Meet the Press Full Episode — May 31

[0:01] This Sunday, midterm pressure, rising costs from the war with Iran, [0:06] heightened the political stakes as peace talks drag on amid a wave of new strikes. [0:12] They thought they were going to outweigh me. [0:14] You know, we'll outweigh him. [0:15] He's got the midterms. [0:16] I don't care about the midterms. [0:17] Is there a deal to end the war? [0:20] Plus, conservative crossroads. [0:22] We just made history. [0:24] President Trump scores another win in Texas, [0:27] elevating Ken Paxton and tightening his grip on the Republican Party. [0:32] His endorsement is the most powerful force in politics. [0:36] But is the president putting his Senate majority at risk? [0:39] I'll talk to former Vice President Mike Pence. [0:42] And who's next? [0:44] Democrats wrestle with the lessons of 2024 as the 2028 field begins to take shape. [0:51] As I watched it, I thought, oh my God, he's having a stroke. [0:54] Has the party learned from its past mistakes? [0:58] I'll talk to Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, an emerging 2028 contender. [1:04] Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Garrett Haake, [1:10] Leanne Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for Puck, [1:13] former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings, [1:16] and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. [1:20] Welcome to Sunday. [1:21] It's Meet the Press. [1:22] From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. [1:29] This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welkin. [1:34] Good Sunday morning. [1:36] President Trump is facing one of the most consequential decisions of his presidency, [1:41] whether to accept a deal with Iran or risk a deeper conflict in the Middle East. [1:46] After a week of new strikes by both sides, [1:49] the president is signaling he's in no rush to make a deal. [1:53] They originally said, we will not develop a nuclear weapon. [1:56] I said, well, what happens if you buy a nuclear weapon? [1:58] So now it says we will not develop or in any way purchase a military weapon. [2:03] That's a big difference. [2:04] So we're getting what we want slowly. [2:07] Very tough negotiators. [2:09] It takes a long time. [2:11] I'm in no hurry. [2:12] I'd like to say I'm in a hurry because, you know, gasoline prices are going to come tumbling down. [2:16] But if you're going to be in a hurry, you're not going to make a good deal. [2:19] As the conflict drags on, the economic fallout is growing here at home, [2:24] with inflation rising to its highest level in three years. [2:27] All of it putting more pressure on President Trump ahead of the midterms [2:31] in places where Republicans may be vulnerable. [2:35] This week, the Cook Political Report moved the Texas Senate race from likely Republican [2:40] to lean Republican after Trump-backed candidate Attorney General Ken Paxton [2:45] defeated longtime incumbent Senator John Cornyn. [2:49] Paxton will face Democrat James Tallarico in November. [2:52] Democrats who haven't won a Texas Senate race since 1988 now see an opening. [2:58] But President Trump insists politics isn't driving his thinking on Iran. [3:03] They thought they were going to outweigh me. [3:05] You know, we'll outweigh him. [3:06] He's got the midterms. [3:07] I don't care about the midterms. [3:08] Joining me now is former Vice President Mike Pence. [3:13] He's the author of the new book, What Conservatives Believe, [3:17] Rediscovering the Conservative Conscience. [3:20] Mr. Vice President, welcome back to Meet the Press. [3:22] Thank you, Chris. [3:23] It's good to be back. [3:23] It's wonderful to have you here, have your book. [3:25] We're going to talk about it in just a moment. [3:27] I do want to start, though, on Texas, this big political shakeup this week. [3:33] Ken Paxton, now the Republican nominee. [3:36] Of course, what happens in Texas could help to determine whether Republicans hold on to control [3:41] of the Senate. [3:43] Republicans themselves, though, have raised ethical, moral, even strategic concerns [3:50] about Attorney General Ken Paxton. [3:53] Do you believe that Ken Paxton as the nominee could put the Texas Senate seat in jeopardy for Republicans? [3:59] Well, I have great confidence in Republicans in Texas. [4:05] And maintaining the majority in the Senate is enormously important in a midterm election [4:11] where it's going to be an uphill battle in the House of Representatives, [4:15] although I'm proud of the effort Republicans are making in that regard as well. [4:19] But, look, I see all of this as evidence of, you know, that President Trump has enormous popularity [4:25] in the Republican Party. [4:27] His endorsement in Texas, his endorsement in Louisiana, his endorsements in Indiana [4:32] prove that out. [4:34] I think the reason the president is popular is because during our time in office and over [4:40] the last several years, people have seen this is a president who's been willing to fight [4:44] the radical left and to champion the principles that have defined our party for 50 years. [4:51] And I'm grateful for that. [4:54] But the reason I wrote the book is because there's a new threat to that historic conservatism [4:59] in the Republican Party. [5:00] And it's a threat from the populist right that would embrace big government, [5:07] the policies, many of which have been embraced by this administration, [5:11] of not only broad-based tariffs, nationalization of businesses, price controls. [5:16] There's, you know, also been a willingness to embrace some of the rhetoric of the populist [5:22] right with regard to isolationism. [5:25] There are voices that have, you know, pulled us back from unwavering support as leader of the [5:30] free world, particularly in Eastern Europe and even many challenging our support for Israel. [5:36] And then lastly, just marginalizing the right to life, which has always been at the center of our [5:40] movement. [5:41] So, for me, I'm not surprised by what happened in Texas or in the other primaries [5:46] because of the way the president has championed our cause against the radical left. [5:52] But I want people to understand what conservatives believe as we go into this midterm election. [5:59] I'd