Michigan GOP Governor's debate

[0:00] edition of The Pulse, the Republican gubernatorial debate. Live from our Fox 2 studios, here is [0:06] Rup Raj. And good evening and welcome to Studio C as the sprint to the August primary kicks into [0:11] high gear. We're so glad you're with us. You know, you saw our conversation with Democratic [0:15] candidate for governor Chris Swanson last month. Jocelyn Benson was invited to debate with two [0:20] months notice, but declined to appear here. Now it's the Republicans' turn. And we should mention [0:24] this debate is an hour long. The first half hour is on both Fox 2 and our streaming platform [0:29] Fox Local. The second half is exclusively on Fox Local. So have your phone ready. We'll have a QR [0:35] code at the end of the first half hour that'll take you right to the stream so you can watch the second [0:40] half right there. Now the candidates will take questions from our audience and you at home as [0:44] well. You can scan the QR code on your screen or text it to 248-200-5042. So many of the questions [0:52] have to do with topics that many of you at home are wondering about. Now for the rules. Candidates [0:56] will get a one-minute opening statement and up to a minute 30 to answer questions that I ask. [1:02] The candidates will not address each other with questions, but if statements are made about another [1:07] candidate on stage explicitly about a policy point or a direct accusation, that candidate will get up [1:13] to a one-minute rebuttal. I want to welcome the three Republican candidates for governor of the great [1:18] state of Michigan, John James, Mike Cox, and Perry Johnson. Welcome to tonight's debate. Congressman [1:23] James, you get the first opening statement here tonight. Well, thanks, Rube. It's an honor to be [1:28] here. It's an honor to be endorsed by the president, and it's an honor to speak directly to you tonight. [1:33] I'm excited and I'm running because I love Michigan. I'm doing this for my kids and for yours. [1:39] Michigan's on fire, and I've always run toward the fire. As a combat veteran who answered the call [1:44] after 9-11 in defense of this country, as a business leader who's developed and grown jobs in the [1:49] city of Detroit and the state of Michigan, and is somebody who deployed to the swamp to push back [1:54] on the Marxist woke agenda in my first term and stand up with President Trump to make America great [1:59] again in the second term. But right now, after seven and a half years of Gretchen Whitmer, we have higher [2:05] taxes. We have high electricity bills. Our kids can't read and criminals are back out on the street, [2:09] but we can fix that. And we can work together to lower taxes, to bring our jobs back and fix our roads. [2:16] Tonight, you're going to hear a lot of things. I'm going to be focusing on you. My opponent's going [2:21] to be focused on me. So while we're attacking the issues, they're going to be attacking me [2:25] because, frankly, resorting to deceit and defamation is what they do because they're desperate. [2:31] We're going to be focusing on what it's going to take to make life for you better because [2:35] Michigan's made for more. I'm excited, and the best is yet to come. Congressman John James, [2:39] thank you. Mike Cox, Mr. Cox, you have one minute. Thank you, Roop. My dad was a carpenter. [2:46] My mom was a maid. They came to Michigan because Michigan, they could buy their own home in a safe [2:52] neighborhood with good schools. And they knew that each and every one of their kids could do [2:56] better than them. Too many parents now can't say that. Too many parents now cannot say that. [3:02] We need a leader who can win and beat the Democrats and change the seven long years of darkness we've [3:08] had under Governor Whitmer. You know, my parents weren't rich, but they taught me a few things. [3:14] They taught me to fight hard, to work hard, and to go fight for the things I believed in. That's [3:20] why I joined the Marine Corps. That's why I spent 13 years in the city of Detroit as a homicide [3:24] prosecutor. And then when I was Attorney General, I fought for people like my mom and dad and people [3:29] like you all. I fought big utilities, and I won. I fought big pharma, and I won. I fought Blue Cross, [3:38] and I won. And won for all of us. We need a winner, someone who can beat Democrats statewide. [3:43] I'm the only one running who's actually done that before. Vote for Mike Cox, and we will win again [3:49] together again. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, Mike. Perry Johnson, you have one minute for [3:54] your opening statement tonight. I've spent my entire life bringing quality and efficiency to [3:59] organizations. Navy, DOD, and over 60,000 companies. I want to take that skill set and bring quality and [4:08] efficiency to the state of Michigan. Right now, we're taxed to death, and we want to have a realization [4:16] that if we go and use my mega audit, Michigan efficiency government audit, we will be able [4:23] to clean up that waste and eliminate the state income tax, reform the property tax, which will be [4:30] $4,747 every year to every typical family in Michigan. 20 seconds, sir. I have three boys, [4:38] 217, 121. I want them to stay in the state. I know that I am an outsider, and I know that the [4:46] bottom line is I'm funding my own campaign. I'm beholding to no one, and I'm a person that will [4:52] not be in a position where I have to yield to anyone, because I know that I have to solve the [4:59] problem with my own money, and realize right now, we're going to make Michigan great again. [5:05] Mr. Johnson, Congressman Mike Cox, thank you all for joining us and for your opening statements, [5:10] and now we begin the round of questions that so many people at home have come to ask us to ask you, [5:16] and there are so many issues and topics that matter. Republicans and Democrats alike are wondering, [5:21] we'll begin with Congressman John James. If President Trump enacted a policy that was to hurt [5:25] the state of Michigan, how would you push back? Congressman? Well, the president and I have a [5:31] great relationship, which is why he endorsed me. I would pick up the phone and I'd call the [5:35] president, and I think a governor who has the relationship to be able to do that, not just [5:38] call the president, but call on secretaries, especially for a state that gets 40 percent of [5:42] his budget from the federal sources, making sure that we bring more resources back to the state of [5:47] Michigan is exactly how we're going to make sure we're at the front of the line and not [5:51] continuously at the back. Right now, we need to fix our roads. We need to fix our schools, [5:55] and we need to make sure that we're doing these things and having the relationships that I've [5:59] developed with the president and other folks in Congress is what we're going to need to make [6:04] sure that Michigan can continue to punch above our weight. I'm excited to continue to work with [6:09] the president, as I have on securing the border. I'm the only one up here who's actually cut your [6:13] taxes with the working family tax cuts. On day one, I'm going to opt into the education freedom tax [6:19] credits and continuing to work with the president to make Michigan great again. Thank you, Congressman. [6:23] Mike Cox, how would you fight back if President Trump was to impose something that you thought [6:28] was bad for Michigan? Well, Roop, I'm a fighter and I'm a winner. Here's the reality. I fought [6:34] Jennifer Granholm when she did the wrong things. I don't need the president's endorsement to be a [6:40] fighter and winner for the people of Michigan. You know, it's interesting. Congressman James seems [6:44] very defensive, even despite having the president's endorsement. Perhaps because the last two times, [6:49] he had the president's endorsement. He squandered it and lost. At the end of the day, Michigan [6:55] Republicans need to nominate and elect a winner. I would speak to the president. I would talk to [7:00] the president's folks and would reason with them. The reality is the president respect winners, [7:05] which I've won statewide office twice. He respects people who built their own business. I built my own [7:10] business instead of being a trust fund baby, a NEPO baby. He respects winners and I will win and fight [7:17] for the people of Michigan. That's my MO. I'm a Marine, a homicide prosecutor. And as AG, I fought [7:22] for working folks each and every day and they know they can trust me. Perry Johnson, I know that [7:28] you say you're also friends with President Trump. Sometimes that makes things tougher. How would [7:32] you fight back if the president was to impose something that you knew could hurt the people [7:36] of Michigan? Well, first of all, I find it very unlikely that is ever going to happen. And I would sit [7:41] there and reason with him, talk about logically what in the heck is going on. I wouldn't just [7:46] arbitrarily say, oh, well, this is going to be bad for Michigan. What is it that he could do that [7:50] would be so bad for Michigan? Let's be realistic. Our whole goal in Michigan is to try to revitalize [7:56] our economy. People are hurting. I can feel the pain. What we need in Michigan is a situation where we [8:03] can eliminate the state income tax, bring $4,747 to every family in Michigan every year. Understand [8:12] that when we ignite our state, the impact is monumental. Every single state in the union that [8:21] has eliminated the income tax without exception has ignited that state. When you have an economy [8:27] that is booming, it's amazing what goes on. Because right now, let's be realistic. We have two things [8:33] that must be done. We must eliminate the state income tax and reform the property tax because we [8:39] have to have people that are feeling really good. Nothing in this world is more painful than when you [8:46] don't have the money to buy food for your kids. When you have to make a decision over whether I can [8:52] afford food or books, it's a sin. That is the kind of thing that we have to avoid. So I'm going to do [9:00] everything in my power to make sure that Michigan thrives. I want our education system to thrive. [9:06] I want it to be safe. And I want everyone in this entire state to feel that things are booming. [9:13] That is where I'm going to have my focus. And that's where I'm going to have my discussion [9:17] with President Trump. And I think he and I are in the same way. Thank you. Thank you, [9:21] Mr. Johnson. Congressman James, I do want to kind of follow up on that because there are so many people [9:25] who are Republican and we've spoken to on this program who say, man, I wish we could figure out [9:30] a way to disagree with President Trump and still not be disagreeable and still be a United Party. [9:36] Is there a policy point or something where you break from this president with? Well, first of all, [9:42] Rup, hopefully I get an additional 30 seconds according to the rules because my name was invoked [9:45] by Mr. Copps. But first and foremost, I am the walking result of the American dream. My family came [9:51] from the Jim Crow South for a better life to Michigan. But now because of the terrible policies, [9:56] the Whitmer administration is looking like my children may have to leave to find the American [10:00] dream. We're going to change that direction. He called me a trust fund baby. I call that the walking [10:05] result of the American dream and what's possible in the state of Michigan. My parents have not given [10:09] me anything. Me and my brother and my sister worked and we bought them out. Frankly, I've never been [10:15] given anything when I graduated West Point, when I got my two master's degrees, when I deployed [10:19] to Operation Iraqi Freedom and brought all my men weapons and equipment back home safely, [10:23] when I grew my company. And frankly, it's shameful that this man would insinuate that I was anything [10:29] other than a hard worker. Frankly, he would also probably say that President Trump lost in 2020 [10:34] when the election was rigged. I wonder if he'd admit to that. But the fact of the matter is, [10:39] Mike Cox hasn't won an election since, goodness, before the iPhone was invented. And the last election [10:46] that he ran statewide, he came in a distant third place. So frankly, we need to own up to reality. [10:52] Mike Cox is a fighter, I'll grant that, but he's not a winner. I'm a winner of one twice in Southeast [10:57] Michigan. And I'm currently representing the people of Southeast Michigan. And President Trump's [11:01] endorsed me twice because he knows I'm a winner. And because he knows that we're going to capitalize [11:05] and win this time. I've worked with the president and I've said many, many times, I can agree with the [11:10] president without worshiping him. I can disagree without attacking him. And just like any relationship you have, [11:16] we have those private personal conversations and we move toward these things. And this is exactly [11:21] why we have a new fighter mission at Selfridge Air National Guard Base. This is exactly why we have [11:25] $162 million back for a new runway at Selfridge, because we work these things out and we're able [11:32] to do these things. So I wouldn't out a relationship and I wouldn't air that in public. And I don't think [11:38] anybody out there or here would do that either. Congressman James, one moment, please. We should [11:42] point out, though, that there have been various independent bodies and also legislative bodies [11:48] that have proven there was no widespread voter fraud, although there may have been irregularities [11:52] in the prior elections. It's something that we need to make sure we're fact checking. However, [11:55] we should also point out that when someone does invoke someone else's name, as Mike Cox did with [12:00] Congressman James, we're going to make sure to give that person an extra 30 seconds. Mr. Cox, [12:05] your turn to answer the question, where do you disagree? Where do you disagree with some of [12:10] President Trump's policies? And are you an independent thinker who can actually answer [12:14] that question in a way that tells the people of Michigan that you're able to disagree? [12:19] Well, Rup, if you notice, he did not answer your question, but I will. But that's the Washington way. [12:25] When you're, you say one thing when you're in Washington, one thing when you're on TV [12:28] and do a different thing in reality. So do I disagree with one of President Trump's policy? [12:34] Yes, what's called SALT, meaning state and local tax exemption. High tax states, [12:40] people get to write that off their taxes. It helps out New York, New Jersey and California, [12:45] but not Michigan. So I do disagree. In terms of the 2020 election, John James [12:52] quit the 2020 election and conceded it. And it's funny that he says, I've lost. He's never won statewide. [12:59] I won twice statewide. I beat Gary Peters. When Gary Peters had more money, he ran against Gary Peters [13:07] with more money and he lost. I ran and lost in a primary. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want us to [13:14] win the primary, that doesn't matter. We need to elect a winner in November. That's Mike Cox, [13:19] who's done it twice before. He's failed twice. One last thing. One last thing. The business he [13:24] supposedly grew, he says he grew this business. He was given $2 million by former Governor Snyder [13:32] through the corrupted MEDC. He was the pre-Fay Baidu, given $2 million to create 105 jobs. [13:40] And he did what? Created zero jobs, laid off 32, and never paid the taxpayers back the $2 million. [13:48] We have plenty more time to discuss this. We're going to have a rebuttal from Congressman John [13:53] James coming up after the break to the points that you made. We're also going to be hearing from [13:57] Perry Johnson about what he would do if he disagreed with President Trump. The gubernatorial GOP debate [14:02] here on Fox 2 is coming right back. Back down to the special edition of the Pulse, [16:37] the Republican gubernatorial debate with our live studio audience. Time now to [16:40] take questions from our live studio audience. We want to remind you that we're taking your [16:44] questions at home as well. We're going to get to that in just a moment. You can always scan that QR [16:47] code on your screen. We want to get a rebuttal from Congressman John James right now. Congressman. [16:53] Yeah, real quick, that lie that Mike Cox just told, that was something that happened when I was still in [16:59] the military. When I got out of the military, I joined the family business, and I was able to build a team [17:05] to help grow the family business from what it was to what it is today. I'm very proud of what my family [17:10] has done in our community, and I'm looking forward to using my business experience to help the state [17:15] of Michigan grow. Barry Johnson, I want to talk to you about what you would do. As you have said before, [17:20] you were friends with President Trump, someone you visited many of times, someone who knows you well. [17:24] When you disagree with him, how would you work with him when you do disagree with him? Well, [17:29] the great thing about President Trump is that you can sit down there and reason with him. [17:33] So when you discuss with him, he's very rational. He will know that the most important thing in [17:39] Michigan is that we have a vibrant economy and that we look out for everybody in Michigan. What is the [17:46] number one thing that we have to do? Well, we have to get rid of all this waste. Let's be realistic. [17:52] We are taxed to death right now. We have taxes, sales taxes, taxes for our gasoline, income tax, [18:00] property tax, corporate tax. Heck, pretty soon we're not going to be Michigan, we're going to be tax [18:06] again. And the bottom line on this thing is, it has to stop. Now I'm the one guy in this group, [18:12] I admit I'm not a politician, I want you to know that my ads I pay for. John James, [18:18] he's the best ever at getting money. He's already spent 190 million dollars in name ID, losing two [18:26] elections, and actually it cost I think a record hundred million for him to try to lose against [18:33] Peters. We've never spent that kind of money. It's all my money. So when we talk about a self-funder, [18:39] I'm the self-funder. What does that mean? That means I'm not beholden to anyone. So when I'm going to [18:45] lean this government, I'm doing something that I've been doing all my life. I'm the one guy that is an [18:52] expert at doing this one thing. Now I admit I can't fly a helicopter. We'll all die. But one thing [18:58] that I can do is lean the government because I've been doing it all my life. And that is what we need [19:05] to do right here. If we don't lean the government, we cannot possibly eliminate the state income tax [19:12] or reform the property tax. And it's a sin to have people 65 kicked out of their homes effectively [19:18] because they can't afford to live there. Thank you so much. I do want to ask you a question that we have [19:22] coming from our audience at home. We have text questions coming into our control room right now. [19:26] We'll begin right now with Congressman John James. The text question for the viewers at home, [19:30] what will you do to lower Michigan gas prices right now? Congressman? So the first 30 seconds in [19:36] addition because my name was invoked. Your name was invoked, sir. But they were talking about campaign [19:40] fundraising, not record. If you'd like to mention something, you may. But we'd like to start your [19:44] answer now talking about gas prices as well. So among the things that we have to do is cut the fraud, [19:50] waste and abuse. And specifically what we can do to cut the gas tax is look at the pork in Lansing. [19:56] Think of the $3 billion that I've already identified to cut taxes. And that's personal income taxes. [20:03] We can cut the gas tax by making sure that we go after the $20 billion more that Gretchen Whitmer is [20:10] spending than she spent during the height of the pandemic. We can go after the 50% more that she's [20:14] trying to spend than she got from Rick Snyder. If Nick Shirley, a 19-year-old journalist, can find [20:20] $9 billion of fraud in Minnesota, a state that's 50% of our size and 60% of our spending, [20:26] how much more do you think we can find by going through and looking at it? I've already identified [20:30] $3 billion to return directly to the people in the first year where Perry Johnson, frankly, [20:36] came up with magic numbers that he admitted came from ChatGPT. The fact of the matter is... [20:40] I did not admit anything. That's stupid. [20:42] See, this is exactly... It is stupid, Perry. That is the dumbest... [20:44] As Ashley Mackinac Center actually said it would never work. And so we are dealing with reality, [20:49] we're dealing with facts, going after the waste that's already been identified, returning money to [20:54] the first year, and using the funding that we already have for our infrastructure to make sure [20:58] that we can actually fix our roads. We'll get to you in a moment. We'll give you an extra 30 seconds [21:02] to address that, Perry. But we'll begin with Mike Cox talking about this question from [21:06] our viewer. What will you do to lower Michigan gas prices? What can you do? [21:10] A couple things. The Congressman brought up waste, fraud, and abuse. And again, [21:14] he didn't give any specifics because that's what they do in Washington because they've never had [21:17] to lead a government agency. I actually shrunk the size of the Attorney General's office by 21% [21:23] and we did more. No one does that in government. In terms of road funding or how do we lower the price? [21:30] We're the sixth highest in the country and we have third world roads. So we need to, of course, [21:36] go after waste, fraud, and abuse, which I did. I saved hundreds of millions of dollars, recovered [21:40] hundreds of millions of dollars in Medicaid funding. No one else has done that. I actually put people in [21:45] prison for defrauding the state and stealing ballots. No one else up here has done that. So [21:51] I know how to get it done. And I'm just not like, you know, speaking, I'm walking the walk, talking the [21:58] talk. And in terms of pork, there's no bigger pork project than the $6 billion Governor Whitmer has [22:05] spent on trying to buy jobs instead of reducing the cost on every small