US Senate Massachusetts Democratic Primary Debate

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Senator Ed Markey, Congressman Seth Moulton facing off with a Democratic Senate nomination. Massachusetts has a choice to make. A seasoned progressive. Residential consumers must be protected. Or a new generation ready to lead. People should be able to afford health care, feed their families. Live from the Boston 25 studios, an election 2026 debate. Your moderators, Kerry Kavanaugh and Adam Riley. Election 2026. [00:00:34] Speaker 2: Hello and thank you for joining us for the Boston 25 GBH, Massachusetts Democratic Senate primary debate. We appreciate you being here tonight on Boston 25's Kerry Kavanaugh, alongside my co-moderator, Adam Riley from GBH. We welcome our viewers and listeners from across the state. We heard from so many of you as we were preparing for this debate. And hello to our candidates, Senator Ed Markey, Congressman Seth Moulton. We thank you both very much for agreeing to take part in this important conversation tonight. [00:01:04] Speaker 3: Tonight, each candidate will have the chance to deliver opening remarks. Then we'll move through a series of questions, some of which come directly from our viewers and listeners, as well as our media partners, El Planeta and the Bay State Banner. Each candidate will have 45 seconds to answer, followed by a 30-second rebuttal, if warranted. We conclude with 45-second closing remarks. [00:01:26] Speaker 2: Cointas is determined who will give the first opening statement in the order of our questions. With that, let's begin with you, Senator Markey. You have 30 seconds. [00:01:34] Ed Markey: Thank you, Kerry. Thank you, Adam. There's a clear choice in this election about who is going to fight for the future of Massachusetts families. I believe in Bernie Sanders' Medicare for all. I believe that we had to tax millionaires and billionaires in Massachusetts for education for the kids in our state. I opposed the defense budget of, just eight months ago, $1 trillion for Donald Trump to fight his war in Iran. I, in each instance, took the right side for Massachusetts, and Congressman Moulton did not. [00:02:09] Speaker 3: Congressman Moulton, it's your turn. [00:02:11] Seth Moulton: To the people of Massachusetts, I share your frustration tonight. Washington is broken, and I'm fed up. I'm fed up with politicians clinging to power while working families continue to struggle. Now, I want to be clear. I'm not running against Ed Markey because I oppose his policies. In fact, we agree on most things. I'm running against a Washington establishment that puts personal power over public service, and it's been too weak to stand up to the fascist Trump agenda. I believe in servant leadership, where I work for you, not the other way around. And I believe in a new generation of leadership. That's why I'm running for Senate. [00:02:42] Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Our first question is for both candidates. In poll after poll, Massachusetts residents cited cost of living and housing affordability as their top concern. As so many people that are watching and listening to this debate right now and are in the process of making difficult financial decisions, Congressman Moulton, what as a U.S. senator are you going to do to help them? You have 45 seconds. [00:03:04] Seth Moulton: Well, I've put forward a very aggressive affordability agenda because it plants the flag in the ground and says that housing, health care, and education should be human rights. I think that should be our three for 30 in response to Republicans Project 2025. And we get there by doing things like banning private equity from buying up single-family homes, by investing in a transformational regional rail agenda to make it faster than driving to get all around eastern Massachusetts, by having universal pre-K, and making sure that educational, vocational opportunities exist for the next generation. And Senator Markey both agree that health care is a human right. Everybody in America should have health care. [00:03:47] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you. Senator Markey, 45 seconds. [00:03:49] Ed Markey: Thank you. We have a housing crisis in Massachusetts. Senator Elizabeth Warren proposed an historic housing bill. I was stood shoulder to shoulder with her in the Senate. When the vote came up on the floor of the House of Representatives, Congressman Moulton stayed up here in Massachusetts to campaign for the Senate in Medford, rather than going to the floor of the House in order to vote for that historic housing bill. Moreover, Congressman Moulton voted for Trump's $1 trillion defense budget, which he used to commence the war in Iran. There's not an energy crisis in Massachusetts that's rippling through electricity bills, energy bills, grocery prices for every single family in Massachusetts. That was avoidable. Congressman Moulton supported that defense bill. [00:04:38] Speaker 2: Senator, thank you. Do you want to respond? You have 30 seconds. [00:04:40] Seth Moulton: Let's be clear. I voted against this year's defense bill that is actually funding the war in Iran, and I will never vote for wars in the Middle East that are unnecessary because I have fought them. Senator Markey was one of the people who voted to send me and thousands of other Americans to Iraq for a war that should not have been fought. That's why this is deeply personal to me. That's why it matters. And I did vote for the housing bill the first time it came before the House. I support that legislation as well. [00:05:08] Ed Markey: Again, Congressman Moulton did not vote on the housing bill on the House floor when passage was coming up. And by the way, the war in Iran started last June when Donald Trump bombed Iran. Six months later, Congressman Moulton voted for the $1 trillion budget that he and, quote, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth was looking for. That's the money that's being used in the war in Iran, Venezuela, Greenland, Cuba to come. That is what's causing the economic crisis in our country as well as a national security crisis. Senator, thank you. That's time. [00:05:42] Seth Moulton: Senator Markey, I have seen Americans lose their lives because of your vote to send us to war in Iraq. So do not question my commitment to peace in the Middle East. [00:05:53] Ed Markey: You should not have voted for the trillion dollars then for Donald Trump to conduct this war. [00:05:57] Speaker 3: The last question is for you, Senator Markey. You've committed to not seeking another term after this one. Should you win, what would you do in the event that you could no longer effectively serve? [00:06:09] Ed Markey: Well, as I've made very clear, I would step down. But Congressman Moulton should step down. Any public official should step down if they cannot serve. That is a responsibility. It's not public service over self-service. You have to serve the public. And again, that's one of the real distinctions I have with Congressman Moulton. In his service on the Armed Services Committee, he has been given an opportunity by his defense company, Friends, to invest in private equity, sweetheart deals that has enriched himself. And it has enriched those companies. That should be illegal. And he should divest from those investments. [00:06:56] Speaker 3: Senator Markey, that's time. And we will return to that topic and related ones later in the debate. But Congressman Moulton, your campaign has been criticized by some as being ageist. If Senator Markey were 65 years old, would you still be in this race? [00:07:11] Seth Moulton: The question before us is whether at 80 years old you should serve for another six years. And