Psychiatrist at Lindsay Clancy murder trial concludes testimony with tense exchange

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Briefly. So one of the questions that prosecutor asked you pertain to whether or not you could reach out to a third party. You recall that question like mother, father, husband? Yes. And we already on cross talked about that you didn't and they didn't call you but then the DA also raised that and you said you didn't have HIPAA permission. You recall just telling that to [00:00:33] Speaker 2: the jury? Yes. That was an additional detail. All right. What does that mean? Well, HIPAA is the privacy law for patients which we have to respect and honor very diligently. So we are not allowed to talk about a patient's treatment to anyone. We're not even allowed to say that they are a patient at our clinic unless they were to waive those HIPAA rights. [00:01:06] Speaker 1: And she was very cooperative, would have been more than willing to have you talk to her mother, father, husband, right? Sustained. Well, did you ever tell her, ask her to sign a HIPAA form? [00:01:19] Speaker 2: So that was not the main reason why it wasn't done. It wasn't... [00:01:23] Speaker 1: Did you ever ask her to sign a HIPAA form? [00:01:26] Speaker 2: A release, you mean? Yes. No, I did not ask her to sign a release. [00:01:33] Speaker 1: And if she did sign a release, even though her mother, her father, her husband didn't call you, you could have then reached out to them, right? [00:01:45] Speaker 2: I could have, but it is not typically something that is done when you have an adult patient who's able to speak for themselves. [00:01:53] Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that? It's not typically done when? [00:01:55] Speaker 2: When you have an adult patient who is able to speak for themselves. [00:01:59] Speaker 1: My God, you don't call the parents that she's living with because they're helping her or her husband? No. Because why? She's able to advocate for herself? [00:02:13] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:02:16] Speaker 1: Um, the prosecutor yet again raises the issue of the, uh, the marijuana. Do you recall that question? Yes. She wasn't smoking marijuana, was she? [00:02:32] Speaker 2: She did not tell me she was smoking marijuana. [00:02:34] Speaker 1: Did she tell you that she was using marijuana? No. Did she tell you that she was using gummies? No. Did she, because gummies in plural is what the DA asked you, right? That she was using gummies? Yes. Okay. Now, I asked you about getting access to the woman and infant's hospital records, which you did not, which you did not, right? [00:02:59] Speaker 2: I did not. [00:03:00] Speaker 1: And we already went over that. You could have, if you, if you asked for them with a HIPAA form, right? [00:03:06] Speaker 3: Objection. Didn't ask about these records. [00:03:09] Speaker 1: I don't care if she asked about the records. Down the scope. Overruled. You can ask that question. You asked, she asked you about marijuana gummies, right? Yes. Okay. Your Honor, I would offer the woman and infant's hospital records from Rhode Island, dealing with Lindsay Clancy. [00:03:31] Speaker 3: No objections. [00:03:31] Speaker 1: Okay. They may be admitted. [00:03:36] Speaker 3: I just want to look at them at some point to make sure it's a clean copy. [00:03:39] Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. Before it goes to the jury, well, you can review it. And it's important for a, excuse me. It's important for a patient to be forthright when asked questions by their provider, right? Yes. And you always, your opinion, found her to be forthright, right? Yes. Okay. If you, if I could approach you with, is it a 220, excuse me, and see the second paragraph, it begins in the middle of November. Could you read that for a sentence? [00:04:24] Speaker 2: In the middle of November, she tried taking a marijuana edible to help her sleep, which caused her to have increased anxiety and palpitations. [00:04:34] Speaker 1: So the records, if you had obtained them, you would have seen that it was not marijuana. It was not gummies, plural. It was one gummy that she tried and it didn't work out, right? [00:04:48] Speaker 2: Based on what I just read. Yes. [00:04:56] Speaker 1: Then you told us that there's a difference between a thought of suicide versus a plan of suicide. One of which would result in your words were a commit, a commitment, right? [00:05:09] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:05:09] Speaker 1: What does that mean? Thought versus plan equals commit. [00:05:15] Speaker 2: A suicidal plan means that they are, you know, they know exactly what they're going to do to end their life, you know, what they're going to use, maybe when they're going to do it, they've researched it, and that presents an immediate threat. And that is something that would require hospitalization. [00:05:39] Speaker 1: The district attorney had asked you also about the thyroid levels and you indicated or she indicated that they were in the low range at Mass General Hospital read. Is that correct? I