Meet the Press NOW — July 7

[0:01] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Gabe Gutierrez in Washington, where we're tracking breaking news amid the intensifying fallout facing the Democratic Senate candidate in Maine, Graham Plattner, as now every major Democrat in Congress who endorsed him has rescinded that endorsement and is calling for him to drop out. [0:28] It all comes after his former girlfriend, Jenny Rassikot, publicly came forward with allegations that Plattner raped her in 2021. Plattner denied the allegations of non-consensual behavior in a video released on X yesterday, as Rassikot detailed the alleged assault in an interview on CNN. [0:48] Did Graham Plattner rape you? [0:51] By definition, yes. Absolutely. [0:55] Because he had non-consensual sex with you? [0:58] Yeah. [0:58] Forced himself on you, even after you had told him no and fought him off? [1:04] Yeah. He violated multiple layers of consent that night by coming into my home when I asked him not to and by advancing on me when I told him not to. And furthermore, another incident that I had told him not to do. And... [1:23] With protection? [1:24] Yeah. Yeah. [1:26] Rassikot also addressing why she chose to speak out now. [1:30] There are going to be people, maybe even his campaign, certainly his supporters, who say this is politically motivated. What would you say to that? [1:40] I couldn't disagree more. That was actually one of the reasons that I didn't come out. [1:47] Because you agree with his politics? [1:49] I do. I really agree with his politics. I think we need somebody with those political stances and who are willing to do the work. [1:57] And, you know, I see his political videos. They get me fired up as well. [2:02] I understand why people want someone like him in office. You know, and I felt like me coming forward would essentially potentially take that away. [2:11] And I felt really uncomfortable with the responsibility of and the weight of my story and what that might do. [2:19] A source familiar with Plattner's thinking tells NBC News that he's still undecided about whether to drop out of the race. [2:27] Explosive allegations coming nearly a month after he handily won the Democratic primary despite months of other controversies around his candidacy, [2:35] including allegations from multiple women of aggressive and physical behavior. [2:40] Plattner denied allegations of abuse and rallied supporters around the party's mission to oust Republican Senator Susan Collins and retake the Senate majority. [2:49] But his support in Washington and beyond has now evaporated. [2:54] Today, his top backer, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, saying in light of these very serious allegations, I have recommended that he step aside. [3:03] Senator Elizabeth Warren, who campaigned with Plattner in Maine, saying the best path forward is for Graham Plattner to step aside as the Democratic nominee [3:11] and address these serious allegations outside this Senate race. [3:16] And Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who endorsed Plattner after June's primary, warning Plattner that the powerful campaign arm of the party [3:24] will not invest in the Maine Senate race if Plattner remains on the ballot. [3:30] Other Democrats speaking out publicly as well. [3:33] I think Graham Plattner needs to get out of the race. [3:36] Today? [3:38] As soon as possible. [3:39] What happens for Maine Democrats? [3:41] That's obviously a very important seat. [3:42] Well, there's an opportunity to fill that seat. [3:44] We saw that the governor had stepped up earlier. [3:48] I think there are other potential candidates. [3:50] And the sooner that he gets out, the sooner we can fill the seat. [3:53] These allegations are serious. [3:56] They're credible. [3:57] They're unacceptable. [3:58] The Maine Democratic Party has called for him to withdraw. [4:01] I agree. [4:02] I'm not a voter in Maine, but I won't support Graham Plattner going forward. [4:06] Well, my focus has been on my race in North Carolina, but this goes beyond politics. [4:12] These are disturbing allegations, and I believe that he should drop out of this race. [4:19] Today, NBC News was on the ground in Maine, talking to voters about their reaction to the allegations. [4:26] While he's an attractive candidate, he has been stumbling repeatedly. [4:34] Do you think he should drop out of the race? [4:35] I do. [4:35] I would tell him, nice try, buddy, but get out. [4:39] You're carrying too much baggage. [4:41] You're going to cost the election. [4:42] Do you feel like at this point you should drop out of the race? [4:46] I don't know. [4:48] I mean, I don't know, because, again, like, he stands accused of some pretty ugly things. [4:54] So far, he's addressed all of them in a way that I'm like, okay. [4:58] But then this one he's denying, so I don't know if that should be allowed to be played out before he has to make a decision. [5:05] Do you think if he stays in the race, he hurts Democrats' chances of defeating Susan Collins? [5:10] Absolutely. [5:11] Would you like to see Susan Collins out of office? [5:14] Um, not for Graham Plattner. [5:16] And joining me now is Saha Kapoor, senior national political reporter, John Allen, senior national politics reporter, and Jessica Taylor, Senate and governor's editor at the Cook Political Report. [5:30] Thank you all so much for joining me. [5:31] Saha, what else do we know about the Plattner's campaign's thinking of all this? [5:35] Do you float getting out of the race if you don't actually intend to? [5:38] Not usually, no. [5:39] It's been more than 24 hours since Graham Plattner cracked open the door to potentially getting out of the race, and we don't have an announcement. [5:46] What is he waiting for? [5:47] Since then, he has been bleeding support left and right from the party. [5:50] Pretty much all of his prominent endorsers have fled. [5:53] And we have a brand-new article published just moments ago that I worked on with our colleagues Mel Zanona, Brennan Leach, and Bridget Bowman. [6:00] And one of the things we report in there is that, as of this morning, Plattner was undecided on whether to get out. [6:06] And one of the things he's considering is that he wants a replacement who shares his vision and values. [6:11] In his view, he didn't fight all this way and take this anti-establishment route for this progressive set of values and vision that he cares about to drop out and have an establishment candidate take his place. [6:22] So that's one of the things that he's considering. [6:25] So he feels he has leverage here still? [6:28] Well, in a way, he does, because the main state law says he has until this coming Monday, July 13th, to decide whether to drop out. [6:36] If he doesn't, then he's stuck on the ballot, and Democrats have to deal with him on the ballot. [6:41] So that's the leverage that he has. [6:44] If he doesn't drop