Trump administration says Iran war reaching ‘time of ambiguity’ as military strikes escalate

[0:00] as the U.S. and Iran inch closer to all-out war again, [0:04] with the U.S. death toll rising over the weekend. [0:07] Amid nine straight days of U.S. strikes, [0:09] sending gas prices back to the $4 mark. [0:13] During the weekend, the Pentagon releasing new video [0:15] of its continued military assault, [0:18] targeting coastal surveillance sites [0:20] in an effort to degrade Iran's ability [0:22] to disrupt traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. [0:26] Iran now accusing the U.S. of hitting more civilian infrastructure, [0:30] with state media releasing these images [0:32] of what appear to show damage [0:35] to a desalinization plant in southern Iran. [0:38] Now, NBC cannot determine when or where this video was shot, [0:43] but NBC has identified stunning video taken over the weekend [0:46] showing the moment an Iranian missile [0:49] hit a U.S. air base in Jordan. [0:52] You can clearly see the fireball explosion from that attack. [1:08] The Pentagon today releasing the names [1:10] of two soldiers killed in the attack, [1:13] First Lieutenant Tyler James Fian [1:15] and Private Isabella Gonzalez. [1:18] The Pentagon also announcing it recovered unidentified remains [1:21] while searching for an American service member [1:24] reported missing after the strike. [1:27] And in a separate incident in Iraq, [1:28] a U.S. service member was killed [1:30] during a controlled detonation of a downed Iranian drone. [1:34] Now, this brings the U.S. death toll as a result of the war to 17. [1:39] In a post on social media today, [1:42] President Trump lashing out at Iran over those troops being killed, [1:46] writing, quote, [1:47] every time Iran kills an American soldier, [1:50] they will pay for that killing many times over. [1:53] It echoes the president's comments yesterday, [1:56] where he appeared to signal the military campaign [1:58] is not ending anytime soon. [2:01] Well, we feel very badly, but, you know, those great people, [2:06] those great patriots who are out there fighting [2:07] that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. [2:11] Iran has been very, very badly damaged. [2:14] They've lost everything almost militarily. [2:18] They've got very little left. [2:20] They've got some missiles. [2:21] They've got some drones. [2:22] They've got some manufacturing ability. [2:25] Not much. [2:26] We control the strait. [2:28] They don't control anything. [2:29] So we'll see what happens. [2:31] This is a far bigger job that we're doing. [2:34] We were doing a little job [2:35] at stopping them from having a certain capability. [2:38] Now we're just ending it. [2:40] So it's really not the same thing. [2:42] What we're doing now is we're ending [2:43] any chance where they can have a nuclear missile. [2:48] Despite the military escalation, [2:50] Secretary of State Marco Rubio [2:52] still leaving the door open to diplomacy. [2:56] I think we're always open to diplomacy. [2:57] It has to be real. [2:58] It has to be a deal that they're willing to live by. [3:00] Look, Iran a week ago was supposed to put out a statement [3:03] saying that the Straits of Hormuz would be open, [3:05] that they would no longer attack shipping. [3:07] And instead of doing that, they attacked three ships. [3:09] I think that was last Friday or Saturday. [3:11] So, I mean, their behavior has to change [3:14] in order for ours to change. [3:15] What I will say is that the United States [3:17] always remains open to a diplomatic solution. [3:19] We've tried multiple times with Iran, [3:21] and we'll continue to try. [3:22] If that door opens, we'll be happy to see it open. [3:26] But, right, and they continue to send signals [3:28] that they want to talk, that they want to negotiate. [3:31] But their behavior is what we're responding to. [3:33] And their behavior is they're launching missiles [3:35] and drones against ships, including tonight. [3:37] And as we noted, the escalating conflict [3:41] is pushing fuel prices back up. [3:43] The average cost of gas is now at $4 a gallon [3:46] for the first time in more than a month. [3:49] Joining me now is NBC News White House