Meet the Press NOW — October 23

[0:00] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker with 11 days to go. The president is right now [0:15] hitting the campaign trail in his home state of Florida to shore up his base with signs he's [0:21] feeling the pressure of an increasingly difficult midterm environment for Republicans as he ramps [0:26] up his attacks on Democrats in key battleground states. This afternoon, the president's dumping [0:31] for congressman and gubernatorial candidate Byron Donalds. It's a notable use of presidential time [0:37] and resources this close to election day because this is a race that should be a slam dunk for [0:43] Republicans in the president's backyard. It's his sixth red state visit in as many days. [0:49] The president moments ago leaning into his closing argument to get out the vote. [0:54] We're going to defeat the radical left Democrats all across the country and we're going to win [1:02] a Republican House and a Republican Senate and do things like you wouldn't believe. [1:07] The Democrat Party has nominated the most extreme anti-American radicals ever to seek [1:14] office. In this election, I'm asking you to pretend that I'm on the ballot and if we can [1:19] get the people out, then we're going to have landslides the likes of which we've never seen. [1:24] It comes ahead of a battleground blitz that includes return trips to red states like Iowa, [1:30] Georgia, Texas and Ohio, as well as his first stop in Michigan, where former Republican Congressman [1:36] Mike Rogers faces Democrat Abdul El-Sayed in a closely watched Senate contest. Today, [1:42] Trump laying into El-Sayed with racially charged accusations as he departed the White House. Take a [1:47] look. [1:49] Can you imagine this guy? He was a member, probably still is, of the Muslim Brotherhood. [1:55] We can't have him in Congress. [1:56] We can't have him in the United States Senate. And I look forward to, I tell you what, I look so [2:05] forward to Michigan and I think it's going to be wild, but I look so forward because he's a total [2:11] phony. He's a little phony and everything about him is fake and he's a liar and he talks about all [2:18] these things about like he's a moderate. He's not a writer. He's a jihadist. He's a vicious, [2:24] violent jihadist and he has no place in our government. [2:27] Now we should note El-Sayed has disavowed the Muslim Brotherhood and repeatedly denied [2:33] any ties to the group. The president also doubling down on his defense of an ad by Ohio gubernatorial [2:39] candidate Vivek Ramaswamy that has generated bipartisan backlash. The ad features the Democratic [2:46] candidate Amy Acton's estranged mother calling her a liar. Acton says she has not spoken with [2:52] her mother for nearly 50 years after she was sexually abused by her stepfather as a child [2:57] and removed from her mother's custody. The president claiming Acton's backstory was not [3:02] relevant when pressed by our own Monica Alba. There are very serious sexual abuse allegations. [3:09] Quiet. They make no difference to you? Isn't she a fresh person? You're a horrible little reporter, [3:15] aren't you? If my mother said bad things about me, do you think the Democrats would put it up? [3:21] I think so. But my mother thought I was wonderful. Thank you, Mom. If I had that ad, [3:27] I should be so lucky to have an ad like that. Why wouldn't you listen to a mother that says that? [3:31] Why? Why wouldn't you miss NBC? Why wouldn't you listen? Wait a minute. Quiet. You have, [3:37] I don't know anything about a stepfather. All you have, well, this one just keeps talking. [3:42] 19 steps are. You just keep talking. I'm answering you, sir. You have, I don't know anything about [3:47] stepfathers from many, many years ago. I know that recently a mother got on television and said that [3:55] her daughter should not be governor of Ohio. And she said, I love my daughter, but my daughter lies [4:02] all the time and lied about her opponent and I can't watch it. And the mother got up. This has [4:08] nothing to do with a stepfather or anything else. The president's defense of the ad comes as other [4:14] Republicans have called for it to be taken down, including Ohio Governor Mike DeWine and Iowa Senate [4:20] candidate Ashley Hinson, who campaigned with the president yesterday. Meanwhile, another sign of the [4:25] uphill battle facing Republicans, our friends at the Cook Political Report, moving 19 more house [4:31] races in the Democrats direction, saying Republicans path to keeping control of the house has, quote, [4:37] all but evaporated. Joining me now from the White House is the one and only NBC's Monica Alba. [4:43] And with me on set, NBC's John Allen and Ben Camasar. Monica, I want to start with you. I want to start [4:48] by commending you for a really important line of questioning there. So let's talk about what we [4:55] heard from the president in Florida before we get to your exchange with the president. Two weeks to [5:02] go, less than two weeks, in fact, until election day. What are the implications of the president [5:08] campaigning in Florida and his closing message, Monica? I think where he's going tells you so much, [5:14] Kristen, and it is notable that he is in Florida today. And as he was leaving for that trip, he conceded [5:20] that there are some races that maybe shouldn't be as tight as they are and acknowledged that some [5:25] Republicans who otherwise in pretty reliably red places shouldn't be so vulnerable might be. [5:31] And so the president is really continuing to test his case theory, which is that if he shows up in [5:37] these places and it helps to boost Republican turnout because people will kind of pretend as [5:42] he implores them to that he's on the ballot, then he will see this as a successful experiment. [5:47] But it's really interesting when he goes to other places and he will be in more kind of [5:52] battlegrounds this weekend when he's in Georgia and Michigan. But he's been spending a lot of the [5:57] last two weeks in really defense mode in these reliably red places. And in Florida, of course, [6:03] he's extremely popular and congressional Republicans have worked there to see if a redrawn [6:09] map could be more beneficial to them in the upcoming elections. But the president, again, [6:14] acknowledging that he needs to go there because some of these races are a little bit closer [6:19] than maybe some in the GOP anticipated at this point. Monica, as you've been talking, [6:24] we've been watching live pictures there of President Trump stumping with Byron Donalds again [6:30] in that gubernatorial race in Florida that we've been watching so closely. Byron Donalds running against [6:36] David Jolly. Monica, let me ask you, though, about this news coming out of the White House today, [6:42] taking action tied to the Alaska Senate race. What do we know about that? Break that down for