Trump names Stephen Miller as new White House chief of staff after midterm losses

[0:10] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington. We begin with breaking news [0:15] and a seismic shakeup inside the Trump White House that sets the stage for a major confrontation [0:21] between the president and Democrats, who are about to take control of both houses of Congress. [0:26] The president announcing on social media this afternoon that his current chief of staff, [0:31] Susie Wiles, is being replaced by his longtime ally and MAGA firebrand, Stephen Miller. [0:36] A White House official telling NBC News Wiles gave her resignation last night. [0:41] She posted on social media this afternoon that today is her last day. [0:45] While departing the White House for Florida, the president was asked about the shakeup and said [0:49] it was time to make a change. Stephen Miller will be the new chief of staff, [0:55] and Susie's going to go over to the political operation. [0:58] What do you want? [1:00] Stephen Miller's going to get ready to run things well. I wanted to make a change. [1:04] I think Susie's done a very good job, great job, but I just wanted to make it. Stephen's been great, [1:12] and we've got to make moves. Sometimes in life you have to make moves. Stephen's been with me from [1:20] beginning. He gets it very good politically, and he's a very good man. He'll do a great job, [1:25] great manager. [1:26] But it was just a few weeks ago when President Trump said there was zero chance [1:31] he would replace Wiles. Listen. [1:48] Democratic leaders fresh off their landslide victory in the midterms are now facing the [1:54] possibility of a collision course with the Stephen Miller, who has pushed some of the [1:59] administration's most hardline policies. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer writing on social [2:04] media, quote, Trump couldn't have made a worse choice. Our Democratic majorities will fight [2:09] him every step of the way. While House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries posted, quote, Stephen [2:14] Miller is a dangerous xenophobe and reckless extremist. Fire him today. Joining me now to [2:20] discuss all of this breaking news is our team of reporters, NBC News Senior White House [2:24] Correspondent Gabe Gutierrez in West Palm Beach, Florida. With me on set, NBC News Senior Homeland [2:30] Security Correspondent Julia Ainslie and NBC News Senior Congressional Reporter Scott Wong. [2:35] NBC News Senior National Political Reporter Sahil Kapoor is at the big board. Thanks to all of you [2:40] for starting us off. Gabe, let me go to you first. What are your sources telling you about what's [2:44] behind this decision? Well, Chris, and a source familiar with Susie Wiles' thinking tells me that [2:49] the decision to do this actually came after the midterm, certainly with Republicans suffering that [2:56] sweeping election defeat. It appears that, you know, Susie Wiles, the chief of staff, the longest [3:01] serving chief of staff for President Trump, decided that, you know, she wanted to offer up her [3:07] resignation. And the context is important here, Chris, and she's had a very, you know, difficult year [3:12] earlier this year. She had revealed her cancer diagnosis. It was just several months ago in September [3:17] that she said she was cancer free. And so she made the decision just within the last few days [3:25] to offer up her resignation and gave that resignation to the president late last night. Now, [3:32] a lot of questions about where the administration moves from here. You mentioned Stephen Miller, [3:36] of course, a lightning rod within this administration and one of the president's longest serving [3:41] aides, the architect of his immigration policy. And he's made a lot of enemies, both on Capitol [3:47] Hill and really throughout Washington. But he is seen by the president as an extremely effective [3:53] leader. And it should be seen as a sign of the president doubling down on some of the policies [3:58] which, you know, have received a lot of backlash. Of course, the ice raids, the mass deportations, [4:05] that was largely thanks to Stephen Miller and the president moving in that direction, choosing him [4:12] to be his next chief of staff should be, you know, really seen as perhaps, you know, not just doubling [4:18] down on this. But this idea that it'd be more conciliatory towards Democrats, clearly this is [4:23] a sign of just the opposite, that he is gearing up for a potentially contentious last two years [4:29] of his second term, Christy. Well, Gabe, you know, it's interesting because President Trump has said [4:34] that, yes, he will work with Democrats. He's also said he has the power of the veto. But what does this [4:40] signal about the possibility that there could be some bipartisan legislation over the next two years? [4:45] Well, look, as I mentioned, Kristen, Stephen Miller, he was a longtime legislative aide