people ought to ask, what are you going to accomplish in the next six years that you haven't been able to accomplish in the last 50? Look, the Washington establishment is broken. If you're honestly happy with the status quo, if you think the Democratic establishment is winning for Massachusetts, if you think it's fine that the Democratic establishment has allowed a second term of Donald Trump, then vote for the status quo. But if you think we ought to have an honest discussion about the future of our politics, if you think we ought to have an honest discussion about our health, I've offered to disclose my health records, the senator refuses. Just like I have disclosed my taxes, and the senator has refused to disclose half of his family's wealth. [00:07:59] Ed Markey: Adam, I will just say this. Yeah, it's about the future. It's about Medicare for all, which Congressman Moulton does not support. That's the agenda for next January and February on the floor of the United States Senate. It's to ensure that we're protecting trans kids from discrimination, which Congressman Moulton instead has thrown those kids under the political bus. We will get to that. There's a big difference between the two of us in terms of these issues about the future, and he has a backwards-looking political agenda. [00:08:29] Seth Moulton: Senator, we both support universal health care. When you were elected last time, you promised to pass Medicare for all. It hasn't been passed. [00:08:37] Speaker 2: We are going to come up to health care again, but I want to move on to our next question, and this is also for both candidates. Massachusetts ratepayers, as we all know, are paying some of the highest energy costs in the country. If Democrats regain control of the House and the Senate in the midterms, Senator Markey, what is the biggest step that you can take to bring down utility costs? For us here, 45 seconds. [00:08:58] Ed Markey: First, we have to end the war in Iran. It is resulting in skyrocketing energy prices. That was an avoidable war. If Trump did not have the money that Congressman Moulton voted for. We need to restore the tax breaks for wind and solar that I was able to put on the books in the 2022 IRA, the biggest climate bill in history. That lowers electricity costs. We have to continue to expand the offshore wind construction in Massachusetts. That was going to provide 5,000 new megawatts of electricity. We run the whole of Massachusetts on 13,000 megawatts a year. That will lower electricity prices. But we have to end the war in Iran. That's cascading as an energy price onto the kitchen tables of every person in Massachusetts. And then we have to expand to a renewable, Green New Deal revolution. Thank you, Senator. [00:09:48] Speaker 2: That's your time. Congressman, what will you do to bring down energy costs? 45 seconds. [00:09:52] Seth Moulton: Senator Markey has been a champion of energy policy for 50 years. And energy bills have only gone up. Only gone up. He's right, though, that the first thing we should do is stop the war in Iran. And I know that personally. And that's why we should not vote for wars in the Middle East like the senator did when he was a congressman supporting the war in Iraq without asking the tough questions of the Bush administration, just believing their lies, rather than standing up to the establishment. Just like, Senator, you did not stand up to Trump and even to Senator Schumer when he asked you to vote for 61 Trump nominees, including the architect of all these wars, Marco Rubio. [00:10:31] Speaker 2: Congressman, can I ask you, do you have any thoughts on how you would bring down these energy rates? Absolutely. [00:10:35] Seth Moulton: So what we need to do, the first thing I said was stop the war in Iran. That will immediately bring down gas prices. But we also need to have a lot more electricity in Massachusetts. Yes, that's restoring the tax credits for wind and solar. It's expanding green power all over the state. And it's a real serious commitment to bringing down electricity prices as part of energy policy. That's a commitment that I make. [00:11:00] Speaker 2: Thank you. For equal time, do you want to add something? [00:11:02] Seth Moulton: Yeah, please. [00:11:03] Ed Markey: Look, it was Congressman Moulton who didn't ask the tough questions. Donald Trump bombed Iran last spring. There was an impeachment motion brought out onto the House floor because of that. And then, six months later, Trump asked for a trillion dollars for him and Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth. And Congressman Moulton voted for it. That's the money being used. If there's anyone who wants the question... Congressman Moulton did not ask the tough questions. And consumers in Massachusetts at their kitchen table are paying the price in higher energy prices right now. [00:11:37] Seth Moulton: Just real quickly, if anyone wants to see the time that Pete Hegseth came before the Armed Services Committee, that MSNBC has held up as a model for how to hold the Trump administration accountable, please check it out on my website. [00:11:50] Speaker 3: There you have it. Congressman Moulton, we have to move on from that last question. Congressman Moulton, in your last debate, you said when you were asked about student-athletes who are transgender, to anyone out there listening tonight, anyone in the LGBTQ community or anyone else, I stand with you because I've always stood with you. But after the last presidential election, you said, I have two little girls. I don't want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete. Congressman Moulton, which is it? [00:12:23] Seth Moulton: To the trans community, feeling the weight and the pain of the Trump administration policies, I deeply recognize your trauma. And I'm sorry if my comments hurt you. That was not my intention. I'm a proud co-sponsor of the Transgender Bill of Rights, a proud repeat co-sponsor of the Equality Act, and I have a 100% voting record with the human rights campaign. If you're in the trans community or you're a trans kid feeling the weight of the Trump administration and the Supreme Court, you matter, you're valued, and I will always have your back. And I will not vote for 61 Trump nominees, including Marco Rubio, who are leading the charge against trans kids like Senator Markey did. [00:13:12] Speaker 3: Congressman, we'll leave it there. Senator Markey. [00:13:14] Ed Markey: Yeah, after the 2024 election that the Democrats lost, Congressman Moulton then blamed the Democratic Party defense of trans kids as the reason why we lost. He just took the whole playbook of MAGA and Trump and he blamed those kids for the loss. He threw them under the political bus. We should have been loving those kids. There's only 12 trans athletes on the whole of the NCAA. We should have been embracing them. Instead, what Congressman Moulton did was he threw them under the bus. And then just three weeks ago, the Supreme Court of the United States agreed with him and said that those kids are not entitled to constitutional protections. Massachusetts has those protections. We have to fight to expand it for the whole country. [00:14:05] Seth Moulton: I've made my position clear. And I think that allies for trans kids should stand together against the Trump administration when they are trying to assault who they are every single day. And you don't stand together as Democrats when you vote for 61 Trump nominees. Congressman, let me ask you just to be absolutely clear. [00:14:22] Speaker 3: Do you still have a fear that your daughters could be run over on a playing field by a biological male or formerly male athlete? [00:14:33] Seth Moulton: My kids are young. They play co-ed sports. But the point I made is that as Democrats, we can't have that debate. That was my full quote. And I think we should be willing to talk about these issues. But I stand 100% with the trans community. Thank you. [00:14:46] Speaker 2: Let's move on to the next question. Senator Markey, it's for you. It's for you. The Republican candidate for Senate, John Deaton, has launched a satirical website suggesting you don't spend enough time in Massachusetts. In a recent ad, Congressman Moulton says you spend too much time in D.C. His campaign team has implied you don't even live here. So, Senator Markey, where are you spending more time, Malden or Maryland? 