us. [6:49] Well, this is significant because we saw the lawsuit that came out from the Trump administration [6:55] just, again, moments before the president was on his way to Florida. And then when he landed, [7:01] he was asked about that by reporters. And he said very plainly, yes, I directed them to do that, [7:08] essentially asking the Department of Justice to put up a flag about depending on the outcome of what [7:15] happened in the Alaska Senate race in the midterms just 12 days from now, depending on who wins or [7:21] loses, basically contesting or questioning the results because of the case of the various Dan [7:28] Sullivans that are on the ballot there. Of course, you have Senator Dan Sullivan, the Republican who the [7:34] president is supporting. And then you have another Daniel Sullivan who is on the ballot. There was a lot [7:39] of back and forth about this in the primary, in the lead up. There were even legal cases over it. [7:45] But now the Trump administration essentially bringing into question the results potentially, [7:50] they say, if their candidate doesn't win there. Well, let me ask you, Monica, about your exchange [7:57] with President Trump, who really doubled down defending that incredibly controversial ad [8:02] by Vivek Ramaswamy. You were pressing him on the important backstory here, which is that Amy Acton's [8:09] estranged from her mom, her stepfather charged with sexually assaulting her. Of course, Monica, [8:15] talk a little bit about the backlash and how that ad has been playing on the trail. [8:21] And actually, I started my line of questioning with the president by bringing Ashley Hinson's [8:27] own words to him. Of course, that is the Republican in Iowa that he was just campaigning with [8:32] last night who has denounced the ad, who has said that the Ramaswamy campaign [8:36] should pull it down. And before I could even finish my question, the president interrupted me [8:41] and said, well, Republicans can do that, but quote, they don't know the facts. And so when I was [8:46] sort of pressing the president about the actual facts of this case, I was trying to explain to him [8:51] that there is this relevant context, that there is this backstory to the relationship here and what [8:58] Amy Acton says, which is that she hasn't spoken with her estranged mother in decades. Her own brother [9:03] has talked about the sexual abuse allegations. And again, just according to court documents and [9:09] records, we know that her stepfather, who has since died, was charged with this, charged with rape [9:15] when she was just 12 years old back in 1978. So I was trying to present the president with those facts [9:22] since he didn't seem to be acknowledging them. But it does not appear, Kristen, that he's shifting at [9:28] all his calculation on still supporting this ad, despite all of that. [9:34] Now, the president continues to be defiant about it. Monica, great job today at the White House. [9:38] Thanks so much for starting us off. John Allen, let me start with you, because Vivek Ramaswamy [9:43] has been pressed about this repeatedly. And today he actually had some new comments. I'm going to play a [9:49] little bit. Get your analysis on the other side. Let's take a look. Governor DeWine called on you to [9:54] pull down the ad. Your reaction. So I respectfully have a different point of view. And I think the [9:59] issue here, and I just want to be crystal clear about it. The issue here is that our opposition, [10:05] and I think with the media aid, they are lying about an ad that is about lying. Our ad had nothing, [10:13] nothing to do with childhood abuse, sexual abuse. We condemn that as forcefully as anyone. [10:20] And I think it is legitimate to be able to criticize the opponent's capabilities [10:24] without getting into any issues which we have not gotten into relating to the topic they're [10:30] discussing. They're the ones who brought that up, not us. John, how's that defense playing on the [10:37] trail? How do you expect it to play out in these closing days? There are a few astonishing things [10:41] that are going on just in the last few minutes here. I mean, number one, the fact that a candidate [10:46] has to defend the idea that he is against child sexual abuse, right, that he has to say that that's [10:51] not what he was talking about, like, whoops. The president of the United States going after [10:56] Monica there, who is one of the most competent, most decent human beings I know, and losing his [11:02] temper at Monica. And then, of course, the ad itself. And all of these tell you the exact same [11:07] thing, which is that Vivek Ramaswamy is losing. This is not something somebody does when they're winning. [11:11] It's not something somebody does when they feel like they can move the needle a point or two. [11:15] This is a Hail Mary pass. And sometimes when you see odd ads or different things, you look at it and [11:22] say, well, sometimes when people are playing checkers, looks like they're playing checkers, [11:26] they're actually playing chess. In this case, when somebody looks like they're playing checkers, [11:31] they may just be doing it poorly. Well, it's a really important framing. And I guess [11:35] what's notable about this, it sparked a national conversation. And it's prompted questions to, [11:41] all of the other Republican candidates who now have to answer for this. Ashley Hinson, [11:46] for example, John, pressed on this ad. And she came out pretty forcefully, said she thinks it [11:53] should be taken down. For her, I actually think it's the one case where it's like super helpful [11:57] for her that this happened, because she had the president in town and she's been trying to walk [12:01] this tightrope between courting the MAGA base and also distancing herself a little bit from Trump, [12:07] because in Iowa, his popularity has fallen a great deal. It is like every one of the issues [12:12] is hitting gas prices, diesel prices, the tariff, the trade wars hitting farmers, like all of that [12:17] is going on. So she's had to distance herself some. In this case, she gets to distance herself from [12:22] the Republican Party while Trump is in Iowa, without distancing herself from him, and take a position [12:28] that I think, you know, 99 percent of Americans have, which is, you know, maybe don't bring up this [12:33] traumatic thing in an ad and use an estranged mother who was estranged because her husband was [12:39] accused of raping the other candidate. Yeah. Let me, we have some polls of women voters in Ohio. [12:49] When you look at this, John Allen, and it shows that the candidates in Ohio underwater with women [12:55] voters, and I've been talking to strategists who say they're concerned this ad is going to actually [12:59] drive women voters. And I think we have the poll, if we can put it up on air, even further away from [13:04] Vivek Ramaswamy. And maybe we don't have the