love to see Republicans get back to running on those conservative principles again. [6:04] And in 2028, I think it'll be more important to decide what we're for before we decide who we're for. [6:10] Well, you talk about the case for conservative principles, and I'm going to read some of [6:15] your book in just a moment. [6:16] But you also talk about the importance of character, that character matters in public service. [6:21] Ken Paxton was indicted on security fraud charges in 2015. [6:26] He was impeached by members of his own party over alleged bribery in 2023. [6:31] His wife filed for divorce in 2025 after accusing him of adultery. [6:35] The bottom line, Mr. Vice President, do you support Ken Paxton? [6:41] Well, I could never. [6:42] If I was voting in Texas, I could never vote for the Democrat nominee, Tallarico, who is [6:47] a radical left, supports abortion on demand. [6:51] But do you support Ken Paxton? [6:54] Would you give? [6:54] The ideology of the Democratic Party. [6:56] Look, I think in many respects, Republicans have lost our way, but Democrats have lost their mind. [7:03] And I think the reason why we're going to hold the Senate, and we have a real shot to hold the [7:09] House, is because of the extremism on the Democratic side. [7:14] I mean, you literally have candidates, not just the mayor of New York, but some of the [7:18] most prominent voices in the party that are openly advocating for socialist policies and socialism [7:24] itself. [7:25] And I think that's the reason why this election is so important. [7:28] But it's also the reason why I think there's an enormous opportunity ahead for Republicans [7:33] to be a choice, not an echo, as President Ronald Reagan said back in the day, is to literally [7:40] say as they go farther and farther to the progressive left, the answer ought not to be the antidote [7:47] of the populist right of protectionism, isolationism, and marginalizing the right to life. [7:52] The answer ought to be to sound, as the Bible says, a clear call for conservative principles. [7:59] And that's what I'm going to be advocating in this book and across the country. [8:04] Yeah, let's talk big picture, because Senator John Cornyn's defeat is the latest. [8:08] You talked about this string of losses, Bill Cassidy, Congressman Thomas Massey, several [8:14] Indiana state senators. [8:16] Senator Lindsey Graham was on this program several weeks ago. [8:19] He told me the Republican Party is the party of Donald Trump. [8:22] Is the Republican Party the party of Donald Trump? [8:25] Oh, I don't think there's any question about the president's popularity. [8:29] I give him all the credit in the world for the hold that he has on Republican voters. [8:34] But I maintain to you that it's because of the president's commitment to take on the radical [8:42] left in our four years and also ever since. [8:46] But I think what's lesser known right now is the way the second Trump administration has departed [8:52] from the conservative agenda that we governed on, the conservative agenda that has defined the [8:57] Republican Party since the days of Ronald Reagan and before. [9:02] That's an agenda of American leadership, limited government, free market economics, the right to [9:08] life. [9:09] And on a number of those issues, the president's been good. [9:12] I want to give him credit for strong securing the border, the extending tax cuts, standing with [9:18] Israel. [9:19] But when you see an administration with broad-based tariffs nationalizing American businesses, [9:26] questioning and pulling back from from our allies as they endure the brutal assault in [9:33] eastern Europe from Russia, I think that I think Republicans would do well to take some time to [9:40] reflect on what we believe again and take that message to the American people. [9:44] Is there room right now, Mr. Vice President, in the Republican Party for disagreement? [9:50] Well, in primaries, there's a little less room. [9:56] What about general elections? You're making a robust case against populism. What about, broadly speaking? [10:04] I think there's, I think that we're living in a time of, you know, extraordinary change in both political parties. [10:14] You literally see the Democratic Party being dragged off, not just to the radical left, [10:19] but to socialist policies and extremism on social issues. And, but in the Republican Party, [10:27] there are these fault lines. And, but I still believe, Kristen, that the overwhelming majority [10:32] of people that ever vote Republican believe in freedom, believe in limited government, believe [10:38] in traditional values. And I think if Republicans this fall and in 2028 hold up those time-honored [10:46] conservative principles, those voters will rally to our cause. [10:49] All right. Well, let's delve into your book, What Conservatives Believe. I want to read an excerpt. [10:55] You write this. [10:56] We face a momentous choice. Will we remain a party of conservative beliefs or will we follow the siren [11:04] song of populism, unmoored to conservative principles? The future of our party, our movement, [11:09] and even our country belongs to one or the other. It cannot belong to both. The divide between these [11:17] two factions is too vast. Republicans must pick a side. Strong words there, Mr. Vice President. [11:25] Is your book effectively a rejection of the MAGA movement? [11:29] Well, not at all. You know, Kristen, I spoke in front of more MAGA rallies than I could possibly [11:39] remember. And these were some of the most freedom-loving, patriotic, God-fearing, conservative [11:45] Americans that I ever met. And they still are. I mean, I understand the loyalty to the president. [11:52] I understand the desire to support him in primary elections and to stand by him while he pushes back [12:00] on the radical left. But I believe that the overwhelming majority of people in the MAGA movement [12:05] believe that America is the leader of the free world, believe in limited government, [12:10] less taxes, less regulations, would reject ideas like nationalization of businesses and price controls [12:17] and broad-based tariffs. And at the core of our movement is a commitment to the sanctity of life. [12:23] I mean, we had the