Meet the Press NOW — August 13

[0:11] Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker. The November general election landscape [0:16] is now becoming clear. After a series of high-profile and competitive primaries this [0:21] summer, most of the key general election matchups are now set as Democrats aim to take back control [0:28] of both chambers of Congress from Republicans. And after some bruising primary fights, [0:33] the candidates in these key races are a mix of progressives and moderates, [0:37] newcomers and establishment figures, but they're all pivoting their general election message [0:42] towards unity. I appreciate that you made your voice heard, but I also want you to know this, [0:50] that I will work my tail off to earn your votes. There is so much more that unites us than divides [0:59] us. And so to all of our supporters here tonight, watching on TV, tomorrow we begin to mend fences. [1:08] This movement is not from the left. It is not from the right. It's from the bottom. [1:15] And we are... Whether you are a Republican, an Independent, or a Democrat, [1:20] there is room here for you in our campaign. On the Senate front, we saw two big progressive [1:27] victories in the Midwest, where Abdul Al-Sayed will take on former Congressman Mike Rogers in [1:32] Michigan. And Minnesota Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan will face former NFL sideline reporter [1:38] Michelle Tafoya in November. We'll speak with the Lieutenant Governor in just a moment. [1:43] The main Senate race will also feature a progressive with former state Senator Troy Jackson [1:48] going up against Senator Susan Collins after Graham Plattner was forced out amid a series of [1:53] controversies. But in North Carolina, Iowa, and Ohio, more moderate candidates will be on the ballot [2:00] in races that are key to Democrats' chances of flipping the Senate. [2:04] But despite those distinctions, Republican leaders are aiming to paint all Democrats with [2:09] the same brush. [2:10] These are not social Democrats. These are hardcore, godless communists. [2:16] The communists want to take their ruinous and deadly ideology of misery and squalor [2:21] to every state in America. [2:24] You've got, you know, people openly out there espousing and endorsing socialism. [2:28] These are socialists. These are Marxists in their ideology. [2:30] We're the opposite of the communists. [2:32] And Democrats also have a mix of ideologies in a couple of governor's races where Republicans [2:38] are hoping to flip the seats red. In Kansas, the more progressive candidate won the Democratic [2:43] primary. Cindy Holscher will take on Republican Ty Masterson in November. [2:48] But in Battleground, Wisconsin, the establishment-backed David Crowley beat Democratic Socialist [2:53] Francesca Hong. He will face Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany. [2:57] Joining me now is the Democratic candidate for governor, David Crowley of Wisconsin. [3:03] Thank you so much for joining me. Congratulations on your primary win. [3:07] Well, thank you so much for that. And thank you for having me. [3:10] Well, we appreciate your being here. Let's dive right into it. [3:14] So we have heard you and other Democrats talk about the importance of unity in the wake of your win [3:19] on Tuesday. How do you plan to unify Democrats after so much division, after such a heated primary [3:27] battle? Well, you know, we as Democrats, we are a big tent. And our job is to make sure that we can [3:33] keep as many people under this tent as possible and not try to kick people from up under it. And so [3:38] with this unity tour, we have been hanging out with all the gubernatorial candidates to make sure that [3:44] we are going to reach our ultimate goal, which is making sure that we defeat the MAGA extremists and [3:49] Congressman Tom Tiffany this November. But it's not getting caught up in the divisions and the [3:54] distractions that he wants to focus on, as well as the Republicans here in this state. [3:58] He's speaking directly to the issues that matter most to Wisconsin. It's tackling the affordability [4:03] crisis, lowering costs for all of our working families and making sure that they have access [4:08] to affordable and accessible child care and health care. And I think as long as we continue to do [4:13] that, coalesce people along the political spectrum, we'll be able to not only bring Democrats [4:18] together, but those who are quite frankly exhausted by MAGA to vote Democratic this upcoming fall as [4:24] well. You had such a narrow margin of victory, as you know. And I guess the question is, how do you win [4:31] over those voters who voted against you in the primary, not to mention the fact you've got to [4:36] actually expand turnout amongst independents and more moderate Democrats? You know, one of my favorite [4:43] quotes is by Teddy Roosevelt. And he said, no one cares what you know until they know how much you care. [4:48] And I think one thing that we have lost in politics across this country and definitely here in Wisconsin is [4:53] building relationships. We need authentic relationships for 40, 50 years. Republicans have been sowing the [5:00] divide between rural, urban and suburban communities. And now that we're all sharing the same issues, not being able to [5:08] afford our property taxes or our homes, seeing clinics and hospitals closing in our own backyards and our public [5:15] schools, not getting enough resources. This is now the opportunity for us to come together. And so we may live in [5:22] different communities, but we are still one Wisconsin. As long as we focus on the goals and how we can move [5:28] forward, there's no doubt in my mind that we'll win this election and coalesce people across the political [5:33] spectrum. [5:33] Your opponent in the primary, Francesca Hong, has said she will support you and campaign and work with [5:40] you. Do you welcome that? Do you want her to be out on the campaign trail with you? [5:45] Oh, absolutely. I think it's extremely important to understand that, you know, me and Francesca, [5:51] we may not agree on everything, but we do agree on that ultimate goal in defeating MAGA extremists and [5:57] election denier from occupying our governor's seats. And so we're going to do what we can to make sure [6:02] that Democrats all across this state and those who don't feel like they have a political home [6:08] understand what's at stake. And as long as we're able to do that, unify our party, unify the values [6:14] that we believe in in Wisconsin, there's no doubt in my mind that we'll win this election, but continue [6:19] to focus on the future of this party. [6:22] You've just said you don't agree on everything as it relates to Francesca Hong. She obviously was [6:27] the more progressive candidate. Can you name one issue where you disagree most with her? One of [6:35] the biggest issues? Well, one of the biggest issues that we did have a disagreement on was related to [6:42] the data center. She wants to see a moratorium here in the state of Wisconsin. Well, I don't believe a [6:47] moratorium would actually work because you can't place