45 seconds. [00:15:06] Ed Markey: Look at it. My father was a truck driver for the Hood & Milk Company. I've been born and raised in Malden, Massachusetts. It's where I lived my whole life. And what Donald Trump is doing is he's bringing out the Malden in me every time he attacks programs for kids in Malden sitting on their porches dreaming about what they can be in this country. It's the same way I was dreaming as the son of a milk truck driver. When he attacks health care programs, educational programs, environmental justice programs, that's what I fight to do on the floor of the United States Senate for those kids. I am one of those kids. So, yeah, I learn in Malden, but then I go to the Senate floor to fight for them. And, again, on this housing bill, Congressman Moulton didn't even leave Medford in a campaign event to go down to vote on the housing bill to protect those families from skyrocketing housing costs. [00:15:56] Speaker 2: Congressman, any rebuttal on his answer? [00:15:58] Seth Moulton: I mean, Senator, then why don't you just disclose your taxes as I have? Why don't you disclose half of your taxes that maybe show are you paying more taxes to Maryland than to Massachusetts? What assets are you hiding in Maryland that you don't want the voters of Massachusetts to understand? And I think you should just answer the question. Do you spend more days in Maryland or in Massachusetts? That's a fair question for people to ask. I've done 53 town halls across this state since the campaign began because I believe a senator should show up in Massachusetts. The senator has done one. [00:16:30] Speaker 2: Quick response if you have one. [00:16:31] Ed Markey: I've released my tax forms. They're there for anyone watching tonight to see. Half of your family's taxes have not been released. And I have released my personal financial disclosure report. Anyone can see what my financial situation is. Thank you. It's very clear. Thank you, Senator. It's transparent. What's not transparent are those sweet hot deals. Thank you, Senator. We're going to move on to the next question, please. You have not disclosed half your taxes that Congressman Moulton has been enjoying. [00:16:53] Speaker 3: Talk about financial deals. Each of you has implied that the other is, I don't want to use the term guilty. Because that has legal consequences. But each has suggested that the other has engaged in some sort of financial malfeasance. I'd like to hear what specifically you believe your opponent has done wrong. And Senator Markey, we will start with you. [00:17:13] Ed Markey: Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Congresswoman Moulton serves on the House Armed Services Committee. He was approached by private equity, political donors to him. And he was given an opportunity to invest in companies, Divergent, Web AI, Aura, at an early stage that's not open to the public. And then he voted for bloated defense budgets. And out of those investments, he's made millions. Those companies have made millions. That should be illegal. Congressman Moulton should divest of any of those ill-gotten gains, which he has received because of his membership on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman Moulton, would you like to rebut? [00:17:59] Seth Moulton: These attacks are false. They're just not true. We have followed every law and ethics rule above and beyond. And every time that Senator Markey implies these investments are due to my job and not my wife's success, that's not only wrong, but it's sexist. Senator Markey, you and I both married up. Your family has made investments. So is mine. But the difference is we have disclosed everything. We've disclosed those taxes. But meanwhile, in 1996, you wrote a bill, a telecom deregulation bill, after $400,000 of telecom lobbyist money. That bill made a bunch of telecom billionaires who are paying for your campaign right now. If that's not pay to play, I don't know what is. [00:18:41] Speaker 3: Is there anything else you'd like to add in terms of things you believe Senator Markey has done that are inappropriate before we give him a chance to rebut? [00:18:48] Seth Moulton: Look, we don't know because he won't disclose half of his family's taxes. I think that we ought to know those things. Trump started this, right? Trump was the first president in modern history not to disclose his taxes. He also hasn't disclosed his health records. Those are common sense things that I think the voters of Massachusetts deserve to see. That's why I'm transparent. That's why my family has been completely above board. And that's the big difference in this race. [00:19:14] Speaker 3: Senator Markey, brief rebuttal? [00:19:16] Speaker ?: Yep. [00:19:16] Ed Markey: Congressman Moulton serves on the House Armed Services Committee. Those defense companies approached him, his donors in this campaign, and they gave him an opportunity to invest early before the public could even see it. That's wrong. That should be illegal. He should divest of that money. And by the way, in this race, the Senate race, he has accepted $350,000 in corporate PAC money. I have not received a single nickel. That's the difference. [00:19:45] Seth Moulton: He is running as a corporate, he is running as a corporate Democrat. That is just patently false, and this needs to be addressed, because both the Boston Globe and the Herald have reported on this. And Senator Markey, despite repeatedly telling his supporters that he doesn't take corporate PAC money, has taken corporate PAC money in this race. I have not. [00:20:04] Speaker 2: We're going to leave it there. [00:20:05] Seth Moulton: That is a very clear distinction. [00:20:06] Ed Markey: That is absolutely untrue. I have not taken corporate PAC money. And if anyone tries to give me corporate PAC money, it is returned to Senator. Thank you. [00:20:14] Speaker 2: We're going to move on to the next question, because we heard from so many viewers about this issue I want to make sure that we get on. It is for both of you, okay? So this is about ICE, and you both have called for ICE to be abolished. So the question is, if the agency is dismantled, how does the United States effectively enforce immigration law? Senator Markey, this one starts with you. 45 seconds. [00:20:34] Ed Markey: No, thank you. I voted against the creation of ICE. I could see its authoritarian personality as it was being created. I voted no. In 2020, I voted to abolish ICE. And this year, I was the first senator to call for the abolition of ICE. We can see what's happening with the Haitian population right now. We can see what's happening with the Salvadoran, with other immigrant groups in our country. ICE must be abolished. The correct way to move is to have a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million immigrants in our country for the TPS holders, for the DACA holders, for all immigrants. We need a pathway to citizenship for these people. They deserve to be protected, and that is what my goal is. [00:21:19] Speaker 2: I'm going to give you 15 more seconds. You will get equal time on this, but