NOLAN WELLS BOMBSHELL: DEAD TEEN'S MESSAGES DELETED AFTER BODY "WASHES ASHORE?"

[0:00] nolan wells bombshell tonight the dead teen's messages deleted after his body washes ashore [0:15] good evening i'm nancy grace this is crime stories i want to thank you for being with us 18 year old [0:28] football star nolan wells heads to horn island with his friends to celebrate the 4th of july [0:33] but hours later after he doesn't return to shore his friends report him missing [0:36] launching a desperate search across the water they met that day and it was kind of it's kind of one of [0:43] those things it did come off that day that he really did like her but that was the only time [0:48] they've ever hung out was at horn island on july 4th we're sinking can you all please come and is [0:53] everybody on board and good health otherwise yeah yeah everybody talks from our friends at gma no [0:58] everyone was not on board nolan was not on board and who's the mysterious girl he met [1:06] for the very first time the day he goes missing his body spotted by the united cajun navy [1:13] washed ashore we have obtained that photo we are choosing tonight not to show it that last [1:20] sound from our friends at mbc joining me an all-star panel but first straight out to todd [1:25] terrell representing the united cajun navy participating in the water search for nolan wells [1:31] todd thank you for being with us what did you observe you know horn island that area right [1:37] there is an area that we have seaplanes that we operate back and forth to the island taking people [1:42] back and forth fishing or all field workers you know back off to rigs and stuff um that morning [1:49] um the the body was observed on the northwest portion of horn island um which is not unusual for [1:56] someone to drown and be washed up in that area um there was a park ranger that was on the island [2:01] that actually had spotted the body and we were calling in down to law enforcement officials on [2:06] the ground what we saw from the air todd terrell joining us from the united cajun navy called in to [2:12] participate in the water search for this young star athlete nolan wells tonight mystery swirling around his [2:23] death how is it that a group of his friends go out on a boat they go to a remote horn island there is [2:32] nobody there it's uninhabited there is there are no phones there are no bathrooms it's just a hangout [2:38] place how does he end up dead on the shore and everybody else makes it back i want you to hear [2:47] one more time what the group is saying about that day they met that day and it was kind of it's kind [2:56] of one of those things it did come off that day that he really did like her but that that was the [3:01] only time they've ever hung out was at horn island on july 4th from our friends at gma who who is she [3:07] where is she what if anything did she have to do if there is a she with no one's death that's from [3:14] our friends at gma back to you todd terrell and i'm about to go to caitlin becker a senior national [3:20] correspondent new york post on the story from the get-go todd you stated to me that it's quote not [3:29] unusual for bodies to wash ashore in that spot what do you mean by that because if it was that common [3:40] wouldn't this be designated a dangerous area and there would be warning signs what do you mean it's not [3:46] unusual i find that hard to believe well many areas along the coast of the whole gulf coast area [3:54] is a dangerous area you know i don't believe they could put up signs anywhere i think it should be [3:58] known that these are these are bad areas the rip current is very bad in that northwestern portion we [4:03] call it the washing machine actually it's an area where the current just just rolls round and round in [4:08] there like kind of like a washing machine and one of the interesting things was where no one was found [4:14] was probably pretty close to where the incident occurred so the body didn't go that far okay what [4:22] incident was there an incident are you suggesting todd terrell todd terrell uh joining us tonight from [4:29] the united cajun navy our friends by the way at the united cajun navy they are called in on many many [4:37] missing persons case todd you stated the incident what incident you mean he didn't drown we're saying [4:45] that whatever happened we're calling an incident our job as united cajun navy is to bring people home [4:50] back to their families first of all alive second of all recover the body if possible we knew in this [4:55] case uh the time frame that was involved that we were looking for a recovery at this point but when [5:00] i said the incident something happened to make nolan not be with us anymore um it appears as though it was a [5:08] drowning you know there was a lot of rumors about him being brought back to the land 10 miles away and [5:13] and you know brought back out there and jumped off i don't believe any of that is true whatever [5:17] happened in that water we're calling the incident you know the water goes from two to three foot to [5:22] like 20 feet real real quick you know there was some underage kids out there drinking it's an island [5:28] you know there's no ids being checked or anything like that so we said an incident there's anything that [5:33] could have happened and not every person that drowns do you hear screaming and hooping and hollering [5:38] but at this point our job