Meet the Press Full Episode — October 18

[0:00] This Sunday, hard sell. With just 16 days until the midterms, President Trump barnstorms the [0:07] country in a final push for Republicans as inflation rises and control of Congress hangs [0:13] in the balance. That war is going to end very soon and when it does here, prices are going to [0:18] come tumbling down. They already are. We need to lower gas prices in this country. We need to lower [0:23] diesel prices, but I don't think we need to be making a deal with Russia to do it. I know that [0:26] you're struggling just to keep food on the table, a roof above your head and keep gas in [0:30] your tank. I'll talk to Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock [0:36] and Republican Senator James Lankford, plus Steve Kornacki with our new decision desk poll [0:42] and betrayed. President Trump suspends sweeping new sanctions against Russia just weeks after [0:50] signing them into law as Putin continues his deadly attacks on Ukraine. We hope that president, [0:57] his team will be on our side. I'll talk exclusively to Ukrainian President Zelensky, [1:02] who says he feels betrayed by President Trump. Plus, Musk money. Elon Musk pours millions into [1:10] the fight for Texas. Can his money help Republicans hold the seat? Joining me for insight and analysis [1:16] are NBC News senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson, former Biden White House senior [1:22] advisor Steve Ruschetti and Lonnie Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday. [1:28] It's Meet the Press. From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. [1:36] This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welkin. It's Sunday morning with just 16 days until the midterms. The [1:45] political map is now shifting. The Cook Political Report has moved 11 more House races toward Democrats as [1:52] Republicans face growing voter frustration over the economy. NBC News chief data analyst Steve Kornacki [1:59] is here with me at the big board with the results of our brand new NBC News decision desk poll. Steve, [2:05] quite a snapshot 16 days out. Yeah, Kristen, what you're seeing is the climate that's propelling the [2:09] shifts you're talking about there. So first of all, the big picture question here, Trump's approval [2:13] rating, our decision desk poll. Again, this is registered voters here. Bit of a wider net than you see in [2:18] other polls out there right now. But 39 percent here, the approval rating. And again, this continues [2:23] to be the story asking, do you approve of Trump on inflation here? Only 31 percent, 34 percent in [2:30] Iran. He does do better when it comes to immigration. But voters saying that it's more inflation, [2:35] it's the economy, it's cost of living. That's more front and center to them than immigration, [2:40] than some of the other issues. And he's got very low numbers right there. Also seeing this, [2:44] the generic ballot here, which party would you like to see control Congress? The advantage in [2:49] this decision desk poll here for Democrats is nine points there. If you went back to Trump's first [2:54] midterm in 2018, bad one for Republicans. It was a tick under that. So nine right now they're getting [3:01] toward the high side for Democrats, very alarming for Republicans. And again, what's driving this? [3:05] You're asking folks your financial situation, compare it to a year ago. How is it 44 percent saying [3:12] worse now than a year ago? By the way, among independents, outright majority, 53 percent say [3:18] worse now than a year ago. Again, gets to that climate here. Gas prices, two thirds here in this [3:24] poll saying this is a serious problem, the cost of gas, the cost of fuel for them and for their family. [3:30] This is interesting, too, I thought, Kristen, though, within what we think of as the president's base [3:34] among Republicans in this poll. Look at the difference here. Among those who call themselves [3:39] MAGA Republicans, his approval rating is still 93 percent. It's not bad. Among those who say, [3:44] no, I'm more of a traditional Republican, 63. And compare this to a year ago, look at this, [3:51] the MAGA number is not moving that much. This number is. And the other thing picking up here in [3:56] the poll, how do you identify yourself? We're asking Republicans, do you call yourself a MAGA [4:00] Republican or a traditional Republican? Look at how the balance has shifted. It's now 56 percent [4:05] who say traditional Republican. Look what the number was in 2025. The majority was on the MAGA [4:10] side. So that's shifted, too. We do say, though, end on a note of caution here, a note of uncertainty. [4:15] We showed you that generic ballot here, but break it down this way, asking folks, well, [4:19] you definitely vote in the midterm. There's a motivation edge here for Democrats. They lead by [4:24] 12 on the generic ballot with definitely. That's about 80 percent of the folks in the poll. But those who [4:29] say probably or no, and believe it or not, some folks who say no in a poll do end up voting. [4:35] The Republicans have the advantage with those who are not sure they're going to be voting right [4:39] now. So the more Republicans succeed in expanding the electorate there, they might be able to bring [4:44] that generic ballot down some. Important note of caution there, Steve. Fascinating findings. [4:49] Really appreciate your being here to break it all down. For more expert analysis on the midterms [4:53] all season long, you can subscribe to the Data Dive with Steve Kornacki. His weekly newsletter out [4:59] every Tuesday at mbcnews.com slash data dive. Meanwhile, on the campaign trail this weekend, [5:05] as Americans struggle with rising prices, President Trump lashing out at those blaming [5:11] him for the cost of living. And then they hit me with the word. They said, affordability, [5:19] affordability. In other words, like it was my fault. I just got that. And they've been hitting me with [5:26] that word for