Minnesota U.S. Senate Debate: Peggy Flanagan vs. Michele Tafoya

[0:01] Good afternoon, this is Politics Friday on NPR News. [0:31] I'm Brian Baxt. [0:32] For the next hour, we're going to focus on Minnesota's U.S. Senate race. [0:36] A new senator will emerge from Election Day no matter what because there is no incumbent on the ballot. [0:41] The two major party candidates are here for their first and possibly only one-on-one debate. [0:47] The Democratic Party's nominee is Peggy Flanagan, Minnesota's current lieutenant governor and a former state legislator. [0:53] The Republican nominee is Michelle Tafoya, who made a career in sports broadcasting and is making her first run for public office. [1:00] Welcome to you both. [1:01] Thank you. [1:01] Thanks so much for having us, Brian. [1:02] So the ground rules, they're pretty simple. [1:04] I crafted the questions and neither of you had input or advanced look. [1:08] No timed responses here, but be as succinct as possible so we can get to as many topics as possible. [1:13] I will allow for rebuttal where it's warranted. [1:16] And please do your best to avoid talking over each other to make it easier for people at home to hear what you're trying to say. [1:21] For the radio audience, you can find a live video feed of this debate at mprnews.org or come back later to view that if you missed something. [1:30] So let's get going. [1:31] You all set? [1:31] Yeah, let's go. [1:32] So we're going to spend the time today talking about both domestic and global issues because you'd encounter both as a U.S. senator. [1:39] But we're going to start overseas. [1:41] Michelle Tafoya, in recent days, President Donald Trump has announced a diesel purchase agreement with Russia despite sanctions by the U.S. [1:48] and key allies amid the ongoing war in Ukraine. [1:51] Is that the right action? [1:53] Yeah. [1:53] Thank you for the question. [1:54] Look, this is one of a number of areas where I'm going to disagree with my with the president and my party. [2:01] The analysis I've seen and look, folks are hurting at the gas pump. [2:06] Diesel's around $6.19 a gallon. [2:08] Regular's around $4.30 a gallon. [2:11] That's not easy. [2:12] That hurts. [2:12] So I believe in pulling levers to bring those prices down. [2:17] But I think this is the wrong way to go because the analysis that I've seen shows that this doesn't really impact Minnesotans at the gas pump. [2:25] And it gives Putin a big impact. [2:27] It gives him an advantage. [2:29] And so I think the president missed the mark here. [2:31] Peggy Flanagan, many Americans remain skeptical of U.S. financial and weapons assistance to Ukraine over the four plus years of this war. [2:39] Where do you stand? [2:40] I think Ukraine is our ally and needs to be treated as such. [2:45] But I want to just start, Brian, as you've asked this question about diesel and Russia. [2:51] I know that what we're going to see today is, you know, potentially two versions of Michelle Tafoya, one that asked for and said, I'd be honored to receive the president's endorsement. [3:06] And she received it earlier this week. [3:09] Someone who is running a different campaign, three weeks left to go, trying to reinvent herself versus someone through the Republican primary who sang a very different tune. [3:21] But when we're talking about diesel sales to Russia, Russia is, you know, run by a dictator. [3:28] And this diesel that would come in, it's one day's worth. [3:31] That is absolutely not worth it. [3:34] This president has been cozying up to Vladimir Putin. [3:36] It is wrong. [3:38] And I think we need to make sure that the work that we do on behalf of this country is not done with dictators. [3:45] I guess we're going to get the Trump endorsement question out of the way early. [3:48] Did you want it? [3:49] Do you want it? [3:50] I heard about that. [3:51] Look, my campaign is about including people from all along the political spectrum. [3:57] I invite Trump voters. [3:59] I invite Kamala Harris voters. [4:01] I invite voters across the spectrum, some of me who may have been disenfranchised. [4:06] But I think what this race is really going to come down to is a contrast, a major contrast. [4:12] My opponent, Peggy Flanagan, has been second in command in this state for eight years, drawing a taxpayer-funded paycheck. [4:20] And what do we have to show for that? [4:22] We have massive fraud, historic fraud. [4:25] We have test scores down. [4:26] We have crime spiking. [4:28] We have a massive surplus turned into a deficit. [4:31] That eight years of failure is what we're looking at. [4:33] We will get to some of those topics, but I want to stay on some of these overseas issues. [4:37] Peggy Flanagan, you've called Israel's actions in Gaza a genocide. [4:41] How would you reconfigure the U.S. relationship with that steadfast Middle East ally? [4:45] Well, I want to be very clear that what happened on October 7th, the terrorist attack by Hamas, was horrific. [4:56] And I know the incredible trauma and harm and violence that people experienced. [5:04] I also know that the response from Benjamin Netanyahu's government since that time has been deeply destructive. [5:14] Children who have lost limbs, who have lost their lives, entire neighborhoods destroyed in Gaza. [5:22] It's important to me that we absolutely do everything we can to ensure that if there are American taxpayer dollars that are being sent overseas to Benjamin Netanyahu's government, [5:36] that frankly, there's some pretty stringent regulations. [5:40] But right now, I would not support additional offensive weapons or military aid to Israel under Benjamin Netanyahu. [5:50] I think it is worth us being very clear. [5:54] Of course, we need a two-state solution, and one of those states should absolutely be Israel. [5:59] But we need to have an approach that's a 23-state solution. [6:04] And I am eager to see the results coming out of the Israeli elections at the end of the month. [6:10] But we should not continue to write blank checks to the government of Benjamin Netanyahu. [6:15] Michelle Tafoya, would you push to alter that U.S.-Israel relationship? [6:18] Listen, Israel is our ally. [6:21] Israel is our friend in the region. [6:23] She's calling this a genocide. [6:25] Let me tell you about the many Minnesotan Jews that I've spoken with who absolutely abhor that she has said that, that she has called it a genocide. [6:33] It is not a genocide when you offer medicines to those people and send in life-saving water and food and nutrition to those people, [6:44] when you drop leaflets to let them know what is coming. [6:46] That is not a genocide. [6:48] I know so many Orthodox and everyday Jews who are livid at the word genocide. [6:55] And so I stand with Israel. [6:57] I stand with our Jewish community. [6:59] Peggy Flanagan does not. [7:00] Calling it a genocide is an absolute misrepresentation. [7:03] I want to stay with you. [7:04] Let's talk about the other big war in that region, which is in Iran. [7:08] You initially urged patience and said it would be worth some sacrifice back home. [7:12] Should Minnesotans remain patient? [7:13] And what's your bottom line for an end to it? [7:15] No president of either party should be given a blank check to wage war without the OK of Congress and without the buy-in of the American people. [7:25] And that includes President Trump. [7:27] Now, Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, but this has been going on now seven months, and Minnesotans and Americans writ large are hurting. [7:35] The prices are too high. [7:37] This war does need to end, and it needs to end quickly, but it also needs to end strategically. [7:41] I would like to see the president lay out an exit strategy for the American people to listen to. [7:47] And I would like to say that whatever that exit strategy is, it is strategic