Meet the Press Full Episode — April 12

[0:00] This Sunday, Holding Power, my exclusive interview with Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel [0:08] as the island nation faces pressure from the Trump administration for a change in leadership. [0:14] Do you think it is possible to get a deal with President Trump? [0:18] I think dialogue and deals with the U.S. government are possible, but they're difficult. [0:24] Would you be willing to step down if it meant saving Cuba? [0:28] Plus, no deal. [0:30] The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement. [0:33] Talks between the U.S. and Iran collapse after 21 hours of high-stakes negotiations. [0:40] Where does the conflict go from here? [0:41] And allegations and denials. [0:45] First Lady Melania Trump pushing back against claims linking her to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. [0:51] I am not Epstein's victim. [0:54] As she calls on Congress to hold hearings for Epstein survivors. [0:58] And turmoil in the California governor's race. [1:01] A former staff member accuses Congressman Eric Swalwell of sexual assault. [1:07] These allegations of sexual assault, flat, false. [1:10] As top Democrats urge him to end his gubernatorial campaign. [1:14] My guest this morning, Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida. [1:18] And Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington State. [1:22] Joining me for insight and analysis are Telemundo news anchor Julio Vaccaro. [1:27] Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour. [1:30] Republican strategist Matt Gorman. [1:33] And former Biden White House senior advisor Steve Reschetti. [1:37] Welcome to Sunday, it's Meet the Press. [1:40] From NBC News in Washington. [1:44] The longest running show in television history. [1:47] This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welkin. [1:51] Good Sunday morning. [1:53] We are beginning with a world on edge. [1:55] Where the Trump doctrine of regime change is being tested. [1:59] Vice President J.D. Vance in Pakistan Saturday for meetings with Iranian leaders. [2:04] Overnight announcing no deal had been reached to end the war. [2:07] As the Trump administration works to keep that ceasefire from collapsing. [2:13] But first, a new front in President Donald Trump's pressure campaign. [2:17] After the fall of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro. [2:20] And the killing of Iran's supreme leader. [2:23] President Trump is now warning Cuba could be next. [2:26] This week I traveled to Havana for the first U.S. television interview. [2:31] With Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel. [2:33] It comes as Cuba is locked in an extraordinary standoff. [2:38] After the U.S. imposed an oil embargo in January. [2:42] Deepening the country's humanitarian and economic crisis. [2:45] That the U.S. says started 67 years ago. [2:49] By Cuba's communist government. [2:52] I want to start with President Trump. [2:55] Because President Trump's threats to take over Cuba come. [2:58] As the United States has removed President Maduro from power. [3:02] Has invaded Iran and killed its supreme leader. [3:07] Do you fear you could be killed or arrested by the United States? [3:12] That is a very interesting question. [3:15] Those of us who have leadership positions in the revolution. [3:19] Have a strong commitment to our revolution. [3:21] And to our heroic people. [3:22] And in this connection, our responsibility entails the conviction and the commitment that we're willing to give our lives for the revolution and for the cause that we defend. [3:32] So, for me, that is not a matter of concern. [3:36] If the time comes, I don't think there would be any justification for the United States to launch a military aggression against Cuba. [3:43] Or for the U.S. to undertake a surgical operation or the kidnapping of a president. [3:50] If that happens, there will be fighting and there will be a struggle. [3:53] And we will defend ourselves. [3:55] And if we need to die, we'll die. [3:57] Because as our national anthem says, dying for the homeland is to live. [4:01] What you're saying is very powerful. [4:04] But are you afraid for yourself? [4:06] For your family? [4:08] Or are you prepared to, as you say, make the ultimate sacrifice if you are attacked? [4:16] I have no fear. [4:19] I am willing to give my life for the revolution. [4:21] Of course. [4:22] I wouldn't like that to be the attitude of the U.S. government. [4:27] Is Cuba actively bracing for the possibility of a military attack by the United States? [4:34] Like I've always said in previous meetings and previous interviews, and when I also address [4:46] the Cuban people, it is evident that there are threats out there. [4:50] It is part of the rhetoric of the U.S. government. [4:53] Cuba has done nothing to offend the U.S. [4:56] Cuba has never said about attacking the United States or interfering with the United States [5:01] affairs. [5:02] However, you hear that Cuba is next, that Cuba is going to be next, that there is a way [5:11] out, that they're going to take over Cuba. [5:13] So, from the position of responsibility within the leadership of the country, that is a warning. [5:22] And we need to responsibly protect our people, protect our project, and protect our country. [5:28] So, we are preparing ourselves for defense. [5:30] But what is the concept of our preparation for defense? [5:34] We have a doctrine which is entirely defensive. [5:37] It is not aggressive. [5:38] It doesn't pose a threat. [5:40] In addition, we also believe that as we prepare ourselves to defend, it's the best way to avoid [5:47] war and the best way to preserve peace. [5:49] Let's discuss the situation here in Cuba. [5:53] The people of Cuba are suffering right now. [5:56] Your power grid has failed. [5:58] Food and energy are running dangerously low. [6:01] And these problems existed in some form before the blockade was put into effect. [6:06] Do you take any responsibility for the pain Cubans are experiencing? [6:13] Ustedes, el presidente, ¿no se siente responsable? [6:16] A ver, el pueblo cubano está