Tucker vs. Bill Nye the Science Guy

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: We're coming to you live from outside the U.S. Capitol building where President Trump will address a joint session of Congress in fewer than 24 hours. You may hear construction noise behind us during the show. That's because there's construction going on. There always is in Washington, the richest city in America. We want to thank you for that, for sending your tax dollars here. It's built a pretty nice place. Well, Bill Nye the Science Guy is now aspiring to a new title, Bill Nye the Psychoanalyst Guy. During a Facebook Live event with Senator Bernie Sanders today, the mechanical engineer and TV personality said skeptics of global warming suffer from the psychological delusion of cognitive dissonance. It's a slight bump up from last year when he was open to the idea of imprisoning skeptics, global warming, as war criminals. Is that the choice? Bell Viewer Nuremberg, Bill Nye joins us now. Bill, it's great to see you. That doesn't sound like science to me, Bill Nye the Science Guy. That sounds like something very different. So cognitive distance [00:00:54] Bill Nye: is not a delusion. It's a feature. It's human nature. So we in the science community are looking for an explanation why climate change deniers or extreme skeptics do not accept the overwhelming scientific evidence for climate change. And the most reasonable explanation is you have a worldview and then you have evidence and the evidence disagrees with your worldview. So you deny the evidence. And then along with that, you deny the authorities that are providing the evidence. Now, if you have a better hypothesis for why climate deniers deny the overwhelming scientific evidence, bring it on. It's not a delusion. It's just like the fox and the grapes. He can't reach the [00:01:30] Speaker 1: grapes, so he says the grapes are no good. Look, people do come to every debate with preconceptions, and you're right about that, of course. But the essence of science is extreme skepticism. We always ought to be asking ourselves, is my hypothesis true? I'm a member of both skeptic organizations, [00:01:47] Bill Nye: Mr. Carlson, and this is, this is, uh, climate change denial is denial. The evidence is overwhelming. Don't get me wrong. I love you as a person more than life itself, but the evidence for over, for climate change is overwhelming. So we are looking for an explanation of why you guys are having so much [00:02:05] Speaker 1: trouble with it. So then before the name calling begins and before you try to end the conversation, let's start it by asking what exactly you mean. Now, I think most people are open to the idea that the climate is changing. It has always changed, by the way, as you know. It's the rate, Mr. Carlson. It's the rate of such a concern. The core question, from what I can tell, is why the change? Is it part of the endless cycle of climate change, or is human activity causing it? That seems to be the debate to me, and it seems an open question, not a settled question, to what degree human activity is causing [00:02:36] Bill Nye: that? Is that not an open question? It's not an open question. It's a settled question. Human activity is causing climate change. To what degree? To a degree that it's, that it's a very serious problem in the next few decades. No, no, but wait, stop, stop, stop. Wait, no, you said it's a settled point, [00:02:50] Speaker 1: and I'm asking a very precise question. Yeah, in the science community, it's a settled point. Okay, then if you'll, if you'll elucidate for me, I'd be grateful. To what degree is climate change caused by human activities? 100% of climate change is caused by human activity? Is it 74.3%? It's settled science. Please tell us to what degree human activity is responsible. [00:03:09] Bill Nye: So the word degree is a word that you chose, but the speed that climate change is happening is caused by humans. Instead of happening on time scales of millions of years, or let's say 15,000 years, it's happening on a time scale of decades, and now years. Now, you know, I offered… [00:03:28] Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, but hold on, hold on, but… [00:03:31] Speaker ?: No, no. [00:03:31] Speaker 1: I mean, to what extent is human activity responsible for speeding that up? I mean, please be more precise than you're being. [00:03:36] Bill Nye: 100%, if that's the number you want. Humans are causing it to happen catastrophically fast. [00:03:42] Speaker 1: Okay, so at what rate would it have changed without human activity? And you look annoyed that I'm asking these questions, but they're very basic questions. [00:03:47] Bill Nye: Okay, so basically, the cycles of climate change, the last ice age we had was tens of thousands of years ago. So bear in mind that in ancient dinosaur days, there was more carbon dioxide, the world was warmer than it is now. There was an inland sea in what is now Wyoming, and I understand you're a member of Congress from Colorado, used to be underwater, and you go to Dinosaur National Online, you can see it. Okay. But that's millions of years ago. The problem is… You just said it was tens of thousands. That was the ice age. The rate. The rate is the problem. Now, here's the thing, half the people in the world live on sea coasts. As we get the ocean a little bit warmer, the ocean's going to expand, and people live on the sea coast are going to be displaced. But you're not answering my question. No, I'm talking about the speed of climate change. [00:04:36] Speaker 1: Yes, I am. I'm talking about the speed of climate change. And I'm asking you a simple question. Hold on. I'm asking you a simple question about the rate of climate change. So the rate… You said that it would be happening, but