Full Massachusetts Senate pre-primary debate between Seth Moulton and John Deaton on WBZ

[0:01] Now, live from the WBZ-TV studios, Republican John Deaton, Democrat Seth Moulton, WBZ's [0:10] John Keller moderates a pre-primary debate across party lines in the race for U.S. Senate. [0:22] Welcome to a special presentation of WBZ News, a first-of-its-kind pre-primary inter-party [0:29] debate in the race for U.S. Senate. [0:31] I'm John Keller, political analyst for WBZ. [0:34] The candidates joining us tonight will appear on your primary ballot on September 1st, [0:41] and they are attorney John Deaton, the Republican nominee for Senate two years ago against Elizabeth [0:48] Warren. [0:48] He's running unopposed in his party's primary. [0:51] And Congressman Seth Moulton of the 6th District, who is challenging incumbent Senator Ed Markey [0:59] in the Democratic primary. [1:01] Gentlemen, welcome to both of you. [1:02] Thanks for being here. [1:03] Before we get going, a quick word or two. [1:06] Senator Markey was invited to participate in this debate, but declined. [1:11] However, he will be my guest this Sunday morning, June 21st, at 8.30 on the weekend edition of [1:18] Keller at Large. [1:19] Now, our format is familiar to viewers of WBZ debates in the past. [1:24] Each candidate gets one minute to address the same question, taking turns going first, followed [1:31] by an open period of rebuttal and crosstalk. [1:35] The only strict rules are no talking over one another and obey your moderator. [1:42] Fair enough? [1:42] Fair enough. [1:43] Excellent. [1:43] All right, let's begin. [1:45] And, Mr. Deaton, you'll go first here. [1:47] D comes before M. Now, it's highly unusual for a statewide federal office holder to be fired [1:53] by Massachusetts voters before Scott Brown lost his Senate seat to Elizabeth Warren in 2012. [2:00] It hadn't happened here since Paul Tsongas beat Ed Brook in 1978. [2:05] So, one minute, please. [2:07] What has Ed Markey done wrong that merits his firing? [2:12] Well, thank you. [2:12] And thank you to everybody listening. [2:15] Thank you for doing this. [2:16] Thanks to the studio. [2:16] And, Seth, Marine to Marine, thank you for doing this. [2:19] Shame on Senator Markey for not being here. [2:21] You asked the question, what has he done? [2:24] Why isn't he here defending 53 years of being in office? [2:29] Look, you can see I am not a young man by anyone's standard. [2:33] His first year in elected office, I was six. [2:36] Seth wasn't even alive. [2:37] And he's not here to defend his record because he can't. [2:41] When you ask him, what have you done lately? [2:43] You want to know what Senator Markey talks about? [2:45] He talks about the Internet and computers. [2:48] Senator, that was 30 years ago. [2:50] And in Maryland, where you pay 16 cents for electricity per kilowatt hour, [2:55] because Maryland's not subject to your policies here in Massachusetts, [2:59] we pay 33 cents per kilowatt hour. [3:02] He hasn't shown up. [3:04] And that's why he should be fired. [3:06] I think I'm the right guy to take his place, [3:08] but that's the reason he needs to go. [3:10] 53 years is enough. [3:11] Thank you, Mr. Deaton. [3:13] Mr. Moulton, one minute. [3:16] John, first of all, thank you so much for having us here tonight. [3:18] And I want to begin just by giving a quick introduction to who I am, [3:22] for those of you who don't know me. [3:24] Most importantly, I'm a proud dad. [3:26] I'm also the congressman for the North Shore and the Merrimack Valley. [3:30] And I'm a Marine veteran who's seen the consequences [3:32] of failed leadership in Washington. [3:36] Now, I didn't expect to be here doing this right now. [3:40] In fact, when I got out of the Marines, [3:41] the first job I took was in Dallas working on a high-speed rail project, [3:46] trying to bring carbon-free transportation to America. [3:49] But I thought back on a conversation I had with a Marine in my platoon [3:54] at the end of a tough day in the war when he said, [3:56] you know, sir, you ought to run for Congress someday [3:59] so that this stuff doesn't happen again. [4:02] Now, he used a Marine term for stuff, [4:04] but I think you understand what I mean. [4:06] The point is that a lot of people doing the hard work in America, [4:09] fighting on the ground, they don't have a voice. [4:11] A lot of people in Massachusetts right now [4:13] feel like they don't have a voice in our politics. [4:16] And they need a fighter. [4:17] They need someone who's going to change the playbook, [4:20] bring in a new generation of leadership, [4:22] start making Democrats win again. [4:25] And that's exactly why I'm in this race, [4:27] and it's why I'm here to take on a Republican tonight. [4:30] You can expand on your comments [4:32] as we enter this open period rebuttal. [4:34] Mr. Deaton. [4:35] Listen, if you look at Seth's argument, [4:38] it is simply he's younger than Markey. [4:41] He sees eye-to-eye on all the policies. [4:44] That's not change. [4:45] That's promotion dressed up as generational change. [4:49] It's about performance, not just age. [4:52] And Seth, you know, I'm going to call you Seth out of respect. [4:55] Hopefully it's okay, Congressman. [4:57] But he's been in office for 12 years, [5:00] and he can't name one major bill on housing, [5:04] health care, or energy that has helped improve [5:07] the lives of working families. [5:09] Other than a 988 line [5:12] or a United States Marine Corps commemorative coin, [5:15] we got 250 years of history. [5:17] We don't need a coin. [5:18] We need policies that change the lives of working families. [5:21] Name one bill. [5:22] Rebuttal. [5:22] Go ahead. [5:23] 988, the national mental health hotline [5:26] that I pass with a fellow veteran [5:28] working across the aisle to get something done [5:31] in a very difficult environment in Washington. [5:33] And there was a recent study that came out in the Boston Globe [5:36] that said that teen suicide across the nation [5:38] is down 11% just because of that hotline. [5:42] There are thousands of Americans every single month [5:45] whose lives are saved because of that. [5:47] And it's not easy to get things done in Washington. [5:50] This is a very significant piece of legislation. [5:52] It was not easy to get past. [5:53] There were a lot of debates about how it would be staffed, [5:56] how it would be funded, [5:57] a lot of even brutal fights over what the number would be. [6:01] But at the end of the day, it's saving people's lives. [6:05] It's helping people in their worst moment. [6:07] And I've had people all across Massachusetts come up to me [6:10] and thank me for getting that done [6:12] in a very difficult environment [6:13] to get anything done in Washington today. [6:15] Go ahead. [6:16] John and everyone out there, notice I said, [6:18] other than the 988 line, [6:20] name one major bill that has changed the lives [6:23] and helped people work in families in Massachusetts [6:26] on energy, health care, housing. [6:28] He can't name one 12 years, but this is his argument. [6:31] His argument is... [6:32] Oh, wait. [6:33] His argument is that he has a difficult co-worker [6:36] in Republicans. [6:37] In the private sector, you don't get the blame [6:39] for difficult co-workers for not doing your job. [6:41] Let him respond, please. Go ahead. [6:44] I mean, we do have a very difficult... [6:46] a lot of difficult colleagues [6:48] who just support Donald Trump [6:50] in the Oval Office every single day. [6:52] It makes it very difficult [6:53] to find any Republican that you can work with, [6:56] and that's why I'm not afraid to take them on. [6:58] That's why I go on Fox News. [7:01] That's why I go into the Lion's Den. [7:03] That's why I'm here debating the Republican [7:06] here tonight in Massachusetts, [7:08] because we have to be willing to take on those fights. [7:10] But we also have to get things done. [7:12] I'll name another bill, the Brandon Act. [7:14] The Brandon Act should matter a lot to you, John, [7:16] because it's helped a lot of service members [7:18] get mental health assistance in a time of need. [7:22] I've worked on the Afghan Adjustment Act. [7:24] I've proposed the American High-Speed Rail Act, [7:26] the most aggressive, progressive, [7:28] high-speed rail bill [7:30] in the entire United States Congress. [7:32] It would not only make it faster than driving [7:35] to get around