sufriendo. [6:19] The Cuban people is suffering. [6:20] And this can be seen in two areas, in the national aspect and also at the family level, because [6:29] everything takes place on a daily basis. [6:31] But what is the main cause for that suffering? [6:34] Has it been the mistakes that I myself have made? [6:39] Or like I said, a collective leadership, or is that suffering, or the government, or is that [6:45] suffering, is the result of the policy of intensified blockade that the United States [6:52] have maintained? [6:54] I think that the people can provide that answer. [6:56] So these are a number of restrictions which are not applied to any other country in the [7:00] world. [7:00] Therefore, we lack financing in order to buy food, to buy supplies for our main productions [7:07] and services in order to have the medicines that we need and to carry out the repairs that [7:14] we need for our national energy system and our industrial factories. [7:22] How does that reflect on our people now? [7:24] And yet the people of Cuba say you cannot solely blame the United States because you can trade [7:31] with other countries. [7:32] The economy has been in decline for the past 10 years. [7:35] Hundreds of thousands of people have left Cuba over the past decade, many of them who are [7:41] young entrepreneurs. [7:44] Is that a sign that the Cuban economy and government has failed the people of Cuba? [7:50] Like I said, when you see that at the family level, how does that happen? [7:58] There is a scarcity of food, a scarcity of medicine. [8:04] The nights become a very long working nights when you've been 20 hours with a power outage. [8:11] But this is before the blockade. [8:14] That's when you need to do it. [8:14] People were suffering before the blockade. [8:17] Now, let me explain. [8:18] Let me explain. [8:19] There's a confusion in terms of the approach. [8:21] For example, we were living under the blockade conditions, but the blockade was intensified [8:27] and further tightened and became qualitatively different in the second half of 2019 with [8:33] implementation of 240 measures and with Cuba's inclusion in the list of countries who supposedly [8:38] sponsored terrorism. [8:40] So everything became worsened. [8:43] So we have the accumulated effects of the blockade plus the effect of the tightening of the blockade. [8:49] And now the effects are caused by this energy blockade. [8:57] And I can say this responsibly to you. [8:59] This is not the fault of the Cuban government. [9:01] We saw it with our own eyes. [9:03] Los vimos con nuestros ojos. [9:07] People living in severe poverty, sufriendo in the streets of Havana, the capital city. [9:13] Is it time for Cuba to take some responsibility, to look in the mirror and to change its economic [9:22] system for the people of Cuba who are suffering here? [9:25] ¿Qué están sufriendo? [9:26] Nosotros siempre hacemos análisis muy autocríticos. [9:30] We conduct very self-critical analysis and assessment of our reality, and we're trying [9:35] to constantly transform and change what we do in order to improve what we do. [9:42] But that's got nothing to do with the political system. [9:44] It is not our political system that is embracing that inability to move forward. [9:51] Our political system is serving people, is serving social justice and making everyone [9:57] advance. [9:58] And it seems that it bothers other people around the world because of what it represents, [10:02] because it is our system for ourselves, not that we want to impose our system on anyone [10:07] else. [10:08] And they try to block it like this. [10:09] We understand that there are conversations between Cuba and the United States. [10:14] Do you think it is possible to get a deal with President Trump? [10:18] I think we can have an approach in terms of what is possible and what is difficult. [10:26] I think dialogue and deals with the U.S. government are possible, but they're difficult. [10:32] Cuba has always stood by its commitments, and the United States have not fulfilled its part [10:38] of the deal. [10:39] In the present, the U.S. has been engaged in talks with other countries, and while these [10:46] negotiations are not underway, they have attacked those countries. [10:49] And all of this creates a lot of distrust. [10:52] And we know that inside the United States, there are forces that whenever they see that [10:57] there's a possibility to engage in discussions, to engage in a dialogue, they try to undercut [11:02] and boycott those talks. [11:05] Are you talking directly to Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and do you trust him? [11:13] We have engaged in talks, and we will be in talks as long as the United States agrees to [11:20] with the U.S. representative that they decide in order to have this relationship with us. [11:29] But these talks are very complex processes. [11:36] First, you have to establish a channel for dialogue. [11:39] Then you need to build an agenda for the discussions. [11:45] Have you spoken to Secretary Rubio? [11:48] Yes. [11:50] I haven't spoken to Secretary Rubio. [11:53] I don't know him. [11:55] Let's talk about some of the key demands the United States has. [11:58] It includes releasing political prisoners, scheduling multi-party elections, and recognizing [12:04] unions in a free press. [12:06] Are you willing to commit to any of those conditions that the United States has laid out? [12:11] Bueno, en estos momentos no hay ninguna, nadie nos ha demandado esa... [12:17] No, nobody has made those, nobody has made those demands to us. [12:24] And we have established that respect to our political system or constitutional order are [12:30] issues that are not under negotiations with the United States. [12:33] And we need to overcome, Kirsten. [12:36] So let me, they're giving me the hard rap. [12:38] So let me, let me get these questions out. [12:41] There are still more than 1,200 political prisoners, including one of the most high-profile [12:45] political prisoners, Cuban rapper, Michael Osorbo, who's been in prison since 2021 for [12:52] writing a protest song that won two Latin