most pro-life administration in American history. We put the judges on the court [12:29] who sent Roe versus Wade to the ash heap of history where it belongs. But, Kristen, [12:35] this administration, we see a desire to relegate the right to life to a state-only issue. [12:41] I actually have a pro-abortion secretary of HHS who has done nothing to limit the availability of [12:50] the abortion pill on a mail-order basis that Joe Biden made possible across the country. [12:57] Dangerous pill, claims unborn lives is a danger to women. So when you see the administration embracing [13:04] those populist ideas, I think we're going to have a fulsome debate about the future. [13:09] Okay. And we should say there is a debate over the medical background to what you're saying, [13:14] but let's stay on this topic. Look, you ran for president against Donald Trump in 2024, [13:21] arguing that he put himself above the constitution on January 6th. And I guess my question is, [13:28] do you believe that President Trump is a populist and that the party needs to move beyond Donald Trump? [13:34] Well, I'm not much for labels, but I do say in the book that I lost count of the number of times [13:41] that I would say to the president privately, well, that's the conservative position. And he'd wave [13:48] his hand and say, he'd say, that's not conservative, it's just common sense. I mean, in fairness to the [13:54] president, he's never really said he was a conservative. And in so many ways, I think he's, [14:00] you know, he represents in some measure what the populist right is about. The populist right is [14:08] attempting to take the president's departure from the conservative agenda, whether it be on tariffs, [14:14] whether it be with regard to Ukraine and Eastern Europe, whether it be regard to life, and try to [14:19] make that the new foundational philosophy of the Republican Party. So are you saying it's time [14:24] for Republicans to move beyond Donald Trump? Well, look, you know, as I wrote in the book, [14:31] leaders fade into history, but principles endure. And I truly do believe that Republicans deserve to [14:39] know that there is a populist right movement. Some of their agenda items the administration has [14:45] embraced, some they haven't. I mean, I give the president, I give the president great credit for [14:50] the way he stood with Israel, stood up to Iran, to the way the president extended all those Trump-Pence [14:56] tax cuts. But where he's embraced that populist movement, I think you could see the Republican [15:02] Party, if we don't get it right, we're going to end up moving in the progressive direction. And for [15:07] the sake not of our party or elections, but for the sake of the country, I believe we have to have a [15:14] party that's advancing these timeless conservative principles of life and liberty. Let's talk about [15:20] the future. A lot of people see Vice President J.D. Vance as the potential heir apparent to [15:26] President Trump. Could Vice President J.D. Vance be the type of leader of the conservative [15:32] movement that you are talking about here? Well, I think that'll be up for voters to decide. [15:40] But do you see him as someone who embodies the core conservative principles that you write about in [15:45] this book? Well, what I'll tell you is my focus, the focus of the book, is I think it's going to be [15:51] important as we look to 2028 to first focus on what we're for before we focus on who we're for. [15:59] I mean, when I was Vice President, I led in the polls as a potential successor to the President as well. [16:05] It comes with the office to a certain extent. And the Vice President has been carrying himself in a [16:10] dignified and honorable way. I respect that. But I think as we go into 2028, my hope, my ambition is [16:18] that we will have a fulsome debate over whether this populist right agenda, which is a big government [16:25] Republican agenda that marginalizes values, that pulls back from American leadership in the world, [16:30] is who we are, or whether we're going to return to those time-honored principles that have defined [16:36] our party and not just won elections, but won a strong and free and prosperous America. [16:41] We're almost out of time. Let's do a little rapid fire here. You've heard about the President's [16:46] $1.8 billion fund, the so-called anti-weaponization fund to pay people who say they were unfairly [16:52] investigated or prosecuted by the government. It's tied up in the courts right now. But Mr. Vice [16:57] President, should the government in any instance compensate people who attacked law enforcement [17:03] officers on January 6th? Well, look, I think that the weaponization fund is a bad idea from the [17:10] start. And I would encourage the administration just to drop it. The Justice Department has the [17:16] ability to settle cases like they did with that pro-life family who was put upon during the Biden [17:21] administration. Got us a well-deserved seven-figure settlement this week. But let's get rid of this [17:28] fund. I mean, it's deeply offensive to me that you could have a fund that could even possibly [17:36] compensate people who assaulted police officers or vandalized the Capitol on January 6th. And I think [17:42] that's broadly held by most Republicans and most Americans. [17:46] Finally, Mr. Vice President, I have to ask you, a year ago, I asked you and I had the chance to sit [17:52] down with you if you would ever consider running for president again. You told me, quote, I don't [17:58] see that in my future. Are you ruling out a run in 2028? [18:03] Well, look, I like to say to people, my life is not my own. I'm a man of faith. And Karen and I will pray [18:10] about the future. But I have no active ambition to reenter politics. As Luke Holmes says in the song, [18:17] I think I rode that rocket about as far as it can fly. This book, for me, is all about trying to play [18:25] a role now in my party to be a champion for the conservative principles that drew me to the [18:30] Republican Party to begin with. Their principles of a commitment to limited government, the rule of law, [18:35] American leadership in the world, traditional moral values. I want to champion those principles [18:41] with what remains of my bully pulpit. And we'll let the future take care of itself. [18:47] All right. Well, we'll keep the conversation going. Vice President Mike Pence, thank you so very much [18:51] for being here in person. Thank you, Kristen. Really appreciate it. Always great to see you. [18:55] When we come back, Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky joins me next. [19:00] Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky. Governor [19:15] Beshear, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thanks for having me. [19:20] Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. We want to start with the results in Texas this [19:26] week. Your reaction to Senator Cornyn's loss to Attorney General Ken Paxton. Paxton will now face [19:33] off against State Senator James Tallarico. Democrats have not won a Texas Senate seat, as you know, [19:42] in more than 30 years. How confident are you that Democrats can actually win this race? [19:49] Listen, Texas is in play. Democrats have never run against a candidate like Ken Paxton that is so [19:55] corrupt that his own party impeached him. This is someone who does not have the character, [20:01] I'll say it, since Vice President Pence won't, to serve as AG or even as dog catcher. This is [20:07] somebody who would use his office to enrich himself. That would be a rubber stamp for the [20:12] president and would do nothing for the people of Texas. He has shown that as AG. He cannot be the [20:18] next U.S. Senator there. And James Tallarico is out there. He is spreading his message about being [20:23] there for American families, about putting them ahead of the politics, about bringing down prices, [20:28] expanding access to health care, making sure they feel safe in their community. Those things [20:34] that make life just a little bit better and a little bit easier as the Trump administration is [20:38] making things so much harder. Well, Governor Beshear, let's talk about James Tallarico as a candidate. [20:43] As you know, Ken Paxton's campaign already has attack ads out, hitting him over past comments on race, [20:52] gender, religion. Take a look at one of them. [20:54] This is Texas. This is not. There are many more than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six. [21:03] This is Texas. This is not. The American flag is such a complicated symbol for most of us. [21:09] This is Texas. This is not. They're going to call me a radical leftist. This is Texas. This is not. [21:17] Something that you love that's not family or friends. I love, and just say this because it's on my mind, [21:26] the trans children. So let me ask you, Tallarico now says he did miss the mark on some of those [21:34] statements. You've previously said Democrats need to shy away from what you have referred to as [21:39] advocacy speak. Do you place those comments by James Tallarico into that category of advocacy speak? [21:46] What would your counsel be to him? Well, I think what you've got here is a candidate in Ken [21:52] Paxton that knows he has nothing to offer. And so what does he do? He simply attacks his opponent [21:57] over and over. James Tallarico is out there showing the values of loving your neighbor as [22:03] yourself and the parable of the Good Samaritan that says that everyone is our neighbor. He's trying [22:08] to support Americans of all types to be less judgmental. Why? Because the Bible tells us to [22:14] judge not, lest ye be judged. But we heard it from Mike Pence, too. When asked about a corrupt [22:20] candidate in Ken Paxton and whether he could support him, all he did is turn and attack Democrats. [22:26] That's not very Christian of him, but it's also not a very good strategy. [22:30] Let's talk about the message that we are hearing from you. You spoke at [22:33] South Carolina Palmetto Dinner Friday night. I want to play a little bit of that speech and [22:38] do some analysis on the other side. [22:40] And while all this is painful that we're seeing from the Trump administration, [22:45] it is providing us a huge opportunity for Democrats to go out and regain the trust [22:51] of the American people, to be the party of common sense, common ground in getting things done. [22:57] Democrats can win again by taking back the middle, and it is there for the taking. [23:02] Governor, as you know, there's a lot of energy with the progressive left right now. [23:07] How can Democrats both, as you say, take back the middle without alienating progressives? [23:16] Well, I don't think a lot about progressive or moderate. I think about the American people. [23:22] The way that Democrats win, regardless of what box they're put into by the media, [23:27] is to focus on the daily lives of our people. It's the idea that when most Americans wake up in [23:32] the morning, they're not thinking about the next election. They're thinking about their job and [23:35] whether they make enough to support their family. They're thinking about their next doctor's [23:38] appointment for themselves, their parents or their kids. They're thinking about the roads [23:42] and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off at, and whether they feel safe [23:46] in their community. Regardless of what part of the Democratic Party you fall in, [23:50] if you believe in the American dream, if you want to make sure that it's viable again, [23:54] if you want to bring down the age of first-time homeownership, which right now is about 40 years old, [24:00] then there is opportunity out there. The American people are struggling. Donald Trump said he'd bring [24:06] prices down, but his tariffs have skyrocketed them. It was an illegal tax on the American people. [24:11] His war in Iran has the price of gasoline and diesel through the roof, which is making everything [24:17] more expensive. His big, ugly bill is ripping health care away from rural communities and taking [24:22] food off the table of Americans. Where the Democratic Party needs to be is one that focuses really on those [24:29] nonpartisan issues. If we're going to make your life a little bit better, whether you are a Democrat, [24:34] a Republican, or an Independent, we know the world is too tough right now, and it's our job to do better. [24:39] I want to ask you