurting and that in the cup holder was an energy drink and binoculars yeah binoculars because you know he liked this is quotes there were binoculars because quote he liked to spy on people with them and quote oh sammy sam sam she then said the girls live with sam sam i am which was the first time the jury had heard that thus far it was really interesting so yeah see everything coming out finally on thursday yes the girls lived with sam boom probably in the greenhouse right this was the first time the jury heard this they then showed a few more photos of the truck and then asked more about the trip she said that gs and d had asked him in colorado city if they could ride back there and he gave them permission they asked her if she ever thought about the safety of this but she said no not really i mean i don't think that these girls were worried about a trailer with everything they were going through right around their town also though uh she explained it was somewhat normal to ride in the back of a truck but this was the first time anyone had been in a trailer for a long trip upon reflection now she said it seems very unsafe very dangerous to put girls back there with no seats or restraints sam decided not to cross-examine this witness thank goodness he did not cross-examine his victims and the jurors had no questions which was also interesting because um the first day they had so many questions the second day not so many and well later in the day they did let's keep going the next witness was r viceline she is currently 17 years old and just by the softness of her voice you could tell that she is clearly traumatized from her time in sam's group this is really sad on august 28 2022 r said that she was riding in the truck with moretta virginia gnomes and sam she confirmed that sam was in charge of the trip and everyone on it she remembered the girls being in the trailer she said that there were no seat belts and a bunch of stuff packed inside at this point the prosecution said they were going to show her some photos but the prosecutor stopped to talk to each other for a couple of minutes and i could tell it seemed like they were making decisions on how long they wanted to keep questioning our in my opinion this is just my personal opinion i think that this was likely based on simply how traumatized she truly seemed to be and how she was coming across um yeah so i believe they realized that and they they wanted to probably get her off the stand sooner than later for her sake next a photo of r in a long blue prairie dress standing in front of the trailer was shown to the jury and after that the prosecution had no further questions sam said he was not going to cross-examine and the prosecution said she was not subject to recall meaning she was completely done the third witness on the stand was moretta johnson moretta was born in 2003 and is currently 23 years old in august of 2022 she was 19 years old she identified sam for the record and then the questioning began moretta confirmed that sam was the leader of her in 2022 leader in quotes so we're going from sam's in charge what sam says goes to now confirming that he's a leader that was also another great moment from from thursday he is a leader i mean there's one thing to be in charge right a mom can be in charge a teacher can be in charge when you've got a man over like a lot of girls and he's a leader now we're talking cult right so he was a leader of of her and moretta confirmed that sam was a leader of her in 2022 not like a leader of like you know teaching her things just of her of herself of who she is of of everything right a leader of her in 2022 he was always in charge including when they traveled she said that she would do what he told her in those days and the prosecutor began asking her about the first traffic stop on august 14th 2022 moretta discussed getting ready at what they referred to as the greenhouse the greenhouse keeps coming up and they all loaded up to go to the coral pink sand dunes she said on that trip quite a few people were in the vehicle she could not recall everyone but she does remember that three girls in the seats of the atv and she remembered that they asked if they could ride in there and sam told them they could and as they were leaving colorado city an officer saw the girls in the atv and pulled them over she said that sam talked to the police during the stop and that the officer very clearly stated it was a criminal investigation he ultimately told the girls to get out of the atv while the other girls stayed in the vehicle and back then she testified that she didn't understand that it was an unsafe situation to have girls on an atv while driving makes sense she's a child the prosecution then moved on to the august 28th incident the main incident where the charges stem from in this trial so uh the trailer incident august 28th incident she said in fact and gray if you want to like kind of throw some of the body can be roll up again i don't know um just to remind people what this incident is as we talk about august 28th might be more interesting than my face we can watch this for visuals so the prosecution then moved on to the august 28th incident she said they loaded up at the the greenhouse in colorado city and she thought they were going again to this seminar in the the phoenix area and she said that sam had someone get an airbnb so they were headed down there to tucson and there was an airbnb and i just want to point out this too sammy sam sam sam i am with a trailer and truck and vehicles full of underage girls driving hours and getting an airbnb in the tucson area essentially to me means these girls are right being trafficked right um what's going to happen in that airbnb so i just want to point that out that the juries never explained this but we know um from sam's prior conviction and other others convictions including liddell's and and moroni's um what happened oftentimes on these trips and in an airbnb so i just want to point that out so they had an airbnb set and the girls didn't really not all of them understood why they were even going down there she explained that sam's truck was hauling the white cargo trailer they often use the trailer for camping supplies and that day there were camping supplies along with g s and d loaded up in the trailer she could not remember their exact ages at the time but said that they were between 10 and 14 years old moretta said that sam had assigned her to ride in the passenger seat this was a great moment as more maretta explained her seating assignment so moretta said sam assigned her that was the word she used to ride in the passenger seat essentially next to him and she knew that she had to be exactly where she was supposed to be or else she would be in trouble that was such a good moment for the prosecution and and well done moretta explaining this moretta said that she gathered up everything as quickly as possible and wasn't there for an exact conversation about the girls getting into the trailer she just knew that she had been assigned passenger seat and she better be there and and be there on time and in the truck cab with morata was gnomes virginia and rachel she said the trailer did not have seat belts and was not designed to carry people and in the trailer she described the bucket with a toilet seat lid that they had used for camping and most everyone explained it as a bucket with a toilet seat lid and there were also two recliner seats in the trailer moretta thought that was why the girls wanted to be back there because they could lounge while riding she said the trip went as expected and they made a bathroom stop in flagstaff she got out to go back to the trailer where there were snacks moretta said she was going to get some snacks but she could feel that there was tension after a few minutes so she ran back up to the front the doors were still open when she left she said that since another girl had been standing there she thought that she was going to close the trailer she explained that when she got back in the truck sam was pretty upset about people seeing the girls back there so moretta said that before leaving the stop are got out of the trailer and went to another vehicle in the caravan so after they began traveling again there was a group signal call going on yeah group signal call nothing to see here d who was in the trailer was on the call telling sam that the doors weren't shut and they they did not feel safe sam told her to hold them shut and he would find somewhere to put to pull off but then after that he's like okay hold the door shut i'm gonna find a place to pull off girls and then what did he do after that after that he got on the freeway and began going 70 to 80 miles per hour moretta said he was very much so paranoid about law enforcement that day he had pulled off the highway because there was a vehicle with lights on it behind them sam and this is a quote sam didn't like the spirit that man had which is why he wanted to pull off moretta said that the driver had an evil spirit and he wanted to get him off of his tail uh moretta said that that's what sam thought that the driver had an evil spirit and he wanted to to get him off of his tail so when asked about the trailer moretta said that it did not have ventilation it did not have air conditioning nor did it have windows at that time she didn't know about safety but now she knows it is very unsafe to carry children in a trailer with no seat belts she said that a lot of the roads on their route were very bumpy uneven and the passing zones were very tight the prosecution then showed moretta one photo which was a photo of her in front of the trailer in a blue traditional flds dress and after that the state had no further questions sam decided not to cross-examine and the jurors had no further questions she was excused subject to recall and i also want to point out too that both of these women came in also in clothes that were not their traditional flds dress again showing that a lot had changed for these young girls um it was a stark difference in comparison i'm sure for the jury to see uh moretta was actually wearing brown slacks in a cream silk blouse looking very put together with long blonde hair um that was straight and down and then the next witness is uh we came to was gnomes uh many know naomi or gnomes from trust me a false prophet um before we get there let's take though a super quick break to hear from one of our incredible trial sponsors again we are always so grateful for our trial sponsors who make us uh who allow us to be able to travel to these trials and to give you all the play-by-play and they are partners that we love and support while they support us um so take a listen i've always loved sunglasses and actually i can't live without them but not only can i not survive without my glasses outside they're also one of those accessories let's be honest that can completely pull an outfit together i wear them on my morning runs at my son's soccer games and even while sitting outside the courthouse going over my notes before lunch live streams my recent go-to are absolutely gooder glasses for every single occasion the thing that i am most obsessed with is that they are super lightweight and they don't slip when i'm running they don't bounce around i love them i will not now go running without them and every pair has polarized lenses with uv 400 protection and then there's the fact that they have so many fun colors and styles like so many get ready to upgrade your eyewear to something functional lightweight fashionable fun and best of all affordable head to gooder.com hidden to claim ten dollars off your first order now that's g-o-o-d-r dot com slash hidden no e there g-o-o-d-r dot com slash hidden i think one of the biggest surprises about starting hidden true crime was realizing that making the content that was only half of the job suddenly you're learning websites merchandise customer emails inventory analytics and wondering how people keep track of it all and that is why i do appreciate what shopify does for business owners whether you are just getting started or you've been in business for years it puts everything in one place you can build your own online store manage inventory create email and social campaigns and even use ai tools to help write product descriptions and improve product photos it really feels like having a business partner that's working behind the scenes so you can spend more time focusing on what you actually love creating it's time to turn those what ifs into with shopify today sign up for your one dollar per month trial today at shopify.com slash hidden true crime go to shopify.com slash hidden true crime that's shopify.com slash hidden true crime all right and actually hold on charlie horse okay i think we're okay i was stretching it earlier during the ads like it's not like feet what do you guys do for feet charlie horses it's like sorry and yes my pajamas match my sweatshirt now you guys know my pajama bottoms okay i think i'm okay let's continue this uh yeah should we yeah share that okay i think i'm feeling better you guys are gonna i think we're good oh it's so fun to see everyone in chat too just to see i'm stretching um my my my little muscle cramp on my foot and i get to see that um i see joe is here and many others oh someone made that um someone made that of sammy sandwich does anybody have any other good nicknames for sam sam um i'd love to hear them by the way in chat if you guys have some better ones um i you know i'm like going back and forth i'm like is it is it is it is it kosher or is everybody is it okay to share that i mean it's funny it makes me giggle i don't know i don't know if it's um pc i think let's see what would esther do let's let's my friend esther i think would appreciate it and she's flds so if esther would appreciate it i say go for it uh somebody just made this of our friend sam manella i didn't make it but it did make me giggle um there you go there you go sad sack sam oh my gosh gosh the pink performative pooping prophet okay star some of these um and and someone is telling me to eat bananas for for my charlie horses we'll do that oh and carol it's so good to see you carol i'm so glad to see you okay well if carol laughed i feel okay okay all right new jumpsuit put that back up if carol's laughing it makes me like more yeah there you go there's there's um sam manila oh pickle juice okay good to know good to know i've been getting a lot of them oh and there's esther esther loves it all right we've got we've got um okay there you go anyway sam we're gonna we're gonna keep talking about you okay you doing okay the pink did you see what carol said i won't say that that was that was funny all right okay okay thanks everyone okay so we'll pin some of these and we'll come back we'll have some fun at the end with some more nicknames you guys are hilarious let's keep going we've got a lot to cover the next witness again is naomi viceline who goes by the nickname gnomes and she was again another one of sam bateman's former wives so right away gnomes described sam as the leader of the group according to her he was the one making the decisions again letting people know sam sammy boy is in charge he's the one making the decisions he's the leader he decided where they traveled who went on each trip and who rode in which vehicle and generally how everything was organized sounds like he's the one in charge not the three little girls making the decision to go in the back of the trailer so gnomes described the caravan as i love this well done well played gnomes she described it as his little group or in her words the people who followed him zing the people who followed him i mean tell me you're a cult leader without saying this guy's a cult leader the state first asked gnomes about the incident again that happened on august 14th 2022 two weeks before the trail trailer incident that essentially put sam bateman in handcuffs so starting with the august 14th incident where he just got a warning in colorado city that was the earlier traffic stop involving the side-by-side atv being hauled behind one of the suvs and the prosecutors only touched on it briefly before shifting to the trip that became the focus of this trial so two weeks later the group left colorado city for flagstaff according to gnomes and the entire trip was whose idea sam's idea the plan was to travel to an event featuring a motivational speaker named grant cardone and gnomes explained that the three vehicles traveled together in a caravan with sam driving the lead truck and pulling a white enclosed box trailer behind him gnomes explained that the box trailer was not designed to carry passengers you think yeah exactly but it had been turned into a makeshift storage area with a few modifications inside were two couch style seats a homemade bathroom that consisted of a bucket with a toilet seat attached and various other supplies and furniture none of this was secured there were no seat belts no air conditioning no windows and according to gnomes there really was not any ventilation either gnomes testified that everything inside shifted while the trailer was moving and if you guys are thinking what i'm thinking yeah i'm just picturing that bucket shifting around in the trailer but let's keep going the furniture moved around a lot she said the supplies bounced around and by the way there was a giant metal shovel in there there was gasoline in there it's terrible so the supplies are bands bouncing around the people riding inside bounced around two gnomes explained the prosecution then identified the three girls who were riding in the the trailer that day and that was gs and d all three were miners at the time gnomes explained that for most of the trip they traveled on two-lane highways before eventually reaching the interstate and even though the girls were riding inside the enclosed trailer they stayed in contact with the people in the truck by cell phone yeah the state specifically asked how gnomes knew that sam was aware that the girls were riding back in the trailer because sam wants to tell us he doesn't know gnomes is going to tell us exactly how he knows they were riding back there and her answer was because he was talking to them on the phone yeah he knew they were back there and one of the most important parts of her testimony involved the trailer door she explained that after one of the stops another girl named r had originally been riding in the trailer but she climbed out during the stop to get into another vehicle when everyone got back on the road the trailer door apparently was not latched completely according to gnomes d called sam and told him very clearly yo sam the door is not secured properly and gnomes testified that d was physically holding the door closed from the inside to keep it from flying open while they were driving despite knowing there was a problem gnome said that sam did not immediately stop instead around that same time another vehicle began following them so rather than sam slowing down gnome's testified that sam actually sped up and as they continue driving d told sam that it was becoming harder and harder to hold the trailer door shut gnomes remembered one particularly sharp turn that frightened everyone inside she testified that sam was driving fast enough that the girls in the trailer became scared and so looking back now gnomes told the jury that she realizes just how dangerous that situation really was at the time though she said she had become numb to many things happening within the group and did not fully process how serious it was now she believes that if anything had gone wrong those girls absolutely could have lost their lives and i completely agree picture this too by the way they didn't really get into this but like think of the heat in the trailer we all know about hot cars that kill children the most heartbreaking stories i did were every summer when i had to cover hot car deaths for children and they are in a trailer no ventilation flagstaff's more elevated right it's going to be not so bad they're driving to tucson in august guys anyone that knows tucson and and going through phoenix knows i mean if they did it if they didn't lose their lives falling out of this trailer they could have been just the heat alone anyway gnomes made it clear in her testimony that she believed that the girls could have lost their lives and she also made it clear that their safety was absolutely sam's responsibility gnomes acknowledged that cell phone service was not perfect during the drive and that calls did occasionally drop even so she testified there was no misunderstanding about the trailer door everyone knew what was going on with the trailer door she said the girl successfully told sam that the door wasn't secured and that they were struggling to keep it shut the state then displayed a series of photographs from the investigation and gnomes identified various people various vehicles and items shown in those exhibits and ps i'm going to break for a second and explain to you guys when i asked grayson to maybe show some b-roll of the trailer we are struggling with our wi-fi our wi-fi is fragile right now in our hotel room so we opted not to show the video because we're playing it safe so we have a lot of things we wanted to show and and we're just kind of slowing down so we also had