was to bring nolan home and we did that what was observed guys you're seeing [5:45] right now from our friends at the united cajun navy the video taken from their aerial craft on the beach [5:55] you see a grouping of individuals now from another source we have obtained photos of nolan's body that [6:05] we are not showing it's just not right but i can tell you when you see that grouping of people on the [6:13] beach uh they look like little ant figures from this high up above but that is where nolan's body is [6:22] they're standing around it as i recall todd terrell nolan was face down still fully clothed on the [6:32] beach is that correct yes that is correct he was face down which would have meant that he drowned now [6:39] when we say he was found fully clothed beach it was in the same vicinity of where he possibly drowned [6:49] you know um right there so it was not uncommon for the body to have washed up right [6:54] there that being said that area full of rip currents really strong right there goes from two to three [6:59] foot to 20 feet pretty much within a couple steps so that being said whatever happened happened really [7:08] really close to where the body was found you know todd terrell i don't mean to be giving you a hard time [7:13] this is not about you the united cajun navy are the protagonist in this scenario you're the good guys [7:19] i've just got so many questions about how this happened was there anyone else on horn island [7:27] when nolan's body was found now there was a the park ranger was out there and there was some law [7:34] enforcement officials that actually had their boats anchored out there you know they were kind of like [7:39] waiting around for a call what to do what people don't realize is when you're looking for a body on [7:44] the water especially in the gulf where you have waves going and you have white caps it's a little bit harder to [7:50] see when you're in a boat you can only kind of see the vicinity around you so we put these sea planes [7:55] up in the air we can get a much more visual of the much more bigger area and these sea planes can go [8:01] low and slow so what we do is we stay in contact with the officials on the ground and tell them what [8:06] we see and if they see something too they can relay it up to us and we can go investigate it so in this [8:11] case there were several law enforcement boats that were just kind of hanging out in the area on the island [8:16] and there was numerous other boats in the area you know circling and and looking but the body was [8:22] found by a park ranger as it washed up on the beach you know very curious todd um guys joining us todd [8:28] terrell with united cajun navy when i said was anyone else on the island when no one's body was found your [8:39] answer was completely 100 accurate but let me rephrase and refine my question you're saying the park ranger [8:46] found him that leads me to believe there were no friends there was no newly met girlfriend so am i [8:54] left to believe that he goes out swimming all on his own and the friend girl leaves the mates from [9:04] school leave everybody just leaves him out in the water and he dies and then just conveniently washes ashore [9:11] somebody just left him out in the water does that make sense to you todd terrell well [9:17] you know being being a person that goes to this island and in several other areas that you can [9:23] only get to by boat we have some restaurants and bars in louisiana that you can only get to by boat [9:27] which means you have to hitch a ride with somebody on a boat or that has a boat to get there which a lot [9:33] of things could go wrong in that scenario but as far as what we believe i believe that nolan went out [9:40] there with a group of friends they were friendly obviously so because he was even out there i mean you [9:45] you got to understand to go to an island you have to have a boat which means you have to have friends [9:49] which you have to have people that kind of like you to even bring you out there so when nolan got [9:54] out there the group of guys he was with you know they decided to come in a little bit earlier they [9:58] were having some eating trouble in their boat which is not uncommon happens a lot um nolan for whatever [10:03] reason decided to stay on the island which is not uncommon he could have you know had this girl he was [10:08] talking to he could have just for whatever reason decided to stay not uncommon that doesn't give us any [10:13] reason to think our play or anything was involved there the issue is when he stayed on the island [10:19] he had to hitch a ride back in with somebody and there's where the issue becomes who did he hitch a [10:26] ride back in exactly how were these people connected to him how did they know him and it's not uncommon [10:32] for you not to know somebody at all and just say hey i need to ride back in they say yeah come on get [10:36] in the boat with us so if i say hey nancy come on get in the boat with us that means at that point [10:41] we're responsible for you but but todd todd here's my issue again i agree with what you said but the [10:48] critical moment is somebody had to leave him there alone for the rest of the scenario that you're [10:55] describing to unfold he had to be alone and todd and i'm going to bring you the rest of the panel [11:00] i want you to hear this that is from anna moore on snapchat and you have to listen very [11:31] intently