a moratorium on buildings that are currently [6:52] here. This is about how do we protect ourselves from the current infrastructure as it relates to our [6:57] water, our air and our land. And so we can do all those things while also not preempting communities [7:06] that have done their due diligence to allow for different types of economic development investments. [7:11] You're calling for guardrails on data centers. What do you say to supporters of Francesca Hong who [7:17] want that moratorium? They feel like guardrails don't go far enough. [7:23] Well, the thing is that the moratorium doesn't focus on what we currently have here. It's only focusing on [7:28] the possibility of data centers that will come in the future. And so for me, it's about how do we [7:34] protect our land, our water, our most precious resources today. We shouldn't allow data centers [7:41] to extract our resources. We should be looking at how do we extract as much as possible from these [7:46] data centers. And so with these guardrails being in place by working with the state legislature and [7:52] making sure that we protect our communities, that helps with those future data centers at the exact [7:57] same time. And so it's about building those relationships, understanding the policy and moving [8:02] forward after that. Well, President Trump has a different view. I want to play something he said [8:07] recently and get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. I think any community that turns down AI is [8:13] making a big mistake because your taxes are going to go way down. If you own a house, it's going to be more [8:18] valuable. It's a it's a tremendous thing. And I see it. It's almost like there's a there's a campaign [8:24] against, you know, data centers. But data centers, if you look at the stats, everything's good around [8:31] them. How do you respond to President Trump? The argument being too many guardrails could actually [8:37] disincentivize companies from coming to Wisconsin? Well, I would actually encourage President Trump to [8:44] to come and talk to many of the community members who live next door to a data center or have a [8:48] community here. You know, when it comes down to artificial intelligence, yes, it can provide some [8:54] level of good. But we also have to make sure that that is not replacing productivity, right? Enhancing [8:59] and creating more efficiency. I think all of us can agree on that. But when it starts to take away [9:05] from the jobs of today and the jobs of tomorrow that young people are going to school and relying on [9:10] to to pay their bills, we have to there is some cause to pause there. And so we should be [9:17] partners as we move forward. And so as it relates to data centers, artificial intelligence or any [9:22] level of economic development, we have to protect our people. We have to protect wages and make sure [9:27] that we're not leaving families behind. All right. So that is what we're hearing from President [9:32] Trump on that big debate. I want to play for you something that your opponent, Tom Tiffany, [9:37] is saying he's out with a new ad taking aim at you. I want to play a little bit, get your reaction [9:43] on the other side. Take a look. Failed executive David Crowley spent recklessly, botched health [9:48] insurance for thousands, raised property and taxes. Even David Crowley says there's no real [9:53] difference between him and socialists. Jeez, that's crazy. How do you respond? Well, there we go with the [10:04] distractions and divisions. We're not even talking about policies that's actually going to keep more [10:09] money in in families pockets, how we're going to reduce utility costs. And so, you know, one thing that [10:14] we know about Tom Tiffany, he is a MAGA extremist who has voted 100 percent of the time with Donald [10:19] Trump. And, you know, anybody who votes 100 percent of the time and doesn't stand up to someone and [10:25] represents their constituents, it doesn't qualify them to be run for governor. I am the only executive [10:32] in this race. We have done incredible work lowering our unsheltered homeless population, having the lowest [10:38] lowest count per capita than any community in the entire country. We've reduced overdose deaths by 40 [10:45] percent. And we've had to pick every damn can that Republicans have kicked down the road, especially [10:51] our former county executive, Scott Walker, who ran up a credit card bill, $400 million on property taxes [10:57] payers here. And so I'm focused on moving forward while he's trying to attach me to candidates that are [11:05] not even in this race. Well, we talk about issues. The biggest issue for voters is the economy. Let me [11:12] ask you about that. Earlier this year, you dismissed the idea of a gas tax holiday. Gas is up 43 percent [11:19] in Wisconsin, Mr. Crowley, since the start of the war. Why rule out temporary relief at the pump? [11:27] Because we need permanent relief. We have actually proposed repealing the minimum markup law on gas, [11:33] which is a law that's been on the books since 1939 here in the state of Wisconsin. [11:37] Why not do both? Why not do both? Why not get rid of the gas tax and then try to work toward long-term [11:44] relief, too? Because we need to provide long-term relief. I mean, what we have seen related to one [11:51] day of gas taxes is not going to provide a sufficient amount of funds for individuals when we can provide [11:58] that one time with that long-term relief. We have a nine percent markup right here in the state of [12:03] Wisconsin, which means that we are paying 40 cents per gallon that goes straight to profits. And that's [12:11] profits that go straight to big oil. It doesn't go to fix the road. It doesn't go to a local [12:15] municipality. It is literally going to the owners of gas stations. And so to provide that relief, [12:22] let's actually look at all the laws that we have on the books and do something different. We can't [12:28] continue to give these gimmicks moving forward. And that's why it's important not just to focus on the [12:32] governor's race, but how we are electing Democrats in the state Senate and the state assembly to push [12:37] policies is going to allow all the boats to rise when that tide rises. All right, David Crowley, thank [12:43] you so very much for your time. Really appreciate it. No, thank you so much. We want to turn now to [12:51] Tuesday's other big winner in Minnesota's Democratic Senate primary, where it was not a close race. [12:57] Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan beat Congresswoman Angie Craig by nearly 20 points. And joining me now [13:03] is the Democratic nominee for Senate, Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan of Minnesota. Thank you [13:08] so very much for joining me. Really appreciate it. And congratulations on your primary win. [13:12] Thank you so much. [13:15] You're welcome. Let's delve into the topics. Your victory speech, you said you will work to earn [13:22] the vote of Congresswoman Craig's supporters. And I'm curious, what specific issues do you believe [13:27] can appeal to those more moderate Democratic