correspondent, [3:51] Monica Alba, NBC News Chief International Correspondent, [3:55] Keir Simmons, he's in Jordan. [3:57] And with me on set are NBC News [3:58] senior national security correspondent, [4:00] Courtney Kuby, and NBC News military analyst, [4:03] retired Colonel Steve Warren. [4:05] Welcome to all of you. [4:07] Monica, let me start with you. [4:09] What is the White House and the latest thinking [4:11] on Iran and its strategy to get back [4:13] to the negotiating table? [4:15] We heard a little bit of different language [4:16] from the president there when he talked about [4:18] acknowledging some of the capabilities Iran still has, [4:21] and he, of course, acknowledged the deaths of Americans. [4:23] Certainly, Kelly. [4:25] And the way that a senior administration official [4:27] described it to our team may be the best way [4:29] to sum this up, which is that this is a, quote, [4:32] time of ambiguity, where it is unclear [4:35] whether this escalation from a military sense [4:38] is going to produce what could be this alternative outcome [4:41] of getting to a negotiated situation [4:44] where there could be potentially still [4:46] some diplomatic solution, [4:48] which you did see Secretary Rubio nodding to there. [4:51] But President Trump very clearly sending a message today [4:54] on social media that there will continue [4:56] to be military action, especially in regards [5:00] to those fallen service members and acknowledging that. [5:04] So the question is, what could really change [5:06] or move things from the direction that we have seen, [5:09] which is to continue that escalation [5:11] that would get the parties back to the negotiating table [5:14] in any meaningful sense? [5:15] We are told by that senior official [5:16] that the talks behind the scenes do continue, [5:20] but it's really unclear, Kelly, [5:21] what they can actually produce at this point. [5:24] Monica, we saw the president recently dismiss the idea [5:26] that this is somehow a new normal. [5:29] But do you think the White House [5:30] would factor in economic fallout, [5:33] like prices for gas going up? [5:35] Is that something that might, again, [5:37] cause him to take a different turn? [5:39] I think so, and you can really assess that [5:42] based on how they acted [5:43] when they really celebrated the memorandum of understanding [5:47] and that signing ceremony that you saw [5:49] at the Palace of Versailles in June, [5:52] because the White House really took that [5:53] to try to tell the American people [5:55] that they should celebrate the fact [5:57] that now prices were going to come down. [5:59] And we did see that dip with the price of oil, [6:02] certainly after that, [6:03] that, of course, has now gone back up. [6:05] So it's really hard to imagine [6:06] that that isn't something that's being considered now [6:09] and isn't something that they're certainly [6:10] going to have to address. [6:12] And that should factor, we believe, [6:14] into the decision-making from what we understand [6:16] when we talk to White House officials, [6:18] even though President Trump on the record [6:20] was the one who said [6:21] that when he does make these decisions [6:23] about the negotiations with Iran, [6:25] that he doesn't factor in [6:27] Americans' personal financial decisions, [6:29] which, of course, kicked off a lot of controversy, Kelly. [6:32] Changing gears a little bit, [6:33] I want to get your take on something [6:35] that the president talked about, [6:36] and that is the new version of Air Force One. [6:38] It's got the new paid scheme. [6:40] This is the gifted plane from Qatar. [6:42] And he talked about the fact [6:43] that it will need some security upgrades, [6:46] even though it's only been in service [6:47] as a version of Air Force One [6:49] for a short amount of time. [6:51] What is happening with this, [6:53] and what are the next steps? [6:54] This was significant [6:56] because the president himself acknowledged [6:58] that this plane, [6:59] that this luxury jet [7:01] that had been retrofitted [7:02] to serve as Air Force One [7:04] does need additional enhancements and upgrades. [7:07] And now Caroline Leavitt, [7:08] the White House press secretary, [7:09] is