Michigan Republican Gubernatorial Full Debate

[0:00] This is a special edition of The Pulse, a Republican gubernatorial debate. [0:04] Live from our Fox 2 studios, here is Rup Raj. [0:08] And good evening and welcome to Studio C as the sprint of the August primary kicks into high gear. [0:12] We're so glad you're with us. [0:14] You know, you saw our conversation with Democratic candidate for Governor Chris Swanson last month. [0:18] Jocelyn Benson was invited to debate with two months' notice, but declined to appear here. [0:23] Now it's the Republicans' turn. [0:24] And we should mention, this debate is an hour long. [0:27] The first half hour is on both Fox 2 and our streaming platform, Fox Local. [0:31] The second half is exclusively on Fox Local. [0:34] So have your phone ready. [0:35] We'll have a QR code at the end of the first half hour that'll take you right to the stream so you can watch the second half right there. [0:42] Now the candidates will take questions from our audience and you at home as well. [0:45] You can scan the QR code on your screen or text it to 248-200-5042. [0:51] So many of the questions have to do with topics that many of you at home are wondering about. [0:55] Now for the rules. [0:56] Candidates will get a one-minute opening statement and up to a minute 30 to answer questions that I ask. [1:02] The candidates will not address each other with questions, but if statements are made about another candidate on stage explicitly about a policy point or a direct accusation, that candidate will get up to a one-minute rebuttal. [1:15] I want to welcome the three Republican candidates for Governor of the great state of Michigan, John James, Mike Cox, and Perry Johnson. [1:22] Welcome to tonight's debate. [1:23] Congressman James, you get the first opening statement here tonight. [1:28] Well, thanks, Rube. [1:28] It's an honor to be here. [1:29] It's an honor to be endorsed by the president. [1:31] And it's an honor to speak directly to you tonight. [1:34] I'm excited and I'm running because I love Michigan. [1:37] I'm doing this for my kids and for yours. [1:40] Michigan's on fire. [1:41] And I've always run toward the fire. [1:43] As a combat veteran who answered the call after 9-11 in defense of this country, [1:46] as a business leader who's developed and grown jobs in the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan, [1:51] and as somebody who deployed to the swamp to push back on the Marxist woke agenda in my first term [1:57] and stand up with President Trump to make America great again in the second term. [2:01] But right now, after seven and a half years of Gretchen Whitmer, we have higher taxes, we have high electricity bills, [2:07] our kids can't read, and criminals are back out on the street, but we can fix that. [2:11] We can work together to lower taxes, to bring our jobs back and fix our roads. [2:17] Tonight, you're going to hear a lot of things. [2:19] I'm going to be focusing on you. [2:21] My opponent's going to be focused on me. [2:23] So while we're attacking the issues, they're going to be attacking me because, frankly, [2:27] resorting to deceit and defamation is what they do because they're desperate. [2:31] We're going to be focusing on what it's going to take to make life for you better because Michigan's made for more. [2:37] I'm excited and the best is yet to come. [2:39] Congressman John James, thank you. [2:41] Mike Cox, Mr. Cox, you have one minute. [2:43] Thank you, Roop. [2:45] My dad was a carpenter. [2:46] My mom was a maid. [2:48] They came to Michigan because Michigan, they could buy their own home in a safe neighborhood with good schools. [2:54] And they knew that each and every one of their kids could do better than them. [2:58] Too many parents now can't say that. [3:01] Too many parents now cannot say that. [3:03] We need a leader who can win and beat the Democrats and change the seven long years of darkness we've had under Governor Whitmer. [3:11] You know, my parents weren't rich, but they taught me a few things. [3:15] They taught me to fight hard, to work hard, and to go fight for the things I believed in. [3:20] That's why I joined the Marine Corps. [3:21] That's why I spent 13 years in the city of Detroit as a homicide prosecutor. [3:25] And then when I was Attorney General, I fought for people like my mom and dad and people like you all. [3:31] I fought big utilities, and I won. [3:34] I fought big pharma, and I won. [3:36] I fought Blue Cross, and I won. [3:39] And won for all of us. [3:41] We need a winner, someone who can beat Democrats statewide. [3:44] I'm the only one running who's actually done that before. [3:47] Vote for Mike Cox, and we will win again, together, again. [3:51] Thank you very, very much. [3:52] Thank you, Mike. [3:53] Perry Johnson, you have one minute for your opening statement tonight. [3:56] I've spent my entire life bringing quality and efficiency to organizations. [4:01] Navy, DOD, and over 60,000 companies. [4:05] I want to take that skill set and bring quality and efficiency to the state of Michigan. [4:12] Right now, we're taxed to death, and we want to have a realization that if we go and use my mega audit, [4:21] Michigan Efficiency Government Audit, we will be able to clean up that waste and eliminate the state income tax, [4:28] reform the property tax, which will be $4,747 every year to every typical family in Michigan. [4:35] 20 seconds, sir. [4:36] I have three boys, 217, 121. [4:40] I want them to stay in the state. [4:41] I know that I am an outsider, and I know that the bottom line is I'm funding my own campaign. [4:49] I'm beholding to no one. [4:50] And I'm a person that will not be in a position where I have to yield to anyone because I know that I have to solve the problem with my own money and realize right now we're going to make Michigan great again. [5:05] Mr. Johnson, Congressman Mike Cox, thank you all for joining us and for your opening statements. [5:10] And now we begin the round of questions that so many people at home have come to ask us to ask you. [5:16] And there are so many issues and topics that matter. [5:19] Republicans and Democrats alike are wondering. [5:21] We'll begin with Congressman John James. [5:24] If President Trump enacted a policy that was to hurt the state of Michigan, how would you push back? [5:29] Congressman. [5:29] Well, the president and I have a great relationship, which is why he endorsed me. [5:34] I would pick up the phone and I'd call the president. [5:36] And I think a governor who has the relationship to be able to do that, not just call the president, but call on secretaries, especially for a state that gets 40 percent of his budget from the federal sources, [5:45] making sure that we bring more resources back to the state of Michigan is exactly how we're going to make sure we're at the front of the line and not continuously at the back. [5:53] Right now, we need to fix our roads. [5:54] We need to fix our schools. [5:56] And we need to make sure that we are doing these things and having the relationships that I've developed with the president and other folks in Congress is what we're going to need to make sure that Michigan can continue to punch above our weight. [6:08] I'm excited to continue to work with the president as I have on securing the border. [6:11] I'm the only one up here who's actually cut your taxes with the working family tax cuts on day one. [6:16] I'm going to opt into the education, freedom, tax credits and continuing to work with the president to make Michigan great again. [6:23] Thank you, Congressman Mike Cox. [6:24] How would you fight back if President Trump was to impose something that you thought was bad for Michigan? [6:30] Well, I'm a fighter and I'm a winner. [6:32] Here's the reality. [6:34] I fought Jennifer Granholm when she did the wrong things. [6:37] I don't need the president's endorsement to be a fighter and winner for the people of Michigan. [6:42] You know, it's interesting. [6:44] Congressman James seems very defensive, even despite