voters who you need to win over in the general? [13:31] Well, I think what's clear, and I am so grateful to Congresswoman Craig, you know, we had two highly [13:40] qualified women who are running for this U.S. Senate seat. She has now endorsed my campaign. And [13:47] my hope is to continue to travel across the state meeting voters wherever they're at and earning their [13:53] trust and support. Congresswoman Craig and I are absolutely 100 percent aligned that we have to [13:59] stop Michelle Tafoya from winning this seat. We know that we cannot afford to allow Donald Trump to [14:07] have one more yes, sir, senator serving, you know, to do his bidding. And I think what, you know, we can [14:15] find common ground on for folks across the state is, you know, making sure that people can afford the [14:20] lives they want to live. Folks feel squeezed. They are struggling. And those are the issues, [14:26] frankly, that I expect, you know, they want us to tackle because that's what I've heard from folks [14:31] as we travel across the state. You know, it's not a secret that Congresswoman Craig and I don't see [14:36] eye to eye on everything. But we are completely aligned in making sure that this seat remains blue. [14:43] Michelle Tafoya is kept on the sidelines where she belongs and that we take back the House and to [14:49] have a Democratic Senate majority as well. I want to get a sense of how you see this race unfolding [14:55] in the primary. You said Congresswoman Craig was beholden to corporate donors. Now you are directing [15:00] that line of attack at your Republican opponent. NRSC chair Tim Scott said earlier this week that he [15:06] thinks Michelle Tafoya can put Minnesota in play if Republicans devote resources to [15:12] make this race competitive. Will you also accept outside help in the form of campaign cash? [15:20] I have taken that commitment to not take a dime of corporate PAC money. This has been the campaign [15:26] of the many versus the money. And I think that's a big reason why we won the primary and why we'll [15:33] win again in November. Listen, Minnesotans of all political stripes are sick and tired of corporate [15:40] PAC special interest groups putting their thumb on the scale in our elections. [15:44] And we had a resounding victory on Tuesday night where folks said that they want to make sure that [15:52] we can end Citizens United. I think the best way to end Citizens United is to demonstrate that you can [15:57] run and win strong grassroots people-powered campaigns. Does that mean I have to hustle a little [16:03] bit more? Yes. But it also means that I can sleep at night because I am beholden only to Minnesotans. [16:10] And I think corporations have an incredible amount of representation in Washington. It's regular folks [16:18] who need a voice in the Senate. And that's what I plan to do. I guess I'd also say that for Michelle [16:25] Tafoya, she's been talking a lot about how people should simply skip their trip to Starbucks in the face of [16:37] high fuel prices from this illegal war in Iran. I think that's pretty disconnected from what regular [16:44] Minnesotans are facing every single day. And, you know, our opportunity is to just continue to make [16:50] sure that people know there's one person who's fighting for Minnesotans and there's one person [16:54] who's going to, you know, fight for Donald Trump and be a loyal soldier to him. And that's Michelle Tafoya. [16:59] Well, speaking of Michelle Tafoya, I want to play a little bit of what she told Minnesota Public Radio [17:04] yesterday. Get your reaction on the other side. Take a look. [17:07] When I believe something is right, I will go with it. When I believe something's wrong, I have the spine [17:14] to stand up to it. And I'm going to do that. I'm an independent thinker and we're going to welcome [17:19] everyone into this camp. [17:21] She's effectively making the case there that she will stand up to President Trump when she believes [17:26] it is necessary. Do you believe that message could resonate with independent voters and make your path [17:32] more challenging? [17:35] I mean, I think there, you know, are two kinds of Republicans. There are mega Republicans who are proud [17:42] Trump supporters and there are mega Republicans who are afraid of Donald Trump. And it is clear that [17:50] Donald Trump will be the one who is essentially telling Michelle Tafoya what to do. We already know, [17:58] again, that she has, you know, taken the stance that this illegal boar in Iran is A-OK with her as we [18:05] watch the cost of fuel go up for folks, fertilizer prices. We were just out at Farm Fest where, you know, [18:12] farmers in Minnesota were telling me that they are absolutely being squeezed. The, you know, just chaos [18:17] and unpredictability that's happening under this president is ridiculous. You know, the weather is [18:24] hard to, hard to control and you shouldn't have to also deal with the chaos coming out of the Trump [18:30] administration and Republicans like Michelle Tafoya who are going to continue to give him, you know, [18:35] whatever he wants. I guess they'd also say, you know, this, this past year has been incredibly [18:40] difficult for our state as we, you know, endured Operation Metro Surge. This is another place where, [18:48] you know, Michelle Tafoya is out of step with Republic or out of step with, you know, Minnesotans [18:53] and lockstep with, with Donald Trump. She said, you know, ICE treated children really, really well. [19:01] Well, I think, you know, Liam Conejo-Ramos would beg to differ. Our little, our little guy in the blue [19:07] bunny hat and the, the children who've had, you know, their, their parents, uh, disappeared and, [19:13] and detained. Uh, you know, we don't need, uh, another senator who is going to empower this, [19:19] like, lawless entity that's been allowed to kill two Minnesotans with impunity and wreak absolute [19:24] chaos, uh, and, and violence in communities all across the United States. It has to stop. [19:30] I mean, as a senator, it's going to stand up to Trump. You do take me to my next question, which [19:35] is about that. You have said that you want to rip ICE apart. Is that effectively calling to abolish [19:44] ICE? Do you want to abolish ICE? I think what we need is an immigration system, but we need an [19:51] immigration system that, you know, is grounded in public safety, uh, and that, uh, is grounded in [19:59] dignity and making sure that we have a pathway to citizenship. We can absolutely have secure [20:05] borders, but you know, what we have witnessed literally in the streets here of, of Minnesota [20:11] is that Donald Trump's ICE, uh, has, you know, detained people simply if they are, are people of [20:18] color. Uh, you know, I'm a member of the, the native American community and they were detaining [20:23] native people who are literally native to this country simply because of the color of their skin. [20:29] This is, uh, out of control. And I think, you know, when we see what over $240 billion being given to [20:37] this agency that is essentially just functioning as a, you know, private police force