PART ONE — Investigator Johnnie Britt testifies in the Salguero-Olivares murder trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Good afternoon Captain Brent. Good afternoon. Where are you employed? I'm employed with the Chapel Hill Police Department. And what is your role there? So currently I serve as the captain of our training division. What does that mean? So I basically have an administrative job there. I work in the building for the most part. I oversee the division that keeps up with our current certifications for our office. Every year in service training. In addition to that we onboard all of our new employees as well. And so we send them to basic law enforcement training and through field training and get them trained up and sent off on their own. How long have you [00:00:42] Speaker 2: been with the Chapel Hill Police Department? Over 23 years. Would you tell us just briefly about your time at Chapel Hill PD? Did you work at a different police department before Chapel Hill [00:00:58] Speaker 1: PD? I did not. Chapel Hill Police was my first job. Okay. Tell us how you started and sort of describe your trajectory at Chapel Hill PD. Sure. So I started at the police department in January of 2003. I worked on patrol for the first couple of years and then I applied for investigations and got it. And so I was put in investigations in late 2006 and worked in investigations for almost eight years before I received a promotion and then was transferred back out onto the road as a patrol sergeant. [00:01:34] Speaker 2: And when were you put back out as a patrol sergeant? [00:01:37] Speaker 1: So that was a little complicated because it came about the time of this case as well. So I got put back out on patrol as a sergeant in 2013 about a year after this case started. The SBI was brought on on board to help us out with the case about a year in. And so I was actually on patrol for maybe two months or so. And then they asked me to come back and help with onboarding with the SBI and actually worked the case with them for the next year. Okay. And then what happened? How'd you get from there to being captain? Um, so eventually, um, at the end of 2014, after my extra year in investigations with the SBI, I was transferred back out onto patrol. And so I was a patrol supervisor. I was a sergeant for a few years, got promoted to lieutenant at that time, um, and also worked the road as a patrol supervisor. Um, and then in 2019, um, I got in, in the building job still as a lieutenant and then got [00:02:41] Speaker 2: promoted a few years later to captain. Thank you. Um, so let's go back to 2012, September of 2012. You said you were assigned to investigations at that time? Yes. What kinds of cases did you investigate? [00:02:56] Speaker 1: So as an investigator, you take pretty much anything and everything. It's mostly serious misdemeanor cases. So it could be like a serious assault and then any felony case you would investigate, um, as an investigator. So that could be fraud cases. It could be breaking and entering robberies, homicides, other death investigations, um, suicides, um, pretty much anything like that, um, investigations would go out [00:03:20] Speaker 2: to. Do you have any sense looking back now of about how many murder investigations you would do, um, you [00:03:29] Speaker 1: know, each year or. So I don't have a number for me personally, um, but Chapel Hill is relatively low on violent crime. And so we would see maybe over the years between one and three homicides per year. I think we've had the occasional year where we've had zero. Um, so we're fairly low on violent crime there. [00:03:54] Speaker 2: How did you become involved in this case? So I was working that day. It was Friday, [00:03:59] Speaker 1: September 7th. Um, I heard the call come out on the radio. They asked for investigations to respond to the scene and I did. Where did you go? I went to Hawthorne at the view apartments. Um, do you remember where that was? Um, 5639 Old Chapel Hill Boulevard. Um, it has a Durham address. Chapel Hill, um, police respond, but it's in Durham County. Okay. Do you remember if it was always called Hawthorne at the view? It was not. It actually was Willowbrook apartments. When I started at the police department in 2003, um, the, the apartments were built in 1986, I believe. And it changed names a couple of times. Um, it was the view, then Hawthorne at the view. Those changes happened around 2010, 2011. And then, um, after Faith's murder, it changed again. And it's had two different names since then preserved at the park. And then it's currently Nova Chapel Hill. Okay. Um, so you said you [00:05:04] Speaker 2: responded to that location. Do you remember about what time you got there? Yeah, it was probably around [00:05:10] Speaker 1: 11:30 roughly. Um, we heard the call come out. It takes about 10 minutes from our old police department to get to Hawthorne, um, with some traffic, maybe 15 at the most. Do you remember about how, excuse me, about how many people were there when you got there? I couldn't say exactly how many, no. Okay. Um, what did you do when you first arrived? So I first talked to the responding officers, the ones that were initially there when the call came out, um, and checked on Faith. And then I went inside the apartment with one of those officers. Do you know who was the first officer to arrive on scene? Um, I believe Rick Ennis wrote, officer Ennis wrote the initial report. Um, though I can't speak to whether he was actually the first one there. Cause a lot of times several officers will arrive about the same time. We heard testimony [00:06:10] Speaker 2: last week that officer Ennis passed away a few months ago. He did. Yes. Um, do you remember, did you, did you review the incident reports before testifying today? Yes. And what observations did, uh, officer Ennis [00:06:27] Speaker 1: share? So there were really, um, a couple of things of note in his report. Um, one of them was that he had requested investigations. He also requested our crisis unit. Um, they're civilian employees, non-sworn employees that work for the police department that are generally counselors and social workers. So they go to a lot of calls like this with us. So because Marisol and Karina were pretty distraught in his opinion, um, he asked for them to come out to provide that emotional support for them. So he noted, he noted that on there. And then of course investigations. Did he make any other observations that you remember? He also noted that while Karina did not appear to be intoxicated in any way, he could smell the odor of alcohol on her breath. Thank you. You were getting ready to tell us that [00:07:22] Speaker 2: you then went into the apartment yourself. And what did you do then? Um, so I know officer Sabinage was [00:07:29] Speaker 1: there. Um, and there may have been one or two other investigators with me. And generally we just go in like for a really quick kind of cursory overlook of the apartment. Um, it's not to search. It's not to touch anything. It's not to do, it's not to take any action, but we have to be able to articulate, um, verbiage for a search warrant. And in order to do that, you know, somebody has to see it to be able to pass the information on to another investigator to type it up. And