the last year. Every time something's a little high. Joining me now is Democratic Senator [5:33] Raphael Warnock of Georgia. Senator Warnock, welcome back to Meet the Press. Great to be here with you. [5:41] Well, good Sunday morning to you. Appreciate your being here. 16 days to go, Senator. I know you have [5:47] been out on the campaign trail campaigning for Democratic candidates in deep red states, [5:54] typically. South Carolina, Mississippi. Do you believe that Democrats can win in these states, [6:00] or are you just trying to make these races competitive, Senator? Let's be clear. Democrats [6:07] can absolutely win in these states. In fact, the road to a Democratic majority in both houses of [6:14] Congress is in the South. I spent the last week moving through North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, [6:22] Mississippi. When you look at these states, when you look at a state like Texas, the South will have [6:30] an outsized role in determining who has the majority. And I worry, to be very honest, that Democrats are [6:38] missing a real opportunity to invest in a serious and sustained way in the South. If we would just lean [6:46] in and stay in through the election and after the election, the kind of victory you saw us achieve [6:53] here in Georgia, it is achievable in a place like Mississippi and all across the South. [6:59] All right. Well, we'll continue to track your travels. I want to talk about the agenda. If, [7:04] for example, Democrats win back the House, as you know, one of the big debates is what should be at [7:10] the top of the agenda. Should Democrats move to impeach President Trump for a third time? Where do you [7:17] stand on this, Senator? Do you believe Democrats should impeach President Trump? Should they win back the [7:23] House of Representatives? Listen, Donald Trump is a crook and he's got to go. And the people who are [7:30] enabling him, they all have to be held accountable. And so we ought to have the investigations to get [7:36] to the truth behind the most corrupt administration in American history. At the same time, we have to walk [7:44] and chew gum. At the same time, Americans are being crushed under these costs, which are connected to [7:49] his corruption. And so we have to end this war, stop the tariffs, fix health care, and then lay out for [7:56] the American people a vision that embraces all of us. Well, on that debate, as you know, there are some [8:02] of your Democratic colleagues, Senator Brian Schatz, Tammy Duckworth, who are worried that impeachment [8:07] could actually backfire. Do you believe that impeachment would backfire against Democrats, Senator? [8:13] Listen, I can tell you that this corruption is crushing the American people. The American people [8:23] are watching themselves get poorer and poorer, while Donald Trump, his family, his friends are [8:30] getting richer and richer. He's $4 billion richer than he was when he entered office. And meanwhile, [8:37] people are crushed under these gas prices, crushed under the price of groceries. I noticed in your earlier [8:45] sound there he was saying they hit him with affordability. This is the problem with Donald [8:50] Trump. It's always about Donald Trump. He's the one being hit. Well, he should talk to my constituents. [8:55] They're being hit by his awful policies. I can't think of a time in my lifetime when you could draw [9:02] such a straight line between the policies in the White House and the economic pain that people are [9:10] feeling in their houses. And so we have to deal with the costs and we have to deal with the corruption [9:15] and the American people deserve no less. [9:18] I know you're headed to Michigan next week. There's a big Senate race there between Abdul Al-Sayed [9:24] and Mike Rogers. Al-Sayed's primary challenger, Haley Stevens, who of course lost to Al-Sayed, [9:33] did carry Michigan counties with large black population. She said this, she said that Rogers, quote, [9:38] is working the black community harder and more successfully than we have ever seen a Republican [9:45] do, or at least that I can remember ever. Senator, what do you think Al-Sayed needs to do in order to win [9:51] over black voters? [9:55] Listen, black voters are suffering like all of our voters, like the American people in general. [10:02] It is in our best interest to make sure that Abdul Al-Sayed wins this election. We are witnessing [10:08] a president, Donald Trump, along with his henchmen and the extreme court, gerrymander black voters, [10:17] especially in the South. Michigan voters have a role to play in that because they are trying to [10:25] diminish our voices. And so I'll be in Michigan this week campaigning. We've got to turn out our [10:32] whole coalition. [10:33] Okay. Let me ask you, because your friend, your colleague, your fellow Georgia Senator John Ossoff [10:40] made a little bit of news this week. He said he has zero interest in running for president. [10:47] Senator, do you rule out a run for president in 2028? [10:53] Be very clear. I am sharply focused on the midterm elections. This is a deeply consequential [11:00] election. We've got to put some guardrails on this president. And John Ossoff and I are aligned [11:06] on this issue. There's nothing more important than defeating his pathetic opponent, Mike Collins. [11:14] We've got to win victories in the House and the Senate. And I remain sharply focused on that. [11:19] All right. I don't hear you ruling it out. I'll have you back to discuss it further. [11:24] Thank you so much, Senator Raphael Warnock. Really appreciate it. [11:28] Good to be here with you. Good to have you this Sunday. And joining me now is Republican [11:33] Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. Senator Lankford, welcome back to Meet the Press. [11:40] Good Sunday morning to you. Good Sunday morning to you. Thank you for being here. I want to start [11:44] with the midterm elections. This month, we heard North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis predict, [11:51] quote, an electoral bloodbath for your party in November. Senator, do you believe Republicans are [11:58] going to hold on to the Senate? I do, actually. Let's let everybody vote. We've got two and a half [12:05] weeks at this point. There's all kinds of predictions and polls and everything that are out there. But [12:09] let's everybody vote right now. What gives you your confidence they're going to hold on to the Senate [12:14] when you have these close races in Texas, Michigan? The list goes on and on. [12:21] So if I go back to, let's say, two years ago at this same time period, NBC News polls, I just heard the [12:28] great report from Steve Gronacki. There'd be a walkthrough. But NBC News reported two years ago [12:32] that Kamala Harris was up by five points in late September, that Dave McCormick was going to lose [12:38] and that Democrats were going to win the House. None of those things actually occurred. This is that [12:44] wonderful time that Americans experience right before an election where everybody's talking about [12:48] what might happen. Only God knows what actually will happen. But every single voter needs to show up [12:54] to actually vote. Elections are about who actually shows up and votes. Polls are about what Americans [12:59] feel. But the actual elections are about what Americans feel that actually vote. So those [13:05] Americans that show up and vote, they actually determine the outcome. All right. Well, I want [13:08] to turn to Ukraine. President Trump, as you know, made some headlines. He waived part of the newly [13:14] passed Lindsey Graham Sanctions Act against Russia this week. Your colleague, John Cornyn, said [13:20] the late Senator Graham would be, quote, appalled. Senator, you urged Congress to pass this law [13:27] in Senator Graham's memory. Do you agree with President Trump's decision to lift these sanctions? [13:33] So the president has the has the ability under the statute to be able to look at national [13:39] interest. And he came back and he said, our gas prices are very high right now. The sanctions are [13:43] specifically targeted on energy. He's trying to walk this fine balance between trying to be able to put [13:48] pressure on Russia, but also to be able to help the American people. So he is choosing the American [13:53] people first is what he's doing. And if anyone's shocked that the America that this president's [13:58] focused on American voters first, they should have listened to him the last several years. He is very [14:04] focused on that. But at the same time, the president is sharing intelligence information with the [14:10] Ukrainians. He is providing weapons systems to the Ukrainians. He's put other sanctions on Russian [14:16] oil companies. So the pressure is on Russia from this president. So any belief that President Trump [14:22] is aligning with President Putin is not true. He's trying to get both of them to the table, but he [14:26] is definitely providing continual support to the Ukrainians. Well, I guess the question is how much [14:30] pressure is he putting on Russia? I want to read part of a statement you made in 2022, just weeks [14:36] after the Russian invasion. You said during this moment of crisis, the United States should work to [14:40] dramatically ramp up energy production to strengthen our allies and to cut off the flow of money into [14:46] Putin's war machine. Russia's economy is heavily dependent on energy sales. We should make sure [14:52] that immediately dries up. To borrow your words, is the U.S. flowing money to Putin's war machine? [14:59] So we do not need to buy any of Putin's oil. In fact, that 2022 law that I strongly supported [15:07] prevented any purchase of Russian oil coming into the United States until there is peace between [15:14] Ukraine and Russia. So that that law still holds true on it. But at the same time, we've got to [15:20] focus on what we can do to put pressure on Russia to get to the table as well as Ukraine. As you know, [15:26] I'm a big believer in trying to be able to produce more American energy. I said that in that quote 2022. [15:31] I believe it now. The challenge that we have on prices right now is the three top producers in the [15:36] world for diesel is the United States, is Russia, and what happens in the Gulf region. Those are the [15:42] three top regions. We've got wars in two of those. And my Democratic colleagues are doing everything [15:47] they can to shut down production in the United States of diesel. Just in the past year, California [15:53] has closed two diesel refineries, which is dramatically increasing the prices of diesel, [15:59] the price of diesel in California, but also affecting the quantities across the entire country. So while [16:04] President Trump is trying to increase the availability of diesel, Democrats are complaining [16:09] about high prices while at the same time trying to be able to shut down refineries. So we need to be [16:14] able to have our own refineries here in the United States. That's a big issue for us to be able to make [16:19] sure we can provide our American security and not have Democrats actually shutting down refineries here [16:24] and then blaming Republicans for actually high prices. Senator, while that may be true, I mean, [16:28] we do have to acknowledge that prices went up after the president started that war with Iran. [16:34] People are seeing that at the gas pump as well. But let me ask you, President Trump said this week [16:39] he finds President Zelensky more difficult to deal with than President Putin. He did strike that oil [16:44] deal with President Putin. Do you think with these moves, the president is siding with Putin? How do you [16:50] answer those who say that? No, pretty clear the president's siding with the free people of Ukraine. [16:57] That is our ally. Again, he's providing intelligence. He's put sanctions on Russian [17:01] oil companies. He continue to provide weapons to Ukraine. Senator, respectfully, Ukraine doesn't [17:08] feel