for, for [20:43] Donald Trump, um, terrorizing our communities, we can absolutely do better. We need to hold these [20:50] folks accountable for what they've done here. So Lieutenant Governor Flanagan, yes or no, abolish [20:55] ICE. Yes or no, on abolishing ICE. I'm not clear on where you stand there. I believe we need an [21:03] immigration system. ICE has been around. So replace ICE, you're saying replace ICE with a new system. [21:09] Are you saying that ICE should be replaced with a new system? I think this immigration system is, [21:16] is broken and we need to make sure that we are restoring and repairing and healing what they have [21:24] broken. Uh, and you know, I, I am so clear that this week, as we're having a conversation about [21:31] whether or not I should be spending millions of dollars on, uh, electric gloves that are going to [21:39] shock, uh, individuals and detainees, what kind of conversation are we having? It is, uh, an agency [21:47] that is grounded in terror and violence and intimidation. That is, you know, what they are [21:52] doing in communities across the country. The American people deserve better. And we need an [21:57] immigration system, uh, that takes public safety into account, grounded in dignity, a pathway to [22:03] citizenship that, you know, is, is, uh, is not what Donald Trump, uh, is, is offering, uh, right now. [22:10] And I want to hold this administration accountable for you that the economic impact, uh, on our [22:17] communities, for the trauma that they have caused our children, uh, and for the lives that have been [22:23] lost, not just here in Minnesota, uh, but nine other individuals who have been killed, uh, by this [22:29] agency. It's outrageous. And we need a new immigration system grounded in the things that I just outlined. [22:35] Very quickly. I want to ask you about what you told Politico in relation to Senate Minority [22:40] Leader Chuck Schumer. You said you think there should be a new voice for the role of Democratic [22:45] leader. Who is that voice? And would you welcome Chuck Schumer on the campaign trail? [22:51] I mean, Chuck Schumer and I have already had a conversation. I am grateful, uh, for, uh, the [22:57] leadership that, that he has provided and, uh, what I have heard clearly from people all across, [23:02] uh, Minnesota. Absolutely. Uh, but what I have heard from people all across Minnesota is they are ready [23:08] for, uh, bold fighters. They are ready, uh, you know, to ensure that we have, uh, voices, uh, that [23:15] are, are grounded, uh, in, in, uh, in making sure that people can afford the lives, uh, they want to [23:20] live. And I think it is time, uh, for, uh, for new leadership. I am grateful to have the support of, [23:27] uh, many members of the, the U.S. Senate and folks who came out, uh, early in support of our campaign [23:33] and what it is that we're building. Uh, I look forward to winning this race, getting there and, [23:37] uh, helping, uh, to elect, uh, leadership, uh, that's ready for big, bold change. [23:42] All right. Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, we're going to watch your race [23:45] very carefully. Really appreciate your time. Thanks so much. [23:51] Coming up, the White House says they had no obligation to tell people they were flying on [23:56] the decoy plane after an Iranian assassination threat prompted President Trump to secretly switch [24:01] planes. Plus mounting concerns of low morale and complaints about poor living conditions as [24:08] troops serving in the Mideast for months see no end in sight to their deployments. We'll delve into [24:13] that. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now. Welcome back. We're learning even more now [24:25] about what was going on behind the scenes when the White House had President Trump secretly change [24:29] planes when leaving the NATO meeting in Turkey last month. According to the Washington Post, [24:34] U.S. intel officials were skeptical about an Iranian assassination threat against the president [24:39] that the Israeli government relayed to the CIA. An official telling the Washington Post the Israeli [24:44] report was viewed as, quote, low confidence. As we've been reporting, a U.S. official tells NBC News [24:50] the Iranian threat was extremely serious and included the possibility of the use of shoulder-to-air [24:56] missiles. Meanwhile, the White House is dismissing any notion that it had a so-called duty [25:01] to warn staffers and members of the press who flew on that decoy plane. Joining me now is NBC News [25:07] White House correspondent Monica Alba. Monica, thanks so much for being here with the very latest. So [25:11] what more is the White House saying about these new details that we're continuing to learn [25:15] about this secret trip? Yeah, we've been asking about this so-called duty to warn statute and whether [25:22] there was any obligation. And according to a senior administration official, the way that this [25:27] administration and the White House view it, the threat was specific to the president. And so they [25:32] felt and they make the argument that in that moment, that was the only thing that really applied, [25:37] that the only person they really had an obligation to warn there was the commander-in-chief. And that [25:42] is why they took such extreme security measures and moved him from the legacy Air Force One to the [25:47] third military aircraft. And so they're making the argument here really that that wouldn't apply to [25:52] anybody else on the plane, that it wouldn't apply to the top cabinet secretaries, the senior White [25:57] House officials who remained aboard, or the journalists who, of course, were unaware that [26:01] the president wasn't actually aboard the aircraft, that they in real time were reporting he was because [26:06] they were under that impression since he had boarded the plane and deplaned when they landed in the UK [26:12] as well. So they are sort of trying to dismiss that. But at the same time, we really do still have [26:17] questions, Kristen, about the exact nature of the threat that led them to make such a brazen decision. [26:24] Well, and of course, no surprise, Monica, that the United States and its allies share intelligence. [26:28] Broadly speaking, talk about the intel sharing relationship between the U.S. and Israel and how that fits [26:34] into this. And it's been fascinating throughout the course of the war against Iran, because there have been [26:41] several instances in which NBC News has reported that Israel has shared certain intelligence that may be [26:47] factored into the president's decision making, but didn't necessarily, according to the White House, [26:52] drive him to make a decision, but it has certainly been a factor again. So in this case, [26:57] there is reporting out there that Israel was able to provide some of this intelligence. And even [27:02] the ambassador, Mike Huckabee, to Israel said that in a public interview, basically, that he felt that [27:08] they were able to pass that along, that Israel was able to pass that along to the U.S. as something that [27:14] could be credible. As you point