PBS News Hour full episode, June 12, 2026

[0:04] good evening i'm jeff bennett and i'm amna nawaz on the news hour tonight an agreement with iran [0:10] seems to be on the horizon but uncertainty remains about what's actually in the deal [0:15] and whether it will lead to the end of the war the white house south lawn is set for sunday [0:20] night's cage fight an event decades in the making for president trump and the ufc and bruce [0:26] springsteen reflects on 60 years of performance and protest ahead of the opening of his new [0:33] american music center i believe that culture has impact i believe that culture shapes the nation [0:41] culture shapes our politics major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided by [1:00] the william and flora hewlett foundation for more than 50 years advancing ideas and supporting [1:05] institutions to promote a better world at hewlett.org friends of the news hour including jim and nancy [1:14] bildner and the robert and virginia schiller foundation the judy and peter bloom kovler [1:21] foundation upholding freedom by strengthening democracies at home and abroad and with the [1:32] ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the news hour this program was made [1:56] possible by the contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you thank you welcome to the news [2:07] news hour the u.s and iran both say they are inching closer to a deal today to end the war that the u.s [2:13] and israel started with iran nearly four months ago but as with previous announcements from the u.s [2:19] side in particular there was little in the way of detail on timing and execution of any agreement and [2:25] major differences in the public pronouncements of what exactly is in this so-called memorandum of [2:31] understanding our white house correspondent liz landers has been reporting on this all day and is here to [2:36] update us so liz you were on a briefing call today with the senior white house official what is the [2:41] white house saying is in this deal yeah this call was held because the administration says that they [2:46] are tired of seeing misreporting and the back and forth that we've seen play out on social media about [2:51] this so a senior u.s official laid out what the u.s is asking for right now and what these demands are [2:57] from the u.s side first of all they're demanding that the strait of hormuz be open and that this would [3:02] lift the blockade secondly dismantling of the iranian nuclear program and the u.s removes that [3:09] enriched uranium material that it will be destroyed on site and then taken out of the country that this [3:16] would also guarantee for a long-term peace in the region that iran would no longer fund proxy groups [3:21] that are violent towards other countries and that iran's territorial sovereignty would also be respected [3:27] and then finally enforceable inspection regiment with a long-term commitment now jeff in exchange for [3:34] all of this iran would get sanctions relief which has been crippling for that country for a number of [3:39] years now this official said that going forward they would get rewarded for quote acting like a normal [3:44] country this official was optimistic that the u.s and iran could reach this deal saying they were about [3:49] 80 to 85 percent of the way there they did not give a timeline and when this could be signed but [3:54] acknowledge that it could happen in europe 80 to 85 percent of the way there what about the sticking [3:59] points over iran's nuclear program that remains a sticking point and this u.s official did acknowledge [4:05] that saying that they do believe that this is a direct line to those things but but said quote they [4:12] are committing indefinitely to not build or procure a nuclear weapon and then you know we're going to [4:18] have to figure out exactly how we enforce that and jeff we have heard a number of times from the [4:23] president back and forth over the last few months about striking a deal we'll see if this becomes the [4:28] sticking point again endless today there have been conflicting messages from iran about what they think [4:33] is in the deal bring us up to speed the iranians posted on social media an iranian media outlet said [4:40] this morning that there was a 14-point draft memorandum they posted about this not long afterwards we heard [4:45] from president trump on his social media platform saying that there was a lot of false information [4:50] that was floating around out there and not long after that we heard from the iranian foreign minister [4:56] saying that the memorandum of understanding has never been closer and then the president reposted that [5:01] so seeming like the americans and iranians were you know sort of getting on the same page here now [5:07] though this afternoon we have heard from iran's foreign minister iraqchi saying that the terms of the nuclear [5:13] agreement have to come at a later stage after this first ceasefire is agreed to he said on iranian [5:21] state tv that the ceasefire must include lebanon in part of this and that israel must stop striking [5:30] in that country as hezbollah and israel have been exchanging strikes for weeks now iraqchi also said that [5:37] the management of the strait of hormuz would not return to the pre-war era that the sovereignty of the [5:42] strait of hormuz belonged to iran and oman that iranian frozen funds would be released this could [5:49] also be a sticking point and that most importantly i think down blending the highly enriched uranium [5:56] stockpile that is very different than what we heard from the u.s official lots to track to say [6:00] the least liz landers thanks as always of course now to parse the statements the motivations and the [6:05] potential outcomes of this latest attempt to end the war we're again joined by two of our iran watchers [6:11] alan ayer worked in the state department and was a senior member of the obama administration's [6:16] negotiating team for the 2015 iran nuclear deal he's now at the middle east institute and miyad [6:22] maliki was born and raised in iran until last year he was the associate director for sanctioned [6:27] targeting in the u.s treasury department with a focus on iran he's now a senior fellow at the [6:32] foundation for the defense of democracies welcome back to you both alan i'll start with you [6:36] you heard liz report iran and the u.s both saying they are close to an agreement what one side says [6:42] is in the deal is not what the other side is saying and each blames the other for misrepresenting [6:47] the deal what is going on here in your view again we're close to a deal we've been close to a deal [6:55] many times but close doesn't count 85 is