New England [7:37] and the rest of the United States, [7:38] but would open up amazing opportunities for housing. [7:41] I mean, why is it that we shouldn't be able to get [7:44] from Springfield to Boston in 45 minutes [7:47] when you can do that in Morocco? [7:48] That's the kind of vision that we need for the future. [7:51] That's the kind of forward-looking leadership. [7:53] But there are other important differences [7:54] between myself and Senator Markey. [7:56] Like, I'm not going to support Senator Schumer. [7:58] I'm not going to go to Washington. [7:59] The very first vote I take as the United States Senator [8:01] is for new leadership at the top as well, [8:04] because the bottom line is that the old playbook [8:06] is just not getting it done. [8:09] We need to fight harder. [8:10] We need to fight more effectively. [8:11] And we've got a great new generation of Democrats [8:13] that are willing to step up and lead. [8:15] Equal time. [8:16] Okay, listen. [8:17] Notice he didn't say one major bill that he passed. [8:20] He talks about proposed legislation. [8:22] I could propose a lot of things. [8:24] Senator, I didn't interrupt you. [8:25] I didn't interrupt you. [8:26] Just give me equal time. [8:27] Now, listen. [8:28] For example, Senator Markey says Medicare for all, [8:31] Green New Deal, and comes up with all kinds [8:34] of proposed legislation, the real hard work [8:37] is writing laws, and I'm a lawyer. [8:40] I know how to do it, and doing the hard work [8:42] to get it done. [8:44] Let me tell you the difference between Seth Moulton, [8:46] Ed Markey, and John Deaton. [8:47] They stand before you. [8:49] Well, not Ed Markey, because he's too much of a coward [8:51] to be here tonight. [8:52] But when they stand before you, it's as Democrats. [8:55] I stand before you as an American. [8:58] I do not have loyalty to a person, a party, or an agenda. [9:02] Just common sense in the Constitution. [9:05] And, Seth, you, with all due respect, [9:08] it's all about partisan politics. [9:09] You talk about the Democrat Party and how you can improve that [9:13] and the leadership of the Democrat Party. [9:14] What about America? [9:16] You know, you guys keep saying, [9:17] when is a Republican going to stand up to Donald Trump? [9:20] I've had three opportunities to vote for him, [9:22] and I have not voted once. [9:24] And when a Republican shows up, like they've been asking for, [9:28] you know what they say? [9:28] Don't vote for him. [9:29] He's a Republican. [9:31] All right. [9:31] It's silly. [9:32] I want to move on, but you go ahead. [9:33] The single best thing that anyone can do [9:36] to help Americans, to help working families, [9:38] to help people struggling in Massachusetts [9:40] just to afford filling up at the pump [9:43] or being able to pay their rent, [9:46] being able to pay their electricity bills every month, [9:49] the single best thing that anyone can do [9:51] is get rid of Donald Trump. [9:53] And the problem is that when we send a Republican [9:55] to Washington, you may say you're independent, [9:57] you may say you haven't voted for him, [9:59] but you're just going to enable his agenda. [10:01] And he is the biggest problem we have in America today. [10:04] That's why we need people who are willing to show up [10:06] and take him on and get that done. [10:10] And by the way, another piece of legislation I passed, [10:12] the Faster Care for Veterans Act. [10:13] It's helped a lot of people get care at the VA. [10:15] I made a commitment to continue getting my own health care [10:17] at the VA when I was elected to Congress [10:19] because a lot of veterans are not getting the care that they need. [10:21] I wanted to see that firsthand. [10:23] And it's getting better under our watch. [10:25] All right, go ahead. [10:26] Jumping on a bill that someone else proposed [10:27] and saying it's yours is not right. [10:29] But here's the reality. [10:30] Nothing on health care, nothing on energy, [10:32] nothing on housing. [10:33] But no, I'm going to address this when he says, [10:36] oh, he says this as a Republican, [10:37] he's going to get to Washington and fold. [10:39] I ran in a Republican primary, not supporting the head of the ticket. [10:44] Do you know I went to RTCs, Republican town committees, [10:47] all across the state. [10:49] I got caught all kinds of names by people. [10:51] And Rhino and Democrat in disguise were the nice ones. [10:55] I got caught traitor. [10:56] I never bent the knee. [10:58] I never wavered. [11:00] Massachusetts needs someone like me, [11:02] an independent voice who says, [11:04] who stood on this stage with you, John Keller, [11:06] with Elizabeth Warren and looked her in the face and said, [11:09] you keep saying that Democrats are great, Republicans are bad. [11:12] And I said to her, you all suck in Congress. [11:15] And I'm saying this now. [11:17] Here's my final thing on it, John. [11:18] Okay. [11:19] F the Republican Party. [11:21] F the Democrat Party. [11:22] They all suck. [11:24] You need someone like me who will stand up for America and working people. [11:28] I've done it all my life and I'll do it in the Senate. [11:30] And the mere thought of someone saying you're going to cave, [11:33] you didn't even stand up for your own daughters when the push came to shove. [11:37] That's the difference between courage and not. [11:40] Final word. [11:42] John, if you feel so strongly about this, [11:44] why aren't you running as an independent? [11:46] And also, I just might have mentioned that- [11:47] I'll answer that question. [11:48] The two out of the three bills I've mentioned were about health care. [11:50] Now, Republicans don't think that mental health care is actually health care. [11:54] I was proud to find a Republican veteran who does. [11:56] And we got that done and it's saving a lot of lives. [11:59] All right. [12:00] I would like to move on. [12:01] Gentlemen, you can come back to this later. [12:03] I'm sure you'll find ample opportunity to do so. [12:06] Fair enough. [12:07] I know our viewers would like to learn more about you [12:10] and sort of the kind of person you are. [12:12] And this question may help get to that. [12:14] Earlier today, Senator Markey released his 2025 federal income tax return, [12:20] not including his wife's income. [12:22] It shows he earned $250,262 and gave $8,850 to charity. [12:31] That's a bit less than 4%. [12:33] We'll start with you, Mr. Moulton. [12:36] How much did you earn last year? [12:39] And what percent of that did you donate to charity? [12:42] I earned the standard congressional salary of $174,000, [12:45] but I filed my taxes jointly with my wife. [12:50] And so we will be releasing those as well, well before the primary. [12:55] I just learned about this today. [12:57] I don't know the exact percentage. [12:59] We'll know that once we can complete our taxes. [13:02] I don't know the exact percentage we give to charity. [13:04] But I do think it's really important to give back. [13:06] You know, I'm not someone who planned my life around running for office. [13:10] I'm not someone who studied politics in school. [13:14] I'm not someone who grew up involved in political campaigns. [13:17] But I really saw what happens when people in Washington [13:21] are out of touch with what's going on on the ground. [13:24] And I remember those moments in Iraq [13:26] when we just felt totally abandoned by our leaders in Washington, D.C. [13:30] And it's not lost on me that I'm running in a primary against Senator Markey [13:34] who voted for the Iraq War, [13:36] who voted to send thousands and thousands of young Americans [13:40] to fight in a war that didn't need to happen [13:42] because they didn't ask the tough questions in Washington. [13:45] They just naively believed the lies of the Bush administration. [13:49] I'm not going to take votes like that in the United States Senate [13:51] because I've seen the consequences of those votes on the ground. [13:54] Time. You can get back to this more if you want. [13:56] Mr. Deaton, one minute. [13:57] How much should you make? What percent did you give? [13:59] Well, that's the easy answer. [14:00] I didn't make any money last year. [14:03] And because I've invested in Bitcoin and crypto, that's down. [14:07] I didn't make any money trading stocks, unlike people in Congress. [14:10] I have a business loss. [14:12] I had a business loss last year [14:13] because business for me is struggling [14:18] because I chose to try to publicly serve. [14:21] So I'm on extension now, [14:23] but I released all my tax returns last time. [14:25] I'll release them this time. [14:26] I donated $10,000 to the Boys and Girls Club, [14:28] even though I had a loss. [14:29] And I spent many hours on pro bono work. [14:32] I'm on the Ronald McDonald House Charity, which is amazing. [14:36] Donate to everyone out there. [14:37] Go to Ronald McDonald House and donate. [14:39] Don't donate to my campaign during this. [14:41] Donate to them. [14:43] Pro bono work. [14:44] I took on the SEC, Securities Exchange Commission, [14:47] not on behalf of the billionaires and the coin bases of the world, [14:51] on small retail investors. [14:53] And I won. [14:54] And a lifetime Democratic judge appointed by President Obama [14:57] cited my legal pro bono work [14:59] that saved the life savings of small-time investors. [15:03] I've been fighting for the little man all my life. [15:06] For 30 years in Massachusetts, [15:07] I've been representing people with mesothelioma, [15:10] taking on multibillion-dollar corporations. [15:12] The same one that donates to him and Ed Markey, [15:15] I've been suing him in court. [15:16] Rebuttal. [15:18] You know, I just think that it's important [15:20] that we get the service back into public service. [15:24] And I want to talk about two of the most important things [15:26] I enjoy doing as a member of Congress today. [15:29] The first is an initiative I started with my team [15:31] called Serve with Seth, where we go out as a team [15:34] and get involved in serving our community, [15:37] whether it's helping out at a food pantry [15:39] or doing environmental work, [15:41] taking invasive weeds out of a marsh up near Newburyport. [15:46] I mean, this is the kind of work [15:47] that we need to instill in the next generation. [15:50] I've also worked hard to bring service veterans [15:53] to Washington through my Serve America organization. [15:56] We've recruited, mentored, and supported [15:59] national service veterans, [16:00] people who've served in the Marine Corps, [16:02] the Coast Guard, but also AmeriCorps or Peace Corps. [16:06] They're people who understand what it truly means [16:08] to serve the country, to do selfless service, [16:10] what servant leadership is all about. [16:12] And these amazing national service veterans [16:15] have helped me flip 24 seats [16:18] from red to blue across the country. [16:20] That's not a record that anyone in Congress can match. [16:23] And I think that's important. [16:25] It's an important distinction [16:26] in the primary campaign I'm in [16:27] because we need someone [16:29] who's not just going to get himself reelected, [16:31] but help build the Democratic team, [16:33] help win majorities in the House and the Senate [16:35] all across the country. [16:36] Mr. Deaton. [16:37] Yes, listen, Seth knows a lot about service [16:40] and it's called self-service. [16:42] You want to know why he can't name [16:45] a major bill on healthcare, housing, or energy? [16:49] Because first he took on Nancy Pelosi, [16:52] challenging her. [16:53] For a year. [16:54] And then ultimately ended up voting for her anyways, [16:58] but he got a assignment committee, [17:00] assignment in the Senate out of it. [17:02] Then he ran for president of the United States. [17:05] He didn't make one debate stage [17:07] and now he's running for Senate. [17:09] I think before you ask the voters in Massachusetts [17:12] to give you a promotion, [17:14] you should concentrate on the job that you have, [17:17] perform in it first, then seek a promotion. [17:20] You want to become Ed Markey [17:22] and spend the next 30 years in Washington. [17:24] Response. [17:25] No, I mean, we actually just got news yesterday, [17:29] I think, that we won a fifth democracy award. [17:32] Of all the House and Senate offices, [17:35] we just won another democracy award, [17:37] this one for modernization and innovation. [17:39] We've won a democracy award [17:41] for the best constituent services [17:43] of any House and Senate office in the entire country. [17:47] I'm very proud of the work [17:48] that my team and I do in Washington every single day. [17:51] But I also want to make a quick comment [17:53] on why I think it's important [17:55] to bring new leaders into Washington. [17:57] Because I recognize that I'm someone [17:59] who's challenged the party establishment before. [18:01] I've called for new leadership. [18:03] The reason I voted for Nancy [18:04] is because we came to a deal [18:05] where she would step down after two terms, [18:08] which she honored to the T. [18:09] And you got an assignment? [18:10] She honored to the T. [18:10] You got an assignment. [18:11] No, I didn't. [18:12] I didn't get anything out of that, actually. [18:14] We just got a leadership change. [18:16] And I think that's what we need. [18:17] That's why I'm not going to vote for Senator Schumer. [18:20] That's why I'm fighting for change [18:21] in the Democratic Party. [18:22] That's why I think it's time [18:23] for a new generation of leaders [18:24] when the status quo, the old playbook, [18:27] is just not getting it done. [18:29] I want to also say this. [18:31] You know, John, you called Senator Markey [18:33] a coward earlier. [18:34] Look, I think he should be here today. [18:35] That doesn't make him a coward. [18:37] He's not a coward. [18:37] He's a lifelong public servant. [18:39] He's served in Congress longer than anybody else, [18:42] in fact, in the House or Senate, [18:44] except for Chuck Grassley. [18:45] We should honor that service. [18:47] We should thank him for that service. [18:48] There just comes a time to pass the torch [18:51] to the next generation. [18:52] And when the old playbook isn't working, [18:54] when we need to do better as a party, [18:55] I think that time is now. [18:56] I want to move on to briefly. [18:58] Briefly, please. [18:59] I have the right to respond to that. [19:00] Listen, Seth says that he's taken on the system. [19:03] He hasn't taken on the system. [19:04] I just told you about Pelosi, [19:06] about running for president now. [19:07] He's auditioning for the system. [19:09] That's what he's been doing for 12 years. [19:12] And, yes, it is harsh for me to say coward, [19:14] but let me tell you why I use that coward phrase. [19:17] Because I'm not going to honor someone who voted [19:20] to bail out the banks in 2008, [19:23] pump $4 trillion, devaluing the U.S. dollar, [19:27] which caused only people who owned things, Seth, [19:30] whether you owned Bitcoin or you owned houses or stocks or bonds. [19:36] People who have owned assets are the only ones [19:38] who participated in the last 20 years. [19:41] You want to know who doesn't own that kind of stuff? [19:44] Poor people. [19:45] People like me, born into poverty, [19:48] intergenerational poverty, [19:49] with a mom on food stamps and welfare. [19:51] So I take it seriously. [19:52] You want to know why I don't care about Donald Trump [19:55] and I don't care about partisan politics? [19:57] I care about 48 million people, [20:00] including 14 million children [20:02] who went to bed last night hungry. [20:05] I was one of those children. [20:07] And I need somebody, [20:08] America needs someone to go to the Senate [20:10] and fight for them [20:12] and not get into slogans like, [20:14] tax the rich and do this. [20:15] Okay. [20:15] But lift up people out of poverty. [20:18] That's what we need. [20:19] Final word on this. [20:19] I'm going to move on. [20:20] Go ahead. [20:21] I don't agree with every vote [20:22] that Senator Markey has taken, [20:23] but I don't think he's a coward. [20:24] All right. [20:25] Gentlemen, thank you very much. [20:27] Now, you'll go first here, Mr. Deaton. [20:30] This debate is unusual, [20:31] not just because it matches two candidates [20:33] from different parties before their primaries, [20:36] but also because you're both Marine veterans. [20:38] Thank you both for your service, by the way. [20:41] The Trump administration has used Marines [20:44] and other troops for domestic missions, [20:47] including dealing with civil disturbances [20:49] over immigration enforcement raids [20:51] and providing border security. [20:55] Do you support those uses of the Marines or not? [20:57] And why? [20:58] One