out, that Washington Post reporting says it was with low confidence, [27:19] but clearly this was a situation where the Secret Service takes a look at that. And even if it is low [27:23] confidence, they felt they could not take any chances. But right now, the relationship between [27:29] the U.S. and Israel is quite strained. The relationship between the president and Prime Minister [27:33] Netanyahu is definitely at a rocky point, given some of their public comments and certainly [27:39] disagreements on a number of issues. So whether that was a factor a month ago when all of this [27:44] was unfolding is still an open question and something that we're following here. [27:48] But I think it is worth pointing out that overall, when it comes to these kinds of security measures, [27:54] even if there is a tiny chance that there could be a threat to the president, that is something, [27:59] according to this White House, they take so seriously that even the aides who were traveling with him [28:03] and say they knew the risks. And in the case of one person, they told us if he were to die and they [28:09] were to die, that they would be OK with that because they understood the seriousness and the risks [28:14] associated with the job and traveling with the president overseas. Kristen. [28:19] Well, that's just extraordinary, Monica. And of course, President Trump did respond to this this week. [28:25] How concerned did he seem to be about the threat against him? [28:28] And that's the thing that doesn't fit in completely to this picture in terms of U.S. officials saying [28:33] that the threat was extremely serious because the president has actually been kind of downplaying [28:38] it and really shrugging it off, saying it was kind of whatever, in his words, and that he wasn't too [28:43] worried about the threat. But if you remember, Kristen, as we were reporting at the time, he was, [28:48] at least while he was in Turkey, saying he was worried about potentially being the target of an [28:53] assassination plot by Iran, even though he wasn't offering any specifics, just in the hours before [28:59] he eventually did that very clandestine move and was basically smuggled out through that catering [29:04] truck, which does tell you he obviously was worried about it at the time. [29:08] Yeah, just remarkable. Monica Alba, thank you so much for all of that new reporting. We really [29:13] appreciate it. Meanwhile, the U.S. war with Iran continues to drag on, and it's taking an enormous [29:18] and alarming toll on U.S. service members deployed to the region, so much so that military families [29:23] and members of Congress are sounding the alarm about a mental health crisis. The Military Times [29:29] reporting that multiple sailors on board the USS Abraham Lincoln have tried to jump overboard as [29:35] that aircraft carrier nears its nine-month mark at sea. According to U.S. officials, there are growing [29:41] complaints from service members and their families about deteriorating living conditions aboard that ship. [29:46] Now, lawmakers are demanding answers. Senator Richard Blumenthal sent Defense Secretary Pete [29:51] Heggseth a letter asking what steps the Pentagon is taking to address the report of poor conditions [29:57] on the Lincoln, while Senator Gallego requested an oversight visit to the aircraft carrier by a [30:02] bipartisan Senate delegation. A U.S. official telling NBC News the USS George Washington will deploy to [30:08] the Mideast to replace the Lincoln in the coming weeks. Joining me now is national security reporter [30:13] Gordon Lubold. Thank you so much for being here, Gordon. Really appreciate it. So put this into [30:19] context. Just how strained is the situation right now aboard that ship? [30:25] I mean, Kristen, so, you know, remember this was a conflict that the president assumed would last five [30:30] to six weeks, and we're now in the six-month mark. And what we're starting to see now is the Navy in [30:37] particular and other services being overstretched. In this case, you know, most carrier deployments, [30:43] and a carrier deploys with attendant ships, so it's four or five ships, you know, usually deploy for six [30:50] to seven months. Occasionally, they do go over. Often, they go over a little bit here and there. [30:56] In this case, this is now they're in their ninth month with the Lincoln. Remember, the carrier that it [31:03] replaced was the Ford, and it was out for 11 months, almost twice the amount of time. [31:08] And so what we're seeing is wear and tear on the ship, wear and tear on the humans, the sailors, [31:13] and the Marines who are on the ship. The reason why it is significant is because when a ship can't get [31:19] into port for a port visit, libo, as they sometimes call it, and replenish the ship, then, you know, [31:26] things as basic as fresh fruit and vegetables, other amenities, you know, sailors have no access to, [31:31] and after a while, it takes its toll. And why can't they go to port? [31:36] Right. So I think part of the problem right now is we are in a kind of a active war. It's kind of [31:41] sometimes a cold war, sometimes it's a hot war, and they're shooting, but force protection of those [31:47] ships, I mean, carriers is a huge carrier. And so, like, to take it into a port anywhere in the region, [31:53] anywhere nearby, is extremely perilous. And what is the Pentagon saying about this situation, [31:59] Gordon? Right. So the Secretary of Defense recently was asked, and he said the reporting of it was [32:05] completely overstated. But the Pentagon issue statement says here, the Department of War's [32:12] focus on mission readiness has been among the top priorities for Secretary Hegseth, and that obviously [32:17] includes the well-being of our troops. Readiness is non-negotiable. Our forces are posture to win, [32:22] and the Department continues to ensure our people have what they need to succeed. You know, in fairness, [32:28] you know, Secretary Hegseth himself a combat veteran, Army, not on ship, but I think does [32:34] understand these issues. He's built his brand around readiness, lethality, bringing all this [32:40] stuff back into the military. I think the problem that we're sometimes starting to see, though, is [32:45] are people willing to say no to the president, to, you know, the demands for this war, which is now [32:51] stretched to a lot. [32:52] As we said, the USS George Washington is set to replace the USS Lincoln. What's the timeline on [32:59] that, Gordon? How long is it going to take? Could they be out at sea for a length of time more? [33:05] That's one of the things about being on these ships and when there's so much uncertainty about [33:09] when you'll be relieved. We are reporting that the GW is going to leave the Lincoln, but they are in [33:18] Asia. That will take at least a couple weeks to come through into the region, and then they sometimes [33:24] do an overlap, and so it could take several weeks before the sailors of the Lincoln get home. [33:29] Well, it's remarkable reporting. Gordon, thank you so much for being here and bringing it to us. We [33:34] really appreciate it. And an