to hear what she claims is being said todd terrell united cajun navy please don't don't [11:42] move joining me now caitlin becker the senior national correspondent new york post she is the star [11:48] of new york post cast new york post cast that's her podcast caitlin thank you for being with us now [11:55] according to what this anna moore on snapchat has revealed you can hear and this is also according to [12:03] the attorneys give me my effing phone this is no one reportedly talking what the eff are you doing [12:11] the friend they claim uh tristan shepherd i can't tell that from what i'm hearing the friend says get [12:19] off me get the f off this boat f you bro now the voice we believe is nolan's is give my effing phone [12:30] what the eff are you doing and then another voice get off me get the f off this boat f you okay what [12:38] do we know and caitlin becker joining us from new york post who is this mysterious friend girl because i [12:45] want to talk to her i want to talk to her too nancy the the video is tough the snapchat is [12:52] really tough because you do clearly hear an angry altercation there is the assumption that we're [12:58] working off of that it is nolan however a few other friends have confirmed it's not nolan there's [13:04] actually someone who said it was me not him so you have someone coming forward saying that is not him [13:10] on the video so then did no altercation actually take place or is someone jumping in saying that's me [13:17] to misdirect or to redirect us from looking at it that's the one question the other question that [13:23] you asked is who's the girl her name is apparently allegedly katie that's kind of all we know just [13:30] katie someone purporting to be related to katie went on social media and this is not something that [13:36] we've been able to confirm nor have investigators confirmed it but according to this person katie said [13:43] we met we talked he seemed like he was going back on the boat with his friends and that was that [13:49] so katie okay hold on right there caitlin becker caitlin caitlin caitlin right there the girl if she [14:01] exists says they talked they chatted it up probably flirting with each other if accounts are true then he [14:11] leaves to go back to the boat with his friends but according to the friends he stayed with her right [14:16] there that is a conflict that doesn't fit now caitlin becker and the rest of the panel i want you to [14:25] hear this is that nolan in the video i can't tell it's too far away but in that video i feel like it's [14:32] the voices are too clear like from the side it's too clear for it to be that far away for it to be nolan [14:38] nolan arguing and then also that altercation it sounds just like my other friend that got into [14:42] the altercation on the boat and they were trying to like as he was in the altercation i was calming [14:47] him down they were trying to get him out off the island they're trying to get him back to land because [14:51] he was just losing it okay so you've got that's from our friend harvey lovin at tmz so you've got half [14:57] the people saying that is no one that's in an altercation and is getting thrown off the boat and then [15:03] you got half the people going oh no no no that's not him but to me the clear problem is that critical [15:10] moment where katie if she exists says he went back with his friends and the friends say oh no we left [15:16] he wanted to stay with her right there that is the first conflict both cannot be true those cannot [15:25] mutually exist in truth they're mutually exclusive he can't go with them and stay with her on horn island [15:33] right there john mobley joining me high profile lawyer out of charleston south carolina john that's [15:42] where it starts that like i don't know who's lying but somebody's lying right there mobley well i don't [15:50] know that i would necessarily agree with you on that i think they can be both partially true dependent [15:55] on perspective i think one thing we have to kind of keep in mind with this is we have a lot of different [16:00] people telling things from different perspectives from their own individual's perspectives it's [16:06] certainly conceivable that he let his friend leave to stay with the female if he was with the female [16:13] assuming that happened and once he finished his communication or whatever he was doing the female [16:22] told her he was leaving to go back with his friends and from her standpoint he said he was going back [16:26] with his friends which did not necessarily mean they were the same friend that dropped them off so [16:31] i would disagree with you on that hold on mobley let me see mobley mobley you're right because [16:39] as i've told many many juries as a trial judge once always said in his jury instructions it is your duty [16:50] to make all witnesses speak the truth and imping perjury to no one so actually what you're saying [16:57] could be could be true if there's another group of friends if they exist we haven't heard about [17:02] him but you're saying he left with one group and had planned to come back with another group okay [17:07] i don't know if you're just spinning that out but that could be possible okay mobley listen to [17:13] this you said that you hear on the video nolan saying yes that's what a witness told us and that's [17:20] what we reported out then another witness said no that was his voice we have