about one of the big headlines for Democrats this week, former First Lady Jill [24:44] Biden speaking out, weighing in on that disastrous debate performance by former President Joe Biden back [24:51] in 2024. Take a look at what she said. Were you horrified as you saw it unfold? [24:57] I wasn't horrified. I was frightened because I had never, ever seen Joe like that before or since. [25:10] Never. Or since. Yes. Or since. You've never seen him like that? Never. No. [25:15] What happened? I don't know what happened. I mean, when I, as I watched it, I thought, [25:19] oh my God, he's having a stroke. And it scared me to death. This is a sharp contrast to what the former [25:27] First Lady said publicly in the aftermath of the debate. Take a look. Joe, you did such a great job. [25:34] You answered every question. You knew all that. Did former First Lady Jill Biden mislead the American [25:42] people, Governor? Well, what I see is, is a First Lady that loves her husband, that is fiercely [25:50] protective. And I'm not going to criticize that. We were all concerned when we saw that debate. [25:56] This was a president who governed in a way that, that helped my state, that helped me bring in a [26:02] significant number of jobs. That's helping me build a bridge that people said no one would ever build in [26:07] their lifetime between Northern Kentucky and Ohio. But I think it's fair to look back now, [26:12] given that Joe Biden did drop out and say he shouldn't have run for reelection in the first [26:16] place. You can both compliment him for things he did that helped your state and your people, [26:22] but also be able to look back and know that was a decision that should have been made differently. [26:26] And what are the broader lessons, do you think, that Democrats should take from [26:30] that moment, Governor? Well, the lesson that I primarily take is the lesson from the end of the [26:38] 2024 campaign. And that's that most American struggles are similar. It's about paying the bills at the end of [26:46] the week and the end of the month. It's about people starting to feel that the economic system is [26:51] rigged. Why? Because they're working hard. They're playing by the rules. They should get ahead, [26:55] but they're falling behind. They can't take their kids on the same vacation that their parents [27:00] took them on. They're worried about whether they can leave their kids better off. That's the party [27:04] that we have to be. One that spends 80% of its time focused on things that matter to 100% of the [27:10] American people. Yes, we should stand up for all our principles. Yes, we should push back against [27:14] discrimination every time we see it. But 80% of our time spent on things that matter to 100% of [27:20] the American people. That means voters can say, I might not agree with you on this or that issue, [27:25] but I know you're going to work hard to make my life better. [27:28] Let me ask you about this nationwide debate over redistricting, including South Carolina, [27:33] which will, of course, be one of the first states to vote in 2028. Efforts to redraw South [27:38] Carolina's maps ahead of the midterms failed this week, but it does not eliminate the chances of [27:45] redistricting in 2028. Do you support a national ban on partisan redistricting? [27:51] I do. But let me first say, I'm proud to be in South Carolina, the state that said no thanks [27:58] to Donald Trump's redistricting. And yes, please, to more governance by Jim Clyburn, the soul and the [28:04] conscious of the U.S. Congress. Having his voice there is so critical. And the idea that basically [28:12] through cheating, you would try to eliminate that important member of Congress. And by the way, [28:18] he would have won in any district, but proud of the state for what it did. You know, I think it's [28:22] time for more than just banning partisan redistricting. I think it's time for a fix the darn country [28:28] constitutional amendment. That way we can enshrine in our constitution that you're not allowed to draw [28:33] districts this way. We can overturn Citizens United and get big corporate money out of politics. [28:40] We ought to have term limits, even for the Supreme Court, so that we don't see what we are seeing [28:44] right now and people trying to game when they retire to have somebody else on for 30 or 40 years. [28:51] People deserve better governance. And what we've seen is our three branches of government on the [28:55] federal level break down. It's time to take some bold action to where our people can see and can trust [29:01] this system. And I misspoke. I think I said your state of South Carolina. What I meant to say is [29:06] you've been in South Carolina this weekend, including for Jim Clyburn's fish fry this weekend, [29:12] historically, of course, a gathering for presidential hopefuls before they announced that they're [29:17] running for president. I've asked you this question before. You have not ruled it out. Where are you [29:22] in your decision-making process, Governor? Are you leaning toward a run? [29:28] I'm the same place that I've been, fully focused on 2026, because as the head of the Democratic [29:34] Governors Association, we're going to elect Democratic governors where people aren't expecting it, [29:39] and we're going to change the map for 28. When we flip Iowa, Iowa's in play in 28. When we flip Ohio, [29:44] it's in play in 28. I was just down with Doug Jones in Alabama. The primary turnout there for Democrats [29:51] doubled from four years ago. Keisha Lance Bottoms won a primary going away and is an incredibly [29:57] strong candidate. Governor, you sounded a lot like a candidate. You sounded a lot like a candidate [30:02] in South Carolina. Is it fair to say you're thinking about it seriously? Well, I haven't ruled it out, [30:08] but I haven't sat down and had that conversation with my family. I'm trying to fire up Democrats. [30:12] To be a voice of reason in the chaos, it is so important that we win right now. [30:17] And let me just say, as a Southern Democratic governor, to be able to give voice to Southern [30:22] Democrats being left out, left behind, sometimes looked down on, but scrapping our way back to a [30:27] seat at the table, three Southern