important note, if you or someone you know is struggling, you are not [33:40] alone. Help is just a moment away. Call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org to speak to a trained [33:48] counselor. We will be right back with more of the press now. Welcome back. Health officials in at [33:58] least three states say they will not adopt new federal childhood vaccine guidelines laid out by [34:03] the White House. President Trump signed an executive order on Monday overhauling the recommended [34:08] childhood vaccine schedule. The changes included splitting up the combined measles, mumps, and [34:14] rubella vaccine, known as the MMR vaccine, into separate shots. Today, Illinois became the latest state [34:20] vowing to ignore that order. Governor J.B. Pritzker calling it a, quote, thoughtless piece of paper [34:25] that does not reverse decades of research and scientific evidence about protecting kids. [34:30] It comes as the CDC reports more than 2,400 measles cases have already been reported nationwide [34:37] this year. That is the highest number in more than 30 years. According to the CDC, [34:42] more than 90 percent of those measles cases are in people who are not vaccinated. Joining me now is Dr. [34:48] Dmitry Daskalakis. He is an infectious disease physician and former director of the CDC's [34:53] National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. Thank you so much for joining us. Let's [34:59] dive right in. Does Monday's executive order have teeth or is this more about the messaging? How do you [35:05] see it? Thanks for having me, Kristen. I think at the end of the day, any executive order seemingly [35:11] has teeth, but it needs to be implementable. And frankly, most of what the executive order details [35:18] is not implementable. And, you know, there is no such thing as a separate measles, mumps and [35:25] rubella vaccine. It only comes as the combined MMR vaccine in the United States. So an order that's [35:32] written that way really implies that the folks who are writing it really don't know very much about [35:36] public health or vaccines. So I would say in general, you know, until this is implemented, [35:42] it is just a piece of paper that is best ignored by both states and medical providers. [35:48] So what you're saying is very significant. I mean, you're saying it's unlikely it's impractical for [35:53] this to actually happen. I will go beyond impractical and say it is impossible without [35:59] years of additional research. So, you know, there is no separate measles, mumps, rubella vaccine [36:05] in the United States. In fact, many countries that had some of the vaccines split up have now started [36:11] recommending the combined vaccine again. So it is impossible to implement without many years of [36:18] study. Big picture. I wonder what you think the impact of this announcement might be. For example, [36:25] do you think there could be a drastic decline in vaccinations writ large as a result of the [36:31] announcement on Monday? Are people going to be nervous about getting vaccinated? I mean, [36:36] at the end of the day, the secretary of health is a chaos agent who spreads misinformation and [36:41] disinformation. And so in effect, what this does is create more confusion. And that may manifest [36:47] itself as people not taking any action. You know, as a clinician who sees patients, I can tell you that [36:53] when a patient is confused, they generally tend toward an action. And so I think, you know, this back [36:59] and forth and back and forth, trying to change the vaccine schedule, trying to make it look like peer [37:04] countries, countries that in fact, we are not peers with because we don't have universal health care, [37:09] ends up just confusing people, confusing parents, and really re-traumatizing pediatricians who have [37:16] had to deal with this attack on vaccines over the last year, year plus. And so if you are confused, [37:22] your advice to parents is talk to your doctor? Yeah. I mean, like, I'll take it one step level. [37:29] My first piece of advice is ignore this executive order. And my second piece of advice is talk to your [37:33] pediatrician and your medical provider. Okay. Let's talk about the measles cases that we're seeing [37:40] nationwide. More than 2,400 cases have been reported so far this year in the United States. That already [37:47] surpasses last year's total. And frankly, it's the most cases in this country in more than 30 years. [37:54] Are you concerned these cases are going to continue to spike? And what's the overall impact of that? [38:01] I'm very concerned that the cases will continue to spike. And it's no longer about there's an [38:07] outbreak here, there's an outbreak there. I think at the end of the day, the damage that's been done [38:13] and made way worse by this current health leadership in the United States means that people will be [38:19] confused about what to do with vaccines. They're going to hear the misinformation. I mean, the fact [38:24] that the president himself was talking about autism and vaccines when, in fact, there is no evidence [38:30] that vaccines are related to autism will just create confusion and fear. And that manifests itself [38:36] as unvaccinated children. And that means that there are more children susceptible to measles. [38:41] And to be clear, it's not just a rash and a fever. So folks who get the measles actually end up having [38:47] pretty significant impact on their immune system that can last for months after the infection, [38:52] making them susceptible to other bacterial and viral infections. And some of them can go on to have [38:57] pretty severe complications. So, you know, this is this is not serving the health of American people, [39:04] especially children. [39:06] Well, you've resigned from the CDC a year ago at the time you argued the agency, the Department of [39:13] Health and Human Services could no longer be trusted as a credible source of public health [39:18] information. How would you assess these agencies now a year after your departure? [39:23] I think it's gotten worse, Kristen. I don't think that it's gotten better. I think that what we're [39:29] seeing is health officials doing political strategy rather than public health. And, you know, [39:36] the casualty in that is our health. It's the health of our kids. And so, you know, confused messages [39:41] mean failure in public health. And so this is an F. It's not a B minus, not a C plus. This is an F [39:48] for public health because these these agencies are really being controlled by someone whose mission [39:54] is to destabilize the vaccine effort in the country. And that is inappropriate and, you know, [40:00] really should be something that should have continuous oversight in Congress. I mean, [40:06] this is going to mean sick kids, period. [40:08] All right, Dr. Daskaloskis, thank you so much for joining us, for bringing us your expertise. We [40:14] appreciate it. [40:15] Thank you for having me, Kristen. [40:17] Coming up after the break, it's the economy and the midterms. The panel digs into what voters say [40:22] is the most important issue to them this