other witnesses said [17:26] there were other altercations so as mr hurt said we're trying to go through it all and so forth and [17:31] we'll be even more careful to say this is what a witness told us in the future now we have audio [17:41] people doing it but we know certain people said it was him and then certain people said it was not him [17:47] that is our friend high profile lawyer ben crump and the last thing you want is him three inches up [17:54] your tailpipe okay uh that's my friends at fox 10. so this is where it stands who left him there [18:03] is there really a katie did he stay with her did he leave with his friends how did he end up there [18:10] alone which i find very very disturbing and also back to caitlin becker joining a senior national [18:17] correspondent new york post star of ny post cast the post cast instead of podcast it's a post cast [18:26] caitlin now allegations have reared their ugly head that his phone has been tampered with and items have [18:38] been deleted explain they had his phone and when his mother was looking for his phone when they when he [18:47] was missing there were two different ways to identify it either snapchat location or a life [18:53] 360 location they showed different locations which is very possible because one updates automatically [18:59] the other only updates when you open the app but when she finally tracked it down she says there was [19:06] nothing on it from that day and this is a teenager this is a teenager who is constantly on their phones [19:12] yes when you're on a boat like this and you're you're out there you leave it on the boat [19:17] because you can't really get it wet you don't want to have it come to the beach with you because [19:22] you have to actually go in the water to get there but to have the phone from these friends who didn't [19:27] willingly turn it over didn't give it to investigators didn't give it to his mom just had it and for her [19:33] to open it up and say i see nothing from that day no snapchats no photos it looked like things were [19:40] missing like there was a gap in the timeline of the life cycle of his phone okay i've got another [19:45] problem uh regarding his phone and well number one to dr janey lacy joining us licensed psychotherapist [19:51] ceo of life counseling solutions author of well many books but how to heal from a toxic relationship [19:59] and she's a star of let's talk about it with janey lacy okay dr janey who leaves their phone behind [20:07] now look i just got off a boat with my twins we went fishing all over the panhandle we have what you [20:15] call dry bags we don't leave our boat we don't leave our phone anywhere because what if we need [20:21] it what if we need it out in the middle of nowhere and we were on a little strip land right off the [20:27] gulf where like horn island there's no people we were there fishing alone believe it or not and we had [20:36] our cell phones now i'm an adult a teen what teen leaves their cell phone uh none exactly nancy i have [20:48] a teenager his phone is with him in his pocket all the time and he even brings his phone to the bathroom [20:54] so we know that teens do not leave their phone it is their way to communicate it is attached to them [20:59] so when i think about what we're talking about right here is right concealment and i can't speak to [21:05] what these young people did but i can tell you especially young people when it comes to their [21:10] phone and they're constantly posting things it is their norm so when it comes to deleting hiding or [21:15] even going silent after a tragedy to me it's almost always driven by fear fear of potential blame [21:21] fear of consequences fear of what the truth might mean about themselves but we know that secrets [21:27] don't protect and when teens don't have their phone or when their phone potentially is taken from [21:33] their friends we know that there's a reason behind that it's usually driven by by fear nancy okay [21:38] i got another issue caitlin becker joining us uh with new york post caitlin the life 360 seems to [21:48] show something very different than other digital evidence what do you know about that discrepancy [21:55] it comes down to location where the life 360 shows him on dry land versus where the snapchat [22:01] showed him in the water where he was and where the phone was positioned so that is something that [22:06] i think forensic investigators have to to look into digital forensic investigators because it's [22:12] difficult to determine from looking at it from our perspective where was the phone actually was it out [22:16] on the water at the last time it was used was it on dry land at the last time it was used and when his [22:22] mom went to go pick it up who was the last person to have used it that's something that sticks out to [22:28] me because i have to imagine it was password protected and why would someone else have his [22:34] password but it seems as though his mom did or that they did so they were able to get into the [22:39] phone so the timeline of his disappearance is a big question mark because you're getting two [22:45] different locations from two different apps hi guys nancy grace here if you are a homeowner you [22:53] probably thought should i call american financing to refinance and pay off this debt but you don't [23:00] because of your low mortgage rate that low rate it's not saving you if you're drowning in credit card [23:08] interest people are calling american financing and american financing is saving customers an average of [23:15] eight hundred dollars that's not in all that's a month by using their equity to pay off the credit card [23:24] debt using their home equity to pay off credit card debt no upfront fees it costs you nothing to find [23:32] out what you could be saving and if you start today you may be able to delay two mortgage payments [23:40] american financing 866-888-0344 repeat 866-888-0344 [23:51] or just go online to americanfinancing.net slash nancy disclaimer nmls 182334 [24:02] nmlsconsumeraccess.org apr for rates and the 5s start at 6.327 for well qualified borrowers call 866-888-0344 [24:18] for details about credit costs and terms go to http colon hashtag hashtag www.americanfinancing.net [24:32] slash nancy average savings are based on borrowers who save over 199.99 and good luck they open up their [24:48] snapchat because a lot of the kids do have their locations where they're tracking one another um so [24:55] one of the boys says well it's showing that i think i can't exactly remember what his location was showing [25:04] but my live 360 location was showing something completely different it was actually showing that [25:11] his phone was like he was on land and and so we ended up she received the phone from that parent [25:20] so the snapchat location looks completely different than the life 360 location so when i pulled up life [25:27] 360 it was different it was showing everywhere the phone had been like it had i was like well it's showing [25:33] that he's back on land like i'm not he's like but no he didn't come back with us n o i've tracked my son [25:42] a hundred times when he's fishing and it shows he's in the water when he's off the water it shows he's [25:51] on land the mom is right you were just hearing christine wansley that is no one's mother from our [25:59] friends at national action network and gma okay i got a big problem with the life 360 and the phone [26:08] data all not jiving i could see it john mobley being a few blocks off but not the discrepancy his mother [26:19] is describing i'm not buying that and another thing while we're talking about discrepancies [26:26] john mobley do you have children i have children i got like 360. i use the iphone location tracker i [26:35] will tell you you know even i'm not a digital data expert that life 360 is not always 100 accurate i [26:43] mean i think in general you have to kind of keep in mind with all of these phones that you know they're [26:49] dependent upon the signal they're reaching the coverage i mean as you know you can have a group of [26:54] people together which means they're going to take up more bandwidth and that's going to cause signal [26:57] interruption i think it'd be premature for anyone to try to interpret the data without an accurate [27:04] digital download being conducted on the phone oh okay i'm sure life 360 in the iphone industry is going [27:11] to call you on that i'm really surprised at this juncture mobley that you'll actually argue with digital [27:17] forensic evidence but okay who should i believe you or the phone the live 360 and the iphone track [27:26] but that said the reason i asked you oh i'm hearing something and it's you mobley if you have teams [27:34] you should know about snapchat okay at the supper table the tools to go did you see so-and-so i'm like no [27:41] i didn't and they go oh here's a snap they hold it up and they go don't touch it mother or it will i [27:48] don't know delete i don't know what it does to it but a snapchat you get to look at it once and it's [27:54] gone see that's a problem forensically and law enforcement wise with snapchat because they they're [28:01] gone unlike a text or you send a photo or an email or you send a video as alex murdoch that nailed his [28:09] coffin those stay snapchats disappear into the ether so if the snapchats aren't there i can understand [28:18] that if there are texts deleted i don't understand that okay let's hear you explain that digital [28:28] phenomena now i want to be clear i want to just you know go back to what you talked about earlier you [28:33] talked about the digital evidence there has not been digital forensic evidence extracted from the cell [28:38] phone yet what you have are the young man's parents interpreting what they see on the phone and [28:44] speculating that something must be missing that's what you have but both you know you need to have [28:50] a forensic digital data extraction and correct that can determine the text messages were sent [28:56] whether they're deleted if photos are deleted all that needs to be done i mean there's no doubt about [29:01] that whatsoever but just individuals kind of looking at the phone trying to interpret these things [29:06] that's not digital evidence that would not be visible in court and actually you know it would [29:10] not be reliable we also agreed that we will have a mutual inspection of the cell phone with our experts [29:20] and their experts attorney eric hertz is helping lead the investigation team uh with former uh law [29:29] enforcement experts who are going to help us uh with the cell phone download so everybody would be able [29:37] to see at the same time uh what the cell phone has guys uh that is our friend ben crump standing with [29:45] the family that's also from our friends at wlox you know um todd terrell is with us repping the united [29:52] cajun navy he was called in to participate in the water search for no one wells todd i'm curious about [30:00] a theory that you threw out it's not your theory but it is a theory that has been discussed about [30:07] his body being moved well as far as the body being moved several things there like i said before our [30:17] mission is to bring a body home or bring a person back to their family and and their you know their [30:21] loved ones this is on federal land so who has jurisdiction first of all it seems as though [30:27] there's federal jurisdiction out there the fact that they say in the body was moved we've offered [30:32] our services we have some of the best of the best dogs available mr darius case in baton roots where [30:37] the kid was dumped in the landfill we were the ones instrumental in helping bring that to light [30:41] where they're searching for him right now because of our dogs what they found at the gentleman's house [30:44] that's in jail for murder we offered our dogs to bring to the boat there's only one thing [30:50] there will clean blood off of a boat i'm not going to mention it because it'll give people [30:54] ideas but i doubt if somebody would have done something they would have used this chemical to [31:00] remove the blood so we've offered our services to bring the dogs around the boat of everyone that [31:06] was potentially involved in this so the federal land thing is a big deal so the body being dumped [31:12] i would say that let us bring the dog to the boat let us bring it they said the boat was clean [31:16] that night or the night day before there's only one thing that's going to clean it if there's [31:19] blood in that boat we'll find it the other thing is getting back to the phone if these guys had this [31:26] phone they stole his phone why didn't they throw it away why didn't they just throw it in water and [31:30] if there is anything on if it was deleted forensics they should be able to find it you know my thing is [31:36] if you came with these guys and they didn't bring you home that is not uncommon so i think there's where [31:43] the focus needs to be a unless get this notion that there was a body dumped let's bring the dogs to [31:49] that boat and we'd be willing to offer our services to go check that out and b these guys in the boat [31:54] that he came with it's okay that they left him on the island or they didn't bring him in but yeah [32:00] as far as the body being dumped our services are offered and they've been offered to go [32:04] bring the dogs around that boat hi guys nancy grace here please join us on crime stories and stream it [32:13] first on fox one when breaking crime news develops we investigate it and bring it to you bombshell [32:20] updates answers to unanswered questions from cases making the headlines and cases you may never have [32:28] heard of until crime stories we go inside investigations with exclusive interviews crime victims families [32:36] seeking justice investigators experts and sources from within the case itself stay on top of the [32:43] nation's biggest trials with us including gavel to gavel coverage with real-time analysis crime stories [32:52] with nancy grace stream it first on fox one i hope to see you there and thank you friend nolan [33:01] voluntarily said he's going to stay behind and his parents and friends outright reject that they said [33:09] that is not of nolan's character or disposition and had he done so would he have ever not wanted his [33:18] cell phone the young lady he was talking to who said she he told her that he was going to get back [33:26] into the boat with the boys and then the boys said that nolan said he was going to stay and talk with [33:36] her obviously the statements conflict with one another we always taught him to if you go with a group [33:45] you stay with a group um even when he was in college um he was a dad well we're gonna ride down to [33:53] a party or something in another city now so i was i tell him look if you go with five you come back with five [34:00] do not separate from the group because i would say safety is in numbers and he always said yes sir [34:07] so he knew to stay with his group so why would he split from his group i don't know we went in his [34:13] snapchat he had two accounts absolutely nothing it was it wasn't even 24 hours which is how long [34:19] videos and pictures stay in snapchat and i was just like that can't be like i've seen nolan whenever [34:25] he snaps like when he goes and he's having fun like he he does videos like there was absolutely nothing [34:32] no save videos and even my sister was like yeah that's that's suspicious you know that is nolan's [34:42] family the family lawyer on our with our friends at gma and pbs caitlin becker with a senior national [34:49] correspondent new york post star of ny postcast caitlin a lot right there okay you got crump [34:59] and he's saying it is not nolan's character to have stayed behind to start with or much less without [35:07] his phone he identifies the conflict that we have identified tonight between the two stories [35:14] the dad insists he would never have parted with all of his friends and last but not least we're [35:21] hearing not only did snapchats disappear but that nolan was a videographer a photographer he always [35:29] took pictures of the fun times he was having moments with his friends games the whole shebang but they're [35:36] all gone there