Democratic governors, two Southern Democratic senators and [30:32] another one on the way in Roy Cooper. So whether I'm in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, like I am right [30:38] now, I just want to make sure the South has an important place in the Democratic Party. [30:42] All right. Governor Beshear, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. [30:48] Thank you. [30:49] And when we come back, warning signs are emerging for the GOP as they head into the midterms. Our [30:54] panel is next. Welcome back. The panel is here. Garrett Haake, newly named Chief White House [31:07] Correspondent for NBC News. Leanne Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for PUC. Former Democratic [31:14] Congresswoman Val Demings of Florida and Stephen Hayes, CEO and editor of The Dispatch. Welcome [31:21] all. Garrett, congratulations. Thank you very much. Really thrilled for you in this new role. [31:26] Let's start off by talking about your home state of Texas. We love to do it. Yeah. And you heard [31:32] both the former vice president and the governor kind of weigh in on how they see this race unfolding. [31:38] The governor is saying Texas is now in play. Do you think, and based on your conversations, [31:44] could this seat be in jeopardy for Republicans? Look, I think it's going to be a very attractive [31:48] target for Democrats. The path to the majority, you know, starts in Maine and North Carolina for [31:54] Democrats, but then they've got to pick up a win somewhere else. Is it Ohio? Is it Alaska? [31:58] Is it Texas? Texas would be by far the most expensive. It has been one of the reddest states in [32:03] the country. But the elements you would need for it to finally have a Democratic statewide victory, [32:10] some of them are there. An unpopular president, a midterm election, and a candidate who Democrats [32:14] think they can really run against and pull some of those kind of like squishy Republican suburban [32:20] voters who just cannot hold their nose and vote for Ken Paxton. The opportunity is there, [32:24] but it's going to be incredibly expensive. And as I think some of these ads have already shown, [32:28] incredibly nasty. Yeah, so Senator John Cornyn, Leah, now joins this caucus on Capitol Hill, [32:35] referred to as the YOLO caucus, You Only Live Once caucus, or the Wounded Bear Caucus. [32:40] How did Trump's endorsement of Ken Paxton land with those Republicans and Republicans on the Hill broadly? [32:47] Yeah, this one hurt. Senator John Cornyn is a beloved member of that Republican conference. [32:54] He's a former member of leadership. He has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for his fellow [32:59] Republicans. And the fact that Donald Trump endorsed against him, not only because he's more [33:06] ideologically aligned with Ken Paxton and perhaps characteristically aligned with Ken Paxton, [33:11] but also because he was mad at Senate Republicans for not giving him the money for his ballroom. [33:18] And so there was some retribution in that. And so what this does, actually, I've been talking [33:22] to a lot of senators and senior Republican aides, and this actually impacts the rest of their agenda. [33:29] They are not happy. And this, everything could actually be stalled on the Hill because of it. [33:34] Well, the stakes are so significant, Steve Hayes. How do you see this battle playing out [33:39] in Texas? Garrett makes the point. Yep. Democrats are going to be eyeing it. It's still [33:43] very uphill, but just how nervous are Republicans, particularly because they're going to have to [33:48] divert so many resources from battleground stands. I mean, I think that's probably the biggest [33:51] concern of Republicans right now is if you're running in, you know, in Maine, in Nebraska, [33:58] in some of these other states that are likely to be competitive, you're going to see money go to [34:01] Texas to support Ken Paxton, who, as Leanne points out, these Republicans are not excited about. [34:07] I think in addition to the squishy Republicans that Garrett mentions in Texas who might be [34:13] tempted to vote for James Tallarico, there's another big group of Texas Republicans who are [34:18] principled conservatives, and they're not partisans first. They're not Republicans first. [34:22] They believe stuff, and they look at somebody like Ken Paxton, who's a walking scandal, [34:26] and they say, I don't want anything to do with this guy. I don't want to have to support him. [34:30] I don't want to, I'm not going to go to the polls to vote for him. I think that's another group [34:34] that could affect the outcome of the race. Yeah, you could feel the former vice president's [34:37] discomfort in trying to defend him. Val, I want to ask you about another controversial [34:43] candidate for Democrats. You talked about Maine, Graham Plattner. I'm going to just read from my [34:50] notes because I want to get it right. He's faced a series of controversies, including past posts about [34:55] sexual assault, a tattoo that resembled a Nazi symbol that he had covered up right before he ran, [35:01] by the way, and now sexually explicit texts with other women despite being married. Does Graham [35:08] Plattner pose a headache for Democrats? Well, let me go back to Texas for just a moment. [35:14] Cornyn was a beloved candidate, beloved by Republicans in Washington and in Texas. [35:21] I'm not sure that candidate flaws matter as much as they used to. Millions of dollars were spent to [35:30] save Cornyn. Didn't work. Paxton won by a landslide. But the bottom line is, Plattner, [35:37] he's a combat veteran, has served in multiple tours of duty, an oyster farmer. And I believe that sends [35:44] a message to voters that he understands the working class had to go to work every day. I think people [35:50] are so worried about the future right now. They're going to look at, do I feel like this candidate is [35:55] going to fight for me and what I care about? If Maine believes that through all of the controversies [36:02] as we just saw it, Paxton, Plattner will win. This is where people, I think, are so, normal people [36:08] watching this at home are so frustrated with the level of toxic partisanship where you've got somebody [36:13] who's, you know, has to defend, you've got Democrats who are defending Graham Plattner who are calling him [36:18] a good and decent man and arguing that the guy with the Nazi tattoo, we really need him because he has to [36:24] defeat Susan Collins, one of the most bipartisan members of Congress in the past couple decades [36:29] who voted to convict Donald Trump. But it's so important. We have to have Graham Plattner. [36:36] We have to have somebody who's savage military veterans, said that a military veteran who was [36:40] being shot at deserved to die, who's blamed rape victims for their own assaults. And you've now [36:47] got a Democratic Party rallying around somebody like that? [36:50] Paxton is not your model candidate. I mean, let's don't fool ourselves. We could go throughout [36:56] Washington, D.C. right now and find people from the administration, from the Oval Office on down, [37:02] who are not model people. But I think the suffering of the American people has reached a level [37:08] where they're willing to go with the person who they think hears them and sees them. [37:13] Can I put a button on this, though? I do think this conversation is a microcosm of what we're [37:17] going to see going into the fall, where you have Democrats and Republicans who would both be able [37:20] to say, what about the other guy, which has become one of our most popular tropes in political [37:25] discussion. Also, we'll see what happens in November. But I also think this is more evidence [37:29] to the degree which Donald Trump has kind of blown the curb when it comes to scandal, right? The kind [37:33] of things that used to be disqualifying for candidates are now two-day stories. [37:37] Is that the moment that we're in, Leanne, where scandals, as the Congresswoman is saying, [37:42] no longer carry the same weight? Absolutely. I was talking to some partner supporters who said [37:47] exactly that. Well, what about Donald Trump? His voters look the other way. Why can't we look [37:52] the other way? So there is the standard out there that doesn't exist anymore for the bases. But what [37:59] matters is the voters in the middle, the ones, the swing voters, the independent voters who are going [38:04] to decide many of these elections. If I can just say real quickly, that's true of people in [38:09] Washington and people who are in red jerseys or blue jerseys. I didn't say that. I said Ken [38:14] Paxton is a walking scandal. I think it's a problem for a lot of Republicans. It's those people, [38:19] those Republicans and normal Democrats across the country who look at the debate in Washington [38:23] and say, what is this? Why do you have to defend Ken Paxton? Why do you have to defend Graham Plattner? [38:29] Well, great conversation, guys. Stick around. Exactly. We're going to keep the conversation [38:33] going, so don't go anywhere. When we come back, Democrats believe they have their best chance [38:39] in years to win a Texas Senate seat, as we were just discussing. The last Democrat to do it, [38:44] we'll show you. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. Welcome back. Ken Paxton's victory in the Texas [38:57] Republican Senate primary has sparked a question. Can a Democrat win a Texas Senate seat? The last to do [39:05] it was Lloyd Benson in 1988, even as he lost his bid for vice president on the Democratic ticket with [39:12] Michael Dukakis. Benson joined Meet the Press in 1976 while running both for president and for [39:19] Senate re-election. He was asked how he balanced appealing to Texas voters while seeking national [39:25] office. Senator Benson, a story in the New York Times says that you're being accused of trying to be a [39:31] conservative in Texas and a liberal nationally. Just what is your political philosophy? Well, if you [39:38] look at these rating organizations, I think you'll find that I don't wear any of their collars. I have [39:44] not looked at issues and tried to resolve them on some ideological belief. I think people are fed up [39:49] with that. I look at an issue and ask myself three questions. Will it work? Do we need it? Can we [39:57] afford it? If I believe that, I vote for it. And if I believe otherwise, I vote against it. And I think [40:03] that's what the people of Texas want. And I think that's what the people of the nation want. [40:08] When we come back, presidential health is back in the headlines for both Republicans and Democrats. [40:13] More with the panel next. I don't know what happened. I mean, [40:20] when I, as I watched it, I thought, oh my God, he's having a stroke. And it scared me to death. [40:27] Welcome back. The panel is still here. Leanne Boyd, so striking to hear the former first lady talk [40:32] about that disastrous debate performance. There's been a lot of blowback within the Democratic [40:37] Democratic Party. What are you hearing? [40:38] This is exactly not what they wanted to hear about this. [40:41] Or when. [40:42] They didn't. [40:43] They don't want to relive this at all. They are trying to look forward. The Democratic Party has had a [40:48] really tough year. Trump is now finally making their political lives a little bit easier. [40:53] But, you know, they just came off a post-presidential election where donors weren't giving. [40:59] There was no leadership in the party. The DNC is in shambles, which it still is. [41:04] And they are trying to put this party together and look forward to 2026 and then again to 2028. [41:11] And they do not want to be talking about Joe Biden. Joe Biden. [41:14] Congresswoman, what was your reaction to seeing that? [41:17] And what kind of reaction are you hearing amongst your colleagues? [41:20] You know, I didn't know what happened either. [41:22] I was surprised at the timing from the former first lady. But the bottom line is I believe that [41:31] it was something, you know, a lot of people are asking, why would she do it now? I think it was [41:34] something that was very heavy on her heart because of the attention that it received. It involves her [41:40] husband. Just like I think the reason Melania Trump came out about the Epstein files is because it [41:46] was something heavy on her heart that she wanted to talk about. First lady said she didn't