having the president's endorsement. [6:48] Perhaps because the last two times he had the president's endorsement, he squandered it and lost. [6:53] At the end of the day, Michigan Republicans need to nominate and elect a winner. [6:58] I would speak to the president. [7:00] I would talk to the president's folks and would reason with him. [7:03] The reality is the president respects winners, which I've won statewide office twice. [7:07] He respects people who built their own business. [7:10] I built my own business instead of being a trust fund baby, a NEPO baby. [7:15] He respects winners and I will win and fight for the people of Michigan. [7:18] That's my MO. [7:19] I'm a Marine, a homicide prosecutor. [7:21] And as AG, I fought for working folks each and every day and they know they can trust me. [7:27] Perry Johnson, I know that you say you're also friends with President Trump. [7:31] Sometimes that makes things tougher. [7:32] How would you fight back if the president was to impose something that you knew could hurt the people of Michigan? [7:37] Well, first of all, I find it very unlikely that that is ever going to happen. [7:41] And I would sit there and reason with him, talk about logically what in the heck is going on. [7:46] I wouldn't just arbitrarily say, oh, well, this is going to be bad for Michigan. [7:49] What is it that he could do that would be so bad for Michigan? [7:53] Let's be realistic. [7:54] Our whole goal in Michigan is to try to revitalize our economy. [7:57] People are hurting. [7:59] I can feel the pain. [8:01] What we need in Michigan is a situation where we can eliminate the state income tax, [8:06] bring $4,747 to every family in Michigan every year. [8:12] Understand that when we ignite our state, the impact is monumental. [8:19] Every single state in the union that has eliminated the income tax without exception has ignited that state. [8:26] When you have an economy that is booming, it's amazing what goes on. [8:30] Because right now, let's be realistic. [8:33] We have two things that must be done. [8:35] We must eliminate the state income tax and reform the property tax. [8:39] Because we have to have people that are feeling really good. [8:43] Nothing in this world is more painful than when you don't have the money to buy food for your kids. [8:50] When you have to make a decision over whether I can afford food or books, it's a sin. [8:56] That is the kind of thing that we have to avoid. [8:59] So I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that Michigan thrives. [9:04] I want our education system to thrive. [9:07] I want it to be safe. [9:09] And I want everyone in this entire state to feel that things are booming. [9:14] That is where I'm going to have my focus. [9:16] And that's where I'm going to have my discussion with President Trump. [9:19] And I think he and I are in the same wavelength when it comes to that. [9:21] Thank you, Mr. Johnson. [9:22] Congressman James, I do want to kind of follow up on that because there are so many people who are Republican. [9:27] And we've spoken to on this program who say, man, I wish we could figure out a way to disagree with President Trump and still not be disagreeable and still be a united party. [9:36] Is there a policy point or something where you break from this president with? [9:42] Well, first of all, Rup, hopefully I get an additional 30 seconds according to the rules because my name was invoked by Mr. Copps. [9:47] But first and foremost, I am the walking result of the American dream. [9:51] My family came from the Jim Crow South for a better life to Michigan. [9:54] But now, because of the terrible policies of the Whitmer administration, it's looking like my children may have to leave to find the American dream. [10:01] We're going to change that direction. [10:03] He called me a trust fund, baby. [10:04] I call that the walking result of the American dream and what's possible in the state of Michigan. [10:08] My parents have not given me anything. [10:11] Me and my brother and my sister worked and we bought them out. [10:13] Frankly, I've never been given me anything when I graduated West Point, when I got my two master's degrees, when I deployed to Operation Iraqi Freedom and brought all my men, weapons and equipment back home safely, when I grew my company. [10:25] And frankly, it's shameful that this man would insinuate that I was anything other than a hard worker. [10:31] Frankly, he would also probably say that President Trump lost in 2020 when the election was rigged. [10:36] I wonder if he'd admit to that. [10:38] But the fact of the matter is, Mike Cox hasn't won an election since, goodness, before the iPhone was invented. [10:45] And the last election that he ran statewide, he came in a distant third place. [10:50] So, frankly, we need to own up to reality. [10:52] Mike Cox is a fighter, I'll grant that, but he's not a winner. [10:55] I'm a winner of one twice in Southeast Michigan. [10:58] And I'm currently representing the people of Southeast Michigan. [11:01] And President Trump's endorsed me twice because he knows I'm a winner and because he knows that we're going to capitalize and win this time. [11:07] I've worked with the president and I've said many, many times, I can agree with the president without worshiping him. [11:12] I can disagree without attacking him. [11:14] And just like any relationship you have, we have those private, personal conversations and we move toward these things. [11:20] And this is exactly why we have a new fighter mission at Selfridge Air National Guard Base. [11:24] This is exactly why we have $162 million back for a new runway at Selfridge, because we work these things out and we're able to do these things. [11:33] So, I wouldn't out a relationship and I wouldn't air that in public. [11:38] And I don't think anybody out there or here would do that either. [11:41] Congressman James, one moment, please. [11:42] We should point out, though, that there have been various independent bodies and also legislative bodies that have proven there was no widespread voter fraud, [11:51] although there may have been irregularities in the prior elections. [11:53] It's something that we need to make sure we're fact-checking. [11:55] However, we should also point out that when someone does invoke someone else's name, as Mike Cox did with Congressman James, [12:01] we're going to make sure to give that person an extra 30 seconds. [12:04] Mr. Cox, your turn to answer the question. [12:08] Yes, sir. [12:08] Where do you disagree? [12:09] Where do you disagree with some of President Trump's policies? [12:12] And are you an independent thinker who can actually answer that question in a way that tells the people of Michigan that you're able to disagree? [12:19] Well, Roop, if you notice, he did not answer your question, but I will. [12:23] But that's the Washington way. [12:25] You say one thing when you're in Washington, one thing when you're on TV, and do a different thing in reality. [12:31] So, do I disagree with one of President Trump's policy? [12:35] Yes. [12:35] What's called SALT, meaning state and local tax exemption, high-tax states. [12:40] People get to write that off their taxes. [12:42] Because it helps out New York, New Jersey, and California, but not Michigan. [12:47] So, I do disagree. [12:48] In terms of the 2020 election, John James quit the 2020 election and conceded it. [12:55] And it's funny that he says, I've lost. [12:58] He's never won statewide. [13:00] I won twice statewide. [13:01] I beat Gary Peters. [13:03] When Gary Peters had more money, he ran against Gary Peters with more money, and he lost. [13:10] I ran and lost in a primary. [13:11] Ladies and gentlemen, if you want us to win the primary, that doesn't matter. [13:16] We need to elect a winner in November. [13:19] That's Mike Cox, who's done it twice before. [13:21] He's failed twice. [13:22] One last thing. [13:23] One last thing. [13:24] The business he supposedly grew, he says he grew this business. [13:28] He was given $2 million by former