minute, Mr. Deaton. [21:00] Well, first, let me address the service [21:02] because I do want to say this with complete sincerity. [21:06] I don't want you to compare my military and Marine service [21:08] to the congressman's. [21:11] We both are Marines. [21:12] We both served, [21:13] but his service to this country [21:15] is on a much higher level. [21:16] I never served in combat. [21:18] Seth served four tours of Iraq. [21:20] The man has two bronze stars with valor, [21:24] which means he has demonstrated battlefield courage. [21:27] I would like to think I would, [21:28] but I've never been put in that situation. [21:30] So I respect that. [21:32] I'm not going to say I respect that too, [21:34] but I respect your willingness to sign up to serve. [21:36] You know, I didn't expect to be in a war. [21:39] I ended up there, [21:39] but thank you for saying that. [21:41] Okay, continue. [21:43] But the reality is, listen, [21:44] there is a law that the military is not to be used in local law enforcement. [21:51] It's only to be used when you need to protect federal assets, [21:56] so federal buildings, [21:57] and including federal ICE agents or federal immigration agents who could be threatened. [22:02] You can use the military, including Marines, to protect those sources, [22:08] but you don't use them for local law enforcement. [22:10] And I sure hope we get the ICE and immigration soon. [22:12] The answer to your question is absolutely not, never. [22:17] It's wrong. [22:17] It's inappropriate. [22:18] It's unconstitutional. [22:20] It's an example of Trump taking his executive authority, [22:23] blowing it past all the rules and norms, [22:26] politicizing our military while he tries to terrorize our cities. [22:30] And it shouldn't be lost on anyone, [22:31] that he's focused on blue cities. [22:33] He's not trying to enforce immigration in Houston, Texas. [22:37] No, he's coming up here to terrorize blue cities with American troops, [22:42] with federal agents, hired a whole bunch of thugs into ICE. [22:46] And that's why I have been so clear. [22:48] I was the first in this race to say that ICE not only needs to be abolished, [22:51] they need to be prosecuted. [22:53] We need to hold them accountable to the law. [22:55] I put forward the Nome Act. [22:57] Thankfully, it's not necessary anymore because Christy Nome is gone. [23:01] But she's a great example of why it's not enough just to even abolish ICE. [23:05] She needs to be prosecuted for the crimes she committed. [23:08] She doesn't just get to ride off into the sunset on her horse with Corey Lewandowski. [23:11] They need to be held accountable. [23:14] This is a gross corruption of our Constitution, [23:17] and it's damaging to our troops as well. [23:19] Rebuttal. [23:20] Okay, now let me explain to everyone why I didn't say never. [23:25] Seth said never. [23:26] Let me give you an appropriate time when you would use the military. [23:28] I think of one of my favorite Republicans, Dwight Eisenhower, [23:32] who sent the 101st Airborne when nine little black kids tried to walk through the front door [23:37] of Arkansas Central High School, and they were blocked by Southern Democrats and prevented, [23:43] and the 101st Airborne was called to walk those black children to class. [23:47] That's why I don't use these absolute words, but I got to get to this ICE thing. [23:52] Well, look, really quickly. [23:54] Let him clarify, and then you continue. [23:55] Between using troops to support and enforce the Constitution versus using them to corrupt it. [24:01] That's a big difference. [24:02] Go ahead. [24:03] I agree. [24:04] I agree with you, Seth. [24:05] I'm just saying that's why I don't use these political absolutisms like never. [24:09] Now, this is the thing about politics I wish everyone out there. [24:14] Seth says that we got to abolish and prosecute ICE. [24:18] To everyone out there, that is, abolish ICE is not a policy. [24:23] It's a slogan in an election year. [24:25] Does it sound familiar to defund the police six years ago? [24:29] They're doing it to raise money and to create division and havoc. [24:33] You know, and here's an example. [24:35] Markey in 2013 voted for the detention bed mandate, [24:40] mandating 34,000 ICE beds at a minimum per day. [24:45] Other Democrats called it a massive tool deportation, but that was Ed Markey. [24:49] I bet a lot of his supporters don't know that. [24:51] And then he goes, we got to abolish ICE. [24:53] Seth thanked ICE in 2025, but now he wants to abolish them. [24:58] Go ahead. [24:59] Let him respond. [24:59] It's why I reject this politics of division. [25:02] Response. [25:03] First of all, you're believing a totally false ad that multiple independent fact-checkers have said is wrong. [25:08] I was not only the first in this race to call for abolishing and prosecuting ICE, [25:12] but I went to Minneapolis to be on the ground with those patriotic Americans [25:16] standing up for immigrants, for families, and for our constitutional values. [25:20] I've been fighting every single day to hold Trump and the administration accountable, [25:25] and I've been very aggressive of going after them and not afraid to have this battle on Will Cain, [25:29] on Sean Hannity, going on into the Fox's den to take on MAGA Republicans who enable this behavior. [25:35] But let me just ask you, John, if you think you can't abolish ICE, [25:39] why is it that you support Trump abolishing the Department of Education? [25:43] He can abolish the Department of Education so kids can't even get their loans paid back, [25:47] and yet we can't abolish ICE when it's terrorizing our cities? [25:50] You notice how the congressman tries to invoke Trump and me anytime he can. [25:56] He knows that I didn't support President Trump, so he's going to make all these assumptions. [25:59] But you're going to vote for him in the Senate if you go there. [26:01] I'm going to vote my conscience, things that you people in Congress don't vote. [26:07] I don't have loyalty to a party. I don't have loyalty to a person. [26:10] I don't have loyalty to an agenda. [26:12] Listen, this is what's crazy about immigration. [26:15] They use immigration, abortion, and transgender issues to divide this country. [26:20] They use it to fundraise. [26:21] When I say they, I mean the far right and the far left to divide people up [26:26] and drive outrage so they can raise money on those three issues [26:30] because Tom Homan, who you want prosecuted, got an award from President Obama in 2015, [26:36] the highest award you can get for deporting people, 3.1 million people. [26:41] You do not end federal immigration enforcement in our country. [26:45] Let him in. [26:46] That's obscene. [26:47] Okay, but that was under President Obama. [26:49] Under President Trump, he got a bag full of $40,000 in cash. [26:54] You think that should be celebrated? [26:55] I mean, this is the most corrupt administration in history. [26:59] And the fact that you would use Tom Homan as an example of someone that we should celebrate [27:03] when he should be imprisoned today for taking a massive bribe that's been well-documented. [27:08] I mean, this is why prosecuting these officials is so important. [27:13] We can't just turn the page on the Trump administration. [27:15] And by the way, I think this is part of why we need new leadership in the Democratic Party. [27:19] I don't think Senator Schumer is getting the job done when it comes to really holding the [27:23] Trump administration officials accountable. [27:26] When Democrats take back power, we can't just go back and pretend that things are fine. [27:30] We can't just rebuild things the way they were before. [27:33] We have got to reform our government to make sure that this abuse of power, [27:37] this gross corruption of our Constitution and our government never happens again. [27:41] Go ahead. [27:41] Let me ask you a question. [27:42] First of all, it was President Obama, I'm pretty sure you voted for him, that celebrated Tom Homan. [27:47] When he celebrated him under Obama, but he took the bribe under Trump. [27:51] Let me ask you a question. [27:52] It's my time now. [27:52] Let me ask you a question, Seth. [27:54] Do you agree with President Obama when he deported 3.1 million people, illegals, in this country? [28:00] Do you agree that that was necessary and good? [28:02] Look, I think that Obama was very aggressive with deportations. [28:06] So