out in time, then the Democratic Party can't do anything to force him off. [6:48] What the Democratic Party, what the party establishment, what they believe their leverage is, is that they're essentially trying to signal to him, you're not going to have a campaign. [6:55] You're not going to have any money. [6:56] You're not going to be able to run without any support. [6:59] Do national Democrats have any sort of, like, break open glass plan here? [7:04] What are the options that Chuck Schumer has if he doesn't get out by Monday's deadline? [7:08] Chuck Schumer's task right now is to make abundantly clear that Grant Plattner cannot run a viable campaign. [7:13] What Schumer has done in a joint statement with the DSCC chair, Kirsten Gillibrand, is make clear that they will not spend a penny to fund his campaign, in support of his campaign, to spend any money in Maine to help him win the general election, which is as good as a death sentence against Susan Collins, who's going to have tens of millions of dollars in Republican money. [7:32] They're deeply determined and committed to try to keep that seat. [7:35] So without the money, how is Grant Plattner going to be able to run? [7:38] Without any prominent endorsers in the Senate who have all fled, how is he going to be able to make the case that he could be an effective senator? [7:45] Some of the endorsers who supported him and have now fled, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Kirsten Gillibrand, Elizabeth Warren, Martin Heinrich, Ruben Gallego, Ed Markey, Chris Van Hollen, I can't count a single Senate Democrat who's still supporting him. [7:58] Well, John, Alan, I want to turn to you. [8:01] On the flip side of that question, if Plattner drops out, who could potentially take over? [8:08] You know, there are a thousand flowers in Maine that could potentially bloom. [8:13] A lot of people looking at this, a lot of people being looked at in Maine. [8:16] The one that the progressives have quickly rallied behind is Troy Jackson, the former Maine Senate president who was who had won for governor and lost in the primary. [8:28] A couple of the other candidates that ran in that race and lost in Rav Shah, the former Maine CDC head. [8:36] And then you've also got Congressman Jared Golden, who is retiring, somebody who might be convinced to try to get into this if Plattner gets out. [8:45] But a whole bunch of candidates, Governor Janet Mills, who, of course, lost to Plattner in the primary, a lot of possible candidates, none of them ideal. [8:54] Susan Collins has won five terms in the Senate already. [8:57] You know, she's been there for 30 years for a reason. [9:00] She is difficult to beat. [9:02] And Maine Democrats have not been able to find anybody to beat her in the past. [9:05] So they will be in a quandary, you know, even even if Plattner were to get out right now in a quandary about how to fill that seat with somebody who might actually compete. [9:15] I mean, you know, John, we did have a Republican strategist on the show yesterday who said that the best Democrat to beat Collins is a generic Democrat. [9:23] So, you know, could all this turmoil actually end up helping Democrats if they can find this replacement candidate? [9:32] Yeah, the political graveyard is full of generic Democrat. [9:35] Yeah. [9:35] Yeah, there is no such thing. [9:39] And to the extent that somebody is a generic Democrat, they often lose because they have not offered somebody to the voters that the voters want. [9:47] I mean, I think one of the things that was popular about Plattner, and you hear this from the people behind him, you know, who are looking for a new candidate now, [9:55] is that they liked the platform, the policies that he was pushing. [9:58] I'm not sure that Maine does as a whole like that, but you would think that in this era that you're going to have to find a candidate with some energy, [10:08] with something that makes them tick them, something that connects them to the voters. [10:12] This is, you know, a pipe dream of consultants that you can find candidates who are going to just run fine and be fine and not be the other candidate and win. [10:20] Sometimes that works, occasionally it works. [10:21] But I think the Maine Democrats have their work cut out for them in finding a solution after Plattner. [10:28] Yeah, certainly not a very great bumper sticker, right? [10:30] Keeping it generic, a generic Democrat. [10:33] Gabe, that's if he gets out. [10:36] I mean, as I was just pointing out, he's the one that makes that decision, like Joe Biden in the Democratic presidential nomination in 2024. [10:43] Completely up to him. [10:45] Well, thanks, John. [10:45] Jessica, I want to turn to you on what this means for Democrats' chances in Maine and also for their chances of retaking the Senate. [10:54] Let's start if Plattner stays on the ballot. [10:56] If Plattner stays on the ballot, I think the seat is gone. [11:00] Then I don't see Democrats having a chance. [11:02] Yeah, we would shift it considerably in Susan Collins' direction because National Democrats have already, as Sahil said, [11:09] have already said that they will not spend to try to flip this seat. [11:13] They have distanced themselves from Graham Plattner in every possible way that they can. [11:17] He would be abandoned by the National Party. [11:19] Well, what if he drops out and this, you know, replacement candidate comes in, even from a, you know, progressive cloth? [11:25] Does that candidate, a generic candidate, stand a better chance? [11:29] Absolutely. [11:30] I mean, even before all of this, Graham Plattner had so much baggage that it was, he was teetering right on the edge of being, you know, unelectable. [11:37] And then this latest accusation of rape, I think, was a red line for many voters. [11:42] And, you know, for someone who's talked about being the white working class savior almost, he was really, his approval ratings were upside down in polling. [11:53] He was doing very badly in rural areas of Maine that you need to win. [11:57] This is where other challengers of Susan Collins have, where she has been successful before in holding on to those rural working class voters [12:04] that may have split their ticket and voted Democratic for president but continue to vote for Susan Collins. [12:09] So, realistically, is there a path for Democrats to win the Senate without Maine? [12:15] There is one that exists, but it's a very, very narrow one. [12:17] I mean, the entire path for them to win the Senate is still narrow at this point anyway, because if you flip, North Carolina is the likeliest to flip at this point. [12:26] We have that race, that open seat race rated likely, excuse me, lean Democrat. [12:30] Maine should be the next on the list. [12:33] Without that, they, with Maine, they still have to flip two states that Donald Trump carried by double digits. [12:39] If you don't include Maine on