Varoufakis on Palantir, AI warfare, and the rise of tech lordism — UpFront

[0:05] The technology firm Palantir has sparked outrage after publishing a 22-point manifesto [0:11] envisioning a future dominated by autonomous weapons and deeper integration between government [0:17] and big tech. The doctrine has fueled a broader debate about the growing power of these companies [0:23] and their ties to authoritarian governments and militaries accused of war crimes. [0:28] Joining me to discuss this is Yanis Varoufakis, former finance minister of Greece and author of [0:33] the book Techno-Feudalism, What Killed Capitalism. Yanis, it's a pleasure to have you on Upfront. [0:39] Thank you very much for joining us. Well, thank you. The pleasure is mine. [0:44] So let's talk about this manifesto. You've said that Palantir's recent manifesto openly declares [0:50] that it will defend a ruling elite, quote, to the death, literally. What was your reaction to the [0:56] manifesto? Well, you know, I actually welcomed it because this is the very first time, at least to [1:03] my knowledge, that a company that is devoted to mass death, a weapons manufacturer, a software [1:14] manufacturer that targets innocent people. I remember the 180 schoolgirls that were killed [1:24] by a Tomahawk missile at the beginning of this Iran war, were targeted by Maven, a program sold by [1:31] Palantir. A company like that comes out with a manifesto. It's a blueprint for a diabolical, [1:40] cowardly new world. So, you know, I welcome it because it is important to be able to read their own [1:48] blueprint for the world that, you know, then if we allow them to take over control of the world, [1:54] well, it's our fault. It's humanity's fault. We have a duty of care to ourselves as a species to [2:03] read through the lines between the lines and stop them. Palantir's AI systems were actually used to [2:10] fuel Israel's genocide in Gaza and, of course, the U.S.-Israeli war in Iran. Even here in the United [2:16] States where I am, it is expanding its partnership and collaborating with U.S. Immigration and Customs [2:23] Enforcement to spy or to surveil immigrants and actually deport them. So, my question is, how do you [2:31] see the relationship between these technologies and violence, genocide and potentially fascism? What does [2:39] that look like? Well, if you read that manifesto, those 22 points, which, of course, have been extracted [2:46] from a whole book that was published by Alexander Karp, the CEO of Palantir, what you'll find is a very [2:55] audacious attempt to essentially create another ideological justification for the return to weaponized [3:06] racism. So, if you look at the last few points amongst those 22, it is very, very clear. They're arguing [3:14] in favour of a new hierarchy of cultures. And we've seen this before, haven't we? This is exactly what [3:20] Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler's textbook was advocating, a hierarchy of races. They call it different cultures, [3:29] but that's what they mean. Racial profiling, the idea that some cultures are superior to other [3:35] cultures. So, you have, you know, effectively the essence of the ideology of Nazism and of South [3:43] African apartheid coming back as a mainstream ideology peddled by one of the companies whose [3:52] meteoric rise in the stock exchanges have ensured that, for instance, you know, did you know that [3:57] Palantir has a much higher capitalization, the New York Stock Exchange, than Lockheed Martin that [4:02] produced the F-35s? So, when you put the two together, the burgeoning capitalization, [4:09] financial power of a company like Palantir, alongside its ideological pursuit, its pursuit [4:19] on the ideological opinion-making level dimension, then you get an idea of the threat [4:27] that our species is facing from companies like Palantir. So, Palantir has its own justifications, [4:32] does it not? The manifesto states that U.S. adversaries will not pause to debate about the [4:38] merits of developing military technologies. They'll just proceed. So, where are we now? Are we in the [4:44] middle of an arms race? Oh, yes, of course. We've now always been in the middle of the arms race. [4:50] AI-driven drones, AI-driven weaponry, is the next great threat. One, it is quite interesting that [4:58] Palantir themselves, in one of these 22 points, clearly state that, you know, the nuclear arms race [5:06] is over, or actually nuclear arms deterrence is over. And what they are advocating, because they don't [5:14] make nuclear weapons, if they were making nuclear weapons, they would want to sell more of them. So, [5:18] what they're saying is that the next great conflict, you know, global conflict, will be over AI-driven [5:26] weaponry. And they may be right about that. They are saying that AI-driven robots are coming. [5:35] What progressive people, what rational, sensible people should say is, well, maybe we should have [5:41] an international agreement for limiting this new threat to humanity. What Palantir is saying is, oh, [5:47] let's go all for it. Let's have more of them. Let's build those machines that kill humanity, [5:53] and then ask questions later. What I'm saying is that this is detrimental to the interest of our species. [6:00] Well, on that disconcerting note, let me thank you for joining us here on Upfront. Lots to think [6:05] about Yanis Varoufakis. Thank you. Well, thank you. That's our show Upfront. We'll be back next week. Goodbye.