Pramila Jayapal calls U.S. oil blockade on Cuba ‘outrageous’: Full interview

[0:00] And joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington. Congresswoman [0:04] Jayapal, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thank you so much, Kristen. It's great to be with you. [0:12] It's great to have you back. I do want to start on Cuba. You actually just came back from a five-day [0:18] congressional delegation in Cuba where you did meet with President Diaz-Canel. You heard him say [0:24] in the interview that he effectively would not commit to the broad asks of the United States, [0:31] including releasing political prisoners, committing to holding multi-party elections. [0:37] Do you think Cuba needs to take those steps in order to move toward normalization with the United [0:42] States? Kristen, I think what is really important and what he said to us and what I heard him saying [0:51] this morning as well on the interview is that there need to be real negotiations. And that has [0:57] been a frustration for Cuba, that there hasn't been a real negotiation with agenda items on the [1:04] table for the United States and for Cuba. And I think there is a real desire for, appropriate [1:10] desire for America to respect Cuba's sovereignty. The embargo is the longest running embargo against [1:19] any country in world history. The fuel blockade is just the latest part of that. But the humanitarian [1:25] crisis on the ground and the collective punishment and cruelty towards the Cuban people, civilians, [1:32] by the United States foreign policy is really outrageous. And I feel from my visit to Cuba that [1:39] Americans would not want that to continue if they understood what was actually happening on the [1:45] ground. And so that's why we were there for five days to hear from all sides. We met with political [1:51] dissidents. We met with the president, as you mentioned. We met with civil society organizations, [1:56] religious leaders, entrepreneurs, people who see the opportunity for a real normalization of [2:03] relations between the United States and Cuba. Well, and Congresswoman, I wonder if you met with [2:08] the political prisoners. There's still more than 1,200 of them. And in my conversation with [2:14] President Diaz-Canel, he would not commit to releasing any of them. You have obviously talked [2:21] about this. You just said you met with a number of people. Do you believe Cuba needs to release its [2:26] 1,200 political prisoners in order for negotiations to move forward effectively? [2:35] I do. And this has been something that I've raised directly with the president, [2:39] both this time and two years ago when I was in Cuba. I think that was the last time there were any [2:45] members of Congress there. I think I've been the last person to visit Cuba twice in the last two years. [2:50] Last time I actually met with the families of political prisoners, we took a list in to the [2:56] president. And I think that what I have heard from the Cuban government is let's put all these items [3:03] on the table. He did just announce that they were releasing 2,000 prisoners. Not all of those are [3:09] political prisoners, but we understand that some of them are. And I think that this is the kind of [3:15] thing that we should push for in an actual country to country negotiation, not a dialogue, [3:22] but a negotiation with actual items on the agenda. That's how we're going to move forward is through [3:27] that kind of diplomacy, not through, you know, an economic bombing of the infrastructure of Cuba [3:34] that hurts just everyday civilians and inflicts a level of cruelty onto the Cuban people. [3:42] Yeah, no, you're right. There's a lot of skepticism about whether any of those 2,000 [3:46] were political prisoners at all. Very quickly, do you believe President Diaz-Canal is the best [3:51] person to lead Cuba? Or do you agree with the Trump administration that there needs to be an [3:56] overhaul in Cuban leadership? I don't think it is for the United States to determine who leads [4:05] another country. I don't think we would like that here in the United States. And I don't think that [4:09] it's appropriate for us to dismiss the sovereignty of civilians in other countries to choose [4:16] their leaders. And so I think the way we get to a true democratic future for Cuba with dignity and [4:23] freedom is by those negotiations and ultimately by the ability for the Cuban people to thrive [4:30] and for freedom to reign across Cuba. That's not through blockading a drop of oil from reaching [4:38] an island through bombing the economic infrastructure of the island and through maximalist foreign policy [4:45] pressures threatening military intervention. It's through negotiation and diplomacy. That's how we [4:51] get there. Congresswoman, let's talk about Iran now. As you know, Vice President J.D. Vance [4:56] announcing no deal after marathon talks with Iran in Pakistan. Do you support these negotiations as a [5:04] way to bring an end to this war? Do you think that is the best way to bring