you disagree? [28:07] I don't know that I would. [28:08] Look, I don't know. [28:09] Of course, you're in the primary. [28:10] Let him answer. [28:11] Let him answer. [28:11] That's enough to say. [28:12] That's right. [28:12] Okay. [28:12] My problem is that we need fundamental immigration reform. [28:18] We need fundamental immigration reform. [28:20] Why'd you vote against him? [28:21] Because right now, it's harder. [28:23] It's harder to actually go through the process to become a citizen than it is to just walk across the border. [28:29] And that's fundamentally wrong. [28:30] We need to incentivize legal immigration while disincentivizing illegal immigration. [28:35] I want everybody to understand what the pathway to citizenship is, that if I do these things, I pay my taxes, then I will get there. [28:44] And where I disagree with President Obama is he deported all these people without showing that pathway to citizenship, without showing people another way, what they could do to earn the citizenship that we all treasure. [28:55] About a minute left. [28:55] I'm going to have you split it. [28:56] Go ahead. [28:57] 30 seconds, please. [28:58] I'm going to hold him accountable because he said we need immigration reform. [29:01] You voted against the Lake and Riley Act. [29:04] Bipartisan. [29:05] 33 Democrats in the Senate voted for it. [29:07] Only Ed Markey was one in nine. [29:09] But you want to know what Seth Moten says? [29:11] He says he didn't vote for it because it took due process rights away from people with a charge. [29:17] Seth, you're giving more rights to an illegal who commits a crime than an illegal who doesn't commit a crime. [29:23] Because if you give them full due process and deportation, I'm a lawyer, Seth, deportation is a civil proceeding. [29:30] You don't apply criminal conviction beyond a reasonable doubt where you can get a trial extended three years. [29:36] You're encouraging illegals to come here, commit a crime, and then they get due process rights while we process civilly the ones that don't. [29:45] That's insane, insane, insane. [29:48] Final word. [29:48] We have to take a break afterward. [29:50] Go ahead. [29:50] Process is a constitutional right. [29:52] I'm always going to stand up for the Constitution. [29:54] I'm also going to stand up for our American values. [29:57] And you look at the Statue of Liberty, celebrating, welcoming immigrants and all the contributions they make to America, that's always been central to who we are as Americans. [30:08] And I'm going to fight to get back. [30:09] And he also takes an illegal to the Statehouse instead of taking a veteran. [30:13] He takes someone who's here illegally. [30:15] You use immigration like the other Democrats and Republicans do. [30:19] You use it to divide us. [30:20] You use it as tokenism. [30:22] You're not. [30:22] Let him. [30:23] If you meant for real reform, you would have voted for the Lake and Riley Act. [30:26] I didn't take Marcel to the Statehouse. [30:29] I took him to the State of the Union in the United States Congress. [30:31] He was proud to go, and I was proud to have him there, because he is an amazing example of what immigrants can do for this country. [30:38] Gentlemen, plenty of time for you to continue this and expand on your comments after we take a break, as the U.S. Senate pre-primary debate here on WBZ continues. [30:52] Stay with us. [30:57] Welcome back to the U.S. Senate pre-primary debate between Republican John Deaton and Democrat Seth Moulton. [31:04] All right, gentlemen, we finished up the first half talking about immigration. [31:07] Let's do a bit more on that topic, and you'll go first here, Mr. Deaton. [31:13] Did I mess that up? [31:16] That's all right. [31:16] I'm sorry. [31:17] You'll go first, Mr. Moulton. [31:19] As of last month, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says it'll start enforcing the law that requires temporary visitors who want a green card to return to their home country to apply, except in extraordinary circumstances. [31:35] Agree or disagree? [31:36] One minute. [31:37] I absolutely disagree, because you cannot trust the Trump administration to define extraordinary circumstances. [31:43] I mean, this is the administration that has said to American citizens, you can't travel to Haiti. [31:48] It's too dangerous. [31:49] And yet wants to end temporary protective status for thousands and thousands of Haitians, including a lot of people here in Massachusetts, that Massachusetts residents depend upon. [31:59] I mean, if anyone who has an older relative in a nursing home understands how critical Haitians are to our community, to our economy. [32:07] And the idea that the Trump administration would say, oh, yeah, go ahead, go back to this country that's too dangerous for Americans to go to just to go get a green card from a government that's totally dysfunctional, that's absurd. [32:19] They've said the same thing about Afghanistan, you know, I've fought hard to bring Afghan interpreters along with many other veterans here to the United States because they risked their lives not only for Afghanistan, but for us. [32:31] We made a promise to them, an American promise that we have to uphold the Trump administration wants to throw that promise out, actually endanger the lives of veterans who are going to depend upon translators like that or servicemen and women who are going to depend on translators like that in the future and send them back to a country where they will get killed for who they are. [32:50] Thank you, Mr. Deaton, one minute. [32:52] Listen, immigration, as I said before, is used to divide us. [32:57] They could have solved it. [32:58] The bipartisan bill, Seth voted against it. [33:01] Ed Markey objected to 2,500 illegals per day as a cap, as a cap. [33:07] We've got to have a reform of our system and to do it in a humane way. [33:12] Listen, Seth, the reason we have Donald Trump as president, to be blunt, isn't because of transgender issues, sir. [33:20] When you gave that interview, it's because your administration that you were a part of opened the border. [33:27] I went to the border. [33:28] I used to work at the border in Yuma, Arizona, as a officer, as the top law enforcement officer in Yuma. [33:35] And we battled illegal immigration. [33:37] And the point that I'm getting at is that you could have solved it and you didn't. [33:43] 12 million people came through our door and you want to return to that. [33:46] We've got to expand legal immigration in this country. [33:51] Expand it, but we've got to have a zero tolerance for illegal immigration. [33:55] And on asylum, like I said, I'm a lawyer. [33:57] I know this. [33:57] I've been a federal prosecutor. [33:59] Asylum laws, you're supposed to seek asylum in the first country of which you're not being persecuted. [34:05] But yet, they travel through Mexico or Canada to get to the United States. [34:09] If they were truly asylum seekers, they would have sought asylum in Mexico and Canada. [34:14] We've got to have sensible, common-sense solutions. [34:17] I have them. [34:18] And that's what I'll support when I get to the Senate. [34:20] Rebuttal. [34:20] It's kind of amazing that Trump and the MAGA Republicans always talk about fixing our immigration problem. [34:25] And yet, for 25 years, they haven't done a thing, even when they have had control of all of Washington. [34:31] Like they do today, John. [34:34] Trump in the White House, Republicans control the Senate and the House. [34:38] Where is the immigration reform? [34:39] In fact, a Republican in the Senate led an immigration reform effort. [34:43] It was bipartisan just a couple years ago. [34:46] And why did that get stopped? [34:48] Because Donald Trump came in and said, nope, I don't want a deal. [34:52] I want to make it in an election issue. [34:54] How long is President Trump in the White House? [34:54] He wants to politicize. [34:56] What did he do for his four years? [34:59] What did he do for his first four years? [35:01] They controlled the House and the Senate for two of those four years. [35:06] They did nothing. [35:07] Back under George W. Bush. [35:09] George W. Bush, not someone I agree with on many things at all, but he did propose immigration reform. [35:14] Who sunk it? [35:15] House Republicans. [35:16] This is the problem, is that Republicans continue to enable this hateful agenda. [35:21] This agenda where they