that, they have to flip three states that Donald Trump carried by double digits. [12:43] Neither of those scenarios is ideal. [12:46] Yeah, quite a tall order there. [12:47] Where do you expect Democrats will focus their resources if they cut Maine loose? [12:51] I would look to Iowa. [12:52] I think that, you know, beyond the next possible are two seats that we have in toss-up, which is Ohio and Alaska, and those are must-wins to get to four. [13:01] But if you need that fifth seat if something happens in Maine, Iowa is a much cheaper alternative. [13:07] They have a very solid candidate there in State Representative Josh Turek, who has a very compelling personal story. [13:13] He's a former Paralympian in a wheelchair running against Ashley Henson, a Republican congresswoman who is running a very strong campaign. [13:21] But I think there are some seeds of discontent in Iowa this cycle, dealing with the economy and with agriculture prices, that Iowa, there's also three congressional seats that are very competitive, and the governor's race is a toss-up as well. [13:36] So I would look to Iowa. [13:37] Texas might make a play for that, too, right? [13:38] Texas is so expensive. [13:40] I put Iowa ahead of Texas right now. [13:42] Interesting. [13:42] And, Sal, I'll finish with you. [13:43] How loud do you expect this drumbeat to get over the next coming days? [13:48] Extremely loud, because this is kind of the prisoner's dilemma that the Democratic establishment and Graham Plattner are caught in. [13:54] He won't have a viable campaign if he runs, as Jessica was pointing out. [13:57] He has an extremely slim path to victory, but it's his choice. [14:02] By law, he's entitled to this nomination. [14:04] He did win it, and nobody can force him to get out. [14:07] So if he can extract something in exchange for stepping out, this seems to be the negotiation. [14:12] This seems to be the Cold War that he's stuck in. [14:14] But, like I said, the National Democrats have made abundantly clear, including Bernie Sanders, who, when I spoke to Graham Plattner in Maine on the ground, he said Bernie Sanders is kind of his political idol. [14:22] One of the reasons he's running is to mirror his style of politics and not Bernie saying, get out. [14:26] That's right. [14:27] Sahil, Jessica, thank you so much for joining us. [14:30] And before we go to break, we should note, if you or someone you love is experiencing sexual violence, you're not alone. [14:36] Call the number on your screen now. [14:38] That's 1-800-656-4673 or visit rain.org to connect with a trained professional. [14:46] Help is out there. [14:48] And coming up, we're digging deeper into the Democratic Party's scramble in May. [14:52] As Plattner's embattled candidacy threatens to upend the party's midterm strategy, top House Democrat from a battleground state response. [14:59] Plus, Iran launches a new volley of attacks on ships in the Strait of Hormuz using drones and high-speed missiles as President Trump meets with NATO leaders. [15:09] We are live in Turkey covering that summit and the latest out of the Middle East. [15:14] You're watching Meet the Press Now. [15:15] Stay with us. [15:23] And welcome back. [15:24] Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. [15:27] Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now. [15:30] Let's start with Graham Plattner. [15:32] As we've mentioned, a number of Democrats have called on him to drop out of the race. [15:36] Do you agree? [15:37] Should he drop out? [15:40] So, Gabe, good to be with you. [15:42] And many people know that I raised concerns as early as May. [15:48] Yes, I do think that he should drop out. [15:51] And I've been very clear. [15:52] I'm not a voter in Maine. [15:54] I'm a voter in Michigan. [15:55] But I had very serious concerns in May. [15:58] And when someone's had a pattern, which this has been, people need to listen. [16:05] And, you know, I said to people, I didn't sleep last night because I keep thinking we're making progress. [16:12] But why, again, did everybody give a hard time to their survivors who talked about what happened to them? [16:20] And I want to see someone in the United States Senate representing Maine that is willing to stand up to the president and isn't going to be a rubber stamp. [16:32] But I've had concerns for months. [16:35] Some of the people that, quite frankly, yelled at me for saying what I said have now said he should step aside. [16:43] And I think we need to take a long, hard look at why it took two months to get to where we are today. [16:47] It sounds like you're really wrestling with this. [16:49] And I hope he is going to resign. [16:51] Yeah, it sounds like you're really wrestling with this, I hear. [16:53] I hear it in your voice. [16:55] I mean, you said you thought about it a lot last night. [16:59] Well, what I'm angry about is I did express. [17:01] People asked me, I did do gotcha questions. [17:03] Are you supporting them? [17:05] And I wouldn't. [17:06] I said that I was concerned. [17:07] I spent my whole life fighting for people that have been, that are survivors of domestic assault and sexual assault. [17:15] I have lived both in circumstances. [17:19] And, you know, I don't, we got a sexual predator in the White House. [17:25] I am concerned about that. [17:27] But I think as Democrats, we've got to fight fire with fire. [17:30] But at the same time, there are certain values that we have to have and have to be willing to stand up to. [17:37] And a lot of people were uncomfortable with doing that. [17:41] And here we are today in the mess that we are in. [17:45] Right. [17:45] Well, Congresswoman, I want to play what you said yesterday right after that news broke of that latest accusation. [17:51] I will always be concerned about domestic violence allegations, sexual assault allegations. [18:01] But also, we got a man in the White House that's a predator, has been convicted of sexual assault. [18:08] And people's lives are being impacted by this every single day. [18:14] So it's a very complicated situation. [18:17] You said it was very complicated. [18:19] What exactly did you mean by that? [18:21] Were you at the time making a case for Plattner possibly staying in the race? [18:27] No. [18:28] What I was, Casey had asked me what I thought. [18:30] And I said, I'm processing it. [18:32] I do believe that I'm not a voter in Maine. [18:35] The people of Maine are the ones that have to decide. [18:39] And at this point, you know, this isn't new. [18:42] This is another revelation that fits into a pattern. [18:47] But because I was so quickly asked, I also, he has, the people of Maine have until July 13th [18:54] to have the ability to replace him on the ballot. [18:57] But I am wrestling with, why did it take people so long to believe him? [19:05] Why did people yell at me? [19:07] And I was yelled at for saying what I said back in May and June. [19:13] And I'm a