Grammys. [12:56] Will you commit to releasing him and the other political prisoners? [13:05] That's another issue in which you can see all of these bias and all these prejudices. [13:09] They speak about political prisoners in Cuba. [13:11] Now, like you said, when the people is going through a very difficult situation, there are [13:16] people in Cuba who are not in favor of the revolution. [13:18] There are people who do not support the revolution. [13:22] And they manifest themselves on a daily basis against the revolution. [13:26] And they're not in prison. [13:30] This narrative that has been created, that image that anyone who speaks against a revolution [13:36] is thrown into jail, that's a big lie. [13:39] That's a slander, and that's part of that construct in order to vilify and to engage a [13:50] character assassination of the Cuban revolution. [13:52] Would you be willing to step down if it meant saving Cuba? [13:56] ¿Está dispuesto a dimitir con tal de salvar a Cuba, para la gente de Cuba? [14:02] A ver, ¿tú que eres una periodista? [14:04] You are a very important and recognized journalist. [14:10] Have you ever asked that question to any other president in the world? [14:13] Because it's one of the conditions the United States is asking for. [14:17] Would you ever consider that? [14:20] Let me explain. [14:21] Have you asked that question to any other president in the world? [14:24] Have you asked that question to any other president in the world? [14:26] Could you ask that question to Trump? [14:29] I have very hard questions of President Trump. [14:35] Is that a question from you, or is that coming from the State Department of the U.S. government? [14:39] My question is, because it's one of the things that we've heard the U.S. government talk about, [14:44] that they want political change here in Cuba. [14:46] So my question is for you. [14:48] If they asked you, if they said this is one condition, would you say that? [14:51] Because of your honesty, I'm going to assume that you're asking that question because of those reasons. [14:58] In Cuba, the people who are in leadership position is not elected by the U.S. government, [15:07] and they don't have a mandate from the U.S. government. [15:09] We have a free sovereign state, a free state. [15:12] We have self-determination and independence, [15:15] and we are not subjected to the designs of the United States. [15:21] On the other hand, Cuban leaders are not here representing an elite of power. [15:30] You can see my background, where I was born, my family, what I've done throughout my life. [15:35] We are elected by the people, although there's a narrative trying to disregard that. [15:39] Any one of us, before we become part of a leadership role, [15:44] we need to be elected at the grassroots level in an electoral district by thousands of Cubans. [15:48] And then those who represent the Cubans at the National Assembly of the People's Power [15:53] elect those leadership positions and those offices like it happens in many other countries around the world. [16:00] So we have an election system on the basis of people's participation. [16:04] So whenever we take this responsibility position and this leadership position, [16:09] it's not out of our personal ambition or corporate ambition or even a party ambition. [16:17] We do that as a mandate by the people. [16:20] And the concept of revolutionaries giving up and stepping down is not part of our vocabulary. [16:27] If the Cuban people understand that I am not fit for office, that I have no reason to the occasion, [16:36] then I should not be holding this position of president, I will respond to them. [16:43] But you need to realize that you should not focus only on the president of the country [16:51] because we have a collegiate leadership, which is very closely linked to the people. [16:55] But it's not the United States that can impose anything on us. [16:59] And you can watch my full interview with President Diaz-Canel on meetthepress.com. [17:06] When we come back, Republican Congressman Byron Donalds joins me next. [17:10] Welcome back. And joining me now is Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida. [17:25] Congressman Donalds, welcome back to Meet the Press. [17:29] Good to be back with you. Good morning. [17:31] It's wonderful to have you back. We are, of course, going to get to Iran in just a moment. [17:35] But I want to first get your reaction to what you heard from the leader of Cuba. [17:41] You have called the Cuban regime a state sponsor of terrorism that, quote, has to go. [17:47] You just heard my conversation. [17:49] Do you think that President Diaz-Canel is someone who the Trump administration can, in fact, make a deal with? [17:56] Or do you think there needs to be a wholesale change in leadership in Cuba? [18:02] I believe there needs to be full-scale regime change in Cuba. [18:05] What you just heard was a dictator who wants to have the same deal as the Castro brothers, [18:12] that he wants to be able to rule Cuba with an iron fist and die in office. [18:16] That's what it sounds. That's what it sounded to me. [18:18] I think what the American people need to understand is that Cuba, for 67 years, has been a communist dictatorship. [18:26] They have suppressed the free speech of the Cuban people. [18:28] The Cuban people today are rationing food. [18:30] You talked about their power grid. [18:32] Their economy is flat on their back. [18:34] And I think what Diaz-Canel was saying about how they don't have to be any changes for Cuba to be better is a lie. [18:41] If you examine the history of governments around the world, free and open societies like America, [18:48] that is where the people actually thrive and succeed and excel. [18:53] In communist dictatorships or theocratic dictatorships where you suppress free speech, [18:58] you actually don't hold open elections. [19:00] You take away property. [19:02] You take away property rights. [19:04] What you find is that people do not thrive. [19:06] They do not excel. [19:07] They cannot build wealth. [19:09] They can't build strong families. [19:10] In essence, they