on Capitol Hill. [4:55] He certainly knows the legislative process. But at the same time, he has made a lot of enemies there, [5:00] not just, you know, within the Democratic Party, but also he's rubbed a lot of people within the [5:03] Republican Party the wrong way. Just ask Tom Tillis, the outgoing senator from North Carolina. [5:10] So it's unclear how willing he will be to compromise with Democrats here. It's certainly at its face, [5:15] not the choice you would think of, of somebody who would be willing to compromise here in these [5:21] final two years of his administration. And could there be other shakeups, Gabe? [5:26] What are you watching? Well, look, certainly, you know, there's been a lot of discussion over the [5:30] past few days about Defense Secretary Pete Hexeth. The president is still publicly defending [5:38] Pete Hexeth, saying he's doing a good job, but there are increasing calls on Capitol Hill among [5:44] Democrats calling for his impeachment among some Republicans, of course, Thomas Massey, but also [5:49] James Comer suggesting that he has a lot of questions for Pete Hexeth as well, with the potential [5:56] over the next few days for this impeachment process to potentially play out on Capitol Hill [6:03] as early as next week. So that is probably the most obvious case for a potential shakeup within [6:10] the administration. But it's still early. These midterm, this sweeping election defeat is still [6:17] sinking in within the administration. And certainly with Stephen Miller, it could be possible that within [6:22] the White House, there could be, you know, a changing of staff and going in a different direction. [6:28] The president, in his comments to reporters just a short time ago, saying that he wanted to go in a [6:34] different direction. So it's something that we'll be watching in the coming days and weeks, Kristen. [6:38] Yeah, it will be fascinating to watch those relationships unfold. Gabe Gutierrez, thank you so [6:43] much. Julia Scott, let me turn to you. And Julia, I'll start with you. Talk a little bit about the role [6:49] that Stephen Miller has played inside the administration, particularly overseeing the president's [6:55] immigration and deportation policies. [6:57] That's right. I've been covering Stephen Miller and his policies and his thinking for a long time. [7:01] He first got into Trump's orbit in 2015 when he was working for then-Senator Jeff Sessions [7:06] on some very right-of-center immigration policies that at the time were seen as something that would [7:12] never go through. But it caught the president's ear, and he got to do that after Sessions, [7:16] who was the first sitting senator to endorse Trump. And he was behind things like the family separation [7:20] policy in 2018 that systematically separated over 5,000 families at the borders, behind the first [7:26] travel ban. Things that he was telling Trump, these will be politically advantageous to you if you [7:32] continue to push forward. Flash forward to just before the 2024 election, Stephen Miller said in [7:39] the most blanket Stephen Miller statement I've ever heard that really encapsulate him. He stood in front [7:43] of a roaring crowd at Madison Square Garden and said, America is for Americans and Americans only. [7:48] And that is something the White House actually repeated today on social media just two hours [7:53] before he was named chief of staff. He, of course, is behind the high deportation numbers. And even as [8:00] deputy chief of staff, this position that he's held in this administration, he's continued to have [8:04] daily calls with the leaders of DHS, ICE, and Border Patrol to tell them to do more, get numbers higher. [8:10] People I talk to at DHS say basically he's impossible to please because he wants numbers that are so high, [8:15] they're just not realistic. And they say that if they do have a problem with it, or if there's [8:21] something they want to get to the president, they always know Stephen Miller is the closest [8:25] to the presidency. I know that's something that you've tracked as you've gotten to know, [8:29] as you covered President Trump, that Miller, love him or hate him, people might disagree with him, [8:34] but he is so close to this president. And the president has listened to him much longer than [8:38] he's listened to many of his other advisors. It's such an important point, Scott Wong. He's been with [8:43] the president since the very beginning. And this all is developing as Democrats are just starting [8:48] to map out how they plan to govern. I want to play a little bit of what we heard from [8:52] now minority leader Chuck Schumer and get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. [8:57] We still have a big job to do. Yes, we have found the right issues, cost, chaos, and corruption. [9:03] But I will tell you this, if we don't deliver for the American people, and they think we're just like [9:10] what Trump has done, we're gone. Our