and does not allow this thug regime in Iran to hold the world's economy hostage ever again. [7:58] Peggy Flanagan, you were vocally opposed to the war from the outset. [8:01] Did it produce any benefit? [8:03] And what is your bottom line for an exit strategy? [8:04] So I think this is a really important contrast between myself and my opponent. [8:09] Michelle Tafoya supported this war for 216 days until it became politically untenable for her to continue that position. [8:18] She said that she would have voted for $200 billion for this war. [8:22] This has already cost us $40 billion. [8:25] The prediction is $2 to $3 billion a month. [8:28] The cost of diesel prices, I talked to a farmer just the other day, Brian, who it cost him $175 to fill up his Dodge Ram pickup truck. [8:38] This war is costing us financially, but also in lives. [8:44] 21 servicemen and women have lost their life, including a Minnesotan, a mother. [8:50] That's unacceptable. [8:52] We need to hold this president accountable. [8:55] And this is a clear choice between someone who has supported this endless war in Iran versus someone who is on the side of Minnesotans and will do what is right for Minnesotans. [9:06] This war must come to an end. [9:09] My opponent is lying about my stances because she'd like to distract from her own record. [9:13] And I think it's rich that she's talking about farmers and what they need when the Minnesota Farm Bureau endorsed me and not her. [9:20] Let's be very, very clear. [9:21] This war must come to an end. [9:23] It must come to an end quickly. [9:25] There have been some goals that have been achieved, and Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, but we cannot give this president a blank check to continue to conduct this war. [9:33] When I am brought into office and inaugurated in January, I will have classified briefings. [9:40] I will talk to the people on the ground, and I will vote to end the war if it's still going on. [9:43] Well, on the matter of checks, the Pentagon wants $1.5 trillion for its next budget. [9:48] Do you support that funding request, Peggy Flanagan? [9:51] I think we need to make sure that the United States military has what they need. [9:56] But in this moment, I would not support any additional funding to go to this war in Iran. [10:01] I want to be very clear that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon. [10:05] But when Donald Trump, who endorsed my opponent, Michelle Tafoya, earlier this week, pulled out in the first term of the JCPOA, that put us at risk. [10:15] Now there are no inspectors in Iran with regards to, you know, looking for enriched uranium or nuclear weapons. [10:22] This has made the entire region unstable and to try to reinvent herself in the last three weeks of this election because this war is incredibly unpopular. [10:32] Minnesotans are smarter than that. [10:34] Pentagon budget. Would you support that request? [10:36] Look, the largest line in the national budget right now is interest on the $40 trillion debt. [10:43] That is larger than the defense spending in this nation. [10:46] There are a lot of spending issues in Washington we need to focus on, and I will be willing to go to D.C. and reach across the aisle and knock on the 99 doors of every other senator that is there, whether they're Democrat or Republican, and ask how we tackle these tough issues together. [11:03] We got into this mess together. [11:05] We need to get out of this mess together. [11:07] I would challenge my opponent to tell us where and when she has ever parted with her own party, with the far left flank of her party on any issue, and has been willing to reach across the aisle. [11:17] I have one more question on this topic. [11:19] There's a Minnesotan, Pete Hegseth, who is Secretary of Defense, which the administration now calls the Department of War. [11:23] There's an impeachment resolution pending before Congress. [11:26] How do you assess Secretary Hegseth's performance? [11:29] Michelle Tafoya. [11:30] I would tell you this. [11:32] I think the grade is incomplete. [11:35] We have an incomplete grade right now. [11:37] One thing I'm happy to see is that the President of the United States canceled this online viewing of this death penalty case in Texas. [11:45] I'm happy to see that. [11:47] I think the grade is incomplete. [11:49] Peggy Flanagan, Pete Hegseth, your assessment. [11:51] F. [11:52] And frankly, he should be impeached. [11:56] We are in a moment where the fact that Pete Hegseth even suggested that somehow that was an appropriate thing to do, [12:06] when we haven't executed anyone that way since World War II. [12:10] But to be clear, this is a place incomplete. [12:15] I have seen enough. [12:17] And I think the people of Minnesota have seen enough from Pete Hegseth. [12:21] He absolutely should be impeached. [12:23] And when we're talking about, my opponent just brought up the $40 trillion debt. [12:28] To be clear, so much of that is from tax breaks for billionaires who do not need them. [12:38] Donald Trump, who continues to enrich himself and his billionaire besties at the cost of taking health care away. [12:45] Snap from Minnesotans. [12:48] And that is something that, frankly, my opponent cheered on the big, beautiful bill. [12:52] And these are the results. [12:54] We're going to actually transition. [12:55] I do have one retort to this, please. [12:57] We have a $40 trillion debt. [13:00] This is a massive national security issue. [13:02] It is a spending problem. [13:03] Since Ronald Reagan, all of the legislation that has passed in Washington that has led to this debt, since Reagan, 77% of that legislation has been bipartisan. [13:15] Bipartisanship got us into this debt. [13:17] It's going to take bipartisanship to get us out. [13:20] We need to send someone to Washington who is willing to reach across the aisle and work with others. [13:24] That is me. [13:24] Every time we've zeroed out the debt, it has been Democrats. [13:28] So we need to send Democrats to Washington, D.C. [13:31] Peggy Flanagan, you've railed against President Trump's tariffs. [13:33] Are there any he's imposed that you support? [13:36] I mean, I think we are clear here in Minnesota, you know, steel tariffs in particular are important. [13:41] But the tariffs that we see happening right now are killing our industries. [13:48] Soybeans, corn growers are feeling the squeeze. [13:52] We have lost entire markets, potentially for generations. [13:57] I think Congress has to do their job. [13:59] And we need to send people who are going to stand up to this president and realize that, you know, tariffs are under the control of Congress. [14:07] As we see the trade wars and we're picking fights with Canada, we're picking fights with Mexico, we need people who understand that our farmers are feeling the squeeze. [14:19] We need people who understand the cost of living that is skyrocketing for individuals simply because of these tariffs, which let's be real what they are. [14:29] They are a tax on Minnesotans. [14:32] Michelle Tafoya, have the tariffs done more harm or more good? [14:36] You know, Minnesota farmers, again, have asked me to partner with them. [14:40] I've been endorsed by the Minnesota Farm Bureau. [14:42] So I know about the soy and the corn that Peggy is talking about. [14:45] They have partnered with me and I'm proud to have that endorsement. [14:48] Minnesota farmers and innovators and businesses are the best at what they do. [14:53] And when they have access to an even playing field, they absolutely dominate. [14:57] The playing field has not been even. [15:00] And it's been both sides of the aisle, quite frankly, that have led to this. [15:03] So the one side, Peggy's side, has said everything's just fine the way it is. [15:07] And by the way, the other side has said, if we just make all trade