Tim Kaine calls on Trump to 'dial back the rhetoric' after US jet is downed in Iran: Full interview

[0:00] And joining me now is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. [0:04] Senator Kaine, welcome back to Meet the Press. [0:06] Happy Easter. [0:08] And thanks to you, Kristen. [0:09] Appreciate it. [0:10] Appreciate your being here. [0:12] Let's start with that breaking news overnight. [0:14] The fact that the U.S. military was able to rescue that second pilot that was down in [0:20] enemy lines in Iran. [0:22] What was your reaction to learning the news, Senator? [0:27] Overwhelming relief. [0:29] Our Easter service at my church was last night, and I know that that was a prayer on virtually [0:34] everybody's minds during the service. [0:36] And so to wake up this morning and hear about the rescue of the pilot, so very, so very [0:41] grateful for that, for the service of the search and rescue teams. [0:45] Kristen, this is why the president and Secretary Hegseth's rhetoric about no mercy, no quarter, [0:52] death from above, bomb you to the Stone Ages, this kind of rhetoric is really dangerous [0:57] because the likelihood. [0:59] Of having downed pilots or others who are captured in a war like this is very high. [1:05] And if you send the message that there's no quarter for the folks on the other side, that [1:10] that really encourages them to mistreat our folks. [1:14] And so I hope the White House, I doubt the president will. [1:16] But please dial back the rhetoric because you don't need to put people like these pilots more [1:21] at risk by the rhetoric that you use. [1:24] Well, you raise the rhetoric. [1:25] Let me ask you about some of the president's rhetoric this morning. [1:29] He was posting on Truth Social, quote, open the strait, you blank bastards. [1:34] Do you think that is an effective negotiation tactic? [1:40] No, the bombing them back to the Stone Age, cursing them, Secretary Hegseth saying, you know, [1:46] it's death from above, no mercy, no quarter. [1:49] We will ignore stupid rules of engagement. [1:52] This is all embarrassing and juvenile. [1:55] And it's people trying to act like they're puffed up and tough when what we really see from [2:00] the administration in this war is the absence of a plan, the absence of a clear rationale, no [2:06] effort to get allies on board and thus deep unpopularity of this war with the American public. [2:12] I know that's the case in Virginia. [2:13] I was traveling around Virginia all last week and I'll be doing the same this week. [2:18] People see this president as having blundered into a war with no clear rationale. [2:24] And there's no amount of cursing or boasting or tough talk that will cover up for the fact that [2:30] this president didn't have a rationale and he doesn't really have a plan. [2:33] Well, let me drill down with you on the Strait of Hormuz, obviously a major flashpoint. [2:39] I know that you want this war to come to an end. [2:42] But, Senator, would you support ending this war before the strait is reopened? [2:50] I think we need to end this war as soon as possible. [2:54] We don't need to deploy more Americans into harm's way in a war that lacked a rationale and that lacked a plan. [3:01] And then we'll work with allies and others to figure out the situation in the strait. [3:06] Thank goodness the United States is less reliant on oil from the Middle East because we built up a strong domestic energy industry. [3:15] The president shouldn't try to cripple the clean energy industry in the way that he's doing it. [3:20] Let's focus on growing American energy. [3:23] And I think when the war ends, you'll start to get the relief at the price tag, at the pump for Americans who are paying [3:31] to. [3:31] The president promised to end foreign wars and bring down prices. [3:35] He's initiating wars, raising prices, and now claiming he's got to cut Medicaid, Medicare, and other programs to fund his wars. [3:43] That's not the way we ought to be going. [3:45] Well, let me ask you about what comes next, Senator. [3:47] President Trump asking Congress for $1.5 trillion for the military, a $500 billion increase from the military budget last year. [3:59] Would you support that spending? [4:01] If deemed necessary for military readiness? [4:05] Kristen, I have a hard time seeing that size of an increase as being justified. [4:12] The president sent that over Friday. [4:15] As you know, I'm on the Armed Services Committee, and we'll be taking a look at it. [4:18] But here's a question we have to ask, which is it's not just about the dollars. [4:22] It's about the Pentagon managing the money. [4:25] You just watched the Secretary of Defense