business like I started [22:10] and Perry did. And what's ironic is that the Congressman, in fact, did take $2 million in MEDC [22:17] funding. He was in the army. He was in the army. He got out in 2013, started with his family business, [22:24] and for four years he was supposed to create 105 jobs. He laid off 32 people and they never gave [22:32] the $2 million back to the taxpayers. That's waste, fraud, and abuse. That's a shame. We'll get to [22:38] Congressman James with his rebuttal in a moment. Perry Johnson, you yourself were called out by [22:41] Congressman James, talking a little bit about using ChatGPT to figure out some of this stuff. [22:47] Is that true? That's actually stupid. The only thing that... But is it true? No. The bottom line [22:55] on this is we have $1.8 billion with the MEDC that was allocated to try to get 600 jobs. Oh no, to get [23:03] jobs. It was supposed to get 25,600 jobs. It got 600 jobs. That's $3 million per job. That's the kind of [23:12] money that John James got. $2 million. Yes, they had to 2015 to do that, but they never bothered to [23:20] do it. John James was working there then, so Mike is right. And the bottom line is he should return [23:26] that $2 million. But he's not going to do it because he's used to taking money. Perry, we're going to get [23:33] Congressman in a minute here. What would you do to lower gas prices? You have one minute. We have to [23:38] recognize that you can't do anything in terms of eliminating taxes, including the gas tax, until [23:45] you slim the budget. That means you need my mega audit in order to do this. This is what I do every [23:52] day. I've been doing it for 40 years. We are in a position to cut those taxes because our main goal [24:00] here is to try to make it more affordable for Michigan. Now, how are you going to do that? You can't [24:05] magically say, okay, I am this great politician. I know how to raise money so I can go and get [24:12] reelected. But you have to have somebody that has experience. Now, I admit, Mike Cox, for example, [24:19] is a great attorney. He has experience there. He even has a business. I have spent my life doing one [24:26] thing, bringing quality and efficiency to companies and to the Navy and to DOD. I want to do it to state [24:32] government. We do that, and then we can lower that tax on the gas. Thank you, Perry Johnson. [24:38] Congressman James, a lot was said. Your rebuttal to what you just heard. Yeah, there's a lot there, [24:43] Arouk, as you mentioned. But among the things is how hard Michigan's been hit by our jobs being [24:49] shipped overseas, and Perry Johnson outsourcing helped that. And so when he says he's self-funding, [24:54] when he says that he's funding his campaign, he's not funding campaign. You are from the billions that [25:01] he made shipping your jobs over to China and Mexico. He says he's a self-funded because he has to buy his [25:07] own friends. And frankly, to Mike Cox's point, specifically, we can cut pet projects. That's [25:14] 1.5 billion dollars. Improper payments. That's 0.85 billion. That is in cutting general funds that are [25:20] unspent. That's 0.65 billion. That's a total of 3 billion jobs in year one. Those are specifics for [25:27] you, sir. And so when we move forward, we're actually going to have a solid plan that's not [25:32] based on fantasy, magic numbers as Perry calls it, and understanding what it takes to bring people [25:37] together to accomplish tough missions like I've done as opposed to Mike Cox. So I've responded to [25:43] both of them, and we have a little more time to roll with. Mike, go ahead. Okay, a couple things here. [25:47] And you have one minute. First of all, he said Whitmer grew the budget by 20 billion. [25:52] It's 30 billion. That's 3,000 for every single Michigander. You are, Congressman James is so [25:58] far off. 20 billion more. Sir, I did not. Listen. Roop, I thought, okay. Go ahead. [26:04] It's going to be a free-for-all. No, it's not a free-for-all. You can keep going. Okay. [26:07] Your time is still there. He's 10 billion off. Okay. And so his numbers don't work. I've actually [26:13] shrunk the size of a government agency. I've actually started my own business. [26:18] The two folks here haven't done the two things. And Perry's right. I've started my own business. [26:23] I took on big fights. I represented Unlocked Michigan, beat Governor Whitmer as a private [26:27] citizen. And I represented President Trump. When he needed a fighter to protect his election in 2024, [26:33] he came to me. He knows I'm a fighter and a winner. If you want the numbers to reduce state government, [26:39] there's $6 billion that went to companies like John's company. There's 4,000 vacant employment [26:47] slots. There are leases. Cadillac Place, where the governor stays, is 15% empty. And yet there are [26:54] leases all around Cadillac Place off the boulevard. I've consolidated. I've reorganized departments [27:00] before, and I've done more with less. And one last thing. [27:05] Well, we'll come back on the other side of the break, and we'll let you finish your point. [27:08] Thank you. [27:08] But we do have much more ahead. In fact, the debate is not over yet. [27:11] Our conversation continues next on our streaming platform, [27:14] Fox Local. You can go there now to watch the rest of this debate. [27:17] Scan the QR code on the right of your screen to go there right now. [27:20] The candidates will answer more of your questions, and we'll hear more from our studio audience as well. [27:24] I'm Root Praj. We'll see you in just a few minutes. [27:26] Well, it is the Republican gubernatorial debate. We did the Democratic one, [30:32] but we're so glad you're with us on this special edition of The Poll streaming exclusively [30:36] on Fox Local. We should mention, by the way, we're going to be hearing from all the candidates. [30:39] You heard them say, is this a free-for-all? It's not. If someone starts to talk over someone, [30:44] we'll let it go for a couple of seconds. But then, if it becomes something where you can't [30:48] answer the question, we'll get in there and make sure you get your rebuttal. And in that spirit, [30:51] Mike, we want to begin with you. Mike Cox, you were in the middle of a statement. [30:55] Yes, I would. Thank you, Root. Again, Congressman James was doing the Washington [31:00] way, saying one thing and doing another. He attacked Mr. Johnson over shipping jobs overseas. [31:07] The reality is, as I announced yesterday, and people can go to jamesmadeinchina.com. Congressman [31:13] James, and I'm offended by this because I'm a child of the working class, not the child of a CEO class. [31:19] Congressman James, while he's been a congressman, has imported 920 shipments from Japan of auto parts [31:27] that are made here in Michigan and across the Midwest. He did it to put profits over people. [31:33] As your governor, I won't sell you out like that, and I won't lie to you like that, [31:39] and I will look out for manufacturing jobs, not cooperate with the Communist Chinese [31:44] Party in order to line my pockets like Congressman James has. And that is an accusation, and one that [31:49] we'll get to. That absolutely is, 100%. One we'll get to. Because I'm here to speak out for those [31:54] who've had family members' jobs like mine, who have been outsourced by people like John James. And, [31:59] Mike, we're going to get to Congressman James with his response. But first, [32:02] Perry Johnson, you have a lot to say about what was said about you. Please. [32:05] The