actually sort of terrifying because the closer you get the [7:01] harder it is but it does seem both sides want a deal both sides seem to realize that escal military [7:10] escalation isn't really going to help either side so in terms of what the deal contains i think we have [7:17] to wait until it's out but i'm fairly confident that the traditional red lines that iran has posited [7:23] will not be violated they're not going to dismantle their nuclear program they're not going to [7:28] export all their heu to the united states so we'll just have to wait and see but the most important [7:34] fact is it looks like there could well be an agreement to begin negotiations and that would be [7:40] great news me and what's your take on this alan says close doesn't count do you agree with that [7:46] um i do i i think here's here's the way that i'm looking at this and and i'm sure um you all remember [7:53] um during the jcpoa negotiations that we were having the same issue that the iranians were [7:59] presenting a different version of what was being negotiated or discussed and what here in dc and [8:05] in washington and in the us we were tracking as far as the talks here a couple things that it's [8:10] very important for the iranians as far as the text of the memorandum of understanding on the nuclear [8:14] issue they really want to make sure that what's being presented in the text it's not a full-on iran [8:21] giving up its enrichment capability or not no commitment to not ever being able to enrich uranium [8:27] listen they would spend 900 or more billion dollars in this nuclear program they've been [8:33] selling this to their population as a as a program that is going to produce electricity and gas and [8:38] it's going to deter foreign aggression when in fact it brought the economy and iran's to where it is [8:44] today uh and and nuclear program that is only producing less than 10 electricity for them so it is [8:50] it is a sacred program they don't want to they wouldn't want to have a deal that presents it as [8:54] completely being taken away from the regime and also on on the frozen assets i think that's another [9:00] area that iranian regime wants that to be presented as a regime receiving these funds or [9:05] these funds being released to the regime on the u.s side i think there's that that that that's not the [9:11] case uh and and i think the u.s government only is ready to maybe restore iran's access to these funds [9:18] for humanitarian trade and that was the case under the biden administration when these funds were [9:22] moved to these gulf tensions and and and that wouldn't be the releasing of funds to the regime [9:27] and that wouldn't be a sanctions relief because these funds are not really blocked they're restricted [9:32] they can be used for non-sanctionable trade which is um which we did for humanitarian trade so alan i [9:37] hear you saying earlier that you don't see iran signing a deal that limits its nuclear ambitions [9:43] in any way or offers any nuclear restrictions right now but how much of an issue is is the potential [9:49] for israel's war in lebanon to continue here we heard from the foreign minister in iran iraqi [9:54] say that there has to be a ceasefire there that requires getting bibi netanyahu on board how do you [9:59] see this playing out well i must have misspoke if you miss if you understood me to say that iran [10:04] would not accept constrictions they're totally willing to accept constrictions the same constrictions [10:09] they've always been willing to accept which is they will put limitations on their nuclear program [10:15] in exchange for money whether that's unblocking frozen assets whether it's sanctions easing whether [10:23] it's reparations uh we'll see if they're going to be able to do service charges or tolling on the [10:29] strait of hormuz but you're right another big spoiler here is iran continues to insist that the ceasefire be [10:37] wide-ranging and include lebanon now prime minister netanyahu is taking a serious hit already domestically [10:43] because he hasn't been able to achieve war goals that he wanted to achieve with iran and if he's [10:48] forced by the u.s administration to stand down on lebanon and on hezbollah leading up to a election for [10:57] prime minister that's toxic for him so look for israel to be a real spoiler in terms of continuing to try to [11:05] to spark a military escalation uh with iran what's your take on that and also this question of whether or [11:12] not the u.s is better off now than it was before this war began have u.s interests been advanced [11:19] well just just kind of reacting to what alan said i think you know one one thing that is is a fact [11:24] about this regime is that you know the more the islamic republic fails domestically and i would say [11:31] the narrower its base of supporters become the more it really turns outward exporting its revolution [11:37] expanding its destabilizing influence to really satisfy that ideological commitments that it can no [11:43] longer fulfill at home those promises that they've made to their core supporters and that is done [11:48] through their proxy forces they really want to maintain hezbollah's ability to their israel to [11:55] cause chaos and and fear in israel and and it's important for them to do that and they can commit [12:00] that it will never support proxy groups they made those commitments before but it's a covert operation [12:05] so they can do whatever they want behind closed doors in in covert fashion so so it is important but i [12:11] think at the same time they can make that commitment yet go back to supporting hezbollah and and that [12:15] that will continue to cause issues with israel now um on on the um um you know kind of a broader issue [12:22] whether whether we're better off now today i think again it's the fact that the iranian regime has been [12:30] military economically during a very bad shape i've said this before two three years ago they were setting [12:35] up drones and missile facilities in our backyard in venezuela today they're really facing significant [12:42] issues domestically even keeping things together so that the the security threat has been deterred [12:48] or been really delayed for the time being and i think that's that puts us in a much better position [12:53] today okay miad maliki and alan air always great to talk to you both thank you so much thank you [13:01] in the day's other headlines a federal judge says the kennedy center must continue its [13:15] court-ordered removal of president trump's name from the institution by today's deadline scaffolding [13:21] went up at the arts venue earlier today as crews prepared to remove the president's name from the [13:25] exterior this afternoon the justice department filed an emergency motion aimed at keeping it up the [13:31] kennedy center has already removed trump's name from its official website among other places also today [13:37] the washington national opera said it is suing the kennedy center over 17 million dollars in donations [13:43] that it says the center withheld after the two sides split earlier this year a kennedy center [13:49] representative called the lawsuit's claims meritless a federal judge today extended a block on the [13:55] justice department's proposed 1.8 billion dollar anti-weaponization fund the ruling from a court in [14:02] virginia is the strongest step yet to hold the administration to its word that it won't try to [14:08] resurrect the plan earlier this month acting attorney general todd blanche told congress the government [14:13] is scrapping the fund but president trump has hinted that he still supports its creation which would [14:19] give money to those who claim they've been unfairly prosecuted by the government including people who [14:24] were charged with crimes for the january 6 attack on the capitol across parts of illinois and indiana [14:31] residents and cleanup crews are picking up the pieces after tornadoes damaged hundreds of buildings and left [14:37] hundreds of thousands without power there goes that house eyewitnesses saw at least 10 tornadoes touched [14:45] down yesterday evening at least three of them leveled homes trees and power lines south of chicago [14:51] in hard-hit streeter illinois and merrillville indiana entire neighborhoods lie in ruins there have been no [14:58] reports of deaths or serious injuries in west texas police say the suspect in a shooting that left one [15:05] person dead and at least 10 others injured is now deceased eyewitness video caught the sounds of gunfire [15:14] as 45 year old victor mata villarreal barricaded himself inside a building in midland texas the [15:21] shooting itself started hours earlier in another part of the city at a press conference today midland's [15:27] mayor said robot and drone footage was used to confirm the suspect was dead and she paid tribute to those [15:33] affected our thoughts and our prayers are with these families with the community of midland [15:38] and with all of those that were involved today police did not immediately say how the suspect died [15:44] or reveal any information on a possible motive an investigation is ongoing in ohio the fbi has [15:51] reportedly raided the offices of a progressive voting rights organization that's according to multiple [15:57] outlets and was first reported by ms now a board member of the ohio organizing collaborative is [16:03] cited as saying that agents also fanned out across the state approaching group leaders and [16:08] even volunteers they were told it was part of an investigation into the group's voter registration [16:14] efforts the actions come as president trump continues to suggest without evidence that voter fraud is [16:20] rampant in the lead up to the midterm elections the justice department signed off today on paramount's [16:25] 110 billion dollar bid for warner brothers discovery a doj statement obtained by the news hour says the deal is [16:32] quote not likely to result in harm to competition or american consumers and offered no requirements [16:39] or concessions for the deal to proceed it is a major step for paramount ceo david ellison son [16:45] of trump ally larry ellison in his bid to pick up media assets like cnn and hbo max [16:51] but the deal still faces challenges from various state attorneys general including in california elon [16:58] musk became the world's first trillionaire today at least on paper as his company spacex made its [17:04] highly anticipated debut on wall street the rocket and ai company stock closed the day nearly 20 percent [17:10] above its ipo price of 135 a share that values spacex at more than two trillion dollars and helps [17:18] musk himself set a new bar for personal wealth elsewhere on wall street stocks ended higher as oil prices [17:24] cooled once again the dow jones industrial average added around 350 points the nasdaq rose nearly 80 [17:31] points or about a third of one percent the s p 500 also ended the week with a gain and british artist [17:38] and painter david hockney one of the most celebrated art icons of the 20th and 21st centuries died yesterday [17:45] just one month short of his 89th birthday jeffrey brown has a look at his life and legacy a moment [17:53] frozen in time a bigger splash an iconic david hockney painting vivid alive and deceptively simple [18:00] yet capturing a whole story born in bradford england in 1937 hockney was an art star from his 20s first as [18:08] part of the london art scene i'm interested in ways of looking of course people will respond everybody does [18:17] look it's just a question of how hard he was known for bucking art world trends not just painting at [18:25] a time when more conceptual art ruled but painting the human figure his move to los angeles led to [18:31] works that would come to define 1960s and 70s southern california it was really three times better than [18:40] i thought and also openly portray gay life and subjects coming from an england where homosexuality [18:47] was still illegal hockney found in l.a both artistic inspiration and personal freedom for more than [18:53] six decades he helped redefine what painting could be as his work was exhibited regularly worldwide he [19:00] returned throughout his career to portraiture painting friends loved ones and himself when we met at his [19:06] la studio in 2018 he spoke of his fascination with the human face how can you see in them how can you [19:14] really see a person i mean i'm looking at you now thinking of it and i think well how would i know [19:27] if i'd got you really well when i would not really know you hockney also embraced emerging technologies [19:37] throughout his career from photography to digital drawings on iphones and ipads yet he remained one of [19:44] paintings most passionate defenders i know the arguments about painting is dead but painting [19:53] can't die because photography is not good enough actually it's not good enough no it's just a snap [20:03] but i mean why not look longer at something look longer and you maybe see more his death comes less [20:15] than a year after the close of a major retrospective at the louis vuitton foundation in paris you clearly [20:21] like the fact that you're doing something that has been done for a long long time [20:29] well what is new really new isn't anything new under the sun i mean i love painting i love it i've [20:40] lots more to do and he did until the very end david hockney