poll, but bottom line is they're underwater with [13:09] women voters. Do you think it could have that impact? Yeah, absolutely. And presumably we'll [13:15] turn off some men voters. The only two men that are standing up for Vivek Ramaswamy right now [13:19] are President Trump and J.D. Vance, right? So everybody else is running away from him or keeping [13:24] their powder dry. But the president and the vice president have decided that this is the hill [13:29] that they want to fight on. Yeah. All right, Ben, let me turn to you, because what we are seeing [13:35] there, you have the polls right there. You see Ben underwater. All women voters, 51 percent choose [13:42] Amy Acton, 47 percent choose Vivek Ramaswamy. Among women, it's 55 and 43. So you can see that [13:49] disparity. But let me ask you about the Cook Political Report, which today moved 19 races [13:55] in Democrats' favor. Talk a little bit about the implications of that. That's 48 races over the past [14:01] several weeks moving in the direction of Democrats. So these conversations are linked, [14:05] right? We just had this conversation with about Ohio. Why John made the astute point here that [14:10] this isn't something that you do when you think you're, you know, up by one or up by two or up by [14:14] three, right? The totality here, you look at these races on the screen. I mean, just I want to get this [14:17] right. This is, you know, Juan Ciscomani, Gabe Evans, Jen Kiggins, Derek Van Orden. These are [14:22] Republican incumbents who are supposed to be the pure toss up of the map. They're in states, [14:28] they're in districts that President Trump won. Look, in Texas, you've got Democrat, [14:31] Vicente Gonzalez. He's in a district that Trump won significantly. This is supposed to be the core [14:36] of any battlefield, the path to the majority. And what we're seeing with all of these shifts is at [14:42] the end of the day, all of these indications are showing that the battlefield is not where [14:46] we thought it was six months ago. It is on Republican turf. So a new data point that just [14:51] popped, Ben, which is that the Cook Political Report just moved the Ohio gubernatorial race from [14:57] Toss-Up to Lean Dem, the significance of that here we are 11 days until Election Day. [15:04] Yeah, I think again, right, it's just every indicator, every, you know, every input here [15:09] is that you, the winds are at the Democrats. I always mess this up. That's good for Democrats, [15:14] right? I don't remember which way the winds are back, right? It's the uphill, downhill thing. [15:18] Yeah, exactly. It gets very confusing. It does. It's for someone like me. But listen, [15:21] at the end of the day, all of the inputs show that the Democrats are doing, you know, [15:25] better than they could have possibly hoped at this moment. But I think, you know, [15:28] listen to the language here. Lean. Nothing is done. And I think that, like, we should talk about [15:34] the reason you're seeing the president barnstorming a state like Florida. Sure, [15:37] it's a state that's closer than he wants it to be. He doesn't want to be up there with Byron [15:41] Donalds, who should probably, they would have hoped would be, you know, cruising here. [15:44] But at the end of the day, they have this theory of the case that they need to bring Republicans [15:48] home. And that's what the president in this last two weeks is about. And I think it's going to be [15:51] interesting to see when a dust all settles, were these Republicans going to come home or not? [15:55] Yeah. And I think one of the questions leading out of that, will the gubernatorial race help or hurt [16:01] the Republican candidate in the Senate race? One of the dynamics will be watching. We have an article [16:05] about that out today. Thank you so much, John and Ben. Great stuff. Really appreciate it. And we're [16:11] going to dive deeper into the fallout from that Ohio ad coming up. But first, President Trump takes [16:15] new action and invokes his emergency powers in an attempt to bring down rising energy costs as oil [16:22] prices climb towards their highest level of the year. Plus, inside the Democrats' effort to hold [16:26] the Kansas governor's mansion in a state Trump carried by more than 15 points. I'll be joined live [16:32] by Democratic gubernatorial candidate Cindy Holscher. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press Now. [16:38] Welcome back. Turning now to the top issue for voters this midterm cycle, the cost of living. [16:56] Rising prices have been driven in large part by elevated fuel prices due to the war in Iran. [17:02] Oil closed above $100 a barrel, while Brent crude, the international benchmark, [17:07] hit a six-month high. Gas is 44 percent higher than before the war, while diesel prices nearly 70 percent [17:14] higher. High diesel costs hitting particularly hard in places like Iowa, where the president campaigned [17:19] yesterday, announcing he was invoking the Defense Production Act to boost gas and diesel production, [17:24] while at the same time insisting the prices would fall soon as the war ends. [17:29] My administration is using Defense Production Act to release $150 million to increase American [17:37] refining capacity to produce more diesel and more gasoline at record levels. [17:45] You're going to have Iran finish very soon. One way or the other, it's almost insignificant to me [17:52] which way, but one way or the other, it's going to be done very soon. And your gasoline prices and [17:58] your oil is going to come tumbling down. It comes as a Russian diesel tanker is on its way to the U.S. [18:06] after the president agreed to a deal to release more Russian fuel into the global market, [18:11] and his administration eased sanctions on Russia in a bid to bring down costs. Let's bring in NBC News [18:17] business and economy reporter, Ali Canal. Ali, thanks so much for joining me on this Friday. Let's [18:21] start on that Russian tanker. It's not set to arrive until after the midterms. But is there [18:27] near enough diesel on that ship to make a dent in the price of diesel in the U.S.? What do you think? [18:33] Well, Kristen, the short answer there is no. And just to put some of these numbers in perspective, [18:38] that one shipment is carrying 300,000 barrels of diesel. Sounds like a lot, right? Well, [18:43] actually, the U.S. consumes 3.8 million barrels of diesel every single day. So this one shipment [18:50] doesn't even satisfy a day's worth of U.S. demand. Now, the Kremlin does say more shipments are [18:56] expected. But the bigger problem here is that global diesel supplies remain incredibly tight. [19:02] Diesel is also produced from crude oil. You were just talking about how crude oil prices [19:07] are firmly above 100 bucks a barrel due to not only the Iran war, but Ukrainian attacks [19:12] on Russian energy infrastructure as well. So all of that in