Thom Tillis says Trump’s Russia deal may be illegal, will put American lives at risk: Full interview

[0:00] Joining me now is Republican Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina. [0:04] He's the author of the new book, How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents. [0:10] Senator Tillis, welcome back to Meet the Press. [0:14] Good morning. [0:15] Good morning. [0:16] Congratulations on the new book. [0:18] We're going to get to it in just a moment. [0:19] But first, I want to start on President Trump on Friday, [0:22] lifting sanctions on Russia as a part of a deal to buy Russian oil [0:28] without any agreement to end the war in Ukraine. [0:32] Then on Saturday, he actually called on Ukraine to find a new leader. [0:36] Take a listen to what he said. [0:38] You know what I suggest? [0:40] I suggest they get a new leader who can make a deal [0:43] because he could have made many deals that for some reason he never does. [0:48] Senator Tillis, what is your reaction to all of this? [0:53] I completely reject it. [0:55] Look, I was over in Ukraine a couple of weeks ago with a couple of my colleagues. [0:58] We went to Kharkiv. [0:59] We heard stories of systematic kidnap and relocation of children, [1:05] rape of women and daughters in the presence of their husband before they were executed, [1:10] an illegal war that was initiated by the despot that we know as Vladimir Putin. [1:16] If President Trump wants to end the strain of energy supplies, [1:19] number one, get things right in Iran, [1:21] and number two, recognize that it was Vladimir Putin, not Zelensky, that started this war. [1:27] And it's Vladimir Putin who owns the responsibility for energy prices [1:32] to the extent that they come from that part of the world. [1:34] It's also Vladimir Putin who disrupted food supplies that are causing people to starve in Africa. [1:39] So please, please spare me any blame on the Ukrainian people and President Zelensky. [1:45] They're fighting for their lives. [1:47] And Vladimir Putin wants to literally freeze them to death in the coming months. [1:52] The president needs to move forward with the sanctions bill that we sent him. [1:56] This agreement with purchasing Russian oil is essentially, I think, [2:01] tarnishing Lindsey Graham's efforts to try and get the sanctions bill through. [2:05] So the president should implement the sanctions bills, not be wide open to Russian energy. [2:10] Well, and to follow up with you on that point, when you hear the president calling for a new leader of Ukraine, [2:17] do you believe he's taking the side of Vladimir Putin? [2:23] Well, you know, it seems like the president needs to realize that tens of thousands of people have died over this illegal invasion. [2:31] And I get it that he may be frustrated, but he needs to understand who the good guys are in this disagreement [2:36] and who the bad guys are. [2:38] And it's not even close. [2:40] Well, let me, we're talking about bills that have been passed. [2:43] In 2022, the Senate voted 100 to nothing to ban Russian oil imports until Russia met certain conditions, [2:52] including withdrawing from Ukraine. [2:55] The law says any changes to that have to be run through Congress. [3:00] Do you believe the president is breaking the law with this deal with Russia? [3:06] I believe that he may be. [3:07] And I'm planning on, if we haven't put it out yet, putting out a statement with Senator Shaheen on this matter. [3:13] Look, this is this has deadly consequences. [3:17] Giving Vladimir Putin any sense that we're going to put our foot on the brakes versus put on our foot on the accelerator to ending this war [3:24] and ensuring peace in Europe, we've got to we've got to go back. [3:29] And I do believe there's a legitimate case for saying the president's not following the law. [3:32] We were very clear that we are that Russia is the aggressor. [3:36] Russia is the one who can end this war by backing out a territory that they occupied. [3:41] In fact, it should go all the way back to Crimea, but at least the additional land that they've invaded over the past three years. [3:48] Well, you're saying four years now. [3:50] You're saying that the president may, in fact, be breaking the law. [3:54] What should what can the president, the Senate rather, do about that? [4:01] Well, there's a lot of things that are still up in this Congress that I'll play a role in. [4:05] And if the president wants my support, which I believe he should get for funding military operations and year end funding beyond baseline funding, [4:14] I think the president needs to understand this is a problem. [4:17] And I'm not the only Republican concerned with this. [4:20] There are a number of Republicans. [4:21] In fact, take a look at the vote for the Lindsey Graham sanctions bill. [4:26] That was 86 votes. [4:27] If I remember, that's a universal position of the U.S. Senate. [4:31] And the president's actions and his comments over the last 24 hours are the exact opposite of the intent of that bill. [4:38] Well, you talk about the consequences. [4:40] Let me ask you, because NBC News has reported, quote, Russia is shipping explosives to Iran and in a separate report, [4:48] providing intelligence to Iran on the location of U.S. forces. [4:54] Is this deal with Putin putting American lives at risk, Senator? [5:00] It absolutely will. [5:01] My goodness, let's talk about the mercenaries that Putin funds and Wagner. [5:06] Let's talk about the targeting information that Putin's administration has given Iran. [5:12] Let's not forget the cozy relationship that Putin has had with Iran over the years, up to and including when Soleimani was there. [5:19] So, look, these are bad people hanging out with bad people, putting American lives at risk, [5:25] particularly our special operators and people forward deployed. [5:28] People in the White House, or I should say people in Department of Defense and our intelligence operations, [5:33] really need to beat a path to the president's office and say, look, this guy has a murderous rap sheet. [5:39] He cannot be trusted. [5:41] And I will guarantee you, at the first opportunity Putin has to embarrass or undermine President Trump, he will. [5:48] Well, speaking of the Department of Defense, I have to ask you about the Pentagon's plans to execute the Fort Hood shooter, Nadal Hassan, by firing squad. [5:59] Secretary Hegseth announcing it would be live streamed to the public. [6:03] You've made it very clear you do not want this to be televised. [6:07] What exactly do you think the impact of televising and execution would be? [6:13] It's another example of where U.S. lives, American lives will