open, it'll be fair. [15:13] That has not been the case. [15:15] We brought in China to the WTO, the World Trade Organization. [15:18] And what has happened? [15:19] We brought trade barriers down. [15:21] Other countries raised trade barriers up. [15:23] That has been a disaster. [15:25] What we're asking for is to level the playing field, to bring partners to the table, to say, let's renegotiate this with Canada and with Mexico. [15:33] I wish the president, again, I'll differ with the president, had used a different touch. [15:37] We need those trade partnerships to be working very well and very soon. [15:42] You heard Peggy Flanagan say that Congress should act to reassert its power here on the tariff front. [15:46] Do you believe Congress could repeal those tariffs? [15:48] And would you agree to do it? [15:50] Look, I think that in the short term, you can use a tariff to bring someone to the table. [15:54] We don't want long-term tariffs. [15:56] That's not the goal here. [15:57] That's not the victory. [15:59] Using the tariffs to bring trading partners to the table, to negotiate, is the victory. [16:04] And getting that even playing field for farmers, who, again, and the National Federation of Independent Businesses also endorsed me. [16:10] These people want a level playing field. [16:13] That's what they're asking for. [16:14] They haven't had it. [16:16] Peggy Flanagan would like to just turn the clock back and let everything be like it was. [16:19] We need to level out that playing field and let our businesses and our farmers shine. [16:24] Brief response. [16:25] Brian, so we can talk about, you know, the farmers who support us. [16:29] I've been endorsed by the Minnesota Farmers Union, by the Farmers Union nationally, and I'm really proud of that endorsement. [16:35] But when we talk about leveling the playing field, give me a break, right? [16:39] We know that farmers here have to navigate weather conditions, but they shouldn't also have to navigate the chaos and the cruelty of the Trump administration. [16:50] The tariffs are on, the tariffs are at, the Strait of Hormuz is open, the Strait of Hormuz is closed. [16:55] We can't get fertilizer here. [16:57] We can't get diesel here. [16:58] It is ridiculous to somehow say that the whims of one man are not responsible for this and Congress being unwilling to do their job. [17:08] Donald Trump, who has endorsed Michelle Tafoya, is responsible for this uneven playing field. [17:14] And if you talk to farmers who know that the cost of diesel, I've talked to farmers who are literally leaving crops in the field because they cannot afford the high cost of diesel, which is due to the war in Iran that Michelle Tafoya supported until it was politically inconvenient. [17:32] Michelle Tafoya, another direct way that the federal government can affect household finances is through taxes. [17:38] You mentioned the big, beautiful bill. [17:39] Are there any taxes you would seek to raise or lower and which? [17:43] Look, my opponent here would like to raise taxes across the board. [17:48] I'm going to get to that. [17:49] I think the contrast, though, needs to be pointed out. [17:52] So no tax on tips. [17:54] I'm for that. [17:55] No tax on overtime. [17:56] I'm for that. [17:57] The expanded child tax credit. [17:58] I'm for that. [17:59] No tax on Social Security. [18:01] I'm for that. [18:02] I want to continue to bring taxes down. [18:04] My opponent, on the other hand, thinks the answer to every issue in America is to throw more money at it, raise the taxes to throw more money at it and give more power to government. [18:15] I want to put money back in the pockets of Minnesotans and give them the power over their own lives. [18:21] She would raise taxes across the board. [18:23] She has said she is against all of these things, including the $193 million relief to rural hospitals that has been historic this year. [18:31] She would have voted against it. [18:32] Thank you, Flagon. [18:33] Raise or lower taxes? [18:34] So I want to say a couple of things. [18:36] There are pieces of the big, beautiful bill or the big, ugly bill that I think are important, like no tax on tips. [18:45] As someone who worked as a server to get through college, that's important to me. [18:50] No tax on overtime, no tax. [18:52] Both of those are set to expire, which I think is really interesting in the most Minnesotan way possible because, you know, we need to have those be ongoing. [19:01] I don't support taxing Social Security, but I want to tell you what you didn't hear was that Michelle Tafoya supports the big, beautiful bill and the cuts to Medicaid and to SNAP. [19:14] What this bill has done and will do is that 170,000 Minnesotans are going to lose access to health care. [19:23] It also means that we see rural hospitals and clinics who are being impacted and closing. [19:29] I was in East Grand Forks. [19:30] There's one nursing home in town. [19:33] If these cuts come the way that they are supposed to, this nursing home closes. [19:38] Not only does that mean that the people who receive care there are in trouble. [19:42] It is the folks who care for them, the local businesses who provide goods and services. [19:47] It impacts the local economy. [19:50] This big, beautiful bill under Donald Trump has been absolutely terrible for Minnesota. [19:57] And Michelle Tafoya has cheered it on. [19:59] Listen, it is rich to hear my opponent talk about lost access to programs when under her watch, while she was second in command of this state, Minnesota saw billions and billions and billions of fraud dollars walk out the door to fraudsters. [20:18] While Medicaid was gutted, while feeding our future was gutted, while these programs for autistic kids were gutted. [20:26] And she's talking about access, all of that money left the state of Minnesota. [20:31] This historic fraud happened under her watch. [20:34] And suddenly she's looking out for Medicaid and snap. [20:37] Sell it to someone else, Peggy. [20:38] We are going to get to fraud, in fact, right now. [20:40] The Trump administration has made a fraud a focus and zoomed in on Minnesota. [20:44] Peggy Flanagan, you've described yourself as having worked shoulder to shoulder with Governor Tim Walz. [20:49] And other top officials say you were at briefings when fraud concerns were raised. [20:54] What ownership do you have for the way the administration responded to fraud? [20:58] So I want to be very clear that fraud of any kind is completely unacceptable. [21:03] I know that Minnesota taxpayers are angry and I am angry, too. [21:08] I'm someone who, you know, I'm alive because a lot of those programs. [21:12] The governor said that more should have been done and more should have been done sooner. [21:16] And I agree with him. [21:18] But I supported the independent office of Inspector General. [21:22] I also supported harsher penalties. [21:24] What I also hear Minnesotans asking about is what about Washington? [21:27] Right now, under Donald Trump, we see right out of the gate, he fired 19 inspectors general, whose entire job it is to police fraud and ethics, uphold ethics at the federal level. [21:40] They were responsible in 2024 for clawing back $50 billion in federal taxpayer dollars. [21:48] He also fired or he also pardoned 90 white collar criminals, including one guy who was responsible for $1.3 billion in Medicaid fraud. [21:59] He's enriched himself and his family directly from the Oval Office and meme coins and insider stock trading. [22:06] And in exchange, we saw the full list just recently for his gilded ballroom in the White House that he's giving people sweetheart deals, no bid contracts, pardoning folks. [22:18] But to be clear, the question is nothing to say about that. [22:22] Do you have any ownership over the fraud that occurred over the last two terms of this administration? [22:26] The