can't have the American dream or that dream in any other part of the world. [19:16] It starts with your political system. [19:19] And you have a dictator who wants to remain installed as opposed to letting the people of Cuba live free. [19:24] You heard President Diaz-Canel say that he is willing to die for his country. [19:31] Let me ask you, Congressman, would you, in fact, support military action in Cuba if that were the way to lead to regime change? [19:42] I'm not going to stand and step in front of what the president and any decisions that he or Secretary Rubio are going to make on this front. [19:48] But I think it's important for everybody to listen to his words. [19:51] He would rather continue to suppress the people of Cuba to the point where they have to ration food, [19:57] to the point where political opposition is jailed, where there is no free press, no ability to communicate. [20:03] And he believes that that's worth dying for. [20:06] I think that says all that needs to be said. [20:09] I want to turn to the other major foreign policy issue, Iran, of course, front and center. [20:15] On Saturday, Vice President J.D. Vance held talks with the Iranians in Pakistan but announced that no deal had been reached. [20:23] This morning, really just moments ago, Congressman President Trump posted on social media. [20:28] I'll read you part of his post. [20:30] He says, quote, [20:31] How does blocking the Strait of Hormuz reopen it, which is what President Trump has said he wants to see happen? [20:52] Well, first, Kristen, let's establish something. [20:53] Our Navy, its creation was actually to free international waters from the Barbary pirates. [21:00] That's why we have a U.S. Navy. [21:01] That's its creation and the history behind it. [21:04] The president is trying to make the next strategic decision, in my view, [21:08] which allows for them to have control over the Straits and establish that control. [21:12] I think in the president's comments, he also said that our men and women would go through the process [21:15] of trying to find these mines that the Iranians dropped into the Strait of Hormuz [21:20] and to decommission those mines and get them out of the way [21:23] so that you could have an orderly return to the Strait of Hormuz being open. [21:27] Last thing on this, be very clear. [21:29] The Iranians have always been using the Straits as economic terrorism against the West [21:35] to protect their theocratic regime. [21:37] I mean, we started with Cuba. [21:38] Now we're on Iran. [21:39] What is the consistency here? [21:41] You have dictatorships that threaten their people, that suppress speech, that jail political prisoners. [21:48] Obviously, in Iran, we know there are no respect for human rights or for women's rights [21:53] or for the rights of people who dissent. [21:55] They just killed 40,000 people in the streets of Tehran, this regime. [21:59] So the president is doing what's necessary to accomplish the main objectives here. [22:03] And that has remained to make sure that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon [22:07] and to significantly degrade their ballistic missiles capabilities. [22:11] The Iranians using the Strait of Hormuz against the rest of the world, [22:15] the president, I believe, is doing the right thing, trying to control the straits, [22:18] possibly in order to open that up for international water so you can have trade move freely, [22:22] not just in that region, but for the rest of the world. [22:25] Let me drill down with you on the point that you raise about potential nuclear weapons. [22:30] President Trump said last week that Iran's stockpile of highly enriched uranium is, quote, [22:35] so far underground, I don't care about that. [22:39] From your perspective, Congressman, does any deal to end this war [22:43] have to address Iran's nuclear program and effectively dismantle it? [22:51] I believe so. [22:52] I think that's the core mission that the president has been talking about for quite some time. [22:56] And it's not just over the last 40 days that we've been dealing with this. [22:59] The president has been speaking about this for years. [23:02] Number two, and for the American people, again, please understand, [23:06] what the president is having to do now is to fix the foreign policy mess of several presidents [23:11] when it's come to Iran. [23:13] In his first term as president, through his sanctions, [23:16] he had the Iranian government flat on their back. [23:19] Joe Biden comes in, undoes all that. [23:22] The Iranians were able to reconstitute their economy and, as a result, [23:25] begin the enrichment process again. [23:27] So the president is trying to use every lever possible [23:30] in order to bring this situation under control once and for all. [23:34] A nuclear Iran is just simply unacceptable, [23:37] because that is a theocratic regime who is hell-bent on global jihad. [23:41] They are hell-bent on spreading terror around the globe. [23:45] That's been their modus operandi for 47 years. [23:47] Congressman, I want to move to some domestic issues now. [23:51] Major headline this week, the first lady, Melania Trump, [23:54] put Jeffrey Epstein back in the headlines when she made a surprise announcement [23:58] denying ties to the convicted sex offender. [24:01] You're a member of the House Oversight Committee, [24:04] which was scheduled to hear from former Attorney General Pam Bondi [24:07] this coming Tuesday about her handling of the Epstein files. [24:11] The Justice Department says Bondi's ouster excuses her from having to appear. [24:17] Do you think Pam Bondi should testify this week? [24:22] Look, I don't, actually, at this point, I don't really think so. [24:25] Now that she's a former Attorney General of the United States. [24:27] Well, Hillary Clinton, hold on, Hillary Clinton was in an office and she testified. [24:31] Well, let me be, let me be very clear. [24:33] We're going to be continuing with our investigations into this matter. [24:36] The Oversight Committee has been steadfastly working on this, [24:39] also with survivors who chose to come