NOLAN WELLS AUTOPSY FUROR AS FBI SWOOPS IN

[0:00] Bombshell tonight. The Nolan Wells Autopsy Fuhrer. This is as the FBI swoops in. Good evening. I'm [0:10] Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. I find it very difficult to [0:22] believe that not one, but two medical examiners cannot figure out why he had deep red subcutaneous [0:34] markings. Preliminary findings, and this is significant. Focal area of red discoloration [0:48] in the soft tissue of the back of the head, the occipital region. He said the ideology is unknown [0:58] at this time. He said the body was received after the initial autopsy. He said the body had marked [1:08] decompensation. Another limitation faced by this forensic pathologist was the absence of the [1:18] anterior internal neck structures. The trachea and the laryngeal cartilage, the thyroid horn, [1:29] and the hyoid bone were not received with the body. So he said that the throat was not received [1:44] with the body when he got Nolan Wells' body in Washington, D.C. to perform the second autopsy. [1:54] The only question that we have is what happened to our son. That is the only question. We have [2:03] consistently been degraded by the public. There's been questions about our parenting, our GoFundMe, [2:12] this, that, and other. I've been called a racist. I am a health care provider, and I take my job very [2:19] seriously. I love everyone. And it's just, it's been difficult for us, but we are leaning into our [2:31] faith, leaning into one another, also leaning into all of you. [2:36] You are seeing family attorney Ben Crump followed by Nolan Wells' mother speaking. Dear Lord in heaven, [2:45] what is wrong with people? If this were your child, wouldn't you want to know what happened? [2:52] He goes out with friends. They all come back. He's dead. I don't understand the hate directed [3:02] toward Nolan's family and to everyone looking for answers. At this hour, I don't think anyone is [3:10] guilty, but I do know that there is a conflict, a conflict in the stories, and we are not stopping [3:21] until we know what happened to Nolan Wells. So you can send all the hate and vitriol you want. [3:30] Have at it. That from our friends over at NAACP. Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan. We got an [3:40] all-star panel lined up to analyze what's happening at this hour as we are learning the FBI has swooped [3:46] into this investigation. And that is not disparaging local law enforcement, although they did apparently [3:53] jump the gun at the get-go and say no foul play suspected. Well, I suspect foul play because I don't [3:58] know any differently. Maybe it will turn out to all be an accident. But as of right now, we need a full [4:05] on investigation. Joe Scott Morgan, before I give your very, very long intro bio, where's the throat? [4:16] I know we have deep red markings on the occipital bone that's in the back of the... Thank you. This is [4:24] directly from the autopsy. We want you to see what the family has seen. Don't you think, [4:32] Joe Scott Morgan, that the second medical examiner might need the throat to figure out what happened? [4:39] I mean, Joe Scott, it's on fire claims that Nolan Wells had been lynched, that he had been strangled, [4:49] asphyxiated. Do I believe a lynching occurred? No, I do not believe that. But I do know I need to see [4:59] the neck. Yeah. And let me tell you where the neck is. It's or the organs of the neck as it's referred [5:08] to. These neck structures are actually being held by the Mississippi State Medical Examiner's Office. [5:14] And they don't just arbitrarily hold things like this, Nancy. This is something that would commonly go [5:19] with the body when the body is released. So I deduce the fact that they have seen something there [5:25] that they're trying to hold on to from an evidentiary value. Remember, the state still has [5:30] an ongoing investigation in this case. And they see evidentiary value in this. And yes, I know that [5:36] the second autopsy pro-sector up in D.C. would have liked to have seen this, but he understands this, [5:44] why they would retain it. And it is being retained. I can promise you that, [5:48] as are other tissue samples. But the problem is, is that when you get into these structures in the [5:56] neck, one of the things you're trying to assess is, was this a drowning? Also, is there any kind of [6:01] trauma? If people will just put their hands right here in the middle line of your neck, you'll feel [6:05] that kind of cartilaginous body there, this cartilage, right? That can be fracture. Need I remind [6:11] you Epstein, right? So you have to examine this. Also, here's our word, Nancy. They're talking about [6:18] the hyoid is missing as well. So they don't have that. [6:23] Show me, Joe Scott Morgan, because show me, Joe Scott. You and I, hyoid, we know what it is because [6:30] you and I have handled a ton of asphyxiation, ligature, manuals, triangulations, you name it. [6:35] Hyoid, explain. So delicate. Yeah. And it's very, very far up the neck, Nancy. And one of the things [6:42] that happens is that with the hyoid, it's generally only traumatized as a result of direct pressure [6:49] that's generally applied by a throttling event or a C-clamp like this, throttling meaning like this. [6:56] So manual strangulation. And an outlier here is ligature strangulation, but primarily hands-on. So [7:03] they're looking for little fractures in here all along the way. So that has to be dissected [7:09] along with these other, there's