be put at risk. [6:18] Terrorist organizations will use this as a recruiting tool. [6:22] It will radicalize other people. [6:25] And this is not who we are. [6:27] Look, the Fort Hood shooter should be put to death. [6:30] But there is a there's a way to deal with this that's proper and there's a way to deal with this that's more improper than I have ever observed in my life. [6:39] This is not who we are. [6:40] And it's another example of what Pete Hegseth and all of his bravado needs to get the hell out of the Department of Defense because he is a failed leader. [6:49] And we need strong leadership supporting President Trump right now. [6:53] We need to end the conflict in Iran. [6:55] And I do believe that it's some of Pete Hegseth's mismanagement to have us meandering there. [7:00] He's more responsible for increased energy prices than President Zelensky. [7:04] We've got to get our act together in Iran and we've got to recognize the real threat to Western democracy is not anybody other than Vladimir Putin and a man who wants to reestablish the Russian empire and communism throughout the world. [7:19] He's no different than Khrushchev. [7:20] He wants to bury us. [7:22] And President Trump needs to recognize that. [7:24] Senator, let me ask you, though, you're being very critical of Pete Hegseth. [7:27] You did vote to confirm Pete Hegseth. [7:30] Do you regret that vote? [7:32] Do you bear any responsibility for this moment? [7:35] Well, I don't know. [7:36] I probably was a little subtle in my book. [7:39] I dedicate a whole chapter to my biggest regret. [7:42] So I think it's pretty clear that I regret that decision. [7:45] Look, I've got a track record of supporting President's Cabinet picks dating all the way back to Obama. [7:51] I do believe a president deserves as many of their picks as possible. [7:55] But there's no question based on his job performance. [7:58] He got hired. [7:59] But I'm sure that in your business and everybody else's business, you've had to fire people you hired. [8:04] That's the point. [8:05] I made a mistake. [8:06] I've admitted that I made a mistake. [8:07] And now I want to try and put somebody in place that will help the president's legacy and make Americans safer. [8:12] And that is not Pete Hegseth. [8:14] All right. [8:14] Well, let's talk about your new book, How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents, right here. [8:19] Congratulations on the new book. [8:22] Let me read a part of it. [8:23] And then I want to get your reaction on the other side. [8:25] You write, [8:26] I know for a fact that there are others like me, Republicans who agreed to go along with the early demands of the Trump team, no matter how ridiculous they were, believing that failing to do so would mean the end of their political career and to now see that things have gone way too far. [8:45] Are you essentially saying that on your watch, the Republican Congress failed to live up to its responsibility as a co-equal branch of government? [8:56] Yeah, very similar to the way the Obama administration, Congress and Obama did, the administration and the Biden. [9:01] Look, the point of the book, and people always want to pick their favorite chapters, but the bottom line is we have got to stop this cycle of one-offsmanship. [9:10] You know, it was the Biden administration that pressured people who signed a letter saying they would never nuke the filibuster when I signed that letter to President Trump, who then went on to nuke the filibuster and to do the most partisan vote on the Senate floor. [9:24] So I hope if people read the book, they realize this isn't critical about just this last administration. [9:30] This is a consistent process of shifting power over to the executive branch at our own peril. [9:37] The Article 1 branch is the branch of the people. [9:40] It's closest to the people. [9:41] We've got to stop conveying power in the other direction. [9:45] When a president like Obama threatening people for primaries because of Obamacare, and now we hear the candidate in Michigan wants to take it one step further to a single-payer system, Medicare for all, my guess is there'll be a lot of pressure on Democrats for doing that. [9:59] The premise of the book is to say that the party that finally wrestles back power and speaks truth to power when we disagree with somebody who's in our own party is probably going to be the party that resonates with the American people who are getting tired of all this stuff. [10:15] Well, in this instance, I mean, you just told me a moment ago you think the president may be breaking the law. [10:20] What do you say to those who read this book as an acknowledgment, Senator, that you effectively put your own political career ahead of your constitutional duty as a U.S. senator? [10:31] Well, quite the opposite. [10:35] You know, I decided that the president, well, first off, people need to realize, again, it's also convenient for people to forget that I worked with the administration to eliminate a couple of nominees long before I ever decided to retire. [10:50] Republicans are going to be at their best, and Democrats, when we can resolve most of these problems procedurally using the levers of power that we have. [11:00] But now it's become a blood sport. [11:02] And I can take you back to numerous examples of where some of my Democratic colleagues kind of had to go the other way because they got a primary challenge or they got a primary threat from the Biden administration or the Trump administration. [11:16] My point is, you've got to support your president. [11:19] If your team wins the White House, you should do everything you can to make the president successful. [11:24] But then breaking points or lines have to be drawn, and I cover that in the book. [11:28] And I stand by every observation. [11:30] But if anybody thinks I've just become some sort of a put on a blue jersey and recruiting Democrats or supporting Democrats, they're out of their minds. [11:38] I want every Republican on the ballot to win in November. [11:41] And that's one of the reasons I'm trying to speak truth, so that we can get unaffiliated voters and other peoples who genuinely like Republicans, but they're not happy with some of the things going on now. [11:51] The last thing we can do is lose Congress and think that that's going to be a good thing for the American people, getting after energy prices and affordability. [11:58] I firmly believe Republicans have better solutions to that than Democrats. [12:02] All right. [12:03] Senator Tom Tillis, with your perspective ahead of those midterms, really appreciate your joining us. [12:08] Thank you so much. [12:09] Thank you.