don't want to reform anything. [35:23] In fact, look, the only thing the Republican Party has done two things, basically, in the last 25 years. [35:28] They've cut taxes for the rich and they start wars we don't need. [35:31] They started wars we don't need. [35:33] All right? [35:33] Two things. [35:34] Cut taxes for the rich and start wars we don't need. [35:36] That's not a very good partisan record. [35:38] That's why I'm proud to be a Democrat and not a Republican. [35:40] Let me introduce myself. [35:42] I'm John Deaton. [35:42] I'm debating you, not Donald Trump. [35:45] I didn't support President Trump for three times, but you suffer from being... [35:49] Then why aren't you running as an independent? [35:50] I didn't interrupt you. [35:51] I did not interrupt you. [35:53] You act like he's been president for the last two years. [35:55] Yes, you guys could have solved it, Seth. [35:58] You could have solved it when Biden had the House and he had the Senate, when Obama had [36:02] the House and Senate, and when Obama deported 3.1 million, you're like, oh, I think I disagree [36:07] with that, too. [36:07] You cannot have an open border in this country, and that's what you did. [36:12] And that's why when you went to the New York Times to interview why the Democrats lost and [36:17] why someone as bad as Donald Trump, with all the chaos he brings, why he would be reelected, [36:23] what did you say? [36:24] You didn't talk about open borders. [36:26] You didn't talk about inflation. [36:28] You said, oh, it's the transgender community. [36:30] I see that's not true. [36:30] You scapegoated him. [36:31] If you go back to that interview, I talked about three things. [36:36] Inflation, immigration, and just being willing to have an honest discussion about contentious [36:41] issues like transgender rights, which I fully support, but I'm just saying we ought to be [36:45] able to have a debate with that within the dependent Democratic Party, or else Republicans [36:48] are going to set an agenda, and it's going to be hateful against the very people that deserve [36:53] our protection, that the Democratic Party is the only party willing to protect. [36:57] So actually, I did talk about immigration, but I think, look, John's criticism [37:00] of me here, is that I just, you know, stand with Democrats on immigration, which is true. [37:07] No, you run for President, you run for Senate. [37:08] But let me just tell you, but wait a minute, instead of just, you know, you're complaining [37:12] about being equated with Trump, I'm just saying. [37:14] I'm not equated anyway. [37:15] I'm just saying you're going to go to Washington and support him, all right? [37:18] No, I'm not. [37:19] But if you want to. [37:20] I'm going to go support the Constitution and my conscience. [37:23] That's what I'm going to support. [37:24] Just for the record, you are interrupting a lot, but I want a chance to respond and just say [37:30] what my immigration policy is, okay? [37:32] Because I think people deserve to hear that. [37:34] Not just saying, well, you agreed or disagreed with what Obama did. [37:38] I think there's three things. [37:39] One, we need to prosecute the federal officials who are supposed to be enforcing our laws, [37:44] but are corrupting them instead and think they're above them. [37:47] So prosecute ICE. [37:48] Number two, create an immigration system that actually incentivizes people to come here legally [37:53] rather than illegally. [37:55] And third, have a pathway to citizenship for people who've been a part of our community [37:59] and want to become citizens, want to earn that right and do the right thing. [38:03] Don't want to show up for an immigration appointment to follow the law and get deported [38:07] for trying to do the right thing. [38:08] Go ahead, then. [38:09] I want to move on, please, gentlemen. [38:10] Yes, listen. [38:12] Immigration, like I said, being used. [38:14] Seth, you could have solved the problem. [38:17] You didn't. [38:18] Under Barack Obama, which clearly you disagree, we had this process called secure communities. [38:23] And when someone was arrested, like in Plymouth, their fingerprints and information would be [38:28] shared with FBI and ICE. [38:30] And if that person was illegal and committed child rape, ICE would go to the prison because [38:35] they cooperated. [38:37] And that bad guy would get out of our country. [38:39] But Seth and the people like him, like Ed Markey, they don't favor that. [38:43] They want sanctuary policies where you don't even cooperate with the authorities. [38:48] Under Barack Obama, we had that policy. [38:51] We didn't have sanctuary policies that are destroying this state. [38:55] Seth, you used your office as a sanctuary office for Marcello. [39:00] Okay. [39:00] Yeah, you name-checked you directly. [39:02] Go ahead. [39:02] Really quick point on just basic facts here. [39:04] President Obama was president for eight years. [39:06] I was only there for two. [39:08] So, I mean, I very much support. [39:10] Yes, and I'm happy to say that, but I think it's a little bit rich to sort of say, okay, [39:16] it's my fault for the things that happened when I was just still in the Marine Corps and [39:20] he was president. [39:20] But the point is that I have a forward-looking agenda. [39:23] And we can all admit that the immigration system right now is not working, that Trump's [39:28] corrupting it, that he's trying to use ICE to terrorize our cities rather than even [39:32] enforce immigration. [39:33] And what we need to do is have a forward-looking agenda. [39:36] And that's why I put forward, I just shared a forward-looking agenda on immigration. [39:40] All right, gentlemen, this is great, but we've talked a lot about this, and we do have [39:45] other important topics to get to. [39:47] Well, I hope we go back to his interview. [39:49] All right, you can return to that later if you want. [39:52] You know the format. [39:53] So, in your campaigns, you both talk about trying to ease the cost of living here in [39:59] Massachusetts. [40:00] And one of the major pressure points on the cost of living is energy costs, which are often [40:07] driven up by steps government takes to protect the environment, which is another thing voters [40:13] care about, the environment. [40:15] So, we're starting with you, Mr. Deaton. [40:17] Give us an example of how you, as our senator, would balance environmental protection with economic [40:25] impact. [40:25] Absolutely, Aaron. [40:26] Energy is one of the top issues. [40:29] And the reason why Senator Markey and Chevy Chase Maryland pays less than half what we [40:34] pay for electricity is because Maryland hasn't adopted his policies like Green New Deal and [40:39] offshore wind. [40:40] I got a proposal, and I can get these nuclear credits as your senator, because your senator, [40:45] I can go fight for these credits. [40:46] We put four SMR, small modular reactors, across the commonwealth. [40:51] We power 40% of our electricity, the 40%, the 2.9 million residential homes at half the [41:00] cost we're doing it now. [41:01] A study showed that if we expand natural gas and go nuclear and abandon this insane Green [41:06] New Deal nonsense that Seth supported, by the way, when he was running for president, [41:12] he didn't. [41:12] Now he's in a primary. [41:13] He's back to supporting it. [41:14] If we abandon that, go nuclear, which is zero carbon emissions and so much cheaper. [41:21] If we do that, we'll save people $600 per month in your electricity. [41:26] I got a plan to do it. [41:27] I will lower your prices. [41:29] Go ahead. [41:29] One minute. [41:30] A lot of this is just supply and demand. [41:32] You know, if you don't have enough supply, if people demand electricity, prices go too high. [41:37] And why don't we have enough electricity in Massachusetts? [41:39] Well, we actually had a great plan to produce more power, and Trump canceled it. [41:42] We had an environmentally friendly, good plan to do environmentally approved wind power. [41:49] And what has Trump done? [41:51] Yanked it away from us. [41:52] You're against nuclear? [41:53] And by the way, no, no, I didn't say that. [41:54] I said wind. [41:56] And why, and by the way, Texas actually produces a lot of wind. [41:59] You don't see him going after wind power in Texas. [42:02] Why? [42:02] Because his policies are politically motivated, not following