are not any i also find that disturbing caitlin it's a little odd that there was nothing on the [35:46] phone seemingly from that day that that does strike me as odd i do want to push back a little or set the [35:54] stage a little bit for what this day was like there were multiple boats going out at the same time to [36:00] this island they were filling up with a few teens they left the next group kind of got in this is for [36:05] the reporting and for what some of the witnesses said there was maybe a couple hundred people on that [36:10] island that day that a lot of them were young it was supposed to be some big kind of summer [36:17] extravaganza before everybody you know went back to school so i don't think it's accurate to say [36:25] he wouldn't go back with his friends or he didn't go back with his friends or he didn't intend to go back [36:31] with his friends because i think there were more than just those four friends on one boat that he it [36:37] sounded like the intention was for him to go with another group where i get stuck is the point that [36:43] ben crump made why would he let his phone go back with his friends sure you want to stay and go back [36:50] with another group i get that you heard you know you the the person who was part of the search saying [36:56] that's not uncommon it does sound uncommon for anyone a teenager an adult anyone to say okay go ahead [37:03] and take my phone back with you i'll stay without a means of communication for however long that's [37:10] what gets me why would anybody let their phone go on another boat without them with no plan to get it [37:16] back exactly now regarding snapchat they delete immediately once they're opened they can go about 30 [37:24] days unopened but you can manually set snapchat to a 24-hour delete and i'm wondering if that's what [37:36] his mother is talking about and on another front listen we had his body flown from mississippi to [37:46] washington dc because his family wanted to make sure that they had a doctor who had no ties to [37:55] mississippi law enforcement to do an independent examination of their son's body and we are [38:05] hopeful to get that results uh in the very near future there is famed attorney ben crump speaking [38:12] the parents standing behind him nolan's parents reference at fox 10. dr way in you know nancy you [38:18] know what i would want to stress is what we see with christine who is living through what we call [38:25] ambiguity loss right and it is one of the most excruciating forms of grief there is when a mother [38:31] buries her child with outdoors her nervous system can't even begin to close the wound because i'm [38:38] searching her last memories a hug and a kiss over a salmon dinner and then silence so grief needs a story [38:45] to hold on to and until the family has truth the grief has nowhere to land and that's that's why [38:50] transparency in this investigation isn't just a legal issue in my mind it's a mental health [38:55] intervention for this answers are how they how healing joining us now renowned guest dr kendall [39:02] crowns chief medical examiner tarrant county he is the star of a hit podcast mayhem in the morgue [39:09] he is the esteemed lecturer at the brunette school of medicine at tcu and has performed well over 10 000 [39:19] autopsies dr kennel crowns thank you for being with us okay i don't have a ruling from the medical [39:27] examiner it should be apparent if drowning was the cod cause of death that should be very apparent [39:35] by simply autopsying the lungs also you'd know immediately if there were signs of trauma i've seen [39:44] the photos of his body on the beach but as todd terrell from united cajun navy stated the body was [39:52] placed down so i couldn't see the face the neck the arms the hands for defensive wounds i couldn't see if [39:59] there were bruises to the torso i couldn't see the skull was fractured none of that i couldn't see if [40:05] teeth were missing but it seems to me if those exhibited we would know there had been blunt force [40:14] trauma stabbing shooting uh manual or lucrative asphyxiation we would know that but yet we know [40:22] nothing so to me that would rule out drowning or trauma are they waiting on toxicology is that what [40:34] they're waiting on and why would the body have been sent for an independent autopsy i'm not saying [40:40] there's anything wrong with that but what's going on dr kendall crowns okay to start with [40:50] uh he was in the water for several days i'm sure the water in that area is warm so his body is going [40:56] to be decomposing he'll have skin slippage he's going to have bloating from the decompositional gases [41:04] and then purge fluid coming out of his mouth and other orifices so then you also probably have a [41:10] post-mortem animal scavenging or marine aquatic life scavenging that can create marks on the body as well [41:18] so at autopsy your question wouldn't you be able to see the evidence of injury yes you should still [41:24] be able to see injuries bruises stab wounds gunshot wounds all that even in decomposition can still be [41:30] seen can still be determined it doesn't sound like he's been consumed by aquatic life to the point that [41:36] he's skeletonized in the front of his body so my assumption is you would still be able to see injuries [41:43] now they are they have not given a definitive cause a manner of death yet because to me that [41:48] means