so we just went in [00:07:59] Speaker 2: and kind of noted a few things that we saw in the scene. Did you have body worn camera back then in 2012? [00:08:06] Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we did not. Um, we got those sometime between 2016 and 2018. Cause I remember I was a patrol [00:08:14] Speaker 2: lieutenant when I got my first one. Okay. Um, and just to be clear, what apartment number did you go into? [00:08:20] Speaker 1: 1502. Okay. What were your initial impressions? Um, the, the apartment was really messy. Um, there were clothes everywhere. Um, you know, you walked in the front door, you saw the bathroom at the very end of the hallway. I remember the lights still being on in that, in the bathroom and then just clothes piled up in the living room. And then I think what was supposed to be like an eating area, almost like a dining room, there were clothes stacked up there as well. Um, the kitchen was pretty disgusting, um, pots and pans everywhere and take out cups. The dishes were, I mean, the sink was full of dishes. Do you remember how many bedrooms? It's a one bedroom apartment. And before I forget, I just wanted to ask you, [00:09:06] Speaker 2: if you know, and you, you may not, um, but do you, are you aware of where the clothes Faith was wearing the night she went out to the thrill to the club where they were found? Yes, they were found in that [00:09:20] Speaker 1: dining room area. It wasn't, it was just packed with clothes. It wasn't really a dining room, but, um, they were found in that area and we had information that it was customary for her to actually go and change clothes in that area. That was a normal thing for her to do. Okay. Thank you. [00:09:34] Speaker 2: What did you do next as you're sort of, as you said, getting the lay of the land? What else do you remember seeing during that first walkthrough? So we continued walking down the hallway, um, didn't [00:09:52] Speaker 1: really, went in the bathroom very briefly, just kind of a peak. It also was pretty messy. Um, and then walked into the bedroom as well. Officer Sabinoche was there to kind of just point out a couple of things to us. In particular, it was that blue Riesling bottle that was on the floor. Um, he had already had information that that was, he or another officer had information that that was out of place. And so they pointed that out to us. Um, it had one single bed in there. The sheets were black on the bed. It was very obvious that there was blood on it. It was harder to see because the sheets were black. Um, blood spatter on the wall where the pillows would be, um, and were, and then on the closet door as well. And then Faith was off to the left of the bed. What do you remember about what Faith looked like when you got there? I, I did not get super close and involved because you don't want to disturb anything. And I think that's a really important thing to point out is that we don't go in there to really do anything or take any action at that point. So I did not get super close to her, but obviously she had, um, could see all the blood everywhere. Um, the black eyes. Um, I noticed the tampon on the floor. I don't remember if I noticed it or if Sabinoche pointed that out to me and it looked like it had been flattened, like somebody stepped on it at some point. And then the white takeout bag that was on the bed, which seemed very much out of place. Um, since there were, weren't really covers on the bed, it was kind of an odd placement for a bag. So I noticed that as well. Did you notice anything else about the white bag? Um, it had writing on it. Do you remember [00:11:31] Speaker 2: what it said? It said, I'm not stupid, bitch jealous. Um, did you, based on what you saw when you first went in, were you, I mean, as an investigator, are you already starting to suss out like what, how to respond to this, what you're going to do next, what you think you're looking at or not looking at based on what [00:11:57] Speaker 1: you see? Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, like I mentioned, there was a lot of blood spatter on the wall and obviously you don't know at that point what happened, but you know, I was already thinking about, could this be a gunshot wound? Could this be some type of beating? You know, what makes sense in the frame of what I'm seeing while I'm just standing on the scene with very little information to go on at that point? I didn't know, as far as I knew, there were no gunshots reported the night before we review the reports every day. Um, so I did not have any indication that, that that was the case, but you have to leave all your options open. I mean, you're just so early in the investigation, you don't really know exactly what to expect and what you're looking at right then. What did you do after you finished that initial walk? So we all exited from the apartment, um, walked out. There was already a crime scene log being kept at that point. And so I know I was in there less than 10 minutes at that point, maybe six or seven minutes. Um, I called my supervisor after I left just to let him know what we had going on and just talk through how we wanted to proceed. What is a crime scene log? So a crime scene log, it's usually a patrol officer that's assigned to that. As soon as we have, um, a major crime or an area that needs to be locked down and we know we're going to get a search warrant, we post an officer outside that area and they have to log everybody that's coming in and out of the scene so that we can be accountable for who's going in and why they're going in. Were you the lead [00:13:30] Speaker 2: investigator on this case? Yes. Okay. Um, what does that, what did that mean? What were your priorities? [00:13:38] Speaker 1: Well, so usually we all served in a week of on-call, um, as an investigator and so you would take after hours calls. I happened to be on call that week. So anything that happened after hours or major crimes that happened during the day would be assigned to the on-call investigator and that just happened to be me that week. But our priorities at that point, it was, it's kind of an all hands on deck situation. Um, you know, you can work a fraud case from the comfort of your office most of the time by yourself, but something like this is an entire, it's your whole team and sometimes it's patrol officers that you might ask to do other jobs to like securing a crime scene or managing the law. And so there's so many pieces of this puzzle that you have to put together and so many jobs, so many duties that we had to, we had to bring in the whole team, um, to start working on the case. And what is typically [00:14:32] Speaker 2: speaking, um, and maybe also in this case, like what do you, what do you do first once you get people [00:14:37] Speaker 1: organized? Where do you start? So you start with the victim, you start with faith and you start with the scene. Um, and at the initial moment, we can't do anything with the scene because we've got to wait for that search warrant. So that's usually a few hours at that point. Um, but you start asking questions. You talk to as many people as you possibly can. You start canvassing the area, specifically areas nearby. The 1400 building was right across from her building. And so starting to talk to folks in the 