bottom line is, I have not outsourced a single job to China in my life. I have not imported a single [32:14] thing in my life. We know that John has imported nearly a billion dollars. That is on the website. [32:22] You can go to Mike's website. It's a fact. I have spent my entire life actually bringing quality and [32:29] efficiency to the state of Michigan in the automobile industry. When he was in diapers, I was out there [32:37] helping to save the automobile industry. I've spent my entire life bringing quality and efficiency to [32:42] companies across this state and across the entire country. Because that's my focus. I am focused on [32:50] one simple thing, and that is bringing efficiency to our state. We have to get rid of the fraud, [32:56] waste, and abuse so we can eliminate the state income tax and reform the property tax. We have to [33:03] eliminate the property tax for those over 65. It's not fair that they can't afford to be in their home [33:09] because the government has decided to abuse all of their money and throw it away. It's time that we [33:16] realize that just one thing alone, let's take the MEDC. $1.8 billion was spent on the MEDC. [33:24] And in that MEDC, they created literally 600 jobs or $3 million per job, [33:29] and John James was part of that group. No way around it. Now, I will lean the government with no [33:36] one leaning on me. Perry Johnson, thank you. Congressman James, you heard Mike Cox talk about [33:41] what he calls these connections to China with your company. You heard Perry Johnson allude to some [33:47] other accusations. They say they have receipts. Are these receipts correct or incorrect? [33:52] They're incorrect. We work for Ford Motor Company, General Motors. Our company focuses on exporting parts, [34:00] so we keep our jobs here. Look, you didn't come here to see a bunch of grown men bicker, [34:05] so I'm going to be focusing on the issues, focusing on the disciplines that it takes to actually grow [34:10] jobs in the state of Michigan coming out of the Great Recession. And I'm excited about the opportunity [34:15] we have to grow opportunity for you by cutting taxes, cutting regulations, and cutting, frankly, [34:22] the insurance cartels that we have in the state of Michigan. I'm excited for the opportunity we have [34:27] and to answer the questions that the people have. Nothing of the accusations that were [34:31] brought about by the Cox campaign are true at all. When he went outside and, frankly, [34:36] disrespected my workforce yesterday, that was actually a facility that has been exporting [34:42] American-made parts to be shipped all over the world to be bought, opening additional markets. And [34:48] that's what I've been working on, opening additional markets for automotive, opening additional markets for [34:53] agriculture so that they buy our goods, not the other way around. Congressman, thank you. [34:57] So I work for General Motors and Ford, just like a lot of folks, and, frankly, my... Congressman, [35:03] yeah, go ahead. Your time is up. Yeah, sure. And, Mike, I know you want a rebuttal to the rebuttal, [35:07] and you can talk about what you believe really happened here in a moment, but we have to get to [35:11] our audience questions as well. Sure. So mark that note, and let's get to our audience questions. [35:15] We begin with Andrea Beitely from Lansing. Andrea. Thank you. This question is for Attorney General Cox. [35:19] Yes. What will you do as governor to reform the MEDC, as well as continue to regain and [35:24] strengthen Michigan's business climate? Well, first and foremost, I would lower the [35:29] cost for every small business. I was the first one to propose an income tax cut. And, Andrea, [35:35] you run a small business, so you know that 900,000 small businessmen and women here in Michigan [35:40] create two-thirds of all new jobs. That's the one thing I learned from the past 15 years as a small [35:45] business owner. I would unleash those folks. When you eliminate the income tax, like Tennessee has [35:52] and Florida and other states, you do unleash immense economic activity driven by small businesses. They [35:59] get to invest in a new pizza oven. They get to a new tool and dye shop. They add a new piece of [36:05] machinery. And, Andrea, since we're both small business men and women, I would not try to buy [36:10] jobs like the MEDC has because it didn't work with Congressman James' company. They tried to buy [36:17] jobs and they ended up in layoffs. And the money was never paid up. I'm all about lowering the burden [36:23] on every small business, lowering the taxation rate, and then let the winners figure out who they are. [36:28] That's the American way. That's the American dream. When I started my business, [36:33] no one paid me to pay my first employee. No one paid my salary. No one paid me for my first lease. [36:41] I and my wife had to borrow against our savings to do that. That's the way it works. And that will [36:47] unleash and create a beautiful and better Michigan. Thank you for the question, Andrea. [36:51] He invoked your name, but also talked about your record. Yeah, I'll just say the more you lie [36:57] doesn't make it more true the more you lie. So let's get on to the topics and the facts. [37:02] Well, on the contrary. On the contrary. Sir, are you going to say that you didn't [37:07] import 920 different shipments between the time you took office up through Memorial Day? [37:13] Please don't address the other candidates. If you believe that that's the truth, [37:16] we can ask that we can address that question. Then I'll ask you. Can you ask [37:21] John James if he's never imported products from China? Mike, I made it clear. And we've asked, [37:27] we've asked the question. This is James' time. John, I want to ask you the question. [37:30] Anything, anything that you're hearing, anything that you're hearing right now, [37:34] you're saying all of it is false. So I mean, they've been flooding the zone with BS for the [37:42] past half hour. I mean, what do you want me to address about what's false? About the fact that [37:47] Mike Cox doesn't know the beginning of the automotive industry. And he he's asserting that [37:52] something that's not true about the facility went out there or, or maybe what Perry doesn't literally [37:56] have a company called Perry Johnson outsourcing. And he's denying. I mean, the, the flooding the [38:01] zone with, with inaccuracies is exactly what they're here to do. And I said this in my opening statement, [38:06] that they will resort to deceit and defamation to throw the people off the scent. The fact of the [38:12] matter is, I'll tell you, I'll bet him $5 million of people's money you stole. Everybody here, [38:18] that's $5 million. Perry Johnson outsourcing is a company that exists only. Perry, that's, [38:25] this is part of your rebuttal time right now. You can finish your statement quickly. [38:28] Only in India for India. And it doesn't exist. That does no work. [38:34] Guys, I have to, I have to, I have to move on to this question. [38:37] What group respect is it for you, but it doesn't exist? [38:39] I have never found it. [38:40] Mike, you have 30 seconds and then we've got to move on. [38:42] We've got to move on to Mike. Perry, thank you. Mike, go ahead. 