combination going to keep diesel prices [19:18] elevated in the near term. Yeah, really fascinating to watch how that unfolds. The president also invoked [19:24] the Defense Production Act. He says to ramp up refining capacity. What will the impact of that be? [19:31] Yeah, so this is one of many levers President Trump is pulling to try and wrangle these prices. So [19:35] essentially the Defense Production Act. It allows the government to provide funding to boost production [19:41] of critical goods. In this case, gas and diesel. So the Trump administration, it's putting $150 million [19:47] toward expanding U.S. refining capacity to produce more fuel. But the issue here is that these refineries [19:55] are already running near full capacity at the current moment. And even if you bring some of those [20:01] refineries that are sitting idle, if you bring those back online, that actually takes months, not days [20:07] or weeks here. And remember, oil is priced on a global market. So even if eventually we do produce more fuel [20:13] here in the U.S., we're not immune to those supply disruptions happening around the world. So really the only [20:21] main fix here, ending these geopolitical wars. And as you and I know, that's a big if, especially as there are more [20:28] reports out there that the U.S. and Israel plan to attack Iran after the midterms, which would only fuel the [20:34] increases that we're seeing in oil across the board here. [20:37] You're absolutely right, Ali Kanao. Thank you so much for that look. We really appreciate it. Coming up, we'll take you [20:44] inside a fascinating conversation with a group of voters who could decide the balance of power with their views on two of the [20:51] midterms, most polarizing candidates, Michigan Democrat Abdul El-Sayed and Texas Republican Ken Paxton. That's next. [21:00] Welcome back. The fight for control of the Senate will come down to just a handful of races and whether Democrats [21:11] and Republicans can unify their bases, including in Michigan and Texas, which both saw some grueling [21:18] primary fights. As part of our focus group series produced by Syracuse University and Gacius and Sago, [21:24] we spoke to some of those primary voters, starting in Michigan, where voters who supported Haley Stevens [21:29] in the Democratic primary are now weighing whether to support Abdul El-Sayed or his Republican rival, Mike Rogers. [21:37] I just don't trust Rogers. I still lockstep in with Trump. He just goes along. To me, I feel like he's just [21:50] he leans into Trump's world too much for me. Well, Al-Sayed would never get my vote. He is way too [22:00] extremist, and we don't need another extremist in Washington, D.C., especially from the Democratic [22:04] Party that I used to belong to. I just think Rogers is a better candidate. If you have your view of Mike [22:12] Rogers change substantively during the course of the campaign, you have. Isaac, how so? Pretty recently, [22:19] he came out loud and proud and clear and said that the tariffs are hurting Michigan. Up to that point, [22:27] I thought he was just a lockstep Republican following Trump's lead, like all the rest of [22:34] them. But then he was willing to say what is true and obvious, and I respect him for that. [22:42] Yeah, I agree with Isaac. You know, to me, anytime someone's able to come out and come against, [22:47] it's not as if he didn't say anything about not still standing with Trump. But I was definitely [22:52] awakened to hear him speak to something that was not on the same lockstep with Trump and kind of [22:59] pick his own side. Now, similarly in Texas, Democrat James Tallarico is looking to convince voters who [23:06] supported Republican Senator John Cornyn in the primary to choose him over Ken Paxton. Here is some of [23:12] what those Cornyn voters told us. I would say that I'm split down the middle. In this instance, [23:19] I really feel that I am looking at the lesser of two evils, and I'm not sure which that is. [23:25] If it was today, I would probably pick Paxton because I would rather go with the evil I know [23:31] than the evil I don't. I think I'm leaning towards Tallarico a little bit now. Let's change it up, [23:36] get something different. I mean, we've kind of done that. You know, we went back to the old, [23:41] you know, with with Trump. So just kind of, you know, maybe some new fresh blood, [23:45] get in there and do something different. I'm still 50-50. Since I've been voting, [23:49] I've been voting Republican. And right now I'm like embarrassed of saying, you know, Republican [23:58] because, you know, Paxton has so many skeletons in his closet. And I just can't make myself jump [24:09] the fence and go to the other party. Tallarico is from what I know, what I've seen, what I've [24:17] listened to, integrity on legs, pretty much the opposite of what Ken Paxton is. It's not a man [24:26] of integrity. Tallarico, as a Democrat, I don't, he doesn't share my same values. At least the party [24:32] doesn't share my values. I do respect him as a person. I think he has a lot of integrity. [24:37] Joining me now is Margaret Taleb, director of the Syracuse University Institute for Democracy, [24:44] Journalism and Citizenship. Margaret, as always, thanks for being here. [24:47] It's great to be back. [24:48] Here we go. I mean, you and I have been listening to these focus groups of voters for months, but [24:54] now we're 11 days from the midterms. Fascinating conversations. Let's start in Michigan. What were [24:59] your big takeaways from those Haley Stevens voters? [25:02] I mean, wow, there are really interesting contours. One is that many of these independent and [25:08] Democratic voters think Mike Rogers is a pretty good candidate, right? And they have taken note [25:14] of him distancing himself from President Trump, and that is a validating fact for them. That helps [25:19] give them comfort level to think about crossing sides. There are a couple of members of these panels [25:25] who are really impressed by Al-Sayed. They think he's smart. They think he's young. They think he's [25:29] energetic. They think he's got the right distance from Trump. But many of the voters in this panel, [25:35] and for the most part, they were white, are not comfortable with the fact that he is a Muslim [25:42] American and the fact that you heard or you will hear them make reference to Dearborn again and again, [25:48] that they don't want the character of Michigan to become like just a statewide version of Dearborn. [25:54] And it is going to be very difficult for Al-Sayed to change those voters' hearts and minds. The question is, [26:03] how big a section of the electorate are those voters? I mean, this is just a handful of voters. [26:09] They are not necessarily representative of the electorate. And so it just goes to show [26:13] how massively important turnout is going to be in this race. [26:16] And to that