1400 building, um, obviously we had Marisol and Karina there. They were really important to talk to at that moment. And then we had other people that kind of just presented themselves to us because they cared so much about fate. They heard about it and started showing up at the scene as well. So they kind of made it, some people made it a little easier for us because we didn't have to go tracking people [00:15:27] Speaker 2: down. They just kind of showed up. So who were the first people you talked to once you got to the scene, [00:15:33] Speaker 1: if you remember? I do. Um, I talked to Marisol initially and another investigator talked to Karina [00:15:38] Speaker 2: initially. What do you remember about that conversation with Marisol? So she was, [00:15:43] Speaker 1: she was very, I mean, understandably so visibly upset, um, and crying. She talked about faith. Um, she said that, you know, she'd only been in the apartment for a few weeks. She was staying with Karina until she got her financial aid sorted out because she was hoping to get either, um, another apartment or a place on campus. And so I learned more about her. We went through a few of her text messages at that time too. She was talking to me about her contact with Karina that morning. I made some notes about that as well, just to kind of get a better idea of the timeline. Did you end up talking to Karina that day too or no? I did. Um, at one point, I think I was pulled away from talking to Marisol for a while. Like I said, there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of pieces. Um, but I came back and Karina was actually with Marisol at that point. And so we had a chance to just talk more about, about faith, about where they had been, um, Decoy, Decoy came up, um, the ex-boyfriend. Um, he actually came up to the scene, which is one of the reasons why he came up. And so we talked a lot about him and, um, the busted door inside the apartment as well. Of course, that was a concern for us as investigators before we knew, um, when that happened. Is there anything, so did you talk to [00:17:01] Speaker 2: Karina and Marisol together? Yes. You didn't talk to Karina by herself? Not at that time, no. Um, and you mentioned you talked to other people around the complex, the apartment complex? Yes. Will you tell [00:17:14] Speaker 1: us about that? So I know, um, on that day specifically, I'm trying to think back to who I actually spoke to then. I know, um, you know, Lamar, um, who was one of Fate's friends came to the scene. Um, uh, Jordan McCreary came to the scene as well. I had a chance to speak with him briefly there. [00:17:34] Speaker 2: Okay. Um, I wanted to ask you something. Uh, are you aware of whether or not the crime scene techs that you worked with, uh, collected swabs from the doorknobs? Yes, they did. Okay. And do you know what happened, whether or not those were tested by the crime lab? I do not know. I don't know that. Okay, great. Um, at some point, did you take a photograph of Faith's car where it was parked in the parking lot at night to sort of show what the light looked like? Yes. Your Honor, may I approach the witness? Yes, ma'am. [00:18:20] Speaker ?: Captain Ray, I'm handing you what's been marked States Exhibit 93. Do you recognize that? Yes. What is it? It's Faith's car in the dark. Okay. Um, and does that, is it a photograph? [00:18:31] Speaker 3: Yes. Okay. Um, does that, is it a photograph? Yes. Okay. Um, does that, is it a photograph? Yes. Okay. Does it fairly and accurately represent what Faith's car looked like in the dark, where it was parked in front of their apartment? Yes, it does. [00:18:43] Speaker 2: Your Honor, the State would move State's Exhibit 93 into evidence. [00:18:48] Speaker 1: No, Your Honor, the State would move State's Exhibit 93 into evidence. [00:18:54] Speaker ?: Any objection? No, Your Honor. [00:18:54] Speaker 2: Okay, State's Exhibit 93 shall be accepted into evidence. And the State further moves to publish it on the screen. Any objection? [00:19:06] Speaker ?: No, Your Honor. [00:19:06] Speaker 2: No, Your Honor. [00:19:07] Speaker 3: All right, State's Exhibit 93 shall be accepted into evidence. [00:19:11] Speaker 2: And the State further moves to publish it, uh, on the screen. Any objection? [00:19:16] Speaker 3: No, Your Honor. Allowed. Thank you. [00:19:19] Speaker 2: Do you want that light soft now? Yes, please, Your Honor. Um, I mean, you can see it much better on the television. Okay. But if there are any jurors who are not able to see that and would like us to turn off the lights, I would be happy to ask that they can. [00:19:39] Speaker 3: Well, I'll show you hands to any jurors who need us to turn the lights off. Let the record reflect that no jurors have raised their hand. [00:19:45] Speaker 2: Thank you, Your Honor. Captain Britt, feel free if it would help you to stand up and point at the television, as long as you keep your voice up so that the court reporter can hear you. Would you just point out what we're seeing in this photograph? [00:20:02] Speaker 1: Okay, um, this is, it's Faith's car, um, it was parked right in front of the building. You can kind of see that in the background there. Y'all can probably see it right here. Um, and also you'll notice the, um, the gas cap, um, the gas compartment is open as well. [00:20:19] Speaker 2: Would you, the, it looks like there are stairs in State's Exhibit 93 up at the top left corner. Mm-hmm. Um, do you know where those stairs lead? [00:20:31] Speaker 1: That would have been right in front of her building. From, from what I remember and from this angle, it looks like it was right in front of her building, near her stairs that she would have walked up. Okay. [00:20:45] Speaker ?: All right. [00:20:45] Speaker 2: Captain Britt, just to be clear, this photo was not taken the night of September 6th into the morning of September 7th, 2012. No. Do you remember when the photo was taken? [00:21:03] Speaker 1: It was taken the evening of the 7th. Okay. [00:21:07] Speaker 2: Yes. After Faith party was found? Yes. Thank you so much. Um, standing where you were there, were you able to see down the berm to where the, the building across the parking lot was located? [00:21:23] Speaker 1: I, I cannot remember. I mean, this is an accurate depiction of what the lighting would look like out there, but I can't remember exactly turning around and, and looking at that building in particular. [00:21:36] Speaker 2: Do you remember if there was any light down there? I, I don't remember. Okay. That's fine. Um, did you, maybe not on this occasion, but on any occasion, end up walking down to that 1400 building, which is across from where Faith and Karina lived? [00:21:52] Speaker 1: Yes. We did follow up there multiple times. [00:21:55] Speaker 2: Will you tell us about that? [00:21:57] Speaker 1: So, I have a couple, like two notable times where I do remember specifically going to that apartment complex. Um, I did some follow up at apartment 1407, which was on the back side. It's actually down. I would say on, if you're facing the 1400 building, it's on the right hand side. And it's down, I would say in the deepest part of the berm. And it was apartment on the back side, if that makes a little bit of sense there. Um, the only reason I remember, I went