died thursday at his home in london [20:47] he was 88 years old for the pbs newshour i'm jeffrey brown still to come on the news hour how [20:55] children in casa are trying to continue their education amid the rubble david brooks and jonathan [21:01] capehart weigh in on the week's news and bruce springsteen grants a peek inside his new american music [21:08] center this is the pbs news hour from the david m rubenstein studio at weta in washington headquarters [21:18] of pbs news a federal judge today declined to block the white house from hosting cage fights on the [21:28] south lawn on president trump's birthday clearing the way for sunday's event to move forward white [21:33] house correspondent liz landers reports on how the event came together and on the decades-long [21:39] relationship between mr trump and the ufc that helped bring a first of its kind sporting spectacle [21:44] to the white house today the ultimate fighting championship is the premier mixed martial arts [21:50] organization a full contact sport that combines striking and grappling and is worth billions of [21:56] dollars on sunday it takes center stage in american political life yet this is a picture few could have [22:03] imagined back in 1993 when the ufc began eight street tough warriors wage combat in a battle where [22:10] anything can happen and probably will basically at this time there's something called traditional [22:16] martial arts they're all making a bunch of competing claims about what works in a fight [22:20] right and the idea was though that they all live in their own siloed universes what would happen if you [22:25] just put those together and created a sort of set of open rules what would we discover that question the [22:33] lack of rules and the spectacle of violence attracted attention but also scrutiny including from boxing fan and late [22:40] arizona senator john mccain who described the sport as human cockfighting and led efforts to ban it [22:46] in most states and on tv the scrutiny and the ufc's state-by-state efforts at legalization also led to [22:53] more rules and regulations which dana white now credits with saving the sport i think that without [22:58] senator john mccain i probably wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation with you right now you [23:03] know tell me why because i think what you know his stance on the ufc drove them toward um you know and [23:12] and not only them but us when we bought it toward uh regulation and and being regulated by the athletic [23:17] commissions in each state yet the ufc still struggled to stay on its feet in 2001 white who'd been a [23:24] boxing enthusiast and fitness entrepreneur led the purchase of the league for two million dollars home [23:30] tonight to the world's most prestigious mixed martial arts event that same year casino owner and long-time [23:37] fight fan donald trump opened the doors of his taj mahal casino in new jersey for a fight [23:43] a move white says was critical when the trump brand was here and the ufc brand was down there [23:50] he he saw it and said i'd love to have this at my casino as being part of the casino business he was [23:56] sort of very visible in the boxing world in the late 80s and then the early 90s and in fact you'll [24:01] recall he was the guy principally responsible for making the fight between holyfield and foreman [24:07] possible at one of his casinos this was a donald trump driven effort so he's kind of always been [24:12] around the fight game these guys don't realize the opportunity that they have right now but thomas [24:17] says it was the ultimate fighter a 2005 reality show on spike tv that ultimately saved the ufc and despite [24:25] trump joining a short-lived rival to the ufc in 2008 white and trump became close allies donald was [24:32] the first guy that recognized the potential that we saw in the ufc white endorsed trump at the 2016 [24:38] 2020 and 2024 republican national conventions i know donald j trump is the best choice for president [24:47] of the united states in 2024 white also successfully pushed joe rogan the long-time mma announcer whose [24:54] podcast is enormously popular with young men to endorse trump yet luke thomas says the most important [25:01] thing white did for trump was following the assault on the u.s capital on january 6 when he openly [25:07] welcomed trump at ufc events there is no mainstream actor anywhere that did as much to try and rehabilitate [25:17] donald trump's image after january 6 as much as the ultimate fighting championship you want to see [25:21] how important that was to donald trump look at what he is doing for them as part of this payback [25:28] for his part white has said he supports trump on a personal level i mean i'm not a political guy [25:34] i'm not a political guy on the speaking at the conventions you're at the you know triumphant victory [25:40] party and what did i say what did i say when i was at those no they were congratulatory they were [25:46] personal for sure they weren't policy oriented speeches absolutely personal speeches they weren't [25:54] political in any way shape or form on sunday more than 4 000 spectators will attend the fight in person [26:00] on the white house lawn while tens of thousands more will watch in a nearby overflow area alex perera [26:07] is hoping to be the first mma fighter to win in a third weight class the event will be streamed on [26:13] paramount plus which bought the tv rights to the ufc last year for over seven billion dollars the owner [26:19] of paramount skydance david ellison is a trump ally who just received sign off from the justice department [26:25] on his purchase of warner brothers the company that now owns the ufc tko group holdings is footing the [26:32] over 60 million dollar tab for the event last month president trump disclosed that he'd purchased tko's [26:39] stock in addition to the favors being exchanged thomas says trump may be hoping the event boosts [26:44] his image with the young men who make up the mma fan base but who have largely fallen off as supporters [26:51] since his election and while the location of this event and its nature may feel unprecedented in our 250 [26:57] year history thomas says it fits into a long global tradition why was the thriller in manila in manila [27:06] it's because a dictator paid to put it there why was the rumble in the jungle in kinshasa then zaire [27:13] it's because a dictator paid to put it there some of the biggest fights in history are related to [27:19] authoritarian strongmen who had an attachment to combat sports either genuine or transactional or [27:25] some combination of the two trying to either make themselves look better or the country to look [27:29] better or some