I need to know how you're going to enforce the immigration laws, because that is a consequence of having so many people here. Not everybody here is here with good intentions, right? [00:21:31] Ed Markey: Well, we need to enforce the immigration laws with constitutional protections. And that's why I've introduced the Shield Act to provide $100 million so that these immigrants get the constitutional legal protections, which they are entitled to. Right now, Trump is acting as a dictator, and that is wrong. He's frightening these families all across Massachusetts, and they must be given the legal protections. [00:21:55] Speaker 2: So, Congresswoman, we'll start with 45 seconds for your answer, and we'll go from there. [00:21:59] Seth Moulton: Look, the Washington Senate establishment, including the Democrats, who have been there for, in some cases, 50 years, have failed to solve this problem. And that's why Trump is able to weaponize the issue. And that's why I was the first in this race to call for abolishing ICE, but I went farther, to say that they need to be prosecuted as well. We need accountability, which this current Senate has not delivered to the Trump administration. You can't enforce the law if you think you're above it. But I've also laid out a very clear immigration plan that includes putting immigration enforcement back in the Department of Justice where it belongs. That's the answer to your question. We deserve an immigration system that incentivizes people to come here legally, not illegally, and has a pathway to citizenship for everybody who's part of our community and wants to work hard to earn the right to be citizens alongside the rest of us. [00:22:47] Speaker 3: All right, now we have an opportunity for each candidate to ask the other a question. The campaigns were given an opportunity to prepare the question in advance, and a coin toss was used to decide which candidate gets to ask their question first. Senator Markey, you may ask your question of Congressman Walton now. [00:23:05] Ed Markey: Thank you. And I'll raise this. Last spring, President Trump began his bombing of Iran. And that was the commencement of the war against Iran. And two weeks later, on the floor of the United States House of Representatives, there was an impeachment motion that was brought out. You voted no on that impeachment motion. And then subsequently, you voted for the trillion dollars for Trump and Pete Heksef to have to conduct and continue this war against Iran. Could you please explain why you would vote against impeachment of Donald Trump as he commenced the war in Iran and then vote for that trillion-dollar budget that he's using even today to conduct that war? [00:23:48] Seth Moulton: Senator, I have voted repeatedly to impeach Donald Trump, but we want it to actually happen. And so the timing matters, the vote matters, and the hypocrisy that you would attack me as someone who has been tirelessly showing up on TV, and by the way, not afraid to go on Fox News. You don't go on Fox News. You don't show up on Sean Hannity's show. We need to take on these MAGA Republicans. We need to show up with the credibility of people who have seen the consequences of failed leadership in Washington on the ground in the Middle East. And that's why I would never take your vote for the war. You have this specious way to try to imply that supporting the troops, as most Democrats do, supports the war in Iran, when I have been one of the most outspoken opponents of that war. When you voted for the war in Iraq, Senator, you voted to send people like me, thousands of young Americans, to risk their lives. Don't dismiss that, Senator. I just want to have a chance to get in. I just want to have a chance to get in on that. Senator, don't dismiss the 4,996 families who loved ones' lives in that war that you voted for. [00:24:57] Ed Markey: Congressman Moulton, he's just playing to the Fox MAGA playbook. He did not support impeaching Donald Trump after he began the illegal unconstitutional war against Iran. And then six months later, in December, just eight months ago, he voted to give Trump and Pete Hegsworth a trillion dollars, to give this MAGA playbook another trillion dollars. That's what's playing out. We have a national security crisis in our country. We have an economic crisis in our country. And it all goes back to not standing up to these MAGA, Trump, House and Senate members. That's what I have done. He instead voted no to take them on. [00:25:36] Speaker 3: Congressman Moulton, you now can ask Senator Markey a question. Based on what just happened, he'll be able to reply and you'll get a final rebuttal. [00:25:44] Seth Moulton: Just real quickly, supporting 61 Trump nominees, that is the MAGA playbook. And that's what you did, Senator. This is my question. Senator, in the newly released Epstein files, your name appears repeatedly. And I'm not going to go into all the details, but I just want to ask one question. And I ask it from the perspective of a father of two young girls at home. Why would you even take a meeting with a lobbyist on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein? Just how could you do that long after he was convicted? [00:26:30] Ed Markey: What you are doing right now is absolutely reprehensible. I have never met Jeffrey Epstein. I don't know Jeffrey Epstein. I have been calling for the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein since day one at 8 a.m. I don't know him. And what he's done is reprehensible. The predatory practices which he engaged in, targeting young girls, is absolutely reprehensible, as is what you're doing right now. I have never had any relationship with Epstein. I have no business with him. And what you're saying right now is absolutely the worst of the playbook of destruction and character assassination, which is so characteristic of MAGA Republicans. [00:27:20] Speaker 3: Congressman, the Epstein files, as you know, are enormous. You can find a lot of names in there. Can you provide any more specifics about the context in which Senator Markey was mentioned? [00:27:29] Seth Moulton: Senator Markey's name appears repeatedly in the files in the context of doing a favor for one of Epstein's pals who was sex trafficking women. And if that's not reprehensible, I don't know what is. But I just asked a simple question that he refused to answer. It's not about Jeffrey Epstein himself. It's about a lobbyist meeting with you on his behalf. I've heard so many at these town halls. People always come up to me and say, thank you for showing up in our community, Seth, because Senator Markey doesn't show up. And I can never get a meeting in his office. And yet, Epstein's lobbyist is good. [00:28:08] Ed Markey: This just can't continue. You asked for specifics, Adam. You're not getting specifics from him. He's not giving you the details. I gave you the details on Divergent and Aura and WebAI and his investment. He's not giving you those details. And in terms of my showing up, the mayor of Lynn, his biggest city, has endorsed me. The mayor of Salem, his hometown, has endorsed me. I show up and deliver. They have a choice. They are selecting me in this race. They endorsed you before I got in the race, Senator. No, they did not. [00:28:38] Speaker 2: We have another question from both of our candidates on a very important topic that we have touched on already here tonight. You both have stated your opposition to the war in Iran. We're a little more than five months into the conflict. But here's what I want to ask you. If this war is ended, what action would you support if Iran moved again to shut down the Strait of Hormuz? Congressman Moulton, 45 seconds. [00:28:58] Seth Moulton: Well, first of all, we need to