confirming on the record [7:11] that that is going to take place [7:13] in the coming weeks, [7:14] though she does write in a statement [7:16] that the plane is perfectly safe [7:18] for the president's travels. [7:20] But they are going to look at that, [7:21] and it is likely going to take [7:22] approximately one month [7:23] to complete those enhancements. [7:25] And so during that time, Kelly, [7:27] we can expect the president [7:28] to be traveling on the older Air Force One, [7:31] the one that he did end up flying [7:32] back from Turkey to that airbase in the U.K. [7:35] before getting back on the new jet [7:37] to fly in the U.S. [7:39] So the question is when that will happen [7:41] and whether it will impact [7:43] his potential next foreign trip. [7:45] And it does raise questions about [7:47] should that plane have been in service at all? [7:49] What will it cost? [7:50] Taxpayers, much more to follow on that. [7:52] Thank you so much, Monica. [7:54] Keir, let me turn to you now. [7:55] You're in Jordan, [7:56] and that, of course, [7:57] is one of the countries [7:57] that Iran is targeting [7:59] as part of what is broadly [8:01] being called retaliatory strikes. [8:03] What is the mood like there? [8:05] And are people in the region [8:06] and specifically where you are [8:08] worried about how this could spiral [8:10] into even greater military conflict? [8:17] Well, I think people already feel [8:18] as if they are facing [8:20] a full-scale conflict here. [8:21] We had alarms again, [8:25] air raid alarms, air raid sirens, Kelly, [8:27] just in the past few hours here [8:29] in Amman, Jordan, [8:31] the capital of the country. [8:32] Those missiles, [8:34] according to the Jordanians, [8:37] three missiles were intercepted [8:39] to the east of the country. [8:40] But just another night [8:42] when the Iranians have fired [8:44] on this country. [8:45] And, of course, [8:45] it was a night like this [8:47] when those service men [8:49] and women were killed here. [8:52] And it just continues, [8:54] the bombardment, [8:55] no matter President Trump's [8:57] warnings to Iran [8:59] that it would face [9:01] exponentially more deaths [9:02] for every American soldier [9:05] that it killed, [9:07] the Iranians are doubling down. [9:09] It's not just here in Jordan. [9:10] It is in Kuwait [9:11] and in Bahrain [9:12] and across the region. [9:14] This is escalatory. [9:16] And the point is really, [9:17] I mean, [9:17] you call it an escalatory spiral. [9:20] It's hard to see [9:21] where the off-ramp is [9:23] for either side, honestly. [9:24] So Secretary Rubio says [9:26] diplomacy is still engaged. [9:28] We want to see that [9:29] as an option. [9:30] How difficult do you think [9:31] it is based on all [9:32] your reporting [9:33] to get the two sides [9:34] back to the table [9:35] in a constructive way? [9:40] I mean, [9:40] I think it's certainly possible. [9:42] The spokesperson [9:43] for Iran's foreign ministry [9:45] today said [9:46] talks are a possibility. [9:48] But then again, [9:50] just underscoring [9:51] how challenging it is [9:53] to talk to the Iranians [9:55] for the U.S. [9:56] The foreign minister, [9:57] Iraqi, [9:58] said in an interview [9:59] just over the weekend, [10:01] that he actually [10:02] currently doesn't have [10:03] direct face-to-face talks [10:05] with the key decision-maker [10:06] in Iran [10:07] that is the new [10:09] supreme leader. [10:10] So I think there's [10:12] a challenge in that respect. [10:13] And also that we have heard [10:15] from every facet [10:17] of the Iranian leadership [10:18] insisting that they [10:20] are continuing [10:22] to try to pursue [10:23] their goals, [10:25] including control [10:26] of the Strait of Hormuz, [10:27] for example. [10:27] So, yes, [10:29] there can be talks. [10:30] I think the question is [10:31] to what end? [10:33] Thank you so much, [10:34] Kier. [10:35] We'll go from Amman [10:36] to right here in the studio. [10:37] And Courtney, [10:38] let me start with you. [10:39] When you consider [10:40] the military capabilities [10:41] that remain for Iran, [10:43] the president, [10:44] I was a little surprised [10:45] that he did acknowledge [10:46] they have some missiles, [10:47] they