with Lori Patino Sanchez, who was also one of our investigators. She speaks Spanish and there were, um, Spanish speaking folks that lived there. And the reason I remember is they had an automatic air freshener in there and I was standing too close to it and it spritzed me, which seems like kind of a silly reason to remember that. But really that was like the notable thing for me at that particular apartment that day. Um, and the other time I definitely remember going there. Um, I was actually with the SBI at that time doing some follow up and it had started sleeting or snowing a little bit and I actually slid down the hill. So again, a notable occurrence at the 1400 building. [00:23:05] Speaker 2: Do you, do you remember, um, the perspective if you're standing at the bottom of that berm next to the 1400 building, what it looks like to look at the parking lot? At like what level is the parking lot if you're standing at the bottom of that berm? [00:23:23] Speaker 1: So it's a little bit on the right hand side of the building. It's a steeper drop off. There's stairs on that side and I believe there's stairs in another section as well, closer to the middle of the building. But it's definitely steeper on that side. Um, and if you stand at the bottom of the berm, the view would vary along there, but it's deeper. And so it's almost like your, like eye level with the parking lot because it's such a, such a hill there. [00:23:54] Speaker 2: And the area to be clear that you're talking about where it's deeper, uh, is next to where the picnic table and the grill were located? Yes. On the right side of that building? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Did you attend the autopsy of Faith's body? [00:24:14] Speaker 1: I did. When was that? It was that Saturday. So it would have been September 8th at 9:00 AM. [00:24:23] Speaker 2: What did you learn from the autopsy that informed the course of your investigation thereafter? [00:24:29] Speaker 1: So at the autopsy, we learned that in fact was a homicide and that she had a lot of trauma to her head. And so she, she died of blunt force trauma. [00:24:40] Speaker 2: Are you aware of whether or not the forensic pathologist, Dr. Scott, collected swabs from Faith's body? Yes, she did. And, um, what happened to those swabs? [00:24:52] Speaker 1: Um, so the medical examiner's office packages up evidence for us, um, and that's why I attended the autopsy to get information, but also to collect the evidence that they have. And so they handed over to us. So we have a chain of custody. And then I took that back to the police department where I then enter each item of evidence into our property system and then lock it up and secure it. [00:25:20] Speaker 2: Were you aware that some of those items of evidence were then transferred securely to the North Carolina crime lab for testing? Yes. Did you receive thereafter information from the crime lab that affected your decision about how to conduct the investigation going forward? [00:25:41] Speaker 1: So we got our first, um, we got our first printouts, our, our information from the crime lab a few weeks into the investigation. Unfortunately, it's not like what we see on TV where you get DNA results back in like 24 hours. It was several weeks. Um, I would say two to three weeks is when we've got our first report back. Um, that indicated that the reaction, well, [00:26:05] Speaker 3: sustained as far as what it indicated at this point. Council approach. [00:26:15] Speaker ?: Thank you. [00:26:45] Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to have you step into the jury room. Once again, if you're not expressing from the real form, I think I'll bring you back out momentarily. Everyone else, you may be seated other than law enforcement while the jury leads the courtroom. If you'll leave your pen and ties in the chair. Let the record reflect the jury's left the courtroom. Yes, sir. [00:27:39] Speaker 4: Your Honor, it sounded like Captain Britt was about to testify as to lab results that she received from the SBI. And I objected to that because I don't think there's been a sufficient foundation for the lab results. If the information was taken securely by the Chapel Hill Police Department, which again, I'm foundational on that. I haven't heard. This is evidence used in the course of investigation. So it's a confrontation issue at this point. Um, the, no one from the SBI lab has testified at this point. I have no indication of how the testing was done, who did the testing, whether it met the criteria for the state prime lab, whether the instruments were properly, you know, monitored, who in the chain of custody had touched it. So this is, there's a confrontation issue at this point. Um, if, you know, at some point, if this information, lab information were entered into evidence and it clears those hurdles, then that's different. But at this point to allow Captain Britt to testify that the results of the lab report, you know, to say, well, but it's not for the truth of the matter asserted. It's just to say what I did is it's skipping multiple steps. It's violating confrontation rights under the federal and the state constitution. And there is no foundation whatsoever to even get to that step. And so for all those reasons, I'm objecting to what I think the next thing that was going to be said was what the lab results. Captain Britt thinks what the lab results were. [00:29:20] Speaker 2: Okay. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Your Honor, I may not understand what the defense is arguing at this point, but I, this is not hearsay. It's being offered not to prove the truth of the matter asserted, but to show why this investigator did what she did next as the investigator of this case. Uh, I, I also think that what I think I hear the defense counsel saying is a practical impossibility. I mean, they do have all of the discovery. They know what the DNA analyst is going to say. Um, she is going to testify. This is highly relevant. Um, this is part of the, um, the chronology of events in this case. There's no other way to explain what happened. Um, and so she is, again, this is non hearsay, and it will also be fulfilled later when Erin Irmish is called to testify, and she will testify to all the things, and they'll be able to confront her about everything and more than to do with the DNA. [00:30:24] Speaker 3: Anything else? [00:30:27] Speaker 4: All of that's assuming that the lab reports will clear their hurdles to make it into evidence, and that's a big presumption, right? They can call witnesses out of order. The state can certainly do that, but allow a witness to testify as to lab results that literally have not come into evidence. I think it violates the federal and state constitutional due process guarantees and the confrontation guarantees under both constitutions, federal and state. [00:30:54] Speaker 3: All right. Thank you. The objection is noted for the record, respectfully overruled. The witness may be allowed to respond to the question. Court's going to indicate, excuse me, I'm going to indicate that in fact this is not for the truth of the matter certain, but it's to show how this captain or this officer at the time responded to what she was, I guess, viewing and seeing and information that she was