combination of it for the pbs news hour i'm liz landers for nearly three years [27:47] children in gaza have grown up surrounded by war displacement and loss thousands of children [27:53] have been killed in the israeli strikes that followed the brutal hamas assault on israel on october 7th of [27:59] 2023 even since the ceasefire struck last october between israel and hamas israeli attacks have killed [28:06] some 229 children and still the children of gaza yearned for the normalcy of school and the chance to [28:13] keep learning now school is held in tents and damaged buildings and overcrowded shelters [28:19] ali rogan takes a look at this youngest generation in gaza city a bright solar-powered lamp illuminates [28:28] 11 year old kadi's makeshift classroom i study at night i charge the light in the sun and use it to study [28:38] the room is partly a shattered wall partly a sheet of tarp that was never meant to shelter a family [28:45] surrounded by open windows that let in wind and rain kadi's family has been living here [28:50] since their home was destroyed by an israeli airstrike the children have lost their innocence [28:58] every child in gaza has lost their innocence kadi's father mirhad alhamlawi now says learning [29:05] competes with survival they have stopped thinking about games and toys because they are thinking [29:12] about things that are far too much for their brains to comprehend they are thinking about how to secure [29:16] water and food for their families the starvation we went through give our children harsh lessons for [29:21] decades to come those harsh lessons persist despite the october 2025 ceasefire city streets that were once a [29:32] playground now a graveyard for many of gaza's youngest residents attending funerals is now more common than attending class [29:45] more than 21 000 children have been killed by israeli strikes since the hamas attack in october 2023 [29:52] launching this ruinous war for those who remain their classrooms often look nothing like a school [30:00] we lack many basic educational resources students often have to sit on the ground [30:09] even when we had floodings in gaza the ground was overflowing with water we had to tell our [30:14] students to go home but in the event that we do have tables or chairs students just sit on the chairs [30:20] they don't care about the floodings even schools that have reopened struggle to withstand relentless [30:26] israeli strikes a residential building near the school was targeted we made a quick decision to [30:33] evacuate after about five minutes after the students left the residential building was demolished and [30:38] the school was also damaged according to the united nations more than 97 percent of schools across the gaza [30:46] strip have been damaged or destroyed and yet children keep coming more than any school can hold [30:55] the number of students today is more than a hundred who want to attend but we just don't have the [31:02] capacity the united nations says with high demand and limited space most children in gaza are only able [31:09] to attend a few hours of classes three days of the week but so many children in gaza will never return to [31:17] a classroom in northern gaza 38 year old mahmoud hala digs with his bare hands in search of his whole world [31:26] a december 2023 israeli strike left him the sole survivor of his family the attack killed at least [31:33] 39 people more than two years later hala still returns to the site sifting through the rubble that [31:41] was once a residential building determined to recover the remains of his wife his children [31:46] and the families of his brothers and sisters [31:49] we dig through the rubble with our own hands to find the martyrs it's exhausting for us of course [31:57] but we will not stop until we recover all the bodies and bury them properly for families like mahmoud [32:04] khalas the losses are impossible to measure and for the children growing up amid displacement fear and [32:10] collapsing living conditions aid groups say the trauma now stretches far beyond the battlefield [32:17] now worsening conditions have fueled rodent infestations that add yet another layer of [32:23] issues for most gauzans facing displacement james elder spokesperson for the united nations children's fund [32:31] says that despite unimaginable conditions many parents are still desperate to get their children [32:37] back into the classroom seeing education as one of the few remaining pieces of normal life it was stunning [32:44] to see children you know having spent a day collecting water remembering they used to [32:48] live in homes with taps collecting water because water was so so scarce and then going to a soup [32:55] kitchen and chewing up in this humiliating sense to try and get a bowl of food and then at night time [33:00] going back and maybe if they'd been able to find a solar paneled light studying in the meantime a childhood [33:08] in gaza today is unlike any other shaped by israeli attacks despite an often violated ceasefire the [33:16] search for food and repeated displacement yet every night under the glow of a small light flickers of hope [33:28] i started helping my mother in the kitchen days passed quickly i don't even have time to hang out with [33:33] my friends when i come home late at night i study because i want to travel and i want gaza to be [33:40] safe again 11 year old cadi still opening her textbooks curious inquisitive and determined to [33:47] learn of a world and forge her future beyond the rubble for the pbs news hour i'm ali rogan another [34:06] political fight in congress a mixed martial arts fight at the white house and a potential deal to [34:12] end the fighting with iran time now for the analysis of brooks and capehart that's the atlantic's [34:17] david brooks and jonathan capehart of ms now it's always good to see you both so the white house says [34:23] it's increasingly confident that a deal with iran is within reach david what should americans make of [34:28] the administration's stated confidence this is somebody counted this is the 40th time donald trump has [34:34] said we're very confident so 40 is a good biblical number so maybe maybe it's true um you know it's it's [34:40] too soon to really know how this all turns out but i think you can say some things one uh the iranian [34:46] military is degraded so that's a plus two the straits of hormuz will be in worse shape before [34:52] after this action than before before it was an open waterway now it's an iranian and omanian lake [34:57] three the the it seems extremely unlikely to me despite what the administration is saying that iran [35:03] is going to want to give up or is going to be willing to give up their nuclear