Governor Snyder through the corrupted MEDC. [13:35] He was the pre-Fay Baidu, given $2 million to create 105 jobs. [13:40] And he did what? [13:43] Created zero jobs. [13:44] Laid off 32. [13:45] And never paid the taxpayers back the $2 million. [13:48] We have plenty more time to discuss this. [13:50] We're going to have a rebuttal from Congressman John James coming up after the break to the [13:55] points that you made. [13:56] We're also going to be hearing from Perry Johnson about what he would do if he disagreed with [14:00] President Trump. [14:01] The gubernatorial GOP debate here on Fox 2 is coming right back. [14:20] Back now on this special edition of The Pulse, a Republican gubernatorial debate with our live [14:24] studio audience. [14:25] Time now to take questions from our live studio audience. [14:27] We want to remind you that we're taking your questions at home as well. [14:30] We're going to get to that in just a moment. [14:32] You can always scan that QR code on your screen. [14:34] We want to get a rebuttal from Congressman John James right now. [14:37] Congressman. [14:38] Yeah, real quick. [14:39] That lie that Mike Cox just told, that was something that happened when I was still in [14:44] the military. [14:45] When I got out of the military, I joined the family business and I was able to build a team [14:50] to help grow the family business from what it was to what it is today. [14:54] I'm very proud of what my family has done in our community, and I'm looking forward to [14:58] using my business experience to help the state of Michigan grow. [15:02] Perry Johnson, I want to talk to you about what you would do. [15:04] As you have said before, you were friends with President Trump, someone you visited many [15:08] of times, someone who knows you well. [15:10] When you disagree with him, how would you work with him when you do disagree with him? [15:14] Well, the great thing about President Trump is that you can sit down there and reason with [15:18] him. [15:19] So when you discuss with him, he's very rational. [15:21] He will know that the most important thing in Michigan is that we have a vibrant economy [15:27] and that we look out for everybody in Michigan. [15:31] What is the number one thing that we have to do? [15:33] Well, we have to get rid of all this waste. [15:36] Let's be realistic. [15:37] We are taxed to death right now. [15:39] We have taxes, sales taxes, taxes for our gasoline, income tax, property tax, corporate tax. [15:49] Heck, pretty soon we're not going to be Michigan. [15:51] We're going to be taxed again. [15:52] And the bottom line on this thing is it has to stop. [15:56] Now, I'm the one guy in this group. [15:57] I admit I'm not a politician. [15:59] I want you to know that my ads I pay for. [16:02] John James, he's the best ever at getting money. [16:06] He's already spent $190 million in name ID, losing two elections. [16:12] And actually, it cost, I think, a record $100 million for him to try to lose against Peters. [16:19] We've never spent that kind of money. [16:20] It's all my money. [16:22] So when we talk about a self-funder, I'm the self-funder. [16:26] What does that mean? [16:27] That means I'm not beholden to anyone. [16:30] So when I'm going to lean this government, I'm doing something that I've been doing all my life. [16:35] I'm the one guy that is an expert at doing this one thing. [16:39] Now, I admit I can't fly a helicopter. [16:42] We'll all die. [16:43] But one thing that I can do is lean the government because I've been doing it all my life. [16:49] And that is what we need to do right here. [16:51] If we don't lean the government, we cannot possibly eliminate the state income tax or reform the property tax. [16:59] And it's a sin to have people 65 kicked out of their homes, effectively, because they can't afford to live there. [17:04] All right, Perry, thank you so much. [17:06] I do want to ask you a question that we have coming from our audience at home. [17:09] We have text questions coming into our control room right now. [17:12] We'll begin right now with Congressman John James. [17:14] The text question for the viewers at home, what will you do to lower Michigan gas prices right now? [17:19] Congressman. [17:20] So the first 30 seconds in addition, because my name was invoked. [17:23] Your name was invoked, sir, but they were talking about campaign fundraising, not record. [17:27] If you'd like to mention something, you may. [17:29] But we'd like to start your answer now talking about gas prices as well. [17:32] So among the things that we have to do is cut the fraud, waste, and abuse. [17:36] And specifically what we can do to cut the gas tax is look at the pork in Lansing. [17:41] Think of the $3 billion that I've already identified to cut taxes, and that's personal income taxes. [17:48] We can cut the gas tax by making sure that we go after the $20 billion more that Gretchen Whitmer is spending [17:55] than she spent during the height of the pandemic. [17:57] We can go after the 50% more that she's trying to spend than she got from Rick Snyder. [18:02] If Nick Shirley, a 19-year-old journalist, can find $9 billion of fraud in Minnesota, a state that's 50% of our size and 60% of our spending, [18:12] how much more do you think we can find by going through and looking at it? [18:15] I've already identified $3 billion to return directly to the people in the first year, [18:20] where Perry Johnson, frankly, came up with magic numbers that he admitted came from ChatGPT. [18:25] The fact of the matter is... [18:26] I did not admit anything! [18:27] That's stupid! [18:27] I mean, this is exactly... [18:28] It is stupid, Perry. [18:29] That is the dumbest... [18:29] It is actually... [18:30] Mackenaw Center actually said it would never work. [18:33] And so we are dealing with reality, we're dealing with facts, going after the waste that's already [18:38] been identified, returning money to you in the first year, and using the funding that we [18:41] already have for our infrastructure to make sure that we can actually fix our roads. [18:46] We'll get to you in a moment. [18:47] We'll give you an extra 30 seconds to address that, Perry. [18:48] But we'll begin with Mike Cox talking about this question from our viewer. [18:52] What will you do to lower Michigan gas prices? [18:54] What can you do? [18:55] A couple things. [18:57] The congressman brought up waste, fraud, and abuse. [18:59] And again, he didn't give any specifics, because that's what they do in Washington, [19:02] because they've never had to lead a government agency. [19:05] I actually shrunk the size of the attorney general's office by 21%, and we did more. [19:10] No one does that in government. [19:12] In terms of road funding, or how do we lower the price? [19:15] We're the sixth highest in the country, and we have third world roads. [19:19] So we need to, of course, go after waste, fraud, and abuse, which I did. [19:23] I saved hundreds of millions of dollars, recovered hundreds of millions of dollars in Medicaid [19:27] funding. [19:28] No one else has done that. [19:30] I actually put people in prison for defrauding the state and stealing ballots. [19:35] No one else up here has done that. [19:37] So I know how to get it done. [19:39] And I'm just not like, you know, speaking, I'm walking the walk, talking the talk. [19:44] And in terms of pork, there's no bigger pork project than the $6 billion Governor Whitmer [19:51] has spent on trying to buy jobs, instead of reducing the cost on every small business [19:55] like I started, and Perry did. [19:57] And what's ironic is that the congressman, in fact, did take $2 million in MEDC funding. [20:04] He was in the Army. [20:06] 20 seconds. [20:06] He was in the Army. [20:07] He got out in 2013, started with his family business, and for four years he was supposed [20:11] to create 105 jobs. [20:15] He laid off 32 people, and they never gave the $2 million back to the taxpayers. [20:20] That's waste, fraud, and abuse. [20:22] That's a shame. [20:23] We'll