being given to dictate her actions thereafter. The court will also incorporate by reference, Madam D.A., the state's argument in full and in total on this particular issue. Thank you. All right. But the objection is noted for the record. All right. [00:31:35] Speaker 4: Thank you, Your Honor. Just as a forecast, I will have to continue to renew the objection [00:31:39] Speaker 3: any time she's asked. So noted. Thank you, Your Honor. So noted because there's not a standing objection in North Carolina. Um, Madam D.A., you're ready to bring the jury back in? Yes, Your Honor. All right. Thank you. Mr. Rainsford? Yes, Your Honor. All right. We can bring him back in, Sheriff. [00:32:01] Speaker ?: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:32:40] Speaker 3: Thank you, Sheriff. Thank you, Madam Clark. Let the wreck reflect the jury back in the courtroom. Now, the objection is noted respectfully overruled. You may ask your question again, Madam D.A. [00:33:07] Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. Um, what information did you receive from the crime lab that informed what you did next investigating this case? So the crime -- [00:33:16] Speaker 4: My objection, Your Honor, just for the record. Yes, sir. The constitutional constitution and North Carolina constitution, the confrontation clause under both of those constitutions, the right to due process under both of those constitutions, as well as the lack of foundation. [00:33:32] Speaker 3: No, respectfully. Overall, you may answer any. [00:33:36] Speaker 1: So the lab came back with information about an unknown DNA profile that was present on key items of evidence that were within the crime scene. In addition to that, it was also present on the vaginal and anal swabs that had come from the medical examiner's office. And so for us as investigators, I mean, this is two to three weeks into our investigation, we knew we were looking for this person. [00:34:07] Speaker 2: And, um, was there a specification with regard to whether that DNA profile was male or female? Male. Male. [00:34:14] Speaker 4: Injection. I have to do it this way, Your Honor. [00:34:17] Speaker 3: Sure. So no. Male. [00:34:19] Speaker 4: Due process clause under both constitutions, federal and state, the right to confront the witnesses under the state and the federal constitution, the lack of foundation for this testimony, objections of the characterization of the testimony itself, um, under Rule 403. Again, I don't think this is proper without the analyst. [00:34:39] Speaker 3: It was male DNA that was present. How did you go about looking for that person? [00:34:50] Speaker 1: So that was a big task. Um, that it was, became a massive undertaking for us. Um, like I mentioned earlier with an investigation, you generally start with those tight circles around the victim. Um, Faith was very much full of life, very likable. She was super involved in so many things, which made it, it's great for her. And it, but it was a very huge challenge for us. Um, we looked at her phone contacts, who she'd been texting, who she had seen recently, who she interacted with at the thrill night club the night before. Um, she was involved with the Carolina Indian circle on campus. She was taking classes that semester. Um, she worked at red Robin. And so we explored men in all of those places, um, including people that lived at the apartment complex or would have lived there at the time [00:35:45] Speaker 2: of this crime. And when you say you explored men in all those places, what does that mean? Um, [00:35:51] Speaker 1: we had a questionnaire that we would kind of a standardized questionnaire that we would ask, um, people the same questions every time after we asked them that we also asked them to give us a [00:36:01] Speaker 2: sample of their DNA. And in your, how many years did you spend personally collecting DNA samples from people? At least two years. And do you remember about how many samples had been collected in those two [00:36:17] Speaker 1: years? I want to say that we had, we may have even topped 300 at that point. I don't know if we were quite [00:36:24] Speaker 2: there yet. Um, we'd collected hundreds of samples at that point. Did everyone you asked give their DNA [00:36:31] Speaker 4: voluntarily? Objection, calls for speculation. I don't know if these witnesses are being called in. [00:36:36] Speaker 3: Objection is noted. You can answer that. Overall, you can answer that question if you know. Um, no, [00:36:43] Speaker 1: not everybody provided their DNA to us willingly. How did you handle that? There's other ways to, um, find information about people. We just had to use other investigative tools to rule them out as a [00:36:55] Speaker 2: potential suspect. Did you find the connection you were looking for during that time that you were investigating the case? Unfortunately, we did not while I was on the base. At some point were you reassigned? I think you alluded to this earlier when you were talking about your career at Chapel Hill PD. [00:37:14] Speaker 1: Um, yes. I was reassigned, um, at the end of 2014 or fall of 2014. [00:37:25] Speaker 2: Do you know if after you took a different job or were reassigned, um, if Chapel Hill PD continued the investigation? Absolutely. One thing I wanted to clarify, um, you mentioned the, the walkthrough. [00:37:45] Speaker 1: Did you say you went through another time? I did, um, I actually went in the crime scene two times. Um, the first time with the officer, the, one of the initial responding officers. And then the second time I went into the crime scene was actually with our ID techs, um, with she and Tamika. And, and I pretty much did the same thing with them that the officer had done with me and just pointed out a few key things in the crime scene. [00:38:09] Speaker 2: And during the time you were in the crime scene, both those times, uh, did you or anyone you were with touch anything that you recall? No. Is that something you're very careful not to do? Yes. Thank you, Captain Brent. No further questions, Your Honor. All right. Cross-examination. [00:38:34] Speaker 4: Thank you, Your Honor. Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Captain Brent. Good afternoon. How many officers have gone into the apartment prior to your arrival? Um, I don't know that I could give you [00:38:49] Speaker 1: an exact number. Um, I know Officer Sabinage went in there. Um, Officer Ennis would have been in there because he was one of the first responding officers. Um, Officer Castro was also in there. So I would say, I'll say three-ish. I hate to land on a specific number, but I would say three to four would be my, um, [00:39:13] Speaker 4: best guess. Okay. So you're, as we sit here at trial, you're offering a guess as to how many officers were at the crime scene and inside the apartment prior to your arrival. I mean, we could look back [00:39:27] Speaker 1: at the supplements and figure out exactly who was in the crime scene because they would have all written [00:39:32] Speaker 4: supplements. Okay. Is that not something you reviewed prior to coming here today? Sir, the report is [00:39:38] Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of pages and I did the best I could looking through all that information. So yes, [00:39:44] Speaker 4: I