30 seconds. [38:49] This will settle one thing. No one's ever accused me of exporting American jobs and outsourcing. [38:56] But the reality is he did the Washington way thing again, Rup, which is he didn't ask the direct [39:01] question. Did you ever import products from China? And he refuses to answer that because the answer is [39:08] yes. He doesn't want to admit it to all the auto workers. He said, [39:12] I don't know it. He said, he said, I don't know anything about manufacturing. I do. [39:16] That's answer. The answer is no. Mike, thank you. Listen, [39:19] that's one thing I'll tell you right now. The answer is no. [39:20] No, no. See, Mike, he just said that's General Motors. He does it. [39:25] Mike. No, no. That's General Motors and Ford. I answered his question directly. [39:27] Mike, Congressman, Perry, I want to tell you one thing. The one thing we get on the pulse [39:30] is the pulse of what people are sick of. You know what they're sick of? They're sick of people screaming [39:34] and yelling. All of you, all three of you, here's the bottom line. There are people who are wondering [39:38] right now about data centers. The majority of people on the other side of the camera [39:43] don't care as much about some of the dollars and cents we're talking about with these companies. [39:47] They care a lot about these data centers. My question to you, and we'll begin with Perry Johnson [39:52] this time. Do you believe AI data centers have a place in Michigan? And have you and would you [39:56] accept any money from an AI data center company? Barry? [40:00] I haven't accepted any money from anyone. And as you know, John James has accepted $107,000 [40:08] from the people building the data centers and accepted $39,000 from the people powering the [40:14] data centers. I was out there demonstrating against the data centers when they had the [40:20] demonstration in Lansing, which is why the activists endorsed me. The bottom line is with the data [40:25] centers quite simple. They have no OSHA requirements right now. We have no idea what the damage is. We [40:32] do know for a fact that the sound rays damage babies. And we don't know what's going to happen with data [40:38] centers in six or seven years because AI is moving at exponential rates. And because of that, we may not [40:44] even need the data centers that we're building in six or seven years. What I did make very, very clear [40:50] was that in these data centers, we have to recognize that we should never be subsidizing [40:56] because we have the best environment anyone could ever want. We have the most coastline in the entire [41:02] country. And we have a relatively cool climate, which is ideal for these data centers. I wanted [41:07] a one-year moratorium on all data centers so we can sit back, investigate, find out what's going on. [41:14] Because the bottom line is we can't jump into everything and then suddenly say, [41:19] oh, I'm sorry. Congressman John James, have you or would you accept money from an AI company [41:24] or a data center in your campaign? Yeah, no. My priorities is, frankly, local control, [41:32] protecting our water, protecting and preventing pollution, making sure that electricity bills do [41:39] not go up, and also making sure that we prioritize blighted and brownfields over productive green farmland. [41:46] That would be my moratorium. That would be our standard. We absolutely cannot have an additional [41:52] data center until we protect the people and the communities. That's no NDAs. That's making sure we [41:58] don't have the ground, air, and water pollution, and also the noise pollution, and making sure that, [42:03] again, we protect local control, no NDAs. Michigan's open for business, but we're not for sale. We need to [42:09] absolutely make sure that our ag and automotive industries are growing, but we also need to make sure [42:13] that we are participating in leading the fight with tech and energy and hospitality and maritime [42:19] and defense. We can do that, but we need to make sure that when we do that, we're not doing it at the [42:24] expense of Michiganders. Mike Cox, would you accept money from an AI company or a data center, [42:30] and where do you see data centers in our state? Well, first and foremost, I never have. Okay. [42:36] Secondly, would you in the future? No. Secondly, I'm all about let the people decide, [42:42] not politicians. I'm the only one. I'm not calling names. I'm the only one who's ever fought big [42:49] utilities and saved ratepayers over $3 billion, one for the people of Michigan. I'm the only one who's [42:55] ever sued and fought with big tech, and one for the people of Michigan. And so I will put a priority [43:01] on local communities to decide what they want. And then if they decide, then we make sure that, [43:09] as the state, as the governor of the PSC, that any new electricity is paid for by the data center, [43:16] and that, of course, that they meet all the environmental requirements. As attorney general, [43:20] I fought to clean up our air water. I fought Asian carp. I fought ballast water dumping into our Great [43:28] Lakes. And I won against the federal government, ultimately on both of those. And I would do that [43:32] again. Again, I'm for the people deciding, not politicians. We have a question coming from our [43:38] text that we have, of course, up right now, flooded with text messages right now on our streaming. [43:43] This person saying, how are you going to reach voters who are fed up with traditional politics? [43:48] And I got to tell you, my friends, the reason I say you can't have rebuttals to rebuttals to [43:51] rebuttals is because people are sick of the bickering. They want to know answers. They want to have [43:55] solutions. Congressman John James, what would you do to break the traditional political cycle [44:01] of infighting and getting nothing done a lot of times in Washington? [44:04] Yeah. Lead by example. I've done that my entire life. I was raised by a pair of Democrats from the [44:10] Jim Crow South who taught me to love everyone and fight for everyone for justice. And frankly, [44:16] that was what helped me to accomplish tough and dangerous missions when I deployed to Iraq. [44:20] It's what helped me come back and grow our family business, [44:24] working with anyone and everyone because folks at our company only cared about how we could help [44:29] grow our community and keep our families on the same health care insurance that my children are on. [44:34] And then right now, working across the aisle, I'm being attacked for working across the aisle, [44:39] but working across the aisle to, frankly, have an anti-human trafficking bill signed by one president [44:45] and an anti-Biden-era EV mandate signed by President Trump just last year. [44:50] I can work with anyone and everyone who will help make 10 million people in the state of Michigan [44:55] more prosperous. And I think that leadership, proven, experienced leadership in a diverse [45:01] background where bullets are flying to coming out of the recession when people needed hope, [45:06] that's the type of example that we need to change the philosophy, change the culture, [45:10] and change the environment in Michigan for the better to the benefit of every single one of us, [45:14] regardless of what we look like or where we came from. [45:16] Perry Johnson, what would you do to change the dynamics of our political norms right now? [45:22] Well, you notice that John James specifically did not say he was going to refund the $107,000 [45:29] given to him by the people building the data centers, nor the 39,000 that was given to him [45:35] by the people powering the data centers. That's what our politicians do. I think we need to focus on [45:41] the issues. What are the real