get to Congressman James with his rebuttal in a moment. [20:25] Perry Johnson, you yourself were called out by Congressman James talking a little bit about [20:29] using ChatGPT to figure out some of this stuff. [20:33] Is that true? [20:34] That's actually stupid. [20:35] But the only thing that... [20:36] But is it true? [20:38] No. [20:39] The bottom line on this is we have $1.8 billion with the MEDC that was allocated to try to [20:46] get 600 jobs. [20:48] Oh, no, to get jobs. [20:49] It was supposed to get 25,600 jobs. [20:52] It got 600 jobs. [20:54] That's $3 million per job. [20:57] That's the kind of money that John James got, $2 million. [21:00] Yes, they had to 2015 to do that, but they never bothered to do it. [21:06] John James was working there then, so Mike is right. [21:09] And the bottom line is he should return that $2 million. [21:12] But he's not going to do it because he's used to taking money. [21:17] Perry, we're going to get to Congressman in a minute here. [21:19] What would you do to lower gas prices? [21:21] You have one minute. [21:22] We have to recognize that you can't do anything in terms of eliminating taxes, including the [21:29] gas tax, until you slim the budget. [21:32] That means you need my mega audit in order to do this. [21:36] This is what I do every day. [21:38] I've been doing it for 40 years. [21:41] We are in a position to cut those taxes because our main goal here is to try to make it more [21:47] affordable for Michigan. [21:48] Now, how are you going to do that? [21:49] You can't magically say, okay, I am this great politician. [21:55] I know how to raise money so I can go and get reelected. [21:59] But you have to have somebody that has experience. [22:02] Now, I admit, Mike Cox, for example, is a great attorney. [22:07] He has experience there. [22:08] He even has a business. [22:10] I have spent my life doing one thing, bringing quality and efficiency to companies and to [22:15] the Navy and to DOD. [22:17] I want to do it to state government. [22:18] We do that, and then we can lower that tax on the gas. [22:22] Thank you, Perry Johnson. [22:23] Congressman James, a lot was said. [22:25] Your rebuttal to what you just heard. [22:27] Yeah, there's a lot there, Rup, as you mentioned. [22:29] But among the things is how hard Michigan's been hit by our jobs being shipped overseas, [22:35] and Perry Johnson outsourcing helped that. [22:37] And so when he says he's self-funding, when he says that he's funding his campaign, he's [22:44] not funding the campaign you are, from the billions that he made, shipping your jobs over [22:49] to China and Mexico. [22:50] He says he's a self-funded because he has to buy his own friends. [22:53] And frankly, to Mike Cox's point, specifically, we can cut pet projects. [22:59] That's $1.5 billion. [23:01] Improper payments, that's $0.85 billion. [23:04] That is, in cutting general funds that are unspent, that's $0.65 billion. [23:08] That's a total of $3 billion jobs in year one. [23:11] Those are specifics for you, sir. [23:13] And so when we move forward, we're actually going to have a solid plan that's not based [23:17] on fantasy, magic numbers, as Perry calls it, and understanding what it takes to bring people [23:23] together to accomplish tough missions, like I've done, as opposed to Mike Cox. [23:27] So I've responded to both of them, and we have a little more time to roll with. [23:30] Mike, go ahead. [23:31] Okay, a couple things here. [23:32] And you have one minute. [23:34] First of all, he said Whitmer grew the budget by $20 billion. [23:37] It's $30 billion. [23:39] That's $3,000 for every single Michigander. [23:42] Congressman James is so far off. [23:45] $20 billion more. [23:46] Sir, I did not. [23:47] Listen. [23:47] Rup, I thought, okay. [23:50] It's going to be a free-for-all. [23:51] No, it's not a free-for-all. [23:52] You can keep going. [23:53] Okay. [23:53] Your time's still there. [23:54] He's $10 billion off, okay? [23:56] And so his numbers don't work. [23:58] I've actually shrunk the size of a government agency. [24:00] I've actually started my own business. [24:04] The two folks here haven't done the two things. [24:06] And Perry's right. [24:07] I've started my own business. [24:08] I took on big fights. [24:10] I represented Unlocked Michigan, beat Governor Whitmer as a private citizen. [24:13] And I represented President Trump when he needed a fighter to protect his election [24:17] in 2024. [24:19] He came to me. [24:19] He knows I'm a fighter and a winner. [24:21] If you want the numbers to reduce state government, there's $6 billion that went to companies like [24:27] John's company. [24:28] There's 4,000 vacant employment slots. [24:33] There are leases. [24:34] Cadillac Place, where the governor stays, is 15% empty. [24:39] And yet there are leases all around Cadillac Place off the boulevard. [24:42] I've consolidated. [24:44] I've reorganized departments before. [24:46] And I've done less. [24:47] Mike. [24:48] I've done more with less. [24:49] And one last thing. [24:50] Well, we'll come back on the other side of the break. [24:52] And we'll let you finish your point. [24:53] Thank you. [24:54] But we do have much more ahead. [24:55] In fact, the debate is not over yet. [24:56] Our conversation continues next on our streaming platform, Fox Local. [25:00] You can go there now to watch the rest of this debate. [25:02] Scan the QR code on the right of your screen to go there right now. [25:06] Candidates will answer more of your questions, and we'll hear more from our studio audience [25:09] as well. [25:10] I'm Roo Paraj. [25:10] We'll see you in just a few minutes. [25:12] Well, it is the Republican gubernatorial debate. [25:31] We did the Democratic one, but we're so glad you're with us on this special edition of [25:35] The Pulse, streaming exclusively on Fox Local. [25:37] We should mention, by the way, we're going to be hearing from all the candidates. [25:40] You heard them say, is this a free-for-all? [25:41] It's not. [25:42] If someone starts to talk over someone, we'll let it go for a couple of seconds. [25:46] But then, if it becomes something where you can't answer the question, we'll get in there [25:50] and make sure you get your rebuttal. [25:51] And in that spirit, Mike, we want to begin with you. [25:54] Mike Cox, you were in the middle of a statement. [25:56] Yes, I will. [25:57] Thank you, Roo. [25:58] Again, Congressman James was doing the Washington way, saying one thing and doing another. [26:03] He attacked Mr. Johnson over shipping jobs overseas. [26:07] The reality is, as I announced yesterday, and people can go to jamesmadeinchina.com. [26:12] Congressman James, and I'm offended by this because I'm a child of the working class, [26:17] not the child of a CEO class. [26:20] Congressman James, while he's been a congressman, has imported 920 shipments from Japan of auto [26:27] parts that are made here in Michigan and across the Midwest. [26:30] He did it to put profits over people. [26:34] As your governor, I won't sell you out like that, and I won't lie to you like that, [26:39] and I will look out for manufacturing jobs, not cooperate with the Communist Chinese Party [26:45] in order to line my pockets like Congressman James has. [26:48] And that is an accusation, and one that we'll get to. [26:50] That absolutely is, 100%. [26:51] One we'll get to. [26:52] I'm here to speak out for those who've had family members' jobs like mine, [26:57] who have been outsourced by people like John James. [26:59] And, Mike, we're going to get to Congressman James with his response. [27:02] But first, Perry Johnson, you have a lot to say about what was said about you. [27:06] Please. [27:06] Bottom line is, I have not outsourced a single job to China in my life. [27:13] I have not imported a single thing in my life. [27:17] We know that John has imported nearly a billion dollars. [27:22] That is on the website. [27:23] You can go to Mike's website. [27:25] It's a fact. [27:26] I have spent my entire life actually