Mike Pence says GOP voters ‘didn’t turn left’ but were ‘turned off’ in midterms: Full interview

[0:02] Welcome back. And joining me now is former Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Vice President, [0:08] welcome back to Meet the Press. Good to be with you. Thanks for having me on. [0:11] It's wonderful to have you here. Thank you for being here in person. Despite all of the travel [0:15] issues, we really appreciate it. I do want to start on the midterm results, these historic wins [0:22] that Democrats had. Do you believe President Trump bears responsibility for the losses that [0:28] Republicans suffered? Well, first, let me do what we do on the gridiron, and that is give the other [0:34] side their due. Democrats did what they needed to do in this election. But like millions of [0:41] Republicans, I'm deeply disappointed to see so many men and women of great caliber and leadership [0:49] turned away and turned out in this massive defeat in the midterm elections. As I look at it, it wasn't [0:58] just a rout. It was a reckoning. And I do believe in many respects our voters rejected President [1:07] Trump's embrace of protectionist tariffs, $41 trillion national debt that continues to rise, [1:16] the embrace of appeasement with regard to Russia and now even Iran, marginalizing the right to life, [1:24] and then the whole air of self-dealing and corruption around this administration, I think had a real [1:30] impact on our voters. As I traveled across the country in the last week, I'm convinced our voters [1:37] didn't turn left. I think they were turned off. But I have faith. I truly believe, as I wrote in my book [1:45] this summer, that if Republicans will turn back to our commitment to fiscal responsibility, [1:54] a strong defense, traditional values, and carry that across the country, that just like we did in 2006, [2:01] we can win it all back again. But it's going to take some doing, and I look forward to being a part [2:07] of that conversation. Well, let's unpack everything you just said. Let's start with Iran, because [2:12] Vice President J.D. Vance said he believes the Iran war was the reasons that Republicans lost, [2:19] drove away Trump supporters, he even said. The war did, of course, cause gas prices to spike a range [2:26] of other issues. Do you agree with the current vice president that Iran played a significant role? [2:34] Well, look, I pray for the vice president and his family. Nobody understands his job in this country [2:39] as well as I do. He's a good man. But Vice President Vance is wrong. We didn't lose this [2:48] midterm election because of the war. I think part of the reason why voters were turned off [2:55] was because after seeing our military respond brilliantly in Operation Epic Fury and in the [3:02] strike against Iran last year, for inexplicable reasons, we stopped after five weeks. We sunk their [3:09] navy. We had complete air superiority, took down 15,000 military sites in Iran, and then we paused [3:17] and began to embrace the politics of appeasement. You know, there's an old saying that you don't make [3:24] peace with your enemy, you make peace with your defeated enemy. And you need to look no further [3:29] than Bahrain in the last 24 hours, where Iran is still firing on U.S. targets, on our base there, [3:35] to see that the Iranians certainly don't give evidence of feeling defeated. I believe they are. [3:44] But I think the frustration that many Americans had with seeing gasoline prices rise, diesel prices rise, [3:50] was the fact not that we went to war, not that we took the fight to the world's leading state sponsor [3:57] terrorism, but that we stopped short. And I have to believe that that was a reflection in some [4:04] respect of some of the voices of isolationism on the populist right that have gained some purchase [4:09] with this administration. You talk about the culture of corruption. I want to talk about [4:15] that, but start through the lens of the NVIDIA crisis. You have CEO Jensen Wong stepping down [4:24] after it was revealed he had an affair with someone who's an alleged Chinese spy. President Trump [4:30] reportedly briefed on the matter all the way back in May. Do you think President Trump is being tough [4:38] enough on China? Well, Jensen Wong had to go, but it can't stop there. I mean, the American people deserve [4:48] answers about how and why NVIDIA was permitted to transfer our most advanced AI semiconductors [4:59] and chip technology to companies that could well then provide them to communist China. But look, [5:07] I first push back. China is the greatest economic and strategic threat facing the United States of [5:15] America. I know the president's headed that way again this week. I'm all for diplomacy, but it doesn't [5:21] change the reality that China is our chief threat. And if we don't take the right steps, it could become [5:30] an adversary in the years ahead. So I think as you look at this moment, I think it's extremely important [5:37] that we get to the bottom of how this happened. We need to find out why, particularly with regard to the [5:44] Commerce Department, there wasn't greater oversight. You mean investigations? Are you calling for [5:48] investigations? Look, I think the administration themselves and the American people deserve to [5:55] understand how this happened. But for me, it's just as important as you suggested in your question [6:00] that we ask, why has this Trump administration changed its posture on China so dramatically? You'll [6:09] recall that during the first Trump administration, we drew a hard line on China. We imposed $250 billion [6:17] in a year in tariffs. We built up our military in the region. We called out the persecution of Muslim [6:25] Uyghurs as the genocide that it was. But in this administration, things have changed. And I don't [6:32] really understand why. First, it was allowing TikTok to continue to operate in the United States, [6:39] even though it continues to be essentially controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Also, [6:45] the delaying of weapons sales to Taiwan, where in our administration, we