a couple of other structures that you look at as well. [7:14] They've held onto this for some reason. I don't have the answer for that, [7:17] but I can tell you it's being preserved. I don't know if they're getting further consultation on their [7:22] end. That is the state. And I'm sure that- Stop, stop, stop. Joe Scott, you're giving me so much [7:32] information. Let me tell everybody, if they don't know who you are, why you're here tonight. Okay. [7:41] Joe Scott Morgan is a death investigator. He has investigated over 10,000 death scenes of all [7:47] nature. You've only got a few choices. You've got homicide, suicide, accident, natural causes like [7:53] a heart attack, and unexplained. Tonight, we've got two unexplained medical examiner's reports. [7:59] Yeah. Why? We don't have the lungs in a potential drowning case. Why? We don't have the neck in a [8:07] potentially, as you said, throttling case. Why? Those are the two main things I want to see. [8:15] Joe Scott Morgan, professor, forensics, Jacksonville State University, with a world-class criminal [8:21] procedure department. I've toured it myself. He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, [8:28] and he is a star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, and so much more, but that would [8:34] take the whole program. Joe Scott, really? With allegations floating, very incendiary allegations [8:44] of lynchings, of throttlings, of ligatures. The main thing I want to see, the lungs and the neck, [8:51] and they're both missing. I have a problem. [8:56] Well, I don't know that the lungs are necessarily missing. Let me tell you how this works. [9:00] They have done sections of the lungs at the ME's office in Mississippi. Now, the one thing that is [9:07] included in this report relative to the second autopsy that's been released is that the doctor [9:14] here, who is a fantastic doctor, highly credentialed, knows what he is doing, former chief medical [9:21] examiner for DC, he is stating that he has taken tissue samples. He repeats this over and over again [9:29] in the report. He submitted this for his own histology. Why is that important? Well, if you [9:34] get into the lungs, that lung tissue, and he can identify it, even in it, I'm going to be real [9:39] graphic here, it arrived in a bag, okay? So he would have to pick through this, find lung tissue in there, [9:45] and then sample that, and he's going to be looking microscopically for signs of drowning there, [9:50] and he'll make his own assessment. One of the things I'm concerned about, Nancy, and I hope that [9:56] they did this down in Mississippi, is that when they do this initial examination, did they do [10:03] diatom testing, which is you're looking for these little bits of algae that are distinct to both [10:09] freshwater and saltwater? And if you find that within the system, that's also an indication [10:14] that the individual may have been submerged and taken on water. So right now, we've got a lot of [10:20] questions, but as the second doctor says, this is all still pending investigation. I'm trying to digest [10:28] and make sense of everything Joe Scott Morgan just told me, but what I know is that I don't have the [10:35] lungs and a potential drowning, and I don't have the neck and a potential throttling, as he called it. [10:42] And again, Joe Scott, we don't have evidence of any strangulation, be it manual or ligature, [10:49] except that deep red discoloration. And I read in the autopsy report, it was about 12 by 8. How can that [11:03] be? Explain to me what they're talking about. Yeah. Can we please put that drawing up that the doc [11:09] rendered there? You know, something interesting about that mark, Nancy, this thing has got kind [11:16] of, as he has drawn it out here, that red indication that he's done with a pen on this anatomical diagram, [11:22] Nancy, that's got what is referred to as kind of specific margins, doesn't it? It almost appears as [11:28] though there is a pattern there. And it extends, if folks at home will take their hand and put it on [11:33] that kind of bony prominence in the back of your head, that's called your occiput, okay? That's [11:37] where the occipital bone is. So it looks like it's just beneath there. So right along that edge, this [11:44] thing's got margins. It almost looks like it could potentially have a pattern, hard to say, but do you [11:50] see how he has it drawn out there? It's almost like a rectangular shape. When you talk about decomposition, [11:55] which he does extensively here, and he says he can't make a full assessment because of the status [12:00] of the decomposition, decomposition is what's called diffuse. That means it kind of spreads out [12:05] randomly. What he has drawn there, at least from his estimation there, or his rendering that he's [12:13] done there, puts margins on this thing. You've got a top end, a bottom end, and you've got sides. [12:20] Okay. You know, all that said, what does it mean? Because to me, Dr. Kendall Crowns, who I respect [12:27] deeply, by the way, suggested it was blood pooling, I'm not buying that because it's nowhere else. We [12:35] don't see that anywhere else on the body. Hey, Caitlin Becker joining me, senior national [12:40] correspondent, New York Post. She is a star of New York Postcast, like podcast, but postcast. [12:47] Caitlin, thanks for being with us tonight. Caitlin, I had it out with Dr. Kendall Crowns yesterday. He [12:52] has superior knowledge, so I was at a disadvantage, but I'm still sticking