that way necessarily. And President Zelensky has been pretty clear he disagrees with these moves [17:13] by President Trump. Sure. Sure. President Trump is trying to get both sides of the table to be able [17:20] to negotiate. Russia is clearly the aggressor here. They're clearly attacking the power grid for the [17:27] Ukrainians trying to freeze them out this winter. But you can ask President Zelensky how many billions [17:31] of dollars the American people have put in to be able to help him through this time period and what [17:36] we have done to provide intelligence and other things. I understand that they don't always agree [17:41] every day on everything, but it's clear we have been providing aid to them the last five years. [17:46] We'll continue to do that. All right. Senator James Lankford, thank you so very much for joining us. [17:51] We really appreciate it. You bet. Glad to do it. Keep praying for the nation. [17:56] Thank you, Senator. And when we come back, my interview with the President of Ukraine, [18:01] Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Welcome back. And joining me now is the President of Ukraine, [18:16] Volodymyr Zelenskyy. President Zelenskyy, welcome back to Meet the Press. [18:23] Thanks so much. Hello. Good morning. [18:26] What are the implications of President Trump waiving sanctions for Russia? What's the impact? [18:33] Strengthening Putin's war against us because he feels success. He doesn't have any kind of success on the [18:50] battlefield, especially this year, 2026. He lost opportunities on the battlefield and all his [19:00] operations he lost. So we're not successful. And because of our army and they've been very strong, [19:10] our soldiers have been very strong this year. Then we really try to build air defense shield to defend [19:19] our civilians, but always big deficit with Patriot missiles and other kind of air defense. But in any [19:26] way, it's understandable that we have something, we have support of Americans, have support from Europeans. But [19:36] now I think that this, you know, this, it's really big support for Putin. He feels victory with sanctions. And this [19:50] is a little deal. And then Starlink between us. And we have to be very honest. So we're always thankful by partisan [20:00] support. But with Starlink, it's not the support. Really, it's, I mean, this for today, it's more supportive for [20:07] Russian aggression, especially for their strikes against our civilians, against our energy projects. And we're afraid that the question of Russian [20:17] gas will be erased. And, and also, and also the question of all frozen assets. And that's why we say that it's [20:26] very dangerous. This diesel deal is very dangerous. It doesn't have influence on the real influence on the [20:32] price in the United States. We understand that the price is because of blocking of Ormus, straight of Ormus. [20:41] I do want to talk about Starlink, which is Elon Musk's satellite internet network, with a military version called [20:49] Starshield. Who do you think specifically is to blame for the disruptions to the Starlink and the [20:56] Starshield services? Do you think it was a deliberate interruption? [21:00] No, no, of course, the message came from government. I don't know from whom, what cabinets and et cetera. [21:11] And I think it doesn't work either way. But I don't know, really. But we think, oh, it's not my [21:18] opinion. It's opinion of our generals, of our government. And of course, my also opinion, [21:24] the same, that it was the message from American government, government to limit this pit. And [21:30] technically, SpaceX did it. And has the system been fully restored? What's the status right now, [21:39] President Zelensky? No, no, not of course. We have a limitation. The speed is maximum 161 kilometers. [21:51] Let me ask you, because there are reports that the US has cut off intelligence sharing with Ukraine. [21:58] Is that accurate? Has the United States cut off intelligence sharing with Ukraine? [22:02] It was blocked for some period of time. And then it was de-blocked by American side. We are very [22:14] thankful for this. Now it works. Yeah. And now it works. Yeah. How long was it blocked? And what were [22:23] the implications of US intelligence sharing being blocked from your perspective, President Zelensky? [22:30] So we didn't, we didn't, we didn't see attacks of Russia using ballistic missiles. Other information [22:44] we've got from other intelligence, from Europeans and other partners, we have dozens of countries who [22:51] help, but only United States has this unique intelligence to say, to tell us, to tell our side, [23:00] when Russia uses ballistic missiles. And we didn't get it during, during ballistic attacks during three [23:10] days. Okay. Let me ask you big picture about your relationship with President Trump. He has made a [23:19] number of recent statements about you and your relationship. I want to play some of what he has [23:26] said and get your reaction on the other side. Take a listen. No, I'm not a, I'm not a big fan [23:32] of Zelensky. I find Zelensky to be more difficult to deal with than Putin. The president says you are [23:38] more difficult to deal with than Putin. What is your reaction to that? Um, I'm very honest with, uh, [23:53] with the president of the United States and very clear and very supportive America because we are [24:01] strategic partners. This is the kind of relations I understand and I respect, but I can't applause any [24:10] decisions or any words of one or another leader. If they go against Ukraine, if they are support, [24:19] supported for Russia and directly for Putin, he's a killer. That's why I'm very honest and open to say [24:26] that he's a killer. And that's why maybe it's not, uh, maybe it's not very polite and maybe not the [24:36] things what president of the United States waits from me, but I'm better to have partners who are [24:45] very open and clear than to have those who are killers even with a smile