have some capabilities. [10:48] What is left to target? [10:49] And does that targeting [10:50] from your reporting [10:52] look like it's [10:53] making any difference? [10:55] It's really hard to say [10:56] because when we look [10:58] at the statements [10:58] that are coming out [10:59] of U.S. Central Command, [11:00] it's been about 10 days [11:01] of strikes now. [11:01] They consistently talk [11:02] about sort of broad categories [11:04] of what the U.S. is going after, [11:05] things like coastal radar sites, [11:07] missile launch sites, [11:09] drone launching sites. [11:10] And we aren't getting [11:11] specificity about exactly [11:12] how many strikes [11:13] they're taking anymore [11:14] or the location. [11:15] Now, frequently, [11:16] they say that it is [11:17] in direct response [11:19] to Iran targeting [11:20] commercial shipping [11:20] in the Strait of Hormuz. [11:22] But we aren't hearing [11:23] as much about it [11:23] being along the coast [11:25] as we were initially. [11:26] And then just to add to that, [11:27] on Saturday, [11:28] CENTCOM specifically said [11:29] that they went after targets [11:31] that were responsible [11:32] for the attack [11:33] that killed those two U.S. soldiers [11:34] in Jordan, [11:35] injuring many more. [11:37] In fact, frankly, [11:37] we just, [11:38] in the last few moments, [11:39] we got on social media [11:40] that chief spokesperson [11:41] for the Pentagon [11:42] announced that there have been [11:43] nearly 100 Americans [11:45] injured over the last [11:47] nine or 10 days [11:49] since July 7th, [11:50] I think it was. [11:51] So that's dramatically higher [11:53] than what we had been hearing [11:54] over the weekend. [11:55] And we don't have any sense [11:57] of where those attacks [11:58] took place [11:58] or exactly the nature [12:00] of their injuries. [12:00] He does go on to say [12:02] that the majority of those [12:03] have been returned to duty. [12:04] But again, [12:05] there's a lot of opaqueness [12:08] and lack of transparency [12:09] about what exactly [12:10] is happening here. [12:10] Let's just live with that [12:11] for a second. [12:12] So we know 17 deaths [12:13] and now they're telling us [12:14] more than 100 American [12:15] service members [12:16] have suffered [12:16] some kind of injury. [12:18] And those that go back [12:19] to duty, [12:20] obviously it was a minor injury, [12:21] but that is a significant number. [12:23] And it could, [12:23] some of those, [12:24] remember some of the return [12:24] to duty could be [12:25] suspected traumatic brain injury [12:27] because there's like a protocol [12:28] where they'll watch them [12:29] for days or even weeks [12:30] and see if they start [12:31] to develop symptoms. [12:32] And that can ultimately lead [12:33] to, you know, [12:34] a serious ailment, [12:36] something that they can even [12:37] spend months, [12:38] if not years, [12:38] recovering from. [12:40] But yes, [12:40] it does appear [12:40] that the majority of them [12:41] have been returned to duty. [12:43] But again, [12:44] it just shows [12:44] we've been asking for days [12:45] about the exact number [12:47] of how many Americans [12:48] have been injured. [12:49] And now we don't even know [12:50] where all of these attacks [12:52] occurred or when. [12:54] Well, maybe your questions [12:54] help to prompt that. [12:55] Before I go to the colonel, [12:56] do you get a sense based, [12:58] again, [12:58] on the expertise [12:59] and reporting [13:00] you bring to the table here, [13:01] is there a perceived hole [13:04] in the U.S. ability [13:05] to protect forces [13:07] in the region? [13:07] Is that something [13:08] we're sort of seeing [13:10] based on the fact [13:11] that injuries are occurring? [13:12] Yes, absolutely. [13:13] So it's not a secret [13:15] that the U.S. military [13:16] has expended [13:16] a huge number [13:17] of their defenses. [13:19] So things like [13:20] the interceptors [13:21] that are launched [13:22] from a THAAD [13:23] or from a Patriot, [13:24] those are the ones [13:25] that are literally a missile, [13:26] they launch up [13:27] and they target [13:27] and they slam into [13:29] an incoming ballistic missile [13:30] or