issues? The issues right now are economic. We have to be realistic [45:47] right now. If we do not slim our government, the nuttiness of spend, $1 billion because we're going [45:54] to try to increase the spate of the Amtrak train by 10% and not even succeed, $1 billion because we're [46:01] going to try to ameliorate the quality of reading, writing for our kids that are fourth grade and under, [46:07] and we went from 26th in the country to 44th in the country as a result. $1.8 billion because of [46:13] the MEDC nuttiness, of which of course he got $2 million. But the bottom line on this all is that [46:20] we have to recognize that the issues at hand demand that we take a look at trying to lean our government. [46:28] We have to realize that you need to go in there, get rid of the fraud and abuse so we can eliminate [46:34] the state income tax, ignite the state, reform the property tax so the people 65 and older can [46:40] continue to live in their home without paying that property tax. That's the key. We have three men who [46:46] are really smart on stage and I should point something out to you. Every time you talk about [46:50] another person's record on stage, you're handing them the chance to answer the question and perhaps [46:54] make another point. So be judicious with your time as we continue in our second half hour, [46:59] but I do want to give Congressman John James a chance to rebut that. The $107,000 that [47:05] Perry Johnson is saying came from AI data centers to you. You deny that? [47:11] I've gotten, frankly, investments from 8,000 Michiganders all over the state who are bought in this [47:18] campaign. I don't have to buy my friends, Perry. Frankly, one of the donations I'm most proud of [47:24] is 50 bucks from alignment. I've gotten money from home school parents because people want to have a [47:29] state that they continue to stay in and grow in. People have believed in this mission, which is the [47:35] reason why they've gotten behind me. I'm up double digits in the polls and President Trump's endorsed. [47:40] I'm here because I want to talk about the facts and frankly, I would love to get on with the debate, sir. [47:46] Mike, go ahead. Well, you asked both of them about stopping bickering and can you work across the [47:53] aisle? Okay. The reality is, and you're not going to like this group, but Congressman James has been [47:59] 10 prior debates. He didn't show up for any of them. So a lot of it is pent up. Let's get to the [48:06] answers. Here's the reality. I worked with John James. I found his first campaign office in my [48:12] building. I gave him thousands of dollars each and every time he ran and he lost. That's the reality. [48:19] Michigan wants a fighter who can win. Republicans want a fighter who can win. By the way, I was a [48:26] single parent for seven years. So when I got in office, I dealt with fighting for issues that [48:32] single parents did. And that's what animated what I did. They're not generally Republicans. [48:38] I worked in the Wayne County prosecutor's office, the only Republican there. And Mike Duggan, [48:43] Mike Duggan promoted me to run the homicide unit because I got things done. But you know what, [48:48] we need to fight in order to get some wins for Michigan. We need to fight and bring some competency [48:54] in someone who's actually done something in their life instead of being handed it. [48:58] I fight, I win, and I build teams. Did it with Democrats? Did it with Republicans? That's how I [49:05] won two very tough statewide races. Because I can talk to independents and Democrats. Congressman, [49:10] you're the one who said you want to get on with the debate. We have other questions, [49:12] but if you want to rebut not showing up to other debates, you're more than welcome to do so. [49:16] Yeah, the last one was when I was voting for the farm bill. Look, these two gentlemen would troll Jesus [49:24] and say he couldn't swim because he walked on water, and who am I? I would expect attacks from [49:29] these gentlemen when I'm focused on doing my job for the people of the 10th Congressional District. [49:34] I've delivered for the people of the 10th Congressional District. I've won twice in [49:38] Southeast Michigan, and I'm excited to continue to win for you. Again, this is all coming from a guy [49:45] who came in third, his last primary lost, and he was first elected. He was last elected 20 years ago [49:52] before the iPhone. So again, you keep flooding the zone with lies that doesn't make them any more true. [49:59] We're going to be focused on the things that people in Michigan want. [50:02] We have a question from our audience, from Jamie Rowe from Macomb Township. Jamie, what's your question? [50:06] Hi, great. Yeah, it's for Perry Johnson. Saw you last week at the Southeast Michigan Chamber of [50:11] Commerce in Warren. Macomb County is the center of the universe in this election, and just want to ask [50:18] you how would you say your life experiences connects you with the needs that we have in Macomb County, [50:25] and how are you going to help us move the county forward? Well, as many of you know, [50:31] I grew up in a 600 square foot home. I had to work my way through college. I did. There were times I [50:39] could not afford a sub sandwich, but I got through. I know what it is to feel pain. Yes, I've been very [50:46] fortunate. I got a break in the auto industry, and the auto industry was hurting. This was around 1980, [50:54] and I thought I knew how to correct the problem. And I've spent my entire life bringing quality and [50:58] efficiency to a variety of companies in all areas. I've obviously came up with the idea of having [51:06] a quality standard. Wrote a book on that. It electrified the world, and I have been using that [51:13] all over the world. That's why I want my mega audit, my audit for Michigan efficiency, because we need [51:20] to lean the government. Now, I'm beholding to no one. I don't have to go and do a favor for somebody [51:27] because they donated to my campaign. You know, I'm going to lean the government, and no one is going to [51:34] be leaning on me. And the beauty of this is I didn't allow anyone to donate. I didn't put up even a site [51:41] to donate because I want everybody to recognize that I'm doing this for my kids, for my family. [51:47] I want them to stay here. I'm the one person that has the experience and background to lean our [51:53] government so we can eliminate the income tax and reform the property tax. I want to get to Mike [51:57] Cox. Mike, we have a text question that's coming in that allows you to set the tone for the rest of [52:03] the 10 minutes we have left here and talk about what you would do. Now, what others haven't done or have [52:07] done, all three of you should be focusing on yourselves. What is your first priority in [52:12] office if you were to become governor? Thank you. I advise everyone to go to my website, [52:17] Mike Cox 2026, where I've had 60 pages of ideas for the past year and a half. What would I do on [52:23] the very first day? The very first day I get sworn in, I walk across the street, I go to the governor's [52:29] office, and I sign Michigan into the Trump school choice tax credit. After that, I'd order all state [52:36] employees back to work because you ought to be able to find public servants in public places. [52:40] I would order all the MSP in all state, anyone who relies on state funding for law enforcement to [52:48] cooperate with ICE, the DEA, FBI. I spent 13 years in the city of