fall. Stay with us on Meet the Press Now. [40:35] Welcome back. Joining me now is today's panel to Lou Alernipa, staff writer at The Atlantic, [40:41] Megan Hayes, former special assistant to President Biden, [40:44] and Jesse Arm, vice president of external affairs at the Manhattan Institute. [40:49] Thanks to all of you for being here. Really appreciate it. [40:52] To Lou, I have to start with you. You heard my conversations with David Crowley and [40:56] Peggy Flanagan. What were your key takeaways as Democrats kind of battle for the heart and soul [41:02] of their party in this primary season? [41:04] There's a big effort to try to put out a message about the Democrats being a big tent party and try [41:10] to coalesce around the things that bring the party together and not focus as much on some of the [41:14] things that were very divisive during this primary, the things that separated the moderates from the [41:18] left and the idea that this insurgent leftist wing of the party was trying to take over. [41:24] The moderates were able to beat some of that back, but they don't also want to beat away or push away [41:29] the voters, in many cases, large numbers of voters that supported those progressive candidates. [41:33] And so they're trying to figure out how to message in a way that allows them to seem like they're [41:39] listening to the folks on the left without necessarily adopting some of those policies. [41:43] I thought it was really interesting that Peggy Flanagan would not say, I want to abolish ICE. [41:47] She said everything short of that, but she would not use that word, those words, because she did not [41:52] want that to be put in an ad against her. But she does want to coalesce around some of the voters [41:58] and the activists and the people in Minnesota who showed up in mass earlier this year. And a lot [42:04] of energy is behind that. And she does not want to lose that energy by making it seem like she's [42:09] backing away from the abolish ICE type of message that a lot of those voters support. [42:14] You know, Megan Hayes, Toulouse's point really underscores just how delicate some of these topics [42:20] are, how every single word matters. And quite frankly, the challenge ahead of these progressive [42:27] candidates as they enter the general election. How did you read exactly what Toulouse is talking [42:33] about, kind of the careful discussion on ICE and what we're seeing in these general elections, [42:38] the fact that this is going to be the biggest test yet for progressives in a place like Minnesota [42:43] and Michigan? Yeah, I think it's a little bit different here than in Michigan. In Minnesota, [42:47] it's different than in Michigan. I think that you're going to see her moderate. You're going to [42:50] see Peggy Flanagan moderate a little. But I also think she was a candidate that showed up. She did a lot [42:54] of events all over the state. People who did not necessarily agree with her, you know, they voted [42:58] for her because she was showing up in these districts. She won all the rural districts [43:02] overwhelmingly. So I just think that she probably has a little bit different of a uphill battle here [43:06] than al-Sayed does in moderating. And I think that she, you know, she did not say that she wanted [43:11] to abolish ICE and she really couldn't answer. And I know that she's had some struggles to get there [43:15] and it's only been a couple of days. And I think she'll get there when it comes down to it. But I do think [43:19] that her rip apart ICE is saying it needs to be reformed. And I think most moderates would also agree with you. [43:23] We also have to remember she's in Minnesota where they were the very, very front lines of [43:28] the ICE, all the ICE conflicts this year. So the ICE conversations are going to play differently in [43:33] Minnesota than they're going to play in Michigan or California or anywhere else. And so I think we [43:37] have to remember that when she talks about ICE. [43:38] Jessie, Michelle Tafoya, name recognition. And you heard in that interview I played with her [43:45] where she said, I can stand up to anyone when I believe it's the right thing to do. Clearly [43:50] trying to reach for those moderate Democrats, those independent voters who she's going to need [43:56] if she wins the general election. What do you make of that strategy? [44:00] Yeah. I mean, I'm going to say much the same thing as Tallulah and Megan just now, but I'm on [44:05] the right. So I'm just going to be a little bit more direct and blunt about it. The normies got their [44:09] guy in Wisconsin. They pulled everything together. They brought the establishment out. They went hard [44:14] and they got Crowley across the finish line and they're in much stronger position in Wisconsin [44:19] as a result. Minnesota, yes, the ICE stuff from earlier this year, but it's also just a much [44:24] bluer state than Wisconsin and Michigan. So Tafoya is compelling on a lot of different levels, but [44:30] you know, Flanagan, despite being a lunatic, in my opinion, is probably going to be in pretty strong [44:36] position to win that seat just because, you know, we often, you know, a generation ago or a couple [44:41] decades ago, a lot of people were asking what's wrong with Kansas. I think a lot of people are [44:44] asking what's wrong with Minnesota today. Well, it's a really interesting point because Tafoya has [44:50] that name recognition. And when you think about the general election, that could be the one thing, [44:56] Megan, that makes it tougher for Flanagan. I mean, I agree that Michigan's, I'm sorry, [45:02] Minnesota's a much bluerer state. So I don't actually think that Flanagan's going to have much [45:06] of a hard time getting to winning this seat. I think she has the establishment backing as well as [45:10] the progressive backing here. I also think she is a much more palatable candidate. She's a normal mom. [45:15] And she shows up for people. And I think that people recognize that. Relative to Al-Sayed, [45:19] for sure. Well, let's talk about Al-Sayed. Toulouse set us up here because he is moderating [45:25] ever so slightly, not necessarily in his ideology, but in the broader messaging, [45:31] clearly aware that he's got to have that unity message. He's got to reach across the aisle. [45:35] How competitive do you think Michigan is right now? Mike Rogers running ads basically saying, [45:40] if you felt uncomfortable on Wednesday when you woke up last Wednesday, I'm your guy. [45:45] Yeah. If this race is about Al-Sayed, he's going to have a hard time winning. He wants to make the [45:51] race about affordability, about Donald Trump, who is unpopular in Michigan, and about Mike Rogers by [45:56] tying Mike Rogers to Donald Trump, to the issues of affordability, to his long record as someone who's [46:02] part of the establishment. And the fact that he's an outsider for Al-Sayed, he's trying to use that to [46:08] get more voters on his side, get more people to say, I might not like everything that he says, [46:13] but he's not a creature of Washington. He's someone that's different. He's someone that's [46:16] speaking