some other kind [13:31] of projectile, [13:32] in some cases, [13:32] a large drone, [13:33] and take them out. [13:34] Well, we know that [13:35] the military has expended [13:36] a huge number of those, [13:37] not just during this war, [13:39] but also during [13:40] the 12-day war [13:41] with Iran and Israel [13:43] last summer. [13:44] So it takes months [13:45] and years [13:46] to replace these inventories [13:47] and they simply [13:48] have not had the time [13:49] to do so. [13:50] Even with stepped-up [13:51] production efforts [13:52] by the defense industrial base [13:53] here in the United States, [13:54] they still are way behind [13:55] where they need to be. [13:57] And the question is, [13:58] are attacks like the one [13:59] that we saw in Jordan, [14:01] the realization [14:01] that the U.S. military [14:02] simply does not have [14:03] everything they need [14:04] to defend the people [14:05] who are there? [14:05] Keep in mind, [14:06] early on when this war [14:07] was starting [14:08] and even before it started, [14:09] the U.S. military [14:09] did pull a significant number [14:11] of people out of the region, [14:12] but there's still people there, [14:14] more than 50,000 of them [14:15] who could be in harm's way. [14:16] That's concerning information. [14:18] So, Colonel, [14:18] let me go to you. [14:19] You had a role [14:20] in Operation Inherent Resolve, [14:23] which was the mission [14:24] against ISIS [14:25] and as a spokesperson, [14:27] and I was reminded [14:28] of that today. [14:29] And it's very fitting [14:29] to ask you about this [14:30] because the Pentagon [14:32] is currently saying [14:33] some of these deaths [14:34] are associated [14:35] with that mission [14:36] and not what we commonly [14:38] think of as the Iran war. [14:40] you're a communicator [14:42] in the military [14:43] as well as having, [14:44] as a colonel, [14:45] you had real-life [14:46] world experience. [14:48] Does that make sense? [14:49] And are these still retaliatory [14:51] or is this part [14:53] of kind of a new offensive? [14:54] Sure. [14:54] Two largely different questions. [14:57] Yes. [14:57] Most likely, [14:59] the reason the Pentagon [15:00] has identified those [15:02] killed in Jordan [15:03] as part of Operation Inherent Resolve [15:05] is because that's what [15:06] they were there for [15:07] in the first place, right? [15:07] Those troops [15:08] may well have deployed [15:09] six or eight months ago [15:10] as part of that [15:11] operation [15:12] and so they're sort of [15:12] attached to that operation. [15:14] The Iranians don't care, right? [15:15] They don't care [15:16] what operation they're on. [15:17] They're just shooting [15:18] at anybody they can find, right? [15:20] So that's that. [15:21] To build on what Courtney said [15:23] regarding holes in our defenses, [15:26] you know, [15:26] the other important thing [15:27] to keep in mind, [15:28] and we have a saying [15:29] in the military, right? [15:29] The enemy gets a vote. [15:31] Yes. [15:31] And the Iranians have learned, right? [15:33] They are learning over time [15:34] how to attack American defenses, [15:38] whether it's different angles [15:39] of attack, [15:40] whether they bring [15:40] their missiles in [15:41] from a different location [15:42] or whether they use swarm attacks. [15:44] So in any defense, [15:45] there's always going to be [15:46] what we sometimes [15:47] in the army call leakers. [15:48] Something's going to leak through. [15:49] That's always a possibility. [15:50] And now that the Iranians [15:51] are able to refine [15:53] their offensive tactics, [15:55] we will have to now refine [15:57] our defensive tactics. [15:58] So we've heard [15:58] from the president obliterated, [16:00] but you're describing [16:01] an adaptive ability [16:02] to use what they have [16:04] to continue to be in the fight. [16:05] That's exactly right. [16:07] Every enemy learns, [16:08] every foe learns, [16:10] they adapt, [16:11] they improvise, [16:12] they figure out new ways [16:14] to deal with what they're facing. [16:15] And let's keep in mind, [16:17] the Iranians, [16:17] you know, [16:18] they refined IEDs [16:20] during the war in Iraq. [16:23] You