did look through the report. Yes. How about the crime scene log? It sounds like that's something that just gets written down. Yes. Okay. Did you review the crime scene log? That would have been [00:39:53] Speaker 1: hundreds of pages, correct? I don't know how many pages the crime scene log itself was. Um, it would have been generally it's handwritten. It's on a notepad of some kind. The officers are required to turn that into evidence, the handwritten portion. Um, and then they also type it up and put [00:40:11] Speaker 4: it in their supplements. Many of them do. Okay. So if you wanted to know who was in the crime scene, you know, maybe these, that's an officer that you think, you know, follows protocol and maybe another one that maybe you have some concerns with, you could look at this log to see who was in and out of the [00:40:26] Speaker 1: crime scene before you arrived. I'm not sure when they started. I don't know what the first log is [00:40:33] Speaker 4: on the crime scene log. Okay. You were the lead investigator in this case, correct? That is correct. Yes. So in reviewing to come to court today to testify, what some of the questions you knew you were going to be asked is who responded to the scene, correct? Yes. Okay. And in doing that, that you had access to the reports, crime scene logs, any information that would tell you that, correct? Yes. And this, my client got arrested in 2021. This is five years ago, right? Yes, sir. Okay. So that's, you had some time prepared for the case to figure out, you know, because there's, there's a lot of talk about crime scene and a lot of questions about, you know, crime scene integrity. So it seems like it would be important to know who had been there before you arrived, correct? Yes. And how many hours had elapsed between the 9-1-1 call and the time [00:41:24] Speaker 1: that you actually got to the crime scene itself? It was certainly not hours. Um, I would say it was [00:41:33] Speaker 4: less than 30 minutes. Do you know that it was less than 30 minutes or is that sort of an estimation? [00:41:39] Speaker 1: If you would provide, if you could provide me my, um, my report, my type report, it should have the time [00:41:46] Speaker 4: on there of arrival. Sure. We've got to get it out of the box. Okay. [00:42:00] Speaker 3: And one moment, Your Honor, so the page range, correct? Sure. [00:42:03] Speaker ?: You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. [00:42:28] Speaker 4: Thank you. [00:42:58] Speaker 3: You're going to mark that as defense exhibit number seven, is that correct? [00:43:18] Speaker 4: I think it's number seven, yes, Your Honor. Thank you. Thank you. [00:43:59] Speaker ?: Thank you. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. [00:44:10] Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. [00:44:13] Speaker ?: I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. I thought you were going to have it, Captain. Yeah. You talked about the settlement as you investigated the case, correct? Yes. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? [00:44:22] Speaker 4: Yes. Okay. [00:44:24] Speaker ?: And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. Okay. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. Okay. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. Okay. [00:44:34] Speaker 4: And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. Okay. And that would start on September 7th, 2012, correct? Yes. And that would be in the pages of your report, in the bottom right, it looks like the page numbers. Do you see page 112? I do. Is that the first page of your case supplemental report in this investigation? Yes. Looking at this, does this reflect your recollection as to what time you responded to the scene? [00:45:07] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:45:08] Speaker 4: What time would that be? [00:45:10] Speaker 1: It says, "We arrived about 11:30." It actually looks like there's a mistake on there. It says 11:30 p.m. And it would have been 11:30 a.m. [00:45:19] Speaker 4: And when you went into the apartment yourself, the first time you did the log through, do you remember how long you were inside? [00:45:29] Speaker 1: Again, I'd have to refer specifically to a log to give you an exact time. But it was less than 10 minutes. Did you call a medical examiner? [00:45:37] Speaker ?: If you'll give me a moment to look through. And you can refresh your memory, you just can't read from the report. [00:45:37] Speaker 1: That's fine. [00:45:38] Speaker ?: But you can look through it. Yes, sir. Yes, I called the medical examiner. Did you call the medical examiner? If you'll give me a moment to look through. And you can refresh your memory, you just can't read from the report. That's fine. [00:45:43] Speaker 4: But you can look through it. Yes, sir. [00:45:45] Speaker ?: Yes, I called the medical examiner's office. [00:45:45] Speaker 4: And what did you remember? [00:45:46] Speaker ?: Did you call the medical examiner? Did you call the medical examiner? [00:45:48] Speaker 1: If you'll give me a moment to look through. [00:45:51] Speaker 3: And you can refresh your memory, you just can't read from the report. That's fine. But you can look through it. [00:45:55] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Yes, I called the medical examiner's office. And what did you report, if you remember? I told them that we were on the scene of a death investigation. [00:46:23] Speaker 4: Did you put anything in your notes about the condition of Faith's body at that point? [00:46:34] Speaker 3: And so the record's clear. She's being asked to refresh her recollection with this exhibit. She's not reading directly from the exhibit. Therefore, Captain, once you refresh your recollection, you can let us know. Thank you, Your Honor. [00:46:50] Speaker 4: It may be in a call to Captain Britton, my case, so we can go through this, Your Honor. But just for purposes of cross-examination, I'm going to use the supplement for repression of recollection. That'll be fine. [00:47:03] Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what I told the medical examiner at that time. Generally, we provide a description of the conditions that we would have seen when we went in the scene. [00:47:16] Speaker 4: You got asked a couple of questions earlier about observations and observations that he had made. Do you remember that? Yes. In looking through that, I think you said you looked through a supplement of his to prepare for today. Didn't he make note in his supplement that he saw a mark on Ms. Rosario's shoulder that looked like a bruise? He did, yes. And then she told him it was a birthmark? [00:47:41] Speaker 1: Correct. [00:47:42] Speaker 4: Okay. [00:47:43] Speaker ?: Was it? [00:47:44] Speaker 1: I wouldn't, you'd have to ask her. I wouldn't have knowledge as to whether that was a birthmark or not. Okay. [00:47:51] Speaker 4: Did you ever follow up with her on that? [00:47:54] Speaker 1: I do not recall if I asked her that specific question. [00:48:00] Speaker 4: Thank you, Kathy. So, we saw about an hour's worth of footage earlier from, and it was, I guess at the time, it was Sergeant Rodney Matthews, and he was conducting an interview with Ms. Rosario on September the 8th of 2012. Were you present for that