to my guns. I don't see how [12:57] the blood in his body can pool in one location on the whole back of his body, even if he's laying [13:07] on his back. Hold, hold, hold. Brian Trasher, Vice President, United Cajun Navy. Brian, isn't it true [13:16] that when Nolan was found, he was face down, repeat, face down on the beach, just at the water's edge. [13:25] And let's see the aerial video when I'm talking to Brian so everybody can see what he's talking [13:30] about. Go ahead, Brian. Yes, ma'am. He was face down on the beach right at the water's edge. I'm [13:37] not sure if he was spotted still floating and they brought him in or if he washed up right there, [13:43] but I can only describe where I saw him as we flew over the island. Brian Trasher, based on the photo [13:49] that I received from an undisclosed source, he was face down, almost as if he were asleep with one leg [13:58] slightly out to the side. Okay, face down. Do you agree with that, Brian? Yes, ma'am. That's correct. [14:07] Okay, back to Caitlin Becker, senior national correspondent, New York Post, star of New York [14:14] Postcast. Caitlin, what can you tell me about claims that his body was sent to the second autopsy, [14:26] the independent autopsy face down? There seems to be a lot of questions about how Nolan's body was [14:36] received, found, sent. If he was sent face down, that also doesn't make sense to me for the claim [14:43] that it would be blood pooling in the back of his head because if he's face down, wouldn't blood pool [14:48] just by nature of gravity this way, if he was found face down? It just doesn't make a lot of sense. [14:54] But as I was listening to you and Joseph Scott Morgan talk, I mean, I don't know the terrain here, [14:59] but if they're keeping the throat for a potential throttling and you see this mark on the back of [15:04] the head, if you're thinking in terms of someone's head pressed up against it, if there's something [15:09] behind my head and you're pressing me this way, but by not knowing the manner or cause of death, [15:14] we're kind of jumping to a conclusion there. So it just, it just seems like every single layer, [15:20] there is more questions than answers. And the mark on the back of the head and not seeing in [15:25] the autopsy report that there were really marks or signs of trauma anywhere else was really [15:30] particularly curious. I mean, why just there? What caused it? And we don't really have those [15:36] answers about whether or not there was significant trauma to the flip of that, to the front, because [15:41] as you said, wrote, wasn't sent for the second autopsy. So back to you, Joe Scott Morgan, [15:46] I'm going to bring in the rest of the panel in just one moment. Joe Scott, how could the deep [15:53] reddened markings at the back of the back of the head, the occipital, how could that come from [16:01] the blood sinking down post-mortem? It just, first he was face down. So it's not, it would sink to the, [16:10] the blood would go to his face. That was the low, it would be the lowest point. But after that, [16:16] after he's dead for a period of days, I don't see how the blood could then continue to pull in a [16:21] different direction. And we are getting reports that he was sent to the, exactly to the second [16:27] autopsy face down. I find that hard to believe, but that's according to reports. Yeah. And so [16:36] understand this, with, with decomposition, okay, it's, like I said, it's going to be diffuse. And [16:44] this second autopsy, I don't know if people are aware of this, but you can read through the report [16:49] itself. And it's very, let's see, it's very, very graphic in the sense that this doctor that did the, [16:58] that did this case, that did the follow-up, he did such an extensive dissection here. I'm talking [17:06] about stuff that we don't normally do at autopsy. He's done the back, he's done the buttocks, he's [17:14] done the backs of the legs, the arms, the hands, even the back of the head. He went, he took this [17:19] even further than the people in Mississippi did. And this is something that we normally do. So folks [17:26] understand, this is something we normally do with an in-custody death, all right, with, where, [17:32] where it is this extensive. And he, he doesn't see anything from a hemorrhagic standpoint, like [17:38] direct trauma. The big question is this pattern on the back of his head. And I'm calling it a pattern [17:43] because of the way he's demonstrated this with his diagram on the back of this thing. And he doesn't [17:50] go into great detail about that in the autopsy report. So how did it get there? What I want to know [17:55] is all these witnesses are right there. Brian Trasher don't, like planes, have a tail number. [18:05] Can't you identify who these boats are by their markings, by their numbers, by their identification? [18:13] They've got names written on the side. They've got tail numbers, so to speak. Have all of these people [18:18] been brought in? I mean, tell me how to identify a boat and how to locate the driver and bring them [18:26] in for questioning about what happened that day. Because listen, Brian, the friends say we left him [18:33] with Katie. Katie apparently has been found and says, no, he left with his friends. Okay, right there. [18:40] I've got a problem. How did everybody leave Gilligan on the island waving, hey, I'm here, and they all [18:50] left him? I find that hard to believe. I've got to find out what precipitated him going into the water [18:58] and how