point, Al-Sayed's religion has been a big focus, his Muslim identity of this race. I want [26:22] to play a little bit more of the focus group. You referenced it. Let's take a look. [26:25] What is the hesitancy? As an outsider who doesn't live in Michigan, explain to this dummy from the [26:35] East Coast what I don't understand about what's happening. I want to get a sense of it. [26:41] Dearborn has become a Muslim community. And it's not that I'm against the Muslims at all. [26:47] But that's, I mean, my aunt and uncle, they grew up, I was raised in Dearborn, but not anymore. [26:53] Everybody's moving out of Dearborn and they don't even want to purchase a house unless they're Muslim [26:58] now. That's what I feel is happening. And I don't want it to spread to all of Michigan. [27:02] I don't know what it is. The Al-Sayed thing, Dearborn. I'm trying, I'm trying to stop short of [27:08] feeling like, I don't know. I don't want to say racist because I don't want to use that word, [27:13] but it is somewhat giving. Everybody just doesn't like him for a choice that was something that he [27:20] couldn't control. He was born this way. I think that people stop short with him because he's Muslim [27:28] and they're not looking beyond that viewpoint. Or when they look at him, they only think about [27:36] Dearborn, he's a Muslim and that type of thing. I'm not racist. Al-Sayed, he comes across as he just [27:43] wants to represent the Muslims and not the whole Michigan community, not even just the Democratic [27:50] Party, just the Muslim community. Just fascinating to hear those perspectives. Margaret, what were your [27:57] takeaways from what we heard there? Let me tell you, as we were watching these panels, this panel was [28:02] really fun and conversational and easy and different viewpoints, but people all getting along together [28:07] until the conversation turned here and it became quite tense and uncomfortable. And you can see why [28:14] the Rogers and pro-Rogers ads are leaning so hard into this and why President Trump is messaging on [28:22] this notion that if you're Al-Sayed, you're also radical, like these kind of, you know. [28:29] Fear tactics. [28:30] Absolutely. You know why? Because they work, at least with a portion of these voters. And so [28:35] it was quite telling. Again, many of these voters saying Al-Sayed is smart and interesting, [28:40] but using language around the idea of the unknown, sometimes talking overtly about his religion, [28:45] other times not, but just saying, do we really know what we're getting? Again, I think for a [28:50] candidate, it is with voters who feel that way, hard to change hearts and minds, and that Rogers has [28:57] been successful about moving away from Trump and saying to them, hey, I'm a good alternative. I don't [29:02] know where this is going to land. One of the most interesting parts of this conversation was the calculus of [29:07] one voter who actually wants Democrats to take back over, but wants the Michigan governor's race [29:14] for the Democrat to win by a much larger margin, thinks Al-Sayed is going to win, wants to be by [29:19] a little margin to kind of contain him. Again, a lot of calculus going on. [29:24] Well, and let's talk about the voters in Texas, the John Cornyn voters, really fascinating to hear [29:30] them. And you could hear the party loyalty that, well, I do have some problems with Ken Paxton, [29:36] but ultimately are some of those voters just going to come home? Not some problems, a lot of [29:40] problems. Nobody on these panels, none of these Republicans and independents likes Ken Paxton, [29:45] thinks he's a good guy, thinks they can trust him, thinks they know what they're getting, thinks that, [29:49] you know, this is who they wanted to vote for. And yet that pull to keep Republicans in power, [29:55] to keep Texas Republican, and to say, many of them saying they really like Tellurico, [30:00] they think he's Christian, they think he's fairly moderate, but he's not a Republican. [30:05] It's that but. Yeah. All right. We'll have to see how that party loyalty plays out in the final count. [30:12] Really interesting. [30:12] So fascinating. Thank you for bringing this, as always, Margaret. So much to talk about. We [30:17] could go on for the rest of the hour. [30:18] Talk after the election. [30:19] Exactly. Thank you. Appreciate it. Great to see you, as always. And you can dive deeper [30:23] into the 2026 midterms with access to polling, early vote data, export analysis, and much more [30:29] exclusive content, all with an NBC News subscription. Just scan the QR code on your screen now or visit [30:35] NBCnews.com slash subscribe. We'll be right back with more Meet the Press now. [30:41] Welcome back. Turning now to another major battleground this election, Kansas, [30:53] where Democrats are hoping to keep the governor's mansion. Democrat Cindy Holscher and Republican [30:58] Ty Masterson, who is backed by President Trump, are vying to replace term-limited Democratic [31:03] Governor Laura Kelly. The most recent poll has Masterson ahead by five points. That lead is [31:09] just slightly outside the margin of error. And joining me now is State Senator Cindy Holscher, [31:14] the Democratic candidate for governor of Kansas. Thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. [31:19] Thank you for having me here. [31:21] Well, it's great to have you here. Boy, 11 days to go. State Senator Holscher, the Cook Political [31:26] Report, which rates these races, has shifted a number of governor's races towards Democrats in [31:32] recent weeks. They have not shifted the Kansas race. It remains lean Republican. As you know, [31:38] it's a state Donald Trump won by 16 points last election. What makes you think you can win this state? [31:47] Well, thank you again so much for having me. I will tell you this, [31:50] all of the recent polling data shows that this race is neck and neck, despite the fact that my [31:55] opponent has spent close to $20 million trying to defeat me, which is really an unheard of figure [32:01] for a gubernatorial race in Kansas. So the fact of the matter is this race is tied. We have 11 days [32:08] left. And frankly, you know, we are pushing it all the way to make sure we come up, come away with a [32:13] victory. And what I will tell you is what we're seeing across the state voters. I mean, they're struggling [32:18] with an affordability crisis, high gas prices, the tariffs and the beef imports are hurting our [32:25] farmers and our families across the state. And people, the voters of Kansas are absolutely tired [32:31] of politicians like my opponent, who consistently serves billionaires and corporations. I'm here [32:37] fighting for the people, young and old, urban and rural. I'm working for Kansans. [32:41] Let me ask you, because President Trump was in Kansas on Monday to stump with your opponent. [32:46] Here's a little bit of