power this has been [35:07] a core of their whole regime for decades or that they will give up supporting hamas and hezbollah [35:12] this has been a core and so unless they're really in economic struggle uh worse than we think uh and [35:18] they're going to be moved by that trouble then i'm a little dubious i think we'll end up significantly [35:23] worse off than before the war one of the final point all these bombs got dropped what actually [35:29] pressures each side in each case it was an economic sanction it was iranians closing the strait and us [35:35] imposing a blockade and and sanctions before that so it was actually economic pressure that moved [35:40] people not all these bombs that got dropped and that should be a lesson for leaders going forward [35:44] and jonathan i mean is there a broader lesson here about american foreign policy that no matter who [35:50] occupies the white house presidents discover that the bargain with iran is ultimately always the same [35:56] it's constraints on its nuclear program in exchange for economic relief and that's what we had [36:03] as the united states with the jcpoa which president trump ripped up and is now trying to get a jcpoa like [36:12] agreement at february march april may june four months into a war he started um with benjamin netanyahu [36:20] they got to the jcpoa not through you know two people zooming into a capital and then leaving and [36:28] saying we've got a deal they got the jcpoa by hunkering down in switzerland every day for years [36:36] switzerland and other places for years across from their counterparts and interlocutors with other [36:41] nations involved to hammer out that deal we have seen nothing like that whatsoever when it comes to [36:48] bringing about a resolution to this current war with iran david what's the bigger risk for president [36:54] trump arriving in a deal that basically mirrors the obama era iran deal or or failing to negotiate [36:59] a deal after promising that he could do something better find something better well i wasn't a fan [37:04] of the obama deal by the way i think it's sunsetted too soon so making it a little unreliable uh but [37:10] the danger for president trump is that we walk away with face covering so we don't admit that we lost the [37:17] war but we lost the war and everybody in the region knows we lost the war and everybody in america knows [37:22] we lost the war and everybody around the world knows knows we lost the war and that hurts american [37:27] prestige and it will hurt american interest long term we have seen examples recently of republicans [37:32] breaking with president trump whether the anti-weaponization fund uh to the fight over the fisa [37:39] section 702 this is a warrantless surveillance tool over his selection of bill pilty as the acting director of [37:46] national intelligence are these isolated disputes jonathan or are we starting to see a republican party [37:52] that feels more comfortable challenging the president i mean yes and no um i'm loathe to say we've [38:00] reached a pivot point like this is the moment we don't know i think we'll know as as time goes on but [38:07] as we get more of these things like this like the rising up against polty um like bringing down the the [38:15] fisa law um that republicans are finding their courage we should also keep in mind that a lot of them are [38:22] finding their courage because they've been primaried and lost they're retiring um or their primaries [38:28] have not happened yet and so they're keeping their powder dry but each time they take a stand against [38:36] the president uh i think for once claws back some you know congressional authority as a co-equal branch [38:43] a co-equal branch of government one of the republicans who was primaried and lost is john cornyn [38:48] and in an interview with the new york times he predicted that the two years after the november [38:53] midterms will be the most miserable two years of president trump's life he says he's going to have [38:57] the most miserable two years of his life in the last two years of his term i think because i think [39:01] november is going to be a disaster historically dissent inside the megaverse has been short-lived [39:09] did you see that changing a little i was thinking when i read that quote that uh it'll be miserable for [39:14] him but it won't be as miserable as for us uh you know the um i do think there is some sort of leakage [39:22] here i wouldn't say it's a a turnaround but there's been some sort of leakage the the trump thing is [39:27] just weird i mean he's just weird like he he points bill pulte who's clearly not even close within [39:33] the pacific ocean of being qualified for this job and then he turns around and uh to make the permanent [39:40] acting direct not acting but the permanent director of dni uh jake uh clayton uh who's totally like [39:48] superstar level for trump by trump standards so how does the same guy pick two people one with such [39:53] radically different qualifications the one thing i i should add is that i don't like what the democrats [39:58] are doing here i understand you don't like bill pulte i don't i understand you think he should not have [40:02] been appointed and that you're absolutely 100 correct but the fisa program works well we are now as [40:09] speaker johnson made the point we're now we've got the world cup here we got the iranian thing going [40:14] on we need all the intelligence i can get and that fisa program supplies i'm told half the president's [40:21] daily intelligence brief that's a lot of information and valuable information it's a very well working [40:25] program and the democrats are not repeal or not we're doing it sort of in my view out of spite but [40:31] they're making us less safe john how this became the democrats fault is is curious to me um one a couple [40:39] of things to to keep in mind one even though the law has expired it was reauthorized by a fisa court [40:47] in march of 26 this past march which goes through march of 27 so congress has time to come back and [40:56] reauthorize it do whatever they need to do because it's not just democrats who have concerns about the [41:00] law it's republicans as well so i just don't think it's right to say it's all the democrats fault [41:07] especially when they're not even in the majority in either house in the time that remains david do [41:11] your sunday night plans involve being at the white house for a ufc match by chance well i'm actually [41:17] active participant i'm gonna be fighting uh with jonathan it'll be like that i would like to see could [41:24] you imagine yeah but what do you what do you make of this well i first thought of like who are the [41:28] artist john f