the facts. [42:08] They don't do what's right for the country. [42:10] They're not lowering energy bills. [42:12] I mean, look, Trump's unbelievably dumb war in Iran has jacked up energy prices more than anything. [42:18] More than absolutely anything. [42:20] I mean, people can't even afford gas at the pump, let alone their electricity prices, because of Trump's war in Iran. [42:27] So the first thing I'll do, by the way, is just get that wind power back. [42:31] Okay, listen, their plan on offshore wind and wind and solar, I have solar panels. [42:38] By the way, Ed Markey doesn't have solar panels on his house. [42:40] I have solar panels on my house. [42:41] But when it's buried in snow and it's 4 o'clock p.m. on January and it's dead dark, it doesn't work. [42:48] It actually depends on fossil fuels. [42:50] But here's the thing about Seth. [42:51] In 2018, he did a press release that said that he agreed with the Green New Deal. [42:58] Then he ran for president and he criticized the Green New Deal. [43:02] And I'm just curious, now that you're fighting for progressive votes in a primary, [43:07] are you going to abandon Mr. Moderate and go back to Mr. Progressive and support the Green New Deal? [43:12] This fairy tale, this $90 trillion fairy tale. [43:16] Let him respond. [43:17] The Green New Deal is not perfect. [43:18] You're able to criticize things that are not perfect, but I've co-sponsored it every single time it's come up [43:24] because I think we need to have a better plan for the future. [43:27] And I'm proud of that. [43:28] And by the way, you know, wind has to be part of that solution. [43:31] I also think the fishermen have some legitimate concerns that have to be addressed [43:35] and you have to follow the environmental process to get that approved. [43:37] But the point is that after those processes have been followed, [43:41] after Massachusetts has decided to advance this, which is not going to solve everything, [43:45] but it's part of the solution, Trump just took it away. [43:49] Why? [43:49] Because of political vindictiveness against Massachusetts. [43:52] And Massachusetts deserves someone who's going to fight for Massachusetts, [43:55] who's going to stand to the Trump administration and say that when you're yanking NIH dollars away [44:00] from our universities, when you're taking power away so it jacks up Americans in Massachusetts residents' electricity bills, [44:07] we're not going to stand for that. [44:08] I'm not going to go to the Senate and just vote along with every other Republican to endorse these policies, [44:13] regardless of whether or not you happen to vote for Trump in an election. [44:16] We need someone who's going to fight that. [44:18] And that's why I'm in this race. [44:19] Okay, independent voice is what Massachusetts needs. [44:24] Seth Moulton, as you just noticed, he says Trump every single time he can. [44:28] I want everyone out there to know that the next U.S. Senate for Massachusetts gets sworn in in January of 2027. [44:35] President Trump will have only two years left. [44:37] And yet their entire platform... [44:39] He can do a lot of damage in a few years. [44:40] Their entire platform is that they're going to fight against Trump. [44:43] It's time you had someone who's going to fight for you. [44:46] And saying you're going to fight against someone for two-thirds of the time of the term isn't going to be there [44:52] is not what Massachusetts needs. [44:54] And I hope... [44:55] We need to go back to that interview because he said something about he supports transgender issues, [45:01] and we've really got to address that because he literally... [45:04] All right, go ahead, but briefly, please. [45:08] First of all, one thing you learn in the Marines is you know how to fight, [45:12] and you've got to know who your enemy is. [45:13] And the enemy of Massachusetts people today is Donald Trump. [45:17] Because there's no one who's doing more to abandon our Constitution. [45:21] No one who's doing more to corrupt our government. [45:24] No one who's doing more to raise prices so that people can't afford to rent a home. [45:28] People can't afford to send their kids to a good school. [45:31] People can't afford... [45:32] They can't afford to simply get health care. [45:36] Donald Trump and the Republicans have taken away health care from millions and millions of Americans... [45:40] Americans with the one big, beautiful bill, which, John, my understanding is you basically support. [45:46] You basically support the one big, beautiful bill. [45:48] It's my turn. [45:49] What I said was this is what you need from a senator. [45:52] When the big, beautiful bill was being proposed, someone said, [45:55] John, do you support that? [45:56] And I said, let me tell you what I do in the Senate. [45:58] I say, what's Massachusetts getting? [46:00] I got two Cape Cod bridges that are functionally obsolete that need money. [46:04] They're not getting it done. [46:06] I got infrastructure needs. [46:07] I need low-income housing credits. [46:09] I need energy credits. [46:10] I need billions of dollars to come to Massachusetts in order for me to support that bill. [46:16] Lisa Murkowski did that in Alaska. [46:18] Even though it increased the deficit, she said, listen, I have a dual role. [46:22] I got to do what's right for the country and for Alaska. [46:24] You need a fighter like that who's not going to play these partisan politics. [46:28] And you notice he never wants to go back to that original issue. [46:32] I'm going to give him the last word and then we're going to move on. [46:34] We've got a fighter in the statehouse in Maura Healey who is getting that done. [46:37] She is getting those bridges built despite the fact that the Trump administration keeps [46:42] trying to yank that money away that Massachusetts has earned. [46:45] That's why we need someone who's going to, who's being willing to fight them. [46:48] Okay. [46:48] So no matter who the president is, if the president's Gavin Newsom, when I'm in the Senate, I'm going [46:53] to work with him. [46:54] It shouldn't matter who the president is. [46:56] If you have one test and is it good for Massachusetts in America, you support it. [47:01] If it's not, you don't, and you don't get consumed with your, I hate this guy or I love this guy. [47:07] The criticism of John Deaton is always the same by the extremes. [47:11] I either don't love Trump enough or I don't hate Trump enough. [47:14] The reality is I don't give a, you know what about Trump or all your partisan politics. [47:19] I care about work and families. [47:21] I care about those kids that are going to bed hungry because of your policies. [47:26] I'll give you equal time if you want it. [47:27] Otherwise, I do want to move on. [47:29] I'll be very brief. [47:30] Okay. [47:31] Trump is terrible for Massachusetts. [47:33] Okay. [47:34] And we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that. [47:35] All right. [47:36] I didn't vote for him. [47:37] All right. [47:37] You mentioned the statehouse. [47:39] This, and you'll go first here, Mr. Moulton, this is not a federal issue, but it may help [47:44] enlighten voters on your view of government transparency. [47:48] You both vote in Massachusetts, obviously, right? [47:51] How did you vote on the 2024 ballot question, authorizing the state auditor to audit the legislature? [47:58] And what do you make of the fact that a year and a half later, that's still not happening? [48:02] One minute, please. [48:03] I voted yes. [48:04] I voted yes. [48:04] Because I think we do need transparency in government. [48:06] We need more transparency in government. [48:08] That's why I voted for a lot of transparency in government and issues. [48:12] But I voted with the majority of Massachusetts voters on this. [48:16] And I do think it's wrong. [48:18] And this is an example of where I'm not afraid to criticize my own party, where I'm not afraid [48:22] to challenge the democratic establishment when it's not getting the job done. [48:27] That's why I ran against a nine-term incumbent when I first came to Washington, challenging [48:31] the democratic establishment. [48:33] That's why I was willing to say we need new leadership. [48:36] That's why I said that President Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal was a mess, and we've got to fix it. [48:41] We've got to fix it because people are losing their