some of these images i don't know if we can show some of these right now we just want to make sure our live stays up so that's what's going on but there are various people vehicles and items shown in those exhibits um if we can't get them up now we'll share them later and when it came time for cross-examination sam declined to ask gnomes any questions at all so again which i was grateful for thank you sammy sam um he did not cross-examine his um victims the jurors also chose not to submit any questions for her so all three of these witnesses the jurors are like we're good no questions to me i was starting to realize they had made up their mind they had questions for everyone the day before yesterday they're like they you know it was like they understood what was going on they're like we're good no questions needed for these three women the next witness was sergeant um jason how do you say his last name is it chaconne chaconne i just don't want to butcher his name yeah i thought i thought that was what it is i just i just second guessed myself um we'll call him sergeant he's with the arizona department of public safety highway patrol he had responded to the scene on august 28 2022 and this sergeant testified that when he arrived he approached the passenger side of sam's truck recorded the license plate information and related to dispatch and then he then made contact with the people inside the truck before eventually helping to open the trailer which we saw a video of so when he opened the trailer doors he initially did not see anyone and we saw this on body camera footage he opens the doors he doesn't see anyone and then he notices a purple curtain and above that curtain he saw fingers reaching up and only after the girls were instructed to come out did he realize that there were three children inside it was actually quite a moment to see three little girls with their hands up in these little conservative dresses walking out and the sergeant described it she kind of as sergeant chaconne described what he saw in the trailer there was a couch um two recliners uh plastic benches or tables generators boxes of supplies and a plastic bucket with a toilet seat attached that was being used as a makeshift bathroom and none of these items were secured everything inside was loose and capable of sliding or shifting while the trailer was moving the sergeant also was wearing body camera during the stop the footage is played for the jury and for those of us in the gallery and it is admitted into evidence um do we have that i think we're gonna wait on that footage um and we're still working this this um pool footage is always a little slow yeah it's hard to get so uh we do we do have uh sound boys full testimony though um i improved the sound and the lighting after we went live yesterday so that is up if you guys want to see that it is much better anyway after the three girls climbed out uh the sergeant wanted to make sure nobody else was still inside because he noticed a baby stroller among the items in the trailer so he tried accessing the trailer to a side door but found it locked and as the jury watched the body camera footage the sergeant emphasized that this was not a trailer designed to transport people obvi clearly you can tell as you look at the footage and the photos it's simply metal and plywood it's a metal and plywood cargo trailer it even says cargo on the front the brand is wells cargo very clever wells cargo it had none of the features someone would expect in a passenger compartment no windows no ventilation no safety restraints no modifications that would make it appropriate for carrying children let alone animals let alone um anything alive during cross-examination sam began by thanking the sergeant for a service this was such he did this every time it was such an eye roll so he gets up to cross-examine and the first thing he does is thank sergeant chacon for his service and telling him that he appreciated what he did as a law enforcement officer this is so it was exhausting to listen and and then sam focus on one detail from the body camera footage he pointed out that the sergeant had opened the trailer door from the outside and that the locking mechanism appeared to be tightly latched and sergeant chacon agreed now two things here a i thought that was interesting too because i was expecting the latch to be loose and it seemed to be tightly latched but then my second thought b was i don't know what's scarier the idea that the door could fling open on the freeway or the fact that these girls are locked inside a black box with gasoline and no way out um and no ventilation you know what's scarier this both the both scenarios are horrifying so but we're gonna argue over which scenario might be more horrifying and and sam really wanted to bring this point to cross-exam that it did look to be tightly latched in sergeant the sergeant agreed sam asked whether it would have been possible for the girls to latch the door from the inside and the sergeant chacon was like nope wouldn't have been able to sam also confirmed that officers had not actually pulled him over with lights and sirens instead by the time that chacon arrived sam's truck was already parked in the parking lot the jurors had one question for sergeant chacon so finally there was a jury question for the sergeant so they asked if the trailer door looked loose how could it also appear to be latched and the sergeant explained that while the locking mechanism itself was engaged tightly the door still wasn't sitting securely in the frame so in other words the latch could be locked while the door itself still had noticeable movement and the door itself could be the problem sam followed up with one question of his own he again asked how the door could be considered insecure if it was latched and the sergeant repeated his explanation just because the lock was engaged didn't mean the trailer door itself is properly secured and then the state's next witness was another sergeant sergeant michael i should have practiced these names before i jumped on negretti i think sounds good sergeant negretti with the arizona department of public safety he is now assigned to the gang task force in flagstaff but back in august 2022 he was working as a highway patrol trooper his regular duties included traffic enforcement commercial vehicle inspections and investigating unsafe loads now negretti testified that around noon on august 28 the dispatch issued an attempt to locate bulletin for a pickup truck pulling a white enclosed trailer the report said someone had seen fingers sticking out of the trailer negretti immediately began looking for the vehicle because whoa what what a what a report right a short time later a roadside motorist assist employee named gary crosby so gary crosby radioed that he had located a truck matching the description near the butler avenue exit so negretti responded there and arrived on huntington drive at approximately 12 27 pm and by then he said multiple agencies had already arrived on the scene he explained that this kind of multi-agency response is generally reserved for more serious situations and the report of children trapped inside a trailer elevated everyone's level of concern he described the entire situation as as unique like chicone negretti was also wearing a body camera and his footage was admitted into evidence and as the jury watched the video negretti described what officers found inside the trailer first off what does he remember he remembers it was dark very dark and there were no windows and there was no ventilation inside was a brown couch again more like two kind of smaller recliners there was a chair cases of bottled water snack totes camping chairs generators a baby stroller and a purple curtain behind that curtain sat the makeshift bathroom consisting of a blue bucket with a toilet seat attached and a black trash bag lining the bucket the gritty testified that he was genuinely surprised by what he saw yeah i would be too not only because of everything packed into the trailer but because three young girls have been riding inside this thing under those conditions yeah you know who else thought it was wild the entire world when that body cam footage came out everyone was like wtf so it's not just this witness but anyway i'll keep going the jury then watched this body camera footage showing exactly what the officers encountered when they open the trailer again what a moment when they they see that there's a curtain with someone's hand and all of a sudden three little girls in these conservative colored dresses come out during cross examination sam again focused on the trailer door he asked sergeant negretti whether when he first approached the trailer it looked like the back door was hanging open loose or about to fall off negretti answered no from where he was standing the door appeared to be secured sam also asked him to explain then what he meant earlier when he described this case as unique and that when he asked that actually made me giggle can you explain again why this case is unique i wanted him to be like well you know um usually of it's only about once a month when i find a trailer full of young girls you know it's just not on it's not an everyday thing it's just kind of like maybe every couple weeks every other day um you find little girls locked inside dark uh trailers with no ventilation no you know but anyway sam wanted to know sam wanted to know why do you think this case is unique and negretti said in all of his time working highway patrol this was the first time he had ever responded to a situation involving children riding inside a cargo trailer with fingers sticking out of the back i mean sam was probably like really you know you never you've never seen this before i do it all the time anyway he told the jury that this is not something officers normally encounter yeah clearly sam then switched gears and asked about speed he wanted to know whether there was a meaningful difference in danger between traveling 55 miles per hour versus 75 miles per hour if there happened to be a crash oh my gosh yeah this is where he's going sam is like let's let's do some math on speed what would the impact be you know you know with the gasoline in the back and no seat belts and just stuff uh between 55 and 75 um in a while so negretti said he really couldn't answer that you know he wasn't uh that wasn't really his like expertise he wasn't an accident reconstruction expert in other words he couldn't really quantify how much more dangerous one speed would be than the other the state then followed up on that answer during redirect so the prosecutor pointed out that speed isn't the only thing that determines how dangerous a situation is clearly negretti agreed he explained that there are a lot of factors that increase risk right including whether passengers are restrained how much traffic is on the roadway weather conditions and how crowded the road is all of those things have to be considered together the jurors also had several questions for him at this moment and i want to point out this too how about the fact that three little girls in a cargo like this sitting in a driveway is dangerous never mind the difference between 55 and 75 but anyway the jurors had questions i love it when the jurors have questions it's always my favorite i'm always i always like perk right up on on the hard bench that where we're sitting okay jurors have questions let's hear so one juror asked about one of the items found inside the trailer how dangerous would it be if there exactly was where a gas can was a gas can inside with children riding in an enclosed trailer and negretti said that well if the gas can actually contained fuel the fumes alone could become a problem especially inside a confined space it had little to no ventilation i'll throw in especially if you know sam is using the toilet he says he says he wasn't you know you just you decide if he's lying or not you know because he's so honest anyway another juror asked whether other officers had examined the trailer door more closely than he had and negretti answered yes he explained that another officer actually handled opening the trailer and took a closer look at the locking mechanism sam then asked another follow-up question he wanted to know whether the people inside the trailer would have had a better idea of whether the door was securely latched than someone standing outside negretti admitted they probably would sam also asked who was actually the very first officer to arrive at his truck stopped in the parking lot negretti said he was not sure and after the lunch break the state called another witness gary crosby so crosby worked for the arizona department of public safety as a roadside motorist assist technician his job was not to write tickets or make arrests instead he spent his days driving the highways helping stranded motorists changing tires assisting with disabled vehicles and helping at crash scenes and on the day of his incident crosby happened to be sitting in the median when a call came over the radio requesting a welfare check of a truck pulling a trailer leaving the silver saddle he responded to see what was going on and while heading that direction he spotted a dark pickup truck pulling a white enclosed box trailer that matched the description from the call he pulled behind it and radio dispatch with the license plate number and as he continued following the truck he could see fingers sticking out in the back of the enclosed trailer crosby testified that seeing fingers sticking out of a cargo trailer was extremely unusual yeah i would have had a heart attack if i was driving behind a cargo trailer and saw fingers sticking out of the back as a truck eventually pulled into a parking lot crosby followed it inside and waited there for law enforcement officers to arrive and while he watched he never saw anyone get out of any of the vehicles before officers showed up during his testimony crosby identified the truck and trailer shown in several evidence photographs and after officers arrived his role was pretty limited he was not involved in the criminal investigation itself he simply stayed at the scene in case a tow truck was needed sam chose not to cross-examine crosby and then the state's next witness was detective joseph anderson with the arizona department of public safety and i would like to thank detective joseph anderson for having a name i know how to pronounce um thank you and although he is now assigned to the gang task force back in 2022 he was working in highway patrol and over the years he'd handled plenty of crashes involving trailers unsafe loads and commercial vehicles and he also had plenty of personal experience towing trailers himself and in this case anderson served as what's called the case agent so basically that means he became the person responsible for helping organize the investigation from start to finish so he worked alongside the prosecutor reviewed the reports reviewed witnesses gathered body camera and dash camera footage and made sure all of the evidence was collected and organized for trial so pretty important job and i'm going to take a quick drink of water joe don't be mad i am drinking out of plastic i know i need to change my ways it's hard when traveling i love you okay and we are working on some footage that will be pretty good we're working on it okay there's some good stuff so although um so anderson very important gathering all the evidence uh to be organized for trial and then although he wasn't one of the officers who responded that day he did he became heavily involved after the fact and he reviewed all the reports watched the body camera videos interviewed witnesses and even attempted to contact the original 911 caller who reported seeing the trailer unfortunately there was a mystery surrounding the 911 caller because sam bateman sort of made it known in his opening statements that he thinks the 911 caller is a bit of a conspiracy which definitely like made me curious because sam bateman sort of implied where's the 911 caller right like where is this person i don't know if there was one it was i was like okay but you know it definitely like made me curious so we learn now and it's an unfortunate thing and unfortunately the 911 caller was a woman who has since passed away so he wasn't able to interview her himself and as a witness and see what she saw however he did review the recording of her 911 call which ultimately led officers to issue the attempt to locate bulletin for sam's truck and next anderson walked the jury through the route that bateman had taken that day he explained that portions of highways 89 and 89a typically have speed limits of around 65 miles per hour he described those roads as rough and uneven in fact he said one stretch was commonly nicknamed the rapids because the pavement is so bumpy that pulling a trailer through it can be especially difficult and i want to point out that i know these roads in particular they pass a place they kept mentioning um kayabab the you know way where they go and it goes past a place called jacob lake arizona where i actually as a 19 year old girl no woman it feels like i was a girl but a night as a 19 year old i worked at jacob lake arizona it's near the north room of the grand canyon i actually uh was a waitress and then cleaned the cabins and the inns in the morning so uh this is indeed some really rocky curvy terrain it is on the way to the north rim of the grand canyon and deer and wildlife in the roadway it's not like oh watch for them just in case it's when wildlife does come when the deer do cross the road because there are so many you need to stop and be very aware i've never actually even driven that road without having to stop and slam on brakes for for deer and other wildlife it is twisty turny um and full of unexpected things so i just want to say i know this area and yeah i can imagine i'll just say this i cannot imagine riding in the back of a cargo trailer uh while going through this sort of terrain i guess you could say and because the pavement is so bumpy pulling this trailer through it yeah can be especially difficult clearly as i just pointed out and i i guess i'm just re-emphasizing this yes i know this terrain it is indeed that and as drivers approach flagstaff the speed limits gradually decrease from 65 miles per hour down to 55 and then eventually 45. the route also included interstate 40 which anderson described as a busy interstate with heavy traffic potholes and constantly changing road conditions can you imagine a pothole sitting back there it's like my worst nightmare i mean this is just this is like yeah uh drive you know from hell so to help the jury understand exactly where all of this happened prosecutors then displayed several maps tracing the route the caravan traveled that day the discussion then went into anderson's review of the body camera footage and the photographs taken after the stop he explained that these photographs were taken after the girls had already been removed from the trailer and after officers had opened everything up and because of that those pictures did not necessarily show the trailer in the same condition it was in while it was traveling down the road the jury then listened as anderson explained how the trailer's locking mechanism worked and why investigators believed it had not been properly secured while the trailer was in motion the state wanted to show that although parts of the latch may have appeared engaged the trailer door itself was not fully secured during the drive was not finally anderson explained why in his opinion this cargo trailer in particular should have never ever been used to transport people let alone little girls he testified that enclosed cargo trailers are designed to be as lightweight as possible they are built from thin metal aluminum and plywood on purpose on purpose protecting cargo from the weather but they are not built to protect human beings unlike passenger vehicles they do not have airbags or crumple zones or reinforced frames or other safety features designed to absorb the force of the collision he also pointed out that the girls had no way to get out on their own and he described it that they were essentially locked inside a metal box he went even further saying that in his opinion because there was so little ventilation he wouldn't even consider the trailer suitable for transporting livestock again he walked the jury through all of the loose objects investigators found inside here they are again generators gas cans water jugs shovels shovel i mean can you imagine camping gear furniture he explained that in any collision those objects would become projectiles he relative even relatively low speed crashes can be fatal for people who are not wearing seat belts let alone someone inside a cargo trailer where both people and heavy equipment are just like free to move around anderson said the danger increases dramatically his description was blunt even if the trailer had been completely empty the passengers would have been thrown around violently but with all those loose objects mixed in he told the jury it would become essentially a blender during a crash a blender and he said that wasn't speculation it was basic physics common sense and exactly why trailers like this are not designed to carry passengers so during cross