that fits in with the marking on the back of his neck. Do you see where I'm going, Trasher? [19:05] Absolutely. And yes, to answer your first question, some of these boats, just by the names, [19:10] people that name the boats, and if you can detect registration numbers, if it's registered in the [19:16] state of Mississippi, that's easy to find. I'm told that over 60 people have been interviewed by law [19:20] enforcement. I don't know who they are or how they were brought in, but there was a lot of interviews [19:24] that have been conducted, and I'm assuming there's going to be more. Yeah, with regards to what [19:29] happened, that's always been the question. That's why his parents want to know. There's just absolute [19:35] black hole from about 4.30 p.m. on July 4th until he washed up Monday morning, where nobody seems to [19:40] know anything. Nobody seems to have seen anything. There's conflicting stories, as you pointed out, [19:45] from his friends and people that saw him that day about who he was supposed to leave with, [19:50] did he want to stay back, all that. It's all hearsay. It's all secondhand. And so, yeah, [19:55] there is a massive hole in the story, and that's why this has gotten national attention that it's [20:02] gotten. As far as the markings on his head, I mean, I was told by some of the people who recovered the [20:08] body that it was obviously come in contact with marine life while he was in the water. I'm not sure [20:13] if that's possible explanation of those markings. I'm just telling you what I thought, so experts can [20:19] weigh in on it. Okay, Brian, Brian, hold on. Joe Scott, I'm going to try to get a quick answer from [20:25] you on that, because it's valid. What Trasher just said is valid, because if there were, if his body [20:33] had been attacked by marine life, you know, fish, turtles, whatever, that would be all over the body. What [20:39] we're talking about is deep reddening of tissue, subcutaneous tissue on the back of the head, [20:44] unlike the rest of the body. So that is not the same as the decomp on the rest of the body. [20:51] I mean, why is it so hard for everybody to get? We've got a problem with the back of the head. [20:59] It's marked unlike any other part of his body. And you said something very significant, [21:05] Joe Scott Morgan, that the original medical examiner kept the throat for a reason. Did he, [21:12] she keep the hand, the fingers, the toes? No, because they weren't probative. They didn't prove [21:18] anything. The neck proved something. What? What did the neck prove? That's where I'm going. Help me. [21:25] Yeah, well, either to include or exclude any kind of trauma that could have impeded his ability to [21:30] breathe. There's another part to this, Nancy, that I forgot to mention relative to the neck. [21:36] We have what are called strap muscles that kind of lay over the center part of the neck. What do we [21:42] look for there? Well, that's also where we see hemorrhage relative to any kind of pressure that's [21:48] applied there. You'll see those. The doctor doesn't mention anything about strap muscles, [21:52] because I think that those were probably retained as well. Now, back to the sea life. I'm from [21:57] Louisiana. I can tell you what type of sea life would have affected his body. And if the body was [22:03] right there on the shore, it would be crabs. And the reason I know that is because this is where [22:09] they kind of feed, if you will. All right. So you don't hear any mention by the second medical [22:17] examiner talking about any kind of degrading of the body as a result of contact with marine life [22:22] that's feasting in a post-bortem state. Hi, guys. Nancy Grace here. If you are a homeowner, [22:31] you've probably thought, should I call American Financing to refinance and pay off this debt? [22:37] But you don't because of your low mortgage rate. That low rate, it's not saving you if you're [22:45] drowning in credit card interest. People are calling American Financing, and American Financing [22:52] is saving customers an average of $800. That's not an all. That's a month by using their equity to pay [23:01] off the credit card debt. Using their home equity to pay off credit card debt. No upfront fees. It [23:09] costs you nothing to find out what you could be saving. And if you start today, you may be able to [23:16] delay two mortgage payments. American Financing, 866-888-0344. Repeat, 866-888-0344. Or just go online to [23:32] americanfinancing.net slash Nancy. Disclaimer, NMLS, 1823-34, NMLSConsumerAccess.org, APR for rates, [23:46] and the 5S start at 6.327% for well-qualified borrowers. Call 866-888-0344 for details about credit [23:59] costs and terms. Go to HTTP colon, hashtag, hashtag, www.americanfinancing.net slash Nancy. Average [24:14] savings are based on borrowers who save over $199.99. And good luck. We had roughly 20 to 30 [24:29] people coming on three separate boats with us. And so we were all following each other out there [24:35] as one big group. You know, it wasn't just me and Nolan and a couple of my buddies. There was [24:40] 20 or 30 people spread out where we all met at the dock before and then we departed to go to Horn [24:46] Island. It wasn't just a couple of us. I mean, we were, there were so many people we had to split up [24:50] between three boats and we all left and all got there at the same time. That is from our friends [24:56] over at the Officer Tatum show. And that is Warren Hudson's an acquaintance of Nolan Wells. He was in [25:03] the Horn Island group. Are you hearing what I'm hearing, Josh Colesrud? I mean, I don't know if [25:08] this happened to you in law school, but it makes you think differently out of that whole thing. I heard [25:13] this 20 to 30 witnesses, 20 to 30 witnesses, Josh Colesrud, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense [25:21] attorney, former assistant U.S. attorney, founder Colesrud Law Offices and star a podcast, [25:28] no contest at ColesrudLawOffices.com. 20, 30 witnesses. That's what I just heard. [25:36] Absolutely. You know, this is going to be a huge investigation. It already is. You know, [25:42] one of the questions that I've seen online about the friends is that, you know, why did they leave him? [25:50] Um, and, but let me ask you something hard. You know, those that are saying that, you know, [25:54] look, we're talking about, you know, we're, we're not talking about hardened men. These are teenagers. [25:59] They're kids. They're 18, 19 years old on the water on the 4th of July. And you know, what happens when [26:06] a teenager experiences something traumatic, you know, they freeze, they panic, they go numb. Uh, [26:13] sometimes they cry, sometimes they don't. Uh, but you know what, they're not, they're not experts at like [26:19] dredging the, the waterways. And, you know, I know that the family wants answers from the friends, [26:26] you know, and I get that. Uh, and you know, one of the, the family members said, you know, [26:31] are they getting their lies straight? Uh, when they went back to the, the mainland and, and called for [26:38] a cab, but you know, we don't know what happened yet. And one of the things that I'm really looking [26:43] forward to seeing is the data from the cell phones, right? Because that'll tell us exactly [26:49] where everybody was at what point in time, uh, and including hopefully the victim. Uh, now, [26:57] you know, that's another question, you know, how did they, uh, obtain the victim's phone? Well, [27:01] it was in one of the hands of his friends. So how did that come there? Uh, so there are a lot of [27:06] answers. Uh, there's a lot of questions here, Nancy, that we need answers to, uh, and right now, [27:11] we don't know if it was an accident. We don't know if it was a death. Uh, we just don't know. [27:15] Caitlin Becker, who called who that night? Did mom call the friends? Did the friends call the mom? [27:24] How did mom end up looking for Nolan? It seems like mom was on the, the case pretty immediately [27:34] when Nolan didn't, she had him on life 360. So I think that became the biggest kind of issue of [27:40] where's my son, where's his phone. And the only thing she could go off of is where's his phone, [27:46] which she could locate through kind of life 360 where it was pinged. So it seemed like [27:50] she was on the hunt for the phone there. And from all of the accounts that we've been reporting on, [27:57] the phones were left in the boat because they didn't take them to the shore. However, you can see [28:01] all of those people were back and forth on the boat. So clearly they were using them, [28:06] but the phone was on the boat that went back without Nolan first. So it seems that the friends [28:13] took the phone with them to their house. And then that is what happened with it between then and when [28:19] his mom got it seemed to be the question of where it was and who was touching it, who was using it, [28:26] what was done on it. But it seems like the location on the life 360 is how mom tracked down [28:33] the phone when she realized that her son wasn't where he needed to be. [28:39] So that night, Nolan doesn't come home. Mom, Christine, starts looking for him. She is a [28:47] family nurse practitioner. She starts looking for him. She looks on Life 360 and follows it. [28:56] You can get that on Life 360. Show me the route to the phone. And she did that to the friend's house [29:03] that had all been out to Horn Island. And she's like, and she goes, where's Nolan? His phone's [29:14] here, but he's not here. And they go, yeah, it's out there in the truck. So they wait 15 minutes to [29:20] go get the phone and come back with it. Everybody's just sitting there in the dark watching TV. [29:26] Nobody said, hey, where's Nolan? Nobody said that until she came over looking for the phone. [29:32] Which could kind of point to, if I'm hearing it, it could kind of point to two things. I knew there [29:39] was a plenty, there's a huge faction online saying, what are they doing? What are they covering up? [29:43] What are they hiding? But then on the flip of that, just to play devil's advocate, if you don't think [29:47] there's anything wrong with your friend, if you assumed your pal was in another boat with another [29:51] group of friends, why would you even think to be concerned about that until his mom comes knocking [29:55] at the door and says, where's my son? So I mean, like the teen behavior, it reminds me so much of [30:01] the teen or the young people in the Idaho murder, just looking at them to be like, why are they not [30:06] reacting the way you would think someone would react in a situation? And while the circumstances are so [30:12] wildly different, I think we have to remember that we're talking about, you know, teenagers here and [30:17] teenagers who were leaving in a large group who admittedly were drinking, who were partying in three [30:22] separate boats. So I think it might've been easy to lose track of one another. That doesn't explain [30:28] anything though. That