bringing quality and efficiency [27:30] to the state of Michigan in the automobile industry. [27:34] When he was in diapers, I was out there helping to save the automobile industry. [27:39] I have spent my entire life bringing quality and efficiency to companies [27:43] across this state and across the entire country. [27:47] Because that's my focus. [27:49] I am focused on one simple thing, and that is bringing efficiency to our state. [27:54] First, we have to get rid of the fraud, waste, and abuse so we can eliminate the state income tax [28:00] and reform the property tax. [28:03] We have to eliminate the property tax for those over 65. [28:06] It's not fair that they can't afford to be in their home because the government has decided [28:12] to abuse all of their money and throw it away. [28:15] It's time that we realize that just one thing alone, let's take the MEDC, $1.8 billion was spent [28:22] on the MEDC, and in that MEDC, they created literally 600 jobs or $3 million per job, [28:30] and John James was part of that group. [28:33] No way around it. [28:34] Now, I will lean the government with no one leaning on me. [28:38] Perry Johnson, thank you. [28:39] Congressman James, you heard Mike Cox talk about what he calls these connections to China [28:44] with your company. [28:46] You heard Perry Johnson allude to some other accusations. [28:49] They say they have receipts. [28:51] Are these receipts correct or incorrect? [28:53] They're incorrect. [28:54] We work for Ford Motor Company, General Motors. [28:56] Our company focuses on exporting parts so we keep our jobs here. [29:02] Look, you didn't come here to see a bunch of grown men bicker, so I'm going to be focusing [29:06] on the issues, focusing on the disciplines that it takes to actually grow jobs in the state [29:11] of Michigan, coming out of the Great Recession, and I'm excited about the opportunity we have [29:16] to grow opportunity for you by cutting taxes, cutting regulations, and cutting, frankly, [29:22] the insurance cartels that we have in the state of Michigan. [29:26] I'm excited for the opportunity we have and to answer the questions that the people have. [29:30] Nothing of the accusations that were brought about by the Cox campaign are true at all. [29:34] Yeah, no, when he went outside and, frankly, disrespected my workforce yesterday, that was [29:39] actually a facility that has been exporting American-made parts to be shipped all over [29:46] the world to be bought, opening additional markets, and that's what I've been working [29:50] on, opening additional markets for automotive, opening additional markets for agriculture so [29:55] that they buy our goods, not the other way around. [29:57] Congressman, thank you. [29:58] So I work for General Motors and Ford, just like a lot of folks, and, frankly, my, yeah, [30:03] go ahead. [30:04] Your time is up. [30:05] Yeah, sure. [30:06] And, Mike, I know you want a rebuttal to the rebuttal, and you can talk about what you [30:09] believe really happened here in a moment, but we have to get to our audience questions [30:12] as well. [30:13] So mark that note, and let's get to our audience questions. [30:15] We begin with Andrea Beitely from Lansing. [30:17] Andrea. [30:18] Thank you. [30:19] This question is for Attorney General Cox. [30:20] Yes. [30:21] What will you do as governor to reform the MEDC as well as continue to regain and strengthen [30:25] Michigan's business climate? [30:27] Well, first and foremost, I would lower the cost for every small business. [30:32] I was the first one to propose an income tax cut. [30:35] And, Andrea, you run a small business, so you know that 900,000 small businessmen and [30:39] women here in Michigan create two-thirds of all new jobs. [30:43] That's the one thing I learned from the past 15 years as a small business owner. [30:47] I would unleash those folks. [30:49] When you eliminate the income tax, like Tennessee has and Florida and other states, you do unleash [30:56] immense economic activity driven by small businesses. [31:00] They get to invest in a new pizza oven. [31:02] They get to a new tool and dye shop. [31:03] They add a new piece of machinery. [31:06] And Andrea, since we're both small businessmen and women, I would not try to buy jobs like [31:12] the MEDC has because it didn't work with Congressman James' company. [31:17] They tried to buy jobs and then ended up in layoffs. [31:20] And the money was never paid up. [31:21] I'm all about lowering the burden on every small business, lowering the taxation rate, [31:26] and then let the winners figure out who they are. [31:29] That's the American way. [31:31] That's the American dream. [31:32] When I started my business, no one paid me to pay my first employee. [31:37] No one paid my salary. [31:39] No one paid me for my first lease. [31:42] And my wife had to borrow against our savings to do that. [31:45] That's the way it works. [31:47] And that will unleash and create a beautiful and better Michigan. [31:50] Congressman James. [31:51] Thank you for the question, Andrea. [31:52] He invoked your name but also talked about your record. [31:54] Yeah. [31:55] I'll just say the more you lie doesn't make it more true the more you lie. [32:01] So let's get on to the topics of the facts that people want to hear. [32:03] Well, on the contrary. [32:04] On the contrary. [32:05] Sir, are you going to say that you didn't import 920 different shipments between the [32:11] time you took office up through Memorial Day? [32:13] Please don't address the other candidates. [32:16] If you believe that that's the truth, we can ask that we can address that question. [32:19] I'll ask you. [32:20] Can you ask John James if in fact he's never imported products from China? [32:25] Mike, I made it clear. [32:26] And we've asked the question. [32:28] This is James' time. [32:29] John, I want to ask you the question. [32:32] Anything that you're hearing right now. [32:35] You're saying all of it is false. [32:37] I know you're saying there's more important topics to talk about. [32:40] They've been flooding the zone with BS for the past half hour. [32:44] What do you want me to address about what's false? [32:47] About the fact that Mike Cox doesn't know the beginning of the automotive industry and [32:51] he's asserting that something that's not true about the facility went out there or maybe [32:56] what Perry doesn't literally have a company called Perry Johnson outsourcing and he's denying. [33:00] I mean the flooding the zone with inaccuracies is exactly what they're here to do and I [33:05] said this in my opening statement that they will resort to deceit and defamation to throw [33:11] the people off the scent. [33:12] The fact of the matter is. [33:13] I'll tell you. [33:14] I'll bet him $5 million. [33:15] Of people's money you stole. [33:17] Why not? [33:18] Everybody hear this. [33:19] $5 million. [33:20] Perry Johnson outsourcing is a company that exists only. [33:24] Perry, this is part of your rebuttal time right now. [33:27] You can finish your statement quickly. [33:29] Only in India for India and it doesn't exist. [33:33] It does no work. [33:35] Guys, I have to move on to this question. [33:37] What group respect is it for you but it doesn't exist? [33:39] I have never found. [33:40] Got it. [33:41] Mike, you have 30 seconds and then we've got to move on. [33:42] I won't have made you $20 million. [33:43] We've got to move on. [33:44] Perry, we've got to move on to Mike. [33:45] Perry, we've got to move on to Mike. [33:46] Ever. [33:47] Perry, thank you. [33:48] Mike, go ahead. [33:49] 30 seconds. [33:50] This will settle one thing. [33:51] No one's ever accused me of exporting American jobs and outsourcing. [33:56] But the reality is he did the Washington Way thing again, Roop, which is he didn't ask the [34:01] direct question. [34:02] Did you ever import products from China? [34:06] And he refuses to answer that because the answer is yes. [34:09] He doesn't want to admit it to all the auto workers. [34:11] The answer is