exam sam is up for his cross exam sammy boy sam once again tried to steer the conversation toward the condition of the trailer itself rather than the decision to have people riding inside it he first pointed out that detective anderson had experienced hauling trailers and asked whether a tandem axle trailer generally tows better than a single axle trailer anderson agreed that generally speaking it does sam then asked whether there are many different styles and types of trailers again anderson agreed sam followed that up by asking whether the trailer involved in this case looked like a for a fairly normal enclosed cargo trailer anderson agreed that it was a fairly typical cargo trailer and from there sam started asking more technical questions about the trailer itself including how the latches worked and the condition of the doors at one point anderson explained that he never personally inspected sam's trailer before the traffic stop based on what he observed in the investigation however it appeared the trailer was generally in poor condition it looked like it was in poor condition he said several components did not appear to fit together properly and then sam then displayed a photograph though showing a piece of black plastic hanging near one of the trailer doors they asked anderson if he knew exactly what that piece of plastic was anderson explained it appeared to be part of the trailer's weather seal sam also wanted to establish exactly when the crime scene photographs had been taken he repeatedly asked whether those pictures reflected the trailer before or after officers had opened it what was his point his point was that he wanted the jury to understand the photographs didn't necessarily show the trailer in the same condition it had been while it was actually traveling down the highway and sam also asked whether the damaged weather seal could have allowed at least some airflow into the trailer anderson acknowledged that there may have been some air entering through the damaged seal but that didn't change his overall opinion that the trailer lacked proper ventilation for transporting people the jurors only had one question for anderson but it went straight to the heart of the case even if every latch on the trailer had been working perfectly it would still be safe to transport any living person in it would it still be safe to transport any living person inside the trailer at highway speeds yeah he asked him that that was his cross-exam question sam sam was like i know what to ask him good it it still be safe to transport any living person and anderson's answer was like yeah no no after that the state rested yeah arrested its case i thought there maybe would be some cell phone um tax or or some things or gps but no they felt good the state rested their case the jury was an excuse from the courtroom so the attorneys and judge could discuss a legal issue outside of their presence sam asked the judge to acquit him which is i will say i mean even though it makes you cringe to hear sam ask for to be acquitted in this uh it is pretty common it seldom works but it is a common thing asked in in criminal trials essentially sam argued that the prosecution had not presented enough evidence for a reasonable juror to convict him even though in my opinion watching three little girls walk out of that trailer was enough evidence sam didn't think so he wanted an acquittal sam argued that the state's entire case was based on hypothetical dangers instead of acts actual harm he pointed out that no one had proven the girls were physically injured he argued there was no evidence showing the loose items inside the trailer had actually shifted around or struck anyone according to sam the state had only presented possibilities about what could have happened if there had been a crash he also argued that prosecutors failed to prove the required mental state for the charges so in other words he claimed there was no evidence showing that he knowingly or intentionally placed the girls in danger okay i mean as i always say you miss 100 of the shots you don't take the prosecutor strongly disagreed he reminded the judge that sam himself had admitted during the trial that the situation was dangerous he also argued there was overwhelming evidence showing that the girls were placed in a situation likely to cause injury yes multiple witnesses testified they were scared the girls themselves reported being frightened former members of the group testified the situation was dangerous and several law enforcement officers independently reached the same conclusion after seeing the conditions inside the trailer the prosecutor argued that was more than enough evidence for the jury to decide whether sam was guilty and after hearing both sides the judge denied bateman's motion he ruled that the state had presented substantial evidence on every element of the charges and the judge's view there was enough evidence that generally fix my mic there was enough evidence that a reasonable jury could find sam guilty if they believed the state's witnesses that meant the trial would continue and the case will ultimately be decided by the jury and next the judge asked bateman sam sam bateman if he had decided whether or not to testify and we were like okay this is the question we were waiting for yeah sam are you have you decided to testify we were all ears so what's going to happen and he said that he did wish to testify and since he had chosen to represent himself this is so good his advisory attorney was going to read a list of questions that he had prepared ahead of time uh we could see them it was on lined college ruled paper uh a lot of questions all the questions were were labeled it was all almost immediately though the prosecution objected over and over again i was like why why are you objecting let's hear it i want to hear his questions um but the first several questions never even made it to the jury uh because sam wanted to ask things like whether he was a religious person whether he believed he'd been targeted by law enforcement and why members of the flds church often appear secretive and every single one of those questions was met within objection and the judge sustained them meaning the jury the jury never got to hear those answers but but the jury did get to hear the questions which was fascinating that's all you needed like there were some really wild questions uh sam was asking himself i mean it was we have the full we have the full testimony again like i said we put it up early this morning with improved audio improved visual go go watch it i mean he does mumble uh sam is painful to listen to let's be honest it's like chad daybell but worse like chad daybell enunciates i mean he's soft spoken and quiet but like at least says the whole word where sam is like uh uh you know uh i don't even know let's see see if i can even do it like sam you know sam's like you know do you do you know our police maybe uh ain't you know i don't know are they trying to target me maybe but i don't know i mean it's just it's just so hard to hear him and when he felt when he did ask if he had been targeted in this case um he managed to answer i do before the objection was sustained so he did say that i do i do feel that i've been targeted the judge um instructed though the jury to disregard both the question and the answer and so this sort of pattern of his questions continued for quite a while the questions were fascinating i actually loved it it was like the best case scenario with this testimony um you get the question he's asking and then an objection comes and so nobody he he can't answer it but the question already said enough like questions about his religion how he was raised how he raised his own children whether he considered himself a prophet right whether you consider yourself a prophet and then there's an objection i mean that that's good stuff man you're like oh my gosh you went there um i mean clearly the jury is picking up who sam thinks he is and how he thinks of himself um questions about whether he was sympathetic toward children whether this was a great one whether he had been in a fight while incarcerated so he wrote down ask me whether i have been in a fight while incarcerated like he thought that was a good idea think about that guys this jury doesn't know about his previous federal conviction it's like lori that's not part of this case and he's literally thinking he's like writing questions down to be asked and he's like oh this is gonna be a good one i know what i'm gonna ask myself i know what i'm gonna have them ask me on the stand let's ask if i've ever been in a fight while incarcerated i mean you can't make this up yeah go ahead that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying i know i know grayson's over here saying like can we talk about how like he wrote these questions to prepare his answers but he thought they were all a good idea like this wasn't like oops i accidentally said something no like lori valo like slips sometimes oh i know no i know i don't want to give her credit for anything but like lori valo slips sometimes like on accident but she wasn't like i know i'm gonna write down a question for myself about being incarcerated and my previous convictions like like oh my gosh like you know a lot of people kind of told me he's low iq or like he had that traumatic brain injury like i'm i'm believing it i'm like okay i'm saying i'm like that is true when he he when he not just when he said the bathroom thing when he ended on it like he was like this is my moment this is my final grand finale i'm gonna let them know i did not poop in the bathroom grayson had to like bend over because you can't make faces in court and she like had to go on like she had to lean way down because you you started to laugh okay this has been a tangent but no i know these questions let's talk about this though because they were mind-blowing we were all talking as a group at lunch about it too and after and even with the jury with some of the jurors that we were talking to today they were talking about the questions too like how the questions answered everything they needed to know about sam bateman what were some of the other questions there was the incarcerated one was was fascinating and then they there he he asked whether he thought he was charismatic or persuasive that was a question too and then it was shut down so he couldn't answer it but again all you need is like the question you're like wow okay so he's like ask me ask me if i'm charismatic or persuasive um the judge just kept um objecting before he could answer i kind of wanted him to not object as many i was like no let him answer i want to hear what he says so so so sam are you charismatic and persuasive i'm listening i want to hear tell me tell me about your persuasive nature um alas a lot of objections there was another one i really wanted him to answer but it was objected to before any of these questions could go over uh there were a few questions though that were allowed so here's some of the questions that the judge allowed um sam asked whether he considered himself an experienced and careful driver and he answered yes um no i'm you know also you know he's not grandiose at all he oh he asked he asked himself uh ask if i um meditated before this trip did i meditate before this trip what oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah thank you carol that one was that one was a a delight he asked he asked why aren't why don't you have a lot of friends in the courtroom and also let's point this out the courtroom was pretty full the jury doesn't know who his friends are who his friends aren't like they don't know who these people are so he's like ask me why i have no friends here yeah thank you carol for that reminder anybody else was there yeah he asked himself why his friends weren't there um delusions of grandeur yeah do you guys i know we watched it last night but let's be honest it was like really poor quality do you guys want to watch a few of these questions or do you guys want to keep moving on yeah yeah joe yes why aren't any of my friends there um i wanted to know his answer too um but you know but objection which again it's so it's such a giggle because it's like you chose to ask these questions knowing that like that the judge could object and like now you look like a total loser why aren't my friends here um esther weiss line said the answer is because he has very few friends indeed yeah um yeah oh i wish this is where they're accompanying sad trombone uh trombone noises that would be yeah there were like sound effects in the courtroom every time he's like why aren't a lot of your friends here objection they people want to watch let's pick um he did not wear um his white leather jacket unfortunately um um i don't think he has many friends in prison either um yeah let's watch a little bit of it jose like you want to torture us twice we won't watch a lot of it um we won't watch a lot of it um but uh let's watch a little bit do we have some of the best i think some of the best questions okay we found the best part we will not suffer through this whole thing don't worry it's an hour you guys can watch it on your own time um but let's watch a little bit of it just together just together kathy viceline is saying that [01:29:57] Speaker 2: question 36 what are your feelings about the laws of arizona do you think that is possible that an individual or organization may have some prejudice against you or the fundamentalist church of latter-day saints rejection speculation have you become aware at any point of a so-called vendetta against you from any law enforcement agency or other organization objection comes sustained 39 what are a few of the core teachings of the fundamentalist church of latter-day saints objection notes sustained question 40. did any of the officers who were seen during the august 28th start with issue [01:31:08] Speaker ?: come across as indicative to you projection notes [01:31:13] Speaker 2: will you reread the question mr harvest from mr did any of the officers who were seen during the august 28th stop seemed addictive towards you [01:31:25] Speaker ?: and the addiction developments yes or was all allowed to answer [01:31:32] Speaker 3: yes there seemed to be a really decent medical problem and like i say i have nothing but also i really appreciate what they do from our country but i don't want to mention his name but [01:31:46] Speaker ?: i asked him several questions and he yelled at me right in the car i almost like it had a pretty [01:31:53] Speaker 3: kind of preconceived decision of what he's going to do [01:32:01] Speaker 1: i appreciate him but he yelled at me [01:32:05] Speaker 2: question 42 how was it that the fingers of the alleged victims were sticking out of the door yet the body cam footage viewed at trial shows officers unlatching the door from the outside [01:32:21] Speaker 3: i think this is my belief is that you can't but the vertical pipe going up the trailer door i don't know if you have experience with trailers but you can latch the bottom door excuse me the bottom latch and you have to be very tough you have to stretch that one inch line to band and get it to [01:32:44] Speaker ?: close on the top i'm sure that many of you have that experience um so i just there's just a discrepancy between the testimony and the radio cam the body cam stuff and just it's not matching i mean i'm sure [01:33:02] Speaker 3: that their fingers were sticking out i didn't know that i was on the phone with them they haven't knowledge of that but i'm just no way they're not going to believe all the video cam stuff and uh yeah you can show them during the august 14th stop that occurred in mojave county involving [01:33:23] Speaker ?: the alleged victims riding as passengers in a utv why did you appear to be confused when you were [01:33:31] Speaker 2: contacted by law enforcement that's because i was confused i had no idea those girls were back there [01:33:40] Speaker 3: they said that they asked me in like my hand um i just forgot and i'm so busy organizing everything [01:33:50] Speaker 1: can you have the word we asked about friends or was that earlier [01:33:54] Speaker 3: yeah when he said that can you fit can you fit him in the front i was just like i was completely and totally shocked like i thought he was talking about two to two of those motorbikes on the back you're strapping on the back and so i was like why on earth would you state some motorbikes [01:34:09] Speaker 1: on the front anyway so i turned them to a gnomes and no she said no they're gnomes right now [01:34:29] Speaker 2: do you have any additional thoughts or feelings about that stop [01:34:38] Speaker 3: oh yes i did i decided why would you knowingly drive off when the door for the trailer was open because i didn't know it was open when i hit the other back there because i thought i saw something in the other vehicle just like that would you go out in the highway or the highway or the freeway it took me 700 000 miles so um question 10. do you consider yourself a prophet [01:35:24] Speaker 2: rejection and relevance and cultural emotions sustained question 12. how do you feel about people describing your character [01:35:34] Speaker 3: question 12. under what form of belief were you raised under [01:35:43] Speaker ?: rejection and your alterations [01:35:47] Speaker 2: question 13. would you consider yourself to be kind and impatient rejection of character richelle [01:35:54] Speaker 3: question 14. why are there very few of your friends at your hearings [01:36:07] Speaker 2: rejection and relevance sustained question 15. under what mindset do you raise your children [01:36:31] Speaker ?: rejection relevance [01:36:37] Speaker 2: do you care about your friends and family and other people who are with you on this trip [01:36:47] Speaker 3: exciting with all my heart i love them more than my own life [01:36:53] Speaker 1: that's i can't even laugh at that i love them more than my life sick prior to being charged in this case [01:37:05] Speaker 2: have you heard of a child abuse case before and what were your beliefs on child abuse [01:37:10] Speaker 1: rejection what were you what were your beliefs on child abuse [01:37:18] Speaker 2: are you sympathetic towards children or the underprivileged objection moments are you actually thinking the kids are underprivileged what mom while incarcerated have you been in a fight or an argument rejection relevance sustained question 20. would you describe yourself as a strong willed person or are you gullible [01:37:42] Speaker 1: question 20. do you believe in letting others make their own choices [01:37:50] Speaker 2: rejection relevance [01:37:54] Speaker 3: all about yes that's the basis of all that i believe is for agency that everyone choose teach me teach them correctness okay [01:38:07] Speaker 1: do you consider yourself a charismatic or persuasive person [01:38:11] Speaker 2: objection how it's sustained what were you from three are you a deceitful person objection of relevance and the courts rules [01:38:23] Speaker 1: so there you go we'll let you guys continue on your own my favorite also i'll have to point out is like how the each question was numbered they're like number 15 number 67 number okay do you want to get do you want to come over [01:38:42] Speaker 4: okay so when you show them but when they when they were talking about what questions he was going to ask [01:39:12] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you. [01:40:12] Speaker 1: Hey, can you guys hear me now? This is not my microphone, which is why it sounds different. We're working on the sound situation. We're restarting our sound system. You guys can hear me now, right, while we figure this out? Yeah, we think we might have unplugged the mic when I moved it, but then when we kind of plugged it back in, it wasn't working. So we're doing what all people hire to do tech do, which is turn it off and turn it back on. It seems to be the ultimate answer to all tech problems. Okay. Good. [01:41:02] Speaker 4: Let me reset it for you. [01:41:07] Speaker ?: Try that. [01:41:08] Speaker 1: Okay. How's that? Hello, hello? Okay. All right. And it's the good sound, right? The good sound? Okay. We'll check. All right. Next time, we'll just have you jump on over there, and then they can hear you better. All right. Okay. We're good. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. So, in other words, he tells the jury that he was actually very careful and said he tried to calculate everything he did to avoid unnecessary danger. He also claimed to have extensive experience driving trucks and trailers, which makes all the difference. It's not the fact that they're trapped in a trailer prison. It doesn't matter because he is just like the best driver ever. He meditated before this. He's a prophet, thus just has a gift for driving. Another question the judge allowed was whether Sam considered himself kind and patient. You guys heard that. And he responded, and honestly, this part I couldn't even laugh at. It was despicable to me. He responded that he was an extremely caring person. Oh, yeah. And you guys didn't hear anything Grayson said. She's letting me know that you guys were saying that in chat. So, what Grayson pointed out, and it was true, and we were giggling about it, is before when they were like, do you want to testify? He was like a little kid in Christmas morning, like super excited. This is my description, but you remind me of it. He was like, yeah, I got all my questions right here. It was like he was prepared for his homework assignment, and he had all these pages of handwritten questions all numbered and labeled. And he was like, who wants him? Do you want him? And he tried to hand him to the prosecutor, and he was like, dude, I'm good. I don't want to touch. I don't want to touch your questions. I don't want him. And then he tried to read them. He was like, let me read them all to you. And everyone's like, no, we're good, which was great, because then he got to read them all on the stand, and most of them, again, were objections to them. So, that's what Grayson explained and reminded me of. And so, and then this part again, he is saying that he is an extremely caring person. Made me sick to hear that, adding that he was patient, kind, and that he didn't force anyone to do anything. Thus, victim blaming, right? It's the 11-year-old's fault that she was trapped inside a dark, hot trailer. Nobody else is. He was also asked whether he cared about the people traveling with him that day. Sam answered, yes, I do, with all my heart. I love them more than my own life. Oh, and that's some insider info if you think about this. Sam has told people he thinks the girls are coming back. So, if you think of it through that context, he's literally saying, I love them more than my own life, which is disgusting, but he's saying that. But, he's telling some people, I've heard, this is insider info, that he thinks they're all going to come back. You know, classic. So, and I can tell you, I've, I've spoke to several of them, they ain't going back. So, it's interesting to look at it from that perspective too. Another question that made it through was whether he believed people should be free to make their own choices. Again, you heard that there. He, he, he referred to free agency, saying that people should be taught correct principles and allowed to govern themselves. Next, his counsel asked him whether, when he left the last gas station before the traffic stop, did he know the girls were inside? And Sam answered that he did not know the girls were inside. That was the base of his argument. He just simply did not know. He then immediately tried to clarify what he meant. He, he admitted that he knew the girls had been riding in the trailer during the trip. That he knew. but claimed his plan had always been for the girls to move into the vehicles before getting onto the interstate because of the 75 mile per hour speed limit. So, in the dark, non-ventilated, hot, filthy, dangerous trailer while going 55, totes okay. You know, around the windy, windy, you know, road. That's okay because it wasn't 75 miles per hour. He was going to unlock their little trailer prison door before the 75 mile per hour speed limit hit. That's, that's, that's, I mean, please, jury, don't you realize I am so generous. I was going to let them out before I hit 75 mile per hour. According to Sam, he saw one of the girls are, get out of the trailer and walk toward another vehicle. And because of that, Sam claims that he assumed everyone else had gotten out as well. He just assumed it. He just, oh, they're all out. He told the jury that if he had known anyone was still inside this trailer, he would have latched the trailer door before leaving, also admitting that there was a latch problem. There indeed was from his own mouth. Sam then gave some lengthy version of what he says happened in the minutes leading up to this traffic stop. He testified that they were driving south toward Tucson to attend the Grant Cardone conference. And then during a bathroom stop, he said a man approached the group and questioned them in what Sam described as an angry manner. He claimed that this interaction had him feeling nervous. He testified that he left believing all of the girls had moved into the other vehicles before they entered the freeway. And then shortly after getting onto the interstate, he received a phone call from Dee telling him that the trailer door was open. And then Sam said that he immediately thought, oh my goodness, because he wasn't sure how far the door had opened. That was like the stupidest thing. I know. That was such a... Oh, you like my impersonation of him? Well... Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well, I don't know how to say it. It's a very unique voice. Oh my goodness. But then, I mean, but like this was also just like a hilarious answer. So he's like admitting to all of the things. He's like, yeah, so anyway, I thought they weren't in there, but then Dee called and said she was in there and that the door was not latched. And his first thought wasn't like, oh, let me pull over right now. It was, oh my goodness. Because he didn't know how far the door had opened or exactly what happened. But then he noticed Officer Crosby pulling behind him and then Sam admitted that from the outside his driving probably looks suspicious. He exited the freeway, turned into a parking lot, said his goal was to just simply close the trailer door and move the girls into the vehicles. You know, but then this is when his testimony took a very strange turn. Sam told the jury that before the traffic stop, he believed he, I don't know, I don't know. this was really [01:48:54] Speaker ?: this was really [01:48:54] Speaker 1: a great moment. We've been talking about this. So, Sam, maybe we should play this. I can't believe we didn't play this. It's okay. It's okay. We'll just talk about it. You guys can go watch it after. Sam tells the jury that before the traffic stop, he believes, oh, you found it, that he had experienced telepathy. is that how you pronounce it? Tell during an earlier encounter with law enforcement. And by the way, this did have an impact with the jurors a little. I want you to know while speaking to a couple of the jurors today outside of the courtroom, one of them mentioned this moment. [01:49:37] Speaker ?: So, [01:49:38] Speaker 1: it really stuck with the jurors. They said that they wanted to ask a question. They said they wanted to ask a juror question. What am I thinking right now? To test his skills. You have it? Let's play. [01:49:50] Speaker 3: I saw Crosby right up behind me on the corner of the trailer. And so I was already just kind of living on the edge. [01:49:59] Speaker ?: And I also had, I know people may not believe in telepathy or whatever you want to call it, but I've already had some telepathic experiences when Mr. Horsley pulled me over that showed me that this is actually coming. Anyway, they may not believe that there's very scientific principles [01:50:17] Speaker 3: so I was running on the edge and he pulled over and pulled right behind me and so I pulled off onto the side of the road and he pulled me around just like you described and I pulled off on the first road, first exit off the freeway again. I think it's like one mile from the beginning. [01:50:42] Speaker 1: So yeah, there you go. Joe's asking how did we not both get kicked out of court for laughing? There were moments where I were, like I said, we were on the front row. We were right behind Sam and I would start and I would just get a straight face or look down but it was today Grayson had to like completely go down. You had to go down. It was the poop moment, right? [01:51:07] Speaker 4: I was like, [01:51:10] Speaker 1: you're going there and that also made an impact on the juror too. I asked, I was like, what did you think of that last, you know, mic drop moment, the finale, the last thing he wanted you to know about using the makeshift toilet and he was like, why did that even matter? Yeah, anyway, super scientific guys. Don't laugh. Well, I also like he said, I also like how he said I had a telepathic experience. Okay, you guys might not believe it but it's super scientific. I mean, which one is it like? Okay, let's keep going. Let's keep going. He claimed that those experiences had somehow warned him that this stop was coming. He acknowledged that people might not believe him, insisted these were very scientific principles and then Sam explained that those beliefs left him feeling extremely nervous by the time Officer Crosby was following behind him. So, that explains his paranoia. Everyone was worried. Why was he so nervous? Guys, he was having a telepathic experience. Now, we know we have the answers that we've all been wondering after watching this body camera footage because remember he walks up super nervous and we're all like, he must be worried he's in trouble. No, he just had a telepathic experience and he knew that he was in trouble. Not that he thought he did anything wrong but telepathic experience. The answers we're finally getting. This body camera footage in new light. Okay. Anyway, he testified that after pulling into the parking lot he waited there for several minutes before additional officers arrived and the rest of the encounter unfolded. And finally, Sam was asked whether the girls inside the trailer had phones and he said they did. According to Sam, they had three devices between them. He's like, yeah, you want their numbers? You want their social security numbers? I know it all. You want their birth certificates? You want their passwords? You want their phones? I got it. So, I even have binoculars in the middle console of the truck because I like to spy on people. What'd you say? Oh, Esther said his dad was a science teacher. Yeah. Well, I heard some interesting things about his father. That's for another episode. So, interesting. Anyway, he believed that one of the girls in the trailer may have actually had an iPod rather than a phone. And then he went on to testify that they had those devices with them the entire time because that was how they normally traveled and because he wanted to make sure they would be able to communicate if they needed to. Like, you know, if the latch is open, for example, which he would then ignore and be like, okay, let's go. onto the freeway. So, as his testimony continues, the same pattern keeps repeating. Like, his attorney would ask a question, the prosecutor would object, and then more often than not, the judge sustained the objection, as you saw there, before he could say much of anything. There was another question that was asked that he asked himself. That's what's so funny, too, is he realized he's asking himself these questions. He asked whether he had been under increased mental pressure during this trip. The prosecution immediately objected and the judge sustained that one, too. So, the jury never heard that answer. But then, he was allowed to describe that mental state when police finally pulled him over. He explains he was anxious. Now, we know it was because of the telepathic experience. He said several witnesses had testified that he always seemed nervous around law enforcement, though, so you can't blame the telepathic experience anymore because all the other witnesses are actually saying, no, he was just always nervous around law enforcement. But according to Sam, people in his community, though, so then he switched gears. He's like, well, no, first it was telepathic. Now, he's like, well, yeah, I'm always nervous around police because people in this community had experienced multiple police raids over the years. So, encounters with law enforcement naturally made many of them uneasy. At the same time, he insisted he had nothing against police officers personally. He was like, back the blue. No, he didn't say that. But it is always funny to me when people talk about how paranoid they are for police officers and then do things that are quite disrespectful and then say that they have nothing against them and they they love them, you know. Anyway, he told the jury that he appreciated what they do and believed the country wouldn't be safe without them. So, that's good. That's true. So, [01:55:56] Speaker ?: yeah, [01:55:56] Speaker 1: he probably means that. He described his anxiety though around police as one of his personal weaknesses. That was such a weird, like, response. a personal weakness, his anxiety around him. If you want my personal thoughts on this, he has a lot of shame around that body camera footage. He has a lot of shame around the fact that he is nervous and intimidated over police officers. Because he's sure not intimidated by the little girls he throws into the back of a trailer. and he is certainly not intimidated by all of the people he abused. Somehow, police officers are his kryptonite. And it sounds like he has a lot of shame over it. It makes him probably feel less of a man as it should. Because they're like, we see you and we see what you're doing. And we're going to handcuff you now. Anyway, the questioning then went into whether the group had stopped to use the restroom on the drive to Flagstaff. And Sam said he did not remember using the toilet and the trailer. He disputed the testimony from another witness who had claimed he had. This really bothered him. Again, this is not the time I talked about. This is yesterday. So he's really upset by this, though. He just disputes this. He then added he had asked family members about it the night before. They didn't remember him using the trailer toilet either. This just really stuck with him. He was like, how dare someone suggest that I use a toilet? The prosecutor immediately objected because Sam was repeating what other people had told him outside the court. Essentially, the judge instructed the jury to disregard the statements and only consider Sam's own personal recollection. Several more questions made it through objections, objections, as you heard. The jury never heard Sam explain whether anything during the trial had surprised him, what he thought about Arizona's laws, whether he believed people were prejudiced against him or the FLDS, whether law enforcement had a vendetta against him or what the core teachings of his religious group were, which at one point he did explain that his religion wasn't what people thought. He believes and he has a deep belief in the law of attraction and science. He explained that too. So when he's like, do you guys want to know what I believe? It was sort of this mesh of the law of attraction and science put together and then telepathy. So every one of those questions was shut down by the judge. One question did get through. It involved the officers on the August 28th traffic stop. It came across as vindictive. Sam gave like this mixed answer, right? He complimented most of the officers. He likes to do that. But also, I'm just going to point this out. That is abuse. That is coercive control and it is manipulation. When you compliment and flatter people and then coercively control them and are abusive to them, that is so manipulative. And so I think that's what would make me cringe every time. He would talk to the police and compliment them. It was, I could just see what he does. It bothers me so much. So he's complimenting the officers repeatedly, calling them decent people, again saying he appreciates law enforcement. And then he claims one of the officers yelled at him, poor guy, during the stop and he said he felt like the officer had already made up his mind about what was going to happen before speaking with him. Wah, wah, bring out the tiny violin. So he admires them so much, he respects police officers so much, but one of them yelled at him. One of them yelled at him. So Sam was also asked about what he viewed as an inconsistency in the evidence. He specifically, again, that witnesses had testified that there were girls' fingers sticking out through the trailer door, while body camera footage showed officers unlatching the trailer from the outside. So Sam suggested that there was a discrepancy. He explained that the trailer doors can be difficult to latch properly because of the vertical locking bar and argued, in his opinion, the testimony and the body camera footage didn't completely line up. So he's thrown out some conspiracies. He said that he knows that the girls' fingers were sticking out of the trailer because he had been talking to them on the phone, but he questioned whether the video told the whole story. And this was just where I was like, you are missing the point. I mean, none of these charges have to do with whether the girls' fingers were actually sticking out or not. Like, the charges remained the same. But nonetheless, the defense then revisited the earlier traffic stop in Mojave County involving a side-by-side ATV. Sam was asked why he appeared confused when law enforcement contacted him that day. His answer was because he was confused. Poor guy. I definitely think he's confused. Not an excuse, but he certainly seems confused all the time. According to Sam, he had forgotten the girls were riding in the back, and when an officer asked if they could fit in the front, Sam said he thought the officer was referring to the motorbike strapped in the trailer. And it wasn't until gnomes pointed out, which is what we heard, that the girls were actually in the back, that he realized what the officer meant. And when asked whether he had any additional thoughts about the earlier stop, he paused before saying he had decided not to answer. And then it was the August 28th traffic stop, he was asked why he drove away if the trailer door was open, and then he again said that he didn't know the door was open and he believed the girls had already moved into the other vehicles before they got onto the freeway. And let's pause there because if your mind is about to explode with the contradictions, join the club. This is called like word salad gaslighting at its finest. Which one is it? So he's just said that he got a call from D learning the doors open, and that's when he realized the girls were in the vehicle, and he knew the girls were in the vehicle, and he was talking to the girls in the vehicle, and he knew the door was open. Right? Did you guys hear that? I heard that. I heard that multiple times. But now he's saying that he didn't know the door was open, and he believed the girls had already moved into the other vehicles before they got onto the freeway. So now he's saying, no, they weren't there, I didn't know they were there, and I didn't know the door was open. I mean, he's so frustrating. The defense also asked what all the equipment inside the trailer was for. This was good. This was good. They're like, so tell us about the equipment. Why do you even have these things? Why are you even traveling with the random equipment in this trailer? I had the same question. I was like, yeah, I want to know. Hit me up. Tell me. Tell me, Sam. Why do you have a shovel and a thing of gasoline and a generator and a stroller and all this stuff? Sam says it was for camping and picnic gear. Then I was like, but then I was like, wait a second. I sat there thinking, but you guys have an Airbnb. You just said you had an Airbnb. So, okay, camping and picnic gear, huh? And then he explains that the group regularly went on hikes, camping trips, and weekly picnics because those activities were things they enjoyed doing together. Okay. Even though you're going to a motivational speech and have an Airbnb set up, great. When asked whether the girls knew they had a choice about where they rode during the trip, Sam admitted he never specifically told them they could choose. Oh, okay. Okay, so you say they have a choice, but they don't. You didn't tell them they could choose. Instead, he just simply believed they already understood his personality so well. They just knew him so well in his personality that they knew they could reject any suggestion he made. Okay, yeah. And you know what, I guess? I bet they did know you so well that they knew that they could not reject any suggestion you ever made. He said that they may have personally believed that they didn't have a choice, but then insisted they absolutely did. this is called coercive control at its finest. It's disgusting. The jury also learned that the mothers of the three girls riding in the trailer were living with Sam at the time. And then later Sam was asked whether he shared his teachings with people outside of his family. He said yes, and he described himself as someone who believed in combining the law of attraction with science and said he enjoyed mentoring other people. I also just want to point out his belief system of the law of attraction in science. For those that have seen the Trust Me documentary, remember that beautiful vision board he had done up where he said he had like ginormous mansion house that he was going to build and he was going to meet the Queen of England? I mean, my first thought when I saw that was like somebody's watching the law of attraction. Somebody's watching the secret and he is making his vision board. How'd that work out for you, Sam? How's that house? How's the Queen? Did she say hi? No, you're behind bars. How's that science? How's that science? How's your telepathic experiences? Anyway, according to Sam, he spent thousands of dollars over the years being mentored himself, particularly in business and personal mindset and he tried to pass those lessons on to others. He said that anyone was free to reject what he taught and claimed that he would never become angry if they did. That made me angry