doesn't explain why no one, not a one person out of that 20 to 30 said to [30:33] themselves, where the heck is Nolan? I mean, if you and I were out with 20 to 30 of our friends, [30:37] someone at some point probably would have raised, you know, scratched their head and said, where's [30:41] Nancy? Have you heard from Nancy all day? If it had gone to that point of the night. [30:45] I assume his phone had a password. There are certain things that you need the password to do, [30:50] such as delete activity. But if you don't have a password and you pick up your phone, [30:55] if you're touching the screen, that leaves a trace. If you're trying to power it off, [30:59] that leaves a trace. So we should be able to see people without a password trying to [31:04] actively interact with that phone as well as someone that has it. So we would do a forensic [31:09] acquisition and that's really important here. Someone just looking in the phone, you can get a [31:13] glimpse, but you can't see what's deleted and hiding below the surface. We need a forensic acquisition [31:18] to do that. We can tell if it was just soft deleted. So like sitting in a trash can or a hard [31:24] delete. So if you empty your trash on your phone and then you go and throw it into a dumpster [31:28] and the trash is taken away, there is a log that tracks everything. Also with timestamps on when that [31:35] activity occurred. If you get a full file system acquisition, and I realize that's really nerdy, [31:40] but this is where acquisition and time to evidence matters. Deleted data exists and sits there [31:46] for a period of time. So time to evidence is everything here. Apple's more forgiving and [31:52] you have about 30 days. With Android, you could have just a few days until location artifacts are purged. [31:57] Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Please join us on Crime Stories and stream [32:04] it first on Fox One. When breaking crime news develops, we investigate it and bring it to [32:10] you. Bombshell updates, answers to unanswered questions from cases making the headlines and [32:17] cases you may never have heard of until Crime Stories. We go inside investigations with exclusive [32:25] interviews, crime victims, families seeking justice, investigators, experts and sources [32:31] from within the case itself. Stay on top of the nation's biggest trials with us, including [32:38] gavel to gavel coverage with real time analysis. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Stream it first [32:46] on Fox One. I hope to see you there. And thank you, friend. [32:52] To Dave Mack, I want to, before we launch into the phone tracking and the phone investigation, [32:58] I want to clarify something. I understood that Warren Hudson, one of Nolan's friends, [33:08] called the mom around 11.07 telling her Nolan was missing. Now, which is it? Did the mom call the [33:17] friends or follow the Life360 or did the friend Warren Hudson call the mom? [33:23] Christine Wansley, Nolan's mother, says she received a phone call from Warren Hudson. Now, [33:31] she identified him by first name during one of the press conferences and interviews, okay? [33:37] Now, she has not disclosed what the entire details of that call were, but we know that right after that [33:45] conversation from Warren calling Christine, that Christine contacted a friend who had two sons who had [33:52] also been with Nolan to ask if they had seen him. It was after that call that the family began [33:59] checking Nolan's location through Life360 and Snapchat. And that's where we end up with the [34:04] discrepancy of locations. [34:06] We also learned tonight the FBI has been called in. Anything? Okay. Are y'all, [34:15] can I confirm that y'all are working with the FBI with the case? Yes. Okay. Any other agencies that [34:20] you're working with at this time? All right. And is this case still under investigation? [34:24] It is actively under investigation. Okay. So I was told by the district attorney, [34:28] everything is going through her office at this time. [34:30] And everything else should be referenced to the district attorney's office. Okay. [34:34] You know, Caitlin Becker joining me, senior national correspondent, New York Post, [34:38] I just learned two very important things. Number one, the FBI is involved. Why? And number two, [34:45] at the outset, I understand that local law enforcement first said that no foul play is suspected. [34:53] It was a simple drowning if there is such a thing. But now the FBI is in and everything's being [35:01] referred to the district attorney. Is that correct? [35:07] From what we understand, our reporting says the exact same thing, that the district attorney [35:11] is dealing with everything. This is going to go to a grand jury, which we understand is very typical, [35:17] especially in this area. I think it's typical pretty much everywhere. If you have a suspicious, [35:21] unnatural death, that something would go to a grand jury. The local police do seem like they may have [35:26] jumped the gun in calling this a simple drowning with however exactly that they worded it, [35:32] you know, just a drowning with no foul play suspected. That doesn't say there was no foul [35:35] play at all, or there couldn't be, or they're not investigating. But to just write this off as [35:40] no foul play suspected off the bat, I think got everyone's kind of hackles up. And I think that's [35:46] particularly something that the family didn't want to hear. You have a strong swimmer, young