on their face. Do you trust [24:52] President Trump? Of course we trust America. We trust, uh, bipartisan support and we trust president [25:03] of the United States. We, we want to trust him and I hope that he will change his, uh, decisions [25:14] because I think that it's, it's all, uh, mistakes and it will not help us and it will not help United [25:21] States. I'm sure. But I mean, it's, it's not my choice and I hope that he will change, uh, change his [25:29] decisions, change his attitude to Putin. We waited from the very beginning of his presidential term that [25:37] he will change his attitude to Putin. For us it's important and essential, absolutely. People, I mean, [25:47] the people want to, to forget what's going on, but we can't give this possibility to forget or to change [25:54] reality or to change the truth. We never, and it's not, we can't compare with Russia. We can't compare [26:04] me and Putin. He's aggressor. He's occupied, he occupied us. He killed adults and children, [26:12] he's soldiers. He's a terrorist. And that's why I hope that president Trump will be very clear with [26:19] this position. I hope so. Do you still believe president Trump is an ally of the United of [26:26] Ukraine? I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. Can Ukraine win this war without the United States? President [26:39] Zelensky? Very difficult. You know, it's, I mean, this, it's, it's all about losses. It's true. [26:52] It's not about prevail or not prevail. It's all about, it's about our people. If it's without [27:01] United States support, it's very difficult. But if United States will support Putin, I mean, [27:09] it's unbelievable. It's tragedy. It's historic mistake and big tragedy. That's why I think that, [27:18] I don't want to, to, to live in illusions, but I think that we have to be pragmatic. If United States [27:24] will take officially, will take the side of Russia, of course, if these two countries will be together, [27:31] of course, of course, we will not prevail and we will not be able to stand. It's understandable. [27:38] That's why we hope that president, his team will be on our side minimum in, in the middle. [27:45] All right. President Zelensky, thank you so very much for your time today. We really appreciate it. [27:54] And you can watch our full interview at meetthepress.com. When we come back, [27:58] Treasury Secretary Scott Besson joins me next. Welcome back. Joining me now is Treasury Secretary [28:08] Scott Besson. Secretary Besson, welcome back to Meet the Press. [28:11] Chris, good to be with you. It's great to have you back. Let's start on inflation. These new inflation [28:16] numbers we got this week. Consumer prices rose in September at the fastest pace in five months to 3.7%. [28:24] Are the president's policies driving up inflation? Kristen, we have an energy shock. And if you [28:31] look underneath the hood in the numbers, the core inflation has been very flat before this month. [28:38] It had been down for four months in a row. So core inflation is down. The food is below the Fed's [28:44] targets. The prescription drugs have had the biggest decrease in history. Rents are down. [28:51] So this is an energy shock. We will get to the other side of the Iran conflict. And those prices [28:56] will come down. Well, core inflation doesn't take energy, for example, into account or food [29:02] into account. And in fact, the price of gas is up 44%, Mr. Secretary, since the start of the war with [29:09] Iran, what do you say to voters right now who say they are struggling and they want change? [29:15] Well, why don't we revisit the Biden era policies where the American people got smoked? 21.5% inflation [29:24] and only about 17% wage increases. Since President Trump has started, [29:28] the American people have gotten real wage increases, 1.5%. We're not satisfied with that. But as I said, [29:35] you know, we're getting these wage increases through our economic policies and the wage increases [29:41] are going to be persistent. We will get to the other side of the Iran conflict. And I believe that the [29:46] energy markets are going to be better supplied than they were. I hear you blaming President Biden, [29:50] but President Trump has been in office now for 636 days. That's about a year and a half. And [29:56] inflation was at 3% when he took office. It's 3.7% now. At what point does the administration [30:02] take responsibility for the economy and say this is the Trump economy? Well, we will own the economy. [30:08] We have so far this year, we've got a million private sector jobs. We've never had this many [30:13] people working in the U.S. The net worth of American households are the highest that it's ever been. [30:19] So, Kristen, let's be clear here. This is an energy supply side shock. We will get to the other side of [30:26] this. This is one factor. Even President Trump has said this is his economy. Let me ask you, [30:31] though, you are Treasury Secretary. Do you anticipate gas prices will come down by the new year? [30:38] Well, again, it will depend on what happens with the Iran conflict. [30:42] OK, let's talk about the war with Ukraine now. President Trump signed an executive order waiving [30:47] sanctions against Russia. I just talked about this with President Zelensky, who tells me this move [30:54] is a big support for Putin. Why is the president rewarding a dictator who invaded Ukraine? [31:00] President Trump has made it clear he wants the killing to stop. And the so-called grand bill [31:07] gives the president the flexibility, gives him 60 days to assess the situation. And, Kristen, [31:13] let's look what's really happening here, that the Europeans have given Russia and Vladimir Putin more [31:21] money than they've given the Ukrainians. They continue to gorge on Russian energy. There is a facility [31:28] called the Amal facility. In the first six months of the year, there were 140 cargoes that left. 136 of [31:35] those went to Europe, to Belgium, to Spain, to France, to the