know what [41:52] happened. She had never seen that behavior before. She thought he was having a stroke. [41:56] She was scared to death. I believe her. She's not in the situation room with him. [42:02] She's not in cabinet meetings with him. You know, and I think she needed to do this for her own [42:07] satisfaction and to try to move forward. In terms of Democrats, Democrats have got to run their race [42:12] in tough situations regardless of this moment. They need to run their race focusing on the issues in [42:18] their states and in their districts. Move on. Steve, you're shaking your head. [42:21] Yeah, I don't believe her for a second. I think she's lying. And I think if you have a family member [42:26] and you've been through this with somebody, you want to feel sympathy for Jill Biden, but you can't [42:31] anymore because we had had at that point the her report, which was five hours of recordings where [42:36] Joe Biden was relentlessly confused, couldn't remember his when he served as vice president, [42:42] couldn't remember when Beau Biden died again and again and again. And this wasn't a surprise to Jill [42:47] Biden. You had the White House staff revamping its schedule, scheduling the president at certain [42:53] times to accommodate his problems. You had the speech writing team taking entirely different [42:58] approaches to speeches because Joe Biden was so diminished. It's nonsense. And I think the [43:04] problem is it's not just a reminder about Joe Biden. It's a reminder that Democrats broadly, [43:09] the party pulled one of the worst cover ups in American history by pretending that Joe Biden [43:15] was something that he wasn't. I think the first lady is different though. This is not staff. [43:21] This is not, you know, somebody in his cabinet. It is the first lady. And I think it makes a [43:27] difference. Well, Garrett, as we're having this conversation, the president's health is in the [43:31] spotlight about to turn 80 years old. He just had another visit to Walter Reed. What were your takeaways [43:38] from that report that came out? Well, that was interesting. This was his third visit in about [43:42] 13 months, which in and of itself is unusual, though he is a man now about to turn 80 years old. [43:46] The report itself that came out from his physician was mostly fairly innocuous. It said he gained [43:51] about 14 pounds in the last year. Talked about some of the more visible kind of health issues he's [43:56] had, the bruising on his hand, which had attributed to handshaking and his high dose of aspirin, [44:00] which we've kind of known about the swelling in his legs, which this report says have actually gone down. [44:04] I mean, to me, the most interesting thing about this report was that they dropped it in the middle of [44:08] the night going into a weekend. There's nothing in this that's particularly scandalous or even [44:12] particularly interesting. But it shows the degree to which this White House does not want to be [44:16] having this conversation about presidential health. The president likes to present himself as [44:20] this incredibly robust, healthy figure. He loves to brag about the cognitive tests, which this report [44:26] says he took again. But beyond that, they don't want to be talking about anything age or health related [44:31] if they can avoid it. Leanne, you're out on the trail talking to voters. Do voters care about the [44:37] president's health, this president's health or any president's health? How focused are they on that [44:41] issue? Well, with Joe Biden, they absolutely cared. It's a big reason why they didn't elect Kamala [44:48] Harris and why Democrats lost the election. They feel like they were lied to. And I think that [44:55] ultimately, if the president's performance of the job is being impacted, then they absolutely care. [45:03] This president, though, is still extremely active. He is in front of the press every single day. So [45:10] if he is having health problems, he is not showing it to an extent that Biden did. [45:15] Steve, as you know, and Garrett referenced it, there have been the marks on his hands, [45:18] the swelling. The report did address that. But are there conversations inside Republican [45:24] circles? Any concerns about those signs? Yeah, I think there are concerns. I mean, look, [45:28] I think the president in an odd way sort of gets the benefit of the doubt because he's been saying [45:32] sort of crazy things and non-sequiturs for more than a decade. So people hear him do that now and [45:37] they don't say, oh, this is a sign of mental, diminished mental acuity. Having said that, [45:41] it's hard to know what to believe in the report because as Garrett points out, it comes out in the [45:44] middle of the night. They say that his swelling has improved since last year, but last year they said [45:50] there was no swelling. And that they weren't going to treat it, that they weren't going to follow the [45:53] recommendations of the doctor. Yeah. All right, guys. Great conversation. Thank you all so much [45:57] for being here. And finally, this Sunday morning, we are so excited to share some very big news here [46:04] at Meet the Press. Next month, we're bringing Meet the Moment live to New York City, and we would like [46:10] you to be there. On Monday, June 29th, I'll sit down with Academy Award nominated actress, producer, [46:17] and mental health advocate to Raji P. Henson at our venue sponsor, City Winery, for what promises to be a [46:24] candid and inspiring conversation. We will talk about her journey from being a single mom to Hollywood star [46:31] with unforgettable roles in Hustle and Flow and Hidden Figures and the hit series Empire. We'll also discuss her [46:39] work to expand access to mental health care in underserved communities. Tickets are limited, so head to meet the [46:46] press.com now or scan the QR code on your screen. You see it right there to reserve your spot. We do hope [46:54] you will join us. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week [46:59] because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. [47:02] We thank you for watching and remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app [47:38] or watch live on our YouTube channel.