there's no obvious signs of injuries or no obvious cause of death because drowning yes the [41:55] lungs can swell and be heavy with fluid but this can also happen with drug overdoses so differentiating a [42:03] drowning from a drug overdose is difficult so you know no no and oh yes well i don't know how many [42:11] autopsies manifest in the same but i've done a lot so absolutely zero but i don't need to have my md [42:19] or be the lecturer at burnett school of medicine to know that if the lungs are full and it could be [42:26] drowning or um fluid caused by an overdose can't you get the fluid and test it so testing of the fluid from [42:39] the lungs it's you there's nothing to test for what you're going to look for is the pulmonary edema or [42:45] fluid in the lungs you're going to try and differentiate a drug overdose and from drowning [42:50] with a toxicologic study which is what they're doing and that can take up to six to eight weeks [42:55] drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion because it can mimic so many other things including a drug overdose [43:03] you want to rule those things out before you determine cause and manner of death and that's [43:09] probably what they're doing they're making sure he didn't overdose before they make the decision that [43:13] he drowned now the second autopsy being done that's just the family obviously has no confidence in the [43:20] local medical examiner slash corner system and they've sent it to an independent person to do a second [43:26] autopsy not uncommon especially in cases that are more high profile or there's some sort of dispute [43:34] and they send it to an independent person to do a second autopsy to see what they can find and it from [43:39] my knowledge the information on that still isn't out yet so they're also probably trying to find out what [43:45] the toxicologic studies are going to show before they make a decision so right now we're kind of pending [43:51] on what drugs he has on board before they make a make a cause manner of death statement dr kendall crowns [43:58] i understand and i also understand your explanation regarding the potential drowning fluid in the lungs [44:11] as opposed to or compared to the fluid in the lungs if there had been an overdose if he's found right [44:20] there face down it looked to me like in the surf not out in the water floating but up on the beach so [44:32] even if that was the least of it the water still would have gone into his nose and mouth if he were [44:40] alive he could have inhaled it or ingested it even if a drug overdose was the true cod which would require [44:50] i guess what dr crowns a dual finding um drowning and od and i'll just state for the record let it be [45:01] noted in the record that i have never performed an autopsy but i'm glad you pointed that out so [45:08] what about the fluid in the lungs if there had been an od and by the way there is no suggestion that [45:15] drugs were used that day none whatsoever but that said you're saying that there would be no difference [45:24] in the fluid found in his lungs so with a drowning you're you're going into heart failure at some [45:32] point from the anoxia created or the lack of oxygen to the brain created by the drowning because there's [45:39] no air and water and that causes your body to shut down which causes fluid to back up and causes [45:46] pulmonary edema or swelling of the lungs the same process happens in a drug overdose but when you're [45:52] drowning and you're inhaling that water you get some water in your in your lungs as well but you're [45:59] also swallowing and gulping it throwing back up and then swallowing and gulping it again so you'll have [46:04] water in your stomach that you can look for in a drowning not always and sometimes you'll get [46:10] water in a area in your sinus cavity called the sphenoid sinus as well but the pulmonary edema created by [46:18] drowning looks exactly like the pulmonary edema created by a drug overdose so you can't really [46:25] differentiate the two of those and that's why the drug testing is so important and yes you are correct [46:31] if drugs come back on board like let's just say fentanyl it would be part one drowning part two fentanyl [46:39] toxicity and then manner would be accident so it it it's going to be a drowning no matter what but is [46:46] there going to be a toxicology component added on and that's probably what they're working on as we [46:51] speak you're on cross-examination who is our next sponsor well here is a probative clue meow 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think you know anything regarding nolan's death please dial 228-769-3063 we remember american hero [48:42] deputy sheriff adam heitman creek county sheriff soklahoma passed away in the line of duty after six [48:49] years leaving behind a grieving wife samantha and two little girls olivia and chloe american hero deputy [48:57] sheriff adam heitman thank you to our guests but especially to you for being with us nancy grace [49:03] signing off for tonight but i'll see you tomorrow night and until then good night friend hi guys please [49:14] join us on our mission to find missing people especially children to solve unsolved homicides [49:21] and if you're on the go please join us on your favorite podcast app where you can get all our content [49:28] where we in our way where we in our way where we in our way where we in our way seek justice