Netherlands. Over $8 billion. So, [31:42] we have asked, in the spring, I asked our European allies to join us in putting secondary tariffs on [31:51] China, on India. They refused. So, why should the U.S. bear the burden? So, President Trump, [31:57] perhaps we will be in contact with our European partners. Why should the U.S. go it alone, Kristen? [32:03] Well, I guess the question is, what role should the U.S. play? During your confirmation hearing in January of [32:08] 2025, you described the war in Ukraine as one of the greatest tragedies in your life, [32:14] and you had this criticism about the Biden administration's approach to sanctions at the [32:19] time. Take a listen. I believe that the sanctions were not fulsome enough. I believe that we, [32:31] I believe that the previous administration was worried about raising U.S. energy prices [32:38] during an election season. Is President Trump doing what you accused President Biden of doing? [32:44] First of all, Kristen, the sanctions were doubled. The Biden administration, in an act of incredible [32:50] bravery, doubled the sanctions on the way out in January of 2025. So, but we did not take those down. [32:58] President Trump sanctioned the two largest Russian energy companies, Rosneft and Lukoil, [33:04] the which dealt a catastrophic blow to the Russian energy industry. So, no one has been tougher on [33:11] Russian sanctions than President Trump. But you there are pushing for even tougher sanctions. [33:17] Kristen, we did tougher. We did the toughest sanctions. Okay, but why lift them now? What has Putin [33:23] done to deserve sanctions relief now? That's my question. That's not true. No sanctions were lifted on [33:29] Friday. No sanctions were lifted. There was a law that was supposed to put more sanctions in place, [33:34] and the president effectively waived that. No sanctions were lifted. Will they be lifted? [33:39] There is a, there is a 60-day period, so we can examine what's going on. The only thing that has [33:46] been lifted is the diesel embargo. And, you know, I will point out, the UK, in May, [33:55] waived their embargo on diesel and jet fuel made with Russian crude. So, you know, where's the [34:03] outrage for the rest of the world? You know, President Zelensky does not criticize his European [34:08] partners. He seemed a bit disassembled in that interview. The Europeans are financing the Russian [34:13] war machine. The U.S. imports $4 billion of Russian products, $1.8 billion, and that is fertilizer. [34:22] The Europeans, they import more than 10 times that. You know, speaking of President Zelensky, [34:28] he says Ukraine will not prevail if the United States sides with Russia. A number of Republican [34:33] senators have said that's what this move does. Is the president siding with Russia here? No. Again, [34:39] that's a false binary. What does the U.S. provide? The U.S. provides intelligence, the Starlink. And [34:47] the, we provide, we allow the NATO to buy U.S. armaments and resell them to Ukraine. You know, [34:58] when President Zelensky asked for patriots, NATO, the European members of NATO, they have plenty of [35:04] patriots. Why aren't they forthcoming with the patriots? Where's Germany giving the Ukrainians [35:09] patriots? You bring up Starlink. President Zelensky just discussed Starlink. I'd like to have you [35:15] respond. Ukraine relies on Starlink, Elon Musk's satellite network, just for our viewers to defend [35:21] against Russian drones. President Zelensky just said he believes the U.S. government slowed the speed. [35:27] Now, President Trump said he had nothing to do with it. But can you definitively say no one in the [35:32] Trump administration ordered restrictions? President Trump and Secretary Rubio have [35:38] categorically said that no one on the Trump administration did that. And I think it is [35:43] very reckless for President Zelensky to make such a charge. How did it get slowed down? [35:49] How were these disruptions caused? Because President Zelensky also said there was a [35:53] break in intel sharing as well. Why did that happen? Again, I don't know anything about that, [35:59] but we've been very clear. And President Zelensky should be very careful about making statements [36:05] like this that aren't true. Bottom line, Mr. Secretary, is Ukraine an ally of the United States? [36:13] President Trump has made it clear that he wants to end this war, that it must stop. And President [36:19] Zelensky presented a false binary this morning that Ukraine must win, the war must end. And that will [36:29] be with some kind of a negotiated settlement. And President Trump is working on that every day. [36:34] He's done it since he came into office. And just to the core question, though, [36:37] does the United States see Ukraine as an ally? Again, that we provide the three different things [36:47] to Ukraine. So that's what you do for an ally. We're not for Russia. So does that mean the United [36:54] States sees Ukraine as an ally? Can you say one way or another? Again, I'm not the Secretary of State. [36:59] I'm not the president. Okay. All right. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson, thank you so very much. [37:06] Appreciate your being here. When we come back with just 16 days to go, the battle for Congress is [37:12] shifting toward Democrats. The panel is next. Elon Musk is pouring millions into the fight for Texas. [37:22] Will it help Republicans? The panel is next. Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News senior [37:33] Washington correspondent, Hallie Jackson, Steve Frischetti, former counselor to President Biden, [37:38] and Lonnie Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to all of you, Hallie Jackson. You're just [37:44] back from the campaign trail. How fun is that? So fun, because we can't wait to hear what everyone [37:49] said to you on the ground. And it comes as the Cook Political Report is moving 11 more races [37:54] in Democrats' direction. What do voters say to you while you were out on the trail? What were your [37:58] takeaways? And what's interesting about the Cook piece of it is that they specifically cited some [38:01] of these Midwestern states. I was in Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas. Got to spend some time out there. And [38:05] granted, listen, it's anecdotal. We get it. But I look at the conversation you and Steve Kornacki had at [38:09] the top of the show. It really is about the economy and affordability. We went out, you'll see this [38:14] piece coming up on Nightly. But in a word, describe the economy. Overwhelmingly, people felt negatively [38:20] about it. And here's one interesting thread, sort of something that we saw commonly in these three [38:25] states. It wasn't that people were saying, I'm about to lose my home. It was, I'm one repair away from [38:31] having that happen. I can't fix my car. I mean, people are saying, I heard a lot. I'm doing okay, but I know a lot of [38:38] people who are struggling, and I'm so close to the edge. And I thought there were two people who were really [38:42] instructive in this. I met them both in Kansas. Both of them, traditional Republicans, have voted Republican. [38:48] One man voted for Trump three times. He says, I can't bring myself to vote for Roger Marshall right now. He's not [38:53] going to vote for Adam Hamilton. He says he's not going to get there. That's entirely on the table. And this is the [38:57] kind of voter that Republicans need to show up in some of these places, in a place like Kansas. Another woman runs a [39:02] food pantry. She's paying more for it. She said her cans are ravioli, right? 50 cents more to try to bring it in for [39:08] these food pantry people that need help. And there's more people who need help. Again, [39:12] traditionally a red voter. And she also doesn't know what she's going to do coming up in two. It's [39:17] real undecided about this. Those are the voters who are going to make all of the difference, Lonnie [39:21] Chen, in places like Kansas, in places like Texas, quite frankly, where you're dealing with the [39:25] headwinds that President Trump has. You're also dealing with the quality of the candidate. Ken [39:30] Paxton has his own headwinds. And it comes as this week, Elon Musk donated a staggering $158 million [39:36] to PAC supporting Ken Paxton. The race in Texas has surpassed $500 million in combined ad spending, [39:44] the second non-presidential race to pass that threshold. What do you make of the state of play [39:50] there, particularly when you take into account what Hallie learned on the road? [39:54] Well, I think, first of all, the money from Elon Musk and from the pro-Trump super PACs, [39:58] that has definitely equalized the spending in Texas. That has brought us into a situation where it [40:03] will be a competitive race. I do think it's the case money has diminishing returns, though. [40:07] At some point, voters do kind of check out. They've seen enough ads. They get sick of it. [40:12] So I do think we're reaching that point pretty soon. With respect to Texas, I mean, look, [40:16] you have to start with the baseline here. President Trump won the state of Texas last time around, [40:20] you know, 14 points-ish. And so you have to believe that there's enough sort of stuff working [40:27] against gravity there to make James Tallarico really, really competitive and potentially beating [40:32] Ken Paxton. There are a lot of things about Ken Paxton's candidacy that have been troubling, [40:37] whether it's his own personal issues. Some of that background certainly is there. [40:40] But I think if you look at the performance of Paxton in his last few races, 2022, when he ran for [40:45] attorney general, a lot of this stuff was swirling around him already. He actually outperformed Ted [40:51] Cruz in 2018 when Ted Cruz ran in that cycle against Beto O'Rourke. So I just think what we have to [40:56] understand is that there are some parts of Texas where I think Ken Paxton is going to do really, [41:00] really well. He's going to do better, in fact, probably than other Senate candidates have done. [41:04] Southeast Texas, the South Plains, the Panhandle. Now, I get it. There's been migration into Texas. [41:09] The population has changed. But I just think that the fundamentals in Texas still favor Ken Paxton. [41:16] And I do think when all the votes are counted, Paxton is going to be the next senator from Texas. [41:20] Steve Verschetti, what do you make of that? [41:21] I don't know. Number one, I think Musk can spend it all. Even Elon Musk can spend it all at this point. [41:27] And it's not going to cover up what people are feeling about the economy. Steve presented the data [41:32] this morning. And I think it's really overwhelming. The generic ballot is at plus nine for Democrats [41:41] right now. I think it's an enormously difficult environment. The six months of inflation numbers [41:48] have underscored what people are feeling, Hallie, just like you described, what they're feeling in [41:54] their lives. It's gas prices, it's groceries, it's health care, and it's housing. And those costs [42:01] are making the arithmetic of life too difficult for everyday people. And they're not going to be [42:08] persuaded by an obtuse ad about something else that Musk or even the Republican Party want to drive [42:18] as a message. It's not working. [42:19] Well, it's really visceral for people. I mean, this is stuff that people feel on a really personal [42:22] level. And I'll say, I've spoken with some, even just this weekend, some Republican operatives who [42:26] were like, hey, of all the bazillions of dollars that are getting spent on some of these races, [42:30] Republicans may not be doing enough in some of these key spots to focus on what they've done [42:34] positively for the economy. I think the war against Iran is huge. That guy I told you about that I [42:38] talked to said he contacted Senator Marshall's office about the war. He was so frustrated with it [42:42] and what it's done to