strong, tough woman who's not afraid to stand up to people. [19:17] So think about what it means to be a survivor and to tell a story and how people go after you. [19:24] We are still living at a time that if women tell the truth, they are the ones that frequently [19:30] get the repercussions. [19:32] And we have to get to a point. [19:34] Due process matters. [19:36] Due process matters. [19:37] But we also, women are afraid to come forward because of what the consequences are when you [19:44] tell people what have happened. [19:47] Congresswoman, Plattner says he's considering the best path forward. [19:51] You just said that you think he should drop out. [19:54] Do you think he will? [19:57] I don't know. [19:58] Part of that, what you played, was also in response to the video that he recorded yesterday. [20:04] And it sounded like he actually understands it's not about him. [20:09] It's about the people of Maine and the Americans who need to have someone who is going to be [20:17] electable and be able to stand up and not be a rubber stamp for what is happening. [20:23] I am not a friend of his. [20:25] I have not talked to him. [20:27] I have people that have been friends of him who are very angry because they believe that [20:32] he lied to him. [20:33] I have no idea what he is going to do. [20:36] And so if he does drop out, where does the race go from here, you think? [20:41] Should Democratic Party officials pick a new candidate? [20:45] I don't think the DSCC should. [20:49] I think the people of Maine. [20:51] They have a Democratic Party. [20:53] They have, from what I'm hearing, many good candidates. [20:56] The voters of Maine are the ones that should pick who they want to send to the United States [21:00] Senate. [21:00] That's what our democracy is. [21:02] So I'm not going to, I'm going to hope it's someone who doesn't have a history of domestic [21:08] or sexual violence. [21:09] But there are a lot of good candidates that I've heard. [21:12] And I think the people of Maine and their leadership in the Democratic Party are the ones that should [21:17] determine who they think is the strongest candidate. [21:21] And the uncertainty in Maine is now making the Democratic Senate race in your state of Michigan [21:25] even more critical than it already was. [21:28] So the race is now a showdown between Congresswoman Haley Stevens and the more progressive Abdul [21:34] El-Sayed. [21:35] Will you be endorsing in this race now that it's down to two candidates? [21:40] Absolutely will not be. [21:41] I will stay neutral. [21:43] I am one of those people that has to bring people together in August to remember what we [21:49] are focused on in November. [21:52] I know both of them. [21:53] I know both of them will be able to defeat Mike Rogers and they, one of them's a constituent, [22:02] one of them's a colleague. [22:03] This is a race that I have deep concerns about and I am going to make sure that we win in Michigan [22:12] in November. [22:12] And this is a purple state. [22:14] None of the elections in Michigan right now are a given. [22:18] We are going to be competitive until election day. [22:21] I want to play one of the recent, or part of one of the recent attack ads against El-Sayed. [22:27] Let's watch. [22:28] Abdul campaigned with anti-Israel radical Hassan Piker. [22:32] He called to abolish private health insurance. [22:35] And he's championing socialist tax hikes with Senator Bernie Sanders. [22:41] You just said that you believe both candidates can win. [22:43] Do you think El-Sayed specifically, though, can weather those types of attacks? [22:49] He's going to have to be prepared to do so. [22:51] But I do believe, look, I like both of these candidates. [22:56] And I know that Donald Trump is loving using the word communist right now. [23:01] And I don't think anyone's going to call me a democratic socialist, though I am a fighter. [23:06] And I got to tell you, I am the, I lead the Medicare for all in the Congress. [23:12] And the Dingles have been fighting for it for a long time. [23:15] So some of the issues that they want to call socialist or communist, there are a lot of [23:20] people who need health care in this country that can't get it. [23:23] That's not a communist issue. [23:24] That's an issue that everybody's got to write. [23:27] And Congresswoman, to that point, do you welcome these democratic socialist candidates, [23:32] who we've seen win in New York and Colorado, into the party? [23:35] Do you welcome them into the party? [23:36] And the Congressional Progressive Caucus, which you, of course, help lead? [23:40] Well, I don't, I'm not, I'm a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. [23:47] I'm not a leader in it. [23:48] So let's be clear on that. [23:49] But the issues I care deeply about, you know, we're, we have a representative government. [23:56] And I hate, by the way, all these labels that we see people use right now. [24:01] But a representative government means that everybody's got a right to have somebody that [24:06] reflects their voice at the table. [24:08] Democrats have a big tent. [24:10] America's got a big tent. [24:11] Republicans have some people that I don't agree with. [24:15] But it's important that everybody feel that there's somebody fighting for them at the table. [24:20] This is who the district elected to send to Congress. [24:24] I remember when everybody in the media tried to demonize AOC. [24:29] And I wasn't, I didn't sponsor the Green New Deal because labor wasn't at that table. [24:33] But she and I worked together. [24:35] And we actually brought labor to the table with environmentalists [24:38] and actually came to agreement on good policies. [24:41] I think there's a lot of people, the media loves the story of let's pit people against [24:46] each other. [24:47] Let's demonize. [24:49] And I look forward to getting to know them. [24:52] I'm going to agree with them on some things. [24:54] I'm going to disagree with them on some things. [24:57] I'm not somebody that's afraid to tell people where I stand and what my position is on an [25:02] issue. [25:03] No doubt. [25:04] Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you so much for your time. [25:09] And up next, we have the takeaways from NATO summit day one, including President Trump's [25:14] new comments on Greenland and threats to remove U.S. troops from Europe. [25:19] Stay with us here on Meet the Press Now. [25:30] And welcome back. [25:31] Turning now to some new developments tied to the renewed tensions between the U.S. and Iran. [25:35] A U.S. official tells NBC News that the U.S. has revoked the general license that has authorized [25:40] the sale of Iranian oil. [25:43] That license had been part of the interim deal to end the war with Iran. [25:46] And it comes after U.S. officials say Iran struck three ships near the Strait of War moves. [25:52] And this all comes as President Trump