governor has been very clear that he the buck stops with him. [22:30] He was the one who had oversight here. [22:32] I've led on issues like paid family and medical leave, nation leading child tax credit, making sure that kids get breakfast and lunch at school. [22:41] Those are the things and those are the areas where I took the lead. [22:45] They didn't get lunch from feeding your future. [22:47] Listen, is there a fraud double standard? [22:49] Listen, I am going to Washington to be an equal opportunity pain in the ass to any corrupt career politician. [22:57] I don't care which side of the aisle they're on or what office they hold. [23:00] I note that my opponent here has mentioned Donald Trump's name. [23:05] I don't know how many times I've lost count. [23:07] Peggy, Donald Trump isn't on the ballot. [23:10] You and I are on the ballot. [23:11] And only one of us let nine billion dollars walk out the door to fraud to suggest that we that she somehow is going to be a fraud czar all of a sudden. [23:20] Talk about changing tax when it becomes politically expedient. [23:23] My goodness, she was second in charge in this state. [23:26] And she's just going to point her finger at Governor Tim Walz when she demanded she it be the Walz Flanagan administration when she demanded to be in the room where everything happened. [23:36] But suddenly she has nothing to do with this. [23:39] My goodness. [23:39] Again, sell it to someone else. [23:41] Peggy Flanagan. [23:42] So I would say this, Michelle Tafoya, who was endorsed by Donald Trump this week. [23:47] Let's be clear. [23:49] Donald Trump doesn't just endorse anybody. [23:52] In fact, he endorses against people in his own party if they dare to take him on. [23:57] Michelle Tafoya passed his litmus test with flying colors. [24:00] She supports the tariffs, the trade wars, the war in Iran. [24:04] She has said that ICE should be called nice. [24:06] The cuts to health care, the cuts to food assistance. [24:09] She even said that she agrees with him on invading Greenland. [24:14] So give me a break. [24:15] And this is the deal. [24:17] Donald Trump himself has told people, act as if I am on the ballot. [24:21] When you have one candidate who's endorsed by Donald Trump and it's Michelle Tafoya, I hope Minnesotans act accordingly. [24:28] You and I are on the ballot, Peggy. [24:30] You and I. [24:30] Michelle Tafoya, the federal government has withheld hundreds of millions of Medicaid dollars from Minnesota citing fraud. [24:35] Legitimate providers worry that they're being put at risk and their services they provide are. [24:40] Are you in line with this Trump administration approach? [24:42] Listen, here's how I would approach fraud from the United States Senate. [24:46] And there are three prongs to this. [24:48] Number one, if you're a guest of this country and you defraud Americans, you must leave. [24:53] You must leave and you should have no pathway back. [24:55] Number two, if you're an American and you defraud your fellow Americans, we should be talking about mandatory prison minimums, tough sentences, not easygoing slap on the wrist. [25:06] And number three, if you're a state like Minnesota who cannot keep your financial house in order, [25:11] why would the federal government release billions and billions of dollars to you only to see it go to fraud? [25:19] So those are the things that need to be done. [25:21] And my opponent here just says, throw more money on it, throw more government at it, raise more taxes. [25:27] That's the way to combat this. [25:28] This is exactly the opposite way to combat this. [25:31] Peggy Flanagan, are you on board with the way that the money has been withheld? [25:36] So I think it's really important to name what just happened here. [25:41] As Michelle Tafoya talks about this specific bill with regards to people who commit fraud, [25:47] this is Ted Cruz's bill, which essentially allows an individual at ICE agent to simply accuse somebody of of a crime or misdoing, [25:58] and they will be deported without due process. [26:01] That is unconstitutional and we should not stand for it. [26:04] I believe that we absolutely should do everything we can to protect taxpayer dollars. [26:10] And then when we see what is happening under this president, the corruption, the money making hand over fist for himself and for his family, [26:20] Michelle Tafoya still has nothing to say about that. [26:23] And the tax breaks for billionaires, the folks who are enriching themselves, the top 1%, [26:29] it's outrageous at the cost of everything else and working families in Minnesota. [26:35] We can do better. [26:36] We're going to shift gears here. [26:37] Thousands of federal agents were sent to Minnesota this winter, an immigration enforcement action that had some pretense and fraud. [26:46] Peggy Flanagan, you said in a debate right here this summer that ICE has to be ripped apart. [26:51] What should replace it? [26:52] So ICE should absolutely be ripped apart and it should be replaced by a system that absolutely has secure borders, [27:01] that is grounded in public safety for everyone, dignity, due process, humanity, and a pathway to citizenship for folks who have been here who are law abiding. [27:11] But this is, I think, one of the places, again, where you might hear something different from my opponent in the last three weeks of the campaign. [27:20] But we know what we saw here, which was Agents Who Descended, the chaos, the terror, the killing of two Minnesotans, Renee Good and Alex Preddy. [27:32] My opponent used the footage of Operation Metro Surge in her rollout video just days after Renee Good was killed. [27:42] And in fact, she went on a podcast the day Renee Good was killed and basically blamed her for her own death. [27:51] We can absolutely do better. [27:53] And Michelle Tafoya is not it. [27:54] I'm going to ask Michelle Tafoya about Michelle Tafoya's stance here because it has evolved since the beginning. [27:59] In early January, you defended the broader mission as one of law and order, as well as the conduct of agents amid protests. [28:05] More recently, you have said that the surge was very poorly handled. [28:09] Which is it? [28:11] I'm going to answer this question as the granddaughter of immigrants. [28:14] And I'm going to answer this question as the adoptive mother of a Colombian-born child. [28:19] America should be a nation of immigration and also a nation of law and order. [28:24] Those two things go hand in hand. [28:27] The loss of Renee Good and Alex Preddy is devastating. [28:31] I did not like the way that ICE rollout was handled by Kristi Noem, and she was appropriately fired. [28:35] We also had a massive failure in leadership from Governor Tim Walz and Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, [28:43] who would not allow local law enforcement to help protect the protesters, help protect the immigrants, [28:50] help protect the law enforcement, or help protect the general public. [28:54] They told our officers to stand down. [28:57] That is one of the big reasons the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association [29:01] and the Minneapolis Federation of Police have endorsed me and not Peggy Flanagan. [29:06] In fact, the MPPOA said the other day that they have spent more time talking with me, [29:11] a civilian, in the last six months than they've ever spoken with Peggy Flanagan in eight years as Lieutenant Governor. [29:19] This did not have to happen this way. [29:21] I think once it got cleaned up and Tom Homan came in, we've seen it settle down. [29:25] But we need to have law and order. [29:28] Minnesotans want peaceful streets, safe streets, neighborhoods they can feel comfortable in. [29:33] So I want to present all of that, keep the border secure, get rid of the worst of the worst, [29:38] while preserving the