guy, [35:53] athletic person who went out, didn't come home, and no one had saw him struggling. You didn't see him [35:59] go in the water and struggle. That's a simple drowning. We saw someone go in, we tried to help, [36:04] they drowned. That to me is a case closed, simple drowning. But now the feds are involved and the [36:09] FBI is involved, perhaps because there is more to it than it seems. [36:14] Right. Josh Colesford, I got a question for you. The FBI is now part of this investigation. [36:21] That is significant. The FBI is only brought in under certain circumstances. That is within the [36:29] state jurisdiction. And this thing has mushroomed from no foul play suspected to the DA is handling [36:37] all of this. And I'd like to point out that the sheriff was not responding. Well, guess what, [36:45] everybody? When I would be besieged by reporters when I was prosecuting case, [36:50] you're not at liberty to comment on an ongoing investigation as much as we on the outside [36:56] looking in feel stymied. I'm surprised the law enforcement officer even stopped to talk to the [37:03] journalist WDSU because they shouldn't be revealing evidence. So don't make it look like he's hiding in [37:13] his office. He should not be revealing evidence. That said, address. This is now at the district [37:21] attorney level. And the FBI is in. That's what I need you for, Colesrood. [37:26] Yeah. So great question. So let's separate the two. The district attorney works for the state. The [37:32] FBI works for the U.S. attorney's office. Now, just because there's a homicide does not make this [37:38] a federal case. So ask yourselves, why would the FBI be here? Well, there's two possible reasons. [37:43] Number one, we know that the family has hired a very prominent civil rights attorney, and there might [37:50] be a civil rights component here. And civil rights always includes the federal government. So if, for [37:58] example, there is an allegation that the local law enforcement didn't do something, or there's a racial [38:04] component to them not doing something, that, of course, can bring in the U.S. attorney's office. [38:10] The second reason the FBI could be brought in is that this small town just can't, needs, needs help [38:18] with its resources, right? They don't have the manpower for this type of investigation. And we've [38:23] already seen that they've had a couple of missteps with the media, like you just said, where they want [38:28] to be closed lips, lipped with the investigation without giving some type of... [38:33] Just missteps with the media. They said this was a natural causes, accident, no foul play. That's [38:47] more than a misstep. That's a COD, cause of death, manner of death, okay? The FBI has been brought [38:55] in to work with law enforcement. And you know what, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining me, renowned [39:01] psychoanalyst out of L.A. She's an author. She's on Bravo. She's on Peacock, star of a new [39:07] hit podcast, on the couch with Dr. Bethany Marshall. You know, I don't like the way Coles [39:12] Rue just said that. They're from a small town. They need help. Well, you know what? Not every [39:18] jurisdiction is New York, L.A., Houston, Atlanta. They don't have this type of investigation all [39:26] the time. So, I commend them for bringing in the FBI, okay? That said, Dr. Bethany, I want [39:37] to find out if every single person has been brought in and questioned separately. I want [39:43] to hear your take on what you're seeing. [39:48] Hey, Nancy, in terms of Coles Rue, he gets paid a lot of money to muddy the waters, so at [39:53] least he's doing his job. There's very important behavioral evidence that is not [39:59] being discussed. I don't hear it online, in any news reports, and that is, is there empathy [40:04] for the victim? In a forensic interview, that's one of the number one things we look for is [40:11] like, oh my God, where did he go? Somehow we lost sight of him. In the online chatter, there's [40:17] a lot of digital evidence here. Are the kids communicating back and forth saying, I don't [40:23] know, did we lose him? What happened? He was my best friend. I can't sleep. You know, that [40:31] is what we want to look for in terms of innocence. In terms of guilt, what we would look for is [40:38] lack of empathy towards the victim. Like, ah, he was always drinking too much. It's his fault [40:44] he didn't get on the boat. We never liked him anyway. Attempts to rationalize, attempts to [40:52] form a cohesive story amongst co-conspirators. That is going to come out in the digital evidence [41:00] because at this point, I'm sure the investigators have separated every possible perpetrator. [41:09] Joe Scott, also missing in addition to the neck are the lungs. Don't you think that would be an [41:14] important aspect of a potential drowning case? Yeah, yeah, it is. And just so that we understand, [41:21] those lungs have been dissected. So there was an organ bag that came with the body to DC. The [41:28] attending that the family retained actually did histosamples from all of the tissues there. He [41:35] even states that in his report. Now, I think that what he is saying and what you have to understand, [41:42] there's no way after following an autopsy, an initial autopsy, that you can see the lungs intact. [41:48] They have to be dissected. They've been previously dissected. Those lungs probably accompanied the [41:55] body in that back, unless of course, they've retained the lungs as