forward to bring more information. [24:43] I think if a former AG Bondi comes in, [24:46] that'll be a determination of the committee as a whole. [24:49] Let me also say that the now former Attorney General, [24:52] she did come into the committee in a session to have open conversation and dialogue [24:56] with Republican and Democrat members. [24:59] Republican members came, hold on, let me explain this. [25:01] This is important. [25:02] Republican members came to that committee hearing [25:05] asking the attorney, the former Attorney General Bondi, important questions. [25:09] The Democrats refused to ask her any questions [25:12] because they wanted the cameras on, [25:14] because they wanted to turn it into a political circus. [25:17] And I was in that room and disgusted, quite frankly, [25:20] because you had members on the Democrats' side of the aisle [25:23] who had ample ability to question former AG Bondi, [25:27] and they refused because the cameras weren't on. [25:30] Congressman, we're almost out of time, [25:31] and I have two more questions for you. [25:33] You actually voted to hold Bill and Hillary Clinton in criminal contempt [25:36] earlier this year for failing to comply with a subpoena. [25:39] Why shouldn't the same standard apply to the former Attorney General, Pam Bondi? [25:45] Well, like I said, we'll see what happens when we get back to D.C. [25:48] If the committee still wants the former AG to come in, [25:51] then I'm quite sure Pam Bondi will come in, [25:53] and you won't even get down that road. [25:55] What happened with Bill and Hillary is that we had a bipartisan subpoena [25:59] for them to come in, and the Clintons basically ignored the subpoena. [26:04] So we had to move towards criminal contempt proceedings [26:07] because Bill and Hillary were trying to negotiate their way [26:10] out of actually coming in and answering questions. [26:13] All right, final question. [26:15] I want to ask you about Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California, [26:18] who's facing allegations of sexual assault and misconduct [26:22] from former members of his staff, allegations he denies. [26:25] One House Republican has filed a motion to expel Mr. Swalwell from Congress. [26:31] On the other side, Democrats say they're going to respond with a motion [26:34] to expel Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez of Texas, [26:37] who's being investigated for allegations of sexual misconduct. [26:41] Will you vote to expel Congressman Swalwell, [26:43] and will you vote to expel Congressman Gonzalez? [26:48] That vote comes to the floor. [26:50] I will be voting yes on both measures. [26:52] These allegations are despicable, and they demean the integrity of Congress. [26:58] These things are just completely unacceptable, and as far as I'm concerned, [27:01] both gentlemen need to go home. [27:03] All right. [27:04] Congressman Donald, thank you so much for being here on a jam-packed morning. [27:07] We really appreciate it. [27:10] Thank you. [27:11] When we come back, Democratic Congressman Pramila Jayapal joins me next. [27:23] Welcome back. [27:24] And joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington. [27:28] Congresswoman Jayapal, welcome back to Meet the Press. [27:34] Thank you so much, Kristen. [27:35] It's great to be with you. [27:36] It's great to have you back. [27:38] I do want to start on Cuba. [27:40] You actually just came back from a five-day congressional delegation in Cuba, [27:45] where you did meet with President Diaz-Canal. [27:48] You heard him say in the interview that he effectively would not commit to the broad asks [27:54] of the United States, including releasing political prisoners, committing to holding [27:59] multi-party elections. [28:00] Do you think Cuba needs to take those steps in order to move toward normalization with [28:07] the United States? [28:11] Kristen, I think what is really important and what he said to us and what I heard him [28:15] saying this morning as well on the interview is that there need to be real negotiations. [28:21] And that has been a frustration for Cuba, that there hasn't been a real negotiation with [28:26] agenda items on the table for the United States and for Cuba. [28:30] And I think there is a real desire for, appropriate desire for America to respect Cuba's sovereignty. [28:39] The embargo is the longest running embargo against any country in world history. [28:46] The fuel blockade is just the latest part of that. [28:49] But the humanitarian crisis on the ground and the collective punishment and cruelty [28:53] towards the Cuban people, civilians, by the United States foreign policy is really outrageous. [29:01] And I feel from my visit to Cuba that Americans would not want that to continue if they understood [29:08] what was actually happening on the ground. [29:10] And so that's why we were there for five days, to hear from all sides. [29:14] We met with political dissidents. [29:16] We met with the president, as you mentioned. [29:18] We met with civil society organizations, religious leaders, entrepreneurs, people who see the [29:24] opportunity for a real normalization of relations between the United States and Cuba. [29:30] Well, and Congresswoman, I wonder if you met with the political prisoners. [29:34] There's still more than 1,200 of them. [29:37] And in my conversation with President Diaz-Canel, he would not commit to releasing any of them. [29:43] You have obviously talked about this. [29:46] You just said you met with a number of people. [29:48] Do you believe Cuba needs to release its 1,200 political prisoners in order for negotiations [29:54] to move forward effectively? [29:59] I do. [30:00] And this has been something that I've raised directly with the president, both this time [30:04] and two years ago when I was in Cuba. [30:07] I think that was the last time there were any members of Congress there. [30:10] I think I've been the last person to visit Cuba twice in the last two years. [30:15] Last time I actually met with the families of political prisoners, we took a list in to [30:20] the president. [30:21] And I think