arrives in Turkey, which borders Iran for a two-day [25:57] NATO summit. [25:58] The president beginning that trip by meeting with Turkish President Erdogan, where he vowed [26:03] to lift U.S. sanctions on Turkey, accused other NATO allies of failing to assist with [26:08] the war in Iran, and threatened to pull U.S. troops from Europe. [26:12] It's a big thing, but we weren't treated well, because we did something in Iran. [26:19] We don't need anybody's help. [26:21] I didn't even want the help. [26:23] But before I asked, they said they wouldn't be there. [26:26] And we've invested trillions of dollars in NATO. [26:31] Why? [26:31] To protect European countries and others, Canada, et cetera. [26:37] But to protect people, countries from, generally speaking, it used to be the Soviet Union, now [26:43] it's Russia. [26:44] And I say that's fine. [26:48] But you would think that they'd be very willing to do something to help us. [26:54] And they really weren't. [26:55] In the case of the United Kingdom, the prime minister, I guess he's no longer there. [27:01] And NBC News White House correspondent Monica Alba joins me now from Ankara, Turkey. [27:05] Also with me is NBC News senior national security correspondent Courtney Kuby. [27:09] Thank you both for joining me. [27:11] Monica, I want to get to you first. [27:12] We'll get to the latest developments there in Turkey in just a moment. [27:15] But I do want to start with that news on Iran. [27:17] How significant is the revocation of that license allowing the sale of Iranian oil? [27:22] And is this a response to these recent attacks by Tehran? [27:28] Yeah, it does appear to be, Gabe. [27:29] And obviously, with the president here in Turkey, in the region, it is perhaps one of the only options [27:35] that he can choose right now that sends this pretty strong message economically, [27:40] though he continues to say whenever he's asked, that he hasn't taken the idea of resuming potentially [27:47] major combat military options off the table. [27:50] He says that if a final deal cannot be reached, that the U.S. will still finish this, quote, [27:56] the hard way. [27:57] But the fact that this waiver, which was put in place for 60 days after there was that diplomatic [28:02] breakthrough with the Memorandum of Understanding, has now been revoked, I do think is significant, [28:07] given that back then this was something that Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said basically [28:12] the U.S. was doing in good faith because they had felt that enough progress was made on negotiations [28:18] with Iran. [28:19] And so they were going to give them this boost economically to be able to sell their oil again. [28:25] So this likely will be met with a lot of anger from the Iranian side of things. [28:30] And then, of course, there could be the potential for an escalation. [28:33] And again, just with the president here in Turkey right now, as you noted, which borders [28:38] Iran and where tensions already are flaring, that could be a significant development, but [28:44] one that I think is meant to kind of add to the economic pressure. [28:49] Remember that it hasn't just been Operation Epic Fury, but Operation Economic Fury. [28:53] And this is part of that strategy from the administration, Gabe. [28:56] And Monica, turning now to NATO, the president threatened to pull American troops from Europe. [29:01] I know there's been talk about this before, but was this just bluster or is there any indication [29:06] that he's going to make good on that threat? [29:10] Well, there's an actual review underway on force posture from the Pentagon. [29:14] We know that that's going to be ongoing for several months to see whether the U.S. actually [29:19] is going to remove additional troops and U.S. forces from Europe. [29:23] We know already that they reduced the posture in Germany by about 5,000 troops, and it is [29:29] possible that in other countries that could happen as well. [29:32] But remember that the president, Gabe, even said that he was considering withdrawing the [29:36] U.S. from NATO overall. [29:38] That's obviously not the case or not what he is going to do here by participating in this [29:43] summit, even though the rhetoric is a little bit more intense, which is, again, what we've [29:48] seen when he discusses troop withdrawal. [29:50] So it's something that he has threatened. [29:51] And it's unclear whether he's actually going to follow through on it beyond what he's done [29:54] so far. [29:55] And, Monica, what's been the reaction to the president's announcement that the U.S. would [30:00] lift sanctions on Turkey? [30:02] And the president also said that he was considering a sale of F-35 fighter jets to Turkey. [30:06] How is that sitting with U.S. allies? [30:11] Yeah, and these two things are connected because the sanctions were put in place initially when [30:16] Turkey purchased a Russian air defense system that really is kind of the crux of the problem [30:22] here with the F-35 stealth fighter jets, because it's possible then that that kind of technology [30:28] from the U.S. side of things, the fear was, could fall into the wrong hands, could potentially [30:33] somehow be used by Russia or by an enemy of the United States. [30:37] And so that is why in the president's first term, he banned the sale of the F-35s and applied [30:42] those sanctions in 2020. [30:44] So the fact that now he is considering lifting those and resuming the sale of these F-35s [30:51] really raised a lot of eyebrows with some of the allies, including, of course, from Bibi [30:56] Netanyahu of Israel, who had this to say specifically about the potential for this. [31:01] Listen. [31:02] Well, as I said, it would destroy the power balance in the Middle East because Turkey, [31:08] I think, has aggressive aspirations. [31:12] So this is not a force for peace and stability. [31:16] And if you give, you know, this kind of radical regime that admittedly smiles to America when [31:24] is necessary or smiles to the president of the United States when is necessary, when you're [31:28] given that power, you're going to see aggression in its wake. [31:36] And one important note here, Gabe, if the president did decide to sell these F-35s again to Turkey, [31:41] Congress could block it. [31:42] So that's a factor in all of this as well. [31:44] Thanks, Monica. [31:44] And Courtney, I want to turn now to you. [31:46] What's your reaction to this revocation of this general license that allowed the sale [31:50] of Iranian oil? [31:51] What impact do you think that might have? [31:52] So it's clearly a response to what Iran was doing today, which one U.S. official said [31:57] was extremely aggressive. [31:58] And that is firing on at least three ships so far that we know about. [32:02] Two, they fired these super high-speed, short-range missiles that struck in each of the ships, [32:09] not causing any