thought she said they were normal. Oh, I thought she said low, but normal or low, MGH, Mass General Hospital, right? [00:06:04] Speaker 2: Sorry, what's the question? [00:06:05] Speaker 1: District attorney asked you whether or not they were thyroid reads. Do you remember that question? [00:06:10] Speaker 2: She said her thyroid had been tested. [00:06:12] Speaker 1: The question now is, do you remember that question that she asked you that you answered with no problem? Yes. Okay. And your response was that my memory, this jurors accounts, that it was low reads, MGH, and South Shore Hospital. Is that right? [00:06:36] Speaker 2: I thought she said that it was normal or within normal limits. [00:06:39] Speaker 1: Almost fine. We'll go with normal. So your memory is that there were thyroid blood level reads of Lindsay Clancy from two healthcare providers. Is that correct? Yes. One would be Mass General Hospital, right? [00:06:57] Speaker 2: Um, I don't remember exactly. I think, I think she said yes. I think she said Mass General. [00:07:03] Speaker 1: Okay. Do you remember where the other hospital healthcare provider was? [00:07:07] Speaker 2: It might have been South Shore. [00:07:10] Speaker 1: Do you know what date those were? [00:07:12] Speaker 2: No. [00:07:13] Speaker 1: Those are old reads, weren't they? [00:07:15] Speaker 2: I don't know. [00:07:17] Speaker 1: One of the things that the district attorney asked you about on a number of occasions that seems to be important is if the person that you're treating has, I guess, what do they call it? Pressured speech? [00:07:29] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:07:30] Speaker 1: And you told us repeatedly that you never detected that Lindsay had pressured speech, right? [00:07:35] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:07:36] Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Correct. Looking at the record from October 21st, would you? [00:07:50] Speaker 3: Objection is writing on this. Oh, all right. [00:07:53] Speaker 1: You know what, I'll ask you to just look at it. You might take a look at it and if you want to get the actual exhibit, we could do that. All right. So forget all about my sloppy writing. I'm looking here on October 21st of '22. Is that correct? Right up there? [00:08:09] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:08:09] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:08:10] Speaker 2: Yes. [00:08:11] Speaker 1: Ann, can you just read this paragraph here for us? [00:08:16] Speaker 2: No, sorry. No sleep last night. Falls asleep after 40 minutes. Heart racing, severe anxiety. Worrying about kids, baby, sleep. Yawns but not drowsy. Not hyper pressured speech. [00:08:31] Speaker 1: What was that? Not hyper what? [00:08:32] Speaker 2: Not hyper not pressured speech is what I meant. I know it doesn't say not, but that is exactly what I meant. [00:08:38] Speaker 1: Wait, when did you see this that you noticed that it did not say not? [00:08:43] Speaker 2: I don't care what it says. I know what I meant. [00:08:46] Speaker 1: Well, when you wrote this, you did not say not pressured speech. You said in the medical record pressured speech, right? [00:08:57] Speaker 2: No. [00:08:58] Speaker 1: Does it say that? [00:09:00] Speaker 2: Yeah. The word not is right before not hyper, pressured speech. The two are following the not. [00:09:07] Speaker 1: What does the comma mean to you? When you put down in a medical record, heart racing, severe anxiety, worried about kids, baby, comma, sleep, comma, yawns but not drowsy, period. Not hyper, comma, pressured speech. That's what you wrote, right? [00:09:27] Speaker 2: She did not have pressured speech. [00:09:28] Speaker 1: Did you write that, doctor? [00:09:29] Speaker 2: I wrote that, but you're misinterpreting my note. [00:09:32] Speaker 1: Am I reading this correctly, and the jury will be able to look at it, that you put not hyper, comma, pressured speech. Did I read that right? [00:09:46] Speaker 2: Yes, but your interpretation is incorrect. [00:09:50] Speaker 1: As opposed to yours? Go ahead. Just in regards to what was raised there. [00:09:58] Speaker 3: Yes, just two brief issues, approaching you with your records from October 21st, 2022. The section labeled speech, where there are all the boxes where you can put pressure, word salad, all of the different things. What do you check off for speech on October 21st, 2022? [00:10:16] Speaker 2: That's appropriate. [00:10:19] Speaker 3: And defense asked you about the thyroid levels. Would it be accurate to state that I asked you if you were aware that her levels were normal at Seltzer Hospital and Brigham and Women's Hospital? Yes. And your answer was no, correct? [00:10:37] Speaker 2: No, I was not aware. [00:10:39] Speaker 3: Because you don't have those records, correct? Correct. Thank you. [00:10:43] Speaker 1: Do we have any clue as to how old they were? [00:10:47] Speaker 2: I don't know. You're asking me about something I never saw. [00:10:52] Speaker 1: All right. Nothing further. All right. Anything further? All right. Thank you, doctor. Let me step down. Thank you.