well. And that remains to be seen at [42:01] this point. Dave Mack joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Can you shed any light [42:05] on it, Dave? What we're seeing is that Dr. Roger Mitchell, who was the independent pathologist doing [42:12] the second autopsy on Nolan, reported that he did not have access to the lungs or airway structures [42:20] when conducting the family requested independent autopsy. The lungs, the neck, very disturbing. [42:28] They are critical. They've got to be analyzed by the independent medical examiner. And that's not [42:34] saying the first medical examiner was wrong. But that's going to hold the key to the cause and [42:41] manner of death, I believe. And back to you, Brian Trasher, what can you tell me about an offer to the [42:49] family regarding cadaver dogs? Yeah. So, you know, obviously the online chatter started right away. [42:57] People were coming up with all kind of bizarre theories about how he was, you know, he came back [43:01] to the island. They took them back out there and dumped them all this kind of stuff. So we just said, [43:05] hey, one of our top, you know, canine teams happens to be in Jackson, uh, in, uh, Jackson County, [43:10] Mississippi, Jackson County canine is their name. I said, we'll be happy to have these cadaver dogs go [43:15] over and inspect the boat. And, uh, we told this to Crump's legal team. And so we'll, we'll have them [43:20] go inspect the boat and they'll be able to tell if there's decomp on that boat. And they said, oh, well, [43:24] we heard they cleaned the boat. I said, no, there's only one chemical that you could, you could possibly get [43:29] rid of decomp with. And I guarantee these people don't know what it is. Um, so there's no way they, [43:33] they could be a month later. These dogs would be able to smell the decomp. And they would also have [43:37] Nolan sent if he was actually, he was on the boat alive, but they would also know if there was a dead [43:41] body on that boat and they declined. They said, nah, we don't think so. So I'm not, I'm not sure why [43:46] they didn't want to dispel that, uh, right away. We would have known right away if the dead body had been [43:51] on that boat. Okay. Crump, why aren't you allowing the cadaver dog team onto that boat? We need to know. [44:01] You know, Brian Treasurer, you made it sound very mysterious. What is the solution used to get rid [44:08] of human decomposition? I'm not going to say that on the air. It might be somebody watching [44:13] that's trying to hide a dead body as we speak, but people, people do. Are you referring to muriatic [44:17] acid? No, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a specific kind of product that's on the market that is used. [44:25] Matter of fact, some of our team just went through a training in Texas. And one of the things they did [44:29] was show them how to, you know, clean out a, uh, a vehicle or, or something that, that had decomp on [44:34] it with this particular solution. And they would have to take screws off and they would have to be [44:39] very detailed if they were trying to hide something. So there's virtually no way that the dogs would not [44:43] have picked this up. Did they give any explanation as to why they didn't want the cadaver dogs on the [44:48] boat? There could be an explanation. Did they give one? Not to us. They didn't know. We just assume that, [44:55] uh, that it, you know, I, again, I'm speculating, but if we would've known right away that, that there [45:02] was no dead body on that boat, um, it might've defeated some narratives that, that were being [45:06] pushed out there at the time. You're on cross-examination. Who is our next sponsor? Well, [45:15] here is a probative clue. Meow. Smalls makes fresh human grade food designed for cats to thrive. [45:23] While big pet food uses cheap filler, Smalls features 80% animal protein in zero, zero artificial [45:33] junk. 88% of cat parents report better digestion, softer fur, and more energy for their cats to play. [45:43] It's a healthy investment your cat will love. If you want to invest in your cat's health, [45:49] Smalls is giving you 60% off your cat's first order, 60% off plus free shipping and free treats [45:58] for life. When you go to smalls.com slash Nancy, S M A L L S smalls.com slash Nancy, 60% off your [46:08] first order, free shipping and free treats for life. When you head to smalls.com slash Nancy, [46:16] thanks smalls. And thank you from our cat cinnamon. The investigation goes on. And for all of the [46:27] detractors on either side, we're not stopping. So you're wasting your time as the case is being built. [46:37] Remember if you know, or think you know anything regarding this case, please dial 228-769-3063. [46:46] If this were your child, wouldn't you want the answers? Even if it brings down the roof of the [46:58] courthouse, I would. Tonight, we remember an American hero, Sergeant Jeremy Brown, Clark County [47:06] Sheriff's Washington shot in the line of duty, leaving behind wife, Jill and five children. [47:14] American hero, Sergeant Jeremy Brown. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with [47:21] us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, [47:26] good night, friend. [47:32] Hi guys, please join us on our mission to find missing people, especially children to solve [47:39] unsolved homicides. And if you're on the go, please join us on your favorite podcast app, [47:45] where you can get all our content, where we in our way seek justice.