kennedy brought to the white house it was like wh auden robert frost jerome robbins leonard [41:36] bernstein and now we've got cage fighting don't anybody say america's in cultural decline so i just [41:45] well look yeah to your point presidents have traditionally sought validation from established [41:50] cultural institutions and artists as i'm saying this i'm looking at the what people have called the [41:55] claw on the on the south lawn president trump has created this alternative cultural establishment [42:03] around combat sports and podcasts and influencers and social media stars how significant is that shift [42:09] and what does it suggest well it's a significant shift because it's the president of the united states [42:13] who's anointing it whenever a president um invites someone from the culture into the white house it's [42:21] giving the the impermanter of the president you know excuse me president obama brought in lin manuel [42:27] to to do what then became um hamilton so there you know you're talking about auden and now you got [42:37] i cannot remember miranda because i was so close to calling him noriega and i know that is not right [42:43] but this a cage fight on the south lawn of the white house the people's house that also has [42:51] corporate sponsorship um that you can see inside the ring this talk about degrading the culture this [42:59] is degrading degrading the white house degrading the people's house and i it's just unconscionable [43:06] that this is part of me thinks though that there were there were people who said that about obama [43:11] when he had you know rappers in the east room right i mean it's just is are we just in a different time [43:16] a different he wants us to be talking this way because he's saying look you you get looked down [43:21] upon by people i believe in right cage fighting just like you yeah final word no we are out of time [43:28] and i'm we don't have enough time for me to thunder right indignation about all this we'll pick it up on [43:34] your sub stack yes jonathan capehart david brooks thank you both thank you thanks jack tomorrow the bruce [43:49] springsteen center for american music opens to the public on the campus of new jersey's monmouth [43:54] university the new facility houses springsteen's archives while also telling the broader story of [43:59] american music through artifacts and exhibits ahead of the opening i sat down with the boss himself [44:06] as part of our arts and culture series canvas what's it feel like to see your whole life like [44:12] reflected in museum form like you did far from it just days after wrapping a 20-date stadium tour with [44:23] the east street band bruce springsteen and i sat down surrounded by the artifacts of a more than [44:29] six decade career much of it devoted to telling the stories of working people we're inside the new bruce [44:35] springsteen center for american music dedicated not just to one man's career but to the traditions that [44:41] shaped it this building houses your archives but it's also dedicated to the broader story of american [44:48] music why was that important to you i always look at myself as a small link in a a very big chain you [44:57] know i was a guy kind of came along you pick the flag up for a while you run with it for a little while [45:03] you hand it to the next guy so we wanted to make the place very inclusive the top floor houses springsteen's [45:10] archives which grew out of a fan curated collection of memorabilia that eventually outgrew its home at [45:17] the asbury park public library the bottom floor includes a gallery of artifacts from across the [45:23] history of american music this is where we tell the story of american music in a condensed form bob [45:29] santelli is the center's executive director and an american music historian this is one of my favorite [45:35] cases here because of the power of the artifacts that's louie armstrong's trumpet that's dizzy gillespie's [45:42] trumpet john coltrane's saxophone in ella fitzgerald's concert dress we had to figure out how to [45:50] encompass the story of american music in a rather small space and yet make sure it was relevant it was [45:56] accurate and reflective of what bruce's music is all about where does bruce springsteen's contribution fit [46:02] in that overall narrative his contributions are increasingly significant his place [46:10] is right up there with all the greats including bob dylan and so what we're trying to do here is it's [46:15] not it's not a tribute to him most importantly what we do is we try to uncover the creative process [46:23] in addition to memorabilia the center offers an intimate look at springsteen's creative process [46:28] through interactive exhibits handwritten lyrics and other rare materials from across his career [46:34] he writes on dollar fifty spiral bound notebooks that you can get in any drug store and handwritten [46:40] lyrics to born in the usa that's incredible yeah and of course fans see that as kind of holy grail stuff [46:47] you know and there's only one word that's crossed out it's almost as if this was like downloaded and [46:51] he just wrote it wrote it all out at once where do you see yourself fitting in that longer narrative [46:55] that longer arc of american music you know i'm just a guy that came along at this particular moment you [47:01] know and uh was interested in writing about the times that i lived through grew up in my family's life [47:09] how that connected to america in the second half of the 20th century and i wanted to be an artist to [47:16] encompass their times the times that they live in and wrote and wrote about the wrote about those things [47:22] the stories always the same for springsteen writing about his times has often meant examining the [47:29] tension between america's ideals and its reality once i made you rich enough rich enough to forget my [47:36] name and youngstown from songs like youngstown a lament for the hollowing out of industrial america [47:44] to american skin 41 shots his meditation on the 1999 police killing of amadou diallo an unarmed [47:51] immigrant in new york city he's also been one of the country's most politically engaged musicians [48:04] lending his voice to democratic candidates for decades performing at campaign rallies and get [48:09] out the vote events you said before that loving your country means telling the truth about it [48:15] sure how has that guided your work well i believe in critical patriotism i believe that's the definition [48:22] of a patriot you know that you love your country so much that you are willing to look at it clearly [48:32] recognize its faults encourage it to be a better place and believe that you carry in your