enemy is not each other. Our enemy is Donald Trump and the [9:17] Republican senators who just go along with all the SH, I'm not allowed to say it on the show, [9:23] that he does. That's the focus. The focus is unity. It's all of us talking out of the same, [9:30] you know, hymn book, so to speak, and beating Trump, not fighting each other. [9:36] Scott, how does the appointment of Stephen Miller fit into Democrats' broader goal of trying to [9:44] actually get results? Right. Democrats say they want to hold Trump accountable, but also work with [9:50] Trump on the issues that they think this entire midterm election was about, which was affordability, [9:56] lowering the cost of living. I think this bodes very poorly for Democrats being able to work with [10:03] the White House on bipartisan issues like affordability. Stephen Miller's appointment is [10:10] really a signaling of doubling down on the existing Trump policies like, you know, immigration, mass [10:17] deportation. This is sort of in the opposite of direction of what we saw after the 1994, you know, [10:24] Republican Revolution, Bill Clinton reaching across the aisle to Newt Gingrich. They had picked up an [10:29] enormous amount of seats. They took back the majority. Those two men, Gingrich and Clinton, [10:35] worked together on welfare reform. I think we're going to see something very different than post-1994. [10:42] What a great historical reference point to think about as we watch these developments unfold. [10:47] Julia, let me ask you, do you think we could see this administration or Stephen Miller, who will now [10:53] oversee the entire domestic portfolio of this president? Could they start to pull back on some [10:59] of their deportation policies that have been sharply criticized as overreach? Well, I'll preview a little [11:05] reporting that we have coming up on NBC News in just a few hours, really. And that is that Miller has told [11:11] people, don't slow down. In fact, they say they still have time. They have two years left in this White [11:17] House. Nothing is changing. In fact, you can even look at the spending. ICE just renewed this week [11:22] their charter plane contract for a billion dollars to keep the same pace of deportations. They arrested [11:29] 50,000 people in October. That's a record high they set in July, and they've continued to keep for [11:34] four months. They want that again. ICE officers on the street have not heard a word about changing [11:40] anything despite the midterms. And as you look at some of the polling, it shows a lot of people, [11:45] even Latinos who wanted a quieter border, think that this went too far. As far as working together, [11:51] what's really confusing is that Trump has said three times in second terms, he's willing to work [11:56] with Democrats on immigration reform. But then this move today really throws a lot of that into [12:00] question. It sure does. Well, it's just extraordinary to hear Julia's reporting, Scott. And if you look at [12:06] what happened on Tuesday night, so many of the Latino voters who helped get President Trump elected in [12:11] 2024, left the Republican Party and moved over to vote for Democrats. Could this move of appointing [12:19] Stephen Miller to this role actually alienate some of those voters? I think it could. I was down in [12:25] Miami-Dade County with Hakeem Jeffries, stumping for candidates down there in Florida just a couple [12:31] of weeks ago. And I talked to some Trump supporters, Hispanic, Latino voters who said exactly that. [12:37] They were very disappointed in how Trump has sort of, you know, prosecuted this mass deportation [12:44] plan. They said he promised to go after criminals and he was deporting, you know, breaking up families. [12:51] Obviously, we saw the deaths of two American citizens earlier this year. They are very upset [12:56] and they voted with the Democrats. I think if you are somebody like Mario Diaz-Balart in Miami-Dade County, [13:03] uh, Maria Elvira Salazar, if they survive their election and they're up for reelection in two years, [13:09] uh, I think they're going to be very upset with the appointment of Stephen Miller. [13:13] And Julia, just quickly, I mean, Stephen Miller himself, he's not necessarily taking into account [13:19] all of these politics. For him, this is part of his core belief. I mean, he, he, again, goes back to 2015 [13:26] with President Trump. As you say, this is really what shapes him. [13:30] Yeah, it's very different whether it is your dogma, right? Whether it's what you believe or whether [13:35] it's what you believe is politically the best move. The president, I often get the feeling, [13:40] digs in on immigration at times where he might not be winning on other things because he thinks [13:44] it's politically the best move. But everything I've seen from Stephen Miller, even if you go back to [13:48] what he did as a college student, really shows that this is someone who believes