promise of immigration that has brought so much opportunity to me, my family, and my daughter. [29:46] Peggy Flanagan, did the administration add to the tensions, your administration? [29:51] I believe that, you know, what we saw in Minnesota, the 3,000 ICE agents who are here, [30:01] and what I witnessed was that Minnesotans were peacefully protesting, and the chaos, the terror. [30:10] And as my opponent tries to, again, reinvent herself and her position, we all saw Liam Conejo Ramos, right, [30:20] the little five-year-old in the bunny hat, who was detained. [30:25] ICE has detained 6,200 children. [30:29] And my opponent said ICE treats children really, really well. [30:33] She also has said ICE should actually be called nice. [30:36] So we are in a moment where Michelle Tafoya, again, is trying to reinvent who she is just to get across the finish line here in the final weeks of the campaign. [30:47] But the fact that she used rollout footage in her campaign video from Operation Metro Surge, I think, tells you how she really feels. [30:56] And Christy Noem, the reason Christy Noem was fired is because the people of Minnesota stood up for our neighbors. [31:03] We did not turn on each other. We turned towards each other. [31:07] 30 seconds. [31:08] Peaceful protests, throwing bottles and rocks at officers is a peaceful protest. [31:15] Following them to their hotels is a peaceful protest. [31:18] The open border policies that Peggy Flanagan's preferred party supports is not the one that Americans want. [31:26] So this was not about peaceful protesting. [31:29] This was about violence and criminal conduct. [31:34] And she should know because she has participated in illegal protests in the past as well. [31:38] Two Minnesotans are dead due to Donald Trump's ICE. [31:43] Michelle Tafoya was A-OK with all of it, used it in her campaign rollout video, said that Renee Good was responsible for her own death. [31:54] Minnesotans are smarter than this new version of Michelle Tafoya, who has shown up in the final weeks of this campaign. [32:00] Give me a break. [32:01] You're listening to Politics Friday on NPR News. [32:04] In our debate in the U.S. Senate race, we have Peggy Flanagan and Michelle Tafoya with us this hour. [32:09] Brian, can I say one more thing? [32:10] You can probably jump in here because it's a similar topic area. [32:14] You've recently elevated public safety as an issue in this campaign. [32:18] Government statistics show that there has been a decline in violent crime across the country and here in Minnesota. [32:23] What additional things do you want the federal government to do on public safety? [32:27] We can do a lot for public safety. [32:29] One of the things we can do is get rid of the worst of the worst. [32:32] I know that we are concerned about a lot, thousands of children who were trafficked here to America illegally under the Joe Biden administration. [32:42] What about those children who have been raped, who have been hurt, who have been trafficked? [32:48] What about Lake and Riley and all of the other victims of violent, fatal crime by these illegal immigrants? [32:58] What about them? [32:59] I don't hear Peggy ever crying about Sheridan Gorman or any of the other victims of these illegal aliens who have come in in, you know, during Joe Biden's reign and have hurt these young women, killed these young women. [33:15] Talk about family separation. That is permanent family separation. [33:20] Peggy Flanagan, President Trump says state and local leaders should seek federal intervention to reduce violence among young people of Somali descent. [33:27] Is it a problem? And what would you do about it? [33:31] So I was horrified to hear the reports of the homecoming game. [33:36] Right. When kids go to a homecoming game, it should be to make memories with their friends, not have a memory of running from bullets. [33:47] I support Drew Evans and the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension that is working to bring law enforcement officers together across the region to develop a real strategy to take on this gang violence. [34:00] But I also want to be clear about is that as we're talking about, you know, public safety under the Trump administration, one hundred and sixty nine million dollars has been cut from support for survivors and crime victims and programs that would go into prevention. [34:19] Those are the kind of cuts that I think need to be restored and we should do everything we can to make sure that law enforcement has the resources that they need here on the ground. [34:30] Michelle Tafoya, is the way that President Trump talks about the Somali community in Minnesota appropriate? [34:35] No, and I've said it before. It was not appropriate. [34:37] We do not need to brush up paint with a broad brush an entire community. [34:42] But Peggy Flanagan can't name it. She won't name it. [34:46] And the way to solve problems is by naming them. [34:48] And even Jamashine, the deputy sheriff in Ramsey County, who is himself Somali, has said we have a Somali gang violence problem. [34:58] She will not name it. There are many things that we can do. [35:01] We can bring in the FBI. We can bring in the U.S. [35:04] Marshals to help support, whether it's through technological interventions, because a lot of this stuff is advertised and boasted about on Instagram and TikTok, whether it's working directly with our sheriff's departments, with all of law enforcement. [35:19] But first, we've got to name it. And she won't do that. [35:22] Peggy Flanagan? [35:22] I absolutely will name that gang violence is a problem. [35:27] I also will name the fact that we are in a moment where Donald Trump, who supports my opponents, posted on True Social just days ago, stoking, you know, violence and encouraging Minnesotans to turn on each other. [35:44] That is completely inappropriate. [35:47] But I also just want to be clear that, you know, I have worked really hard to make sure that law enforcement in Minnesota has the resources they need. [36:00] I traveled across the state meeting with folks in local communities, pushed three million or three hundred million dollars across the finish line in the legislature to get local law enforcement resources that they got to decide what was the best way to utilize that. [36:17] An additional helicopter for the state patrol, the new SEOC are all things that that I support so that law enforcement has the tools that they need to reduce violence. [36:28] She will not name the problem. And she talks about helping law enforcement. [36:32] And I would reiterate the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association has endorsed me, not my opponent. [36:39] And they have said to me very clearly, they have spent more time talking to me in six months than they've spoken to her in eight years. [36:45] So she can talk about her support for law enforcement. They do not support her. [36:49] Another major issue that either of you will confront if you get to Washington is the state of Social Security. [36:54] The trust fund is due to be depleted within the next six years. [36:58] The length of this Senate term and automatic benefit cuts would occur if that happens. [37:02] It affects more than one million people in this state alone. [37:05] And Peggy Flanagan, you said before that you would raise the level of income before Social Security taxes blink off. [37:12] Where would that new cap be if you had your way? [37:14] So we have to remove the cap for $250,000 or higher. [37:18] I support the Social Security Expansion Act, and that will ensure solvency for at least the next seven decades. [37:25] I know that Social Security is one of the most successful programs our country has ever seen. [37:31] Our seniors who have paid into it, right, they've earned those benefits. [37:36] And we have to make sure, one, that we