just hearing that because that is not true. I'm just going to pause and let you guys know that we have been going over four weeks now, months. We have a big show, if not a couple, a few shows of some court docs that nobody's heard before that aren't in the Trust Me documentary. I'm just going to say this, they are sick. It's worse than you guys even know. Not all of you. I know there's a lot of you in chat right now and I'm grateful you're here that have been affected by Sam and his teachings and you know exactly what he did. I don't think the whole world knows exactly the horrific things he did. But yes, he would become very, very angry and he was very scary and he did horrible things. The defense also asked about the frequent phone calls between Sam and members of the caravan during this trip and Sam testified that most of those calls were simply conversations and mentoring sessions. In this particular case though, he said the calls also served another purpose and that was to make sure the girls riding in the trailer were safe. Aww, what a sweetheart. Those calls served another purpose. While he was on the phone with them while muted on the whole trip, they were to make sure they were safe. That's so sweet. So sweet. That's why he stopped when he learned that it was unlatched. What a guy. Bateman insisted that his family members were always free to ignore his instructions and according to Sam, he regularly told people that if they didn't want to be there, if they didn't want to travel with him or didn't want to follow his plans, they were free to leave at any time. And finally, Sam asked why previous witnesses had described him as paranoid or unusually nervous around law enforcement. And again, he started talking about the history of police raids involving his community and even referenced a large raid in Texas. That is about Warren Jeffs, the raid in Texas. And before he continued about that raid in Texas, however, the prosecutor objected once again and the judge sustained the objection, striking that testimony from the record before the jury could consider it. And near the end of Bateman's direct testimony, he returned to something he had mentioned earlier about why he was so nervous around law enforcement. He testified that during an earlier traffic stop was an officer Horsley. again, more telepathy. Is that how you pronounce it? Why am I feeling like this? I'm pronouncing it wrong. Well, I know it's telepathic, but is it telepathy or telepathy? That's what I'm wondering. I'm like, am I telepathy? Well, I don't know either, but I'm not the one that experiences it, so he should know. I've never experienced it, never planned to, so not my jam. You're not going to experience it. Yeah, only Sam experiences it. Sam told the jury that he believed his subconscious somehow communicated with the officer's subconscious. Oh, they connected. He admitted that he wasn't sure exactly how it worked, even though late earlier he said it was scientific. He didn't understand how it worked, but those experiences convinced him that authorities were trying to build additional charges against him so they could eventually send him to prison. You think, or maybe you just thought that maybe it wasn't, maybe it wasn't a telepathic experience. Maybe you just realized you were breaking the law and hurting people and harming people and that that could maybe land you in prison. I don't know. But he then tied that belief to another encounter at the Silver Saddle where he said a man approached the group, and described an angry manner that this man had and started questioning them about where they were from. Sam said that that interaction made him think that someone was going to call law enforcement and that left him on edge before the traffic stop. The defense then established that there was plenty of room for the other vehicles traveling in the caravan. Sam testified that every one of the girls could have fit inside another vehicle if they wanted to. Oh, really? Because I'm also hearing a variety of things there. He also asked whether people in the caravan generally followed his directions. And then Sam said, yes, they usually do follow my directions. But then insisted it was not because he demanded obedience. It wasn't because he had trained them to follow whatever he said. It was just because they did. You know, he's clearly just special. He claimed they just loved and respected him. Yeah, you can't make this up. He's claiming that they just loved and respected him. And he said he's never threatened people with damnation or hell if they disagree with him. That's so sweet. Because, you know, if someone disagrees with you, do you, you know, if someone threatens me, I'm like, I'm going to send you, I hope, for damnation and hell. I mean, it's such a strange thing to say. Tell me what you do. He said that they just love and respect him and that he had never threatened people with damnation or hell if they disagreed with him. Yeah, I hope not. I don't do that either. That's good. Good, Sam. Good boy. Don't do that. Also, I'm sure he did that every day. Anyway, once again, he talked about his extensive driving experience, telling the jury he had driven hundreds of thousands of miles and had a lot of experience hauling heavy trailers with pickup trucks. And when his counsel asked why he believed he was the only adult arrested, the prosecution objected and the judge sustained it before Sam could answer. And then the defense addressed another issue raised throughout the trial. Several witnesses had testified that Sam did not immediately pull over after learning people were inside the trailer and that the trailer door was open. Sam disputed that version of events. He testified that he was pulled over as quickly as he believed it was safe to do. Sam says that he didn't want to stop on the shoulder because he saw an exit just ahead. Again, he also admitted that he was nervous because he believed Officer Crosby was following him. He explained that he exited the freeway, saw Officer Crosby, continued past exit, got back into the highway, took the next exit where the officer backed up and followed him. He didn't want to cross over traffic. This is called TMI. You know, clearly you're really trying to make excuses. He couldn't easily make a right turn. Finally, his counsel was like, just answer, just answer it directly. You know, and then it just sort of continued like that. He also testified that family members suggested places to visit and activities to do together, describing decisions within the group as collaborative rather than one-sided. And I think what the jury got out of that was that this was a group. This was a group. The defense then turned to one of the photographs introduced by the prosecution. It showed black material hanging from the trailer door. He explained that was part of the rubber door seal. He explained and admitted that it did not have great ventilation, but claimed there was enough airflow and it wasn't terrible. You know, and again, kind of reiterated everything, but the girls had phones. I could have pulled over and I'm like, but then then it was the prosecution's turn. Prosecutor focused on Sam's own opening statement. So this is good. This is great. I mean, even the juror we talked to after court today said that it was his opening statement to steal the deal for him. So the prosecutor asks if Sam stood by his opening statement and what he had told the jury earlier in the trial. Sam hesitated. He said he had probably worded it wrong. Sam's getting nervous. When asked whether he still stood by the claims he made, he again avoided giving a direct answer. Instead, he told the jury that he never wanted to hurt anyone and didn't even like harming animals or bugs. What a sweetheart. The prosecutor then started walking him through his own prior statements one by one. He reminded Sam that during opening statements, he had said, I shouldn't have done it. I shouldn't have done it. This time, however, Sam refused to agree with that statement. Next, he pointed out that Sam had previously described having the girls ride in the trailer as dangerous. That is true. He did. He did. At one point, he said, you know, it was probably dangerous. Sam claimed he couldn't remember saying that and seemed reluctant to agree. I heard it with my own ears. When asked whether he had described his own actions as dumb, he did admit that he acknowledged it wasn't smart. Prosecutor asked whether the girls had wanted to ride in the trailer. Sam answered they had begged to ride back there and he gave them permission, although he said that he did not mean he approved of it. Okay. The prosecutor followed up asking whether the girls were in his care. At this moment, he tries to like shift responsibility, said someone could argue that they were actually in their mother's care because the mothers were traveling in vehicles directly behind them. The prosecutor continued pressing him. He confirmed that Sam had been on the phone with the girls most of the trip. They were inside his trailer. He agreed. He established the girls had ridden in the trailer before. Sam acknowledged they had and clarified that those rides had taken place around their property in what he described as the backwoods and not on the interstate. And then the prosecutor confronted him with another statement he had made when he again referred to this situation as extremely dangerous. Sam claims he could not remember saying that. He does not remember saying those words. And the prosecutor then started talking about responsibility. He asked Sam to be a straightforward question. As a driver pulling the trailer, wasn't everything happening inside that trailer? Ultimately, your responsibility? And then he says, yeah. I'm like, okay. And then the prosecutor continued. He pointed out that he knew the girls had been riding in the trailer for hours during the trip. Sam agreed. But then tried to clarify what he meant. That once they reached Flagstaff, you know, he insisted by that time they'd entered the Flagstaff area, he just believed the girls had already climbed into the other vehicles like he had planned. He repeated his explanation that he saw one of the girls move to another vehicle and just assumed it had happened to everyone. But the prosecutor was not letting him move past this point. He reminded him the girls were, inside the trailer while driving on Interstate 40 through Flagstaff. Sam acknowledged they were, but again insisted that he didn't know that they were back there. It's just like it didn't stop. He walked through his version of timelines. It was painful because like even the jurors told us later, like, does it really matter where he drove, how he drove, why he drove? It was just like painful to kind of keep hearing it over and over and over and over again, just continuing how long it took and why he pulled over. The prosecutor asked if it was his responsibility to know who was riding inside the truck. Yes, he agreed it was his responsibility. It was his responsibility to know who was inside the trailer he was towing. Sam said it was. He asked if it was his responsibility on August 28th. Sam admitted said it was. So, then he asks, well, if you knew the trailer was unsafe, why did you let the girls ride back there in the first place? And Sam said he didn't think it was very dangerous. He said it was probably a little warm because there was no ventilation but I just trusted his driving ability. Really, he would just miraculously make sure they were safe and have, you know, just thousands of, he has thousands of accident-free miles on him and that he actually, no one needed to worry. No one needed to worry because he prayed. He prayed before driving and he asks God to bless him every time he drives. So, we're good, guys. He's got God on his side so the girls are safe. They talked about the items inside the trailer again. Remember how Sam said that they were for camping and picnic, picnicking, yet there was like a giant recliner and other furniture. So, then Sam then kind of backtracks and he's like, well, I don't know why those items were in there. Someone must have put that recliner inside the trailer. Prosecutor's like, okay, well, you know, you put a full-size recliner inside the trailer and you didn't notice? And Sam responded that the trailer stayed parked at the property in Colorado City. Nearly 40 people lived together, so the jury's like, okay, we get what this is. Nearly 40 people are living together. He said there were just too many people and too many things happening for him to keep track of everything that went into the trailer with 40 people living together. Again, tell me you're in a cult without telling me you're in a cult. 40 of you are living in a house? Okay. Prosecutor pointed out that he seemed to know about all the camping gear in the trailer, right? Somehow he didn't notice the recliner. Yeah, it just escaped his attention. And he said, well, what about your claim that you'd ridden in that trailer before? Where had he sat? He said that he believed he had been standing. He asked what it was like standing in a moving trailer. He said it wasn't a great idea, but it didn't happen on the highway, so it was okay. He said he just wanted to experience what it felt like riding in the trailer. And then the prosecutor, what I thought made a very important distinction. He suggested that whatever risks Sam was willing to take as an adult were very different from exposing young girls to those same risks. And Sam then responded that it depended on who the driver was. Yeah, he said that. If it was someone he trusted, he didn't see the same concern. In other words, he's like this godlike figure with this perfect driving record, so he doesn't have to worry about their safety if they're under his care. And then it led to the prosecutors, what I thought was one of their strongest questions. He asked if he cared so much about the girls, why would he allow them to be placed in a dangerous situation? And Sam replied, because they asked. Yeah. So then the prosecutor reminded him he was the adult. He's in charge. It had been his decision. So Sam was like, okay, yeah, you're right. Yeah, right. Okay. He confirmed that the calls occasionally dropped, but he agreed that he was on the phone call with them and would always be on the phone and he knew what was going on. The prosecutor ended his cross-examination with one final question. Had Bateman instructed the girls to not get out of the trailer when police stopped them. Sam answered that he probably had. His explanation was that he just didn't want them getting out while officers were present because he didn't want to create what he called a big scene and it certainly was a big scene and the prosecution concluded its cross-exam. After both sides finished questioning Bateman, I love that, after both sides, after Sam finished questioning Sam, the judge had questions, the jurors had questions of their own. Several questions, guys, a lot of questions. Several of them focused on one issue that had come up repeatedly. Why didn't Bateman stop sooner? One juror asked, why, why, after exiting the freeway, did you not simply pull over into a nearby gas station? Sam said that there weren't any gas stations between where he exited and stopped and that he just made a series of right turns before pulling into a parking lot? And another juror questioned Sam about his claim that he was a highly experienced driver. If children were riding inside the trailer, did he really believe they weren't being placed in an unsafe situation? Sam answered that he trusted his own driving abilities. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. He's so grandiose. He trusts his own driving abilities so much he personally did not think they were in significant danger. He explained he would naturally slow down if he saw anything hazardous. The jurors also picked up on something the prosecutor had highlighted. If Sam truly didn't know there was a recliner inside the trailer, where did he think that the girls were supposed to sit? I had the same question. I was like, thank you for asking that. If you really didn't know the recliner was in there, where the hell were these girls supposed to sit? And Sam admitted he hadn't really thought about that. He said he was just a busy person and assumed they would probably sit on chairs because chairs were normally kept inside the trailer. He's just so busy, so important. Another juror asked if he had inspected the trailer or secured any of the items inside before allowing the girls to ride there. He said he didn't think he did. And they wanted to know why the group needed to bring a trailer to a conference. That's my question too. Unless it wasn't for the girls riding the trailer, why bring this trailer? He said it was for extra storage, to carry luggage and a generator, gasoline and a portable toilet. But then they questioned, well, and then another juror question asked again why he didn't just pull over on the freeway once he learned the trailer door was open. He said he was overwhelmed. That's why he'd become panicked and rather than stopping, he chose to continue with what he believed was the first available exit. And then someone asked if he considered himself responsible for all the children traveling with them. He said, yeah, I do consider myself responsible. After the jurors finished, the prosecutor followed to ask a few follow-up questions. So he brought up again, this was so good. This was so good. Okay, the items in the trailer. Why are you carrying a generator? Why are you carrying gasoline? Why are you carrying a recliner? If you knew there was gasoline inside the fuel tank while children were riding the trailer? Then he says he had no idea because he had to check. So the prosecutor's like asked whether this sounds irresponsible. He's admitting yeah, it might. But then he questioned why the group even needed the generator at all. Especially, again, they had rented an Airbnb. What are you talking about? You use this trailer for camping. You got an Airbnb, bro. So then Sam explains that they like stopping in remote areas to eat lunch and use a generator during the stops. This is so good. And then, you know, then he just said, so you're going to just stop and picnic with all this stuff? I don't think you need a generator for a picnic. He was like, oh, that's a good point. You know, he wasn't sure. He just kept pushing him. It was so funny. He's like, yeah, I really don't know why I need all of this stuff. I really, I really, really don't. It was so funny as they kept pushing him. Why do you need this trailer? Why do you need all these items? And finally, he was like, I don't know why. We just take a generator wherever we go. I don't know why, though. We just bring this stuff. And then, finally, one question, final question. They asked, in Sam's view, if he hadn't done anything wrong, then why was he so paranoid in the first place? And this is, I love this. If he hadn't done anything wrong, why was he so paranoid in the first place? And Sam goes, well, this is an interesting question. And then he described the encounter at Silver Saddle, where a man approached asking where they were from and what they were doing. And Sam said that interaction is what made him start to get nervous. And then he started to tell the jury that he had researched Arizona law online. This is good. Okay. So he had researched Arizona law online beforehand. This is so good. Because he wanted to know whether it was legal for people to ride inside a trailer. Before he could answer, the prosecutor objected and the judge sustained the objection and struck that portion from the testimony, which I was kind of bummed about because I was like, oh, wait, hold up. You researched Arizona law online before because you wanted to know it was legal for people to ride inside a trailer. You are such a busy man. You can't even know what's in the trailer. But you researched law. So I was like, let's just pull this up. What does Arizona law say about riding in a trailer? We did a quick Google search. The first thing that popped up, it was so funny. You can't even put animals in the trailer. It was like, absolutely not. It was the funniest thing. I was like, why? They should have. They should have. It was crazy. So if you do a little Google search, you can ask, can you put people inside a trailer? They'll tell you no. You can't even put animals. No. Anyway, he then was allowed to briefly explain that based on his own understanding. He believed that Arizona law permitted people to ride in trailers. Don't know how he got that. It's about as clear as day. And then brought up this mystery man again. I was like, can the mystery man please stand up? I'd love to talk to that mystery man. The prosecutor just suggested the man may have simply been concerned about the girls, but he disagreed. He was like, no, no, no one's concerned about the girls. This mystery man, it was something else, man. That wrapped up testimony for the day. It was wild. At that moment, by the end of this day, I'll just say this, I've never seen jurors look angrier at a trial. The men looked like they wanted to jump out of their seats. There was one gentleman that stared at Sam more than they ever did the witnesses. You could just see he was angry. The women looked so concerned and so sad. Five men, five women. The judge recessed court