that rate has accelerated because of human activity. And I'm asking very simply… [00:04:50] Bill Nye: The word accelerated is an understatement. It's happening extraordinarily fast. [00:04:54] Speaker 1: I'm asking you a simple question, and because the science is settled, I hope you can answer it in simple terms, which is, without human activity, how long would it have taken for us to reach this level of warmth in our climate? [00:05:08] Bill Nye: It's not clear that it would have happened. In other words, humans have changed the climate so drastically that we have almost certainly avoided another ice age. There would have been another ice age. It ain't going to happen because of you and me. So the sooner we get to work on this problem… [00:05:23] Speaker 1: When would it have happened? When would the next ice age have happened? Yeah. Is that your question? I'm saying, without human activity, what would the… What would the process… Look, here's the point that I hope our viewers can understand. I'm not in any way denying that the climate is changing. I'm utterly open to the possibility that the change is caused by man's activity. I'm merely calling into question your claim that all of this is settled, that we know precisely what is happening and why, and that anyone who asked pointed questions about it is a denier and ought to be imprisoned or shouted off the stage. [00:05:55] Bill Nye: No, that was your word. That's… you guys… that's not my… that's not my claim. And I really… [00:05:59] Speaker 1: Would you like me to… would you like me to read your quote? That people who disagree with you ought to potentially go to jail? You said that. [00:06:04] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:06:04] Bill Nye: I'm not sure that's exactly what I said, Mr. Carson. We can talk about that shortly, but… [00:06:11] Speaker 1: Is it appropriate to jail the guys from Enron? Was it appropriate to jail the people of the cigarette industry who promised it wasn't addictive, etc.? Look, my only point is, shouldn't we be encouraging people to ask honest questions, which I am doing, and you don't seem to have the answers to those questions. [00:06:25] Bill Nye: Okay, I got to disagree with you. I claim I do have the answers. Okay. Okay? So, let me ask you this. Why aren't you concerned about it? Don't you have four children? [00:06:34] Speaker 1: Why aren't you concerned about climate change? I am concerned. That's why I'm having you on. Look, you don't reach correct conclusions in science or politics or any other field unless you can ask honest answers without being shouted down by people like you. [00:06:45] Bill Nye: I don't think you meant ask, but I know what you mean. [00:06:48] Speaker 1: So, what answer do you want to ask? No, I do mean ask. I do mean I have a… I want to know what would happen without human activity. The climate change… no, it's a simple question. The climate is always changing. You've conceded that. You're saying that human activity has increased the speed… Yeah. …increases the speed of that change. And my point is, what would the climate look like right now without human activity? It would have looked like it did in 1750. [00:07:14] Bill Nye: Britain would not be very well suited to growing… It would not have changed during that period. Yes. Britain would not be very well suited to growing grapes as it is today. French winemakers would not be buying land to the north as they are now. People who plan to run ski resorts would still be able to do it in Europe. And so the climate change and the parasites… [00:07:35] Speaker 1: You're using the language of politics. Look, you're not a scientist. They're not the language of politics. You're not a scientist as you know. You're a popularizer. I'm using the language of economics. [00:07:43] Bill Nye: So you asked what it would be like without human effect. [00:07:48] Speaker 1: If you prevent people from having an honest conversation, you're doing a grave disservice to science. Don't you think that? [00:07:53] Bill Nye: So you asked how long it would be before… What would the climate be like if humans weren't involved right now? Is that right? [00:08:02] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, that's exactly right. At what point would it have changed? And I'm just saying you don't actually know because it's unknowable. So why aren't you open to questions? [00:08:11] Bill Nye: This is how long it takes you to interrupt me. It takes you quite a bit less than six seconds. So the climate would be like it was in 1750. And the economics would be that you could not grow wine-worthy grapes in Britain as you can today because the climate is changing. The use of pesticides in the Midwest would not be increasing because the parasites are showing up sooner or the pests are showing up sooner and hanging around longer. [00:08:37] Speaker 1: I think that's probably all true. [00:08:40] Bill Nye: The forest in Wyoming would not be overwhelmed by pine bark beetles as it is because of climate change. That's how the world would be different if it weren't for humans. [00:08:48] Speaker 1: Do you pretend that you know but you don't know and you believe people who ask you questions? I really have to disagree with you. I spent a lot of time with this topic. I'm open-minded. You are not. And we're out of time, unfortunately. Thank you for joining us. [00:08:59] Bill Nye: You guys are the mainstream media. And I can tell you why they're leaks. Because the president has created two factions in his administration. They don't like each other. So they leak. It's not from the outside. It's from the inside. Carry on, Mr. Carlson. I'm sure we will cross paths again. [00:09:17] Speaker 1: That's a very ominous thing to say. I don't know what it means, but come back anytime.