made those weapons available. [6:53] And then ultimately on NVIDIA, the decision to loosen the export controls on our most advanced [7:01] microchips is a mystery to me. I want to understand what the rationale for that was. I want to [7:09] understand who, beyond Jensen Huang, was driving that. Because at the end of the day, China for decades [7:17] has been engaging in espionage and intellectual property theft, all in efforts to gain American [7:25] technology that they principally employ, not just for manufacturing, but for their defense, [7:31] military infrastructure. And I think we have to make sure we win the A.I. race. We've got to win [7:37] the A.I. race. But for our national security, as well as for our economic security, the American [7:45] people deserve answers. Within this context, let me ask you broadly about what you describe it as this [7:50] culture of corruption. You campaigned vigorously back in 2016 with President Trump on a promise to drain [8:00] the swamp. Do you think that President Trump has drained the swamp in his second administration? [8:07] Well, let me let me gently correct you and say I didn't say culture of corruption. I said there's, [8:12] I think, I think the air of corruption. One story after another about cabinet officials, [8:18] family members of cabinet officials, and family members, and the President's first family [8:24] themselves have just been troubling to the American people. I mean, literally. Look, [8:29] the President was a successful businessman long before he came into office. No one begrudges [8:35] him or the Trump family to continue to be in business. But a billion dollar increase in your [8:41] network through cryptocurrency is astounding to Americans. And the fact that a large portion of [8:50] the source of that before the inauguration came from foreign interests in the Arab world. All of that, [8:56] I'm just telling you, as I've traveled across the country, has caused many of our most ardent [9:02] supporters around the country, hearkening back to that promise to drain the swamp to have concerns. [9:09] And so I really do believe that for the Republican Party going forward, it's going to be essential [9:14] that we return our party to the conservative principles that essentially were synonymous with [9:22] the Republican Party for 50 years. But also, I think returning our party to the high standards [9:29] in public office will be just as important. To that point about conservative principles, [9:34] you've said in order for Republicans to win in 2028, the nominee has to believe [9:41] in conservative principles. Do you believe Vice President J.D. Vance is a principled conservative [9:48] by your definition? You know, I don't know the Vice President [9:51] well enough to answer that question. But I think his opposition to U.S. support for Ukraine, [10:01] while he was a senator and the way he celebrated the stops and starts of U.S. support for Ukraine [10:08] during the course of the last two years, has given a concern to many of us that believe that America is [10:14] the leader of the free world, that we have an obligation to stand with our allies as they stand [10:20] up to Russian aggression. And also, I think that when you look at this administration, not only [10:28] broad-based tariffs on friend and foe alike, but nationalizing 41 American businesses in part, [10:35] price controls on pharmaceuticals and credit cards. You know, there's the administration themselves, [10:42] and I would assume the Vice President himself, you know, have taken the party in a direction far [10:49] afield from the principles of American leadership in the world, limited government and fiscal [10:54] responsibility. And probably most troubling to me has been marginalizing the right to life. And this [11:00] is an administration that literally has not lifted a finger to support states that are trying to stem [11:08] the flow of mail order abortion pills around the country. I really believe that for the way forward [11:17] in 2028, that the way we win back the hearts and minds of the Americans that [11:24] win a different direction in 2026 is to get back to those conservative principles and values. [11:30] Two more quick questions. Do you believe Vice President Vance has a lock [11:34] on the nomination if he were to run? Well, you know, I'm not a political pundit, [11:41] and so I'll leave that speculation to others. But I would hope that we have a very vigorous debate [11:48] going forward about the leadership of the party. Look, we've got a terrifically deep bench in the [11:54] Republican Party. I mean, my calling in my life right now is simply to challenge people in our party [12:01] to focus on what we're for before we focus on who we're for. I don't I don't begrudge the media [12:07] turning your attention to the list and who are the names and how do they rate. And but honestly, [12:14] as Republicans, as I've said, I think if we don't get our party back to that traditional conservative [12:22] agenda and values that's defined the Republican movement for 50 years, it won't matter who we nominate [12:28] in 2020. You talk about a vigorous debate. Have you ruled out running, Mr. Vice President for [12:33] president? Well, look, my I would tell you all of my energies are really focused on on what I wrote [12:41] about in my book last summer about what conservatives believe on the work of our foundation advancing [12:47] American freedom. Now, my faith teaches me that we're not promised tomorrow, that my life is not my own. [12:54] And so I'm going to leave the future to take care of itself for right now, for me, for my family, [13:01] for the people around us. We're going to continue to champion those broad mainstream conservative [13:06] principles in the hope that we see a standard bearer and a party return because it's not just [13:11] good for the Republican Party. These are the principles that have always made America strong [13:15] and prosperous and free. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you so much for being here. And thank you [13:20] for your perspective. We really appreciate it. Thank you.