no. [34:12] He said I don't know anything about manufacturing. [34:16] I do. [34:17] Mike, thank you. [34:18] Listen, one thing I'll tell you right now. [34:20] The answer is no. [34:21] Mike, he just said the answer is no. [34:24] He does it. [34:25] Mike. [34:26] No, no. [34:27] That's General Motors and Ford. [34:28] I answered his question directly. [34:29] Mike, Congressman, Perry, I want to tell you one thing. [34:30] The one thing we get on The Pulse is the pulse of what people are sick of. [34:32] Right. [34:33] You know what they're sick of? [34:34] They're sick of people screaming and yelling. [34:35] All of you. [34:36] All three of you. [34:37] Here's the bottom line. [34:38] There are people who are wondering right now about data centers. [34:41] The majority of people on the other side of the camera don't care as much about some [34:45] of the dollars and cents we're talking about with these companies. [34:47] They care a lot about these data centers. [34:49] My question to you, and we'll begin with Perry Johnson this time. [34:52] Do you believe AI data centers have a place in Michigan? [34:55] And have you and would you accept any money from an AI data center company? [35:00] Perry? [35:02] I haven't accepted any money from anyone. [35:04] And as you know, John James has accepted $107,000 from the people building the data centers [35:12] and accepted $39,000 from the people powering the data centers. [35:16] I was out there demonstrating against the data centers when they had the demonstration in Lansing, [35:22] which is why the activists endorsed me. [35:25] The bottom line is with the data center is quite simple. [35:28] They have no OSHA requirements right now. [35:31] We have no idea what the damage is. [35:33] We do know for a fact that the sound rays damage babies, and we don't know what's going to happen [35:38] with data centers in six or seven years because AI is moving at exponential rates. [35:43] And because of that, we may not even need the data centers that we're building in six or seven years. [35:48] What I did make very, very clear was that in these data centers, we have to recognize that we should never be subsidizing [35:56] because we have the best environment anyone could ever want. [36:00] We have the most coastline in the entire country, and we have a relatively cool climate, which is ideal for these data centers. [36:07] I wanted a one-year moratorium on all data centers so we can sit back, investigate, find out what's going on. [36:14] Because the bottom line is we can't jump into everything and then suddenly say, oh, I'm sorry. [36:21] Congressman John James, have you or would you accept money from an AI company or a data center in your campaign? [36:27] Yeah, no. My priorities is, frankly, local control, protecting our water, protecting and preventing pollution, [36:37] making sure that electricity bills do not go up, and also making sure that we prioritize blighted and brownfields over productive green farmland. [36:46] That would be my moratorium. That would be our standard. [36:50] We absolutely cannot have an additional data center until we protect the people and the communities. [36:56] That's no NDAs. That's making sure we don't have the ground, air, and water pollution, and also the noise pollution, [37:03] and making sure that, again, we protect local control, no NDAs. [37:07] Michigan is open for business, but we're not for sale. [37:09] We need to absolutely make sure that our ag and automotive industries are growing, [37:12] but we also need to make sure that we are participating in leading the fight with tech and energy and hospitality and maritime and defense. [37:20] We can do that, but we need to make sure that when we do that, we're not doing it at the expense of Michigan. [37:26] Mike Cox, would you accept money from an AI company or a data center? [37:30] And where do you see data centers in our state? [37:33] Well, first and foremost, I never have. Okay. [37:36] Secondly. [37:37] Would you in the future? [37:38] No. Secondly, I'm all about let the people decide, not politicians. [37:44] I'm the only one. I'm not calling names. [37:47] I'm the only one who's ever fought big utilities and saved ratepayers over $3 billion, one for the people of Michigan. [37:54] I'm the only one who's ever sued and fought with big tech, and one for the people of Michigan. [37:59] And so I will put a priority on local communities to decide what they want. [38:04] And then if they decide, then we make sure that, as the state, as the governor of the PSC, [38:11] that any new electricity is paid for by the data center. [38:15] And that, of course, that they meet all the environmental requirements. [38:19] As attorney general, I fought to clean up our air water. [38:22] I fought Asian carp. [38:24] I fought ballast water dumping into our Great Lakes. [38:28] And I won against the federal government, ultimately on both of those. [38:31] And I would do that again. [38:32] Again, I'm for the people deciding, not politicians. [38:35] We have a question coming from our text that we have, of course, up right now, flooded with text messages right now on our streaming. [38:42] This person saying, how are you going to reach voters who are fed up with traditional politics? [38:47] And I got to tell you, my friends, the reason I say you can't have rebuttals to rebuttals to rebuttals is because people are sick of the bickering. [38:53] They want to know answers. [38:54] They want to have solutions. [38:55] Congressman John James, what would you do to break the traditional political cycle of infighting and getting nothing done a lot of times in Washington? [39:04] Yeah. [39:05] Lead by example. [39:06] I've done that my entire life. [39:08] I was raised by a pair of Democrats from the Jim Crow South who taught me to love everyone and fight for everyone for justice. [39:15] And frankly, that was what helped me to accomplish tough and dangerous missions when I deployed to Iraq. [39:20] It's what helped me come back and grow our family business, working with anyone and everyone, [39:25] because folks at our company only cared about how we could help grow our community and keep our families on the same health care insurance that my children are on. [39:34] And then right now, working across the aisle, I'm being attacked for working across the aisle, [39:39] but working across the aisle to, frankly, have an anti-human trafficking bill signed by one president and an anti-Biden era EV mandate signed by President Trump just last year. [39:49] I can work with anyone and everyone who will help make 10 million people in the state of Michigan more prosperous. [39:56] And I think that leadership, proven, experienced leadership in a diverse background where bullets are flying to coming out of the recession when people needed hope, [40:05] that's the type of example that we need to change the philosophy, change the culture, and change the environment in Michigan for the better to the benefit every single one of us, [40:14] regardless of what we look like or where we came from. [40:16] Perry Johnson, what would you do to change the dynamics of our political norms right now? [40:22] Well, you notice that John James specifically did not say he was going to refund the $107,000 given to him by the people building the data centers, [40:33] nor the 39,000 that was given to him by the people powering the data centers. [40:38] That's what our politicians do. [40:40] I think we need to focus on the issues. [40:42] What are the real issues? [40:44] The issues right now are economic. [40:46] We have to be realistic right now. [40:48] If we do not slim our government, the nuttiness of spend, $1 billion because we're going to try to increase the spate of the Amtrak train by 10% and not even succeed, [40:59] $1 billion because we're going to try to ameliorate the quality of reading and writing for our kids that are fourth grade and under, [41:07] and we went from 26th in the country to 44th in the country as a result. [41:11] $1.8 billion because of the MEDC