Trump ‘Doesn’t Understand What Is At Stake In Ukraine’ — John Bolton

[0:00] There are some people describing Donald Trump as now a Russian asset supporting [0:05] President Putin against Ukraine. Is it as simple as that? [0:10] Well, I think Vladimir Lenin actually had the better description. He has called people like [0:16] this useful idiots. Trump really doesn't understand what's at stake in Ukraine. And [0:22] in the past several weeks, he has been focused not on geopolitics, but on domestic American [0:29] politics. He's in deep trouble. [0:31] In the past week, the Trump administration has moved to buy Russian oil, softened sanctions [0:36] in spite of the passage of the Lindsey Graham Act, and deemed Ukrainian attacks on Russian [0:42] energy infrastructure to be a disgrace. It's once again exploited or shown that there is [0:49] a clear rift between most of the members of NATO and those in Europe and the U.S. administration [0:56] in its position over Ukraine and Russia. President Zelensky said it's a pity that Ukraine has [1:03] lost a partner. So let's speak to Ambassador John Bolton, the former U.S. National Security [1:10] Advisor to President Trump during the first administration. Hello to you. [1:15] Good morning. How are you? [1:17] I'm good. Good to speak to you again. What do you make of this? There are some people describing [1:23] Donald Trump as now a Russian asset supporting President Putin against Ukraine. Is it as simple [1:31] as that? Well, I think Vladimir Lenin actually had the better description. He has called people [1:38] like this useful idiots. Trump really doesn't understand what's at stake in Ukraine. And in [1:44] the past several weeks, he has been focused not on geopolitics, but on domestic American politics. [1:52] He's in deep trouble. The Republicans are facing a referendum on the Trump administration. People [1:58] are unhappy. There are going to be substantial Republican losses. Inflation is one of the factors [2:05] working against Republican candidates. Diesel fuel, gasoline are factors in that. And what Trump [2:12] is trying to do is take steps to say domestically, I'm going to be able to bring down oil prices. Now, [2:19] none of what he's doing with Russia will do that. But for Trump, it's announcing the deal. It's not [2:24] necessarily the results of it. But the international effect of what he's doing is to give Russia an [2:30] enormous favor to call in at some point, because Putin, by agreeing to this deal and other things, [2:37] has given Trump a favor when Trump needs it at home. So it's a very disturbing development all [2:42] the way around. Do you think it could actually benefit Donald Trump politically at home? [2:49] No, I think people understand there's really nothing substantive in a lot of what he's saying [2:55] here. I take the diesel fuel deal, for example. The first segment that he purchased with great fanfare [3:03] was 300,000 tons of diesel. That's less than 60 percent of the average daily American consumption [3:10] of diesel. So, you know, let's say two thirds of a day out of 365 days a year. That's an absolutely [3:17] minimal price increase. And by the way, the diesel fuel isn't here or there. Now, people see the prices [3:22] they pay every day. Those prices are not coming down. [3:26] Trump has said in the past that he admires Putin, that he regards him as someone who's easier to deal [3:35] with than Zelensky. Is there anything in the sort of MAGA political paybook, which agrees with Trump [3:43] on that, that actually shares his sort of strongman view of the world and dealing pretty roughly with [3:52] any smaller powers that get in the way? Well, there are some, but they don't think about it very much [3:57] because they don't think about international affairs. The real problem is that Trump sees [4:01] international relations as being essentially entirely embedded in the personal relationships [4:07] of their leaders. So if he and Vladimir Putin are good friends, he thinks U.S.-Russia state-to-state [4:13] relations are good. That's not correct for many reasons, most importantly, because Vladimir Putin [4:20] doesn't see Trump as a friend. He sees him as an easy mark. And every time Trump, in a very needy way, [4:26] comes to Putin to ask for this diesel deal or something like that, Putin's more than happy [4:32] to give it to him and put it in his pocket to call in later. What would you say to Europeans [4:38] who are saying, you know, it's over, we can't any longer regard the United States [4:45] as our most important ally? People who say that in Europe are giving Donald Trump exactly what he [4:52] wants. That is the kind of talk that gives him the excuse to say, well, the Europeans don't want [4:58] us. We'll just withdraw from NATO. To take the Ukraine case as one example, there is overwhelming [5:05] support in the Republican Party to aid Ukraine against the Russian aggression. It's Trump and his [5:12] ability to intimidate people that's given the impression that somehow it's different. I think once [5:18] we get past November the 3rd, if the results are as bad for Republicans as they currently seem to be, [5:24] more and more people will break from Trump. Take Lindsey Graham's sister, who would not be the [5:29] Republican candidate for Senate in South Carolina if it weren't for Trump. She said yesterday she [5:36] disagreed with his failure to put in place the sanctions that were in her brother's bill passed [5:43] posthumously. I think this is the indicator that the ground is breaking under Trump's feet [5:48] politically. I don't know what effect it'll have in the last two years, not necessarily good, but it [5:53] shows that Trump's view on many, many things, NATO and Ukraine included, is very different from where [6:00] the base of the Republican Party really is. And do you think that will make a practical difference? [6:05] Because, you know, we have heard President Zelensky, you know, asking for, I know the United States has done [6:12] a great deal, but asking for a lot more support from the U.S. [6:16] Well, I think Republicans in Congress will be pushing for that. I think Trump knows if the Democrats take control [6:22] of the House of Representatives, which seems almost certain, every House committee will spend two years [6:28] investigating every aspect of his administration that they can. Trump will need a lot of help from [6:34] Republicans, not that he's given much to them over the years. But I think that's when they can begin [6:40] to call in their efforts and hopefully reinforce those. And there are some in the administration [6:47] who believe in supporting Ukraine, reinforce those and maybe ameliorate the situation somewhat. [6:53] If there was a peace deal, a so-called peace deal, on Russia's terms, [7:01] with Russia taking some of the territory of Ukraine, what would be the consequences? Why would [7:10] that matter to the United States? Because it would say to the Russians, and by the way, [7:15] to the Chinese and others, that at least in the Trump administration, America doesn't have the resolve [7:21] to resist aggression that threatens American interest in Europe. When peace and stability break [7:27] down in Europe, that adversely affects the United States. I don't think Trump understands that, [7:32] but I think a lot of other people in the United States still do. I think that that kind of deal [7:38] with Russia, in effect, would be surrender for Ukraine. Because remember, what Putin really wants [7:43] here is not a few more square miles of Ukrainian territory. He wants Ukraine back in the Russian [7:50] empire. That's what he's trying to recreate. He has a long-term goal, and he's playing a long-term game. [7:56] And finally, Ambassador Bolton, on a lighter note, we've seen the rapid departure of yet another [8:04] member of the administration, Katie Zakaria, as press secretary after barely a working week [8:12] in the job. Do you have any sympathy for her? Well, look, I think anybody who joins the Trump [8:18] administration at this point has more than enough warning that they're likely to suffer the same kind [8:24] of outcome. A political commentator here in the U.S. said a decade ago, everything Trump touches dies, [8:31] and that's pretty close to being accurate. So I don't see a great rush of people, responsible people [8:36] anyway, looking to get into his administration. I think after November 3rd, our mid-term election, [8:42] you're going to see many more people leaving. [8:45] That was Ambassador Bolton. Thank you very much indeed for joining us from Washington. [8:49] Thanks for having me.