that what I have heard from the Cuban government is let's put all these items on [30:28] the table. [30:29] He did just announce that they were releasing 2,000 prisoners. [30:33] Not all of those are political prisoners, but we understand that some of them are. [30:37] And I think that this is the kind of thing that we should push for in an actual country [30:43] to country negotiation. [30:45] Not a dialogue, but a negotiation with actual items on the agenda. [30:50] That's how we're going to move forward is through that kind of diplomacy, not through, [30:54] you know, an economic bombing of the infrastructure of Cuba that hurts just everyday civilians and [31:03] inflicts a level of cruelty onto the Cuban people. [31:07] Yeah, no, you're right. [31:07] There's a lot of skepticism about whether any of those 2,000 were political prisoners at all. [31:13] Very quickly, do you believe President Diaz-Canal is the best person to lead Cuba? [31:17] Or do you agree with the Trump administration that there needs to be an overhaul in Cuban leadership? [31:25] I don't think it is for the United States to determine who leads another country. [31:30] I don't think we would like that here in the United States, and I don't think that it's [31:34] appropriate for us to dismiss the sovereignty of civilians in other countries to choose their [31:41] leaders. [31:42] And so I think the way we get to a true democratic future for Cuba with dignity and freedom is [31:48] by those negotiations and ultimately by the ability for the Cuban people to thrive [31:54] and for freedom to reign across Cuba, that's not through blockading a drop of oil from reaching [32:03] an island, through bombing the economic infrastructure of the island, and through maximalist foreign [32:09] policy pressures threatening military intervention. [32:12] It's through negotiation and diplomacy. [32:15] That's how we get there. [32:16] Congresswoman, let's talk about Iran now. [32:18] As you know, Vice President J.D. Vance announcing no deal after marathon talks with Iran. [32:24] In Pakistan, do you support these negotiations as a way to bring an end to this war? [32:30] Do you think that is the best way to bring an end to it? [32:36] I do, Kristen, absolutely support negotiations. [32:40] Let's remember that it was Donald Trump who took us out of and negotiated nuclear arms deal [32:47] with Iran that was negotiated by President Obama in 2015. [32:52] Donald Trump removed us from that in 2018. [32:54] And that is what has led us to the place that we're in. [32:58] Those negotiations took over two years. [33:01] I don't think that in this situation that we were necessarily going to get to an agreement [33:06] again with a day of negotiations. [33:09] I'm, you know, I feel good that perhaps there's still a path for these negotiations. [33:15] But we should be clear, Donald Trump got us into this mess. [33:18] He went into a war with Iran that was unauthorized and illegal. [33:24] And because of that, we are in the mess that we're in now. [33:27] There was no strategy, no plan, no authorization. [33:30] We have, we are now spending about one to two billion dollars a day on this war with Iran. [33:36] And it is a huge cost for the American people with rising energy prices, but also a lack [33:42] of focus on the domestic issues that really drive people's lives. [33:47] He's saying we don't have money for child care. [33:49] We don't have money for housing because we're at war with Iran. [33:52] That was a war of choice. [33:54] That is a war of choice. [33:55] And we should never have been in this position to start with. [33:58] This is an absolute outrage that this is what the Trump administration has gotten us into. [34:03] And I don't think it's good for the people of the United States or for the civilians in [34:09] Iran, in Lebanon, across the Middle East. [34:12] I do want to ask you about your colleague, Congressman Eric Swalwell. [34:15] You heard me discussing this with Congressman Donald. [34:18] He's facing allegations of sexual assault from a former staff member, which we should say [34:24] Swalwell says are completely false and politically motivated. [34:28] Notable, though, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Senator Adam Schiff, Congresswoman [34:32] Nancy Pelosi are calling for Swalwell to end his run for California governor. [34:38] Do you think that Swalwell should drop out of the gubernatorial race? [34:45] I absolutely do. [34:47] This is, as you know, I've been very vocal on behalf of survivors of the Epstein scandal. [34:54] And I think that what we are seeing now is an emergence of women across the country who [35:03] have been dismissed, told to shut up, told to move on, who have been abused by men in [35:09] powerful positions. [35:10] This is not a partisan issue. [35:12] This cuts across party line. [35:14] And it is a depravity of the way that women have been treated. [35:18] And I'm just inspired by the courage and the bravery of the women who came forward. [35:24] This is clearly a pattern. [35:25] I've already called for Congressman Swalwell to drop out of the gubernatorial race. [35:30] And I think we have to hold everybody accountable. [35:33] Do you think you just heard Congressman Donald say he would vote to expel Eric Swalwell? [35:38] Will you vote to expel Eric Swalwell? [35:44] And Congressman Gonzalez? [35:46] I would. [35:47] I've already said that I think that these things, these charges and allegations and the [35:54] pattern of abuse. [35:55] And in Congressman Gonzalez's case, he actually admitted to the affair with the or to, you [36:01] know, harassment with his staffer. [36:06] This is also important for staffers across the Capitol to see that their bosses don't get [36:11] to do this to them. [36:12] So I do think that both of them need to step down from Congress, let these investigations [36:19] happen, you know. [36:21] But I think that this is very important, that we believe women and that we show people across [36:28] the Capitol and across the country that we will not accept this kind of behavior. [36:33] Very quickly, before I let you go, former