to the issues that I care about. That's part of the reason he was able to win the primary, [46:20] but now he has to win over some of those Haley Stevens voters who might be open to an outsider, [46:25] but don't want somebody who's going to blow up the system. [46:27] Jesse, you know, Republicans wanted Al-Sayed to win, and yet there is a lot of energy in the [46:32] progressive left. And again, he's clearly fighting for more of the voters in the middle now. Do you [46:39] think this is a competitive race? And I ask that against the backdrop of having had conversations [46:44] with a number of Republicans who say they're increasingly nervous about a state like Michigan. [46:48] Yeah. Well, you're right that a lot of Republicans wanted Al-Sayed. I was not one of them. I was [46:53] shrieking for Haley. You know, I thought she was cool there for a little while doing my, [46:57] you know, hanging out with Neera Tanden on Twitter. And, you know, we were all liking the same [47:02] things and retweeting each other. But no, here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll say. All right. [47:06] It is definitely a much more competitive race against Al-Sayed. Absolutely. [47:10] Because you think he has a lot of energy. [47:11] Well, Toulou was just making the point earlier, if this race is about Abdul Al-Sayed, [47:15] then that's bad for Al-Sayed. But unfortunately, Abdul Al-Sayed is obsessed with talking about Al-Sayed. [47:21] He's obsessed with that one thing himself, and then one other thing, Palestine. Okay. So, [47:26] and he's not moderating an inch on issues as it pertains to the Middle East. And that Arab vote in [47:30] Michigan voted for him something like 95 percent. There's a lot of Jewish voters who are pretty [47:34] upset with Al-Sayed and freaked out by the things he said in the wake of the Temple Israel near [47:39] massacre. But I'll tell you this, 95 percent of Jews in Michigan are not going to be voting for [47:43] Mike Rogers in November. How do you see that race playing out? I think that Al-Sayed has a uphill [47:48] battle. He's going to have to build a coalition. He needs to get the working class vote, and he needs [47:52] to get black voters back on his side. And that's the base of the Democratic Party. And those were the [47:56] people that were behind Haley Stevens. And the race was a lot closer than people. I think she only [48:00] lost by, what, 8,000 or something votes. You know, so it's, he has an uphill battle. He is going to [48:04] have to use Haley Stevens significantly to get these people back on his side. Also, I think this [48:09] is a state that's going to matter who's at the top of the ticket for both of these people with [48:11] governor's races and other congressional seats to get people to turn out. They don't have a Donald [48:15] Trump. They don't have a presidential election. So, is Jocelyn going to pull more Democrats out for [48:20] Al-Sayed? And is Al-Sayed going to get her more votes? There's a lot here going on. Michigan is going to [48:25] be the place to watch, I think, in November. All right. Well, another place we're watching, [48:29] Maine, where Troy Jackson, of course, entered the race after Graham Plattner dropped out. [48:35] Senator Susan Collins, talk about choosing your candidate was, had had a playbook against Graham [48:40] Plattner. Let's put it that way. Troy Jackson is out with a new ad. I want to play it and get [48:44] everyone's reaction on the other side. Take a look. I'm a fifth generation logger from Allagash. [48:48] I grew up a poor kid in a town full of poor people doing everything right and still struggling to get [48:54] ahead. And it's worse now. People in this country work so damn hard and still feel so damn broke. [49:01] That's no way to live. Susan Collins keeps telling us that everything's fine, but we know it's not. [49:08] Toulou, the strategy there, I'm a regular guy who feels your pain, basically. [49:12] The quotes around regular guy, that's what Democrats seem to want. They want people who [49:17] they can trust to go to Washington and not embarrass them, not be involved in scandal. [49:21] With Donald Trump so far underwater in a number of these states, Democrats just want someone who [49:26] can win and be reliable and be dependable. And Troy Jackson is sort of putting that out by saying, [49:31] I'm a fifth generation Mainer. You know me. You know my family. I'm not someone that's come out [49:35] of nowhere with a lot of baggage or skeletons in my closet. And that's something that is appealing [49:40] to a number of Democrats who have shifted from primary mode, where it's all about policy and trying to win [49:45] on the policy front to electability. And Democrats are very much in the electability argument now, [49:51] trying to figure out how do we send a message to Donald Trump? How do we actually win in November? [49:56] And what is it going to take to get someone from our party into the Senate or into these governor [50:01] seats? And less so about the ideological battles within the party. [50:04] Megan, what do you make of the strategy that we're seeing so far from Troy Jackson? Do you think [50:10] it's an effective one? And again, coming after Graham Plattner dropped out and he's really got [50:16] to reintroduce himself to the state in this context. Yeah, I think a lot of Democrats have [50:21] turned the page on Graham Plattner. And I think that put Main back in play, if we're being really [50:24] honest. I think that Troy Jackson is a formidable candidate to Susan Collins. She votes with Trump [50:28] 98 percent of the time. She's rubber stamping his agenda for the economy. And he's coming out there [50:33] saying, I feel your pain. I'm a logger. He's speaking their language. And I think those types of [50:38] things matter. He's authentic. And I think people, this is also, we cannot forget how much this is [50:43] an anti-incumbency election. And I think that people are just tired of the status quo. And [50:47] that's why someone like Troy Jackson has a really good shot to win. [50:50] Jesse, how do you see Main playing out? With how obscenely far off the polls were in both [50:53] Michigan and Wisconsin, I almost wonder if Janet Mills had stuck along in that race a little bit [50:58] longer, whether she might have fared okay against Graham Plattner had she waited until election day [51:03] before stepping aside. Look, Troy Jackson is Graham Plattner minus the Nazi tattoo, but plus, [51:09] you know, a couple of kids with his second cousin. So it's a little bit of a weird vibe still. It's [51:13] not as bad as being a Nazi, that's for sure. But it's all the same policies right on down the line. [51:18] Hardcore progressives, still a problem for Democrats in November. [51:21] Okay, guys, great conversation. Thank you so very much. Really appreciate it. And we are back tomorrow [51:27] with more Meet the Press Now. If it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC news stations. [51:32] I'll have exclusive interviews with leader Hakeem Jeffries and Congressman Ro Khanna, [51:36] plus Senator Bill Cassidy. You do not want to miss it. There is much more ahead on NBC News Now.