on Thursday with that. Then we're for today. That was our word to today, guys. I hope everybody is cozy and having a good time. Before we jump into this, we're going to do a little intermission. I want to show you guys a photo. Today was really a fascinating morning because we essentially heard from Sam Bateman's witness, who was Brenda Barlow, who we mentioned at the beginning of this. Brenda Barlow was testifying. She had to testify via Zoom. I think because she's still on parole or probation. She can't see Sam, so she testified from Zoom. We'll get to that. Before we jump into today, just to give this a little I know troublemaker. This is the most unselfaware man on the planet. I see that Esther and Kathy have been in chat. We showed a little picture that they sent yesterday. It was so funny that Kathy put it up. People are realizing how Kathy has the most fun personality and is sarcastic and funny. can we pull up that? There we go. Okay. Oh, let me hide this. So, Esther sent me this yesterday. She's with her daughters and then below, though, this was a Snapchat that I believe Kathy did. At the very bottom, she writes, wearing pink even though we aren't there to piss off Sam. I love it. That was awesome. God bless you, ladies. So, I wanted to show that again. So, Sam was too. All right. So, we'll get in today. Thank you guys for also being here. This is a big night, but you do. You got it? We got the end. We'll probably have to improve the volume later. I kind of learned some secret things to do that takes like Google. But we'll play it as is and I'll fix them. So, we do have some sound from today. We got it while this has been going, including the moments that I kind of already mentioned. So, we'll play some of that. But again, we have to kind of improve the sound. I'll play with it and I'll put the whole thing up after. So, I'll have it up by tomorrow morning. So, all right. So, again, I kind of explained at the beginning who Brenda Barlow is. She essentially got out of prison, took an incredible plea deal, was charged with some horrific things, took a plea deal. So, it was a really good deal. Gets out and then goes back to Sam. Um, she appeared via video. Again, she's currently on parole and is still spiritually married to Sam Bateman. That is a distinction. Um, you can't marry more than one person, but she is spiritually married to Sam. Another thing to point out, she is actually the older sister of Dee. So, Dee, who testified the first day, one of the girls in the trailer, she happens to be the older sister of her, um, one of the minors who was involved in the August 2022 incidents. So, before questioning even started, Sam told her, I realize it takes a huge amount of courage to be here. He started by asking about the first traffic stop from August 14th. Um, Brenda testified she genuinely had good memory. She remembered the details of that day. She remembered that everything was strapped securely. She, she couldn't specifically remember whether it had been strapped down that particular day. Despite her good memory, she couldn't remember. Um, but she walked the jury through the trip. Uh, they gathered at what is called the greenhouse before making another stop at the blue house. And now we've got a greenhouse and a blue house. It's getting even more interesting, more inside baseball. The jury's like, okay, blue house, green house. They were going riding on ATVs. Brenda said she was actually sitting on the backseat of the driver's side. And then, um, she also had this life 360 tracking app open on her phone, but she said tracks both locations, uh, vehicles, location, and speed. This life 360 app is interesting. According to Brenda, the highest speed she saw during the drive was around 62 to 63 miles per hour, which actually sounds absolutely frightening thinking of a girl sitting on an ATV. Um, they're eventually pulled over. She describes the interaction as tense. There's a lot of attention, a lot of tension in the air. The officer seems rough. Well, yeah, the girls have to like get back in the car. Um, she says though that the trailer was securely attached to the Yukon XL and every time they hauled the motorbikes, they were strapped down. One point, Sam clearly wanted the jury to hear involve the girl's seatbelts. Like, I don't think it really matters, but, but Brenda testified that the girls did not remove their seatbelts until the officer had already stopped them and instructed them to get out of the side-by-side or the ATV. They were still buckled while the vehicle was moving. And then we get to August 28th with Brenda. Oh, and let me just describe Brenda because actually this is important. I looked up at Brenda and I saw a woman who I thought was wearing, um, traditional FLDS dress. Um, you could only see this top, which I also thought was interesting. I talked to Dr. Christine about it after and she said, no, no, no, that wasn't an FLDS dress because it had a collar. Wait, because it had or didn't have a collar. Esther or Kathy, if you're in here, I don't know if it does have a collar or didn't. she said it was just a very conservative dress. So if anybody has any, um, if any of our FLDS friends or ex-FLDS friends are in this chat, if you could help us understand what Brenda was wearing or what is traditional or what isn't, that would be helpful. Thank you. Um, and pin anything or you see. Oh, you have a photo of her. Okay, great. There you go. There she is. It didn't have a collar then. Um, is that it? It didn't have a collar. Okay. Because it didn't have a collar. Thank you, Angela and Esther. Okay. Right. So traditional FLDS dress is, is a collar. So it was just very conservative and, and right, her hair is also in a different fashion and just pulled back tightly. But this is, there you go, this is Brenda. Um, so Brenda tells the jury that this was supposed to be a surprise trip. It was organized by Sam to attend a Grant Cardone event. She said everyone was excited. They packed their belongings. They traveled in two trucks, a van and the enclosed box trailer carrying overflow supplies. She loaded the items into the trailer before they left. So I actually thought and tell Brenda that maybe these items were just randomly in the trailer, like just sitting in like a driveway. But no, she's like, no, she loaded it all into the trailer. And then Brenda tells the jury that three or four of the girls had asked Sam if they could ride inside the trailer. And Sam initially told them he didn't want anyone riding back there. Same, same old, same old. But before she could finish that answer, the prosecutor objected on hearsay grounds. The attorneys all approached the bench. The white noise went on as they had a little sidebar and that portion of her testimony was effectively cut off. That was the conclusion of that. She continued describing the trip. She said that the group stopped a couple of times along the way. One stop at Wendy's. They noticed this man. Brenda noticed the man. And then the vehicles got back on the road. She received a phone call telling her that Sam had been pulled over. It was like very dramatic, I guess. They instructed the rest of the caravan to not come to the traffic stop. Man, no wonder they're all in touch. They're just like, Roger, don't. I was like, I'm picturing Moroni's earpiece on all of them with their phones and they're like, it's like, you know, traffic control. Pulled over. Do not come to traffic stop. Keep going. They're like, Roger. And Sam's what? Let's see. Oh, did you just put that up again? Yeah. By the way, Ivana Tingle is asking, Grant Cardone, the Scientologist? Sure. Go ahead. I've been [02:37:58] Speaker ?: researching it. [02:37:59] Speaker 1: You've been researching Grant? Hi. [02:38:04] Speaker 4: Hi. Hold on. I've been researching this. Turn your audio off. There we go. Okay. There we go. I've been researching this Grant Cardone thing because somebody was like, I don't think he ever had a conference there that day. And so I did research on it today. And from what I was learning, there was like a Phoenix conference earlier in the year, but there wasn't one that week. So I don't know that there even was a conference. I think he probably told them they were going to one and it wasn't one. I don't know for sure. Yeah. I mean, probably to do whatever he wanted to do, but like, let me just take him off the screen. Sorry. That's weird. I did not find a conference from that weekend looking into Grant Cardone. [02:39:05] Speaker 1: So then in other words, they were just getting themselves an Airbnb. [02:39:09] Speaker 4: Yeah. [02:39:11] Speaker 1: Wow. [02:39:12] Speaker 4: I mean, I would assume they didn't know that, right? Like, he wasn't telling, clearly he wasn't telling them things. They weren't talking to each other. But when I've done the research, I have not found one from that weekend. I'm going to keep looking, but so far there is not one from that weekend. [02:39:29] Speaker 1: That's actually even more fascinating. And thank you, Sarah Freethinker. Don't forget to like this stream. It is true. It does help us when you like and subscribe to things that are free to do and give us a lot of support. So thank you. Jesse's asking, I wonder if Dr. Christine has any ideas. Yeah, I think she, I think Dr. Christine thinks it was to do, to harm the children in the Airbnb. I think that's what Dr. Christine thinks. I've talked to her about it. So, yeah. Who is Grant Cardone? Okay, Grayson, I'm just going to quote what Grayson said. A business and real estate guy who has Donald Trump come and speak at a lot of his things. And then Ivana is asking if it's, is he a Scientologist? Will you just Google that one real quick? And she thinks he is. So it's an interesting combination of things. A financial guy, right, a real estate dude. So it just goes that's diabolical. Yeah, I know. [02:40:55] Speaker 4: He is a practicing Scientologist, a motivational speaker, and a real estate mogul according to [02:41:02] Speaker 1: Google. Scientology channels and Cardone is very well known as a Scientologist. That makes it even more interesting. And so not only is that a strange choice, it's even stranger that you're saying that he wasn't even speaking. Oh, Esther. Tolga, that's Dr. Christine's husband. Esther is saying Tolga said that Sam was obsessed with Grant Cardone's young daughter. Wait, he said the daughter belonged to him? that just jogged Grayson's memory. She goes, oh yeah, she said the daughter belonged to him. Wow. Well, [02:41:56] Speaker ?: wow. [02:41:57] Speaker 1: His daughters [02:42:01] Speaker ?: are 14 and 17. [02:42:04] Speaker 1: His daughters are today or? His daughters today are 14 and 17. So they would have been 10 and 13. Dang. Okay, well, that's a rabbit hole. We'll keep going because we're going to go on to Brenda still. Brenda did not go the way. I'll just say that Sam thought it was going to go. You could tell she was really nervous. All right. Wow. So anyway, we're back to the vision I have of them saying like, mayday, mayday, do not come to traffic stop. You know, head to the mountains, wait for further instruction, Roger. And then Brenda later received another phone call telling her to come and pick up her sister. And again, her sister is D. And again, the prosecutor objected because she was repeating what somebody else had told her over the phone. The judge instructed the jury to disregard that statement. Brenda then explained that after waiting in the mountains for a while, she eventually drove to the traffic stop, picked up her sister, and then returned to the mountains with the rest of the group while they tried to figure out what to do next. Because, yeah, because Sam Bateman was arrested, Sammy boy. She testified that when she arrived, she saw several officers surrounding the scene, a crowd of bystanders nearby, and Sam in handcuffs. And then the prosecutor objected to that as well. The judge sustained the objection. Sam then spent quite a bit of time asking Brenda about the trailer itself. I was like, oh my gosh. She described it, and it backfired, man. I think he wanted Brenda to be like, this thing was pristine, it was clean, it was like a five-star hotel. And instead, she was like, dude, it's an older trailer. It's sturdy, but it's old. Yeah, the right door was slightly bent. You had to be careful to fully engage both latches when closing it. If only the bottom latch was secured, the top of the door could flap a little while driving. You could see Sam was just like getting so mad at her honesty. And I think she was actually really nervous to be answering. I sensed that as I watched her on the screen. She said, yeah, if someone failed to latch both, the door could eventually work itself open, especially on rough roads. she laid it down. The defense's testimony was like, yikes. It was pretty dangerous. But then she kept trying to minimize the danger. You could tell she was trying to kind of, you could tell, I felt she seemed nervous around Sam. She wanted to do this right. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Gray. [02:45:08] Speaker ?: Okay, [02:45:12] Speaker 4: I have thoughts on this. I think it was definitely course of control. She was trying to figure out the right things to say. But I kept thinking she is the only woman testifying in this. If he is convicted, she's going to be the one he blames. Because it can never be his fault. It's got to be somebody else's fault. So I think she was just trying to say the right things, but it's never going to be good enough. And I don't know. I did file for some jail calls. So we'll see if I get a call that is from tonight. Because I think he's probably going to be pretty angry on the phone calls. [02:45:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, we did file for jail calls and we've made some headway too. It will be really interesting. Yeah. Hello, Tolga and Christine. So when Sam asked whether Brenda considered the partially latched door dangerous, Brenda said that depended on how someone defined dangerous. That was some good deflection there. I've seen that happen in court. You know, how do I not answer yes to this? Well, it depends. Your definition of dangerous is different than mine. In her opinion, it might stay closed the entire trip. And really, how dangerous could a door be that may or may not open on the freeway with three girls inside? It just depends on your definition of danger. It might eventually come loose, Brenda explained, but, you know, it's more as a possibility than something she believed was certain could happen. It was just, you know, 50-50 chance the door could swing open with three girls inside while going 75 on the freeway. I mean, you define dangerous. What is it to you? When Sam asked about the ventilation in the trailer, Brenda said she didn't remember. I'm like, that's a good one. I've seen that before with witnesses. Thinking about, well, I won't say who I'm thinking about. Anyway, he also tried asking whether Brenda believed that he had knowingly or intentionally placed anyone in danger. And the prosecutor immediately objected because that question asked her to speculate, right, about Sam's state of mind and the judge sustained the objection. So during cross-exam, cross-exam happens, the prosecutor begins reinforcing several points that had come up throughout the trial. Again, rinse and repeat, but now we have a defense witness on the stand, so let's nail this down. Brenda agrees that Sam was the driver during the August 14th trip. She agrees he was an experienced driver. She testifies that he usually drove on family trips, decided where they were going, planned the outings, and generally knew who would be attending. And when asked whether Sam was the leader of the family, Brenda answered yes. And I love it too. It was again, it was leader. It wasn't just like in charge. It wasn't like it was the leader of the family and family came up. Leader of the family. We know that these young girls do not share his last name, that they aren't his biological children, but this is a leader of a family. I think the jury pretty much knows what this is. The prosecutor then really got into the Life 360 app. Brenda claims that she used this app on her phone, right? Brenda explains that the app tracks both the person's location and vehicle speed and that the family commonly used it during trips. The binoculars weren't enough in the mid console to spy on people. He was like, everybody's got to have an app. Everybody's got to have an earpiece. Everybody's got to have a phone on mute. I got to have my binoculars and and now everybody needs this app on their phones so that, you know, we could just make sure I know where everyone is times five. Yeah. Yeah. And sing kumbaya and then we need a generator. So she confirmed that Sam had the app on his phone and used it and however when the prosecutor tried to suggest Sam could have been monitoring everyone's locations through the app during these specific trips, Brenda was like, well, I can't say for sure because she wasn't looking at her phone. I was like, oh, that was good. You know, so you can't say you weren't looking at her phone so you don't know if Sam was monitoring even though this is what the apps were for and you're like, okay. Sam made several objections during this for speculation. It was kind of, you know, I hadn't seen Sam make an objection yet. I think he kind of felt proud of this moment, Sammy boy. He was like objection and some of them were sustained by the judge because it would require Brenda to know what Sam had been doing on his phone. And I think that when he got his first sustained after he was like objection and the judge sustained, I think he grew like a couple of inches. He was like, okay. He's like, I did that. You know, it's proud of him. But I think what the state was trying to show was that if Sam used the Life360 app, he would have known where the girls were. So this, I mean, we already know he knows where the girls are because we've heard him contradict himself 50 times by now. But just one more thing to reinforce, he knows where the girls are. The dude's tracking them. He knows where they are and what time and why they're there. The prosecutor also asked whether Sam had a responsibility to make sure the girls were riding at the side-by-side were safe and wearing seatbelts. And then Brenda answered that everyone shared that responsibility. But then she also described those three girls. This was great. This is Brenda's attempt at victim-blaming. And remember, just throw this in too, Brenda's attempt at victim-blaming while one of them is her own sister, while Dee is her own sister. So this is the problem with the girls. They're very outgoing. These three girls, they're very outgoing, and they're willing to take risks because of just their outgoing nature. They haven't been, I guess, they haven't been tamed enough. They're outgoing and perhaps have a little bit of extroversion, a little pep to them. The prosecutor followed by asking if Sam was still their leader, and Brenda agreed again that yes, he led the family. Although she kept also at the same time avoiding that he was personally responsible for every decision. Okay. Then the questioning goes back to this Grant Cardone trip, which is weird. We've already gone down that rabbit hole. Everybody else keep going down. Let's learn about this. Was there a conference there that week or not? This Grant Cardone trip, Brenda agreed it was Sam's surprise idea, and she said again that he's the leader of the family, and the group traveled in two trucks, a van, and the enclosed trailer. The prosecutor then asked one of the more important questions of her testimony. Even if the girls wanted to ride inside the trailer, could Sam have simply said no? What an idea. Brenda admitted that yes, he could have. I don't think that that answer made Sam very happy. I did look over at him. This testimony was not going the way Sam wanted it to. Brenda quickly added, though, that she remembered Sam initially telling them no, but said he wasn't someone to force people to do things and believe they made their own choices. We know that's not true. The prosecutor also established that there were opportunities to stop and inspect the trailer during the drive. Brenda admitted the trailer had a slight bend in the doorframe that made latching more difficult. She also agreed that because of that issue, it was so important for the driver to make sure the door was properly secured before traveling. Throwing Sam under the bus in that moment. She's like, yeah, it's a problem, and it is so important for the driver, a.k.a. Sam, a.k.a. leader of the family, a.k.a. decision maker, to make sure the door is properly secured before traveling, and he didn't do that. So near the end of the cross examination, the prosecutor brought up that Brenda had a prior felony conviction, which she acknowledged. I did not see that coming. Just at the end, it was just like, and ma'am, do you have a prior felony conviction? And she acknowledged that she did. On redirect, though, Sam was back up, now growing a couple of inches after the judge sustained a couple of his objections, feeling a little bit more confident, and he goes back to this Life360 app. Brenda explained while the app was generally accurate, it was not perfect because people could lose service or turn it off. And then when Sam asked whether she remembered him