fire very respected Army leadership in the middle of a war. [4:32] Respected leadership. [4:33] Respected leadership on both sides of the aisle, in both houses. [4:36] And there's deep questions about why many suspect that Secretary Hegseth was just trying to move people out of the way that he viewed as personally threatening to his leadership. [4:47] Maybe they were being candid to him with advice that he didn't like. [4:51] And so I don't think Congress is going to be in a mood to write a blank check to a leadership team, a civilian leadership team that seems so inept these days. [5:01] So you're a no right now, Senator? [5:03] Well, the president, all he has sent us is the number. [5:08] We don't have the details. [5:10] The good news is the Armed Services Committee is going to start having hearings in April, May, before we write the bill in June. [5:17] Needless to say, we have a lot of questions to ask, and the administration has a whole lot of explaining to do. [5:22] Let me ask you, because since the start of this war, you have co-sponsored five war powers resolutions, two of which have failed on the floor. [5:32] Your colleague, your Republican colleague, Senator. [5:35] John Curtis said he actually won't support more funding without a formal declaration of war from Congress. [5:43] Senator, do you think you have enough Republican support to get a resolution to pass, given what you're hearing from Senator Curtis? [5:51] Well, I was pleased to hear that from Senator Curtis because it shows that he takes the Constitution seriously, that we shouldn't be at a war, particularly a war of this magnitude, without a vote of Congress. [6:05] I would welcome. [6:06] That debate on the floor. [6:07] I don't see more war after 25 years of unproductive war in the Middle East. [6:12] I don't see it as a good idea. [6:14] That's why I think this war is illegal. [6:16] But if we have that debate on the floor and a majority of my colleagues thinks we ought to be at war, I'll still think it's unwise, but I will at least say it's legal, it's constitutional. [6:27] The problem we have now is a war that is both illegal and unwise. [6:32] Senator Curtis is suggesting, hey, it's time for Congress to really get in. [6:36] And make sure that there's a plan here that the American public can support. [6:39] Let me ask you about another major flashpoint, NATO, the new tensions between President Trump and NATO. [6:46] Of course, the NATO Secretary General poised to visit Washington this week. [6:50] You co-authored the law designed to prevent any president from pulling out of NATO unilaterally with then Senator Marco Rubio. [6:59] Do you think if President Trump tries to withdraw from NATO, Congress will be able to block him? [7:06] And that Republicans would be on board with that? [7:10] Kristen, I do. [7:11] This was a bill that I actually introduced with Senator John McCain. [7:14] I think it was one of his last bills before he died. [7:17] And then Senator Rubio picked it up as the chief Republican after Senator McCain died. [7:22] We got it passed in, I believe, the end of 2023, a very important bill. [7:28] The president cannot withdraw from NATO without support of Congress. [7:32] We are stronger with allies than when we're operating on our own. [7:36] And if the president were to. [7:37] I'm withdrawing from NATO. [7:39] It would be like Donald Trump saying the sun will come up in the West tomorrow. [7:43] It would be an irrelevant falsehood. [7:45] He can't withdraw without us. [7:47] However, he has hurt NATO badly by imposing tariffs on NATO countries without any consultation, [7:55] by waging wars that are affecting the economies of NATO nations without any consultation. [8:00] And now he's blaming them for not coming to the USA with respect to the Straits. [8:06] Elementary human relations. [8:07] If you want help from somebody, work with them. [8:10] Don't kick them around. [8:11] And then when you're in trouble, ask them for help. [8:13] That's what President Trump is doing now. [8:15] And that's why it's not working. [8:16] All right. [8:16] Let's turn to the fight, the funding fight over the Department of Homeland Security, [8:22] which is now closed. [8:23] As you know, the Senate passed a bill which the House is now signaling it will support [8:28] when it's back in session. [8:30] It's worth noting, though, Senator, this bill does not include the reforms to ICE that Democrats [8:36] were demanding, which include. [8:37] No masks requiring judicial warrants. [8:40] What exactly did Democrats get out of this shutdown, Senator? [8:45] Well, well, Kristen, the deal was what Democrats had been putting on the table for weeks. [8:51] There