return to diplomacy. Diplomacy is what any combat veteran will tell you should always be the first choice. That's what I learned serving on the ground in the Middle East, seeing thousands of Americans killed and maimed by the vote that the senator took. What diplomacy means with Iran is returning to the Obama nuclear deal. I was the first person to speak on this PAC capital steps after Nancy Pelosi when that deal was proposed because I fought tirelessly to get that passed. And what it does is it's actually empowered the moderates in Iran who are fighting for regime change. When Trump ripped that up, it empowered the hardliners. What we need to do right now is take away the leverage that Iran has. I would ship the oil up north through Iraq to reduce that pressure and then get to the negotiating table as soon as possible. [00:29:54] Speaker 2: Senator Markey, 45 seconds. [00:29:56] Ed Markey: Yeah, we have to go back to the negotiating table. The treaty which Barack Obama and John Kerry negotiated was working its full scope safeguards by the International Atomic Energy Agency over the nuclear program in Iran. That deal was in place. Donald Trump destroyed it. We have to go back to renegotiating a nuclear deal. And at the same time, we have to once again learn the lesson of the Strait of Hormuz. The price of energy in Massachusetts is set in the Strait of Hormuz. We need to take my legislation that was passed in 2022, put it back in place next January for wind, for solar, for all electric vehicles, for battery storage technologies that are going to be the energy independent solution which we need. We just have to get out of these Middle Eastern quagmires. [00:30:42] Speaker 2: Senator, thank you. That's your time. [00:30:43] Speaker 3: Our next question comes from the Bay State Banner, our media partner. It's also for both candidates. Due to historic redlining, dense paving, and industrial zoning, many communities of color experience significantly higher urban, excuse me, urban heat island effects, higher asthma rates, and less canopy cover. How are you addressing climate impacts in underserved communities? 45 seconds. Senator Markey, you start. [00:31:08] Ed Markey: No, thank you. In the 2022 climate bill, I was able to work to include $60 billion for environmental justice for communities like Boston and Brockton and Lawrence and Malden and Springfield, the asthma capital of the United States. And that funding was meant to remediate that historic environmental injustice in poor and urban communities. We have to restore that funding. I was successful in being and successfully getting the funding for an urban forest program for the city of Boston to be able to plant hundreds of trees in Boston. I work with Mayor Wu in order to accomplish that goal. And that funding is there and it is being implemented to make sure that that tree canopy is in place for the people in the poorest parts of the city of Boston. [00:32:01] Speaker 3: All right, Congressman Walden. [00:32:02] Seth Moulton: These are nice ideas and I support them too. But we need transformative change for communities in Massachusetts. And that's why I have put forward a transformational regional rail program that will make it faster than driving to get around eastern Massachusetts. Imagine being able to live on the North Shore and work on the South Shore because every train from the North goes through to the South and West. Every train is electrified. And we finally have rail service like the rest of the world enjoys. I mean, Morocco has high-speed rail. Well, you should be able to get to Springfield in 45 minutes, not on the old-fashioned commuter rail program that the senator supports. But here's the brilliant piece. When you do this, all the rail yards around North Station and South Station become developable land for housing. And all the rail yards around South Station and those environmental justice communities become housing and parks. It's transformative for those communities and transformative for everybody's commutes. [00:32:57] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you. This question also for both candidates, and it's one facing many Massachusetts cities and towns right now. Do you support data centers, those hyperscale data centers being built in Massachusetts? Congressman Moulton, 45 seconds. [00:33:12] Seth Moulton: I do not support any data centers that do not have the approval of the local community. There are some communities that want them. Most do not. And that absolutely reduce electricity prices, not raise them, protect more environment, more of the environment than they impact, and will actually create jobs here in Massachusetts. These should be decisions empowered by the local communities. Now, look, AI is not going to go away, and Massachusetts should be part of the AI future. But I believe that the generation that grew up with the Internet and is going to have to live for decades with AI should be charting our way forward. [00:33:54] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you so much. Senator Markey, 45 seconds. Do you support data centers, those hyperscale data centers being built in our state? [00:34:01] Ed Markey: Any community should be able to veto any data center from coming into their community. They don't want it. They should not have it. And why? Because they can see the impact of higher electricity prices, higher water prices, environmental degradation in their community. If they don't want it, they should not have to have one of those plants in their community. But we need more than that. We need to pass my AI Civil Rights Act so that the discrimination in the real world doesn't move online. That's why the civil rights groups in America have endorsed my AI Civil Rights Act. We need an AI and environment bill to protect against environmental degradation. We need AI and children and teenagers' privacy bill of rights. Because we have a mental health crisis led by AI in our youth community. [00:34:49] Speaker 2: We need to put those protections in place. You want to continue on this topic? [00:34:52] Speaker 3: You've actually both anticipated where we want to go next with this. There is, as you both know, widespread concern that AI could trigger job loss, jeopardize privacy, and just generally erode our ability to think as humans. Senator Markey, in 45 seconds, what's the federal government's responsibility when it comes to regulating AI? [00:35:12] Ed Markey: Well, I was successful just three months ago with Senator Cassidy, Republican from Louisiana, and passing my AI privacy bill of rights for teenagers and children. Two years ago, one in nine teenage girls contemplated suicide. One in four teenage girls actually attempted suicide in our country. One in five LGBTQ youth attempted suicide. We need protections in place for those kids. We need protections in place against civil rights violations. That's my law. Against environmental degradation. That's my law. And AI and workers. These companies want to turn workers into automatons in their manufacturing facility, in their factories. My law protects against AI being used in a way that just turns human beings into robots. [00:36:01] Speaker 3: Okay, we'll leave it there. Congressman Walton. [00:36:03] Seth Moulton: AI needs to be protected, and it needs to be the federal government that steps up to do this. And yet again, the federal government, under the current leadership, has just failed. This is another failure of the Democratic establishment, and frankly, the whole congressional establishment in Washington. And a good model is not what the Congress did with the telecom bill that the senator is so proud of. Because in 1996, he passed a piece of legislation to deregulate the telecom industry. It created a lot of billionaires who were supporting his campaign, but it did nothing to protect kids. And as a father of two little girls, I frankly dread the time when they become teenagers and get on social media. That should be the lesson of what not to do. We need to protect our kids. And one of the proudest pieces of legislation I've passed is 988, the National Mental Health Hotline, that on its own has decreased teen suicide by 11%. [00:36:57] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you. [00:36:58] Ed Markey: I just need to respond because that was inaccurate. We'll give you a brief response then, Congressman. 