constantly checking everyone's locations, she said no, that from her perspective, people, this is good, this is good. So he's trying to be like, well, was I always checking their locations? And so she says, no, like that's probably what Sam wanted to hear, but there's always a but, this is so good. He wasn't checking the app because guys, from Brenda's perspective, people just naturally wanted to be close to Sam anyway. So, thus, she didn't remember him carefully monitoring everyone through the app because they were just with him. They just globbed and they just, he was this magnet, Chris is rolling her eyes. He was this magnet that just, I mean, he didn't even need an app because everybody just wanted to be around him all the time. And that's why he wasn't always checking the app. Right. Sam then went back to August 14th asking Brenda to clarify about the seatbelts, which was really, at this time, honestly, like a snooze fest for me. I was like, rinse and repeat. I feel like the jury felt that too. And that's kind of where it concluded. And then the jury had several questions for Brenda. Love these jury questions. Brenda said she hadn't personally loaded most of the trailer's contents, although she remembered two recliners being inside. She admitted that she didn't know whether the loose items had like moved around during the trip. Jurors also asked why the same three girls were riding in the back during both incidents. Great question. Intuitive jurors. They are thinking. They're realizing. Brenda responded that they were just, again, simply outgoing. They were just outgoing. That was kind of the problem with these girls. They just needed to be broken in a little bit more, I guess. So they needed to ride in a trailer. That's honestly what I thought. When she kept saying they were outgoing, I kept thinking that like he wanted to break them. Like they needed to be more submissive. That's what I kept thinking. But, you know, they were simply outgoing. They were adventurous. And they were more willing than others to take risks. So that's why they were put into dangerous, abusive situations. Because they were outgoing. And then, of course, obviously, Brenda's what she's trying to do is blame the victims. And when asked whether Sam had actually allowed them to ride in the trailer, she said she didn't remember. One juror asked whether she personally would ride inside that trailer. And her answer was interesting. She said no. Mostly because she gets carsick without cool air. Yeah. She wouldn't ride in it. Then she added that if it had been comfortable, then maybe she would have. So that was like such a moment. So in other words, not only does she get carsick because it's hot, it's also not comfortable. And that's why she wouldn't ride in it. After lunch, the state called their final witness, Detective Joseph Anderson. He returned as a rebuttal witness after Sam finished presenting his case. So he was back on the stand. Prosecution pulled up a series of maps. Anderson walked the jury through the exact route that Sam drove that day, which a juror later today said that didn't even matter to him because like, even if the trailer to this juror was parked in the parking lot, that was enough for him. If he, if he shut the door of this trailer with the girls inside. But, um, Anderson pointed out the county line and then kind of focused again on the biggest issue in this case. And it was if Sam knew there was a problem with the trailer, where could he have stopped safely? And according to Anderson, there were plenty of options for Sam to stop once he learned that it wasn't latched. He brought up starting at Silver Saddle Center. He pointed out one location after another where Sam could have pulled over. There were residential streets, a historical site parking lot, Flagstaff Mall, neighborhoods, businesses, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, the, the opportunities were endless for him to pull over and fix the door for the, for the girls. Um, the next map followed the route onto Country Club Drive. There was a service station right there. He could have, um, gone three miles farther down the road. It was just like, and they actually just went on and on and on all the different exit ramps, all the different shoulders, the Butler and Huntington areas, um, where they finally made contact. There's just so many places. Well, during cross exam, Sam, uh, then tried to focus back on the prosecution's theory of when the danger actually began. Yeah. This is what he was like. I know what to do. Sam was like, I got this guys cross exam. He's grown a couple inches from his objections. Be sustained. He's like, I got this. I know what I need to focus on. He's like, let's just decide when the danger actually began here. Um, acknowledging there's danger, but, but when did it begin? So Sam asked Anderson if the state believed the dangerous situation started after the stop near Wendy's when the trailer door wasn't properly secured. Anderson's like, yeah, no, that's not when the danger started. He testified that in his opinion, the dangerous situation began the moment the trip started because people were riding inside the enclosed trailer. Sam was like, hmm, interesting. He also pointed out that regardless of speed, the trailer's condition itself was what he considered dangerous. Sam then asked Anderson how far it was from the interstate exit to where he eventually stopped. Anderson estimated it was about a half a mile. So then on redirect, prosecutors get back up, want to make one thing clear, and they asked whether the danger depended on speed alone. Anderson said no. He explained that the biggest concern wasn't how fast the truck was traveling, whether it was 55, whether it was 75. It was the fact that people were just inside an enclosed cargo trailer, like that, with the door shut. And then you throw in that there's loose objects, then you throw in that he's driving, then you throw out that these loose objects could become projectiles during any collision. He reminded jurors that roadways are inherently dangerous because you can't control what other drivers are doing. Even if the speed limit is posted, there is no guarantee everyone else is following it. In his opinion, regardless of speed, transporting people this way is extremely dangerous. Several of the jurors had more questions. I love these jurors so much. One juror wanted to know exactly where the Wendy's stop was located. He explained it was Highway 89, making it one of the easiest landmarks along the route. Another juror asked where roadside assistant worker Gary Crosby first spotted the truck. I noticed the fingers sticking out. Anderson explained that Crosby first saw the truck on Country Club Drive, followed it onto Interstate 40 westbound, confirmed it matched the attempt to locate broadcast, and then after the truck eventually stopped, he observed the fingers sticking out near the trailer door. The jury also wanted clarification on whether Sam had actually been pulled over by law enforcement or had stopped in the zone. Anderson explained that Sam voluntarily pulled into the parking lot. Crosby, though, maintained visual contact with the truck until law enforcement arrived. And then once officers got there, they activated their emergency lights, making it clear Sam was no longer free to just leave. The state did have one final follow-up question. They wanted Anderson to confirm that while Crosby was following Sam, he watched him drive past multiple safe places where he could have stopped sooner, and Anderson confirmed absolutely yes. The prosecution then displayed one more time the map. They specifically addressed Sam's claims that he had nowhere to safely pull over without crossing traffic, and using the map, Anderson pointed out several locations where Sam could have made nothing more than a simple right turn into a parking lot or business without ever having to cross traffic. Sam then was like, I know what to do now. Then he questioned him about the amount of traffic in those parking lots, suggesting he would have stopped earlier if it looked safe, which I just want to pause. Why would a crowded parking spot not feel safe to Sam? Maybe because he knew what he was doing was bad. Because a parking lot to shut a door, to make sure little girls don't fall out, you know, what is he so afraid of, of a busy parking lot? Just another tell, another tell. Anderson responded that if Sam had made a legal right turn into one of those businesses, he would have controlled the lane of traffic, other vehicles would have yielded, it had been just fine, and everything would have been okay. He explained the very first report came in from the Silver Saddle area, the witness again reported seeing the girls climbing out of the trailer while people appeared upset, the truck left the area, and then at that point, there were reports of seeing fingers sticking out of a trailer, and that information came later after Gary Crosby located the truck and began following it. Detective Anderson was then excused from the stand, both sides had officially finished presenting evidence, and the judge, so in other words, the defense, you know, rested, the prosecution rested, so what's next? Judge giving jury instructions before closing arguments. What? Yes, news fest, I know, that's how I felt. There have been times where I've told everybody what's happened with jury instructions, we're skipping that. I applaud anyone in chat that really wants to know about jury selections because I know that they are very interesting to many people. We, yeah, snooze fest, I'm good, I'm good without jury instructions, but those happened, just know they happened and they did a good job, it was great, it was well delivered. The prosecutor, his opening, he opened his closing statements with a vivid image, it was the same image he started with his opening statements, he told the jury to pitch her fingers gripping the very top of a trailer door, desperately trying to keep it from flying open as the truck sped down the highway. That's what witnesses saw on Flagstaff Road that day, before anyone even started talking about the law, he wanted the jury to think about that image. He then walked them through what was actually inside the trailer. This wasn't some camper or a passenger trailer, it was built for hauling cargo, not people, not animals. There were no seats, there were no seat belts, no airbags, no ventilation, no air conditioning, no lights, just a metal box getting hotter by the minute on a day that was already in the upper 70s to low 80s. The trailer was packed with loose items that could become so dangerous every time that truck hit a bump or made a turn. There were water jugs strapped together with bungee cords, a stroller, folding chairs, camping gear, a generator, a fuel tank, a metal shovel, a makeshift infamous toilet hidden behind the infamous curtains, you name it. Nothing was properly secured. But according to the prosecutor, the most important thing inside that trailer wasn't any of those objects, it was three little girls, D, G, and S. He reminded the jury that these girls spent roughly three hours riding inside those conditions while Sam Bateman rode comfortably in the pickup truck pulling the trailer. The prosecutor also pushed back on the idea that this case was only about what happened in Flagstaff. Yes, that's where D was eventually seen holding the trailer door shut, sure, with her hands. But he argued this wasn't just about the final few miles of the trip. The entire drive mattered from the moment they left Colorado City until they reached Coconino County. In his view, every decision along that route belonged to one person, Sam Bateman, Sammy, Sammy boy, Sam, Sam, whatever you want to call him. He likes to be called Samuel. We're not calling him Samuel. Sammy, Sam, Sam Bateman. He said this was Sam's plan from the beginning. It was a surprise trip. He organized it. He decided who rode, where, drove the truck himself, and was ultimately responsible for everything that happened. And as the prosecutor told it, Sam had chance after chance to stop once things started going wrong. Instead, he kept driving because he did not want to get caught by police. Even after the truck finally stopped, the prosecutor said Bateman did not immediately get the girls out of the trailer and into safety, right? He just left him there. He's like, they're good. They're good. The doors flash. They can't get out. You know, just keep him there. Instead, he kept them hidden inside. And then he reminded the jurors just how young these girls were. D was only 14. G was 12. S was just 11 years old. And according to the prosecutors, this wasn't even the first warning Bateman had received. We saw from someone that previously confronted him about transporting these three same girls in an unsafe way while they were riding on an ATV near Colorado City. And as Brenda pointed out, just, you know, because they're outgoing. They, you know, his point was that Sam, though, knew better. He'd already been warned. And he did it again anyway. And from there, prosecutor then went away from the facts of the case for a moment and talked directly about the jury's job. So he reminds them that closing arguments are not evidence. Their job wasn't to decide the case based on emotion or sympathy. It was to rely on testimony, the exhibits, and the own memories, their own memories of everything they had heard during trial. Next came one of the biggest themes of his closing argument, common sense. He told jurors they didn't need to think like lawyers. They didn't need just some legal special mindset. Just use the same judgment they use every day because common sense tells you why cars have seatbelts and airbags. Common sense tells you that people aren't supposed to ride inside cargo trailers, especially little girls. And common sense tells you that putting children inside a hot enclosed trailer where they can't get out for hours probably isn't safe. From there, he broke down the child abuse charges. He explained that the state had to prove Sam, Sammy boy, had care for custody of the girls, not in the sense of being their legal parent, but simply that he was the one in control. According to the prosecutor, that point wasn't really in dispute. Bateman, Sam Bateman, Sammy boy, planned the trip, drove the truck, decided where everyone rode, and even described himself during trial as an experienced driver whose responsibility was to know exactly who and what was inside his truck and trailer. The girls also testified that Sam knew they were riding in the trailer because he was the one who allowed it. The prosecutor argued that Sam himself essentially admitted he knew they were back there. His only disagreement was over when it became dangerous. Sam claimed the real problem didn't begin until the trailer door started coming loose near Flagstaff. Like, the prosecutor strongly disagreed. Yeah, and I think so do all of us. He argued that danger existed from the very beginning of the trip, not just during those final moments. Finally, he explained another important point about jury deliberations. He told jurors they all had to agree on the verdict, but they didn't necessarily have to agree on every single reason that Sam was guilty. Some jurors might focus on the entire journey, right? While other jurors might believe the danger became especially severe during the Flagstaff portion. But either way, he argued the evidence showed that Sam knew those girls were inside that trailer the whole time. The prosecutor then turned to one of the biggest questions in the case. Did Sam actually know those girls were in the trailer? His answer was that there was no question about it. And throughout the trial, the jury heard about phone calls happening back and forth during the drive whenever they had cell service. According to the prosecutor, Sam wasn't just towing a trailer full of people without realizing it. Not only was he hauling them in a cargo trailer, he was communicating with them for much of the trip. He was also reminded the jury. This wasn't some spontaneous decision. The trip was Sam's idea. It was supposed to be some surprise outing to hear some motivational speaker, Grant Cardone, who we've now wondered if that was even a conference happening. Sam planned it, organized it, and drove the truck, and everyone who testified described him as the person in charge, the leader, the guy in charge of the group, or the family group. The prosecutor kept coming back to that point. Every witness painted the same picture. Sam was the leader. What he said went. If anyone made the decisions, it was Sam. That meant he also decided who wrote in the trailer. Whether he personally told the girls to get inside, or simply gave them permission, it really doesn't matter. The prosecutor argued the result was the same. Those children were back there because some adult named Sam allowed it, and the prosecutor reminded jurors that Sam admitted several of these points himself. And on the witness stand, he repeatedly described in the self as the person responsible. He called himself the leader. Remember that? Yeah, he did. He was really special. He was a special guy. He even said he was in charge. He even asked himself whether or not he was a prophet. Poor guy got that. It was an objected, but you know, you know, yeah, he's the leader here, a prophet. The prosecutor basically told the jury, you don't have to take my word for it. Listen to what the defendant said. And yeah, I agree. Then he appealed to something he'd been talking about throughout his closing. Common sense. If you're driving a truck and pulling a trailer, especially one carrying children, you should know who's back there. And if you're talking to them on the phone during the drive, there's no way you can even argue. You weren't aware. They were inside. The prosecutor argued Sam made one choice very clear that day. He protected himself by riding comfortably inside the pickup truck next to his binoculars and and next to the women and girls who he said should sit next to him. The girls did not get that same protection in the back of the trailer. The prosecutor also addressed one of Sam's explanations. Sam testified that the girls asked if they could ride in the trailer and he gave them permission. The prosecutor's response was blunt. This isn't a defense. These were not adults making their own decisions. They were children. And as the adult in charge, the leader, the prophet, Sam was responsible for saying no. And instead, according to the prosecutor, he actually tried to normalize it. Sam testified they travel this way all the time. He's like, oh, this isn't the only time I've done it. I do this all the time. He even described the previous trip where he himself stood inside a moving trailer as an adult just to see what it would feel like. The prosecutor essentially told the jury, think about what he's asking you to believe. Just because something happened before it doesn't suddenly make it safe, and from there, he tied everything back to the legal requirement that Bateman acted knowingly or even intentionally. He argued this wasn't an accident. Sam didn't accidentally put the children inside a trailer because they were outgoing. He intentionally gave them permission to ride there, and according to the prosecutor, that alone satisfies the requirement that his actions were deliberate. And then, something else that probably caught the jury's attention during testimony, Sam himself admitted it was dumb. You think? He admitted it was dangerous. You think? The prosecutor emphasized those weren't words investigators put in his mouth. They were Sam's own descriptions of what happened. He noted that the girls, now looking back at the experience, understood just how dangerous it really was. They testified to that. The prosecutor argued they simply didn't have the maturity at the time to recognize the risks they were being exposed to. They probably, honestly, just wanted to be back there so they didn't have to be next to him. But he started walking the jurors through what those risks actually were. Every bump in the road, every sudden stop, every sharp turn, without seatbelts or anything securing them, the girls and all the loose equipment inside that trailer could be thrown around. According to the prosecutor, even a relatively minor crash could have turned catastrophic. And then he asked the jury to think about something else. Sam may have considered himself an experienced driver, but he wasn't the only one driving on the road. What if another vehicle hit him? What if a semi-truck rear-ended the trailer? I can picture Sam at this moment going, but I prayed. I prayed before I went. But yeah, the same thing crossed my mind too. He's not the only driver on the road, especially during the stretch where everyone knew the trailer doors were not even going to stay latched. The prosecutor argued Sam couldn't control any of those outside dangers, yet he still chose to keep driving. He reminded the jurors about the trailer itself. The frame was bent. The door didn't latch reliably. Even Brenda testified that you basically had to just jiggle everything into exactly the right position for the latch to work. The prosecutor's point, if the doors only stay shut when everything is lined up perfectly, that is not a secure trailer. And on this trip, everything clearly was not lined up