protect it from privatization, that we make sure that those resources are available for folks into the future. [37:45] And that is the plan. [37:47] Is that enough to shore up the program? [37:49] For at least the next seven decades. [37:52] And I think that that's, you know, what folks are asking for. [37:56] My opponent was just recently asked what her plan was by the Star Tribune. [38:01] She didn't respond. [38:03] I did. [38:04] And I think that this is an opportunity for us to ensure that it's available for folks. [38:09] Michelle Coutufoia, how would you head off that cliff? [38:11] 2032 is actually the year that it is set to, that this trust fund is set to run out. [38:16] 2033 for Medicare, by the way. [38:17] And she gave a nice little answer there that is very just pat. [38:24] But we're not going to solve this is a massive issue. [38:27] We're not going to solve it in a 60 minute debate debate. [38:30] And what I think Minnesotans need to think about is who they are sending to the Senate to solve this issue. [38:36] We need independent thinkers. [38:38] We need people willing to reach across the aisle to make sure that we find solutions that are second level, third level thinking, solutions that take care of all Americans and solutions that are come to with sober thought and sober judgment and a willingness to work across the aisle, which my opponent has never demonstrated. [38:57] People do want to know where you would draw the line. [38:59] Would you support a higher tax or a higher retirement age? [39:01] Again, I will say this. [39:03] There are people in Congress right now who are working on this and I want to go and join them and reach across the aisle to reach this kind of massive, massive decision. [39:13] This is not an issue you're going to sit here and solve with one pat answer. [39:17] I'm willing to go and listen and talk and work with other people, regardless of party. [39:23] I would wonder where Peggy Flanagan, which Republican would she be willing to work with in the U.S. Senate? [39:28] Is there any? [39:29] I'm willing to work across the aisle. [39:30] By the way, we've got a six-year term ahead of us. [39:34] The president, who she can't name enough and she likes to talk about all the time, will be there for two years. [39:41] Then we will have a change in the presidency. [39:43] I am willing to work with whoever is holding that office to solve problems for the people of Minnesota. [39:48] Peggy Flanagan. [39:48] Brian, I think what you heard is that Michelle Tafoya does not have a plan to protect Social Security, and I do. [39:54] Similarly, there's problems, as you noted, with the Medicare program and the stability of that. [40:00] Even in Minnesota right now, there's insurers that are discontinuing or restructuring their supplemental plans over cost concerns. [40:07] What would you do to help there? [40:09] Michelle Tafoya, you first. [40:09] Yeah, health care is way, way, way too expensive in general, right? [40:15] Families should not have to decide between groceries and, you know, health care. [40:21] Seniors should not have to decide between utilities and their medications. [40:25] As I recall, Democrats told us that Obamacare was going to bend the cost curve and that was going to solve everything. [40:32] Well, that was simply not true. [40:34] We are now subsidizing Obamacare. [40:37] So why is this? [40:39] It's because we have built a broken system. [40:42] There are leaks in this boat that need to get fixed. [40:45] And again, it's going to take crossover, reaching across the aisle and talking to people about getting that done. [40:52] And I would just say that we need to attack it from the point of the price gougers, the hospitals who will charge different prices for the same procedure. [41:02] We need to tackle big insurance and big pharma. [41:05] And all of those things I will do by reaching across the aisle and working with both sides to get it done. [41:10] Peggy Flanagan, how would you stabilize that Medicare program? [41:13] So when it comes to health care, I am a supporter of Medicare for all. [41:17] I think that we know that there are too many Minnesotans right now who are paying for health insurance but not getting health care. [41:26] I talked to a librarian who's married to a farmer in Cambie, Minnesota. [41:31] Her deductible is $16,000 a year. [41:34] I talked to a nurse practitioner in Detroit Lakes who has an $18,000 deductible. [41:40] And we know that this is an issue, frankly, that impacts everywhere across the state. [41:46] But I hear about it particularly in greater Minnesota. [41:49] One of the places where I am really eager, we get to Medicare for all, but on the way, I want to ban prior authorization. [41:55] I think some dude behind a desk or, you know, worse yet, some AI bot should not decide whether or not you get the life-saving health care that you deserve. [42:03] And I know that that is one of the places where I am very excited to work across the aisle to get that done. [42:09] And I would just say this. [42:11] Michelle Tafoya supports the big, beautiful bill, which is ensuring that 170,000 Minnesotans will lose their health care and costs, premiums are going to double. [42:23] We cannot afford to send Michelle Tafoya to Washington, D.C. when it comes to lowering our health care costs. [42:28] Brief response. [42:28] Yes, well, she wants to give money and power to bureaucrats in D.C. and St. Paul. [42:34] I want to give money and power to Minnesotans. [42:37] Medicare for all is a pipe dream. [42:40] It will cost trillions and trillions of dollars that we don't have. [42:45] Our national debt is $40 trillion. [42:48] So on the one hand, she wants to give all this money and power to government bureaucrats. [42:53] She's talking about a dude behind a desk. [42:55] We're talking about government bureaucrats handling medication and pharmaceuticals and big pharma and all of that for Americans. [43:04] No, look. [43:05] And by the way, the other side says, oh, let's let corporate bureaucrats handle your medication and your health care. [43:11] No, let's let Minnesotans handle their own health care. [43:14] Medicare for all is a pipe dream that is unaffordable. [43:17] We're going to move to a new topic. [43:18] We're actually going to save $1 trillion and save the lives of 114,000 people per year. [43:24] We're going to move to a new topic, and we'll start with you on this one, Peggy Flanagan. [43:27] Early in the Senate term, there will likely be a Supreme Court opening, perhaps two. [43:31] The last four nominations have had narrow confirmation on largely party line votes. [43:37] Peggy Flanagan, are you an automatic no on any nominees of President Trump? [43:41] So I think that, you know, Brian, I'm so glad that you asked about this because that is the reason why, you know, this this Senate seat matters tremendously. [43:53] My opponent has been very clear. [43:55] She literally signed her name on a letter to Republican delegates that said, well, one, first of all, that she was completely aligned with Donald Trump on the issue of abortion. [44:03] And that, too, she confirmed that she would vote for conservative justices at the Supreme Court and federal level. [44:11] When we see that there are two branches of government that, frankly, under this president are not acting independently, we need to make sure that we are looking at Supreme Court reform. [44:21] And, you know, we also need to ensure that the individuals that we are appointing to the court believe in upholding the Constitution and believe in upholding their role in this democracy. [44:34] And I will certainly determine based on each conversation that I would have with these these nominees. [44:41] But right now, I do not like Donald Trump's track record and I couldn't see voting to support one of his nominees. [44:48] Michelle Tafoya, are