heart the [48:43] country that is waiting in recent years the politics that long informed springsteen's work has become more [48:50] explicit in january after federal immigration authorities in minnesota killed two u.s citizens [48:56] renee good and alex preddy springsteen responded with a song they're bravely their sacrifice and their names [49:06] will not be forgotten this is streets of minneapolis it was very angry and usually i write songs that have [49:15] a lot of political implications but very often are not directly political king trump's private army from the dhs [49:24] so in this case i wrote a protest song i thought gee maybe this is a little broad you know but then [49:31] i had my my buddy tom morello to ours from rage against the machine and he says no no he says bruce nuance [49:39] is great but sometimes you got to kick them in the teeth and so that was a moment when you had to kick [49:46] him in the teeth remember the names of those who died on the streets of minneapolis it was a song [49:56] written for a moment i wrote wrote it recorded it released it in three days you know it's a song of [50:02] its times bruce is a synthesizer john landau is bruce springsteen's longtime manager he hears everything he [50:11] reads everything and he's got some internal blender and he creates out of found material original work [50:24] when landau first encountered springsteen in the 70s he was a music critic who famously wrote [50:30] i saw rock and roll future and its name is bruce springsteen today the two are still collaborators [50:36] they're creative and professional partnership among the longest running in modern music [50:40] the fact that the whole first floor is dedicated to setting a context for bruce which keeps this [50:50] from becoming idolatry and we're telling yes bruce's story but we're telling it as part of a narrative [50:59] about american music which the concerts are intended to do i've been it's gonna trouble the water [51:09] to celebrate the opening organizers brought together more than a dozen artists for two nights [51:16] of performances tracing the story of american music anytime you get to share the stage with bruce [51:26] if you get asked you better be there ken casey is the front man for dropkick murphy's he says he [51:35] sees springsteen as part of a long tradition of artists who have used music to engage with the world [51:40] around them you think about during the civil rights movement and the vietnam war protests like how [51:46] what a big role music played in those and and is music face meeting the challenge now i'm not 100 [51:53] sure it is and or i'd like to see music do more do protests songs do they serve a different purpose [52:00] today do they carry the same power the same weight i don't know i'm in the hearts and minds business [52:06] you know you change people kind of one at a time and and i believe that culture has impact [52:13] you know i believe that culture shapes the nation culture shapes our politics so i have to whether [52:22] they do or not i have to act as they do you play for audiences across the political spectrum people [52:28] who love your music might not share your politics right how does that strike you that's what i like [52:34] that's fine i like a big tent if i'm playing up at the stadium here in jersey you know and there's [52:40] 50 000 people so i don't think they're all democrats or they're all progressives you know so i i like you [52:46] know i like playing to a big tent for all the reflection that comes with the opening of a career [52:50] spanning museum springsteen insists he's far from finished you could have stopped a long time ago and [52:56] people would have said that that was a complete career why keep going what does it cost you and what [53:01] does it give you um it's just my job and it's my pleasure i don't even think about stopping you know if [53:08] you have created a body of work that's resonant you know i i i don't see any immediate reason to [53:16] there's never going to be an e-street farewell tour i can tell you that and while the center bears his [53:26] name bruce springsteen hopes its focus broadens with time placing his work within the larger continuum [53:32] of american music i feel like i'm i'm simply a link in a big chain you know and i would imagine as time [53:40] passes you know uh all that's up here it will end up in a little case with along with a lot of [53:45] other great fabulous musicians sure generations from now if people walk through here they want [53:50] you want them to think that oh bruce springsteen was a link in a longer change yes really yes well [53:57] i would say that and more thanks i appreciate springsteen thank you my pleasure later tonight [54:13] a special one hour edition of washington week here on pbs our country is about to turn 250 years old and we [54:20] wanted to do something a bit different in anticipation of this milestone we have been [54:24] planning to host a cage match that would feature our favorite panelists duking it out in front of [54:28] a live studio audience but president trump beat us to the punch quite literally so we kept the live [54:34] studio audience and instead of gouging each other's eyes out in the shadow of the white house we're going [54:38] to talk about our history the state of our democracy and the successes failures and challenges [54:43] of the american experiment that is tonight right here on pbs meanwhile this weekend on horizons host [54:49] william brangham explores the boom of data centers across the country and their environmental impact [54:54] and on compass points moderator nick schifrin speaks with the authors of a new book that explains how [54:59] iran's religious rulers failed to live up to the promises that propelled them to power during the 1979 [55:06] iranian revolution you can watch both horizons and compass points on our youtube channel or wherever [55:12] you get your podcasts and on your local pbs station check your local listings and that is the [55:18] news hour for tonight i'm jeff bennett and i'm amna navaz on behalf of the entire news hour team [55:23] thank you for joining us and have a great weekend major funding for the pbs news hour has been provided [55:29] by the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the news hour including [55:36] kathy and paul anderson and camilla and george smith the walton family foundation working for solutions to [55:45] protect water during climate change so people and nature can thrive together and with the ongoing [56:01] support of these individuals and institutions and friends of the news hour this program was made [56:23] possible by the contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you thank you watching pbs