30 seconds, Senator. My legislation created the Child Online Privacy Protection Act. That's the law by which YouTube and other companies get sued. I also was able to build in an $80 billion, billion dollar program. Every time people make a phone call, there's a little tax on that phone call. That's what pays for the computers and libraries across the country. That's what helps to pay for kids to have computers on their desk in Brockton, in Boston, in Springfield, in Worcester, across this country. That's my program, taking care of the kids of this nation to make sure they get the tools they need to advance and to protect themselves. [00:37:37] Speaker 3: The last word briefly goes to you, Congressman Walton. [00:37:39] Seth Moulton: I don't think that any family of teenagers out there tonight thinks that our kids are safe from the Internet. And that's why we need a new generation of leadership to change it. [00:37:48] Speaker 2: Okay, thank you both. Another question for both of you, and I promised we'd come back to this topic. Healthcare costs, they are soaring. What is one reform that you have proposed or plan to propose to rein them in? Congressman, 45 seconds. [00:38:01] Seth Moulton: The senator and I both support healthcare as a universal right. We both support universal healthcare. We have a slight difference in that I think Medicare should be available to all. The senator thinks it should be opposed on all. But one of the things that my plan does, which President Obama has always supported, as part of what his agenda was for Obamacare, although it didn't get passed by the Congress before I was there, because it actually allows unions and others who have fought hard for the healthcare plans that they want to hold on to those healthcare plans. For those of us, like myself, who get our healthcare from the VA, because I made a commitment to continue to go into the VA, not getting the gold-plated congressional healthcare plan, we can stay with the VA. But that competition brings down costs. And you're right, costs are soaring. And we don't need taxes to go up because of the senator's plan. [00:38:51] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you. 30-second rebuttal. [00:38:53] Ed Markey: Thank you. First, and I'll be the health subcommittee chair. [00:38:58] Speaker 2: Apologies, you have 45 seconds to answer this first. Then you can rebut if you want. Yeah, sorry. [00:39:03] Ed Markey: Sorry, 45. Yes, sir. Next year, I'll be the chair of the Senate health subcommittee if I win this race. My first order of business, restore the $1 trillion in Medicaid cuts that Donald Trump put on the books. That's going to be 300,000 people in Massachusetts who lose their coverage. Restore the Affordable Care Act cuts. That's going to take 300,000 people who are now seeing skyrocketing bills and give them back to subsidies, which they need. But beyond that, we need to pass Medicare for all. Bernie Sanders and I, we're fighting for Medicare for all, to make sure that we take on the insurance companies, take on the big health companies in our nation, to make sure that everyone in our country gets the affordable health care which they need and they deserve. Health care is a fundamental human right. [00:39:49] Speaker 2: Congressman, any rebuttal? [00:39:50] Seth Moulton: They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery. And, Senator, I'm honored that you said health care should be a human right because that's what I've said. Health care, housing, and education should all be human rights in our country. I think that after years of trying the Senator's plan, which has not gotten health care for all, we need a different approach that will bring down health care costs and ensure that everybody in America has health care. [00:40:12] Speaker 2: Any rebuttal? 30 seconds. [00:40:13] Ed Markey: Yeah, thank you. Well, Congressman Moulton is not imitating me because he does not support Medicare for all. And we have a fundamentally broken health care system. We're running a sick care system, not a health care system, in this country. And the only way to fix it is to move to Medicare for all to make sure that everyone gets the affordable health care which they deserve for their family. Health is the first wealth, our great poet, Ralph Waldo Emerson, once said. [00:40:42] Speaker 3: The next question comes from our partner, El Planeta. It is for both candidates. In Massachusetts, we've seen people with valid work permits or pending immigration cases detained. If the Democratic Party does regain control of the Senate, what specific legislation would you advance to guarantee transparency and due process? Senator Markey, 45 seconds. [00:41:04] Ed Markey: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we have a crisis across Massachusetts and our country right now. ICE agents are descending upon our communities and just grabbing people who have legitimate work permits. By the way, I saw that up in Bidifid, Maine. I went up and visited Bidifid, Maine after Mr. Guerrero was murdered by ICE agents just two weeks ago. So we have to guarantee that we give all full legal protections to those workers. They're in our hospitals. They're in our nursing homes. They're in our restaurants. They're our construction workers. They have work permits, which are legal. And that's why, again, I have a $100 million program, the SHIELD Act to make sure they get the legal protections which they need in order to continue to work legally here in the United States. [00:41:50] Speaker 3: We'll leave it there. Congressman Moulton, what specific legislation would you advance? [00:41:55] Seth Moulton: Well, I want to be very clear. I have a very clear three-point immigration program. Number one, prosecute ICE. Prosecute them for violating the law. They need to be held accountable. Number two, create an immigration system that actually incentivizes people to come here legally, not illegally. My office has won five democracy awards, one of them for constituent services. We're regarded as one of the best immigration offices in the entire country, in part because we worked so hard to get our allies out of Afghanistan. But it was harder for them to go through the bureaucracy than it often is to come across the border. And three, we need a pathway to citizenship for everybody who's here. It's also why I have put forward the NOM Act. Yes, it's appropriately named. But what it would do is restore the right to prosecute federal officials for violating people's civil rights the way local officials can be prosecuted today. [00:42:46] Speaker 2: Thank you. This question is for both of you. And this is another topic that we heard over and over again when we asked our viewers to reach out to us. So, Congressman Moulton, we're going to start with you. Do you identify as a progressive Democrat? Why or why not? [00:43:00] Seth Moulton: I do, because progressive means progress. And I have put forward one of the most progressive affordability agendas of anybody in Congress today because it plants the flag in the ground. It says that housing, health care, and