you prone to vote yes on any of President Trump's nominees? [44:51] Again, you talk to the nominees and you make that determination as you talk to them. [44:55] But Peggy's far left flank that she is completely married to want Supreme Court reform. [45:01] They want to pack the Supreme Court. [45:03] That's what they want to do if they get power. [45:06] Pack the Supreme Court until it suits them. [45:08] Pack the Supreme Court until there are enough judges there to do their bidding. [45:13] That's not what the Supreme Court is all about. [45:15] And as far as conservative judges, strict constructionist judges, I think, are healthy for America. [45:20] Help define that. [45:21] What is that criteria that you're going to apply here? [45:22] Well, I'm going to see how they read the Constitution and, you know, what they what they see in the Constitution that is worth upholding. [45:30] Not this sort of mamby pamby looking at things that they can change and be activist judges. [45:36] I will not vote for activist judges and I will certainly not vote to pack the Supreme Court criteria you would use to evaluate nominees. [45:42] I think upholding the rule of law, ensuring that the Constitution has followed. [45:49] But I think one of the biggest things when we talk about Supreme Court reform, right? [45:54] I think I believe that we should add additional seats to the Supreme Court. [45:58] I believe that we absolutely should look at staggered terms. [46:03] But I also know this, that we need to make sure that we are pushing for more stringent ethics and rules around the Supreme Court. [46:12] You can't pay for a luxury cruise for, you know, Justice Thomas and then come before him and think that somehow that's appropriate. [46:22] We need to make sure that the Supreme Court is held to a much higher standard. [46:27] But to be clear, I just want to make sure that everyone knows that Michelle Tafoya has said that she will vote for conservative justices that Donald Trump brings forward. [46:36] Michelle Tafoya, because it came up in her answer earlier, I do want to touch on it on abortion. [46:41] You've said that you support reasonable access in the first three months of pregnancy. [46:45] Define what that means and whether you would support legislation to outlaw it past that first trimester. [46:50] I am a pro-choice Republican. [46:52] I have said that from the very beginning. [46:55] And look, this, when Roe v. Wade was overturned, this issue was kicked back to the states. [47:00] Minnesota made its decisions about this issue and it is settled law. [47:06] And I have no desire from the United States Senate to change that law. [47:10] I have taken a lot of heat from my party for being a pro-choice Republican. [47:17] I wonder if there is any issue with which Peggy Flanagan disagrees with the far left flank of her party. [47:23] Is there any time she has stood up to her party and said, I disagree? [47:26] Is there any time she stood up to Tim Walz and said, I disagree? [47:31] Or has she been simply a rubber stamp to this failed Tim Walz administration? [47:36] What does reasonable access mean? [47:41] Three months. [47:42] I am, you know what? [47:44] Reasonable access is reasonable access. [47:45] In Minnesota, you've got access up to nine months. [47:48] Okay. [47:49] Peggy Flanagan, is your opponent correct that this is a matter for the states and not the federal government [47:53] and address this assertion that you haven't been willing to stand up to your left flank? [47:58] So I would say this, this is yet another place where we are getting two different versions [48:05] of Michelle Tafoya. [48:07] She said very clearly to Republican delegates a letter that she signed her name to that [48:15] said, I am completely aligned with Donald Trump on the issue of abortion. [48:20] She committed to vote for conservative justices at the Supreme Court and federal level with [48:26] regards to access to abortion. [48:30] You cannot call yourself completely aligned with Donald Trump on abortion and then somehow [48:36] call yourself pro-choice. [48:38] It's ridiculous. [48:40] I am a pro-choice Republican. [48:42] I have taken heat from my party over this issue. [48:46] When has Peggy Flanagan disagreed with her party on anything? [48:52] When has she stood up to Tim Walz or the far left flank of the Democrat party on anything? [48:57] I'd like her to name one thing. [48:59] Karen, respond. [49:00] Sure. [49:00] I would, I would just say this, you know, I'm proud of the work that I've done over [49:06] the course of my career. [49:08] When I led the Children's Defense Fund, I got some heat from DFLers because I worked with [49:15] Republicans to get our bills over the finish line. [49:18] I had someone say like, I authored this bill last time. [49:21] How come you brought it, you know, to this Republican member? [49:24] And I said, well, because two years in the life of a child is a really long time and we [49:29] need to make sure that we have healthy birth outcomes for moms and their babies. [49:34] I can also tell you that there were two bills when I was in the legislature in one session [49:38] that were brought forward and passed that were from DFLers when Republicans were in the [49:44] majority. [49:44] One of them was mine because I am absolutely willing to work across the aisle. [49:51] And I'd say, you know, a place where I might not be completely in line with everyone in [49:56] my party is around biofuels. [49:59] I am a big supporter of E15, year round E15. [50:02] And I think it's incredibly important that we make sure that we are investing in biofuel, [50:09] sustainable aviation fuel. [50:10] And that's not always in line with my party. [50:13] Well, let's talk about changing a stance. [50:15] She has also said that she wants liquid fuels banned by the year, I think, 2040. [50:19] All right, polling shows that most Minnesotans are fearful about artificial intelligence or [50:23] what the president now calls superintelligence. [50:26] Should Congress approve a regulatory law in this space? [50:28] And if so, what are one or two must-haves for you, Michelle Tafoya? [50:31] I'll tell you what a must-have is for me. [50:33] And let's talk, focus on data centers for a moment. [50:36] A must-have for me, because America is the most innovative country in the world. [50:40] We just saw a car fly yesterday. [50:43] And Minnesota is a state of innovation. [50:45] You look at 3M, you look at the Mayo Clinic, you look at the University of Minnesota. [50:50] I am a champion for innovators. [50:52] But when it comes to data centers, I think two words resolve this debate. [50:56] Local control. [50:58] So if a city or a community wants a data center there and they can use their leverage to build [51:03] something that benefits that community, they should do it. [51:07] If the next town over says, no, thank you, we don't want it, fine. [51:10] Loudoun County in Virginia has embraced a lot of this. [51:13] So it's got to come down to local control. [51:16] I will not be for top-down mandates on data centers. [51:19] Peggy Flanagan, one or two must-haves in the artificial intelligence space. [51:22] Certainly, I would just say this. [51:23] Michelle Tafoya has actually said that data centers are, quote, just, we have to accept [51:27] them as a fact of life and encourage trees to be planted around these data centers so [51:32] that we don't have to see them. [51:34] I think we always should ask the question, who benefits? [51:37] Is it these AI tech millionaires or is it the local community? [51:42] And I will always stand on the side of local community to make their own decisions. [51:46] But when it comes to artificial intelligence? [51:47] When it comes to AI. [51:49] So we are in a moment, and I don't want to sound like, you know, Sarah Connor from The [51:54] Terminator. [51:55] But I