was no need for the shutdown. [8:53] There was no need for TSA lines. [8:55] We basically said to the Republicans, let's fund all the DHS agencies at the levels we've [9:01] all agreed on. [9:02] We've worked it out in a bipartisan way with two majority Republican houses, except ICE [9:07] and CBP. [9:08] Which need reform. [9:10] And the Republicans had pre-funded ICE and CBP activities, so nobody was losing paychecks [9:17] in those agencies. [9:19] So you're right. [9:19] We have proposed funding everything except ICE and CBP. [9:24] They can use their pre-funding, and we will continue the reform discussion. [9:29] And you're right. [9:29] We don't yet have those reforms, but we have a wind at our back because we know the American [9:34] public strongly believes that these federal agencies should follow. [9:38] They should follow the same standards that local law enforcement agencies follow. [9:42] ID, no masks, have a warrant before you enter somebody's homes. [9:48] These are enormously popular. [9:50] So we think we can make headway on getting reforms because the American public is with [9:55] us on the reforms we're seeking. [9:56] Well, there was a similar outcome in November after the longest government shutdown. [10:00] In fact, you were one of eight senators who did negotiate with Republicans to reopen the [10:06] government. [10:06] And the fight at that point. [10:08] Was over Obamacare subsidies, but Democrats never actually got an extension of those [10:14] Obamacare subsidies. [10:16] Do you acknowledge that Democrats have yet to gain anything tangible from these shutdowns? [10:25] Well, the first in November, my negotiation was on a different point, protection for federal [10:31] employees from all the firings and rifts that the administration was conducting. [10:36] And I got thousands and thousands of federal employees. [10:40] And I got thousands and thousands of federal employees. [10:42] And I got thousands and thousands of federal employees. [10:43] And I got thousands and thousands of federal employees. [10:43] That was something that I negotiated in the fall shutdown that was extremely helpful. [10:48] Look, shutdowns are not good. [10:50] I don't think they're certainly not winning for the nation. [10:53] And again, that's why Democrats put on the table weeks and weeks ago, no need for a shutdown. [10:58] Let's fund the agencies we've agreed on and keep a reform discussion going with ICE. [11:03] It does sound like finally the House will agree to do what the Senate agreed to unanimously. [11:10] Now, two weeks ago, I hope they will do it. [11:13] Then we'll continue the reform discussion. [11:15] And all of these questions, whether it's ICE or the Republican efforts to slash health care, [11:21] President Trump saying because of fighting wars, we're going to need to cut Medicaid, [11:26] Medicare, child care. [11:27] These will all be matters on the voters' minds this November. [11:31] All right, Senator, very quickly before I let you go, President Trump [11:34] fired his attorney general, Pam Bondi. [11:38] You are someone who's actually voted. [11:40] Yes. [11:40] On some of his nominees, including former DHS Secretary Kristi Noem. [11:45] Are you open to voting yes on President Trump's pick to become the next attorney general? [11:54] I never start off as an automatic no. [11:57] We'll see who the president proposes. [11:59] If you get elected as president, I think that should carry a mandate to put in an executive team. [12:04] If somebody is not qualified or has lack of character, I'll vote no. [12:09] But I never start off as a no. [12:10] But here's the. [12:11] Here's the lesson from Pam Bondi, Kristen. [12:14] The AG is supposed to be the nation's chief law enforcement officer and have an independent gravitas and integrity. [12:22] Pam Bondi threw all that away and she still got fired. [12:25] So, look, you can either go in as an attorney general and stand up for the rule of law and you may make Donald Trump mad, [12:32] or you can go in and try to just do everything the president wants and you're going to make him mad. [12:38] And she basically sold her own integrity. [12:41] She couldn't even. [12:41] Look at herself in a mirror and she still got sacked. [12:44] That should be a lesson to whoever is the next nominee for AG. [12:48] Be the nation's chief law enforcement officer and don't let the president cause you to trim your conscience or, you know, become a toady. [12:57] All right. [12:58] Senator Tim Kaine, hope you have a wonderful Easter holiday. [13:01] Thank you so much for joining us. [13:03] We thank you for watching. [13:05] And remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.