education are just human rights. I talked about some of the things we can do to expand housing access, and I voted for many bills to do so. I also talked about what it would mean to make it faster than driving to get all around eastern Massachusetts. I mean, think about it. Living in Salem today, my wife couldn't work on the South Shore or out west because you just literally can't get there at rush hour. This will dramatically improve access to housing all across the state. We also need to make sure we have universal pre-K. That's not only good for our kids' education, it's great for working parents as well. Congressman, that's your time. Those are some of the things in my affordability agenda. And by the way, we pay for it because it needs to be paid for with a wealth tax on the mega millionaires because they need to pay their fair share, too. [00:43:56] Speaker 2: Congressman, thank you. Senator Markey, do you identify as a progressive Democrat? Why or why not? 45 seconds. [00:44:01] Ed Markey: Well, I'm a progressive Democrat, and it's why Bernie Sanders has endorsed me in this race. Why Elizabeth Warren has endorsed me in this race. Why Ayanna Pressley has endorsed me in this race. Because I am the progressive in this race. And it's because I support Medicare for All. I believe in universal health care that is provided through a Medicare for All system. I believe in the Green New Deal. I believe that we need to have an energy revolution of wind and solar, all electric vehicles, battery storage technologies that are going to lower costs, reduce greenhouse gases, and have union jobs installing that. And I believe that we need to tax billionaires, but also to make sure that funding then goes to child care, goes to education of kids in our cities, so that they get the same opportunities which I receive to become a part of the American dream. [00:44:53] Speaker 2: Thank you. Next question comes directly from a Boston 25 News viewer, and it is for both of you as well. Do you believe that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza? Senator Markey, you have 45 seconds. [00:45:08] Ed Markey: Yes. Israel committed war crimes in Gaza. They were dropping 1,000 bombs on entire city blocks, destroying hospitals, destroying schools. They were creating hunger amongst those who are most vulnerable, and Bibi Netanyahu was blocking the food being able to be supplied to them. And it is an absolute atrocity. We should provide no further military funding for Israel, for Bibi Netanyahu. What they have done is an absolute atrocity. It's a war crime. It's an international war crime. It's a crime against the laws of the United States of America. [00:45:53] Speaker 2: Senator, that's your time. Thank you. Congressman, 45 seconds. [00:45:56] Seth Moulton: It is an absolute moral travesty. What has gone on in Gaza. Even in response to the heinous attacks of October 7th. And this is deeply personal to me, because I spent three years on the ground in the Middle East, fighting a war that should not have been fought, thanks to the vote of people in Congress like Senator Markey. That's why I have refused AIPAC's support and returned contributions in this campaign. That's why I recently voted for the Massey Amendment to stop $3.3 billion in American taxpayer funding for Israeli weapons. And that's why I've spoken out repeatedly, using my credibility from my time in the Middle East, against what Prime Minister Netanyahu is doing, as one of the first in Congress to call for him to resign. [00:46:43] Speaker 2: Thank you. That's your time. [00:46:45] Speaker 3: The next question comes from a GBH listener. And we'll start with Congressman Moulton. What do you support or oppose that you believe your opponent does not? [00:46:56] Seth Moulton: Well, the first vote that I take when I get to the United States Senate will be not for Senator Schumer, because we need new leadership at the top as well. I will also not vote to support Trump nominees. And the senator hasn't just supported a few. He voted for 61 Trump nominees, including Secretary Rubio. I mean, Senator, you served for years with Senator Rubio. The guy's a snake. How could you vote to send him to the State Department? Look what he's doing to trans people across America. Look what he's doing to our service members who have to go fight his wars. I will not take votes like that at all. I will also not violate pledges I've made to the voters of Massachusetts, like the senator has with his fossil fuel pledge, which he's repeatedly violated. He violated that pledge in his last campaign, taking fossil fuel lobbyist money. He was forced to return it. Then he went back to those same donors and took it again. We need honesty from our senators. [00:47:58] Speaker 3: All right. Senator Markey, what's something you believe or oppose that you would say Congressman Moulton does not? [00:48:05] Ed Markey: Well, first I'd say I reject all fossil fuel money. Someone tries to give it to me. They get it back. Congressman Moulton knows that. And in terms of snakes, well, Pete Hegseth is a war criminal. And Congressman Moulton voted a $1 trillion budget for the war in Vietnam, a war in Iran after Hegseth had made it clear what his intentions were. So this is all kind of red herrings. There's so many red herrings here. We need an aquarium. But that is just not accurate. If you want a big difference, it's Medicare for all. That goes to the health as the first wealth. That goes to whether or not every family in America can have affordable health care. Bernie Sanders and I, we want Medicare for all. Congressman Moulton does not. [00:48:54] Seth Moulton: We both support universal health care, Senator. [00:48:56] Ed Markey: Not Medicare for all. [00:48:57] Speaker 3: Okay. We have to call it there. Carrie? [00:48:59] Speaker 2: Going to move on to another question again from a Boston 25-year-old. We got a lot of questions from our viewers, which is awesome. And this is, how long is too long to hold public office? Do you support term limits? And if so, what are they? Senator Markey, we start with you. 45 seconds. [00:49:14] Ed Markey: Well, we have term limits. They're called elections. And we have an election coming up in another four weeks. But elections are always about the future. And again, the voters are going to have to decide. Congressman Moulton, again, I'm going to keep coming back to this. He used his service on the Armed Services Committee to enrich himself to the tune of millions of dollars by having the companies Divergent and Aura and WebAI give him access to early investment opportunities. It enriched him. It enriched those companies. And he voted for those bloated defense budgets. Even last December, he voted for them. Public service is a trust. This should not be about self-service. This should be about public service. And that is what the test for this election should be. [00:50:02] Speaker 2: Congressman Moulton, do you support term limits? What are they if you do? 45 seconds. [00:50:06] Seth Moulton: Yes, I do support them. I'm going to answer the question straight up. I do support them because I think too many people in Washington are clinging to power for too long. And frankly, running elections, not based on a 50-year record, but on allegations that are completely false against your opponent, like the allegation that he, again, leveled. When my family has been completely above the board, and on top of that, we have actually disclosed everything we've done while the senator refuses to disclose his taxes. On top of that, I think we need to have an honest discussion about age limits. I mean, we've seen what's happened just in the last few weeks with Senator Graham and Senator McConnell. We cannot afford to lose a vote