casualties, but it did cause extensive damage to both of them. [32:13] And now we know that this was sort of overnight last night. [32:15] We know that today Iran has fired a number of drones. [32:18] One of them struck another commercial ship. [32:20] The U.S. military has been shooting them down, shooting down some drones. [32:23] They did not intercept any of the missiles, though, at this point. [32:26] So this is a direct response to, again, what they're calling this aggressive action. [32:30] And what's really critical here is this is one of the first points in that memorandum [32:35] of understanding. [32:36] So if the U.S. is not—if, in fact, the U.S. is saying Iran is not following through [32:40] on their side, and now the U.S. is revoking some of what they agreed to do, what's the [32:45] next step here? [32:46] OK. [32:46] And you took me on the next question. [32:48] This is an economic response. [32:50] Do we know if the Pentagon is planning any military action in retaliation for this? [32:55] So remember what happened about two weeks ago when Iran started firing on ships? [32:58] The U.S. military responded with strikes inside of Iran, and that's been a pretty consistent [33:02] pattern that we have seen. [33:03] Very targeted strikes. [33:04] Very targeted. [33:05] They were along the Strait of Formus, and this has, again, been the pattern. [33:08] They went after coastal radar sites, drone and missile launch sites. [33:11] So what the military would call pretty proportional reaction to the Iranians' initial attacks on [33:19] those ships. [33:19] What the military has been doing, though, is they take these proportional responses, and then [33:23] they sort of up it just a little bit, right? [33:25] So they go a little step further. [33:27] But again, two weeks ago, when this was the last time this happened, June 26th was the [33:30] last time the U.S. military took strikes that we're aware of inside Iran. [33:33] There was a—both sides sort of came together and decided, OK, we're going to de-escalate [33:37] here. [33:37] It's not 100 percent clear why they have—Iran has started firing again. [33:41] Well, something else that makes us much higher stakes, even if it would be another proportional [33:45] response, the president's in the region right now. [33:47] Right. [33:48] Which is a huge factor. [33:50] Right. [33:50] Courtney Cuber, our national security correspondent, thank you so much. [33:54] And after the break, we're diving deeper into President Trump's high-stakes meeting with [33:58] President Zelensky tomorrow, as the war in Ukraine remains top of mind at this week's [34:03] summit. [34:04] A former U.S. ambassador to NATO is next. [34:07] Keep it right here on Meet the Press Now. [34:11] Welcome back. [34:18] As we noted earlier, President Trump is set to meet tomorrow with Ukrainian President [34:21] Zelensky, the Ukrainian leader telling reporters today that he'll ask Trump for badly needed [34:27] air defenses to fight Russia. [34:29] Tomorrow we will speak about different topics with President Trump and also about this, but [34:35] also what is important today to find from—to find a way how to get—how to get as quick [34:44] as possible, as much as possible, missiles for patriot systems. [34:49] This is the most important thing, and we need it very much, and it's an urgent topic for [34:57] us. [34:57] We see that the weakness of Russia, we feel it, but it's not enough. [35:01] We need more pressure, more anti-ballistics, and more sanctions on Russia. [35:05] The meeting comes as President Trump says he's optimistic Zelensky and Russian President Putin [35:11] will reach a deal to end the war, which is now in its fourth year. [35:16] Joining me now is Ivo Dalder, who served as U.S. ambassador to NATO during the Obama administration [35:22] or Obama administration ambassador. [35:24] Thank you so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now. [35:27] Glad to be here, Gabe. [35:28] Thanks for having me. [35:29] And what is at stake for Ukraine in President Zelensky's meeting with President Trump tomorrow? [35:34] Well, two things. [35:36] One is what you just heard President Zelensky say. [35:40] Ukraine desperately needs patriot air defense missiles to defend against ballistic missile [35:46] attacks that the Russians are launching at an increasing scale, and these are the only [35:51] weapons that can defend against it. [35:53] The fact that the inventory inside Ukraine is becoming smaller and smaller is leading to [35:58] more and more deaths. [35:59] You can see every night the number of casualties in Ukraine is going up. [36:04] So that's job one. [36:06] Job two is to convince the president that now Russia is on the back foot, that Ukraine is [36:13] indeed gaining in this war, which it is by targeting Crimea, by targeting the energy and oil infrastructure [36:22] within Russia, and that this is exactly the time when the United States should come back [36:27] to in support of Ukraine fully and wholesomely in terms of putting economic pressure on Russia [36:35] and trying to convince President Putin to accept a ceasefire at the place of contact where the [36:42] forces are fighting today. [36:44] Ambassador, Zelensky renewed his calls for Ukraine to join NATO. [36:47] Do you see any scenario where that realistically happens? [36:52] Yeah, I do. [36:53] Actually, I do think that ultimately Ukraine will be a member of NATO. [36:57] The reality is that while Ukraine really needed NATO for the last three to four years, in the [37:04] past year or so, it's becoming increasingly clear that NATO needs Ukraine, that if Ukraine were not [37:09] fighting the war that it is fighting, the capabilities the Russians are amassing would be [37:14] far greater that they could amass against NATO. [37:19] The technology, the defense industrial production that the Ukrainians are developing is extremely [37:25] important, not only to fight Russia today, but to help Europe fight or at least deter Russia [37:32] in the future. [37:33] So I think there is a need for Ukraine to become a member of NATO. [37:39] It's not going to happen anytime soon. [37:41] President Trump has made very clear he's not in favor of it. [37:43] And so as long as he's president, I don't think that will happen. [37:46] But one day in the not too distant future, if we are serious about the security of Europe and [37:52] we're serious about the future of Europe, Ukraine should be a member of NATO. [37:57] And now I want to get to a comment that has gotten a lot of attention, raised a lot of [38:01] eyebrows, especially among some U.S. allies, including Israel. [38:05] The president today, very complimentary of Turkey's President Erdogan. [38:10] Let's listen. [38:10] I don't want to sanction friends. [38:13] It's very simple. [38:14] There's plenty of people we can sanction, and we don't want to sanction friends. [38:19] We don't want to sanction