perfectly because Dee ended up physically holding the door closed with her own hands. That's when an already dangerous situation became dramatically worse. And instead of pulling over, what did Sammy Sam do? He kept driving through Flagstaff. He passed multiple places, gas stations, restaurants, truck stops, getting on to Interstate 40 where traffic was moving around 65 miles per hour, often faster, and he continued driving. Every mile he stayed on that road increased the danger. And in his view, the reason Sam didn't stop was because he was trying to avoid police because he knew he was doing something wrong. And then the prosecutor returned to the trailer itself. It wasn't designed for people. It wasn't even suitable for transporting livestock. It was hard metal, no padding, loose camping gear, a gasoline tank, a generator, the infamous toilet. The girls had no way to get out themselves if something went wrong. They were essentially in there as prisoners. Something as simple as a fire, an explosion involving the gasoline, the children would have been trapped. Any one of these dangers could be enough on his own. But stacked together, the hot temperatures, no seatbelts, objects, broken trail doors, highway speeds, children trapped inside, this was frightening, and Sam put these girls in danger. He even reminded the jury that Brenda herself said she got carsick because she couldn't ride in that trailer. If the adults understood this wasn't safe, why would they allow these young girls in there instead? He wrapped up this section by bringing jurors back to ordinary life and common sense one more time. Imagine, he said, sitting inside a sealed cargo trailer on a sunny afternoon with no windows, no airflow, no way to cool it down, and then imagine doing it for more than three hours while traveling over narrow two-lane highways, bumps in the road, and eventually busy interstate traffic. No matter how you look at it, it wasn't just uncomfortable, this was dangerous. He wrapped up his closing arguments and tied this entire case together. He knew that the girls' memories weren't all identical. After all, they were children recalling something that happened years earlier. Small differences, they're expected. But one thing never changed, and he pointed to one detail from D's testimony that he considered especially significant. She testified that during the trip, Sam actually had the girls climb out of the trailer for a moment so he could use the makeshift toilet inside. And afterward, according to D, he had the girls get right back into the trailer. It was just another example of Sam knowing the girls were inside and just another safety issue. D testified she didn't remember that makeshift toilet ever being emptied before everyone climbed back in. Prosecutors suggested the jury should consider that as yet another unhealthy condition inside the trailer, and then return to Bateman's actions once they reached the Flagstaff area. Sam's own testimony. Paranoia. Continuing to drive instead of pulling over. All the places he stopped or didn't stop. All the places he passed. All of them opportunities where he could have stopped and closed the door. He chose not to use them. He truly believed that the situation had become dangerous if he believed that. He would have stopped. But he was more concerned, I think, about police and getting caught. He then had the girls hide behind a curtain, surrounded in the makeshift bathroom. This was not someone trying to protect children. He was trying to attempt to avoid getting caught. There weren't even enough seatbelts for everyone. That's why the girls had to even go into the trailer. He reminded something, the jurors about something important, the law. The state actually didn't have to prove the girls were likely to die or suffer a serious injury. All they had to prove was that their health was in danger. So, he reminded them the girls were 11, 12, and 14. And he walked through Sam's role on everything. He was the driver. He planned the trip. He was in charge. He was the leader. And then he actually went back to, according to the prosecutor, every major decision traced back to Sam and then responded to testimony, suggesting the girls were adventurous and liked taking risks. The prosecutor dismissed that argument completely. These were children and Sam was the adult. Even if the girls wanted to ride in the trailer, he was the one responsible for saying no. He authorized it. And again, he reminded them that he himself called the trip dangerous. Yeah. It was a good closing argument. And it was powerful. And talked about Dee keeping that door shut. I also think that we have Sam's, so I want to tell you about Sam's testimony. Um, but I'm wondering how much you think we should play. We did get some footage. The footage might need some sound improvement, which I can do later. Um, do you know what you want to play? So Sam began his closing by acknowledging the unusual position he was in, telling the jury that he had never represented himself in a trial before. I was like, well, this was your choice, buddy. And then he asked them again to be patient with him as he explained his perspective in his own words. And then he turned to a visual aid pulling up a map. It was just like, okay, he's going to go through this again. Um, explained where he just felt he could not pull over. Um, it was actually kind of just like exhausting. He then kind of like framed this entire case around one central idea, which was intent. He repeatedly told the jury that he never intended to harm anyone. It was so gross. When he started talking about this, he, he said he loved the girls very, very dearly. Also, it was so gross to hear him call them girls. He did say girls. I love those girls very, very dearly. I was like, shut up. He insisted. This was, this was, I wrote this down and circled it in my notebook. He insisted he would rather die than, than, than, than harm them. And it's his view. The prosecution just could not prove what they needed to prove because he never intentionally endangered the children. Um, yeah. What part do you want to play? You've labeled? Do, should we just start, should we just, should we watch it instead of, um, me tell it all? Let's watch it together. I mean, let's watch Sam Bateman, Sam Bateman himself. And I do want to hear about all the good nicknames you guys have maybe thought of for Sam's little pet name since he only likes to be called Samuel and called all of his victims by pet names. Let's think of some good ones for Sammy boy. Mm-hmm. [03:23:28] Speaker 3: So I just want to remind us to, um, please judge me on the facts and the evidence in this case. Um, there's just evidence that I will and may intentionally harm these people because I didn't harm them and I didn't even have a desire to harm them. And in my mind, because I felt like I was a very good driver, um, I didn't feel like they would have been injured. And he mentioned that I was sitting in my real small truck, but I would have easily got back there with them if I would have trusted someone else to drive. So I like that kind of stuff. That's kind of a first man. I like deciding things. Um, also, please realize that my, my decision-making abilities on this particular trip, more than, probably my whole life long, were being taxed, especially grayed after the civil, civil, civil, civil experience, because we saw that gentleman, um, come up quite angry or quite bothered. And then it turned into this, where is this pain and concern that I'm freaking out when I got the phone call as I was pulling off on the freeway when they said our fingers were sticking out the door. I was like, oh, my [03:24:52] Speaker ?: goodness. So, they got freaked out. I pulled, I think I pulled off right at [03:24:58] Speaker 3: the middle on the side on the, or at least as soon as I could, under this, you know, median or would be called the bridge sitting. And then that's when I got my son. I, I just, he pulled up to me and that's when I pulled off. He went ahead with the park on the other side of the exit. And I just got back on the road and pulled in the exit and sort of about, about half a mile from where I first pulled off when I'd been stopped. the other people may not have known my intention, but my intention was not to get on the freeway because I understand that it greatly increased danger with vehicles and that asked them to do vehicles. I may not have told them that, but that was a destination and when I started walking out of the trailer to get into the other vehicles, I just assumed that the others had done the same thing. [03:26:14] Speaker 1: I love that he keeps getting lost. [03:26:28] Speaker 3: I really don't have any worries about this because if the truth is already known, even initially because my intention is never to hurt anyone. [03:27:00] Speaker 1: Gross. My intention's never hurt anyone. Shut up. [03:27:06] Speaker 3: How do we ask you to don't consider the weather [03:27:08] Speaker 1: circumstance [03:27:09] Speaker 3: as we start getting into that every day? Esther! Also, he mentioned that I rode in the trailer. You have to realize that most of the time when I stayed we were in that trailer, it was just the team picnics and drives in the city around my area. There was a house most of the time on dirt roads. If there was pavement it was just around town and on very slow speed in the roads. and also realized that that whole town is where there is a motorbike in this town you've ever seen in your entire life. There's more motorbikes going everywhere all day pretty much. And so we kind of grew up in that kind of mindset. And I think you already mentioned this but I realized that when I exited the trailer after a mile or so I was not really so concerned it could be slowed to a much, much slower speed. And that's why apparently it seems like it crossed all those turnoffs because most of so I was looking for something somewhere out of the way where there wasn't smoke robbery. [03:28:44] Speaker ?: Because I don't know if you have these streets being mocked by people because of [03:28:54] Speaker 3: the way you dress. It's just it's not very fun. So we always like to get over and find a lot of people. Okay. So you may wonder why I didn't cross the dam on these female witnesses. And it's because I care about them. You know, what I can express. And I decided years ago that if I never came to the trial I would not ask them one question to make them feel uncomfortable as I know it would. [03:29:40] Speaker 1: What a sweetheart. [03:29:42] Speaker 3: And I'm not sure what you're referring to about me saying extremely dangerous but I don't think I understand that but I would never hurt anyone in an extremely dangerous condition not even quote-unquote an enemy. I would not do anything that I thought would harm them. And as we heard before from Brenda's testimony I think there was ventilation in there. It hasn't been a lot but there was ventilation. I've tried my health in there that time right there. And also the door was partially secure from which the mat showed I don't know how much I've tried but when it's last on the bottom it's you just I can't get it open. Random positive they might could have shook open but sorry it's going to have to go over to get that thing to come open. So if that's if their body cam footage was actually it was similar that door was lax and the girls weren't relating to any danger they just might have seemed that way and they said there was like a half inch gap on the top where it's didn't your fingers are out I don't know why it was back there but by all the videos and stuff they had to open that door and latch it when they got there so it didn't really appear for me despite the watching cam footage it was extremely dangerous I also realized that I was totally unaware that the door was open until I entered the freeway until I got out of the country club drive on that's when I realized that they were there and I didn't drive for miles and miles and miles I just I didn't want harm them it was not my intention I never will [03:31:43] Speaker ?: be and frankly you just can't prove that it is my life can testify I [03:31:51] Speaker 3: don't like harm anybody or anybody perhaps what I did was reckless I don't like anything to say about that I don't do like everything I felt like there's even a chance that something happened when they're going to be harmed and I realized that there may not be a lot of faith these days but I was very person so I ask God to bless us every time we do what that we don't please please write more bikes or whatever also what was mentioned several times by some witnesses that they came around rapids really lonely they are lonely but just slow down just that little breaky thing and just close right down to something here and as far as some of your questions about the disorganization of the trailer I don't know if you ever ask children to organize stuff like that but sometimes don't get organized much so I don't think that was disorganized because of when I'm [03:33:22] Speaker ?: sure it was shaking around of course but I don't think it was because of stuff [03:33:26] Speaker 3: falling over and one last thing I [03:33:34] Speaker ?: did not use the restroom I [03:33:37] Speaker 3: just didn't use the restroom where they can smell that trash and fumigate that always out of favor so I'm not sure what that but that did not happen and that concludes my remarks and I just I would just only ask you to consider the facts and consider my opinion and judge me not guilty [03:34:15] Speaker ?: this [03:34:16] Speaker 3: is my humble prayer thank you [03:34:18] Speaker 1: he ends with this is my humble prayer well first fumigating yeah he that restroom moment there you go there you have it so the sound wasn't bad it was I'm glad we played that together so there you go after that what essentially happened was the prosecution got a rebuttal they always do they get the last word and final say and they essentially reiterated sort of their same basic points and then it was time for the jury to deliberate and as many of you know that have followed in true crime one thing I am not good at is predicting when how long a jury will take to deliberate but I did speculate it would be very short grayson suggested 20 I think dr christine suggested 25 or I don't know maybe 22 20 minutes I went across the street to grab myself some caffeine and they came back and they were like verdict um grayson randomly ran into someone she knew in her middle school math class I kid you not he was just on a road trip it was very random I came back and she like what's up no long time no see and then she's like anyway I work in true crime I gotta go up and see Sam Bateman's verdict being read and he's like oh yeah that's dr christine I saw the doc and then he came with us so that was a fun little addition so we were all up there um Grayson her old classmate and you know his crew joined us we all went and watched the verdict come down after 25 minutes of deliberating and was guilty on all three counts as you know and there were hugs in the courtroom there was relief in the courtroom there were many survivors of Samuel Bateman in the you put up you put up Ms. Martin's message and you like that was funny we need some of Corey's weed gummies after that yeah where's Corey when you need her and her drug dealer by the way just got arrested for something horrific by the way I don't know if you know that not not the drug dealer we like but the other drug dealer we don't like it was the boy no it wasn't the boyfriend yeah it was Robert Crozier he was the drug dealer yeah so Robert Crozier has been arrested PS by the way speaking of gummies so so yeah the jury came back and guilty all three counts Sam kind of just looked disappointed but as I've told you I lingered a little bit longer and he was he shook his head and then he Sam is that if that's something he typically does let me know that's kind of what he did after everyone sort of like started to go out of the courtroom outside of the courtroom there were still more hugs and gratitude people again that were his victims his surviving wives you know wives spiritual wives that were grateful to see this conviction another one so outside we all hung out for a little bit longer we were kicked out pretty quickly because you know it was five o'clock everybody wanted to go home and jurors then came out and talked to us and they all said the same thing one of the jurors was like you know honestly we went in we all raised our hand we all knew he was guilty but we decided to kind of go around put those girls into a trailer in a driveway and shut it and locked it like that's abuse never mind any you know everything else agree in light and truth right right so and then another juror just said this is ridiculous we did ask the jurors too if they knew what else he was capable of one juror said you know I've just started googling it another juror so he was just barely starting to google and learning more they really didn't know another juror was like no I need to learn more and then we mentioned a Netflix doc and he goes there's a Netflix documentary about this we're like yeah yeah and he had to go and run to work so so yeah the jurors they knew it was clear cut and they knew what this was and yeah [03:39:11] Speaker 4: in a [03:39:15] Speaker 1: wonderful moment where one of Sam Bateman's survivors thanked the jurors and she introduced herself and said thank you I'm trying to keep her identity private but I'm so and so and I was one of his wives and they said wow we're so sorry and she was able to say those girls were what considered his wives and their minds were blown you know they find him despicable so yeah Master Bateman is not their favorite person Soggy Sam I love your thing so we're going to end I can't believe we're all still here so late thank you for staying I'm going to make it worth it well actually Troublemaker Baker our moderator Troublemaker Baker is going to make it worth it we're going to end in unity with a song yeah everybody hold hands no we're going to pray just kidding we're not we're going to play a song about Samuel Bateman it's called what [03:40:21] Speaker 4: so [03:40:26] Speaker 1: we haven't heard this song but it's been sent to us it's been complete and I just learned the title of it is called sad sack Sam so with that okay let's [03:40:43] Speaker 5: sad sad sack Sam shuffled into town with a permanent upside down frown he whispered so quiet nobody knew if he said bless you or pass the stew you'd lean in close and you'd cup your ears still couldn't hear him standing right here he'd mumble mutter sigh and pout even the crickets would tune him out sad sack Sam oh what a sham preaching like a bargain bin profit man every story changes by the hour talks real soft but loves fake power sad sack Sam yes ma'am nothing he says ever quite will jam if truth showed up he'd probably flee cause that's just not the real me he swears he's some great chosen guide with invisible angels by his side but every tale gets twisted around by lunchtime it's a whole new town monday says the sky is green tuesday says that's never been wednesday asks now who told you thursday claims the moon is blue he hates the color pink it's true says that shade just won't ever do pink socks no pink pie no thanks pink flamingos he storms the banks then he proudly makes his strangest plea it is not in my nature to pee the crowd just blinked in disbelief buddy that's not a spiritual belief sad [03:42:31] Speaker ?: sad [03:42:49] Speaker 5: tomorrow [03:42:50] Speaker ?: tomorrow [03:42:50] Speaker 5: he'll [03:42:50] Speaker ?: he'll [03:42:50] Speaker 5: take it all right back so if you hear a tiny little squeak that's sad sack sam pretending he's meek a whisper a whopper a brand new jam that's life with old sad sad [03:43:03] Speaker ?: sad sad sad [03:43:03] Speaker 5: sad [03:43:03] Speaker ?: sad sad [03:43:03] Speaker 5: sad [03:43:04] Speaker ?: sad sad sad sad sad sad sad sad sad sad sad sad [03:43:10] Speaker 1: there we go that needed that needed spirit hands at the end and with that being so late I can't believe I'm doing spirit hands this late but that that was that was that exciting um that's catchy by the way unfortunately I could listen to Sam sack Sam all [03:43:28] Speaker 4: sad [03:43:29] Speaker 1: sad say that five times real fast by the way sad sad okay we're gonna stop it's getting late clearly um old sad sad Sam I can't I can't even say it Kathy it's so good to see you too it's so catchy though yeah I know we're we'll we'll we'll get that together forever and we'll send it uh you have the file so if anybody wants it let me know um that's great someone suggested gnomes cover it we'll see all right everybody have a great night what a marathon yes please like this video please subscribe to Hidden 2 Crime thank you for being here it is the greatest way to support us um it doesn't cost a thing um we value covering these trials especially one where not many people were covering it we felt it was important we wanted everyone to know what was happening in that courtroom so there you go guilty again on three counts of child abuse justice for those three girls in the back of his trailer and and hopefully justice for his many many victims and survivors may you all be healing so we'll see you goodnight [03:44:36] Speaker ?: Thank you.