what he had to say. Take a look. [32:50] Cindy Holcher is the most radical candidate ever to run for Kansas governor. Laura Kelly, [32:57] your governor, said Holcher is far too extreme for this position. [33:01] Now, we should note that Governor Kelly has endorsed you. She did express some concerns during [33:07] the primary that some of your positions were too far left. What is your response to this broader [33:13] suggestion that you're too far left, too liberal for Kansas? [33:18] Oh, yeah. You know what? You're absolutely right. Governor Kelly endorsed me the next day after [33:22] the primary, putting her confidence in me, saying that I am the candidate for the job. [33:26] You know, what we hear from Donald Trump, as well as Ty Masterson, my opponent, [33:30] just a lot of culture wars and throwing things out there that aren't accurate. [33:35] Because here's the true picture. Every race I have won has been in a red district. [33:40] Republicans have been voting for me and electing me. And just a couple of weeks ago, [33:44] we rolled out Republicans for Cindy, a group of 21 elected officials, current and former, [33:50] that worked with both me as well as my opponent. And these are Republicans who chose me over someone [33:56] in their own party because they know his agenda and that he is dangerous and extreme. [34:01] They chose me. In fact, that list of Republicans for Cindy grew to over 100 last week. We keep [34:07] bringing people on board, Republicans, independents and Democrats, because I am fighting for all [34:11] Kansans. Let me ask you, because you take me to my next question. In order to win, you will need [34:17] Republican voters. You will need Trump supporters to turn out and vote for you. Is there an area where [34:23] you could work with President Trump, do you think? Oh, yeah. You know what? I am always going to work [34:29] with anybody of any party if it's a benefit to Kansas, our economy and our people. But I will [34:36] draw the line in terms of things like these beef imports and these tariffs that have been hurting [34:41] our people and driving up costs. But yeah, and I have a history of collaboration. My very first [34:46] term in office, I was co-founder of the Women's Bipartisan Caucus. We're the group that put together [34:51] the bill that ended the disastrous plan that was destroying our state. We helped get the state back [34:56] on track. And since that time, I've had a history of working with the other side. I'm actually the [35:01] most effective Democrat in the Senate and more effective than 90 percent of the Republicans. [35:05] And there's a lot of them. So I have that history of collaboration. And I think it's partly because [35:09] I come from the farm. I come from a union family and a military family. That's a lot of points of [35:15] commonality and areas where we're going to work together. Is there a policy where you agree with [35:22] President Trump, one of his policies that you support? You know, I'm sure there have been some, [35:28] but I will tell you the biggest thing that is concerning me right now that is also concerning [35:32] people across the state are data centers. And this is something that comes up at every town hall. I've [35:39] done over 80 of them across the state. This comes up time and time again. And here's what I'm hearing [35:44] from people. They want reasonable guardrails in place. And you know what? We will welcome and explore [35:49] economic potential in terms of development. But the guardrails people are looking for. And I issued a call [35:56] for a pause to make sure we all get on the same page to ensure we have guardrails for efficient water [36:01] usage, efficient energy usage, and to make sure those local jobs manifest. Now, my opponent on the other [36:08] side, you might as well call him AI Ty. He benefited from over $800,000 of campaign money, fueling his campaign in the [36:17] primary to get him through the race and on to the general. If he has his way, you know, he's not going to have [36:23] guardrails in statute. You know, we'll see data centers in every cornfield and on every corner because that's who he's [36:30] aligned with. Well, let me stick up for the people. Let me ask you and let me follow up with you on that point, because [36:35] President Trump has said that data centers ultimately, he thinks, will benefit local economies. If you believe there was a [36:42] financial benefit to Kansans, would you greenlight construction of data centers? Oh, certainly. And they can be a [36:49] benefit. We've had data centers built that have been done so responsibly. And really, that's what the people are looking [36:55] for, making sure it's done responsibly. You know, you get some bad actors out there. Sometimes that's not what happens. But [37:01] again, we want to make sure it's efficient water usage and efficient in terms of energy usage. People can't handle their utility [37:09] rates going up at this point. And by all means, you know, I come from a union family. I want these to [37:14] be good, solid union jobs in terms of construction. So like I said, that's what I'm fighting for. [37:20] Let me ask you a broader picture about affordability. You have promised to bring down costs for Kansans, [37:26] including at the pump. Would you support a temporary suspension of the state gas tax if you were elected? [37:32] You know, here's what I know we have to do here in the state in terms of affordability. [37:38] We have lack of an access to affordable health care, child care and housing. That's what's [37:43] hurting our people the most. So there are avenues for us to pursue here to make those things more [37:48] affordable. But a big issue here has been our property taxes. We have to get those under control. [37:54] My opponent has accused me of not addressing this issue. But here's what's funny about that. [37:59] My opponent has been president of the Senate for the past six years with a super majority. [38:04] He can pass anything he wants, but hasn't brought property tax relief, hasn't addressed the health [38:11] care issue in terms of access to affordable health care, hasn't addressed the issues in terms of [38:16] affordable child care and housing. These are all huge problems that are within our power to address. [38:21] And he has been an absolute failure. You know, his biggest, quote, success has been the Brownback [38:27] experiment, which nearly destroyed our state. And he wants to take us back to that, [38:32] which would be absolutely devastating for Kansas. [38:35] All right. Senator Cindy Holscher, we are out of time, but we appreciate your joining us. Thank [38:39] you so very much. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Coming up next, we'll dive deeper into [38:45] the growing bipartisan backlash against that controversial attack ad in the Ohio gubernatorial [38:50] race. The panel's next. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press Now. [38:54] Welcome back. The panel joins me now. Rob Blewey, president and executive editor of The Daily Signal. [39:08] Josh Orton, former senior advisor to vice president Kamala Harris and president of Demand Justice. [39:14] Julia Manchester, White House correspondent for The Hill and NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent, [39:20] Ryan Nobles. Thanks to all of you for being here. Really appreciate it. Julia, let me start [39:26] with you. What an extraordinary news cycle with this attack ad in Ohio. Vivek Ramaswamy running this ad [39:35] that features the mom of Amy Acton. It has sparked a national debate, and I want to get to that. [39:40] But I want to get to the breaking news that we reported earlier this hour, which is that Cook [39:44] just moved this race from toss-up to lean Dem. What do you make of it? How significant is it, [39:50] not just for the gubernatorial race, but potentially for the Senate race as well? [39:53] It's incredibly significant because we have heard Republicans in Ohio really this week repeatedly say [39:59] this could be not necessarily a death knell, but something that could hold the Ramaswamy campaign [40:04] back and hurt John Husted, who has a very competitive race against Sherrod Brown in the Senate. So [40:10] it's going to, I think, obviously present that choice to voters. Not great for Republicans. It's [40:16] created a divide among Ohio Republicans with much of the establishment in Ohio. Mike DeWine, [40:22] for example, former Governor John Kasich, Houston, siding with this idea of taking down the ad. [40:31] But then you have the leaders of the Republican Party, like President Trump and Vice President [40:37] Vance, telling Ramaswamy to keep fighting. And I think it's really starting to have a national [40:43] impact. The fact that Ashley Henson had to say before President Trump visited that state for a rally, [40:49] like distance herself from a race in Ohio, she's running in Iowa, I think speaks volumes. [40:54] It's a great point. Let's actually run some of the sound from Ashley Henson. Ryan, I'm going to [40:58] get your analysis on the other side. Let's look. It's terrible. I think about it as a mom. And [41:06] you think about your kids surviving childhood sexual abuse and having to relive that trauma on [41:11] TV again. I think it's absolutely terrible. And I think they should take the ad down. [41:15] Ryan, what are the implications for the down ballot races in Ohio, but for these other [41:21] Republicans? So the first thing is we're not going to know if this strategy works until after. [41:24] That's right. Right. But I haven't found a Republican or Democrat operative to tell me [41:28] that this isn't a play for a campaign that feels like it is behind. You do not throw this Hail Mary [41:33] and take this very risky step of putting out an ad like this, which was, of course, going to bring [41:38] all kinds of controversy next to it unless you thought you were behind. And right now, the vibe [41:44] around this is not a positive one for Ramaswamy. Now, I don't think you're going to find somebody to [41:49] answer a poll to say that this this ad moved them in a direction toward Ramaswamy. And so it's [41:55] difficult to calculate it at this point. But it demonstrates the position that Republicans find [42:00] themselves in races all across the country. They are behind. They need a magic bullet with less [42:05] than a week to go. And this is the magic bullet that Ramaswamy and his team thought they would [42:09] play. But to your point, Kristen, and your point, Julia, there's way more than just the Ramaswamy [42:13] campaign that is being impacted by this. Obviously, the campaigns in Ohio are. But the fact [42:18] that Ashley Henson has to answer this question in Iowa, that's not a place that she wants to be [42:22] this close to election. And I think, Rob Lui, Republicans are going to be asked to answer for [42:27] this ad from now until Election Day. And therein lies the problem. President Trump's been defiant. [42:33] What do you make of the response that we're hearing from other Republicans? [42:37] Kristen, I'm not surprised to hear the response from President Trump or Vice President Vance that [42:41] they're standing by their candidate. Obviously, the situation in Ohio is not where it should be for [42:46] Republicans. That's a state that President Trump won pretty easily. At the same time, I mean, [42:50] here we are talking about Vivek Ramaswamy all week, not necessarily the headlines that he probably wants. [42:55] And I think that that goes to the heart of what this closing message really needs to be for [42:59] Republicans. It needs to be about what they've accomplished over the past two years, selling [43:03] the American people on the agenda that President Trump ran on originally in 2024 and saying, [43:09] do you really want to go back to four years of Joe Biden and the inflation that we experienced and all [43:14] the other immigration problems that the country saw and rejected when they put President Trump back [43:19] in the White House? Josh, what do you make of Amy Acton's response? And I think Ryan raises an [43:24] important point. We don't know what the overall impact is going to be until people vote. [43:29] We don't. But I think that Amy Acton's response is the right one. And I also think, [43:33] you know, she has the ability now to pivot back to the message about economics and costs [43:37] that actually matter to voters in Ohio. The one thing that you have to think of if you're going to run an [43:43] ad like this and it's going to draw a whole lot of attention across the country, is that conversation [43:47] that you're going to force beneficial to your race and to your party? This was not. This was the [43:52] biggest unforced error we have seen yet this cycle. Well, let's talk about some other races that were [43:59] when there are so many of them that we're watching closely, but in Michigan and Texas. And we have [44:03] this group of voters that we spoke to as part of our focus group. And what's notable about them, [44:09] Haley Stevens supporters in the primary in Michigan, John Cornyn supporters in the primary [44:15] in Texas. I'm going to play a little bit of what they had to say about President Trump and get [44:18] everyone's reaction on the other side. Take a look. When I see President Trump on TV, I feel what? [44:26] I'm looking for a word or a phrase. Everybody have one? Okay. Awesome. Kimberly, please go first. [44:37] Angry. All right. Danny. Disgust. Isaac. Exhausting. Michael. Frustrated. Kathleen. [44:50] Frustration. Aaron? Two of them. It's togetherness and then, you know, frustration. [45:03] Togetherness and frustration. Right. Okay. Got it. And Ruth? Frustration. [45:09] Ryan, what's so interesting about these voters, they are going to be some of the voters who [45:16] determine the outcome in states like Michigan and