his gas prices. [42:43] Hallie, I'll say this. And we talked about this on Labor Day when you had Senator Kennedy for his [42:47] interview. And he said, you know, our problem is, this is a Republican senator from Louisiana, [42:51] our problem is we haven't done anything to address the things that people are really concerned [42:56] about. He said that on air with you. [42:57] Lonnie, the word visceral, I think, captures why this is such an extraordinary environment. [43:04] When you go to fill up your gas, when that gas is above $4 a gallon, you heard me ask the [43:07] Treasury Secretary, when's it going to come down? That's something that people are dealing [43:11] with every single week. [43:13] Well, look, that is the single best proof point for why it is that some of these states like [43:18] Iowa, like Ohio, where, by the way, the president did just almost just as well in those states [43:23] as he did in Texas in 2024. And that's why in places like Iowa is going to be an incredibly [43:29] close race. And that is because of the state of the economy, tariffs, which we haven't talked [43:32] much about, the situation with Canada. All of that factors into what makes this a race, [43:37] because you cannot tell people how to feel about the economy. [43:40] Well, Hallie, yeah, exactly right. And I guess all of this comes as we're now getting all [43:45] of this new news about Russia and Ukraine, the president basically pausing those waivers. [43:49] I wonder when you're on the ground. One Republican strategist said to me, this is a [43:55] distraction for candidates. They don't want to have to answer these questions. [43:58] And some of them are having to answer some of these questions. And by the way, what an [44:01] interview with the Treasury Secretary that you've conducted here. And I do think, you [44:06] know, I didn't hear the word tariffs in dozens of conversations. You didn't hear the word [44:10] tariffs, but you hear all about the downstream impacts of what those tariffs had done. [44:13] And I do think that the people who are working on some of these campaigns and talking with [44:17] folks across multiple campaigns, they understand that. They understand that they've got to figure [44:21] out a way to come across as feeling the pain of the people that they're looking to represent. [44:27] But in the case of some of these Republicans, it's the war that has made these prices go up. [44:31] And there's not a great answer for that. [44:32] Yeah, it's not. And it's exactly what Hallie just said. Tariffs and the war in Iran are directly [44:40] responsible. A concrete example of why prices are up. We've seen it in the last six months. [44:45] There's no getting around that. And because of that, people are holding the people responsible [44:50] for that accountable. And that's why you're seeing the numbers that we're seeing. [44:54] Well, I thought it was interesting, Lonnie Chen, because you heard Secretary Besson basically say, [44:58] look, you have to go back to the Biden administration. We're hearing that from President [45:02] Trump on the campaign trail as well, who still says he gets an A-plus for handling on the economy. [45:06] Does that work, do you think? We are in the home stretch here. [45:11] Yeah. Look, there are very few things, I think, that will change the fundamental dynamics of this [45:15] race. And again, it's hard to convince people the economy is good when they don't think the [45:20] economy is good, right? I mean, you can make all the arguments you want about where the numbers are [45:24] and what things are happening around the economy around them. But the reality is people are going [45:28] to vote their pocketbooks in this election. President Biden tried to make that. People [45:30] are going to vote their pocketbooks. Yes. And the numbers, by the way, were different then. [45:33] That's right. It's almost counterproductive, I think, sometimes when you try to tell people, [45:37] look, it's not so bad. You know, where the whole concept that maybe you need to pick another [45:41] protein to eat instead, right? I mean, that's a tough argument to make. And so I think that's [45:45] where we are. There just aren't very many things that are going to alter the fundamentals of the [45:49] election, which is why I think the House is going to be a very, very difficult push for Republicans. [45:53] Steve, do you think so? I mean, are Democrats feeling emboldened about the House? Could [45:56] they be overly confident? I'll tell you that they're going to avoid that. We're going to run [46:00] through the tape. Democratic candidates all over the country. Nobody feels comfortable until it's [46:04] election day and two days beyond after all the votes are counted. We just are going to play this [46:11] out. I think the environment is the environment. No amount of spending from whatever PAC source is [46:18] driving it into the elections are going to change that dynamic. People know what they're experiencing and [46:25] what they feel. Yeah. And they're going to vote to make sure that people who failed to address the [46:31] things that they believe were front and center and on the table, they're going to hold them [46:37] responsible. Hallie, with the final 20 seconds, I mean, did you feel that uncertainty on the trail [46:42] that no one was overly confident? Oh, I did. I mean, I think that people, you know, folks try to spin [46:47] on either side, but I do think there's a real sense. The question is, Steve, you're talking, and I think [46:51] if these voters turn out, I mean, that's such another, that's another huge question here is [46:55] are people going to feel so frustrated that they just go, I'm good. I'm staying home this time. [46:59] I talked to one guy who said a con was the biggest issue. He's furious. He's furious about gas. [47:03] He's not voting. One of the big questions we'll be watching. Great conversation. Thank you so much. [47:07] That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, [47:11] it's Meet the Press.