friends. [38:22] Ambassador, is Erdogan a friend of the United States? [38:26] Well, Erdogan is the president of a country that is an ally of the United States. [38:30] Indeed, it is a NATO ally. [38:31] So to that extent, it is. [38:32] But he's also a leader who has increasingly ruled through dictatorial and authoritarian means. [38:39] He has arrested the opposition leader, put him in jail on trumped-up charges. [38:45] He has gone after the opposition a whole variety of ways. [38:49] He's put more journalists in jail than anyone else. [38:52] And so if he is Donald Trump's friend, I'm not sure he's a friend of the United States, if we still care about what it means to be an open and democratic society. [39:02] And that, Erdogan is clearly falling short. [39:05] And Ambassador, President Trump today also renewed his desire to acquire Greenland. [39:11] Let's listen to that. [39:12] It was Greenland that, and it continues to be, that should be controlled by the United States, not by Denmark. [39:20] And when they wouldn't go along with it, and with all the money we spent to help them with Russia, and we don't have to spend any money, we could remove all of our soldiers out of Europe. [39:30] Because as you probably noticed, Europe's a very different place than it was 20 years ago. [39:36] A lot different, much different. [39:37] Are you surprised that this remains on the president's radar? [39:42] No, I'm not surprised. [39:43] I think he has not at all changed his mind that he wants Greenland to be part of the United States. [39:49] He wants to be a president who has enlarged geographically the country of the United States. [39:54] The one problem I continue to have with this is the United States is obligated to defend Greenland today because it is a member of NATO, and Greenland is part of NATO. [40:04] And this idea that you can only defend or secure, ensure the security of a territory that you own as opposed to a territory with which your ally is deeply, deeply concerning, particularly if you say so at a meeting where 31 other allies are expecting you to be part of their defense. [40:21] And if the only way to defend a country is to own it, we're really sending a message that we're no longer in favor of the kind of alliances that NATO has been for the last 77 years, and that's sad. [40:33] Ambassador Evo Dalder, thank you so much for your expertise. [40:36] My pleasure. [40:37] And still to come, politics and plot twists. [40:41] We'll get the panel's take on what's already been a pivotal week in the race for Senate control. [40:46] We'll be right back with more Meet the Press Now. [40:58] Hey, welcome back. [40:59] Joining me now is our panel. [41:00] Shelby Talcott, White House correspondent for Semaphore. [41:03] Herbie Ziskan, White House principal deputy communications director during the Biden administration. [41:08] And Sarah Chamberlain, president and CEO of the Republican Main Street Partnership. [41:13] Thank you all so much for joining us. [41:16] Shelby, I want to start with you. [41:18] So the Plattner campaign appears to be collapsing. [41:20] How much longer can he hang in? [41:22] I mean, I cannot imagine that he can hang in there much longer. [41:27] Democrats have been running away from him after this latest allegation. [41:31] It is very clear that they want him to drop out as soon as possible, even Bernie Sanders saying as much, so they can get somebody else in the race. [41:39] And really, there is a limited time for him to be able to do that. [41:42] He has hinted that he would be willing to, but we haven't heard anything from him. [41:46] And so I do think it's only a matter of time before he drops out. [41:49] Herbie, this isn't exactly a candidate who is without scandal. [41:53] Should Democrats have jumped ship well before this primary? [41:57] Yes, and this has been a really sad episode for the Democratic Party. [42:01] This is someone who should have been out of this race long before this brave victim came forward yesterday. [42:07] He should have been out of the race when it was discovered that he had a Nazi tattoo on his chest, that he looked in the mirror every day of his Adele life and kept on his chest. [42:14] He should have been out of the race weeks ago when women came forward and talked about mistreatment, including physical aggression. [42:20] And so I hope there's a lot of soul searching here. [42:22] At the end of the day, this is a winnable race for Democrats, and it's less winnable because the fact that Graham Plattner ran and stayed in so long. [42:29] Talking about soul searching, isn't it, you know, Democratic leadership, is it possible that they just didn't want to be seen as pushing back against a progressive candidate here? [42:37] Were they just, you know, too shy in this case? [42:40] I don't know that this is about leadership. [42:42] I think this is about a lot of voices across the spectrum who were unwilling to stand up and speak out about something that was morally wrong, multiple things that were morally wrong. [42:50] And now we're paying the price. [42:53] Sarah, as the story was breaking yesterday, we spoke with another Republican strategist who said Plattner, that his dropping out could potentially really help Democrats, that they were generic Democrats were pulling very well against Susan Collins. [43:08] Do you agree with that? [43:09] I do agree with that. [43:10] And actually, I'm sorry to see him go. [43:12] I think he's disgusting. [43:14] And I think the women should have believed, been believed right away in the beginning. [43:18] But I think he was the best candidate. [43:20] If you want Susan Collins, as I do, to be reelected and hold the Senate, he would have been the best one for her to run against. [43:27] So I think this is going to be interesting to see who replaces him at this point. [43:30] And he has to drop out before the 13th. [43:33] Right. [43:33] So he's kind of in the driver's seat right now. [43:36] Shelby, you said this was only a matter of time. [43:37] I mean, he is anti-establishment. [43:39] Could he, you know, what if he does stay in? [43:42] What happens to Democrats then? [43:43] I mean, I think that's a disaster for Democrats. [43:45] I think that's the worst case scenario. [43:47] And as you said, that's kind of what Republicans are hoping. [43:50] And I was talking to Republicans because you saw some of these allegations from people saying, well, this is just a Republican oppo and this is all just an attempt to ruin him. [43:59] But Republicans were saying, well, why would we drop this now? [44:02] Why would we release all this now when he still has time to drop out? [44:06] And so they're clearly hoping that he stays in the race. [44:09] There is a chance he does that. [44:10] And that would be, I think, disastrous for Democrats, given all the allegations plus this latest one. [44:18] Herbie, until these most recent allegations, we heard a lot of