to Trump and the MAGA Republicans that might result in another conservative Supreme Court justice because a senator misses a vote. [00:50:54] Speaker 2: Congress, then that's your time. [00:50:55] Seth Moulton: Due to a health research. [00:50:56] Speaker 2: That's your time. [00:50:57] Speaker 3: Another question from a GBH listener once more. It's for both candidates. What's one vote that you've taken that you wish you could have back? Congressman Walton, you first. [00:51:07] Seth Moulton: You know, that's a good question. [00:51:09] Speaker 3: You were supposed to say that earlier in the debate, but that's okay. [00:51:13] Seth Moulton: Great questions. No, they're all great questions. Look, I vote on my conscience, you know, every single day. And I've taken votes that have been politically unpopular. I took a vote that the senator has attacked me for, for example, saying that I thanked ICE, which is an absurd allegation because it was a vote to condemn a hate crime where they set a man on fire. Now, some people might say, you know, do you regret that vote because the senator is running completely false ads against you that numerous fact-check organizations have said are just completely wrong and false? But I don't because I'm always going to condemn hate crimes. And I'm always going to be able to go to sleep at night because I think I've done the right thing for my country and my kids. [00:51:57] Speaker 3: Thank you, Congressman. Senator Markey, is there one vote you wish you could have back? [00:52:02] Ed Markey: Yes, I wish I had not voted for NAFTA in 1993. That was a mistake. There weren't environmental and labor safeguards. But I learned that lesson, which is why I voted against a trade deal with China, a trade deal with countries all around the world, because I now came to the conclusion that those trade deals, they get exploited. They wind up with workers paying the price. They wind up with families losing their jobs. So I've been endorsed by the AFL-CIO in this race because they know I understand that their jobs are dependent upon fair trade. And when these trade deals go awry, it's their families that pay the price. And those are the families I stand up for. And that's why the AFL-CIO has my back in this race. [00:52:51] Speaker 3: Senator Markey, we're going to stay with you for just a moment. What was your signature legislative achievement and when was it passed? [00:52:57] Ed Markey: Well, I would say that it was in 2022, just four years ago, when I was able to create a climate bank of $20 billion that was unleashing $150 billion of clean energy money coming to communities all across Massachusetts, creating thousands of jobs and reducing greenhouse gases that are endangering our coastline, endangering families all across the Commonwealth. And also in that legislation, $60 billion worth of environmental justice funding for Brockton, for Boston, for wind, for Springfield and communities all across the Commonwealth. And simultaneously, the tax breaks for wind and solar, offshore wind that I was able to build into that bill to create economic growth and lower electricity prices in Massachusetts. [00:53:49] Speaker 2: You have 45 seconds. [00:53:50] Seth Moulton: 988, National Mental Health Hotline, because it's saving thousands of lives every single month. And I passed it after becoming the first sitting member of Congress to talk about my own mental health struggles when I disclosed dealing with post-traumatic stress after Iraq. And I've never been more honored than to travel around the country and have people come up all over the place and say, Seth, thank you for sharing that story, because it's enabled me and my family to talk about our mental health struggles. That one bill has reduced teen suicide by 11 percent, just on its own. It has several options for veterans and LGBTQ youth that Trump is trying to take away. We're working in a bipartisan coalition to restore it. But that's a piece of legislation that's saving thousands of lives, and I'm proud of it. [00:54:41] Speaker 2: Thank you for your time here. We're almost at our time, but we're going to do a quick lightning round, if you would humor me. You each have five seconds to respond. Congressman Rolton, you get the first question first. Who should the next top Democrat in the Senate be? Five seconds. [00:54:55] Seth Moulton: It should not be Chuck Schumer. Now, I've made a promise that until I get there, I won't say who I have in mind. But I do think there are new leaders. [00:55:01] Speaker 2: Senator Markey, five seconds. [00:55:03] Ed Markey: We need a big debate about new leadership in the Senate, the direction of the Senate. We have to first win the Senate, but we need that debate about new leadership. [00:55:10] Speaker 3: Senator Markey, would you support another government shutdown to achieve Democratic victories or block President Trump's agenda? [00:55:17] Ed Markey: I would absolutely support another government shutdown. I supported the government shutdown last year to protect the Affordable Care Act. I would support another government shutdown this year to protect priorities of Massachusetts. [00:55:27] Seth Moulton: Absolutely. And if you think the Democrats in the Senate today are fighting hard enough against Trump and the Republicans, then vote for the status quo. If you want stronger fighters, that's why we need new leadership. [00:55:37] Speaker 2: We have reached the closing statements of our debate. It's been a good one. I appreciate you both. 45 seconds. Congressman Moulton, you go first. [00:55:45] Seth Moulton: You know, you've heard two different visions for the future of Massachusetts tonight. You've heard one vision that's very much steeped in attacks, the Trump sort of style of attacking your opponent and trying to win an election based on dismantling his record. And you've seen a positive vision for the future. The reality is that we need change in Washington. And I say that with respect for the senator's 50 years of service. There just comes a time to pass the torch to the next generation. And there's no better time for that than now. If you're happy with the status quo, then vote for the senator. But if you believe in change, if you believe in a new generation of leadership with bold new ideas to take Massachusetts forward and to fight harder against Trump and the MAGA Republicans, then I ask for your vote in this election. [00:56:31] Speaker 3: Thank you, Congressman. Senator Markey, now it's your turn. [00:56:34] Ed Markey: Thank you. There's a clear choice in this election, and it's who will fight hardest for your families. I'm partnering with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and that's why they're endorsing me, to fight for lower electricity prices, lower health care costs, to ensure that child care is available and affordable for everyone in our nation. That's the progressive agenda for today. And as opposed to Congressman Moulton, I do not benefit from sweetheart private equity deals in the committees that I serve on. I will never do that. That's what Congressman Moulton represents with the $350,000 in corporate PAC money he has received in this race. And Senator Markey, that is your time. There's a clear choice, and I ask for your vote. [00:57:22] Speaker 2: And I thank you, Senator Markey and Congressman Moulton, both for the spirited debate tonight. Thank you for being here, and thank you to everyone at home, on their cell phones, wherever you're watching this right now, from our Boston 25 viewers and GBH listeners. On behalf of my co-moderator, Adam Riley, I'm Carrie Cavanaugh. Thank you so much for being here tonight and this very important conversation. Have a good evening. [00:57:56] Speaker ?: Thank you.