nuttiness of which, of course, he got $2 million. [41:18] But the bottom line on this all is that we have to recognize that the issues at hand demand that we take a look at trying to lean our government. [41:27] We have to realize that you need to go in there, get rid of the fraud and abuse so we can eliminate the state income tax, ignite the state, reform the property tax so the people 65 and older can continue to live in their home without paying that property tax. [41:44] That's the key. [41:45] We have three men who are really smart on stage and I should point something out to you. [41:49] Every time you talk about another person's record on stage, you're handing them the chance to answer the question and perhaps make another point. [41:56] So be judicious with your time as we continue in our second half hour. [41:59] But I do want to give Congressman John James a chance to rebut that. [42:03] The $107,000 that Perry Johnson is saying came from AI data centers to you. [42:09] You deny that? [42:10] I've gotten, frankly, investments from 8,000 Michiganders all over the state who are bought in this campaign. [42:19] I don't have to buy my friends, Perry. [42:21] Frankly, one of the donations I'm most proud of is 50 bucks from alignment. [42:25] I've gotten money from homeschool parents because people want to have a state that they continue to stay in and grow in. [42:32] People have believed in this mission, which is the reason why they've gotten behind me. [42:37] I'm up double digits in the polls and President Trump's endorsed. [42:40] I'm here because I want to talk about the facts and, frankly, I would love to get on with the debate, sir. [42:46] Mike, go ahead. [42:47] Well, you asked both of them about stopping bickering and can you work across the aisle? [42:53] Yes. [42:54] The reality is, and you're not going to like this, Roop, but Congressman James, there's been 10 prior debates. [43:00] He didn't show up for any of them. [43:02] So a lot of it is pent up. [43:04] You know, let's get to the answers. [43:06] Here's the reality. [43:08] I worked with John James. [43:09] I found his first campaign office in my building. [43:12] I gave him thousands of dollars each and every time he ran, and he lost. [43:19] That's the reality. [43:20] Michigan wants a fighter who can win. [43:23] Republicans want a fighter who can win. [43:25] By the way, I was a single parent for seven years. [43:28] So when I got in office, I dealt with fighting for issues that single parents did. [43:34] And that's what animated what I did. [43:36] They're not generally Republicans. [43:38] I worked in the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office. [43:41] The only Republican there. [43:42] And Mike Duggan, Mike Duggan promoted me to run the homicide unit because I got things done. [43:48] But you know what? [43:49] We need to fight in order to get some wins for Michigan. [43:52] We need to fight and bring some competency. [43:54] And someone who's actually done something in their life instead of being handed it. [43:58] I fight, I win, and I build teams. [44:01] Did it with Democrats? [44:03] Did it with Republicans? [44:04] That's how I won two very tough statewide races. [44:07] Because I can talk to independents and Democrats. [44:10] Congressman, you're the one who said you want to get on with the debate. [44:12] We have other questions. [44:13] But if you want to rebut not showing up to other debates, you're more than welcome to do so. [44:16] Yeah, the last one was when I was voting for the farm bill. [44:21] Look, these two gentlemen would troll Jesus and say he couldn't swim because he walked on water. [44:27] And who am I? [44:28] I would expect attacks from these gentlemen when I'm focused on doing my job for the people of the 10th Congressional District. [44:34] I've delivered for the people of the 10th Congressional District. [44:37] I've won twice in southeast Michigan. [44:40] And I'm excited to continue to win for you. [44:43] Again, this is all coming from a guy who came in third, his last primary, lost. [44:49] And he was first elected. [44:51] He was last elected 20 years ago before the iPhone. [44:54] So again, you keep flooding the zone with lies that doesn't make them any more true. [45:00] We're going to be focused on the things that people in Michigan want. [45:02] We have a question from our audience from Jamie Rowe from Macomb Township. [45:05] Jamie, what's your question? [45:07] Great. [45:08] Yeah, it's for Perry Johnson. [45:10] Saw you last week at the southeast Michigan Chamber of Commerce in Warren. [45:13] Macomb County is the center of the universe in this election. [45:17] And just want to ask you, how would you say your life experiences connects you with the needs that we have in Macomb County? [45:25] And how are you going to help us move the county forward? [45:29] Well, as many of you know, I grew up in a 600-square-foot home. [45:34] I had to work my way through college. I did. [45:39] There were times I could not afford a sub-sandwich, but I got through. [45:43] I know what it is to feel pain. [45:45] Yes, I've been very fortunate. [45:47] I got a break in the auto industry. [45:49] And the auto industry was hurting. [45:51] This was around 1980. [45:53] And I thought I knew how to correct the problem. [45:56] And I've spent my entire life bringing quality and efficiency to a variety of companies in all areas. [46:02] I've obviously came up with the idea of having a quality standard. [46:08] I wrote a book on that. [46:09] It electrified the world. [46:11] And I have been using that all over the world. [46:14] That's why I want my mega audit. [46:16] My audit for Michigan efficiency. [46:19] And I've been using that to help me, because we need to lean the government. [46:21] Now, I'm beholding to no one. [46:23] I don't have to go and do a favor for somebody because they donated to my campaign. [46:30] You know, I'm going to lean the government and no one is going to be leaning on me. [46:35] And the beauty of this is I didn't allow anyone to donate. [46:38] I didn't put up even a site to donate. [46:41] Because I want everybody to recognize I'm doing this for my kids, for my family. [46:47] I want them to stay here. [46:49] I'm the one person that has the experience and background to lean our government so we can eliminate the income tax and reform the property tax. [46:57] I want to get to Mike Cox. [46:58] Mike, we have a text question that's coming in that allows you to set the tone for the rest of the ten minutes we have left here. [47:04] And talk about what you would do. [47:06] Now, what others haven't done or have done, all three of you should be focusing on yourselves. [47:10] What is your first priority in office if you were to become governor? [47:14] Thank you. [47:15] I advise everyone to go to my website, Mike Cox 2026, where I've had 60 pages of ideas for the past year and a half. [47:23] What would I do on the very first day? [47:25] The very first day I get sworn in, I walk across the street. [47:28] I go to the governor's office and I sign Michigan into the Trump school choice tax credit. [47:34] After that, I'd order all state employees back to work because you ought to be able to find public servants in public places. [47:41] I would order all the MSP in all state, anyone who relies on state funding for law enforcement to cooperate with ICE, the DEA, FBI. [47:52] I spent 13 years in the city of Detroit. [47:54] We used all of them to solve crimes in the city of Detroit and make Michigan safer. [47:59] What else would I do? [48:00] I'd do two things. [48:01] I'd issue an order, which you can as governor under Article 5 of the Constitution, to call a special session of the House and Senate to begin on January 12th. [48:11] Because that's the first day they begin. [48:13] And the special session would be to address two issues. [48:15] Eliminating the income tax, which I love Perry for adopting it and advertising it, but I was the first one to bring it up. [48:21] And second is to fix Michigan