an end to it? [5:12] I do, Kristen, absolutely support negotiations. Let's remember that it was Donald Trump who took us [5:20] out of and negotiated nuclear arms deal with Iran that was negotiated by President Obama in 2015. [5:27] Donald Trump removed us from that in 2018. And that is what has led us to the place that we're in. [5:33] Those negotiations took over two years. I don't think that in this situation that we were [5:39] necessarily going to get to an agreement again with a day of negotiations. I'm, you know, I feel good [5:47] that perhaps there's still a path for these negotiations. But we should be clear, Donald Trump [5:52] got us into this mess. He went into a war with Iran that was unauthorized and illegal. And because of [6:00] that, we are in the mess that we're in now. There was no strategy, no plan, no authorization. We have, [6:06] we are now spending about one to two billion dollars a day on this war with Iran. And it is a huge cost [6:13] for the American people with rising energy prices, but also a lack of focus on the domestic issues [6:20] that really drive people's lives. He's saying we don't have money for child care. We don't have [6:25] money for housing because we're at war with Iran. That was a war of choice. That is a war of choice. [6:31] And we should never have been in this position to start with. This is an absolute outrage that this [6:37] is what the Trump administration has gotten us into. And I don't think it's good for the people of the [6:41] United States or for the civilians in Iran, in Lebanon, across the Middle East. I do want to ask you [6:48] about your colleague, Congressman Eric Swalwell. You heard me discussing this with Congressman [6:53] Donald. He's facing allegations of sexual assault from a former staff member, which we should say [6:59] Swalwell says are completely false and politically motivated. Notable, though, House Democratic leader [7:05] Hakeem Jeffries, Senator Adam Schiff, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi are calling for Swalwell to end his run [7:12] for California governor. Do you think that Swalwell should drop out of the gubernatorial race? [7:21] I absolutely do. This is, as you know, I've been very vocal on behalf of survivors of the Epstein scandal. [7:30] And I think that what we are seeing now is an emergence of women across the country who have [7:39] been dismissed, told to shut up, told to move on, who have been abused by men in powerful positions. [7:46] This is not a partisan issue. This cuts across party line. And it is a depravity of the way that [7:52] women have been treated. And I'm just inspired by the courage and the bravery of the women who came [7:58] forward. This is clearly a pattern. I've already called for Congressman Swalwell to drop out of the [8:05] gubernatorial race. And I think we have to hold everybody accountable. Do you think you just heard [8:10] Congressman Donald say he would vote to expel Eric Swalwell? Will you vote to expel Eric Swalwell? [8:20] And Congressman Gonzalez? I would. I've already said that I think that these things, these charges and [8:28] allegations and the pattern of abuse. And in Congressman Gonzalez's case, he actually admitted [8:34] to the affair with the or to, you know, harassment with his staffer. This is also important for staffers [8:43] across the Capitol to see that their bosses don't get to do this to them. So I do think that both of them [8:51] need to step down from Congress, let these investigations happen. You know, but I but I think [8:58] that this is very important that we believe women and that we show people across the Capitol and across [9:05] the country that we will not accept this kind of behavior. [9:08] Very quickly, before I let you go, former Vice President Kamala Harris joined several other [9:14] Democratic leaders at the Al Sharpton Convention this week. She was asked a question about whether [9:19] she was going to run again in 2028. She said, quote, I'm thinking about it. Do you think former Vice [9:25] President Kamala Harris should run for president again in 2028? Is she the strongest person to represent [9:31] Democrats? I think we should have a big contested primary and everyone that thinks that they have an [9:41] opportunity to really represent and show leadership for this country as president should run and should [9:47] make their case and the people should look very carefully at every single candidate. But it should be [9:53] a happy, big, you know, exciting attempt for us to be able to really see who has what it takes to lead [10:03] our party forward. That's what we need, bold leadership. And I'm looking forward to a primary that [10:08] demonstrates that from lots of candidates. All right. Well, it's only 2026, but in some ways it's [10:13] right around the corner. Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you so much for being here this Sunday. We really [10:17] appreciate it. We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top [10:22] stories on the NBC News app or watch live on our YouTube channel.