Democrats defending Plattner and essentially saying that what he was accused of was no worse than either Ken Paxton or Donald Trump. [44:30] Is that type of whataboutism, is that good for the party? [44:34] What's good for the party is to speak up and say the truth. [44:37] And this was someone who was not vetted. [44:39] And when the reports came out about the things in his life that are deeply problematic, some people did speak out and others did not. [44:46] And ultimately, this day was inevitable. [44:48] That given what we've learned about him through the months, given given these deeply problematic things in his past, that he was going to get to a point where the vetting was not going to be good. [44:57] And that's where we're at. [44:58] And I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned here. [45:00] And so what if he does stay in, though? [45:02] He's not. [45:03] You're sure of it? [45:04] The die is passed. [45:05] The dam is breaking, and I think he'll be gone in the next day or so. [45:08] It does show, though, how this is kind of a good litmus test, right? [45:12] Of politics has changed in the past 20 years, and what voters will stomach to vote for their candidate has changed in 20 years. [45:22] And I do think that there was a sense on the Democratic side that, OK, he might have done some bad stuff in his past, and he might have this tattoo, but that's not enough anymore. [45:31] And clearly, there still is a red line that you can't cross. [45:37] But the red line has shifted. [45:38] I think 20 years ago, when the first allegation came out, he would have been gone. [45:41] I agree with you. [45:42] And, Sarah, what do you think this means for the Senate map? [45:45] You know, even without Maine, there is a path for Democrats here. [45:49] Is there a challenge for the Republicans to just get too complacent? [45:53] No, we won't get too complacent. [45:54] We understand what's out there. [45:56] You know, the Dan Sullivan in Alaska is kind of a problem for the Republicans. [46:01] North Carolina is a problem for Republicans. [46:03] Iowa is a problem now for Republicans. [46:06] So there's a lot of states out there that we're getting soft in. [46:09] But we will and we do intend to keep the Senate. [46:12] It's going to be very close. [46:13] But we do have to keep Maine to do that. [46:16] All right. [46:16] Well, Shelby, I want to turn now to Senator Mitch McConnell. [46:19] He's been hospitalized for three weeks now. [46:22] His office has really not provided any update on his condition. [46:25] What are you hearing from the Hill about his condition? [46:28] I mean, I think there's a lot of concerns. [46:29] We have heard that lawmakers have spoken to him. [46:32] But I think it's really interesting that we really haven't heard much from his team. [46:35] And it is a huge concern. [46:37] And the big thing that I've heard from Republicans and Democrats is this specific example is [46:43] emblematic of the much broader conversation that we have all been having for years now, [46:47] which is the age of politicians, whether it is in Congress, whether it is in the presidency. [46:52] And that clearly continues to be an issue. [46:54] Well, Herbie, I want to turn to you on that. [46:57] You know, Democrats have struggled with discussing their health issues in the past, age issues. [47:03] Of course, you work for President Biden. [47:05] Do you think political figures are entitled to privacy in situations like this? [47:10] I think the McConnell team and the senator need to be very forthright about what his situation is, [47:14] what his condition is, when he could come back. [47:17] There's no question about it. [47:18] He owes it to his constituents. [47:19] He owes it to the country. [47:21] He owes it to his colleagues. [47:21] And look, there's votes on the NDAA. [47:23] There's appropriations votes. [47:25] We saw last week there could be a Supreme Court vacancy at any moment. [47:28] I think ultimately his colleagues in the senator are going to want to know [47:31] what the situation is, and his team should be forthright. [47:33] But, you know, Democrats before, and, you know, of course, [47:35] there were a lot of accusations with when it came to, you know, President Biden's age issues. [47:41] Is there just a reluctance on both parties to discuss this sort of thing? [47:46] I think when someone is missing an MIA for three weeks, [47:50] it's incumbent upon their team to be very, very clear about what's going on. [47:54] Well, Sarah, can Republicans afford to have McConnell for much longer, [47:59] given, you know, these tight margins on the Hill? [48:02] No. I mean, we need Mitch McConnell to get as healthy as he can and try to come back. [48:06] I do know senators who have spoken to him. [48:08] So the rumor that he's brain dead does not seem to be accurate. [48:12] But we need him back because if not, the special election in Kentucky could be a real problem. [48:18] Massey could step in, and that changes the whole dynamic there. [48:21] You could get a Democrat for a few months until Andy Barr would win it in November. [48:25] Yeah. Shelby, what do you think might happen if McConnell doesn't return to the Senate soon? [48:29] Yeah, I think the margins are very small already, and it could be a disaster for Republicans. [48:33] And so clearly, I think that is part of the calculus to sort of keeping a little bit quieter [48:38] about his condition, because there is the reality that the margins are so small and that he is [48:43] needed here in Washington in order to have some of these votes and in order for Republicans to [48:48] continue being able to do what they want to do. [48:50] And, Herbie, I'll let you wrap this up. [48:52] You know, McConnell's term ends in 2027. [48:54] His replacement is going to be chosen in the midterm, in these midterms. [48:57] Does it ultimately matter for Democrats whether he resigns or, you know, whether he returns [49:04] before the end of his term? [49:05] Does it really matter at this point? [49:06] I think it certainly matters. [49:07] I mean, there are votes in the Senate that are 50-50 that are broken by the vice president's [49:11] tie-breaking vote. [49:12] And there are judicial nominations that are still moving forward that can be really close. [49:15] There are votes that we just talked about. [49:17] And so it certainly matters to the outcome of votes. [49:19] And it's not a good look for the Republican Party. [49:22] And this is a Senate that's up for grabs in November. [49:25] Herbie, Sarah, Shelby, thank you all so much for joining us here on Meet the Press Now. [49:29] That's all the time we have. [49:30] I'm Dave Gutierrez. [49:31] We're back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. [49:34] There is more news ahead right here on NBC News Now. [49:37] We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app [49:59] or watch live on our YouTube channel.