Vice President Kamala Harris joined several other [36:38] Democratic leaders at the Al Sharpton Convention this week. [36:42] She was asked a question about whether she was going to run again in 2028. [36:46] She said, quote, I'm thinking about it. [36:48] Do you think former Vice President Kamala Harris should run for president again in 2028? [36:53] Is she the strongest person to represent Democrats? [36:59] I think we should have a big contested primary. [37:02] And everyone that thinks that they have an opportunity to really represent and show leadership [37:08] for this country as president should run and should make their case. [37:12] And the people should look very carefully at every single candidate. [37:16] But it should be a happy, big, you know, exciting attempt for us to be able to really [37:25] see who has what it takes to lead our party forward. [37:28] That's what we need, bold leadership. [37:31] And I'm looking forward to a primary that demonstrates that from lots of candidates. [37:35] All right. [37:35] Well, it's only 2026, but in some ways it's right around the corner. [37:38] Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you so much for being here this Sunday. [37:41] We really appreciate it. [37:42] When we come back, the last Cuban leader to appear on this program 67 years ago this month. [37:49] Our Meet the Press Minute is next. [37:56] Welcome back. [37:57] The last Cuban leader to appear on this broadcast was Fidel Castro, 67 years ago this month. [38:05] He had just seized power in Cuba after overthrowing U.S.-backed strongman Fulgencio Batista. [38:12] Castro was asked a question that would define his revolution, whether he sided more with communism [38:18] or democracy. [38:19] I am not communism. [38:22] I am not agreeing with communism. [38:24] My acts prove free press in Cuba. [38:29] There is no doubt for me between democracy and communism. [38:34] But not only democracy as a world. [38:38] That is why we call our ideals humanism. [38:42] Because we not only want to give freedoms to the people, but to give them the way of getting [38:49] their life to eat, to live, not only theoretical words. [38:53] And when we come back, former Vice President Kamala Harris says she's thinking about running [38:59] for president again. [39:01] The panel is next. [39:09] Welcome back. [39:10] The panel is here. [39:11] Anchor of Noticias Telemundo, Julio Vaquero. [39:15] Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour. [39:18] Steve Fischetti, former advisor to President Biden. [39:21] And Matt Gorman, Republican strategist and our newest NBC News contributor. [39:26] Welcome to all of you, Matt. [39:28] Congratulations. [39:28] Thank you so much. [39:29] Steve, welcome. [39:30] Great to have you here on the panel. [39:33] Thank you all for being here on a big Sunday. [39:34] Julio, I want to start with you and what we heard from the Cuban president. [39:38] I was struck by a couple of things. [39:40] His defiance and the fact that he didn't commit to making any changes to holding multi-party [39:47] elections, to releasing political prisoners, which is one of the top issues. [39:51] What were your takeaways? [39:52] Totally. [39:53] He was very defiant. [39:54] But I wasn't surprised by that, to be honest, because that has been the Cuban government's [39:58] position since the beginning of the Cuban revolution. [40:01] What is he going to say? [40:02] Of course, he's going to say he's not going anywhere. [40:04] But Nicolás Maduro was saying the same thing. [40:07] And he's now in New York. [40:09] So what I was surprised by is by him, the fact that he said that he's not in conversations [40:14] with Secretary Marco Rubio, because we do know for a fact that those conversations are [40:18] taking place. [40:19] It's been reported that they've been talking to the Castro family, specifically Raúl Castro's [40:25] grandson. [40:27] So the fact that Miguel Diaz-Canel is not in those conversations puts him in a very vulnerable [40:32] position. [40:33] I've spoken to people who are close to the Cuban government, people who are against the Cuban [40:38] government, people in the island, and they all agree on one point. [40:41] Removing the Escanel would only be a symbolic change, not a real transformation. [40:45] And transformation is really needed. [40:47] Because at the end, this is a moral issue. [40:50] In the middle of everything, you have the Cuban people on the one side with an American government [40:55] putting a lot of pressure because they decided they want change. [40:59] A Cuban government that's been unable to create a sustainable economy. [41:02] And the question is, for how long can you squeeze this population before anything changes? [41:08] Yeah, just being there on the ground, the despair in the eyes of the people there. [41:12] And you're right, because what we hear from Marco Rubio is a call for wholesale change. [41:17] Amna, let me turn to you, because another point that he makes was about these negotiations, [41:21] that there's a lack of trust because they saw negotiations with Venezuela, with Iran, [41:26] and then all of a sudden the bombing started. [41:29] And here we have Vice President J.D. Vance saying we didn't get a deal and effectively [41:36] saying there wasn't that trust that was formed. [41:38] How do you think Cuba is watching what's happening in Iran right now? [41:41] I mean, clearly they're watching very carefully, right? [41:44] President Diaz-Canel made that clear to you. [41:45] And there are historical parallels. [41:48] These are nations with 50-, 60-, 70-year regimes that pay very close attention to history, right? [41:52] These are both nations where President Trump left deals that his predecessor brokered previously [41:58] and has been unable to make new deals, even while ramping up pressure on both Iran and [42:03] on Cuba, war being launched in Iran as well. [42:06] The other parallel is, of course, as you mentioned, is what the even Iranian foreign minister mentioned [42:10] to me days after the war there was started, which was it was a bitter experience talking [42:14] to the