Texas. What do you make of what we heard from [45:20] them? Well, the Republicans have found themselves in a position that started in 2016 and has continued [45:25] over the last 10 years of American politics, and that is you ride or die with Donald Trump. [45:29] And every candidate across the country has made a calculated choice that there is just [45:33] no way that you can abandon Donald Trump and his voters and have any shot at winning as [45:37] a Republican. Well, now when you find yourself in a position where, you know, your driving [45:41] force is at a 35 to 38 percent approval rating, that puts you in a very difficult position to [45:46] get out from under it. And what I think is most representative in what we heard from this focus [45:50] groups is that American voters right now are sick of talking about Donald Trump. [45:55] They would prefer to talk about these kitchen table issues that frustrate them. And that's [45:59] not necessarily a bad place for Republicans to play because they're not happy with Democratic [46:03] policies when it comes to these issues either. But unfortunately for Republicans, they've placed [46:09] themselves in a position where everything is about Donald Trump. He owns the economy right [46:13] now. So as a result, even though the Democratic brand is not that strong, that puts them in [46:17] a better position heading into November. Julia, what do you make? Well, look, it's interesting [46:21] listening to Republicans. They tell me, you know, this is all about turnout for them and [46:26] Donald Trump is their biggest turnout mechanism. But I think Democrats could also say the same [46:31] thing, that Donald Trump is their biggest turnout mechanism. We, you know, heard some very visceral [46:36] reactions there. But I think the exhaustion part of it, to Ryan's point, is, you know, a huge [46:42] part of this here. I mean, it's interesting to see how someone like Mike Rogers has played [46:48] this. I mean, he's tied himself to Donald Trump in many ways, but he's also walked the fine [46:53] line in terms of distancing himself from Donald Trump without saying that outright. So they [46:59] walk a very fine line. Ken Paxson, I would say, is in a very different kind of situation. [47:04] He's distanced himself from Donald Trump behind closed doors, which has very much become public. [47:09] But still, I think there is this need, this feel for Republicans because of this turnout [47:14] strategy that they need to have the president. Yeah. I mean, Rob, what do you make of what [47:18] we heard and this strategy that we've seen from President Trump? He's been out on the [47:22] trail every single day. He has. And he's he's trying to remind voters that the high costs [47:26] that we're seeing at the gas station and grocery stores are the result of his efforts to to really [47:32] prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon. But I think a lot of those Republican voters are [47:36] saying, couldn't you have wrapped this up sooner? And did we even have to engage in this war to [47:40] begin with? Because that has led to a lot of the problems. I mean, if you go back prior to the [47:45] strikes on Iran, I mean, the economy was was humming at a pretty good pace, particularly with [47:49] the companies and the the investment that we were seeing in the United States of America. And I really [47:53] do think that we'll see strong fourth quarter growth. But I don't know that the Americans who are [47:58] experiencing that pain at the pump right now are necessarily going to be all that enthusiastic [48:02] toward Republicans. And that's what Trump's trying to reverse. Josh, let's talk about what we're going [48:06] to see in these closing days of the race from where President Barack Obama is going to be out [48:09] in Michigan, trying to shore up support for Abdul Al-Sayed, particularly among African-American [48:15] voters. President Trump will be in Michigan as well. We're still waiting to figure out if he'll [48:19] actually be with Mike Rogers. But how do you see these closing days? Yeah, I was just saying, [48:24] you know, Abdul Al-Sayed has three circuits coming into Michigan. They're going to help him. [48:29] Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama and Donald Trump. And I think the problem with Trump is it's not just a [48:34] reaction to what he's saying now. This is 10 years coming of a level of expectations people had of a [48:40] $5,000 dividend check for the tariffs of a 10 percent cap on interest rates, on credit cards, [48:45] on lowering gas prices on day one, falling to what is actually true and what people are experiencing [48:49] every time they go to the grocery store. This is an albatross that cannot be avoided in these states. [48:56] And look, there's a lot of distraction. There's a lot of Islamophobia in Michigan. But ultimately, [49:01] I think people are going to vote depending on their pocketbooks in the economy. [49:04] Ryan, all of this comes, you just got back from a reporting trip out in Washington State, [49:09] House Speaker Mike Johnson stumping for critical House race there. What did you make of the voters [49:15] you talked to there? Well, one of the reasons I wanted to go to Washington State is that it is a [49:20] very blue state, right? And there's this real anti-incumbency vibe that's happening in the country right [49:26] now. And it's different in a place like Georgia, where there's a Republican governor or Republican [49:30] president, than it is in a place like Washington, where Democrats control every stage of state [49:36] government. And what I found talking to voters there is that they're very dissatisfied with their [49:40] Democratic governorship as well. And in a particular race, the district we focused on [49:44] is the third district in southwest Washington, Marie Glusenkamp-Perez, looking to be reelected for the [49:50] third time. She has a much more mainstream Republican candidate that she's running against. [49:54] And while she's talking about Donald Trump, he's talking about the leadership in Olympia. [49:59] John Braun is his name. And so, you know, it's interesting. It's one of the areas where [50:05] Republicans have kind of an opening to say, you know, in these particular districts, [50:10] the Democrats are part of the problem and at least give our guy a shot. [50:13] Well, I think it's such an important point, that anti-incumbency feel that we're tracking in all [50:19] of these key races. Thank you so much for a great Friday conversation, Julia, Josh, Rob and Ryan. [50:24] Really appreciate it. And we'll be back Monday with more Meet the Press Now. And if it's Sunday, [50:29] it is Meet the Press on your local NBC News station. I'll be joined exclusively by California Senator [50:34] Adam Schiff, Michigan Republican Senate candidate Mike Rogers and Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. [50:40] NBC News now continues right now.