know, [16:23] they created, you know, [16:25] new ways to attack [16:26] American soldiers, [16:28] and, you know, [16:28] they were partnering [16:29] with the Iraqis often. [16:30] And so they are, [16:32] they are experienced [16:33] at evolving the way they fight [16:36] to adapt to the way [16:37] the Americans fight. [16:38] There's another actor [16:39] from the region [16:40] that may be wanting [16:41] to engage here, [16:42] and that's the Houthis [16:43] who are talking about [16:44] wanting to stop Saudi Arabia [16:46] from using the Strait of Hormuz. [16:47] What is your sense [16:48] of how they would be involved in this? [16:50] And how much of a concern is it? [16:52] Well, the other thing [16:53] we have to think about [16:53] is what cards each, [16:55] everybody has to play, right? [16:57] The Americans, [16:58] we have more cards we can play. [16:59] And you've heard [16:59] some of that being talked about, [17:01] whether it's an assault on, [17:02] I know, on an island somewhere, [17:04] whether it's, you know, [17:05] intensified strikes [17:06] deeper into Iran. [17:08] Well, the Iranians [17:09] have cards they can play as well. [17:11] And one of those cards [17:11] is the Houthi card, right? [17:13] So they can encourage [17:14] the Houthis to shut down. [17:16] Like a force multiplier for that. [17:17] It's like a force multiplier. [17:18] They're a proxy force, [17:19] a term we've used often. [17:20] So the Iranians [17:21] can now energize the Houthis [17:23] to begin creating [17:24] a second set of problems for us. [17:27] Additional economic hardship, [17:29] you know, [17:30] lots of things [17:31] the Houthis can do [17:32] in the Bab al-Mandeb straits, [17:35] which is another choke point. [17:37] And oh, by the way, [17:38] let's not forget [17:38] the Houthis have the capability [17:40] to range even the Suez Canal. [17:42] Yeah. [17:42] And I can tell [17:43] from your body language, [17:44] Courtney, [17:44] that you are checking [17:45] the latest from your sources. [17:46] Yeah, we just found out [17:48] about 15 minutes ago [17:49] that the U.S. started [17:50] another round of strikes [17:51] against Iran. [17:52] So I mean, what's really... [17:52] Day 10 now. [17:53] This is day 10, yeah. [17:54] So what's really telling is [17:55] every day now [17:56] when they announce [17:57] that they're doing these strikes, [17:58] I always look to see [17:58] exactly what the justification [18:00] or the reason is. [18:01] And this is another one [18:02] where CENTCOM is saying [18:03] that it's to degrade [18:04] Iran's military capabilities [18:06] to attack commercial shipping [18:07] in the Strait of Hormuz. [18:08] So unlike over the weekend [18:09] where they said [18:10] it was not only [18:10] to go after those assets [18:13] that were attacking [18:13] commercial shipping, [18:14] it was also then [18:16] about retaliation [18:17] for the U.S. military service members [18:19] who were injured and killed. [18:20] Now this seems to be back to [18:21] specifically for the Strait of Hormuz. [18:23] We'll see how it continues [18:23] to evolve though. [18:24] Kelly, this is an example [18:25] of miscalculations [18:27] that begin to skid [18:28] out of control, right? [18:29] The Iranians miscalculated, [18:31] the initial miscalculation [18:32] was to attack [18:33] that commercial shipping [18:34] as it was going [18:35] through the Straits. [18:36] We then reacted [18:37] as you would expect we would. [18:39] I don't know [18:40] that we calculated [18:40] how hard the Iranians [18:42] would push back. [18:43] Now Americans are killed. [18:45] Now this is beginning [18:45] to spiral even more [18:46] out of control. [18:47] It certainly makes it [18:47] more complicated, [18:48] more difficult for the president. [18:50] We also know that [18:50] he does plan to go to Dover [18:52] to receive the fallen service members [18:54] when they return [18:56] back to the United States. [18:58] Thank you both [18:58] for your expertise. [18:59] We really appreciate that. [19:01] We thank you for watching [19:02] and remember stay updated [19:04] on breaking news [19:04] and top stories [19:05] on the NBC News app [19:07] or watch live [19:08] on our YouTube channel.