interview? [00:48:26] Speaker 1: I do not believe I was present for the one on the 8th, no. [00:48:30] Speaker 4: Why did he conduct it? [00:48:33] Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, an investigation is kind of an all-hands-on-deck thing. Rodney was my sergeant at the time. He was a supervisor. So, he actually did a lot of the interactions, did some of the interviews with Karina and with other people as well. So, he was, he was part of the team just like anybody else. [00:48:51] Speaker 4: In that interview, there was a discussion that they were going to go back to the apartment on the night of September 8th, 2012. Do you know if you went back to the apartment that night? [00:49:00] Speaker 1: I did not. [00:49:01] Speaker 4: There was a photograph of Faith's car that was shown to you earlier. The gas cap was open. Do you know if that got swabbed for DNA? It did not. Why? [00:49:14] Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. It's hard to think through what our thought process was 14 years ago, and so I do not know why that was not swabbed at the time. [00:49:25] Speaker 4: And it's swabbed, but you recall that the doorknobs, or I guess the front doorknob had been swabbed, correct? [00:49:31] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:49:32] Speaker 4: Why was the decision not to send that to the, to be tested? [00:49:35] Speaker 1: I don't, I do not have an answer for that. [00:49:39] Speaker 4: Do you know if the Chapel Hill Police Department still has that swab? [00:49:45] Speaker 1: You'd have to ask one of the, I would, you'd have to ask one of our crime scene techs that if it's in evidence. [00:49:54] Speaker 4: We had a lot of testimony last week about a swab of blood that was taken from the interior bathroom door frame. Uh, Miss, uh, well, now retired, uh, Ms. Shalifia Wright-Quick said that a swab had been collected from the door, the interior of the bathroom and put into a white box and loaded up and then ultimately had disappeared. Were you aware of that testimony? [00:50:22] Speaker 1: I haven't watched any of this trial, so no, I'm not aware of that testimony. [00:50:26] Speaker 4: Were you aware that that blood swab was collected but then lost? [00:50:32] Speaker 1: I was not involved with the crime scene processing. Um, I did learn much, much later on that that swab was lost. And when I say much later on, like more recent to this trial. [00:50:43] Speaker 4: So nobody, you were the lead investigator, but nobody, none of these, no individuals came forward to you and said, listen, there's this flood that was on, you know, the door frame of the bathroom and we had it, we lost it? [00:50:57] Speaker 1: So the ID techs don't report, did not report to me. Um, I was an investigator, not a supervisor. Um, I also had very little dealings with the actual crime scene processing since I'd only set foot in there twice. I was more focused on talking to people and doing interviews. Okay. [00:51:15] Speaker 4: When you found out, well, so I guess, just so I'm clear for the record. When you, you found out recently about this, so during the entire investigation, you know, any, any conversations about that with Sergeant Matthews? [00:51:28] Speaker 1: Sergeant, Sergeant Matthews handled, he, the ID techs report directly to Sergeant Matthews. He primarily was the one who dictated what items of evidence were sent to the state lab, as far as those evidentiary, um, items go. There were more group discussions on the individuals who were going to be sent to be compared against our unknown swab, our unknown DNA, male DNA. [00:51:58] Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about a, a different sample in this case, the one from the bathroom. Do you, you were the lead investigator in this case, so would the ultimate decision on what to get tested come down to the lead investigator? No. Okay. Can you help me understand that? And I don't mean that in a smart aleck way, I just try to learn the process. [00:52:15] Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, so again, Sergeant Matthews was the supervisor of the division and he made those decisions about what was going to be sent to the state lab. They report directly to him. They do not report to me. [00:52:30] Speaker 4: When you say that, you mean the times and technicians? Correct. Okay. What about him? Did he report to you as lead investigator? [00:52:37] Speaker 1: When I say report to, it's more, I'm speaking more in terms of chain of command. Um, there's a lot of rank and structure at the police department, similar to the military. And so, Sergeant Matthews was my boss. He was also the boss of the ID techs. Um, so they did not report directly to me in any capacity that would be like a supervisory capacity. Yeah, I understand. [00:53:03] Speaker 4: Okay. You were lead investigator with Sergeant Matthews. Yeah. [00:53:08] Speaker 1: Outranged me. [00:53:09] Speaker 4: Was it? Not anymore. Um, so you report to the Hawthorne and the View that day. How many buildings were there or are there, I guess? [00:53:23] Speaker 1: I'd have to look at a map, um, just to, just so I can make sure I'm speaking correctly about that number. Okay. [00:53:30] Speaker 4: We can get the diagram in just a couple of minutes, but is a lot of people living there? Hundreds of people? Yes. [00:53:36] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:53:37] Speaker 4: And how many patrol supervisors or patrol sergeants or patrol officers were out there canvassing? If you recall. [00:53:47] Speaker 1: I do not recall. [00:53:49] Speaker 4: You, you said the 1,400 building. Do you know how many units were in the 1,400 building? [00:53:55] Speaker 1: I do not. [00:53:56] Speaker 4: What about the 1,500 building? [00:53:58] Speaker 1: No, I do not know how many, exactly, there are apartments in that building, no. [00:54:03] Speaker 4: So I guess you guys were dividing up, um, labor as to who would talk to, you know, you go knock on these doors and somebody else goes and knocks on these doors? [00:54:13] Speaker 1: In a sense, yes. In a sense, yes. [00:54:15] Speaker 4: In doing that, you're trying to gather information about whether anybody heard something from the night report, perhaps? Yes. And if anybody had additional information that might allow you to follow up, talk to somebody else, correct? Yes. For instance, like the, the downstairs neighbor that lived below and was hedgehog, Joy Barker, have you heard that name? Yes. Did you ever speak to her? [00:54:39] Speaker 1: Um, I believe I have spoken to her before, yes. [00:54:42] Speaker 4: And she made, she, I guess she gave a written statement around 12:30 on September 7th, 2012, documenting what she heard the night before, correct? Yes. And did you review that? [00:54:56] Speaker 1: I'm aware of what her, I don't know that I've looked at her written statement, but I'm aware of what she has reported to police, yes. [00:55:05] Speaker 4: And what is your, what is your awareness of? [00:55:07] Speaker 3: Objection. Wrong. Overruled, she can answer if she knows. Okay. Okay. [00:55:15] Speaker 1: Um, so my recollection is, is that Ms. Joy reported hearing noises from upstairs, um, early, in the early hours of that morning. [00:55:28] Speaker 4: So, noises from upstairs in the early hours? Did you