lives. [48:43] And it's why I challenged the establishment with setting up Serve America to recruit outsiders [48:48] to run for office, not people who just worked their way up through the state legislature, [48:52] but outsiders. [48:53] And with those amazing service-focused veterans, we've flipped 24 seats from red to blue all across [49:00] the country. [49:01] So I'm not afraid to challenge the democratic establishment when it needs to change, and [49:05] I do not agree with the democratic establishment that's trying to protect the state legislature [49:11] from this transparency that Massachusetts voters deserve. [49:14] Mr. Deaton, one minute. [49:15] Yes, listen. [49:16] There is never a greater example of what happens when you have one party in control of everything. [49:22] Every statewide office is a Democrat. [49:24] All nine members of the House are Democrats. [49:26] Both U.S. senators are Democrats. [49:27] And one party rule always ends the same, corruption and arrogance. [49:32] They're so corrupt and so arrogant, they won't enforce a law that 72% of us voted for to fight [49:40] transparency. [49:41] There's only one reason you do that. [49:43] Will you call for the resignation of Ron Mariano and Karen Spilka? [49:46] Because I certainly do. [49:49] I don't want the resignation. [49:50] I just want them to follow what Massachusetts voters voted for. [49:54] And I support that. [49:55] I want to see that happen. [49:56] And by the way, I, along with 28 other taxpayers, sued the legislature when they took $23,000 [50:02] to hire a lawyer to tell them how not to comply with the voter-mandated law. [50:07] You have to do more than just speak, Seth. [50:09] You have to act. [50:10] You can, I'm going to move on, unless you want a few seconds. [50:14] I think my position is very good. [50:15] Okay. [50:16] All right. [50:16] Very good. [50:16] Thank you, gentlemen. [50:17] We have about five and a half minutes left. [50:19] So I'm going to ask you to be succinct on this one, even though it's a big issue that I [50:23] think we'd be remiss not to bring up. [50:25] And we'll start with you, Mr. Deaton. [50:27] When it comes to funding, arms sales, and military support, what should our relationship with [50:35] Israel be going forward? [50:36] One minute, please. [50:37] Let me make this very clear to everyone out there. [50:41] I will not vote for another dollar to go to Ukraine, Israel, Iran, or any other foreign [50:48] nation unless it is proven with verifiable facts that it is in the best interest of America [50:54] and the people of Massachusetts. [50:57] Seth Moulton and Ed Markey, under their administration, the last five years has authorized $400 billion [51:04] in non-military aid to foreign nations. [51:07] When you add in the military arms sales, it's $800 billion to $1 trillion. [51:14] And Ed Markey sits as the chairman on the subcommittee for foreign aid. [51:18] We have Americans working two jobs, not to build for a house, not to save for retirement, just [51:24] to pay the bills, the electric bill and the grocery bill and the rent. [51:29] And they're sending billions and billions of dollars to foreign countries while Americans [51:33] are suffering. [51:34] When I get to the Senate, I will stop that. [51:37] I will never vote for that. [51:39] Now, whether or not he will depends on is APEC endorsing him or not, because his opinion [51:44] varies depending on where they stand. [51:47] Let's let him speak for himself. [51:48] Go ahead. [51:48] One minute. [51:49] My position has never changed. [51:51] APEC has changed. [51:52] And that's why I returned the money they gave to my Senate campaign. [51:54] You returned half the money. [51:55] No, I returned all the money that they gave to my Senate campaign. [51:57] Okay, he's got his minute uninterrupted, please. [51:59] Sorry, Seth. [52:00] Because I think they've become too supportive of just the Netanyahu government. [52:05] And look, I am not afraid to condition aid to Israel like we condition aid to every other [52:10] country on earth. [52:11] And we've got to actually enforce those conditions. [52:14] I also think it's important to provide defensive aid, because a lot of people don't understand [52:17] this, but, you know, we didn't have the missile systems in Iraq to shoot down incoming mortars [52:23] and artillery fire or missiles that were shot at us. [52:26] As a result, the only thing that could be done is to shoot back. [52:29] And that kills people, often innocent civilians, on the other side. [52:32] So when you have defensive aid given to our allies, it not only saves lives in Israel, [52:38] it saves lives on the other side as well. [52:40] And the bottom line is that everybody in the Middle East deserves the same democratic rights [52:46] and freedoms. [52:46] They deserve to not have to worry about being killed from bombs dropped from 30,000 feet [52:52] or by terrorists invading their neighborhood. [52:54] If we could start there and actually have a serious debate about how to get to a two-state [52:59] solution, which, by the way, does not include Bibi Netanyahu. [53:02] As one of the first in Congress to say Netanyahu needs to go because he is not acting in our [53:07] national security interests or the national security interests of Israel. [53:10] But that's where we need to go. [53:11] Okay. [53:11] Rebuttal. [53:12] Listen, this is what Seth Moulton did. [53:14] He begged APEC, look it up, fact check it. [53:17] You'll find that I'm telling you the accurate truth. [53:19] He begged them for months. [53:21] Will you give me an endorsement if I run for Senate? [53:24] When they said no, then Seth turned it into a campaign fundraising gimmick and says, I'm [53:31] returning all of the money. [53:32] And he became critical of APEC. [53:34] That's not how you operate. [53:36] I'm not for sale. [53:38] My vote's not for sale. [53:39] Anyone. [53:40] It's not for sale to Donald Trump. [53:41] It's not for sale to Seth Moulton or Elizabeth Warren or Chuck Schumer or Mitch McConnell. [53:46] It is to the people of Massachusetts. [53:48] That's what you get with John Deaton. [53:50] None of this partisan politics nonsense. [53:53] Mr. Moulton, go ahead. [53:54] I mean, John, that's just not true. [53:56] But I want to also point out, because we are in a competitive race here. [53:58] I'm in a competitive primary that will result in the general election. [54:02] Another important difference between myself and Senator Markey. [54:06] Senator Markey voted to send Marco Rubio to the State Department. [54:09] Senator Markey voted for 61 Trump nominees. [54:14] People, judges who have supported in enforcing the president's anti-transgender executive order. [54:22] Who have supported ending Planned Parenthood and argued against Planned Parenthood [54:27] in Planned Parenthood versus Casey. [54:30] These are people who have actually enabled ICE. [54:36] I'm not going to take votes like that. [54:37] I'm not going to vote to send someone like Marco Rubio, who, let's admit, that guy's a snake, okay? [54:43] I'm not going to vote to send him to the State Department, where all he's doing is starting wars, [54:48] where all he's doing is just enabling this violence in the Middle East. [54:52] That's a fundamental problem here. [54:53] By the way, of those 61 Trump nominees that Senator Markey voted for, Senator Warren and Senator Sanders voted against almost all of them. [55:03] So that's an important difference here in this race that I think has implications for what's going on in the Middle East. [55:09] You've got 30 seconds. I'm sorry. [55:10] If flip-flopping was a sport, Seth Moulton would be an Olympic champion. [55:14] Let me tell you something. I brought up APEC. I brought up earlier how he blamed the transgender community, but now he's in a primary. [55:22] He is a co-sponsor of the Equality Act, which allows shared access in bathrooms, showers, prisons, shelters for anyone based on gender identity. [55:32] We have to draw some red lines, and it should go through. [55:34] Guys, I've got to call a halt. [55:35] My voting record on transgender issues is 100%, but the point is we've got to have a debate. [55:40] And, John, thank you for having us today tonight. [55:42] That was an interesting debate. [55:44] Gentlemen, thank you both. [55:45] Thank you. [55:45] Thank you for watching. [55:46] Stay tuned to WBZ throughout this election year for much, much more.