Detroit. We used all of them to solve [52:55] crimes in the city of Detroit and make Michigan safer. What else would I do? I'd do two things. [53:01] I'd issue an order, which you can as governor under Article 5 of the Constitution, to call a special [53:06] session of the House and Senate to begin on January 12th, because that's the first day they begin. [53:12] And the special session would be to address two issues, eliminating the income tax, which I love [53:18] Perry for adopting it and advertising it, but I was the first one to bring it up. And second, it is [53:24] fixed Michigan education by following the reforms that my granddaughters have benefited in the state of [53:30] Mississippi, where they get a better education than the kids in my neighborhood in Livonia, Michigan. [53:34] Teaching phonics, grading, make sure every third grader like my autistic granddaughter could read [53:41] in order to be promoted, and grading every public schools. Those things are the things I love to talk [53:46] about and I wish we could do this a lot longer. Thank you, Mike. Listen, we have more questions coming to us [53:53] on text just flooded over there. We also have a studio audience ready to ask questions. We have one for [53:57] John James and our studio audience. We have Kerry Leon Jackson. And Kerry, we thank you for joining [54:02] us here. If you're talking to the mic and tell us what your question is for Congressman James. [54:06] Congressman, I've tried to get a hold of many politicians to voice my concerns, including you, [54:12] and I feel like responses aren't always treated with the urgency they deserve. What will you do to [54:18] truly listen and respond to your constituents should you win? [54:22] Well, thank you so much for that question. First, we need to change the culture. Customer [54:28] service-obsessed culture in Lansing, just like I've done with my business, just like I've done [54:33] with my official office with our team. With our team, we've returned 20 million dollars to people [54:39] in the 10th congressional district of money from the federal government. We've helped them with [54:43] everything from passports to getting into the VA. That's the level of customer service that I expect, [54:48] and that's the level of customer service that you should demand. I'm excited for one story. We got a [54:54] Facebook message, and we responded to it within 10 minutes by making sure that the MEDC is totally [55:01] reformed, making sure that EGLE is totally reformed, making sure that the entire government is focused [55:07] on you by focusing on access to capital, access to contracts, and a concierge approach to compliance. [55:17] Those are the ways that we're going to help businesses large and small to be able to grow [55:22] and focusing on creating 10 jobs, 15 jobs, 20 jobs, 100 jobs in the organic way, focusing on retention. [55:29] And so for the individual citizen, we're going to keep on focusing on customer service. That's how I [55:34] helped my family grow our family business, and that's how I've served the people of 10th congressional [55:38] district, and I'm excited to take that culture forward to Lansing. We have a question for all three of [55:43] you coming from Abby Mitch in our studio audience. This is for all three. Abby, go ahead. Explain your [55:49] approach to the state budget process and how you will build a coalition of legislators that will [55:53] champion your priorities in the legislature. We'll begin with Perry and go down the line. [55:59] There are two issues involved. The first issue is the money that's allocated. The second issue is [56:04] the civilian workforce that works every day and works in every administration. When you allocate, [56:10] right now they fight over how much they're going to allocate, and you go through the fighting [56:15] process because that's politics. That's what they do over there in Congress all the time. [56:20] What we need to do is have a way of getting the actual civilian workforce that's working every day [56:26] to be more efficient so that we don't have to spend every penny in that budget. We're in a position [56:32] where we can do something like that, and you work with the civilian workforce to get lean it. Now, [56:38] my secret, very simple, I have a mega audit, a Michigan efficiency government audit. I know it starts by [56:45] having a meeting of 12 people. There are always 12 people. I tell everybody I need 10 percent off [56:50] the budget. Everybody says they can't do it in the beginning. I tell them the guy that comes up with [56:55] it, he'll end up being or she'll end up being the boss, and it's amazing how that works. But we are going [57:01] to have to lean our government. It's not just the people in Washington allocating money or the people [57:08] that we have in Congress here allocating money. It's how do we run the operations so that they are more [57:14] efficient. And that's the key. Perry, thank you. And I want to invite all our candidates to remember, [57:19] we only have a very few short minutes left. So anything that you claim about the other candidate [57:23] is going to be a rebuttal. So you were just taking away time from yourself. So focus on yourself. [57:27] Congressman John James, please, Abby Mitch's question. Yes, of course. We're going to do the budget [57:34] process the way we did it in business. I believe that we should be taking a look at zero-based budgeting. [57:39] The fraud, waste, and abuse has to be looked at from the bottom up and the top down. Working with [57:46] subject matter experts and recognizing that everything that's there is from the Whitmer [57:50] administration, and most of it is waste to begin with. As I stated, Gretchen Whitmer is spending $20 [57:56] billion more than she spent during the height of the pandemic. And she's asking for 50% more than she [58:03] got from the Snyder administration. Do you feel like your rows are 50% better? How about your schools? [58:08] These things aren't 50% better. And so by going back and seeing exactly what we need, frankly, [58:13] and cutting the things that we don't and incentivizing whistleblowers, protecting them [58:18] because they know where it is, I've already been working with the house leadership in Lansing and [58:24] also house oversight in Lansing. And we're working on concrete ideas for how we actually execute this. [58:31] So we'll be ready on day one. I've pulled together tough teams before, and we've executed mission [58:37] from combat to business to serving the people of 10th Congressional District. And that experienced [58:41] leadership is what you can expect from me over the next four years. Mike? Thank you, Rup. And thank [58:46] you, Abby, for that question. The budget undeniably has grown from $56.8 billion up to $86.6, [58:55] almost $30 billion. So we're obviously going to have to go after waste, fraud, and abuse. And that's [59:00] what I did as attorney general, recovering prosecuting offenders, recovering Medicaid monies, hundreds [59:05] of millions of dollars. That was my ammo. That's what I did. But, Abby, I would take this legal pad, [59:12] which I did when I was an AG, and I shrunk the size of the office by 21%, and every year returned [59:18] money back to the Treasury. I would take this legal pad and I'd look at every line item. I'd look at it [59:25] with my budget director, with the folks in the legislature, and I would create a brand new [59:30] budget. Here's the reality. I was AG when there was a Democrat House, Senate, and a Democrat governor. [59:38] We built...