follow up on that to figure out what kind of noise is and what time frame? [00:55:45] Speaker 1: There were several people that talked to, to Joy and interviewed her. So, I don't know that it was me specifically, but I know Sergeant Matthews did, um, and I believe Investigator Bosselman spoke to her as well. [00:55:58] Speaker 4: I mean, the reason I'm asking is you, you talked about getting information that will, you know, focus an investigation one way or the other, correct? Yes. So, a downstairs neighbor reporting, hearing noises in the early morning hours, that would be something that you would want to consider in an investigation like this, wouldn't you? Yes. So, knowing her written statement and what she, I guess, wrote as close in time, um, as possible to when she says she heard those noises, that would be something that you would also want to consider, you know, the close proximity of what she's writing in relation to when she says that she heard it. Sure. [00:56:37] Speaker 1: You'll have to repeat that question. I'm not sure what you're asking. [00:56:40] Speaker 4: I'll do it way better because that was a terrible question. If somebody writes a statement six months later, time's passed, right? But if somebody writes a statement the morning of, they say they heard something, it's closer in time. The memory hasn't had time to be affected by things like the media, right? Yes. So, you want to get statements from people as soon as possible while their memories are still fresh, correct? [00:57:03] Speaker 1: Yes. [00:57:04] Speaker 4: So, somebody like a downstairs neighbor reporting hearing noises, the earlier you get a statement from that person, the better, correct? Yes. Same thing. That's why you're talking to, um, Marisol and Ms. Rosario. Yes. You want to get that information down. Okay. So, you remember, I think you mentioned, um, Ms. Rosario's ex-boyfriend had actually come onto the, to the scene? [00:57:30] Speaker 1: Um, he came up to the crime scene tape, yes. [00:57:33] Speaker 4: Okay. And had you ever encountered him before? [00:57:36] Speaker 1: Prior to that day? Yes, ma'am. I, I had not, no. [00:57:41] Speaker 4: The, and Marisol, she alerted you that there was a restraining order against him? Yes. And what did you do at that point? [00:57:51] Speaker 1: I'd have to look at my, I'd have to refresh my memory from my notes to see if I took any action on that. [00:57:59] Speaker 4: If you wouldn't mind doing that just briefly. And if it doesn't, refresh it. [00:58:29] Speaker 1: I don't recall if I took any action with, um, Decoy at that point. [00:58:44] Speaker 4: We talked about the medical examiner a little bit earlier. Um, when you had that conversation, and you probably had a lot of homicide investigations. If you recall that the medical examiner stressed there should be minimal movement of Faith's body? Yes. [00:59:04] Speaker 1: We would do that in, in any investigation. [00:59:07] Speaker 4: Was there minimal movement of Faith's body, to your knowledge? To your knowledge? [00:59:14] Speaker 1: To my knowledge, yes. But again, I did not spend much time on the crime scene, but we did not, nobody disturbed that body. [00:59:23] Speaker 4: How do you know? [00:59:24] Speaker 1: Because it's protocol. That, that is our, our crime scene text. They could attest to whether they moved the body or not. I can attest to that. Okay. [00:59:35] Speaker 4: So it would be dependent on what their recollection was? Yes. [00:59:39] Speaker 1: Because they were there and I was not. [00:59:41] Speaker 4: Do you know what time Faith's body was transported to the medical examiner's office? [00:59:46] Speaker 1: Um, I do not. Um, I do not. Um, I don't believe I was on scene when it was transported. [00:59:51] Speaker 4: So, fair to say, you don't know who transported? Or maybe you do. [00:59:55] Speaker 1: We would have a record of who transported. There's a transport company that's used by the medical examiner's office and it would have been them who transported her body. [01:00:05] Speaker 4: But you don't have a recollection of when that was done? What time her body was transferred from the apartment? [01:00:16] Speaker 1: I do not know exactly what time her body was transported from the apartment. [01:00:20] Speaker 4: You mentioned the name Jordan McCrary, uh, earlier in your testimony. At some point on the 7th, did you get a, a voicemail message from Mr. McCrary? Yes. Tell me about that to the best of your recollection. [01:00:33] Speaker 1: Um, I had, when I spoke to Jordan on the scene that afternoon, I gave him my card and I told him to call me if he thought of something else. And he did. He called and left me a voicemail message in my office. Um, and reported that he had a conversation, a brief conversation with Karina where he reported that there was blood on her hand. [01:00:58] Speaker 4: And did you keep that voicemail message? Yes. And was that the sort of information, getting that voicemail from Jordan? Did you act on that information? [01:01:09] Speaker 1: Yes. There was follow-up done on that. Yes. [01:01:12] Speaker 4: Can you tell me about that? [01:01:13] Speaker 1: Um, I know Jordan was called back in for an interview. Um, Sergeant Matthews conducted that interview with Jordan. [01:01:20] Speaker 4: Any additional follow-up from what Jordan told to Sergeant Matthews? I mean, we would have followed up with Karina as well. [01:01:29] Speaker 1: Yes. [01:01:30] Speaker 4: I mean the car. The car that they were riding. Oh, okay. Yeah. Do you know if there, any testing was done of the, the car? Yes. Okay. Okay. And who did the testing of the, the car that Jordan and Karina were riding in that night? Do you recall? [01:01:44] Speaker ?: Do you recall? [01:01:45] Speaker 4: I do not recall. [01:01:47] Speaker 1: Do you recall? Do you recall? [01:01:49] Speaker ?: Do you recall? Do you recall? Do you recall? Do you recall? Do you recall? [01:01:54] Speaker 4: Do you recall? Do you recall? Do you recall? Yes. Okay. [01:01:59] Speaker 1: Who is she? She works for the State Bureau of Investigation. Okay. [01:02:02] Speaker 4: What was she, or back in 2012, if you remember, what, what was her role? [01:02:06] Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what her exact job was at the time, no. Okay. [01:02:10] Speaker 4: What was her role in regard to the, the car that Jordan and Ms. Rosario were riding in? [01:02:16] Speaker 1: She was asked to come in and look at that vehicle and, and test it. Look at it for evidence and test it. [01:02:23] Speaker 4: And as lead investigator, is that something you thought was important to do? [01:02:27] Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely. [01:02:29] Speaker 4: Because you wanted to follow up on information, correct? [01:02:32] Speaker 1: Correct. [01:02:33] Speaker 3: All right. We're going to go ahead and stop now. Ladies and gentlemen, once again, I'm going to ask you to remember, please do not express an opinion, nor form an opinion, nor discuss the case. I simply want you to enjoy your evening. We're going to return promptly tomorrow morning at 9:30. Everyone else, remain seated other than law enforcement. While the jury leaves the courtroom, if you'll leave your pins and pads in the chairs, have a great evening. Thank you very much.