education by following the reforms that my granddaughters have benefited in the state of Mississippi, [48:31] where they get a better education than the kids in my neighborhood in Livonia, Michigan. [48:34] Teaching phonics, grading, make sure every third grader, like my autistic granddaughter, could read in order to be promoted, [48:42] and grading every public schools. [48:44] Those things are the things I love to talk about, and I wish we could do this a lot longer. [48:49] Thank you, Mike. [48:50] Thank you. [48:51] Listen, we have more questions coming to us on text. [48:53] Just flood it over there. [48:54] We also have a studio audience ready to ask questions. [48:56] We have one for John James and our studio audience. [48:59] We have Kerry Leon Jackson. [49:00] And Kerry, we thank you for joining us here. [49:02] If you're talking to the mic and tell us what your question is for Congressman James. [49:06] Congressman, I've tried to get a hold of many politicians to voice my concerns, including you. [49:11] And I feel like responses aren't always treated with the urgency they deserve. [49:16] What will you do to truly listen and respond to your constituents should you win? [49:23] Well, thank you so much for that question. [49:25] First, we need to change the culture. [49:27] Customer service-obsessed culture in Lansing. [49:30] Just like I've done with my business, just like I've done with my official office with our team. [49:35] With our team, we've returned $20 million to people in the 10th congressional district of money from the federal government. [49:42] We've helped them with everything from passports to getting into the VA. [49:46] That's the level of customer service that I expect, and that's the level of customer service that you should demand. [49:51] I'm excited for one story. [49:53] We got a Facebook message, and we responded to it within 10 minutes. [49:58] By making sure that the MEDC is totally reformed. [50:02] Making sure that EGLE is totally reformed. [50:05] Making sure that the entire government is focused on you. [50:08] By focusing on access to capital, access to contracts, and a concierge approach to compliance. [50:17] Those are the ways that we're going to help businesses, large and small, to be able to grow, [50:22] and focusing on creating 10 jobs, 15 jobs, 20 jobs, 100 jobs in the organic way, focusing on retention. [50:29] And so for the individual citizen, we're going to keep on focusing on customer service. [50:33] That's how I helped my family grow our family business, and that's how I've served the people of the 10th congressional district, [50:39] and I'm excited to take that culture forward to Lansing. [50:42] We have a question for all three of you coming from Abby Mitch in our studio audience. [50:46] For all three, Abby, go ahead. [50:49] Explain your approach to the state budget process and how you will build a coalition of legislators that will champion your priorities in the legislature. [50:56] We'll begin with Perry and go down the line. [50:58] There are two issues involved. [51:01] The first issue is the money that's allocated. [51:03] The second issue is the civilian workforce that works every day and works in every administration. [51:09] When you allocate, right now they fight over how much they're going to allocate, [51:13] and you go through the fighting process because that's politics. [51:17] That's what they do over there in Congress all the time. [51:20] What we need to do is have a way of getting the actual civilian workforce that's working every day to be more efficient, [51:27] so that we don't have to spend every penny in that budget. [51:31] We're in a position where we can do something like that, and you work with the civilian workforce to lean it. [51:36] Now, my secret, very simple. [51:40] I have a mega audit, a Michigan efficiency government audit. [51:43] I know it starts by having a meeting of 12 people. [51:47] There are always 12 people. [51:48] I tell everybody I need 10% off the budget. [51:51] Everybody says they can't do it in the beginning. [51:54] I tell them the guy that comes up with it, he'll end up being or she'll end up being the boss. [51:58] And it's amazing how that works. [52:00] But we are going to have to lean our government. [52:03] It's not just the people in Washington allocating money or the people that we have in Congress here allocating money. [52:10] It's how do we run the operations so that they are more efficient. [52:15] And that's the key. [52:16] Perry, thank you. [52:18] And I want to invite all our candidates to remember we only have a very few short minutes left. [52:21] So anything that you claim about the other candidate is going to be a rebuttal. [52:25] So you were just taking away time from yourself. [52:27] So focus on yourself. [52:28] Congressman John James, please, Abby Mitch's question. [52:32] Yes, of course. [52:33] We're going to do the budget process the way we did it in business. [52:36] I believe that we should be taking a look at zero-based budgeting. [52:40] The fraud, waste and abuse has to be looked at from the bottom up and the top down. [52:45] Working with subject matter experts and recognizing that everything that's there is from the Whitmer [52:51] administration and most of it is waste to begin with. [52:54] As I stated, Gretchen Whitmer is spending $20 billion more than she spent during the height of the pandemic. [53:01] And she's asking for 50% more than she got from the Snyder administration. [53:06] Do you feel like your rows are 50% better? [53:08] How about your schools? [53:09] These things aren't 50% better. [53:11] And so by going back and seeing exactly what we need, frankly, and cutting the things that we don't [53:16] and incentivizing whistleblowers, protecting them because they know where it is. [53:20] I've already been working with the House leadership in Lansing and also House oversight in Lansing, [53:26] and we're working on concrete ideas for how we actually execute this so we'll be ready on day one. [53:33] 20 seconds. [53:34] I've pulled together tough teams before, and we've executed mission from combat to business [53:39] to serving the people of the 10th Congressional District. [53:41] And that experienced leadership is what you can expect from me over the next four years. [53:45] Mike? [53:46] Well, thank you, and thank you, Abby, for that question. [53:49] The budget undeniably has grown from $56.8 billion up to $86.6, almost $30 billion. [53:57] So we're obviously going to have to go after waste, fraud, and abuse. [54:00] And that's what I did as Attorney General, recovering, prosecuting offenders, recovering Medicaid monies, hundreds of millions of dollars. [54:07] That was my MO. That's what I did. [54:10] But, Abby, I would take this legal pad, which I did when I was an AG, and I shrunk the size of the office by 21%, [54:17] and every year return money back to the Treasury. [54:21] I would take this legal pad, and I'd look at every line item. [54:24] I'd look at it with my budget director, with the folks in the legislature. [54:28] 20 seconds. [54:29] And I would create a brand-new budget. [54:31] Here's the reality. [54:32] I was AG when there was a Democrat House, Senate, and a Democrat governor. [54:38] We built budgets by delivering on what we said while we were shrinking the size of government. [54:44] And there's so much to get to, and all of your answers, and so much discussion that is yet to be had. [54:48] We could begin, of course, to scratch the surface and help people at home. [54:51] Mike Cox, Congressman John James, Perry Johnson, thank you all for your time. [54:55] And we want to thank you for joining us on this special edition of The Pulse. [54:58] This entire debate will be posted soon on our site. [55:00] You better believe it'll be shared many, many times. [55:03] And don't forget, the Democratic candidates for Senate will be right here in Studio C July 27th. [55:07] If you miss any of this debate or our conversation, all you have to do is go to Fox2Detroit.com