at his core [13:53] that what I said, America is for Americans and Americans only. And he will really strive to try to [13:59] throw the country back into a time where we were a much more homogenous looking population. [14:06] And he's not been shy about any of those views. All right, Julia and Scott, thank you so much for [14:10] your fantastic reporting and context around this. We really appreciate it. Sahil, let me turn [14:15] to you now. So the shakeup comes as Democrats prepare to take over the House and the Senate. [14:22] Talk about how you see some of their biggest challenges as they try to execute their agenda. [14:27] Well, Kristen, House Democrats are about to embark upon quite an adventure because look at this, [14:31] they're winning this election beyond their wildest dreams. They've already cracked 250 House seats [14:36] officially. Our estimates put them on pace to get 259, which, as you can see here, would be the [14:40] largest House majority going all the way back to 1990, before the dawn of modern polarization. [14:46] By contrast, 2014 was a high watermark for the Republicans. That ended up with 247 seats on their [14:52] side. They've already exceeded that. Now, with a cushion like this means Hakeem Jeffries is going [14:58] to be Speaker of the House. He's going to have plenty of votes to spare. His critics can disabuse [15:01] themselves of the notion that they're going to find an alternative to him. But it also comes with [15:06] challenges because the caucus is going to be very, very diverse, ideologically and biographically. [15:11] These are some of the Democrats who won states that Trump carried by double digits in 2024. [15:16] If you look at some of these names, you can be forgiven for not recognizing them because even close [15:20] political observers, even Democratic leaders did not expect some of these people to be able to pull [15:25] off an election. For instance, Texas 9th District. How many folks heard of Leticia Gutierrez? She just [15:31] won by 15 points in a district that Trump carried by 20 points in 2024. Over here in North Carolina's [15:38] 9th District, Richard Ojeda. Again, not a familiar name. He just took down Rich Hudson, the chair of the [15:44] NRCC whose job it was to protect the House majority. He could not even protect his own seat. [15:47] So Democrats are going to have this kind of a caucus to navigate in addition to a bunch of [15:54] left-leaning candidates and Democratic socialists who have also gotten elected. This is going to be [15:58] quite the kaleidoscope for Hakeem Jeffries to navigate if he wants to get something done and [16:02] keep these folks on his side. It certainly is. It's a great way to put it, a kaleidoscope. So [16:07] you're looking at the House. It's a whole different set of challenges on the Senate side, right? [16:10] Absolutely it is. The Senate Democratic Caucus so far includes these 10 incoming members. Many of them [16:16] flipped Republican seats. Some of them held on to open Democratic seats. And this too represents the [16:22] ideological diversity of the Senate Democratic Caucus. You've got some senators-elect like [16:27] Abdul El-Sayed and Troy Jackson who campaigned on a progressive platform of Medicare for All. [16:31] You've got others like Annie Andrews in South Carolina and Josh Turek in Iowa who campaigned as [16:37] moderates and centrists in red states and won. Those are going to have a very different vision [16:42] of how to go forward than these senators. So it's going to be an open question of how [16:47] Senator Chuck Schumer, who is probably going to be the next majority leader, navigates these [16:52] divisions in his own conference and gets to 60 votes in the Senate, which is going to require [16:56] some Republican support. And the big question, Kristen, as we've been talking about so far, [17:00] does President Trump have any desire to work with the Democratic House and Senate? Because he's not [17:05] shown that in the last two years. And his appointment of Stephen Miller as chief of staff tells us these [17:09] next two years could be a bare-knuckle political brawl without much cooperation. [17:13] Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to watch it all unfold. Sahil Kapoor, [17:17] thank you so much for that great breakdown. We really appreciate it. Well, coming up, [17:21] we'll have much more on the breaking news out of the White House with President Trump naming [17:25] Stephen Miller as his new chief of staff, including what it means for the big question facing Democrats. [17:31] How will they govern? We'll speak with a Democrat who just flipped one of this cycle's most [17:35] competitive House districts. Plus, it's not just control of Congress in Washington. [17:40] Democrats are about to take over a majority of the statehouse chambers and governorships for the [17:44] first time in years. We'll dig into the numbers and the impact. Stay with us. You're watching [17:49] Meet the Press Now.