do think that we have to be very clear that there are catastrophic risks that AI poses. [52:02] I think we need an independent body that will regulate AI companies. [52:08] We also need to make sure that there are independent inspectors who are embedded within these companies [52:15] themselves. [52:16] Right now, it feels like it is the wild, wild west. [52:20] Donald Trump has said that he doesn't support any level of regulation. [52:25] He has endorsed my opponent. [52:27] And I think if people care about this issue, there's a pretty clear choice in this race. [52:31] All right, we're getting down to like the last six minutes, and I do want to leave time [52:34] for closing arguments at the end. [52:36] So a sentence or two on each of these would be great here. [52:38] Michelle Tafoya, President Donald Trump suggested last night that he might come to Minnesota [52:42] in the closing days of the campaign. [52:43] Would you join him on stage? [52:44] Listen, I am running a campaign that includes voters from all over the political spectrum. [52:51] I want to invite Kamala Harris voters into this campaign. [52:55] I want to invite Donald Trump voters into this campaign. [52:58] I want to invite, in fact, we have an ad dropping, a lot of Democrats crossing over to vote for [53:04] this campaign. [53:05] They are all welcome to join in this campaign for change because the option to vote for [53:11] Peggy Flanagan is an option to accept a person who has failed in eight years as lieutenant governor, [53:18] second in command of this state where we have seen fraud. [53:21] And I will ask her a question too, but yes or no, would you appear on stage with the president? [53:24] I am talking to Minnesotans. [53:28] Theirs is the only endorsement that I care about. [53:31] Peggy Flanagan, you've closed out your last two campaigns in 2018 and 2022 alongside Tim Walls. [53:36] Do you want to campaign with him in the final weeks? [53:39] I have made sure that folks understand that this campaign is about Peggy Flanagan, [53:47] that my name will be on the door. [53:50] But, you know, we have done, I think, over like 325 events in 115 communities across the [53:59] state of Minnesota. [54:00] I am hitting the road this afternoon, and we are going to ensure that we are talking to [54:05] voters all across the state. [54:07] And I'm eager to do that. [54:08] On that score, many members of Congress have gotten more distant over time outside of campaign [54:12] season. [54:13] Would you commit to a minimum number of in-person town halls as Minnesota's U.S. [54:17] senator? [54:18] And what might that be? [54:19] Absolutely. [54:19] I mean, we've done, this is my third statewide tour. [54:23] I think that people should expect us to govern the way that we campaign, which is everywhere [54:30] all the time. [54:32] I am eager to do it. [54:33] It's the best part of my job is talking to Minnesotans and hearing from them. [54:36] So, heck yeah, I'm all in. [54:38] Well, she wasn't all in for the KSTP debate, which I showed up for, and she didn't. [54:42] And yes, this campaign is about Peggy Flanagan and a record of failure that spans 20 years, [54:48] eight of which were as lieutenant governor, in which we saw historic fraud, taxpayer dollars [54:54] stolen, sacred taxpayer dollars stolen, education, our scores dipping dramatically, crime spiking, [55:03] gang crime that she won't name spiking. [55:05] And again, a surplus turning into a deficit in the state of Minnesota. [55:09] Yes, this is about Peggy Flanagan. [55:10] Town halls? [55:11] Will you commit to how many? [55:12] As many as people want. [55:14] Okay. [55:16] Term limits. [55:16] Either of you setting yourself up for a personal term limit? [55:19] I would. [55:20] I'm in favor of term limits. [55:21] How many? [55:22] Two or three. [55:23] How many? [55:23] I am not. [55:24] I think elections are where we determine who should be in the role. [55:30] And if you're a good organizer, you can figure it out. [55:32] All right. [55:32] Well, we've reached the point where we're going to let you make this final pitch to the [55:35] people who might be voting now or a few weeks from now. [55:38] We flipped a coin at the beginning. [55:40] And so with the remaining 90 seconds, three minutes, we'll get 90 seconds each. [55:45] Michelle Tafoya, you go first. [55:46] Peggy Flanagan has been a career politician for 20 years. [55:52] For as long as my kids have been alive, she has been collecting a taxpayer paycheck. [55:57] You have been paying her salary. [56:00] And for the last eight years, she has been lieutenant governor and overseen an historically [56:05] bad, failed administration where we've had historic crime. [56:10] We've had fraud up to $9 billion. [56:14] We have students who can't read at grade level. [56:17] Students who can't do math at grade level and kids running from gangfire bullets at [56:24] Eden Prairie High School and other places around the state. [56:27] Now, you can decide she's asking for a promotion. [56:31] You're her boss. [56:32] You pay her. [56:33] I think she deserves a pink slip. [56:35] She wants to raise taxes across the board. [56:37] She wants to spend money this country doesn't have, which will drive up inflation to Joe Biden [56:41] levels of 9 percent. [56:43] And she wants to take away private insurance. [56:45] I want to cut taxes, put more money in your pocket, and I will do more on crime in my first [56:51] eight weeks than she has done in eight years. [56:54] So Peggy Flanagan can spend all of her time tweeting about Donald Trump and she can nothing [57:01] else. [57:01] That seems to be the beginning, the middle and the end of her job. [57:03] She can do that as a private citizen. [57:05] I want to go to the Senate to work across the aisle to be accountable and hold everyone [57:11] accountable and deliver results for Minnesota. [57:14] Peggy Flanagan. [57:16] So thank you so much, Minnesota, for tuning in. [57:20] I am so proud to be a Minnesotan. [57:24] I have been born and raised here and I love the state. [57:27] I can tell you that I'm very clear that I am running for the U.S. Senate to ensure that [57:32] people can afford the lives they want to live by fighting for things like Medicare for all, [57:38] universal child care, raising wages and ending this reckless, endless war in Iran. [57:46] My opponent, Michelle Tafoya, who was endorsed by Donald Trump this week, who just yesterday [57:52] said that he looks forward to coming to Minnesota to campaign on her behalf. [57:56] She has not differed with him on the tariffs, on the trade wars, on the war on Iran until [58:04] 216 days in, on ICE, on cuts to health care and taking food assistance from people, on the [58:13] 170,000 Minnesotans who are going to lose access to their health care. [58:19] And in fact, she called January 6 insurrectionists really good people. [58:26] Michelle Tafoya would be a vote for Donald Trump. [58:30] I would be a vote for Minnesota. [58:32] I humbly ask for your support for your vote by November 3rd so we can ensure that this [58:38] country, the state of Minnesota, is a place where people can afford the lives they want [58:42] to live. [58:43] And this grift that has continued under Donald Trump comes to a stop. [58:47] And that is all the time we have. [58:49] We thank Michelle Tafoya and Peggy Flanagan, both of you, for showing up to this debate [58:53] today. [58:54] It was produced by Matt Alvarez and Jeff Jones with a lot of folks from our NPR News and [58:57] Events technical teams. [58:59] Find a video version of this debate at nprnews.org as well as archive videos of our prior debates [59:04] in key races. [59:05] Our handy voter guide is there too. [59:07] Remember, Election Day is Tuesday, November 3rd. [59:10] Early voting has begun. [59:11] I'm Brian Baxt, hoping you stay safe and have a good weekend.