Americans, multiple rounds of talks that led nowhere, and then the U.S. and Israel [42:18] launched their attacks. [42:19] And that word mistrust was one we heard from the Iranian negotiators just after this last [42:24] round of talks failed as well. [42:26] But to understand Iran and Cuba, I think you have to understand Venezuela, as Julio mentioned, [42:31] which is the president believed a limited special forces strike there to remove Maduro in a matter [42:36] of days could be reiterated in other places. [42:39] And Iran has proven that is not true. [42:41] We hear from President Diaz-Canel saying Cuba is not Iran and it's not Venezuela. [42:45] Yeah, absolutely. [42:46] Absolutely. And let's talk about the implications of all of this politically, Matt, because here [42:51] is Vice President J.D. Vance leading these talks to try to bring the war to an end. [42:55] What are the potential implications for any political aspirations he may have beyond being [43:01] vice president in 2028? [43:03] Sure. I mean, you talk to his people. [43:04] Top job. [43:04] Well, yeah, you talk to his people and it's not a fait accompli that he runs in 2028. [43:08] It's likely, certainly, but it's not this automatic thing. [43:11] What they've also said, and they've said this since he got elected, that the best way to position [43:15] himself for 2028 is to do the job he was elected to well. [43:20] There are no shortcuts in that. [43:21] I thought it was notable, even though they might have disagreed privately, Trump and Vance on [43:25] Iran, according to reports, it was a vote of confidence and a sign of trust to send him [43:29] over there on behalf of Trump and the government to handle these negotiations. [43:34] And I think you contrast that a little bit with who he could be running against in 2028. [43:38] Kamala Harris, she was given a broad portfolio for a president who didn't exactly trust her. [43:43] She couldn't define the portfolio. [43:45] She didn't execute on it. [43:46] And it became a liability. [43:47] Those Vance folks are very aware of that comparison. [43:50] OK, you take me perfectly to my question for Steve. [43:52] Steve, this is what Vice President Kamala Harris had to say about potentially running in 2028 this [43:57] week. [43:57] Are you going to run again in 2028? [44:00] Listen, I might. [44:01] I might. [44:02] I'm thinking about it. [44:04] Steve, historically speaking, can candidates who've suffered a loss like she lost in 2024 [44:09] have a comeback? [44:11] The answer is yes. [44:12] And I know she is seriously thinking about this. [44:16] I am certain that she's looking at it. [44:19] But I think we can take her at her word that she hasn't made up her mind officially or [44:25] finally yet. [44:25] But I'm sure she's taking a look at it. [44:27] And she should. [44:28] And she'd be a very strong contender if she decides to run. [44:31] I will say this. [44:33] And I noticed at the National Action Network that there were another eight or ten potential [44:39] Democratic presidential candidates who also were interviewed by Reverend Sharpton. [44:43] And so many of them appeared. [44:45] And I think every one of the potential candidates is laser focused, really, for the next six [44:52] months on the midterm elections and Democrats winning back control in the House and Senate. [44:58] When we ran in 2019, when President Biden ran in 2019, there were 24 candidates by June of 2019. [45:07] So I expect a very large field for the Democratic primary and for the race. [45:14] But again, there's there's a lot of work to be done between now and the midterms. [45:19] And that's where the focus is going to be first. [45:21] Well, Matt, how do you think Republicans are viewing this answer by the vice president in [45:25] the very crowded field that's gearing up? [45:27] Unabashed delight. [45:28] I mean, we would love nothing more than to run again against Kamala Harris. [45:32] And that was also the strategy among vans, too. [45:35] If you remember the debate, he was not running against Tim Walls on the other podium. [45:38] He was running against Kamala Harris. [45:40] He was very smart in that. [45:41] Julio, do you think that there's an appetite for for this type of a comeback? [45:46] I don't know. [45:47] It's a hard one. [45:48] I think we'll have to wait and see. [45:49] It's still too early, two years before 2028. [45:53] I will say this. [45:54] I talked to James Talarico this week, and he's been able to make a lot of noise in Texas. [45:58] He was very open about the mistakes that Democrats made in 2024 and how they took many voters [46:05] for granted, specifically Latino voters, which I asked him about. [46:09] And I mean, whoever runs, if it's vice president Harris or whoever it is, they will have a lot [46:14] of work to do to regain those voters. [46:16] Amna, the work begins in the midterms, but Julio's right. [46:19] That's going to be the key question. [46:21] A hundred percent. [46:22] And affordability and the economy remain the top issue for voters year after year after [46:26] year. [46:26] We know which way that's trending. [46:28] But also, let's get through the midterms first. [46:30] Steve, how are Democrats feeling heading into the midterms? [46:34] How bullish, particularly when you have what's happening with Congressman Swalwell sort of [46:38] overshadowing? [46:38] I do think that Democrats are very positive about the potential for winning back the House [46:45] and the Senate right now. [46:47] And obviously, there was inflation data that was presented this week at, I think, 3.4 percent [46:54] rise in the cost of living. [46:56] And I think exactly what you said is going to be the focus of the midterm election. [47:01] All right, guys, fantastic conversation. [47:03] Thank you so very much. [47:05] Thank you for a great panel discussion. [47:06] That is all for today. [47:08] Thank you for watching. [47:09] We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. [47:12] We thank you for watching. [47:32] And remember, stay updated on breaking news and top stories on the NBC News app or watch [47:37] live on our YouTube channel.